11/28/07 Republican Debate-Torture

[BearDoctor93]

Romney looks like a waffle because he wont take positions on such things, and McCain makes himself look like an ignorant old dude. Wikileaks happened man. There are overwhelming facts that those prisoners were tortured and he knows it. Really McCain is just playing on the american spirit that says america is perfect and we never do anything messed up. Well... Guantanamo bay is a product of the times that resulted from majoritarian politics and its an abomination to this country.

[BearDoctor93]

For those of you who feel that torturing suspected terrorists to attain, for the most part, false confessions and information, you are inhumane. When 600 out of roughly 750 (most of whom gave false confessions and info) prisoners are released after several years of imprisonment because of their undeniable innocence it doesn't take a genius to realize that Guantanamo is a waste of resources, and a violation to the morals of our constitution. Furthermore McCain is naive for what he said.

[Yeldarb4]

For anyone who wants to pretend that the United States should torture because the terrorsists have no problem in torturing should remember one thing, becoming evil to defeat evil means that evil still wins. USA should never torture because it is a better country and people than that.

[gamefreak1000000]

What a shmuck. Terrorists torture U.S soldiers, so we need to torture those animals to get whatever info they are hiding. Then, we exterminate them. It's that easy. Since when are terrorists considered "humans?" It's a shame that Obama banned waterboarding because if I ever get my hands on Obama, I would "waterboard" him.

[8peregrint8]

Mr Romney would you allow using the rack, brazen bulls and flailing?

"well I wouldn't want to define torture" hahahahah wtf is wrong with these people has america lost its goddamn mind and soul?

[Benjabob2012]

Answer the damn question.

[MinisterAilingTongue]

This remains useful...Romney! McCain was right about water boarding being torture. Romney's weak excuse on why not to reveal our methods is contradicted by our laws and international laws as McCain pointed out.

[tranceemerson]

Romney, the terrorists already know about water boarding you idiot

[EGarrett01]

John McCain looked and sounded like a US President here.

[Willredd94]

Yay, McCain epic win.

[mtldemon6]

Why in God's name couldn't McCain have been like this during the actual election?!?! He could have been the first Republican candidate I'd have ever supported in my life!

[bluesmann8]

fake drama

[ivankaman21]

Mccain's a liberal moron. ROMNEY 2012!

[binstig]

McCain is hardly liberal.

[Politicrafty]

This is why McCain beat Romney.  Fuck Republicans for torture.

[Politicrafty]

Republicans now seem to want to protect torturers. So do moderates.

[deraickripper]

mccain for candidate!!

the others are even worst

[greenbottleblues]

I don't think Romney's position is even coherent here. How can one oppose torture in any substantive way while refusing to define what torture is? I imagine lots of people have pointed out that torture carries a negative connotation, so the trick for any candidate supporting torture is to define away the scope of practices generally covered by the term. However, I wish someone would have said something like this in the debate.

[LardMonkey6]

I agree with McCain!!! If we allow any law enforcement or military official to torture, then we have broken laws!! The whole idea of torturing someone not convicted is wrong!!!!!Every suspect or P.O.W. is "innocent until proven guilty."

[Carly8Corday]

That's tellin him, fillsbury. All the "bright" people are Republicans, as anyone who looks around can PLAINLY see! LMAO.

[speakmymind01]

what an absolute utter damn joke McCain is.

This guy will go out of his way to backstab Republicans

[bemoreunique]

WOW, what the fuck is wrong with you. I don't normally personally insult people, but thank God that this disgusting man has dropped out of the race. Romney CLEARLY supports torture if he evaded a question about waterboarding, so you would be supporting torture if you voted for him. Research and statistics have shown that getting information with torture is NOT effective or accurate and that there are better methods. COMMON SENSE should tell you the same thing.

[bemoreunique]

Furthermore, since when did TORTURE become included as part of the Republican agenda? And not torturing people means that people are hippies and liberals? I was always under the impression that AMERICANS DO NOT TORTURE.

[bemoreunique]

Excuse me. I was always under the impression that Americans SHOULD NOT torture. Because Guantanamo Bay is obviously evidence that we do.

[element13131]

Your right. Let's make a list of everything we will and will not do and hand that over to the enemy. He doesn't support torture and you'd have to be at least partially retarded to think otherwise. All he is saying is that he will take the advice of other people who know more on this subject than him, and not define exactly what America is and is not willing to do.

[XpelPropaganda]

Better yet, let the Geneva Conventions make that list. Why be vague. Romney is a fascist and so is element13131.

Why be mean? Are you forgetting the blank definition in the Patriot Act for what is a terrorist? Are you forgetting no one accused of that can even defend himself and prove that Bush or the government makes mistakes which it did practically 100% of the time with Iraq at least?

[element131x]

Maybe you should look up the word Fascist before you try to stick it on Republicans, you'll probably realize that "stringent social and economic control, and a strong, centralized government" are closer to the agenda of Democrats than Republicans.

But yeah, they are televising beheadings of our citizens, let's get mad that Romney won't say what exactly he considers torture. Note that he's not saying something is NOT torture, he's just saying it's not the enemy's place to know our policies.

[XpelPropaganda]

No you are wrong! You don't have to have social control and an ideal situation to be a fascist. You have to be a fascist at heart. That's why the Patriot Act is communist and nazi security principle. All talk of punishing "detainees" and taking their rights hides the fact that on paper any American can be arbitrarily declared one and then given no ability to prove that the government makes errors. The Geneva Conventions lists what we can not do to detainees! The argument is moot!

[XpelPropaganda]

The Constitution is an open system of justice. That way even Presidents can, on paper suffer imprisonment or death for crimes. NOT SO with the Patriot Act. Its very wording says that gov't leaders are all-powerful dictators if even more no-fly-zones materialize!

[element131x]

When did this become an argument about the Patriot Act? I never said I was for it. I'm saying that the U.S. should not have to declare exactly what we will and will not do. If we're going to talk Geneva convention, lets not forget article 4.1.2 of the 3rd Geneva convention, which declares that the protection only applies to those who "conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war", & "having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance." Your argument is moot.

[XpelPropaganda]

When did this become an argument the United States has to change and attack defeated countries? She has to attack other countries to protect innocent lives and then take much more lives like the Communists and Nazis did? That she has to punish anyone anyway she pleases without anyone being able to prove she has made a mistake? Has she made any?

I'm not for your priestcraft. There are problems now that weren't there before. One of them is destroying all but Osama Bin Laden.

[XpelPropaganda]

If you can see WMDs that weren't there, then you won't be able ot see torture that is there. If you shed the blood of hundreds of thousands of innocents and can't blush, naturally you're going to have problems with the American Constitution. If you act as if terrorists were born yesterday after 2001 and act as if they're so fierce they can't even interrupt your golf games, then you're in a conspiracy.

[XpelPropaganda]

The Patriot Act endangers the lives and well-being of everyone by the words EXCEPT TREASONOUS GOVERNMENT LEADERS. It has a crucial component of terrorism in it called, INJUSTICE!

If you're a liar on the internet, then it is not scheduled to harm you.

[element131x]

Oh my gosh. Take a deep breath. Calm down. Read what I wrote. I am not for the Patriot Act. I never said we should go to Iraq. All I'm saying is that the U.S. has no responsibility to tell it's enemies what they are or are not willing to do. They know about the Geneva convention. That's as far as it needs to go. And seriously, look up words before you use them. Priestcraft? Really? But, I'm not going to apologize for what America has done. WMD's werent there, but Saddam Hussein was.

[ahmad3652]

@element13131 actually this is something romney should be pushed to define torture because this can extend to American citizens suppose you are detained for murder you didnot do but the police officer was certain you did it now so water boards . Did he just commit torture?

[element131x]

@ahmad3652 omfg why are you responding to a comment made over a year ago? But to address the one new point you did raise - In 1983, Texas sheriff James Parker was sentenced to ten years in prison and his deputies to four years apiece for waterboarding prisoners. SO yeah, anyone, including terrorists, can easily find out what is and is not legal for us to do. Romney is saying he won't make it easier for them to find out, let them be scared of getting caught, maybe it will be a deterrent,

[ahmad3652]

@element131x then you have come around to the same problem what if the captive is not a terrorist what if he and because he does not know the legal procedures condemns himself by induring torture. This causes you two problems. 1.you may create new enemies of people (and their family) who otherwise would have been opposed to the terrorists2. you donot know anything new and the terrorists are still out there so you are making trouble for your self and yes terror suspects should have rights

[element131x]

@ahmad3652 seriously I'm done debating this. This is from over a year ago, you raise no new points and are ignoring what I am saying.

[ahmad3652]

@element131x donot become what you are fighting or else you will loose support your camp's support is near nil now 

[element131x]

My "camp" has more support than it ever has. You just need to read what I am actually saying and stop acting like I am condoning torture.

[Carly8Corday]

Enjoy losing the White House and most of your congressional seats, speakmymind, because 70% of the human race in the United States of America considers you, and those like you, to be sociopaths and monsters. Bet your Maker can hardly wait to meet you face-to-face and hear what you have to say.

[ghostfacekillah1919]

are you fucking kidding me?

[Carnacki]

Romney a Good Businessman, but Leadership for out Military?

McCain Owns the Guy!

[coffeeintheface]

Whatever your views on waterboarding terrorists are, it's clear here that Romney got owned beyond belief, and is another flaky sidestepping politician.

[vashthestampede11]

I was going to vote for McCain in the Primary. He lost my vote due to his response to this question. Romney 08!

[bemoreunique]

oh! so you didn't vote for him because you want the U.S. to torture. nice! i wonder, is it painful when water goes up your nose in the shower or in the pool? think of that pain times a hundred. mccain was tortured for over five years as a POW. I would shut the fuck up if I were you.

[vashthestampede11]

Hhmmm...making people who blow up women and children, behead and rape women and children think they're drowning. Where's the problem?

[theinfamous3344]

your whats wrong

[lynnopoly]

What's wrong is that it starts there, then the lines start to get fuzzy, then they use that fear of torture against us. The Natzi's did it in the 30-40, Musalini's black shirts did it, and Stalin's men did it to the people to repress democracy of the people.

[lynnopoly]

forghive my typing, i'm drunk:P

[bemoreunique]

what's wrong is that AMERICANS DON'T TORTURE people. it's clear that even Romney realizes that. and what's wrong is that we randomly suspend the right of habeas corpus so that we don't even KNOW if those are the people who have committed crimes against the U.S. and... you do realize that they are using these tactics to get information, and not for punishment?

[shawnkimble1]

The answer is Money.

[expatted]

Good for you McCain, but Bush and Cheney, with Alberto Gonzales, already gave the green light for the US to torture, and you do. So now your country is SCUM.

[mejdrich]

Moments like this make me wish McCain hadn't stumbled so badly at the start of the campaign. He's one of the few Republicans ALL Americans could be proud of.

[followerofbasho]

McCain message is right on. We as Americans must take the high ground. This is a defining issue about what America is about. It is clear that different people have different opinions about this - Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld and it seems Romney disrespect the Geneva conventions rules that were set up not only to protect the military of foreign nations- but our soldiers too. By disrespecting the Geneva convention- you are disrespecting OUR SOLDIERS AND PUTTING THEM AT GREATER RISK.

[jaseman816]

Romney's response is so ridiculously evasive. "Is waterboarding torture?" "Don't want to say our methods." Well, how far do you carry that? Governor, is sticking a hot screwdriver in someone's eye torture?" "Can't say" Ridiculously evasive.

[expatted]

It's cuz he's an asshole. He's an emtpy suit. I certainly hope no one is stupid enough to vote for that idiot.