Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.
- Franklin
I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
- Jefferson
This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.
- John Adams
What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief of this debauchery is called faith.
"The tendency to usurpation on one side or the other, or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will be best guarded against by an entire abstinence of the Gov't from interference in any way whatsoever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and protecting each sect against trespasses on its legal rights by others."
Wow... if ignorance is bliss than you must truly have a blissful life.
Learn to understand that any references to God in our nation's history are signaling to the recognition of a great being, not your Judeo-Christian God, Yahweh.
Our forefathers, barring Washington, were Deists and Atheists, not Christians.
Since you love quotes so much, here's a few I'd love to hear you explain. These by the way are by forefathers who actually developed this nation's policies, not just governed with them
You need to go back and watch the video again. Our forefathers may have been diest, Christian, Methodist...the bottom line there was unwavering unity among all of them that the founding principles of Christianity and the Bible is what they desired to build a new nation upon. Take a look a the opening stanzas of the Declaration of independence. "endowed by their Creator " "Nature's God..."
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
Irrelevant. We're not talking about making a law dictating a national religion - we're talking about the philosophical ideals and the world view on which the nation was founded.
"Does that mean that the christians are responsible for our lack of morals today?"
Again - the guilty by association fallacy. There is a misnomer that the definition Christian applies to any religious person. That is not true. There are many who call them selves "Christian" that are not. (Christ teaches on this.) So your implication that (Assuming your number is correct) that 88% of America is "Christian" is soooo not true. The fault lies on society as a whole-so i guess we agree on that.
Well there we go - we agree on something. I disagree with your conclusion, however. Do you truly believe that Christians of 200 years ago would turn on our TVs for example and be happy about what they see?... would they be happy about the rampant VD, abortions and increase in violence?
"At which point did this country had become so morally decrepit."
That's a fair question. My personal opinion is we can probably point the 60's-the era of free love and the birth of post-modern thought...the idea that morality is subjective began about that time. Agreed-we have the constitution, but again over the last 50 years or so we've really developed a liberal interpretation. We have judges interpreting the constitution in light of their liberal mind-set...not a literal interpretation.
"Building a country on a theistic foundation is a mistake."
And that's where you and i will definitely have to simply disagree. I believe the primary reason this country has become so morally decrepit is that it has abandoned the roots on which she was founded. Simple as that. So yes...that's my perspective...but i never say whether or not the founding fathers were "right or wrong" in the video...I'm only saying right or wrong - we've deviated from their vision. Period. That you cannot deny.
The reason its relevant is because our country has fallen so far from whence it was birthed. We have abandoned our founding fathers vision of a country rooted in the Gospel and the direction of God. Instead we've moved to a post-modern era where truth is relative and no body cares what the Bible says anymore... I believe we would be better off if we returned to our roots. THAT'S the relevancy. Hope that clears up your confusion.
atkiman - you're looking to argue an issue when non exists... to answer your question "Which is it?" its BOTH. a) The video provides an argument for the Christian Roots of our nation. b) I'm not saying its a good thing or bad thing per se - you're entitled to your opinion. What we must not do is deny that our country (The US) was founded on Biblical Christian principles...that's the point.
What's that got to do with anything?? You are guilty of the red herring fallacy. The point of the video is the overwhelming evidence of the Theistic / Judeo Christian foundation of the founding fathers as a whole. Its a matter of history which cannot be denied.
So many out of context quotes, George Washington was most likely a Christian but the others such as Lincoln, Patrick Henry and Jefferson especially were painful. I noticed this video also left out Madison and Franklin.
Actually - the quotes are accurate. Many / Most of the founding fathers were Christians or deists. Its history, man. You can check it out for yourself.
I do believe the quotes are accurate but they are most definately out of context. Some of the founding fathers (as I believe Washington) were deists but there is no arguing that Jefferson claimed to be a Theist (if not an Atheist) and that other founding fathers are argued to be Atheists such as Ben Franklin.
Nonsense - However, I'd be happy to review the context of which you speak... Please specify how the quotes were out of context and provide documentation and I'd be happy to revise the video if its the case. The video makes a very powerful arguement for the Christian (or Theist) roots of a majority of the founding fathers. Pop quiz: Take a look at your dollar bill...in whom does it say we trust?
Thomas Jefferson labeled himself as a Theist as mentioned earlier. Looking at the quote Jefferson is speaking about nature and universally all are born free. Examining the Declaration and his letters published in entirety by Merrill D. Peterson, Jefferson's view of god is as a guiding force, the name is arbitrary. Jefferson viewed the bible as a source of good morals but disagreed with the Christian abuse & dogma of Jesus' teachings and published his own Bible.
Exactly! So you see - as I said, our country is founded on God - whether it be a Judeo-Christian worldview (which was quite the majority) or a theist view as you mention - there was an acknowledgment to God and the Bible. That's not the case any longer, our country has diverged from whence it came...and our society has collapsed along with it. Thanks for helping solidify the point, Dragon.
Perhaps it would be if that were the case but that is not what we are arguing nor is it the point of the video. The video's point is "Are We a Christian Nation?" and my point we are arguing is over context of the quotes, this proves neither. You never once said (to me anyways) "our country is founded on God" until the last responce. In addition the context of "God" is not the same to Jefferson as Judeo-Christians. God to Jefferson is a force of nature, hence it is out of context.
"God to Jefferson is a force of nature, hence it is out of context."
Completely irrelevant.
Go back and read the quote by Jefferson again. He said the God who gave us life (Regardless of the label) gave us liberty. He also stated the Bible (thus Christian virtues) is the cornerstone of American Liberty. So regardless of his personal convictoins, he stands with his peers here-and that doesn't bide well with an atheist, i know. But no matter how you cut the cake - its chocolate. like it or not.
If you state in this video "Are We A Christian Nation?" in hopes to prove it and if we argue context then you cannot say that. You cannot say the Theist God is the same as the Christian God. It is out of context. God is not the same to the Theist as it is to the Judeo-Christians. Just because they have the same name does not mean they are the same thing. Jefferson disliked Christianity and the fact that this quote is being used to show he supports it is a gross misrepresentation the man.
And I am saying you can be an Theist, deist, Mormon, Hindu or whatever but STILL argue for and espouse the virtues of the Christian religion. Why do you assume someone has to be a Christian to acknowledge and proclaim the virtues of the Bible and Christianity?? (Did you ever look at your dollar bill like I mentioned? Who does it say we trust in as a nation?? Did you do your homework??)
McCain will celebrate the 4th of July by reflecting on his fellow patriots that have built America and died for her freedom. While barrack hussein collaborates w/ Bill Ayers and rev. Wright in an attempt to destroy her. A slap in the face to all American Patriots that have sacrificed, fought, and have fallen.
Yeah i understand, I am assuming this is a church youth group of some sort and sometimes money is tight but there are a few editing things you could do to make this easier to watch. The biggest one being cutting out dead time. There is too much space between two people talking in a few instances. Just a small suggestion but I hope it helps, other than that it just takes practice and equipment upgrades never hurt, though yours doesn't seem to be that bad. God Bless.
Good message. Good points, not a great production or acting but its just too bad that people will not get the message here and realize the importance of this video when we have people like Obama throwing away our NATION UNDER GOD.
Thanks for your feedback - can you provide some insight as to how you think we could have made it a better production? (we only have one, older model digital camera and greenscreen. One of these days we'll upgrade to a camera that can handle separate microphone jacks.
Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.
- Franklin
I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
- Jefferson
This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.
- John Adams
What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief of this debauchery is called faith.
- Paine
Alhidalgo 2 years ago
"The tendency to usurpation on one side or the other, or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will be best guarded against by an entire abstinence of the Gov't from interference in any way whatsoever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and protecting each sect against trespasses on its legal rights by others."
-James Madison
Alhidalgo 2 years ago
Wow... if ignorance is bliss than you must truly have a blissful life.
Learn to understand that any references to God in our nation's history are signaling to the recognition of a great being, not your Judeo-Christian God, Yahweh.
Our forefathers, barring Washington, were Deists and Atheists, not Christians.
Since you love quotes so much, here's a few I'd love to hear you explain. These by the way are by forefathers who actually developed this nation's policies, not just governed with them
Alhidalgo 2 years ago
You need to go back and watch the video again. Our forefathers may have been diest, Christian, Methodist...the bottom line there was unwavering unity among all of them that the founding principles of Christianity and the Bible is what they desired to build a new nation upon. Take a look a the opening stanzas of the Declaration of independence. "endowed by their Creator " "Nature's God..."
rayh007 2 years ago
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
Irrelevant. We're not talking about making a law dictating a national religion - we're talking about the philosophical ideals and the world view on which the nation was founded.
rayh007 2 years ago
"Does that mean that the christians are responsible for our lack of morals today?"
Again - the guilty by association fallacy. There is a misnomer that the definition Christian applies to any religious person. That is not true. There are many who call them selves "Christian" that are not. (Christ teaches on this.) So your implication that (Assuming your number is correct) that 88% of America is "Christian" is soooo not true. The fault lies on society as a whole-so i guess we agree on that.
rayh007 3 years ago
Well there we go - we agree on something. I disagree with your conclusion, however. Do you truly believe that Christians of 200 years ago would turn on our TVs for example and be happy about what they see?... would they be happy about the rampant VD, abortions and increase in violence?
rayh007 3 years ago
"At which point did this country had become so morally decrepit."
That's a fair question. My personal opinion is we can probably point the 60's-the era of free love and the birth of post-modern thought...the idea that morality is subjective began about that time. Agreed-we have the constitution, but again over the last 50 years or so we've really developed a liberal interpretation. We have judges interpreting the constitution in light of their liberal mind-set...not a literal interpretation.
rayh007 3 years ago
"Building a country on a theistic foundation is a mistake."
And that's where you and i will definitely have to simply disagree. I believe the primary reason this country has become so morally decrepit is that it has abandoned the roots on which she was founded. Simple as that. So yes...that's my perspective...but i never say whether or not the founding fathers were "right or wrong" in the video...I'm only saying right or wrong - we've deviated from their vision. Period. That you cannot deny.
rayh007 3 years ago
"So What?"
The reason its relevant is because our country has fallen so far from whence it was birthed. We have abandoned our founding fathers vision of a country rooted in the Gospel and the direction of God. Instead we've moved to a post-modern era where truth is relative and no body cares what the Bible says anymore... I believe we would be better off if we returned to our roots. THAT'S the relevancy. Hope that clears up your confusion.
rayh007 3 years ago
atkiman - you're looking to argue an issue when non exists... to answer your question "Which is it?" its BOTH. a) The video provides an argument for the Christian Roots of our nation. b) I'm not saying its a good thing or bad thing per se - you're entitled to your opinion. What we must not do is deny that our country (The US) was founded on Biblical Christian principles...that's the point.
rayh007 3 years ago
"a fallacy by verbocity!" What? - if you don't know what a red herring is, google it and find out.
"Just because this many people or that many presidents thought that way then does not mean that they were right"
I never said they were right or wrong...just that the founding fathers had a strong belief about God and the Bible.
"slavery-did not make it right either."
RED HERRING! We aren't talking about slavery, we're talking about what the founding fathers thought of God and the Bible.
rayh007 3 years ago
Red herring - go back and read my prior post to you!
rayh007 3 years ago
What's that got to do with anything?? You are guilty of the red herring fallacy. The point of the video is the overwhelming evidence of the Theistic / Judeo Christian foundation of the founding fathers as a whole. Its a matter of history which cannot be denied.
rayh007 3 years ago
So many out of context quotes, George Washington was most likely a Christian but the others such as Lincoln, Patrick Henry and Jefferson especially were painful. I noticed this video also left out Madison and Franklin.
DragonmasterA1ex 3 years ago
Actually - the quotes are accurate. Many / Most of the founding fathers were Christians or deists. Its history, man. You can check it out for yourself.
rayh007 3 years ago
I do believe the quotes are accurate but they are most definately out of context. Some of the founding fathers (as I believe Washington) were deists but there is no arguing that Jefferson claimed to be a Theist (if not an Atheist) and that other founding fathers are argued to be Atheists such as Ben Franklin.
DragonmasterA1ex 3 years ago
Nonsense - However, I'd be happy to review the context of which you speak... Please specify how the quotes were out of context and provide documentation and I'd be happy to revise the video if its the case. The video makes a very powerful arguement for the Christian (or Theist) roots of a majority of the founding fathers. Pop quiz: Take a look at your dollar bill...in whom does it say we trust?
rayh007 3 years ago
"God who gave us life" quote
Thomas Jefferson labeled himself as a Theist as mentioned earlier. Looking at the quote Jefferson is speaking about nature and universally all are born free. Examining the Declaration and his letters published in entirety by Merrill D. Peterson, Jefferson's view of god is as a guiding force, the name is arbitrary. Jefferson viewed the bible as a source of good morals but disagreed with the Christian abuse & dogma of Jesus' teachings and published his own Bible.
DragonmasterA1ex 3 years ago
Exactly! So you see - as I said, our country is founded on God - whether it be a Judeo-Christian worldview (which was quite the majority) or a theist view as you mention - there was an acknowledgment to God and the Bible. That's not the case any longer, our country has diverged from whence it came...and our society has collapsed along with it. Thanks for helping solidify the point, Dragon.
rayh007 3 years ago
Perhaps it would be if that were the case but that is not what we are arguing nor is it the point of the video. The video's point is "Are We a Christian Nation?" and my point we are arguing is over context of the quotes, this proves neither. You never once said (to me anyways) "our country is founded on God" until the last responce. In addition the context of "God" is not the same to Jefferson as Judeo-Christians. God to Jefferson is a force of nature, hence it is out of context.
DragonmasterA1ex 3 years ago
"God to Jefferson is a force of nature, hence it is out of context."
Completely irrelevant.
Go back and read the quote by Jefferson again. He said the God who gave us life (Regardless of the label) gave us liberty. He also stated the Bible (thus Christian virtues) is the cornerstone of American Liberty. So regardless of his personal convictoins, he stands with his peers here-and that doesn't bide well with an atheist, i know. But no matter how you cut the cake - its chocolate. like it or not.
rayh007 3 years ago
If you state in this video "Are We A Christian Nation?" in hopes to prove it and if we argue context then you cannot say that. You cannot say the Theist God is the same as the Christian God. It is out of context. God is not the same to the Theist as it is to the Judeo-Christians. Just because they have the same name does not mean they are the same thing. Jefferson disliked Christianity and the fact that this quote is being used to show he supports it is a gross misrepresentation the man.
DragonmasterA1ex 3 years ago
And I am saying you can be an Theist, deist, Mormon, Hindu or whatever but STILL argue for and espouse the virtues of the Christian religion. Why do you assume someone has to be a Christian to acknowledge and proclaim the virtues of the Bible and Christianity?? (Did you ever look at your dollar bill like I mentioned? Who does it say we trust in as a nation?? Did you do your homework??)
rayh007 3 years ago
McCain will celebrate the 4th of July by reflecting on his fellow patriots that have built America and died for her freedom. While barrack hussein collaborates w/ Bill Ayers and rev. Wright in an attempt to destroy her. A slap in the face to all American Patriots that have sacrificed, fought, and have fallen.
0bomination 3 years ago
Yeah i understand, I am assuming this is a church youth group of some sort and sometimes money is tight but there are a few editing things you could do to make this easier to watch. The biggest one being cutting out dead time. There is too much space between two people talking in a few instances. Just a small suggestion but I hope it helps, other than that it just takes practice and equipment upgrades never hurt, though yours doesn't seem to be that bad. God Bless.
jboreing 3 years ago
Good message. Good points, not a great production or acting but its just too bad that people will not get the message here and realize the importance of this video when we have people like Obama throwing away our NATION UNDER GOD.
jboreing 3 years ago
Thanks for your feedback - can you provide some insight as to how you think we could have made it a better production? (we only have one, older model digital camera and greenscreen. One of these days we'll upgrade to a camera that can handle separate microphone jacks.
rayh007 3 years ago