Im doing a chronological (in order) bible study on December 1st on my website godtogether.webs.com if you see this when its too late it doesnt matter you can still join in..
I will echo the others in saying, well done...line upon line. I expect I will find another of your works that delve deeper into the ultimate destiny of the Church. I believe the minor profits and extra-canon writings to be revealing in this area as well. Biblically, we will be all collected into the air, "with Him in the clouds", as he scorches the face of the planet and the wicked. We will see this with our eyes and tread on the ashes with our feet. The New Jerusalem will then descend onto Zion
@DonWTPHG - Thanks for your comment! I haven't (as yet!?) made a video about the ultimate destiny of the Church, but I have intimated that the Church will reign with Christ after He returns in several of my videos. You are very welcome to view more...
There are layers of meanings in Scripture. We can look at it like this: On the same board we can play chess and checkers, but not at the same time! Each game (truth) stands on it's own and mustn't be mixed with the other or else confusion and disorder arises! :) But if someone tries to play, let's say, ludo (pre-trib doctrine) on the same board - it doesn't work. I think you get the point :)
:) There is a dual concept in the temple imagery. As you point out our bodies are temples of God (collectively we are the temple of God), and there is a literal temple in heaven Rev 14:15&17. I think Jesus and Paul were relating different aspects, though together they reflect both your thinking and mine.
So I trust John 14:2-3 doesn't make you a pre-tribber!? This is a passage widely used to that end, but as you can see, taken completely out of context and looked upon with a preconceived idea.
Jesus said in John 14:2 He would go (die) and enter His Father's house (the heavenly temple) and there prepare a place (by His blood in the holiest place) for His church. Therefore He couldn't have been referring to His own spiritual body the church as the Father's house itself. He didn't prepare the disciples to be dwellings. The dwellings were prepared for the disciples in the Spirit. His coming back to them in John 14 is clearly by the Spirit at Pentecost so they could also dwell in Christ :)
Hi Brother! Another wonderful teaching! One thing I would like to expand on - at 6:52 "you in Me, and I in you" John 14:20. I see subtle, but important differences of the Holy Spirit being: With us, IN us and UPON us. In John 20:22 And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. (day of First Fruits after He is crucified) and in Acts 2:3-4 Holy Spirit is upon them. As I understand it: He gives them His Spirit for Salvation in John 20 and with Power for Service in Acts 2.
Amen and amen! When Jesus said "...I in you..." He was speaking of His own Spirit being in the disciples (the Spirit of Christ who both Paul and Peter wrote of).
In context Jesus said: "On that day you will realize (know)... I am in you." - meaning when the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples on the day of Pentecost empowering them for service, they also received intimate knowledge of the already indwelling Savior who had previously breathed into them His own breath of Resurrection Life.
This I believe relates to the Rev.12 manchild (Christians) that are not defiled with woman (church) being caught up to the throne spiritaully not physically BEFORE Christ returns in Rev. 12, these are not defiled with woman(sects of religion), they follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. Please give me your thoughts, great presentation. God Bless.
Thank you for your comment. As I have stated in the video, I deduct from Scripture that Jesus was talking to the eleven disciples concerning what would happen to them when the Holy Spirit came upon them a few days later. This, of course, applies to all Spirit in-dwelt believers since the time of the first disciples.
I do like your videos and agree except for the part of caught up in the "air"... Air is translated from the greek word "aera" it means the dense air found on the earth. It is used also in Acts 22:23 "And as they cried out, and cast off their clothes, and threw dust into the air, (aera)"... So there is a strong likelyhood that we will meet Him in Jerusalem. God Bless.
Thank you for your appreciation of my videos. The word "aera" occurs also in 1 Thess 4:17: "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the AIR." Notice where in the air - in the CLOUDS. The Greek word denoting "air" is not limited to a few feet above the ground. Yes, as I have said in another video I believe we will meet Him in the air above Jerusalem when He comes to reign on earth.
These things exist in the spiritual realm because this is how God has chosen for us to communicate with him. I dont think Jesus after the crucifixion went up to a heavenly brazen altar and was sacrificed there also.
Thank you so much for your work in Christ and thank you for considering my comments. May you be richly blessed in the power of the Almighty.
Otherwise, could there be a spiritual brazen altar and a water laver in an outer court in the heavenly places other than a representation of Confession unto salvation and water baptism? Could there be a table of show bread, menorah and altar of incense in another place other than representing the Bible, our Prayers and Worship? I dont see scriptural basis for another replica of a mercy seat other than the Holy Place we enter into through worship.
The Bible gives enough evidence to suggest that the brazen altar symbolizes the cross of Christ, and the water laver the Holy Spirit. The show bread and menorah represent Christ, and the alter of incense prayer. The mercy seat points to the finished atoning work of Christ. Therefore the physical items on earth do not mean there have to be literal counterparts in heaven.
To reinforce this; Jesus said in John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. He was standing right in front of them. He was without sin and was literally in the Kingdom of God right before them, he had to go in order to prepare a place for them as well, thus the Vail was rent :)
Foreshadow: The tabernacle represented the kingdom of God today through Christ's sacrifice. Each item in the tabernacle represented a spiritual type of the Kingdom of God today. The house = the Kingdom of God; The Mansions = the place where the Kingdom of God resides = each one of His Children. He inhabits the praises of his people = His House. Not some place where God has always lived.
Even though the typology you propose can be a valid application to certain degree, a careful reading of Hebrews shows that the earthly tabernacle/temple was a copy of the heavenly. Even the book of Revelation shows the temple in heaven, a literal place where angels go in and out.
Great to hear you watched all 12! There are more on the way. Time will tell if I do one on the millennium. Thank you for a very encouraging comment. God bless!
Your clear understanding of the "Father's house" and "mansions" was enlightening. There has been too much "pie in the sky" preaching on the rapture. Looking forward to a sequel on what the rapture is all about. I have a question: Where does the marriage feast of the Lamb and the judgement seat of Christ take place? Jerusalem (as it stands after the great tribulation)?
Thanks! To answer your question: A feast for all peoples is portrayed in Is 25:6 on a mountain identified in 24:23 as Zion, Jerusalem. The setting in chap. 24 is the Great Trib. Paul quotes 25:8 in 1 Cor 15:54 as the resurrection/rapture cf. v.51f. The marriage feast seems therefore to be held at Jerusalem.
The judgement seat in 2 Cor 5:10 has similar wording in Matt 16:27, which again is connected to Christ's throne in Matt 25:31f. According to Jer 3:17 His throne will be set up in Jerusalem.
I do agree with your interpretation. For as you mention the diciples, to whom He spoke, were indeed martyred, and the true church has never escaped tribulation. I discussed the topic last Saturday with someone dedicated to pretrib. I was even less convinced after his argumentation.
Thank you for your comment. John 14:2-3 is a favorite among pretribbers. It just goes to show that all verses they use to argue for their view are taken out of context. The verses I discuss are one example of their albeit unintentional misuse of the Holy Scriptures.
I have never understood how this passage could be intepreted as a PRE-tribulation rapture.Thank you for pointing out 'how' Yahshua prepared a place for us and 'how' He receives us to Himself. The Ephesian verse really pulls things together too.I know we are also 'received to' Yahshua in the air but I don't see how this could ever be intepreted as being caught up 7 years PRIOR to Resurrection Day when Yahshua, Paul, Daniel, Job etc. are clear that the Resurrection must take place FIRST.Good job!
Thanks for your reply. Many pretrib teachers use John 14:2-3 to say that Jesus is preparing mansions in heaven for the believers and when He comes prior to the tribulation He will take all who are ready to heaven at the rapture. I've read this and heard this many times. This erroneous teaching presupposes two resurrections of dead believers, one before and one after the trib. These teachers don't see that the resurrection of the believers is a single event at the last day of this age.
I agree and they do this with zero scripture to back up a resurrection prior to Yahshua's second coming.Paul said there are 3 resurrections: 1)Christ the first fruits 2)then those who are His at His coming and then 3) the end will come when death is defeated.#3 happens after the 1000 years according to Revelation 20so the very next resurrection is at Yahshua's coming and then not again for 1000 years.John even said the FIRST resurrection includes those killed for refusing the Mark of the Beast.
Right on! Pretribbers have a hard time with the post trib resurrection being the FIRST resurrection. They get around it by saying that the pretrib resurrection is the preliminary stage of the first resurrection. Boy, this is really stretching the Scriptures!
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Im doing a chronological (in order) bible study on December 1st on my website godtogether.webs.com if you see this when its too late it doesnt matter you can still join in..
528awesomeness 1 year ago
I will echo the others in saying, well done...line upon line. I expect I will find another of your works that delve deeper into the ultimate destiny of the Church. I believe the minor profits and extra-canon writings to be revealing in this area as well. Biblically, we will be all collected into the air, "with Him in the clouds", as he scorches the face of the planet and the wicked. We will see this with our eyes and tread on the ashes with our feet. The New Jerusalem will then descend onto Zion
DonWTPHG 1 year ago
@DonWTPHG - Thanks for your comment! I haven't (as yet!?) made a video about the ultimate destiny of the Church, but I have intimated that the Church will reign with Christ after He returns in several of my videos. You are very welcome to view more...
arovir 1 year ago
This is very, *very* well done, Brother! Keep it up!
WatchAlan 1 year ago
Very interesting...I appreciated the explanation of "In my Father's house there are many mansions." Going to watch another!...
Jimvesterstallone 1 year ago
Nice job, God bless and keep them coming
proupatriotpapa 2 years ago
Thanks! and God bless you too.
arovir 2 years ago
There are layers of meanings in Scripture. We can look at it like this: On the same board we can play chess and checkers, but not at the same time! Each game (truth) stands on it's own and mustn't be mixed with the other or else confusion and disorder arises! :) But if someone tries to play, let's say, ludo (pre-trib doctrine) on the same board - it doesn't work. I think you get the point :)
arovir 2 years ago
:) There is a dual concept in the temple imagery. As you point out our bodies are temples of God (collectively we are the temple of God), and there is a literal temple in heaven Rev 14:15&17. I think Jesus and Paul were relating different aspects, though together they reflect both your thinking and mine.
So I trust John 14:2-3 doesn't make you a pre-tribber!? This is a passage widely used to that end, but as you can see, taken completely out of context and looked upon with a preconceived idea.
arovir 2 years ago
Jesus said in John 14:2 He would go (die) and enter His Father's house (the heavenly temple) and there prepare a place (by His blood in the holiest place) for His church. Therefore He couldn't have been referring to His own spiritual body the church as the Father's house itself. He didn't prepare the disciples to be dwellings. The dwellings were prepared for the disciples in the Spirit. His coming back to them in John 14 is clearly by the Spirit at Pentecost so they could also dwell in Christ :)
arovir 2 years ago
Hi Brother! Another wonderful teaching! One thing I would like to expand on - at 6:52 "you in Me, and I in you" John 14:20. I see subtle, but important differences of the Holy Spirit being: With us, IN us and UPON us. In John 20:22 And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. (day of First Fruits after He is crucified) and in Acts 2:3-4 Holy Spirit is upon them. As I understand it: He gives them His Spirit for Salvation in John 20 and with Power for Service in Acts 2.
TreyDubzz 2 years ago
Amen and amen! When Jesus said "...I in you..." He was speaking of His own Spirit being in the disciples (the Spirit of Christ who both Paul and Peter wrote of).
In context Jesus said: "On that day you will realize (know)... I am in you." - meaning when the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples on the day of Pentecost empowering them for service, they also received intimate knowledge of the already indwelling Savior who had previously breathed into them His own breath of Resurrection Life.
arovir 2 years ago
This I believe relates to the Rev.12 manchild (Christians) that are not defiled with woman (church) being caught up to the throne spiritaully not physically BEFORE Christ returns in Rev. 12, these are not defiled with woman(sects of religion), they follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. Please give me your thoughts, great presentation. God Bless.
keith19692 2 years ago
Thank you for your comment. As I have stated in the video, I deduct from Scripture that Jesus was talking to the eleven disciples concerning what would happen to them when the Holy Spirit came upon them a few days later. This, of course, applies to all Spirit in-dwelt believers since the time of the first disciples.
arovir 2 years ago
I do like your videos and agree except for the part of caught up in the "air"... Air is translated from the greek word "aera" it means the dense air found on the earth. It is used also in Acts 22:23 "And as they cried out, and cast off their clothes, and threw dust into the air, (aera)"... So there is a strong likelyhood that we will meet Him in Jerusalem. God Bless.
hottamale02 2 years ago
Thank you for your appreciation of my videos. The word "aera" occurs also in 1 Thess 4:17: "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the AIR." Notice where in the air - in the CLOUDS. The Greek word denoting "air" is not limited to a few feet above the ground. Yes, as I have said in another video I believe we will meet Him in the air above Jerusalem when He comes to reign on earth.
arovir 2 years ago
These things exist in the spiritual realm because this is how God has chosen for us to communicate with him. I dont think Jesus after the crucifixion went up to a heavenly brazen altar and was sacrificed there also.
Thank you so much for your work in Christ and thank you for considering my comments. May you be richly blessed in the power of the Almighty.
Dale
squacher 2 years ago
No, Jesus was certainly not sacrificed on a heavenly brazen altar.
According the Bible "spiritual" does not mean "non-physical". There is a physical heaven just a Jesus had a physical body.
Thank you for your benediction, and God bless you too!
arovir 2 years ago
Otherwise, could there be a spiritual brazen altar and a water laver in an outer court in the heavenly places other than a representation of Confession unto salvation and water baptism? Could there be a table of show bread, menorah and altar of incense in another place other than representing the Bible, our Prayers and Worship? I dont see scriptural basis for another replica of a mercy seat other than the Holy Place we enter into through worship.
squacher 2 years ago
The Bible gives enough evidence to suggest that the brazen altar symbolizes the cross of Christ, and the water laver the Holy Spirit. The show bread and menorah represent Christ, and the alter of incense prayer. The mercy seat points to the finished atoning work of Christ. Therefore the physical items on earth do not mean there have to be literal counterparts in heaven.
arovir 2 years ago
To reinforce this; Jesus said in John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. He was standing right in front of them. He was without sin and was literally in the Kingdom of God right before them, he had to go in order to prepare a place for them as well, thus the Vail was rent :)
squacher 2 years ago
The gospels make it very clear that Jesus' "going" = dying.
arovir 2 years ago
Foreshadow: The tabernacle represented the kingdom of God today through Christ's sacrifice. Each item in the tabernacle represented a spiritual type of the Kingdom of God today. The house = the Kingdom of God; The Mansions = the place where the Kingdom of God resides = each one of His Children. He inhabits the praises of his people = His House. Not some place where God has always lived.
squacher 2 years ago
Even though the typology you propose can be a valid application to certain degree, a careful reading of Hebrews shows that the earthly tabernacle/temple was a copy of the heavenly. Even the book of Revelation shows the temple in heaven, a literal place where angels go in and out.
arovir 2 years ago
Great to hear you watched all 12! There are more on the way. Time will tell if I do one on the millennium. Thank you for a very encouraging comment. God bless!
arovir 2 years ago
hi arovir! thanks for the comment! subscribed!
god bless you!
0doubt 2 years ago
Thanks, and happy viewing! God bless you too!
arovir 2 years ago
Excellent teaching brother! Keep up the good work for the Glory of God and Jesus!
vc133, 5*s! God Bless you.
InHISWord2 2 years ago 2
Thank you for your kind and encouraging words! The Lord bless you too!
arovir 2 years ago
Your clear understanding of the "Father's house" and "mansions" was enlightening. There has been too much "pie in the sky" preaching on the rapture. Looking forward to a sequel on what the rapture is all about. I have a question: Where does the marriage feast of the Lamb and the judgement seat of Christ take place? Jerusalem (as it stands after the great tribulation)?
michaellarsadams 3 years ago
Thanks! To answer your question: A feast for all peoples is portrayed in Is 25:6 on a mountain identified in 24:23 as Zion, Jerusalem. The setting in chap. 24 is the Great Trib. Paul quotes 25:8 in 1 Cor 15:54 as the resurrection/rapture cf. v.51f. The marriage feast seems therefore to be held at Jerusalem.
The judgement seat in 2 Cor 5:10 has similar wording in Matt 16:27, which again is connected to Christ's throne in Matt 25:31f. According to Jer 3:17 His throne will be set up in Jerusalem.
arovir 3 years ago
I do agree with your interpretation. For as you mention the diciples, to whom He spoke, were indeed martyred, and the true church has never escaped tribulation. I discussed the topic last Saturday with someone dedicated to pretrib. I was even less convinced after his argumentation.
Keep up the good work, brother.
Rabbisartora
rabbisartora 3 years ago
Thank you for your comment. John 14:2-3 is a favorite among pretribbers. It just goes to show that all verses they use to argue for their view are taken out of context. The verses I discuss are one example of their albeit unintentional misuse of the Holy Scriptures.
arovir 3 years ago
I have never understood how this passage could be intepreted as a PRE-tribulation rapture.Thank you for pointing out 'how' Yahshua prepared a place for us and 'how' He receives us to Himself. The Ephesian verse really pulls things together too.I know we are also 'received to' Yahshua in the air but I don't see how this could ever be intepreted as being caught up 7 years PRIOR to Resurrection Day when Yahshua, Paul, Daniel, Job etc. are clear that the Resurrection must take place FIRST.Good job!
boltingpuppies 3 years ago
Thanks for your reply. Many pretrib teachers use John 14:2-3 to say that Jesus is preparing mansions in heaven for the believers and when He comes prior to the tribulation He will take all who are ready to heaven at the rapture. I've read this and heard this many times. This erroneous teaching presupposes two resurrections of dead believers, one before and one after the trib. These teachers don't see that the resurrection of the believers is a single event at the last day of this age.
arovir 3 years ago
I agree and they do this with zero scripture to back up a resurrection prior to Yahshua's second coming.Paul said there are 3 resurrections: 1)Christ the first fruits 2)then those who are His at His coming and then 3) the end will come when death is defeated.#3 happens after the 1000 years according to Revelation 20so the very next resurrection is at Yahshua's coming and then not again for 1000 years.John even said the FIRST resurrection includes those killed for refusing the Mark of the Beast.
boltingpuppies 3 years ago 2
Right on! Pretribbers have a hard time with the post trib resurrection being the FIRST resurrection. They get around it by saying that the pretrib resurrection is the preliminary stage of the first resurrection. Boy, this is really stretching the Scriptures!
arovir 3 years ago
I enjoyed your video! I believe your perception of the passage is correct.
rinseoff 3 years ago
Thanks! Good to hear your positive feedback.
arovir 3 years ago