"the wicked is an atonement (atonement defined as, the act of, the act of atoning for sin or wrongdoing) for the righteous; and the faithless come in the place of the upright" (the faithless are those new to the things of God)
The righteous is delivered out of trouble, and the wicked cometh in his stead.
My interpretation is righteous are delivered and wicked take the place of those who are unrighteous. It doesn't say the wicked delivered the righteous.
Proverbs 21:12The righteous man wisely considereth the house of the wicked: but God overthroweth the wicked for their wickedness. (God didn't replace wicked with wickedness.)
John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Ephesians 2:8,9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast.
Interesting that the word here "Atonement" is everywhere else, in ALL sources I have checked, "Ransom" That makes a BIG DIFFERENCE. Let's entertain the idea that the wicked ARE an Atonement for forgiveness of the reader's Sins.
Pro 17:15 He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD
The wicked are what justifies you, a sinner? How does it fit with the requirement of a perfect lamb? Why not slay swine then? U have a problem!
what i understand is that we are naturally unclean and to be one with a pure being, as far as how it is laid out in the "OT", we need a an animal sacrifice (recall the holy-of holy's which we couldn't enter w/o having shed blood) so by way of his sacrifice, the messiah made a way to unite us back with the Holy one...
as far as making the sacrifice of a humble spirit before offering up something.. amayn to that. its true. even the messiah states we should get ourselves right w/ men before going to "the temple to offer" up to the Father.
Q: what kinds of offerings are these verses in Lev. referring to? As I understand it, the "once and for all," "blood" offering which the messiah of the scriptures paid was parallel to the 1yr old unblemished animal (lamb?) that is used on Yom ha kippureem/kippur/Day of Atonement.
I'll have to review to see about the goat(?) which was used to take the sins and was sent off into the wilderness -whether it was/not w/ blemish ...
The one not able to offer a blood sacrifice still lays the offering on the BLOOD of the alter. Secondly how can in God's justice equate the death of a lamb, doves, or grain to His Holiness? That would be an infinite injustice and lower infinitely the value of G-d's Holiness. He is not going to sacrifice His Holiness and Justice for the sake of His Love and Forgiveness by the death of something He created, both must be perfectly upheld. Prov. 17:15
@blackisraelite9 Israel. The surrounding chapters demonstrate that when the Israelites harden their hearts God hands them over to their enemies. Then when they learn their lesson He delivers them. With this knowledge they help guide the gentile nations, etc, etc.
The word "seed" used in the passage does not refer to metaphorical descendants, but physical ones. Last I checked, Jesus did not have children and Christians are not descendant from those children.
"I am sought of [them that] asked not [for me]; I am found of [them that] sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation [that] was not called by my name."
Isaiah 65:1
And God said, "Let US make man in our image." One God, manifest in 3 persons.
The name of God is Jesus. We come to the Father through Jesus the Son. Jehovah Shammah the Lord is there. He really is. I've encountered him and I've heard his voice. The same God who spoke to Moses, spoke to me. Jesus is Lord, I am sure.
@yomamasofat87 Yes, Jer. 23:5-6 Messianic prophecy fulfilled in Christ alone. The rest dealt with lying prophets. But remember, in Jeremiah's day, people considered him to be a false prophet and only he knew the truth. It was a tough message, just as tough as to tell the Jews that Jesus is the Messiah today and they need to surrender to him.
Isaiah 7:14: "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel." cont..
cont... this verse in Isaiah only makes sense if the Hebrew word for virgin is interpreted as virgin. For young maids get married all the time. But it would be a great sign for G-d is a virgin were to conceive.
"And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13
I know this verse is true from experience. I sought him will all my heart and found him and his name is Jesus. You cannot reject Jesus and still go to Heaven. Impossible...Cont...
cont...also, to reject the Son is to reject the Father and that is why your prayers are not being heard.
You cannot come to God by OT methods. That's over. Animal sacrifices have ceased right after Christ's crucifixion, not a coincidence, you can only come to God on His Terms and His Terms are that you come through Jesus Christ. This is the message you need to bring to your Jewish brethren, if you are up for it.
@biblethink Jeremiah's message: surrender to King Nebuchadnezzar and you will live. Fight against him and you will die.
God's message today. Surrender to Jesus Christ and you will live. Fight against him and you will die.
Jeremiah's message was treasonous back then. Yet is was, Thus saith the Lord. Many Jews today think it is treasonous to believe in Christ, yet God has his remnant who do as He always has, check out Jews for Jesus.
@biblethink but you guys think that the whole OT is based on messianic prophecy, no jesus did not fulfill the prophets he tried to but he died. we cannot count on one man to save the whole world jesus isn't superman, in the tanakh it says that moshiakh will be an ordinary man, so how could jesus be this moshiakh if he was half man half god? that doesn't make any sense. let me explain to you Isaiah 7:14 its talking about Israel that because the jews among us so is hashem. egypt bore israel.
@yomamasofat87 Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and[ will call him Immanuel."
This is pretty straightforward. I don't understand what you were trying to say, egypt bore israel? Prophecy deals with the future not the past. Israel was already free from Egyptian bondage at this point.
Anyway a virgin conceiving is a sign from the Lord, just as Sarah conceiving at appox. 100. This is how the Lord works, in the miraculous.
@biblethink don't you know that King David was a Christ? and Aaron and Isaiah ect. there were many christs! Cezar was christ also...so y do u say the christ. jesus could never be king anyways because he is a descendant of Jechoniah.
@yomamasofat87 If you google Jesus a descendant of Jechoniah you will come across an informative article by Jews for Jesus explaining this in detail. They give references in scripture and the Talmud. They show how the phrase, "in his lifetime," means in his lifetime. etc. so to say that Jesus could not be King on David's throne is not true, just as to say that Abraham could not have children at age 100. With G-d all things are possible. This is not a contradiction but a misinterpretation.
@biblethink i know exactly what jews for jews for jesus are...their called fake jews. im a noachide for judaism. i have carefully studied these texts and have done my research on it. there is no way you can convince me otherwise. how do you prove jesus to be 100% man 100% god and the name jesus to be holier than that of hashem? christianity is a new age religion with many flaws just as the new testament.
@yomamasofat87 "Record this man as if childless, a man who will not prosper in his lifetime, for none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule any more in Judah.""
But G_d acknowledges his son and grandson here. How is that?
'On that day,' declares the LORD Almighty, 'I will take you, my servant Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel,' declares the LORD, 'and I will make you like my signet ring, for I have chosen you,' declares the LORD Almighty."
@biblethink anyone who sits as king must be descended from King Solomon not descended from King Jeconiah. the curse is binding, because after Jeconiah was deposed, instead of the throne being handed to his son, it passed to Zedekiah, his uncle. No descendant of Jeconiah ever held the throne, or ever can hold the throne. His grandson, Zerubbabel, held power granted by G-d, but was never king.
@yomamasofat87 "His grandson, Zerubbabel, held power granted by G-d, but was never king. "
Why was his grandson allow to hold power, ei rule as governor of Judah when the curse CLEARLY says, "none will sit on the throne of David or rule any more in Judah," I want to emphasize, "or rule any more in Judah"?
Why wasn't this part of the curse enforced? matter of fact, he was quite honored to be called G-d's signet ring. Do you have an answer why this part of the curse didn't seem to go to far?
@yomamasofat87 "His grandson, Zerubbabel, held power granted by G-d, but was never king. "
Why was his grandson allow to hold power, ei rule as governor of Judah when the curse CLEARLY says, "none will sit on the throne of David or rule any more in Judah," I want to emphasize, "or rule any more in Judah"?
Why wasn't this part of the curse enforced? matter of fact, he was quite honored to be called G-d's signet ring. Do you have an answer why this part of the curse didn't seem to go to far?
@yomamasofat87 "His grandson, Zerubbabel, held power granted by G-d, but was never king. "
Why was his grandson allow to hold power, ei rule as governor of Judah when the curse CLEARLY says, "none will sit on the throne of David or rule any more in Judah," I want to emphasize, "or rule any more in Judah"?
Why wasn't this part of the curse enforced? matter of fact, he was quite honored to be called G-d's signet ring. Do you have an answer why this part of the curse didn't
@biblethink jesus couldnt be king anyways because he wasn't born from a human father suposedly...don't you know that kingship is passed thruough the fathers line not the mothers? even if joseph was the real father of jesus it was josephs line that was cursed.
anyways i gotta go get on with my life. but when john creates world peace, regathers israel, has everyone obey the laws of the torah, and brings everyone to know G_d, give me a call then i might believe what you're saying
@thebibleastronaut no John does not make the claim to be a forerunner of Elijah. Jesus said that, you stupid animal.
And an other thing, if you read your gospel it says clearly that John made a statement that he was not Elijah nor Prophet. So there you go, stealing the words of prophets again and applying them to your idle shepherd who let you get eaten by the wolves.
"For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt", "And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt"
Exodus 12, which you didn't take into considerations, tells us what atonement is, how atonement is made, and who shall be the means of the atonement "Take a lamb", "a male", "without blemish" (=without sin), "kill it in the evening", " take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses"
IT is scary to think that we do not have devine intervention and that no one is probably watching over us caring. How ever that is what truly seems to be real. there is no caring god, there seems to be no god that cares about anyone. I know that sucks but that is reality. Its even sadder to see my own race realing on dark age books for reality that have been proving wrong again and again. lets all give a blood offering and hope we are right just like our unknowing ansestors
@tzedekyahu People can easily find justification for almost anything they want and say it is gOD giving them permission or wants things a certain way. I would love to see societies based upon and look up to reasoning, facts, and what the human thought process can do if we come together with as few things holding us back from progress I feel we can achieve without thoughtless rulers and dictatorships, Religion plays a large part in the way people are willing to vote and sway their minds.
@party489 continually, you confuse religious beliefs and people, with christians, or radical muslims. radical muslims are a minority, many of the violent ones simply use their religion as an excuse for their atrocities, in the same way that socialist/communist russia (which was based in an utter lack of religion BTW) used their non-religious "more advanced logic based" thinking to murder millions.
why do u need Jesus? because in the Old Testament all of the sacrifices require clean sacrifices, without blemish.. we sinned against God, everyone, and when someone bears God's wrath they are paying the punishment for their own sins. it can't be that they are being punished for other peoples sins as well. That why we need Jesus. He became sin who knew no sin that we might become His rightousness. I know those verses that u mentioned, but u mustve taken them out of context. u dont think so?
@HenrikAlexM well see the thing is there was certain sacrifices for different things.
according to Torah jesus couldn't have been a sin offering because he would have had to been female.....according to Numbers 6:14There he is to present his offerings to the LORD: a year-old male lamb without defect for a burnt offering, a year-old ewe lamb without defect for a sin offering, a ram without defect for a fellowship offering,
how can some of my fellow species still believe such insanely silly and just stupid myths that are obviously fiction. Its just so sad that so many people talk to themselves and have imaginary friends. Muslums christians all and any religion how do the sheep not doubt the books they follow.
@party489 in a world such as this, is it not sheepish to not believe as well? people who don't believe in a higher power always seem to think that anyone who does simply follows without question. as someone who has been there, I can tell you that it is foolish reasoning.
@tzedekyahu no what reason and obvious proof is there to believe any god had someone pen a book for the rest of us to follow without question. The position for anything is it is not true or exist until proper reason is shown to believe that it does. You do not find it hard to believe that a true god would tell just one guy all this stuff and really expect everyone to believe it with no real evidence. There are thousands of gods that have no justification for belief and aLLAH is just anouther 1
@party489 you didn't answer my question, you just turned it around to being about your agenda. thats ok, I'm used to that from christians, and atheists both. it is a fallacy that all religious believers believe blindly. that is the point of my statement, and my question was very simple.
@tzedekyahu I find it has been the atheist and agnostics who appear to ask the most questions and want more than blindly following. Most of the believers do follow blindly and just believe with no or little true reasoning behind it. Thats what faith is. Faith is pretty much blindly following.
@party489 there are theist agnostics too, who believe in a higher power but are skeptics and strugglers. faith is largely a function of christianity, and since christians make up the majority in most societies, the brush of stereotype that paints them, also spills over the line to cover others. the central prayer in judaism says "shema yisroel, adnai elhnu, adnai echad". "hear you who wrestles with G-d," yisroel means one who wrestles with G-d. without skepticism, I think belief is empty.
@tzedekyahu Here is the answer to your ?. No it is not sheepish to not believe. I did answer your question in my response. It is the first two letters. NO. It is foolish to believe anything as fact without good reason. And yes of course some people who do not believe thinks a lot of the people who follow does with out question or with out enough questions. How can you see someone who belivies the BS and not wonder how much they question the silly stories that I can find no one can find proof of
@party489 I have known many who identify themselves as atheist who are simply following others into that, without even ever considering things honestly. one doesn't have to believe in any holy scripture to not be atheist. i think that isnt thought of most of the time. people think of it all as so cut and dry. for jews, torah is about what we believe our ancestors relationship with G-d was like, and we honor that. for us, its kind of like reading the constitution, or history books. kinda...
@tzedekyahu Most atheist have considered more and questioned far more then the believers who are willing to blindly follow. And for the jews who believe in the OT when did god say that became irrelevant? I do not see them killing people who work on the sabbith or blood sacrifes. When did god say to the jews hey this stuff is only relavant for so many years because although I said it and everything is true forever the more civilized humans get the crazier it will seem so pick and choose.
@party489 I think its a false argument to state that most atheists have considered more and questioned more than believers...but when you add the caveat at the end of the sentence, well, thats why they call it blind faith. I don't really consider blind faith to be genuine. the argument about not killing people on the sabbath, or offering sacrifices is likewise a fallacy based on lack of correct info, and instead being pumped with the ignorance of an upbringing in a christian culture.no offense
@tzedekyahu What do yo mean lack of info??? It says it right in the silly book. It says how to do it. How is this lack of info the crazy old book says it. Even how and when to kill the animals and people. Ignorance and christian do seem to fit together fairly well though. Most of the atheist and agnostics I know have put a lot more thought in to their beliefs and various religoins than just accepting their parents god as is the case with most believers I know. Believe it Bc we always have.
@party489 one of the problems with modern/christian culture understanding the things that are written, is the attempt to interpret things based on a translation, christian/pagan background, and poor translations. it would take me some time to be able to explain things to you here, because the things are not simply cut and dried as "read, and do exactly what you think it says". there is also a large misunderstanding bred from deliberate ignorance in christian culture, designed to push agenda.
@party489 BTW, I used to say that I admired people who could just have blind faith, because things seemed so much easier for them. for me, the simple belief in a higher power has almost always been easy,everything else is what is difficult.
@tzedekyahu Most religions do change as time passes. Yet I no of none whos profits said parts of this book expire after a while and and then you should read some passages differently depending on the times and how insane the writings seem to be. Remind me again of how it says to treat your slaves, Just do not beat them so hard they die that day I believe. And the place of females is not equal to males in most religions, wonder who had the power and wrote most of the books. I am guessing men.
@party489 part of my previous response applies to this comment, sorry for misplacing it. in christianity, they say pretty much exactly that the old arrangements have expired. that is what makes the apostles false prophets in judaism. women have an extremely integral part in judaism, but yes, things are not expressed as equal. then again, cranberry juice and apple juice are quite dissimilar, but mix very well. so too was it recognized that women and men play different roles in life.
@tzedekyahu comparing apple and cranberry juice and their roles is not even close to similar to the roles females and males play in muslim cultures. You know women get treated like property and lesser people and it is supported by the silly old book written by a pedophile that heard voices in his head and had some desert dumbasses believe he flew off to heaven on a magic horse to be the only one to give the supremes ones word to the whole world.
@party489 I'm not muslim, and can't speak for islam. all the same, do you have to be so insensitive as to insult and slander their prophet and holy book? that seems awfully prickish to me...just saying.
@tzedekyahu I see it as 100% false. something that i see no truth in deserves no respect to a dignified mind. It is no different than believing in harry potter or the cat in the hat. Fiction is fiction. however I have no respect for people who believe in fiction for no reason and hurt my race and our becoming more knowing and fact based. Fck al fiction and the humans that support BS fiction as fact. I am the new agnostic that see no reason in respecting silly human beliefs.
@party489 if not for muslims,and jews,and our"silly fiction"you and your"race" would all be living in the dark ages still.with only self-decided ethical systems,civilization ceases to be.muslims gave us the number 0,advanced mathematics; jews gave us modern medicine,footnotes,accountability,humanity,equal rights,none of which would have existed without our "silly books".what you really should say is that you see no reason to respect anyone unless they agree with you,at least that would be true.
@tzedekyahu Easy why do I have a problem with religions and the religious. It is because I see how the beliefs tear my species apart and endanger the world. I got to spend some time in the military and got to see first hand what people are willing to do to each other for reading a silly old man made fiction book just slightly different then their neighbors. The religious pass the BS stories down to their children when they are willing to believe anything some of which I find to be child abuse
@tzedekyahu oh and your silly fiction never gave any race any real info. Independent thinkers did. Not did one of the profits come up with anything in their talks with god. Name one profit of any religion that really came up with something so spectacular he had to be told from god. Did jebus or moohamhead show people about electricity, viruses, advanced medicine, even basic bacteria. No . Religion and the silly books are not required for advanced human thoughts. Religion has held back science.
@party489 hmm...equal/civil rights, courts of law, just penalties, democratic parliament, bankruptcy laws, days of rest, humanitarian ethics, kindness to animals...yup, nothing there. not to mention all of the jewish and muslim physicians and mathematicians that set the european world up for the renaissance by keeping critical symbiotic study alive despite persecution. almost every successful facet of modern society was started in judaism. and yet,I don't even care if you believe in G-d or not
@tzedekyahu Just because someone is of one faith and comes up with very good ideas does not give any validity to that religion. People can do good things with or without being brought up in religion. Who knows how many great thinkers could never say what they really thought about how true the religion of their society was because they knew they would be discriminated against and possibly much more. The fact that religious have done good things does not mean their is any more truth to religion
@party489 I think that part of the problem here, is the intermingling of the modern/western idea of "religion", with what was not a religion for those in the bible. The western idea of religion, is that it's something that somebody goes to be a part of once a week. Judaism-for an observant Jew-is not a religion.It is a way of living ones life spiritually performing those things which we believe the Holy One Blessed be He wants us to do, the way it is desired that we act and relate to others...
@tzedekyahu ...as we believe it was transmitted to our ancestors. Thousands of years of Jewish history, torah study, and community development based upon the direction given in torah, have led to dozens of "modern" rights and liberties that most people don't even realize came from the torah. could they have happened anyway, in their own due time, without this"silly book"? possibly. but the important thing to note is that they hadn't happened before, and then came through it.
@tzedekyahu I am act semi-agnostic. I think there is a possibility that there could be a god. However I do not feel any books have been devinly inspired or that we as a society should look at them as fact based ways to live our lives and try to dictate how others should live their lives. Organized religion does just that.
@party489 I think many "believers" are actually agnostics. withing judaism, there is the torah, and rashi. torah is like the instruction manual given to an employee in a company. rashi (talmud, the sages, oral teachings) and an actual teacher to help one understand (not give the answers, but teach how to find them) what the company expects from the employee is necessary to put the instruction manual to use.an employee who loves the company but doesn't know how to do his work is pretty useless
@tzedekyahu I would still love to see an end to everyone believing that any god or someone they told to have ever written any special book. What I would do to erase all the silly beliefs that have no true justification.
@party489 I think that is a cruel shortsighted, and selfish viewpoint. Not only that, but it is very much along the lines of what many religious people would like to see- an end to anyone thinking something different from them. There are some very horrible things that some people have done in the name of their religion, and there are very horrible things some people have done in the name of no religion. Yet, the opposite is true too, with good things coming from religious and secular.
@tzedekyahu Just what horrible thing has been done in the NAME of no religion. Dont even try saying communism or North Korea or that BS. Actual crimes people done in the name of no religion. I do not care if people believe and keep it to themselves and not try to use it to influence my life but that is exactly what happens. I could care less what god or gods people prayed to. But if they are going to make their beliefs public they should not cry when they are challenged.
@party489 perhaps "in the name of no religion" was a poor choice of words, since surely people don't claim that their deeds are "in the name of non-religion". There have however, been many horrible things done in the name of moral relativism, and yes, communism is something that ends up going there. Socialist parties have ended up there as well. Is it as bad as the atrocities that christians and fundamentalist muslims (or muslims using islam as an excuse) have done?Yes. As often? Maybe not.
@tzedekyahu let me note here too, that not all christians, not all muslims, and not all secular folks behave in these despicable ways. It is IMO a loud minority. The same can be said for communism and socialism- that the concepts are altruistic and humanitarian, but the concept is perverted by the governing powers in application- but these political systems have an even worse track record than religions.
@party489 most christians say the same thing about the holy roman church too. I would have to agree with them. In fact, I would have to say that anyone that perpetrates atrocities to humanity or nature in the name of their religion, is really just a pack of liars who are using an accepted norm of justification (accepted perhaps not by you or me, but historically accepted non-the-less). I personally don't like "religion". I don't see judaism as a "religion", because people have a choice...
@tzedekyahu ...in the matter. and choosing against it doesn't get them killed (except for two very dark spots in history, both during the Hasmonean dynasty). It didn't even have a name until after christianity came around. I hate abortion too, on a very fundamental level, but I will fight for a woman to have her right to a safe abortion, because it is her choice, for herself, and the little person growing inside her. I don't think its right, and she should be educated, but isn't my choice.
@tzedekyahu You know damn well how violent some religions can be and the fact that they can find justification for it in their books just shows how horrid the books are and need to no longer be thought of as the truth bc you can pretty much find approval for what ever you want to do depending on how you read them. Atheist are always judged by theist this alone is enough to want to destroy false beliefs.
@party489 see, I disagree, and we may have to agree to disagree on this, and that's fine. I don't see it as the religion, or the religious, but the weak minded and hearted few who use it as their excuse. I also think, that if you took the religion away, they'd just find another way to justify their actions, some other book, or ideology. many humans are evil, period. yes, their religion is an easy way for them to "justify" it, but they'd "justify" it a different way without it.
@tzedekyahu The problems with the moderates is that they hide and pretty much support some of the crazier ones and makes them feel or even know that their actions are justified by their interpretation of their holy books or one of their holy leaders commands. The lack of an organized religion would take one less thing away to commit crazy acts in the name of and to be discriminated and grouped for. People will judge and treat people differently due to their weird beliefs.
@party489 I don't know so much about hiding and supporting,I think its just the old adage of "bad news sells".watch the news, or most tv shows. there isn't any gudness in programng,because people don't want to watch that.and if there were only disorganized religion,I think there would be even more crazies out there killing and hurting people in the name of their beliefs.especially in a country with freedom of religion,cuz who is to say they're wrong?we know murder is wrong cuz of religion,etc
@tzedekyahu We do not need religion to tell us religion is wrong. It did not take a trip to mt sainia to relize that. Something is true or it is not. It is that simple just admit that religion is utter shit. It is not needed. I am the one saying they are wrong. I do not care if a country respects silly beliefs because I do not. Religion is the bane on society that we should rid ourselves with the minute that it is seen for what it is. There is no reason to respect silly beliefs for society.
@party489 before jewish principles, murder was only wrong if it were a lower member of society murdering an upper member. Stealing could be justified, kidnapping could be justified, there was little history of courts that weren't corrupt (just as in no jewish culture today), sexual immorality (and this isn't a straightforward issue), was allowed and even encouraged. without a higher power, there is no barometer for right and wrong except personally held views;i.e., what is murder? kidnaping?
@tzedekyahu In a modern society there is no reason for the made up beliefs to keep it together. I am not so sure that the jewish principles where the first ones to think murder, stealing and kidnapping where wrong though. True religion did help keep the heathens in line back then and even now. Why would a god let that go on for so long before he gave the jewish their ideas then. It just makes no sense. Why wait so long in human history to put down them laws.
@party489 it is your opinion however, that they are made up beliefs. Is it ok to force your opinion and will on others? it is thought that (according to the biblical stories), the revelations were made in an order according to when those receiving the revelations were willing to accept and able to do them. this is one reason much of christian doctrine doesn't fit, because it effectively contradicts previous agreements, making G-d into a liar. The agreements must be cumulative.basically ...
@tzedekyahu you could say that people werent able to handle the idea of no murder, kidnapping, etc. I asked earlier, but it didn't seem like a question I guess. How do you define murder? kidnapping? Stealing?
@thebibleastronaut messiah comes from the hebrew word moshiach,which means anointed.it refers to one who is anointed with sacred oil,to be set apart from the nation as a spiritual leader (prophet, high priest),or as king.One must be literally anointed with sacred oil,to be a moshiach.it is not smthing that one can claim,or have claimed about him by others.as moddie84 says below,moshiach has nthng to do with whether a person believes in him or not.like the president is factual, not belief based
@thebibleastronaut "the day of the L-rd" is when we see what G-d can do, and he regathers all of israel and the dynasty is restored, and there is peace on earth and everyone worships Hashem.
@moddie84 I don't understand what your point is. I also don't understand how john was messiah. you people seem to have the view that a person can be messiah simply by others saying he is, this is not true. I think that he actually said in the gospels "I am not him" when john is asked if he is messiah. xtians have contended for ages that john the baptiser WAS elijah. I guess they must not truly be "led by the spirit" in their interpretations? or maybe they're not really xtians?
@thebibleastronaut life happens. based on what the day of the L-rd will be like we know that means before the L_rd comes there will be no temple, the jews will be spread out over the world, there will be no world peace, and the whole world will not be worshipping Hashem.
@thebibleastronaut i didn't know thats what you were fishing for...so all I said still stands, then elijah will say it's time for the day of the L_rd. not sure how that changes anything i've said lol. when elijah comes let me know. as we know John the baptist clearly states that he is not elijah.
@thebibleastronaut when the jews have all gathered back to israel never to be exiled gain, the temple is rebuilt never to be destroyed again, war is never waged again, the world has a universal knowledge of G_d, and looks to the jews for advice, the sanhedrein is restablished, and all the laws are observed, then we will talk, because that is how the messianic age is defined in the old testament. so until then
@thebibleastronaut they are waiting for the return of all of israel, not just the tribe of judah, but also the 10 lost tribes who haven't been seen since the 1st exile. If you read ezekiel and jeremiah they describe that the messiah will reunited all 12 tribes to israel. Not to mention the majority of jews live outside of israel, so by no means has the ingathering taken place.
@moddie84 and after jesus, even more people went in to exile and the temple was destroyed. and there have been many persecutions and wars in his name. he accomplished the opposite of what the messiah was supposed to accomplish.
@thebibleastronaut hahaha i just did. more israelites were exiled, israelites suffered more under the era of christianity than they had before. the temple was destroyed, wars and atrocities have been committed in the name of jesus. those are all opposites of what the messiah was supposed to accomplish
@thebibleastronaut how can i show you scriptural example of the roman exile of jews from israel, and the destruction of the 2nd temple in 70AD? if you mean that the messiah was supposed to regather israel/world peace etc... then (Ezekiel 37:26-28) (Isaiah 43:5-6) (Isaiah 2:4)(Zechariah 14:9. there are a few thousand more. i suggest reading ezekiel/jeremiah/isaiah. ezekiel 37 onwards is a good place to start
@thebibleastronaut what you aren't understanding is that according to the old testament, we never have to accept prophets or the messiah, in fact we are only to accept/worship/honor/trust G_d. We are FORBIDDEN to accept/put our faith in man. It is not important who the messiah is, it is ONLY important what that person accomplishes, because it will be a symbol of the fulfillment of our faith that G_d keeps his promises. Elijah and the messiah are in essence irrelevant.
@moddie84 according to the bible, the signs of the messianic age will be so great, that the entire world will know what is going on without any doubt. in fact it would be IMPOSSIBLE not to know the messiah had come.
@thebibleastronaut haha well all the same things still apply. nothing messianic has been accomplished, so you can believe buddah was the messiah. simple fact is, since nothing has been accomplished, the messiah has not come.
@thebibleastronaut hahaha sorry bud, but unless secretly this guy created world peace, ingathered the 12 tribes, created a universal knowledge of G_d, and built a 3rd temple, without my knowledge, he cannot be the messiah. he fulfilled NOTHING that the promised messiah is to accomplish.
@moddie84 like i said, any nut can claim to be anything, and can prophesy in the name of G_d, but if G_d's promises aren't carried out and you believe in him, then you trust in this man more than you trust in G_d.
@thebibleastronaut hahaha i don't even know what you're talking about. its such a simple concept. the people are irrelevant. what those people accomplish is what truly matters. There is never any discussion that there has to be a 1st century 'messiah' in the bible. in fact the term "The Messiah" is never even used in the old testament. The word moshiach(messiah), refers to any king and high priest. So silly how messianics never seem to realize this. btw im not orthodox
@thebibleastronaut haha what do you mean? torah is kept by jews all over the world even today. Also in acts 21, its says that the followers of jesus were zealous for the law. everyone was following torah. The old testament is very clear that the law is eternal
@thebibleastronaut your question is based upon a falsehood so it is hard to answer. we are instructed to keep torah at all times even in exile. the prophets talk about this all the time. you're way out in left field on this one. karaites and orthodox only disagree on the oral tradition not torah. both karaites and orthodox keep the law all the time including when israel is divided.
@thebibleastronaut im saying the falsehood is your claim that you can't obey torah while the country is divided, that is false. jews for their entire history of followed torah no matter whats going on.
@thebibleastronaut when my wife and I got married, we were together. From time to time, one of us travels for one reason or another. I guess this is my new out under those circumstances, "since our marriage vows were given while we were together, its impossible for me to fulfill them when we are apart. What? just ask thebibleastronaut!"
@thebibleastronaut this kid thinks that he is going to run around naked eaten herbs and chasing women...get out of here, he doesn't understand anything, don't mind him, he's a fool, clearly
@ServantYahweh Tzedekyahu is a Orthodox Jew and is a Zionist. They hate you Black Hebrews. So whats your point trying to act as if your defeating Sirius. Youre ignorant and you reject prophecy.
@moddie84 babel astro nut is trying to take one of my teachings, that the sabbath cannot be kept on a land that is not our own, or outside of the promised land.
He is trying to stretch that truth and say all the the Torah is void and invalid, witch is not true.
@moddie84 don't listen to the babble astro not's lies, he's a stealer of the words of Prophet. he doesn't have a clue what is preparing to take place upon him, because of his great things he says against the Most High.
He wants to be saved by Jesus, but then tear Jesus down, and have his fantasy messiah,...some stranger in the first century, the year when the heathen changed the time
@thebibleastronaut "@ServantYahweh Oh yes he does. Again you don't read the Bible at all read John 1;21-27. Who comes after John? Clearly if you read Malachi 4;5 you would know. So contine your slurs all you want. You do not understand prophecy or truth. You cant even identify the real messiah in the Gospels. Clearly if the church are against God would that not distort the Gospels to hide somthing true in them?"
Jesus had already stated that John lied about his identity
@thebibleastronaut is a snitch."@tzedekyahu Read Daniel 12;13 who is it talking about?" dumbass if you read the whole book of Daniel instead of trying to cheat for the test, it was the angel, that said that to him. Daniel asked for the interpretation and he recieved more than he could take. Daniel kept opening the book and the angel kept closing it. 12:13 he would die before they'd open the rest of the vision for him.
Proverbs 21:18
"the wicked is an atonement (atonement defined as, the act of, the act of atoning for sin or wrongdoing) for the righteous; and the faithless come in the place of the upright" (the faithless are those new to the things of God)
jjr505 3 months ago
Proverbs 11:8
The righteous is delivered out of trouble, and the wicked cometh in his stead.
My interpretation is righteous are delivered and wicked take the place of those who are unrighteous. It doesn't say the wicked delivered the righteous.
Proverbs 21:12The righteous man wisely considereth the house of the wicked: but God overthroweth the wicked for their wickedness. (God didn't replace wicked with wickedness.)
jjr505 3 months ago
John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Ephesians 2:8,9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast.
stathisterios 4 months ago
thanks for making these tapes! I have been using them to help me better tell my Messianic friends why I no longer can accept Y'shu.
KingOystar 4 months ago
Interesting that the word here "Atonement" is everywhere else, in ALL sources I have checked, "Ransom" That makes a BIG DIFFERENCE. Let's entertain the idea that the wicked ARE an Atonement for forgiveness of the reader's Sins.
Pro 17:15 He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD
The wicked are what justifies you, a sinner? How does it fit with the requirement of a perfect lamb? Why not slay swine then? U have a problem!
RM77MKII 5 months ago
what i understand is that we are naturally unclean and to be one with a pure being, as far as how it is laid out in the "OT", we need a an animal sacrifice (recall the holy-of holy's which we couldn't enter w/o having shed blood) so by way of his sacrifice, the messiah made a way to unite us back with the Holy one...
childofYah4evaeva 7 months ago
as far as making the sacrifice of a humble spirit before offering up something.. amayn to that. its true. even the messiah states we should get ourselves right w/ men before going to "the temple to offer" up to the Father.
childofYah4evaeva 7 months ago
Q: what kinds of offerings are these verses in Lev. referring to? As I understand it, the "once and for all," "blood" offering which the messiah of the scriptures paid was parallel to the 1yr old unblemished animal (lamb?) that is used on Yom ha kippureem/kippur/Day of Atonement.
I'll have to review to see about the goat(?) which was used to take the sins and was sent off into the wilderness -whether it was/not w/ blemish ...
childofYah4evaeva 7 months ago
i absoultly love this im not sure becuse i am a christian and what i understand is god is loving and kind to all he has made in his holy words
zenali238 9 months ago
i absoultly love this
zenali238 9 months ago
@blackisraelite9 its about israel.
yomamasofat87 10 months ago
@yomamasofat87 as you said I did expose the folly of this fool, so bless me you again
ServantYahweh 10 months ago
The one not able to offer a blood sacrifice still lays the offering on the BLOOD of the alter. Secondly how can in God's justice equate the death of a lamb, doves, or grain to His Holiness? That would be an infinite injustice and lower infinitely the value of G-d's Holiness. He is not going to sacrifice His Holiness and Justice for the sake of His Love and Forgiveness by the death of something He created, both must be perfectly upheld. Prov. 17:15
ronathanedwards 11 months ago
@blackisraelite9 Israel. The surrounding chapters demonstrate that when the Israelites harden their hearts God hands them over to their enemies. Then when they learn their lesson He delivers them. With this knowledge they help guide the gentile nations, etc, etc.
The word "seed" used in the passage does not refer to metaphorical descendants, but physical ones. Last I checked, Jesus did not have children and Christians are not descendant from those children.
ElfenL1ed 1 year ago
@ElfenL1ed exactly
moddie84 11 months ago
"I am sought of [them that] asked not [for me]; I am found of [them that] sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation [that] was not called by my name."
Isaiah 65:1
And God said, "Let US make man in our image." One God, manifest in 3 persons.
The name of God is Jesus. We come to the Father through Jesus the Son. Jehovah Shammah the Lord is there. He really is. I've encountered him and I've heard his voice. The same God who spoke to Moses, spoke to me. Jesus is Lord, I am sure.
biblethink 1 year ago
@biblethink all i have to say to that is Jeremiah 23 and just replace L-RD with YHWH the proper name of the elohyim of Y'srael.
selah ve shalom.
yomamasofat87 10 months ago
@yomamasofat87 Yes, Jer. 23:5-6 Messianic prophecy fulfilled in Christ alone. The rest dealt with lying prophets. But remember, in Jeremiah's day, people considered him to be a false prophet and only he knew the truth. It was a tough message, just as tough as to tell the Jews that Jesus is the Messiah today and they need to surrender to him.
Isaiah 7:14: "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel." cont..
biblethink 10 months ago
cont... this verse in Isaiah only makes sense if the Hebrew word for virgin is interpreted as virgin. For young maids get married all the time. But it would be a great sign for G-d is a virgin were to conceive.
"And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13
I know this verse is true from experience. I sought him will all my heart and found him and his name is Jesus. You cannot reject Jesus and still go to Heaven. Impossible...Cont...
biblethink 10 months ago
cont...to reject the Son is to reject the Father.
biblethink 10 months ago
cont...also, to reject the Son is to reject the Father and that is why your prayers are not being heard.
You cannot come to God by OT methods. That's over. Animal sacrifices have ceased right after Christ's crucifixion, not a coincidence, you can only come to God on His Terms and His Terms are that you come through Jesus Christ. This is the message you need to bring to your Jewish brethren, if you are up for it.
biblethink 10 months ago
@biblethink Jeremiah's message: surrender to King Nebuchadnezzar and you will live. Fight against him and you will die.
God's message today. Surrender to Jesus Christ and you will live. Fight against him and you will die.
Jeremiah's message was treasonous back then. Yet is was, Thus saith the Lord. Many Jews today think it is treasonous to believe in Christ, yet God has his remnant who do as He always has, check out Jews for Jesus.
biblethink 10 months ago
@biblethink but you guys think that the whole OT is based on messianic prophecy, no jesus did not fulfill the prophets he tried to but he died. we cannot count on one man to save the whole world jesus isn't superman, in the tanakh it says that moshiakh will be an ordinary man, so how could jesus be this moshiakh if he was half man half god? that doesn't make any sense. let me explain to you Isaiah 7:14 its talking about Israel that because the jews among us so is hashem. egypt bore israel.
yomamasofat87 10 months ago
@yomamasofat87 Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and[ will call him Immanuel."
This is pretty straightforward. I don't understand what you were trying to say, egypt bore israel? Prophecy deals with the future not the past. Israel was already free from Egyptian bondage at this point.
Anyway a virgin conceiving is a sign from the Lord, just as Sarah conceiving at appox. 100. This is how the Lord works, in the miraculous.
biblethink 10 months ago
@biblethink don't you know that King David was a Christ? and Aaron and Isaiah ect. there were many christs! Cezar was christ also...so y do u say the christ. jesus could never be king anyways because he is a descendant of Jechoniah.
yomamasofat87 10 months ago
@yomamasofat87 If you google Jesus a descendant of Jechoniah you will come across an informative article by Jews for Jesus explaining this in detail. They give references in scripture and the Talmud. They show how the phrase, "in his lifetime," means in his lifetime. etc. so to say that Jesus could not be King on David's throne is not true, just as to say that Abraham could not have children at age 100. With G-d all things are possible. This is not a contradiction but a misinterpretation.
biblethink 10 months ago
@biblethink i know exactly what jews for jews for jesus are...their called fake jews. im a noachide for judaism. i have carefully studied these texts and have done my research on it. there is no way you can convince me otherwise. how do you prove jesus to be 100% man 100% god and the name jesus to be holier than that of hashem? christianity is a new age religion with many flaws just as the new testament.
yomamasofat87 10 months ago
@yomamasofat87 "Record this man as if childless, a man who will not prosper in his lifetime, for none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule any more in Judah.""
But G_d acknowledges his son and grandson here. How is that?
'On that day,' declares the LORD Almighty, 'I will take you, my servant Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel,' declares the LORD, 'and I will make you like my signet ring, for I have chosen you,' declares the LORD Almighty."
-- Haggai 2:23
biblethink 10 months ago
@biblethink anyone who sits as king must be descended from King Solomon not descended from King Jeconiah. the curse is binding, because after Jeconiah was deposed, instead of the throne being handed to his son, it passed to Zedekiah, his uncle. No descendant of Jeconiah ever held the throne, or ever can hold the throne. His grandson, Zerubbabel, held power granted by G-d, but was never king.
yomamasofat87 10 months ago
@yomamasofat87 "His grandson, Zerubbabel, held power granted by G-d, but was never king. "
Why was his grandson allow to hold power, ei rule as governor of Judah when the curse CLEARLY says, "none will sit on the throne of David or rule any more in Judah," I want to emphasize, "or rule any more in Judah"?
Why wasn't this part of the curse enforced? matter of fact, he was quite honored to be called G-d's signet ring. Do you have an answer why this part of the curse didn't seem to go to far?
biblethink 10 months ago
@biblethink 1 Chronicles 22:9 does it say he was king over judah?
yomamasofat87 10 months ago
@yomamasofat87 "His grandson, Zerubbabel, held power granted by G-d, but was never king. "
Why was his grandson allow to hold power, ei rule as governor of Judah when the curse CLEARLY says, "none will sit on the throne of David or rule any more in Judah," I want to emphasize, "or rule any more in Judah"?
Why wasn't this part of the curse enforced? matter of fact, he was quite honored to be called G-d's signet ring. Do you have an answer why this part of the curse didn't seem to go to far?
biblethink 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@yomamasofat87 "His grandson, Zerubbabel, held power granted by G-d, but was never king. "
Why was his grandson allow to hold power, ei rule as governor of Judah when the curse CLEARLY says, "none will sit on the throne of David or rule any more in Judah," I want to emphasize, "or rule any more in Judah"?
Why wasn't this part of the curse enforced? matter of fact, he was quite honored to be called G-d's signet ring. Do you have an answer why this part of the curse didn't
biblethink 10 months ago
@biblethink jesus couldnt be king anyways because he wasn't born from a human father suposedly...don't you know that kingship is passed thruough the fathers line not the mothers? even if joseph was the real father of jesus it was josephs line that was cursed.
yomamasofat87 10 months ago
@yomamasofat87 "kingship is passed thruough the fathers line "
How did it pass from Saul to David?
biblethink 10 months ago
@biblethink the royal lineage goes from father to son always.
yomamasofat87 10 months ago
@yomamasofat87 Er, David was not the son of Saul, he was the son of Jesse.
biblethink 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@yomamasofat87 "i have carefully studied these texts and have done my research on it."
Then you should be able to answer these two questions.
1. If the curse was perpetual and it says, "for none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule any more in Judah."
Why was Zerubbabel RULING as governor of Judah as recorded in Haggai 1:1???
2. see my previous comment.
Looking forward to your reply.
biblethink 10 months ago
Comment removed
ServantYahweh 1 year ago
anyways i gotta go get on with my life. but when john creates world peace, regathers israel, has everyone obey the laws of the torah, and brings everyone to know G_d, give me a call then i might believe what you're saying
moddie84 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut no John does not make the claim to be a forerunner of Elijah. Jesus said that, you stupid animal.
And an other thing, if you read your gospel it says clearly that John made a statement that he was not Elijah nor Prophet. So there you go, stealing the words of prophets again and applying them to your idle shepherd who let you get eaten by the wolves.
You Naked Bronze Snake From Ham
ServantYahweh 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut dont' decieve them into thinking you read the Talmud...when you told me on the phone that it was Satan's Talmud.
For someone who has never owned a Talmud, that's a hell of alot to say with such little intelligence
ServantYahweh 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
WE do not need religion to tell us murder is wrong. Insert next paragraph down
party489 1 year ago
"For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt", "And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt"
monjerusalem1972 1 year ago
Exodus 12, which you didn't take into considerations, tells us what atonement is, how atonement is made, and who shall be the means of the atonement "Take a lamb", "a male", "without blemish" (=without sin), "kill it in the evening", " take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses"
monjerusalem1972 1 year ago
@monjerusalem1972 the paschal lamb was not a sin offering.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
Are you reading in Hebrew? When you speak it doesn't sound like Hebrew, but rather like Arabic
monjerusalem1972 1 year ago
IT is scary to think that we do not have devine intervention and that no one is probably watching over us caring. How ever that is what truly seems to be real. there is no caring god, there seems to be no god that cares about anyone. I know that sucks but that is reality. Its even sadder to see my own race realing on dark age books for reality that have been proving wrong again and again. lets all give a blood offering and hope we are right just like our unknowing ansestors
party489 1 year ago
@party489 why does it bother you so much for somebody to be a religious believer?
just trying to understand the motives behind your continual incendiary trolling here.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu People can easily find justification for almost anything they want and say it is gOD giving them permission or wants things a certain way. I would love to see societies based upon and look up to reasoning, facts, and what the human thought process can do if we come together with as few things holding us back from progress I feel we can achieve without thoughtless rulers and dictatorships, Religion plays a large part in the way people are willing to vote and sway their minds.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 continually, you confuse religious beliefs and people, with christians, or radical muslims. radical muslims are a minority, many of the violent ones simply use their religion as an excuse for their atrocities, in the same way that socialist/communist russia (which was based in an utter lack of religion BTW) used their non-religious "more advanced logic based" thinking to murder millions.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
The truth may not always comfort but it always has its basis in facts and probability.
party489 1 year ago
Hey, where is the second part of this video?
melbourneopera 1 year ago
why do u need Jesus? because in the Old Testament all of the sacrifices require clean sacrifices, without blemish.. we sinned against God, everyone, and when someone bears God's wrath they are paying the punishment for their own sins. it can't be that they are being punished for other peoples sins as well. That why we need Jesus. He became sin who knew no sin that we might become His rightousness. I know those verses that u mentioned, but u mustve taken them out of context. u dont think so?
HenrikAlexM 1 year ago
@HenrikAlexM no, in fact he put them in context. did you watch the video?
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@HenrikAlexM well see the thing is there was certain sacrifices for different things.
according to Torah jesus couldn't have been a sin offering because he would have had to been female.....according to Numbers 6:14There he is to present his offerings to the LORD: a year-old male lamb without defect for a burnt offering, a year-old ewe lamb without defect for a sin offering, a ram without defect for a fellowship offering,
yomamasofat87 1 year ago
also....the second part......makes no sense what so ever, be more specific.
yomamasofat87 1 year ago
how can some of my fellow species still believe such insanely silly and just stupid myths that are obviously fiction. Its just so sad that so many people talk to themselves and have imaginary friends. Muslums christians all and any religion how do the sheep not doubt the books they follow.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 in a world such as this, is it not sheepish to not believe as well? people who don't believe in a higher power always seem to think that anyone who does simply follows without question. as someone who has been there, I can tell you that it is foolish reasoning.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu no what reason and obvious proof is there to believe any god had someone pen a book for the rest of us to follow without question. The position for anything is it is not true or exist until proper reason is shown to believe that it does. You do not find it hard to believe that a true god would tell just one guy all this stuff and really expect everyone to believe it with no real evidence. There are thousands of gods that have no justification for belief and aLLAH is just anouther 1
party489 1 year ago
@party489 you didn't answer my question, you just turned it around to being about your agenda. thats ok, I'm used to that from christians, and atheists both. it is a fallacy that all religious believers believe blindly. that is the point of my statement, and my question was very simple.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu I find it has been the atheist and agnostics who appear to ask the most questions and want more than blindly following. Most of the believers do follow blindly and just believe with no or little true reasoning behind it. Thats what faith is. Faith is pretty much blindly following.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 there are theist agnostics too, who believe in a higher power but are skeptics and strugglers. faith is largely a function of christianity, and since christians make up the majority in most societies, the brush of stereotype that paints them, also spills over the line to cover others. the central prayer in judaism says "shema yisroel, adnai elhnu, adnai echad". "hear you who wrestles with G-d," yisroel means one who wrestles with G-d. without skepticism, I think belief is empty.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu Here is the answer to your ?. No it is not sheepish to not believe. I did answer your question in my response. It is the first two letters. NO. It is foolish to believe anything as fact without good reason. And yes of course some people who do not believe thinks a lot of the people who follow does with out question or with out enough questions. How can you see someone who belivies the BS and not wonder how much they question the silly stories that I can find no one can find proof of
party489 1 year ago
@party489 I have known many who identify themselves as atheist who are simply following others into that, without even ever considering things honestly. one doesn't have to believe in any holy scripture to not be atheist. i think that isnt thought of most of the time. people think of it all as so cut and dry. for jews, torah is about what we believe our ancestors relationship with G-d was like, and we honor that. for us, its kind of like reading the constitution, or history books. kinda...
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu Most atheist have considered more and questioned far more then the believers who are willing to blindly follow. And for the jews who believe in the OT when did god say that became irrelevant? I do not see them killing people who work on the sabbith or blood sacrifes. When did god say to the jews hey this stuff is only relavant for so many years because although I said it and everything is true forever the more civilized humans get the crazier it will seem so pick and choose.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 I think its a false argument to state that most atheists have considered more and questioned more than believers...but when you add the caveat at the end of the sentence, well, thats why they call it blind faith. I don't really consider blind faith to be genuine. the argument about not killing people on the sabbath, or offering sacrifices is likewise a fallacy based on lack of correct info, and instead being pumped with the ignorance of an upbringing in a christian culture.no offense
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu What do yo mean lack of info??? It says it right in the silly book. It says how to do it. How is this lack of info the crazy old book says it. Even how and when to kill the animals and people. Ignorance and christian do seem to fit together fairly well though. Most of the atheist and agnostics I know have put a lot more thought in to their beliefs and various religoins than just accepting their parents god as is the case with most believers I know. Believe it Bc we always have.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 one of the problems with modern/christian culture understanding the things that are written, is the attempt to interpret things based on a translation, christian/pagan background, and poor translations. it would take me some time to be able to explain things to you here, because the things are not simply cut and dried as "read, and do exactly what you think it says". there is also a large misunderstanding bred from deliberate ignorance in christian culture, designed to push agenda.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@party489 BTW, I used to say that I admired people who could just have blind faith, because things seemed so much easier for them. for me, the simple belief in a higher power has almost always been easy,everything else is what is difficult.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu Most religions do change as time passes. Yet I no of none whos profits said parts of this book expire after a while and and then you should read some passages differently depending on the times and how insane the writings seem to be. Remind me again of how it says to treat your slaves, Just do not beat them so hard they die that day I believe. And the place of females is not equal to males in most religions, wonder who had the power and wrote most of the books. I am guessing men.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 part of my previous response applies to this comment, sorry for misplacing it. in christianity, they say pretty much exactly that the old arrangements have expired. that is what makes the apostles false prophets in judaism. women have an extremely integral part in judaism, but yes, things are not expressed as equal. then again, cranberry juice and apple juice are quite dissimilar, but mix very well. so too was it recognized that women and men play different roles in life.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu comparing apple and cranberry juice and their roles is not even close to similar to the roles females and males play in muslim cultures. You know women get treated like property and lesser people and it is supported by the silly old book written by a pedophile that heard voices in his head and had some desert dumbasses believe he flew off to heaven on a magic horse to be the only one to give the supremes ones word to the whole world.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 I'm not muslim, and can't speak for islam. all the same, do you have to be so insensitive as to insult and slander their prophet and holy book? that seems awfully prickish to me...just saying.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu I see it as 100% false. something that i see no truth in deserves no respect to a dignified mind. It is no different than believing in harry potter or the cat in the hat. Fiction is fiction. however I have no respect for people who believe in fiction for no reason and hurt my race and our becoming more knowing and fact based. Fck al fiction and the humans that support BS fiction as fact. I am the new agnostic that see no reason in respecting silly human beliefs.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 if not for muslims,and jews,and our"silly fiction"you and your"race" would all be living in the dark ages still.with only self-decided ethical systems,civilization ceases to be.muslims gave us the number 0,advanced mathematics; jews gave us modern medicine,footnotes,accountability,humanity,equal rights,none of which would have existed without our "silly books".what you really should say is that you see no reason to respect anyone unless they agree with you,at least that would be true.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu Easy why do I have a problem with religions and the religious. It is because I see how the beliefs tear my species apart and endanger the world. I got to spend some time in the military and got to see first hand what people are willing to do to each other for reading a silly old man made fiction book just slightly different then their neighbors. The religious pass the BS stories down to their children when they are willing to believe anything some of which I find to be child abuse
party489 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu oh and your silly fiction never gave any race any real info. Independent thinkers did. Not did one of the profits come up with anything in their talks with god. Name one profit of any religion that really came up with something so spectacular he had to be told from god. Did jebus or moohamhead show people about electricity, viruses, advanced medicine, even basic bacteria. No . Religion and the silly books are not required for advanced human thoughts. Religion has held back science.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 hmm...equal/civil rights, courts of law, just penalties, democratic parliament, bankruptcy laws, days of rest, humanitarian ethics, kindness to animals...yup, nothing there. not to mention all of the jewish and muslim physicians and mathematicians that set the european world up for the renaissance by keeping critical symbiotic study alive despite persecution. almost every successful facet of modern society was started in judaism. and yet,I don't even care if you believe in G-d or not
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu Just because someone is of one faith and comes up with very good ideas does not give any validity to that religion. People can do good things with or without being brought up in religion. Who knows how many great thinkers could never say what they really thought about how true the religion of their society was because they knew they would be discriminated against and possibly much more. The fact that religious have done good things does not mean their is any more truth to religion
party489 1 year ago
@party489 I think that part of the problem here, is the intermingling of the modern/western idea of "religion", with what was not a religion for those in the bible. The western idea of religion, is that it's something that somebody goes to be a part of once a week. Judaism-for an observant Jew-is not a religion.It is a way of living ones life spiritually performing those things which we believe the Holy One Blessed be He wants us to do, the way it is desired that we act and relate to others...
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu ...as we believe it was transmitted to our ancestors. Thousands of years of Jewish history, torah study, and community development based upon the direction given in torah, have led to dozens of "modern" rights and liberties that most people don't even realize came from the torah. could they have happened anyway, in their own due time, without this"silly book"? possibly. but the important thing to note is that they hadn't happened before, and then came through it.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu I am act semi-agnostic. I think there is a possibility that there could be a god. However I do not feel any books have been devinly inspired or that we as a society should look at them as fact based ways to live our lives and try to dictate how others should live their lives. Organized religion does just that.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 I think many "believers" are actually agnostics. withing judaism, there is the torah, and rashi. torah is like the instruction manual given to an employee in a company. rashi (talmud, the sages, oral teachings) and an actual teacher to help one understand (not give the answers, but teach how to find them) what the company expects from the employee is necessary to put the instruction manual to use.an employee who loves the company but doesn't know how to do his work is pretty useless
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu I would still love to see an end to everyone believing that any god or someone they told to have ever written any special book. What I would do to erase all the silly beliefs that have no true justification.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 I think that is a cruel shortsighted, and selfish viewpoint. Not only that, but it is very much along the lines of what many religious people would like to see- an end to anyone thinking something different from them. There are some very horrible things that some people have done in the name of their religion, and there are very horrible things some people have done in the name of no religion. Yet, the opposite is true too, with good things coming from religious and secular.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu Just what horrible thing has been done in the NAME of no religion. Dont even try saying communism or North Korea or that BS. Actual crimes people done in the name of no religion. I do not care if people believe and keep it to themselves and not try to use it to influence my life but that is exactly what happens. I could care less what god or gods people prayed to. But if they are going to make their beliefs public they should not cry when they are challenged.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 perhaps "in the name of no religion" was a poor choice of words, since surely people don't claim that their deeds are "in the name of non-religion". There have however, been many horrible things done in the name of moral relativism, and yes, communism is something that ends up going there. Socialist parties have ended up there as well. Is it as bad as the atrocities that christians and fundamentalist muslims (or muslims using islam as an excuse) have done?Yes. As often? Maybe not.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu let me note here too, that not all christians, not all muslims, and not all secular folks behave in these despicable ways. It is IMO a loud minority. The same can be said for communism and socialism- that the concepts are altruistic and humanitarian, but the concept is perverted by the governing powers in application- but these political systems have an even worse track record than religions.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu and they both where not true democratic atheist societies. The where of little difference then being ruled by a crazy monarchy.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 most christians say the same thing about the holy roman church too. I would have to agree with them. In fact, I would have to say that anyone that perpetrates atrocities to humanity or nature in the name of their religion, is really just a pack of liars who are using an accepted norm of justification (accepted perhaps not by you or me, but historically accepted non-the-less). I personally don't like "religion". I don't see judaism as a "religion", because people have a choice...
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu ...in the matter. and choosing against it doesn't get them killed (except for two very dark spots in history, both during the Hasmonean dynasty). It didn't even have a name until after christianity came around. I hate abortion too, on a very fundamental level, but I will fight for a woman to have her right to a safe abortion, because it is her choice, for herself, and the little person growing inside her. I don't think its right, and she should be educated, but isn't my choice.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu You know damn well how violent some religions can be and the fact that they can find justification for it in their books just shows how horrid the books are and need to no longer be thought of as the truth bc you can pretty much find approval for what ever you want to do depending on how you read them. Atheist are always judged by theist this alone is enough to want to destroy false beliefs.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 see, I disagree, and we may have to agree to disagree on this, and that's fine. I don't see it as the religion, or the religious, but the weak minded and hearted few who use it as their excuse. I also think, that if you took the religion away, they'd just find another way to justify their actions, some other book, or ideology. many humans are evil, period. yes, their religion is an easy way for them to "justify" it, but they'd "justify" it a different way without it.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu The problems with the moderates is that they hide and pretty much support some of the crazier ones and makes them feel or even know that their actions are justified by their interpretation of their holy books or one of their holy leaders commands. The lack of an organized religion would take one less thing away to commit crazy acts in the name of and to be discriminated and grouped for. People will judge and treat people differently due to their weird beliefs.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 I don't know so much about hiding and supporting,I think its just the old adage of "bad news sells".watch the news, or most tv shows. there isn't any gudness in programng,because people don't want to watch that.and if there were only disorganized religion,I think there would be even more crazies out there killing and hurting people in the name of their beliefs.especially in a country with freedom of religion,cuz who is to say they're wrong?we know murder is wrong cuz of religion,etc
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu We do not need religion to tell us religion is wrong. It did not take a trip to mt sainia to relize that. Something is true or it is not. It is that simple just admit that religion is utter shit. It is not needed. I am the one saying they are wrong. I do not care if a country respects silly beliefs because I do not. Religion is the bane on society that we should rid ourselves with the minute that it is seen for what it is. There is no reason to respect silly beliefs for society.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 before jewish principles, murder was only wrong if it were a lower member of society murdering an upper member. Stealing could be justified, kidnapping could be justified, there was little history of courts that weren't corrupt (just as in no jewish culture today), sexual immorality (and this isn't a straightforward issue), was allowed and even encouraged. without a higher power, there is no barometer for right and wrong except personally held views;i.e., what is murder? kidnaping?
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu In a modern society there is no reason for the made up beliefs to keep it together. I am not so sure that the jewish principles where the first ones to think murder, stealing and kidnapping where wrong though. True religion did help keep the heathens in line back then and even now. Why would a god let that go on for so long before he gave the jewish their ideas then. It just makes no sense. Why wait so long in human history to put down them laws.
party489 1 year ago
@party489 it is your opinion however, that they are made up beliefs. Is it ok to force your opinion and will on others? it is thought that (according to the biblical stories), the revelations were made in an order according to when those receiving the revelations were willing to accept and able to do them. this is one reason much of christian doctrine doesn't fit, because it effectively contradicts previous agreements, making G-d into a liar. The agreements must be cumulative.basically ...
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu you could say that people werent able to handle the idea of no murder, kidnapping, etc. I asked earlier, but it didn't seem like a question I guess. How do you define murder? kidnapping? Stealing?
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut um...not in the sense of what the word actually means, no.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut messiah comes from the hebrew word moshiach,which means anointed.it refers to one who is anointed with sacred oil,to be set apart from the nation as a spiritual leader (prophet, high priest),or as king.One must be literally anointed with sacred oil,to be a moshiach.it is not smthing that one can claim,or have claimed about him by others.as moddie84 says below,moshiach has nthng to do with whether a person believes in him or not.like the president is factual, not belief based
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut "the day of the L-rd" is when we see what G-d can do, and he regathers all of israel and the dynasty is restored, and there is peace on earth and everyone worships Hashem.
moddie84 1 year ago
@moddie84 I don't understand what your point is. I also don't understand how john was messiah. you people seem to have the view that a person can be messiah simply by others saying he is, this is not true. I think that he actually said in the gospels "I am not him" when john is asked if he is messiah. xtians have contended for ages that john the baptiser WAS elijah. I guess they must not truly be "led by the spirit" in their interpretations? or maybe they're not really xtians?
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu i think you meant to say taht to 'thebibleastronaut'
moddie84 1 year ago
@moddie84 you are correct sir.
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut life happens. based on what the day of the L-rd will be like we know that means before the L_rd comes there will be no temple, the jews will be spread out over the world, there will be no world peace, and the whole world will not be worshipping Hashem.
moddie84 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut i didn't know thats what you were fishing for...so all I said still stands, then elijah will say it's time for the day of the L_rd. not sure how that changes anything i've said lol. when elijah comes let me know. as we know John the baptist clearly states that he is not elijah.
moddie84 1 year ago
@moddie84 and just saying the day of the L_rd is coming, doesn't make someone elijah...I can say it now, doesn't mean i'm a prophet.
moddie84 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut when the jews have all gathered back to israel never to be exiled gain, the temple is rebuilt never to be destroyed again, war is never waged again, the world has a universal knowledge of G_d, and looks to the jews for advice, the sanhedrein is restablished, and all the laws are observed, then we will talk, because that is how the messianic age is defined in the old testament. so until then
moddie84 1 year ago
@moddie84 it looks like we're still waiting
moddie84 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut they are waiting for the return of all of israel, not just the tribe of judah, but also the 10 lost tribes who haven't been seen since the 1st exile. If you read ezekiel and jeremiah they describe that the messiah will reunited all 12 tribes to israel. Not to mention the majority of jews live outside of israel, so by no means has the ingathering taken place.
moddie84 1 year ago
@moddie84 and after jesus, even more people went in to exile and the temple was destroyed. and there have been many persecutions and wars in his name. he accomplished the opposite of what the messiah was supposed to accomplish.
moddie84 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut hahaha i just did. more israelites were exiled, israelites suffered more under the era of christianity than they had before. the temple was destroyed, wars and atrocities have been committed in the name of jesus. those are all opposites of what the messiah was supposed to accomplish
moddie84 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut how can i show you scriptural example of the roman exile of jews from israel, and the destruction of the 2nd temple in 70AD? if you mean that the messiah was supposed to regather israel/world peace etc... then (Ezekiel 37:26-28) (Isaiah 43:5-6) (Isaiah 2:4)(Zechariah 14:9. there are a few thousand more. i suggest reading ezekiel/jeremiah/isaiah. ezekiel 37 onwards is a good place to start
moddie84 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut what you aren't understanding is that according to the old testament, we never have to accept prophets or the messiah, in fact we are only to accept/worship/honor/trust G_d. We are FORBIDDEN to accept/put our faith in man. It is not important who the messiah is, it is ONLY important what that person accomplishes, because it will be a symbol of the fulfillment of our faith that G_d keeps his promises. Elijah and the messiah are in essence irrelevant.
moddie84 1 year ago
@moddie84 according to the bible, the signs of the messianic age will be so great, that the entire world will know what is going on without any doubt. in fact it would be IMPOSSIBLE not to know the messiah had come.
moddie84 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut haha well all the same things still apply. nothing messianic has been accomplished, so you can believe buddah was the messiah. simple fact is, since nothing has been accomplished, the messiah has not come.
moddie84 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut and yet nothing messianic has been accomplished so he must have been a false prophet
moddie84 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut i can claim to be the forerunner of elijah, that doesn't qualify me as anything but a nutbag
moddie84 1 year ago
@moddie84 we already know you're a nutbag ;)
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
@tzedekyahu hahaha thanks :)
moddie84 1 year ago
@moddie84 babel astro not has nothing but nutbags in his room
ServantYahweh 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut my point being, the proof will always be in the pudding. what happens is important, not what someone claims.
moddie84 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut hahaha sorry bud, but unless secretly this guy created world peace, ingathered the 12 tribes, created a universal knowledge of G_d, and built a 3rd temple, without my knowledge, he cannot be the messiah. he fulfilled NOTHING that the promised messiah is to accomplish.
moddie84 1 year ago
@moddie84 like i said, any nut can claim to be anything, and can prophesy in the name of G_d, but if G_d's promises aren't carried out and you believe in him, then you trust in this man more than you trust in G_d.
moddie84 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut hahaha i don't even know what you're talking about. its such a simple concept. the people are irrelevant. what those people accomplish is what truly matters. There is never any discussion that there has to be a 1st century 'messiah' in the bible. in fact the term "The Messiah" is never even used in the old testament. The word moshiach(messiah), refers to any king and high priest. So silly how messianics never seem to realize this. btw im not orthodox
moddie84 1 year ago
@moddie84 moshiach literally means annointed with oil, and in fact israel is called moshiach in the bible.
moddie84 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut i don't understand the question sorry
moddie84 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut haha what do you mean? torah is kept by jews all over the world even today. Also in acts 21, its says that the followers of jesus were zealous for the law. everyone was following torah. The old testament is very clear that the law is eternal
moddie84 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut your question is based upon a falsehood so it is hard to answer. we are instructed to keep torah at all times even in exile. the prophets talk about this all the time. you're way out in left field on this one. karaites and orthodox only disagree on the oral tradition not torah. both karaites and orthodox keep the law all the time including when israel is divided.
moddie84 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut im saying the falsehood is your claim that you can't obey torah while the country is divided, that is false. jews for their entire history of followed torah no matter whats going on.
moddie84 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut when my wife and I got married, we were together. From time to time, one of us travels for one reason or another. I guess this is my new out under those circumstances, "since our marriage vows were given while we were together, its impossible for me to fulfill them when we are apart. What? just ask thebibleastronaut!"
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut this kid thinks that he is going to run around naked eaten herbs and chasing women...get out of here, he doesn't understand anything, don't mind him, he's a fool, clearly
ServantYahweh 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
Comment removed
ServantYahweh 1 year ago
@ServantYahweh Tzedekyahu is a Orthodox Jew and is a Zionist. They hate you Black Hebrews. So whats your point trying to act as if your defeating Sirius. Youre ignorant and you reject prophecy.
beholdtheageofold 1 year ago
Comment removed
ServantYahweh 1 year ago
@ServantYahweh Ive asked you several questions youve ducked. Youre lost and can't see truth to save your life.
beholdtheageofold 1 year ago
@moddie84 babel astro nut is trying to take one of my teachings, that the sabbath cannot be kept on a land that is not our own, or outside of the promised land.
He is trying to stretch that truth and say all the the Torah is void and invalid, witch is not true.
ServantYahweh 1 year ago
@moddie84 don't listen to the babble astro not's lies, he's a stealer of the words of Prophet. he doesn't have a clue what is preparing to take place upon him, because of his great things he says against the Most High.
He wants to be saved by Jesus, but then tear Jesus down, and have his fantasy messiah,...some stranger in the first century, the year when the heathen changed the time
ServantYahweh 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut i don't think he's gonna listen to either of you lol!
tzedekyahu 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut "@ServantYahweh Oh yes he does. Again you don't read the Bible at all read John 1;21-27. Who comes after John? Clearly if you read Malachi 4;5 you would know. So contine your slurs all you want. You do not understand prophecy or truth. You cant even identify the real messiah in the Gospels. Clearly if the church are against God would that not distort the Gospels to hide somthing true in them?"
Jesus had already stated that John lied about his identity
ServantYahweh 1 year ago
@thebibleastronaut is a snitch."@tzedekyahu Read Daniel 12;13 who is it talking about?" dumbass if you read the whole book of Daniel instead of trying to cheat for the test, it was the angel, that said that to him. Daniel asked for the interpretation and he recieved more than he could take. Daniel kept opening the book and the angel kept closing it. 12:13 he would die before they'd open the rest of the vision for him.
ServantYahweh 1 year ago
Comment removed
thebibleastronaut 1 year ago