Jackson Pollock on John Cage

[maogwanshi]

Check out the array of interesting comments. One contends that Cage

actually didn't like Pollock @cpkelley. Another maintains that this

music was actually written by Morton Feldman @pdclift. Whatever.

The piece illustrates the respective experimental styles of Cage/Pollock.

[OnASplendidRoute]

fractals-created by "the liberation" of inner.

[Jusstfnsk8]

Check out my John Cage tribute video "The Probability of Chance" by jusstfnsk8

[composerpoet]

Saw a work called Lavender Mist. Could not easily leave it; mesmerizing and lovely counterpoint as if seeing the interior of a clouds meaning or viewing the soul of J S Bach.

[bacofishtaco]

I hated Pollack! Till I saw his painting at the Philly Museum of Art. I thought "That's not art!" I was fascinated by the way the paint came off the canvas in textures et cetera. I left thinking, "I like the way those paint globs look; it's aesthetically pleasing to me! Therefore it's art!"

Beautiful. If you haven't seen any paintings in person, think twice before shooting down an artist. (FYI: I've seen Rothko in person. Still don't like him.)

[jontibloom]

Paint is not paint - it is a metaphor for liberation of that part of us which cries out for redemption .........fuck I can be another Jackson Polloct

[pdclift]

Morton Feldman wrote this music, not John Cage!

[AliveGuy33]

What is the title of the track? Was it recorded by John Cage? What year?

[daccasham84]

This bloke was disturbed.

[chei1]

idiot.

[cpkelley]

Cage actually didn't like Jackson Pollock.

"Now and then I would be unable to avoid the encounter; we would meet, and he would always complain that I didn't like his work enough. And I didn't."

"...he had taken five or six cans of paint, had never troubled to vary the color of the paint dripping from the can, and had more or less mechanically - with gesture, however, which he was believing in - let his paint fall out."

from Conversing with Cage, Richard Kostelanetz, page 183.

[meesterschilders]

placed into my playlist of Pollock, thanks

[composerdoh]

I LOVE this video. Does anyone know what Cage pieces these are?

[elaterium]

The lyrical piece at the end is DREAM from the mid 40's. Before that I think it was OPHELIA from the same era (though perhaps it is a different piece, I'm not sure).

[jamesinsalaco111]

I don't understand this at all. To me it is scribbling on a piece of paper. Surely an artists job is to serve people with something that they can respect and appreciate. Not to present their audience with something unrelated to anything but themselves, and their expression of their self? Does he see the reality that we are all a part of as scribbles too?

[rausis]

For sure you cant understand aan artist work, its all about himself and not to serve anybody, we have doctors, politicians and waitress to serve people; art is a human expression, a real artist shows his soul trougth his work, even when nobody like it.

[bullitosaladino]

being true to yourself in art does serve others because it shows them a bit of true humanity - the truest we know which is ourselves

[arthwr]

(...)something unrelated to anything but themselves, and their expression of their self? Does he see the reality that we are all a part of as scribbles too? "

MODERN ART

don't be a screw up things,really.this is modern art,if you don't like buy a camera :)

[Offin]

I am not sure, about whether the ideas of Polloc can get allong with Cage's ideas. Listen to Cage's commentares on the meaning of sound, what he thinks about it. Polloc talks about inner world, and psychological expresions. I think Cage would rather see "just" colours and shapes in space., and see the original beauty within them, how they are and how they act and cooperate, rather then thinking that they are just medium that is supposed to deliver something else, something that is not shown.

[composerdoh]

But, does it really matter all that much? The subjective experience of the film is largely what you bring to it. It's OK that you bring that knowledge to your experience, and I appreciate you sharing it, but that shouldn't take away from someone else who doesn't carry that to the film and just enjoys it without much knowledge of Cage or Pollock's particular "intentions."

[Kemenesfalvi]

i don't think that a bit of knowlage of Cage's artistic aspects destroys the experience in fact the emotional experience in Cage's music completely depends on the listeners (maybe not in these one i think these are earlyer works without chance operation) reaction becouse Cage has maybe never intended lead the listener to exact feeling

[Kemenesfalvi]

That was my first idea too when i saw the first quotation. I heard some Cage interviews that he said he uses chance operation so as not to be limited by his own taste or personality, Pollock says the complete oposite, but i like his painting in the video and the music kinda goes with it

[gudgioni]

wrong, Cge said he looks to see the coke bottle as diferently each time, but that means in relation to his own perception. He wills his perception each to time to be different frrom previously, and as such is referncing only to his own personal history

[plslvmn]

Pollock's work is great. It's gestural and incredibly original...

[timbearcub]

wouldn't Merce Cunningham on John Cage be more factual?

*runs away grinning*

[CEdicon]

haha, also Cage didn't really like Pollock at all... he was way too butch and an unpleasant person in Cage's opinion. I would sooner put Rauschenberg or Johns against Cage's music like you did in this piece

[porfavormeudeus]

Jackson Bollocks

[bummercucumber]

You've put two of my heroes into one video. I love this.

[Kurtyoungblood]

An elephant could do those paintings.

[GreggaryPeccary]

Are you sure?

[Kurtyoungblood]

Actually, yes. In Alaska we had this elephant, Maggie, and she made paintings that were just streaks and blotches.

[antidorm]

people can't observe modern art unless their ready to put aesthetics behind concept

[liquidfreak]

Why did your comment get a negative response, it is entirely true!!

[k3riguma]

Disgusting.

[TibbsTV]

Lovely and insightful.

[gutabo]

Maravilloso. Gracias!

[josephmahan]

Great job with this video. Wonderful, the way you have incorporated Pollock's quotes along with the images, and the Cage score works beautifully. Thank you.

[planetpimp]

Thank you for this video.

[iwanttowatchsomethin]

Interesting, that Pollack and Cage had such opposing views on art, yet are present together in this video, complimenting one another. I don't agree that Pollack's paintings have no center, since there is less activity and paint found around the edges of the canvas -- I forget which critic pointed this out. Thanks for posting this.

[Kurtyoungblood]

Well then you are wrong. Because what the artist says goes.

[iwanttowatchsomethin]

So what is true about a artists works are what artists say about them? If this were the case we could just as well dispense with their works and just listen to their statements. Artist's statements are important because they often reveal the intentions and values of the artist. We can then observe how the work reflects or contradicts these statements. I think it is fine for a work to contradict statements of an artist since words and painting are different media.

[Kurtyoungblood]

PollOck is the highest authority on his art. You could just as well say that you think one of Pollock's painting is a painting of let's say, a lion. But your opinion, when the exact opposite of the artist's statement of fact, is absolutely irrelevent and ridiculous.

[iwanttowatchsomethin]

I am not suggesting anyone has a higher authority than anyone else. An artists works while related to the conscious forces guiding their creation, are not equal to their statements about them. That is all I am saying. Artists often achieve effects in their works despite themselves. We can observe the same in John's very personal idiom, despite his statements in which he eschews personality. John Cage, some have suggested,might be a romantic despite himself.

[wafflecotton]

hi, some interesting things you said here - i was wondering which people have suggested that Cage "might be a romantic despite himself" -would be nice to read where this idea came from,. these issues seem to be present in all artists that i find interesting, this contradictory element. any info apreichiated,.!

cheers. ,.

[iwanttowatchsomethin]

I'll have to look it up. My first guess is that this attitude was expressed in the book "Composed in America" edited by Marjorie Perloff (?). Cage's search for unadulterated sound experience is likened to a romantic reverence for nature as against the constructs of man. I think Cage's philosophy has roots in American Transcendentalism, which had its reflections in the philosophy of the East. Thanks for your comment.

[AndycKV]

@Kurtyoungblood

The artists intention is only as valuable as the receipients interpretation. i could say all day that these paintings are representations of the effect of war upon the human mind...I might be wrong but how exactly is it any less relevant if i take something from it, than the intentions of pollock? Answer: it is not.

[cybeavertoo]

lots of art gets misinterpreted, thats the way life goes. Do we understand renaissance art the way they did in the16th century. Of course not, even with the best intentions. If an artist wants a work to be understood the way he or she did outside the medium of the artwork itself, it would be a tiranny of mind. Art is free to go where it does, everybody is free to like an artwork the way he or she does, whatever the artist said about it.

[Kurtyoungblood]

Yes, but if Mark Rothko paints a lion and says its a lion, and then someone comes along and says it is a duck... I am sorry they are wrong.

[cybeavertoo]

well no, it could b that rothko was such a lousy lion-painter, that his lion actually looked more like a duck. The question is if the words and meaning adjusted to the artwork by the artist are more genuine then the artwork itself. I say no.

would have been interesting to see what Rothko made of a lion though ;)

[cybeavertoo]

a problem with nowadays art is that it often even isnt recognisable as art, without the help of context (museum/gallery, or the help of words and statements/virtual context. Thats why i especially in regard to nowadays art am very inclined to give all truth to the artwork itself instead of attached meanings or context.

[Kurtyoungblood]

I don't think he could have done it :) But yes it would be interesting.

[AndycKV]

@Kurtyoungblood

No they arent, subjective interpretations are not fact therefore cannot be wrong or right.

[BodiZoltan]

In this way why don't we look at punk rock as modern art?

[cybeavertoo]

you r free to do so, at least it is modern. But i dont know if many will buy this from you ;)

[trojanlol]

john zorn, the avant-gardiste composer is involved in hardcore music, japanese music etc.. So this is possible, check the tzadik' web site, you'll see how punk-rock can be modern art ;p

[deadgent]

i'd look at it as post-modern art

[AndycKV]

@BodiZoltan

Because punk was a musical fad, eventually becoming a tired and empty cliche void of any integrity

[Roswellsounds]

Truly interesting...

"Infinity in my fingers..."

[toad212]

Beautifful!