...and im glad to say that i can live my life knowing the god i see when i look in a mirror, is far more moral than the murdering, torturing, subjective shitfest that lives in the sky. but of course, even most theists can say that...they're just too afraid to admit it.
God is less moral then Satan in my opinion, God killed 2 million people and Satan killed 10. Also you should return lost money(example) because its the right thing to do and humans know it, not because you think you deserve something in return.
If you threaten a mass murderer with torture if he kills people, and he then stops, that doesn't give him morals, that just makes him stop killing people. Potentially, every christian could be a murdering psychopath, they are just holding back for the fear of hell.
@darthelghastN7 - Dont generalize it so much, Christian people would not be true to the written word if they did not try their hardest to follow Gods law. That is just one example, it all depends on how true you are to the word of God and how well you understand it, or in other religous text the word of Allah, Jahovah, and so on. If you do something against the laws of God without caring then you cannot call yourself true to your faith.
@MrDankenstein151 - Acctually when I was an Atheist and tried to be a good person it was hard as heck to do anything that was good for people because I had the wrong perspective on things. I'm not saying that its impossible because it surely isnt. I in no way was even TALKING about atheists being incapable of being good peoplel. I was talking about not putting a lable on Christians if you even read what I said. Your wrong and that is fine that I am not a good person out of fear.
@MrDankenstein151 - I have no fear of dambnation whatsoever so in that statement you are absolutely wrong. I try to be as good as I can because I care about other people and I care about the world around me. That in NO way is out of fear and I will say now that do not lable Christians as all being afraid of hell and thats why we are good people because that is in no way true. I have been on both sides of the specturm, Atheism and Christianity and it has nothing to do with fear.
@Nidair - I don't steal because of many reasons such as getting into trouble, if I steal from someone who earned it then I took more than just a material thing because they worked for it and now they dont dont feel they can trust people as much anymore because of that, and the most important thing is that I just dont need or want to steal anything because material things dont mean anything to me.
@Thenewfallingsacred That sounds familiar, apart from the meaninglessness of material things. I am glad you do not get your morality from the bible.
This is one part of human innate morality - dependency. Phil described self-reflection. Other than that, we also have empathy - you care about other people because the community has a better chance of survival than the individual. That was the origin of empathy, and that is what we still have today.
Without God, one lacks reasonable/stable foundation for morals to be constructed on.
I don't have morals, what you speak of is "The Human Condition" and it's perfectly normal. I dislike being disliked due to the initial displeasure of hatred, to prevent myself from being disliked, I control my actions to suit my future preferences.
We can't call these morals for they are not absolute, I call them behaviours.
Consciousness and mental states are functions not things. you cant go to the store and by consciousness.
Like digestion, without the stomach, digestions doesn't exist. same with the brain. eternal states only happen when a physical organ is living. when a computer turns off the software is gone.
Its what tells you when you see somehting whether you should eat it, mate with it, drink it etc.
How about because they are the only decent people in a society who believes they can each individually dictate their own demise and plan parties for after death, and that knowledge makes them different from creationists and therefore, marvelous in their own right, having resisted the most perverted device ever conceived. Thank you.
be happy that u have the holy spirit and found God inside you. would have had trouble with the papal or baptist god as well. Now u know were god really is you can try to built bridges instead of burning them
Morals and ethics are not based on religion, but on common grounds of being humans and the way we should treat each other that benefits us all in the best way, which is ofcourse with respect and decency.
Religion is reponsible for tremendous amounts of disgusting things, so it's funny and ironic to hear religious people talk about how non-believers don't have any morals, it just supports the argument on how religion wants to hate and do more war with people for not believing their stupid shit.
Heres the thing: Empathy is physically programmed into the brain, and is the foundation of all moral grounding. The ability to link other's emotions and physical pain to neuropeptide productions is present in all humans (and most great apes).
For an all powerful god to demand that mankind follow his moral code to avoid eternal agony is nothing short of psychopathic. There are many who argue that monotheistic God is a theological manifestation of the supergo, say many.
True atheists don't have Moral or Ethics. Unless you are too ignorant to read Nietzsche and are just an ordinary non believer. btw Hitler was christian.
Brains are something most of the humans HAVE but don't USE. we atheists chose to USE our brains and THINK about the world, not just follow blindly like a sheep to the slaughter house. i'm atheist and i care MORE for my fellow humans than before when i blindly followed. Christan reading this, i an MORE humane than you and actually follow FACTS instead of myths.
So you know most of the greatest philosophers all believed in some form of religion. Some of the greatest scientists also believed in Religion albiet were tarnished because the Vatican decides to play politics instead of keeping the faith as it continues to do so today. Half I agree with what you are saying but the other half is blindly lashing out. The real problem is we have people who are religious to used their Brains a gift God gave them. (talking about the meta gift)
crap let me rephrase the last line, that are not using their brands, but instead are believing in a 1000 year old propaganda book used to keep the ignorant in line because of the real truths were locked to those who had money. I mean I'm catholic but I view the Bible as nothing more then one big giant storytelling book about the record. I still would like to see the 300+ gospels associated with Jesus but due to politics those will never be shared with the world.
Haven't boiled a bunny? Never wanted to? Me neither!
On the other hand...
Some christians beat their child to death the other day, and felt perfectly justified in doing so because, "it's in the bible." She was the lucky one, the other 9 are still alive in that hell.
i believe in god but my brother doesnt. does it matter? HELL NO!!! i love atheist/agnostic people just as much as everybody else. i feel the radical christians make the rest of us look bad. please treat people with kindness instead of bashing them everybody. thank you.
@MrDatbrownboy You're right, the radical Christians do make you look bad. It is in fact crazy dogma, and not religion, that I'm against. Especially when it's used to call immoral things such as bigotry, a virtue. I also don't like it used to say: "we've got the truth, we should be in charge". Then there's admonitions to distrust one's own mind if it conflicts with scripture. If a non-believer makes sense, it's the power of the devil. This stuff is too dangerous to be met with kindness.
Religion is IMMORAL. Religion is an evil cult that has convinced people that we all are born with "sins" on our "souls" and deserve to be tortured forever for "finite crimes."
How can atheists have morals? EASY! One little word can change the world. It's called...PEACE! Also being able to get along cooperatively with one another is our moral foundation.
I'd like to think that this is a reasonable basis for my morality, and it is, but what is my basis for condemning the actions of other people that I deem immoral? Why do I have the right to judge other people's actions?
Oh the orgies are the best part of being an Atheist. Of course you need to include some animals in there too, and some satanic blood rituals and blood drinking... OBV :p.
This is the first I've seen of yours where you talk to camera, and it's much better when you do. Wow. The man in the mirror. Brilliant. Thanks.
I have broken the necks of 2 rabbits. My dog mauled 1 and I found my cat showing her kittens how to hunt by slowly killing another. I put them out of their misery. It was one of the toughest things I've ever done, being a townie. So as an atheist I faced that disgusting act, forced myself, out of compassion for a dumb animal.
Mankind's closest cousins have morals. They need neither a mirror nor a god. By living in a close knit society, they have developed empathy.
The big problem with Theistic "morals" is that they do not exist in one single unambiguous source. In other words no Theist can visibly demonstrate a definitive moral code to anyone let alone convince them it is the one true moral code.
I wonder if anyone will be foolish enough to say "Ah but we have the 10 commandments" (actually there are 14).
@TheFlames376 That rhymed. There is good and bad because what you make of it is either good or bad. Some of us might consider something good and others the same thing as bad but most of us will consider some things as bad and some things as good. We cant escape the fact that love exist. and anyone harming the people we love will be considered bad and likely to suffer the consequences.
Christian morality is commensurate not to what we know, but rather that which we abide by biblically. Being a Christian does not constitute morality or the bearing of its fruit unless & until we live obediently. Morals in regard to atheism must, and can, only be based upon one's own ego due to the fact that the only set standard is that which is as variable as each & every atheist's prime commitment to his or her own set of values, whereas Christianity has as its basis a biblical set of creeds.
When you pulled out that mirror, it was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. It was like, something I've known since I've been young, but I couldn't put so eloquently or concretely..... Thank you
Nobody has 'morals'. Morality is an abstract term people apply to behaviours and beliefs. Believing that it is right to allow women to vote for example isn't the same as saying that women ought to have the vote. Equally valuing human life is a personal value, one most people agree with, but a personal one nonetheless. There is no supreme set of values by which we can judge our 'morality'. So religious people and atheists are equally moral in that there are no morals.
Great words, it is a great rant in regards to blind faith and organized religions. I only ask him this... what is in the mirror? You? What are you? What is consciousness? No one knows. How can you be so certain of uncertainty? Nobody really knows either way. To take a cold hard stance either side is egoic and silly. Atheist or theist, both are wrong... there is no right... we don't know...
Its rather simple... if there is no God, then then good and evil become irrelevant. If there is no God, then does it really matter if I kill someone? Does it matter if I rape or steal or murder? Of course it does not... why? Because I decide what is right and wrong, if God does not exist. Without a divine being to tell me the difference, I can slit the throat of the maker of this video and not feel the slightest guilt...
I'ld argue that a REAL theist (and thus a fundie following his religious law to the letter) is incapable of morality.
The essence of morality considering the possible consequences of a certain action. And that can only be done through rational reasoning and analysis of those consequences. You need to measure pro's and con's before you can decide about what is moral. Fundies blindly follow 2000 year old rules. They don't reason. It's all white and black. The exact opposite of morality.
Why would not an atheist have morals? In fact atheistic morals are more genuine, since they do good out of compassion for the fellow being (not just humans by the way) rather than fear of retaliation from an imagined supernatural.
It is the hijacking of morals by religion that has doctrines of just war, and who in fact have started more wars because of what they believe in than for any other reason, that is morally repugnant to me as an atheist.
now that i have your attention. did you know that the foo fighters last 3 albums were written about what i have discovered. i am not lying. honest. dont believe me? go to "what about tafe" and find my 3 comments and theory. you may have to press "see all" once there. again i say i am not lying. you wont be disappointed. regards from burnie tasmania.
Look at it this way..atheists have no gods to kill and destroy for. Body bombs, wishing death on gay people, picketing soliders' funerals or bombing subways and driving planes into buildings are "lovely" ways to show affection for the deity of choice. I have no problem with anyone who is a moderate believer or is compassionate to others or tolerant. But i feel insulted when I am accused of immorality because I do not follow a doctrine of faith. So then I eat some chocolate and hide
You know just the other day I was talking to a fellow atheist over a game of 'stab the prostitute' and the topic of morals came up. We both agreed how absurd it was to say that only people who believe in god can have morals. I for one always donate the organs of babies I eat to medical research. How can that be classed as immoral!?
@Keijikrall seriously, people do not give atheists credit for how hard it can really be. i mean i like to wake up every day to a nice cold glass of newborn babies' blood, and that shit is reaalllyyy hard to come by.
@Hilbilly655321 Newborn babies blood is getting pricey on the Godless heathen market of Immoral monsters.
Is it just me who finds this both funny but disturbing to type about myself? x.x I mean, fuck, it's fun to poke holes in this type of argument, make fun of it, but shit, even I'd freak out if I saw this out of context.
@Keijikrall umm, real atheists are disturbed by nothing because we believe in nothing. maybe a few more years in the atheist academy would help you out. lol i only think it's disturbing because i'd bet a lot of fundies and crazies would think that it was true.
@number1sun, "god" thinks it's acceptable? Or do irrational men from approximately 2000-5000 years ago? Anyone who seriously thinks slavery is acceptable needs their heads examined.
@number1sun Not only does the god of the bible think slavery is acceptable... he even gives us rules on how to do it. Seriously. Read the OT. I think it's totally ironic that bible-freaks in the US are the people yapping about games like Grand Theft Auto... The attrocities found in the bible don't even compare...
You'ld have to watch some kind of gore-splatter-zombie-porn movie with midgets to get the same kind of graphic content.
On the other hand, do christians (or any religious person) NOT boil bunnies or have orgies with nazis because they have a big invisible giant to say not to? I"ve seen a lot more hateful christians (and saved messages from them as proof) than I've seen hateful athiests.
Some theist have said the only reason they don't kill, steal, rape, etc... is because of god and if he didn't exist there would be no reason to follow any of these laws. These people really think we're the ones who owe THEM an explanation as to how we can be moral when they admit they only follow these rules out of fear of being caught? I'm proud to say that fear of hell is not what makes me do right by my fellow humans. I do it for its own sake and it also gives me a little pleasure.
About the morals subject, well, what's the best source, human reason in a civilized and modern age filled with knowledge or a book written by primitive men thousands of years ago that accepts slavery, homophoby, depreciating women, stoning unbelievers and rape?
It's interesting how people can make use of intellectual dishonesty when defending something that they know isn't based on reason but mere imagination, everything to defend their comfortable beliefs, but beliefs are beliefs, not knows.
I was all packed to bring intellectual ass kicking but I see you are not just another ignorant, disinformed religious person that unfortunately learned to use a computer.
I don't tolerate ignorant people, these people making claims like "Evolution is a lie", they will selectively hear anything that reinforces their comfortable idea of eternal life and irresponsibility (after all, they can just have their sins forgiven for a nice price).
@PorkFrog Well that may be the case but it still does have impact on society, doesn't it?
I see the idea of eternal life and hell for example as very dangerous, it seems you can go to heaven just for believing/accepting the existence of a being when you don't have evidence to reinforce such belief, this if I haven't been misinformed myself.
I see it as religion offers easy explanations for our natural inquiries and comfort, at the cost of reinforcing some people's tendencies to ignorance.
What you've come up here is as amazing as the Picture of Dorian Gray.
Theists do have a Picture of Dorian Gray, hiding in their secret locked room, away from everybody, away from themselves. Day by day they look themselves in the mirror and see that their actions haven't scarred their faces.
I don't have that luxury, and neither do you. We don't have a picture that looks old and stained of evil. We don't pretend the world is black and white, we don't look for those deserving of hell.
@muker123 Err, that wouldn't solve the problem. "Crushing all religions" would just cause more war. People have the right to believe in what they believe in -- it's those who try to force it on others that are the problem.
I find this interesting because though I am a Christian, my morals are developed in much the same way. As you said: if a Christian steals, he should have the reassurance that God will forgive him later, correct? And although that's technically true, I'm not a big fan of that 'reassurance' -- because I need to like what I see in the mirror, as well. I do what is 'right' because it feels right, not because God will judge me if I do the 'wrong' thing.
Empathy is the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. Whether we are an atheist or a believer we all have the ability to empathize. In fact, Jesus even said the the two greatest commandments were 1) to love God with all your heart and soul and 2) to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. So even a Christian should be able to agree that empathy forms a very good basis on which to build morality.
I dn't need to be threatened with hell or bribed with heaven to do the right thing. i dn't know about christians but i think that not being a douche-bag is reason enough to not do bad things.
You are doing the same thing that few theists do. You are taking the radical few as a representation of everyone. While some people do believe that atheists are bunny boilers without morals, many theists just accept atheists. Same thing with atheists. Some are bunny boilers, but the vast majority are not.
How can atheists have morals? Answer: Because they are think human beings and have brains like everyone else. We are moral despite any god and religion not because of those impostors.
I (may as well be) an atheist because I can't believe. Every time I looked at being religious, I felt this massive disconnect from what was happening/being taught. I lacked the belief on both a critical and emotional level.
i'm atheist and i acknowledge that i have no morals. because morals are only how we interpret actions according to our perspective. i don't say something is wrong or right, because i don't need to. in 100 years, people will judge us for what we did. just as we judge people who lived in the past. 'morality' constantly changes. when living in the moment, you just have to act based on what you know about consequences of your actions. morality is irrelevant.
i don't think that reading the bible has anything to do with being moral. i think that it means you make good decisions, that's all. religion doesn't mean much at all. atheism isn't a death sentence or anything bad, and i'm sad that it has such a bad stigma in the US.
To believe or not to believe in a deity is not a choice. Belief is not something you can switch on and off - if this is what you BELIEVE you are doing, you probably have some doubts about your religion. Atheists do not choose not to believe in God or choose to follow reason. The absence of belief is simply something reason leads us to. However, a religious individual CAN choose not to question the nature of their beliefs, thus never being bothered by logic or reason. True atheism is irreversible
Atheists are immoral because they don't believe in absolute truth, whereas religious people do. However, unfortunately, religious people can't agree on what it is.
I was a christan but one of my friends had me try being atheist for a day, far more relaxing, far more easier, alot more relaxing. But before I was atheist or learned my friend was athiest and was the nicest guy I know.
I wish I could get a moment to talk to Phil for just a moment.
I've having a very difficult time right now with nihilistic thinking. I've lost all my passion for science, gardening, video games, cooking, kayaking... just the things that used to make me happy. Simply because they all seem to be meaningless and avoiding the truth (nihilism, nothing matters).
All I have left now is a small shred of will to live. I will not commit suicide, or ever harm anyone... but for now, I suffer. I need help.
i dont take there word in my hart bekoze they only wont to insolt us they are verry ruud en inhumane sow dont worry about what they say about atheism we now beter and we will spraed de peace atheisme is the future
The real question is how can chickens have nuggets....you ever thought of that? i mean, i dont know where McD's gets their chickens, but it must be from somewhere around Chernobyl
Stroking bunnies affectionately? No worries phil, you may not be a bunny-boiler, but bunny-buggering is just as fine. You can have your atheist card back.
theism doesn't imply that it's impossible for atheists to have morals. rather, the fact that atheists have morals (largely in line with theists) points, logically, to a the existence of some higher being that imprinted those morals upon all people.
@sp759 Have you heard about something called evolution? Our behavior has been shaped by this selective force. Why do chimpanzees don't kill each other? Why do they care about other chimpanzees? Did god imprinted moral values in them to? But then why not imprint them in lions (they eat the babies of other lions :S)? Most theist think hell is an acceptable punishment. While here on earth, torture is illegal under any circumstance, at least in modern societies, so no one agrees with Christianity.
@MrDubidubidubidu If evolution has the capacity to move humanity toward ultimate morality, doesn't that imply intelligence? And if this 'force' is intelligent, isn't that essentially theism? Why do some animals kill their young & some not? I don't know. Microevolution within a species is an observable proven theory, that could explain it. But ultimately I must defer to Job 38-41. I understand how eternal punishment seems unfair, but really it's heaven that's more unfathomable in Christianity.
@sp759 What? where did I say that evolution drove us to ultimate morality? There are just some behaviors caused by some genes that are beneficial in certain circumstances. In societies like ours or the chimpanzees collaboration is essential, for the lion, its beneficial to kill babies of other lions, thats why these genes are passed on.
I'm not saying that its fair or unfair, I just stated that if in our world torture is not accepted, but its a main part of christianity. Are you chrisitian?
@MrDubidubidubidu You said 'selective force,' which seemed to me to imply intent, but I guess I misunderstood. If it's just a genetic abnormality, is it really morality or just beneficial preferences? If it's just what's more beneficial, then is murder or rape or bunny boiling really immoral or just contrary to what's beneficial? Torture is not a main part of Christianity but hell is an unfortunate byproduct of rebellion against God. And yes, I am.
@sp759 We evolved to find all those things repugnant, and that is called moral. So you think I deserve to be tortured eternally right? What have I done wrong? I guide myself by logic, and logic goes against the christian god or any book god, so why do I have to be punished? Even worse, hell isnt a real punishment because we use punishment to correct peoples behavior but since hell is eternal, I will learn nothing from it. How can u accept torture as a byproduct when here in earth its unnecessary
@MrDubidubidubidu Repugnant as people may find it, how can it be a universal, objective morality? Wouldn't it be subjective & cultural? Cannibalism has been practiced by societies in the past century. Are they just less evolved? If so, is it really immoral? I believe everyone deserves hell because of our rebellious sin nature, but by God's grace, some are saved through Christ. Logic has led me to understand that God and Jesus are more reasonable than the alternative (which I used to believe).
@sp759 Its not a universal objective morality! Christians have been raping and killing for centuries, so clearly the mentality that christians have today is not the same as 5 centuries ago. Cannibalism just proves my point, in parts of the world where there was hunger and where less developed culturally it was ok to eat the enemies and their religions were based around that. Clearly its not logic that brought you to that conclusion cause then the most intelligent people would believe too.
@MrDubidubidubidu If morality isn't a fixed reality, no one has ever done anything wrong because they only have to justify their actions to themselves. And by that logic, a punitive legal system is punishing people for being less-evolved. That doesn't seem right... Raping and killing has never been a part of Christianity, but has resulted from corrupt government and religious leadership. Einstein fudged his work because it pointed to a creator. Everything coming from nothing is not logical.
@sp759 Nope that is not true, morals evolved because we live in a society, so morals are shared by a number of people. If you harm the society you are excluded, this happens in exactly the same way in chimpanzees, and probably in a lot more species. I suggest to you to read the old testament. I recall passages were god ordered the masacre of an entire city except girls so they could be raped.
Wrong, Einstein got results that contradicted hes beliefs so he discarded them and then was proved wrong
@MrDubidubidubidu Your reasoning on this morality structure based on nothing but social norms isn't logical. If morals aren't immutable but just arbitrary constructs based on the shared idea of a number of people, that's just mob (even if it’s a peaceful one) rule. And by that logic, there is no objective right and wrong and all laws are just because the leaders are either elected or are strong enough to stay in power on the backs of the citizens. Either way, it's totally ethical by that logic.
@MrDubidubidubidu Nixon said, if the president does it, it's not illegal. Not true for presidents, but true for God. After years of fighting against God because I didn't want to submit to His authority, I realized I was wrong. The Holy Spirit convicted me and logic, reason, science and sound theology have pointed out the error in my former thought processes. I don't look at the difficult parts of the Old Testament and say, "wow, that seems like something I want to do!" ...
@MrDubidubidubidu Rather, I know God is sovereign and in light of that, I may not understand His reasoning for things but I know that I am not His judge and He is just and holy. I know it seems counter-intuitive because I've been on your side of this debate. But regardless, some specific instances do not establish norms. God didn't call for the eradication of nations at the whim of the rulers, but in specific circumstances ordained by Him. Did God order rape, probably not...
@MrDubidubidubidu He extended grace by giving some the opportunity to live with His chosen people, and as such have the opportunity to turn from their sinful ways toward Himself. But this is a much bigger theological discussion than this forum allows for.
The point with Einstein is, his conclusions made him uncomfortable because an expanding universe implies a beginning and a beginning implies a beginner. Him and many other scientists see the evidence for God daily in everything for the order...
@MrDubidubidubidu of the universe to the coding of genes. They choose not to believe because the pride of a large portion of the scientific community doesn't like the implication of admitting to and subsequently submitting to a creator. To credit nature with creating nature is like saying my wife will birth her own mother. It's not logical!
The foundation this type of "logic" sits on is shaky. It implies that true right and wrong don't exist and unpleasant conclusions can simply be discarded.
@MrDubidubidubidu And now, as engaging as this has been, your heart doesn't seem to be in a place to accept the ultimate truth of Jesus & I have a busy weekend with 3 papers to write so I'm going to call this one... but I pray you'll get there. There, just did it. Thankfully changing hearts isn't my job, I'm just called to speak the truth. I sincerely pray (as absurd as you may find it) that your eyes will be open to the truth and that you'll stay safe and healthy until that day. Peace, brah.
phil, i am a believer , though its a shame that atheists are so misunderstood.
i am doing studies AND TRYING TO LEARN ABOUT atheists AND THEIR WAY OF THINKING, very interesting, and i get alot of good points of view, from differant atheist peoples, there are a few of us believers that do except and lov all kinds of peoples, so we agree to disagree,,, we all have the choice to CHOOSE,
@FAELYNNWOLFF "...we all have the choice to CHOOSE."
As long as you think atheism is a "choice" you will never understand. I mean you no disrespect. I'm trying to help you see what theists consistently fail to grasp (or SAY they fail to grasp). Theists say atheism is a "choice" so consistently. Is theism a "choice"?
NO, you are not disrespecting me, .. though your reply baffles me, how can it not be a "choice" are you saying that you were born this way, and you have no choice,? sure you do, you choose to not believe in yahweh, god, right ? as i choose to believe , and you do not,
okay phil , explain to me further, i just dont get it as you state above, aahhh help me, phil. : )
tell me how you see this as not a choice. thank you very kindly ..
@philhellenes "Do you 'choose' to believe the Earth orbits the Sun? Is that a choice?"
Yes! Maybe you're getting it now. We build our beliefs on evidence. We have REASONS for believing... whereas we do not for holding a faith. That is the difference between faith and belief. I believe the sun will come up in the morning based on past evidence and experience.
An atheist does not hold a belief in god because they have seen no real evidence to support it.
@philhellenes Well, no, but that's different. Because the earth orbiting the sun is a fact. The concept of god is open to debate. This is why we choose to either believe or not believe. Similar in a way that in typical debate, you choose for or against something. Same thing. So yes, we choose.
@AnImmortalEra When someone has a lot of conviction that there is no god simply by using common sense and observing the abundance of facts out there, yes, it becomes a stretch to "force" yourself to believe in a higher being. Do you choose to believe Santa Claus, and the Tooth Fairy are real? Can you say it with conviction?
@arizonaresident1 No because I know for an actual fact that those are man made and made up. The concept of god stretches so far back in time that the origin is nebulous and thus cannot really be historically disproven by saying that some certain guy started it all. So some people can say that they believe in a god with conviction
There's scientific proof for the earth orbiting the sun so yeah, I do choose to believe that. But until someone comes up to me and gives me real proof to the existence of God, I think it's my right to "choose" what to believe and what not to believe.
I went to mostly christian schools for the first 11 years of my life, and during that time nobody ever told me that there was even the slight possibility that goid did not exist. But despite this I never believed a word they said about god and the creation of the universe.
It was not a choice, just an instinctive reation to something that I found silly.
You cannot choose to know something, it just happens.
jesus is a cunt
lousaffire 1 week ago
jesus is a cunt
lousaffire 1 week ago
I think its time to stop defending the morality of atheists , and start showing really how religious people are immoral
mideastatheist 2 weeks ago
@godisall1088912 So... morality flows from the barrel of a holy book?
voidcadet 3 weeks ago
pigdog xD
KaiTendo174 4 weeks ago
morality is caused by the evolutionary requirement of it, if we didn't have them the human race would die out.
doombybbr 1 month ago
Nice! It's strange that people think this.
lonanarcheya 2 months ago
...and im glad to say that i can live my life knowing the god i see when i look in a mirror, is far more moral than the murdering, torturing, subjective shitfest that lives in the sky. but of course, even most theists can say that...they're just too afraid to admit it.
brennanyama 2 months ago
God is less moral then Satan in my opinion, God killed 2 million people and Satan killed 10. Also you should return lost money(example) because its the right thing to do and humans know it, not because you think you deserve something in return.
btw "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" is a joke
NinjaSpartanThe 3 months ago
OK, so in your eyes atheist morality means that you want to respect yourself in the morning. I can respect that.
uktransplantedyank 3 months ago
If you threaten a mass murderer with torture if he kills people, and he then stops, that doesn't give him morals, that just makes him stop killing people. Potentially, every christian could be a murdering psychopath, they are just holding back for the fear of hell.
Hvalfisk 3 months ago
"Belief is a moral act for which the believer is to be held responsible". -- Lillian Hellman
yeshuahfullofit 3 months ago
Religious people dont need morals. They just say God told them to do it.
TheMikedomann 4 months ago
It must suck to fear everything and base your life on religions that are unproven fairy tails!
bumpnuglies 4 months ago 2
@darthelghastN7 - Dont generalize it so much, Christian people would not be true to the written word if they did not try their hardest to follow Gods law. That is just one example, it all depends on how true you are to the word of God and how well you understand it, or in other religous text the word of Allah, Jahovah, and so on. If you do something against the laws of God without caring then you cannot call yourself true to your faith.
Thenewfallingsacred 4 months ago
@Thenewfallingsacred
You dont have to have faith to be a good person.
They aren't gods laws they are mans laws. Do on to others and be a good person
You're a good person because you fear damnation, whereas im a good person without obligation. simply because its common sense to be a good human.
MrDankenstein151 4 months ago
@MrDankenstein151 - Acctually when I was an Atheist and tried to be a good person it was hard as heck to do anything that was good for people because I had the wrong perspective on things. I'm not saying that its impossible because it surely isnt. I in no way was even TALKING about atheists being incapable of being good peoplel. I was talking about not putting a lable on Christians if you even read what I said. Your wrong and that is fine that I am not a good person out of fear.
Thenewfallingsacred 4 months ago
@MrDankenstein151 - I have no fear of dambnation whatsoever so in that statement you are absolutely wrong. I try to be as good as I can because I care about other people and I care about the world around me. That in NO way is out of fear and I will say now that do not lable Christians as all being afraid of hell and thats why we are good people because that is in no way true. I have been on both sides of the specturm, Atheism and Christianity and it has nothing to do with fear.
Thenewfallingsacred 4 months ago
@Thenewfallingsacred Then what is the reason why you are not stealing everything you can steal?
Nidair 4 months ago
@Nidair - I don't steal because of many reasons such as getting into trouble, if I steal from someone who earned it then I took more than just a material thing because they worked for it and now they dont dont feel they can trust people as much anymore because of that, and the most important thing is that I just dont need or want to steal anything because material things dont mean anything to me.
Thenewfallingsacred 4 months ago
@Thenewfallingsacred That sounds familiar, apart from the meaninglessness of material things. I am glad you do not get your morality from the bible.
This is one part of human innate morality - dependency. Phil described self-reflection. Other than that, we also have empathy - you care about other people because the community has a better chance of survival than the individual. That was the origin of empathy, and that is what we still have today.
Nidair 4 months ago
morality (beneficial human interaction) predates every religion.
greenarcher180 4 months ago
Without God, one lacks reasonable/stable foundation for morals to be constructed on.
I don't have morals, what you speak of is "The Human Condition" and it's perfectly normal. I dislike being disliked due to the initial displeasure of hatred, to prevent myself from being disliked, I control my actions to suit my future preferences.
We can't call these morals for they are not absolute, I call them behaviours.
MorkaGraven 4 months ago
@MorkaGraven
It is a function.
Consciousness and mental states are functions not things. you cant go to the store and by consciousness.
Like digestion, without the stomach, digestions doesn't exist. same with the brain. eternal states only happen when a physical organ is living. when a computer turns off the software is gone.
Its what tells you when you see somehting whether you should eat it, mate with it, drink it etc.
MrDankenstein151 4 months ago
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QasimAnwar135 4 months ago
Love you man, much respect - this is so spot on :)
MeepcOOkies 4 months ago
How about because they are the only decent people in a society who believes they can each individually dictate their own demise and plan parties for after death, and that knowledge makes them different from creationists and therefore, marvelous in their own right, having resisted the most perverted device ever conceived. Thank you.
doncourtreporter 4 months ago
lol, religion.
NukedWaffle 4 months ago 3
be happy that u have the holy spirit and found God inside you. would have had trouble with the papal or baptist god as well. Now u know were god really is you can try to built bridges instead of burning them
peace
fourteatwo 5 months ago
hitler was christian so maybe if your religious your more likey to commit genocide, thats somthin to think about, also nazis are christian ;)
MegaGayCunt 5 months ago
Morals and ethics are not based on religion, but on common grounds of being humans and the way we should treat each other that benefits us all in the best way, which is ofcourse with respect and decency.
Religion is reponsible for tremendous amounts of disgusting things, so it's funny and ironic to hear religious people talk about how non-believers don't have any morals, it just supports the argument on how religion wants to hate and do more war with people for not believing their stupid shit.
Andreazor 5 months ago
hmmm... so atheists dont have morals...
USA atheist population, 10% atheists
USA prison population, 0,4% atheists.
we have to stop them before its too late!!!!
OmfgItsHenu 5 months ago
Heres the thing: Empathy is physically programmed into the brain, and is the foundation of all moral grounding. The ability to link other's emotions and physical pain to neuropeptide productions is present in all humans (and most great apes).
For an all powerful god to demand that mankind follow his moral code to avoid eternal agony is nothing short of psychopathic. There are many who argue that monotheistic God is a theological manifestation of the supergo, say many.
I strongly disagree.
hheintze1 5 months ago
True atheists don't have Moral or Ethics. Unless you are too ignorant to read Nietzsche and are just an ordinary non believer. btw Hitler was christian.
69Techno69pt 5 months ago
Brains are something most of the humans HAVE but don't USE. we atheists chose to USE our brains and THINK about the world, not just follow blindly like a sheep to the slaughter house. i'm atheist and i care MORE for my fellow humans than before when i blindly followed. Christan reading this, i an MORE humane than you and actually follow FACTS instead of myths.
SlayerTime16 5 months ago
@SlayerTime16
So you know most of the greatest philosophers all believed in some form of religion. Some of the greatest scientists also believed in Religion albiet were tarnished because the Vatican decides to play politics instead of keeping the faith as it continues to do so today. Half I agree with what you are saying but the other half is blindly lashing out. The real problem is we have people who are religious to used their Brains a gift God gave them. (talking about the meta gift)
avdquick 5 months ago
@avdquick
crap let me rephrase the last line, that are not using their brands, but instead are believing in a 1000 year old propaganda book used to keep the ignorant in line because of the real truths were locked to those who had money. I mean I'm catholic but I view the Bible as nothing more then one big giant storytelling book about the record. I still would like to see the 300+ gospels associated with Jesus but due to politics those will never be shared with the world.
avdquick 5 months ago
So religious people only have morals for a prize (Heaven). Why not have morals because it's the right thing to do.
bumpnuglies 5 months ago 20
Lol and pointy grrr
MrKingagoonz 5 months ago
There are no morals on this planet.
Anyone can and do what ever that want.
evo2029 5 months ago
You rock. You just do. <3
Jadebolt7 5 months ago
Innocent Pizza!
Pastechi1 5 months ago
Haven't boiled a bunny? Never wanted to? Me neither!
On the other hand...
Some christians beat their child to death the other day, and felt perfectly justified in doing so because, "it's in the bible." She was the lucky one, the other 9 are still alive in that hell.
Jbear9 5 months ago
i believe in god but my brother doesnt. does it matter? HELL NO!!! i love atheist/agnostic people just as much as everybody else. i feel the radical christians make the rest of us look bad. please treat people with kindness instead of bashing them everybody. thank you.
MrDatbrownboy 5 months ago
@MrDatbrownboy You're right, the radical Christians do make you look bad. It is in fact crazy dogma, and not religion, that I'm against. Especially when it's used to call immoral things such as bigotry, a virtue. I also don't like it used to say: "we've got the truth, we should be in charge". Then there's admonitions to distrust one's own mind if it conflicts with scripture. If a non-believer makes sense, it's the power of the devil. This stuff is too dangerous to be met with kindness.
dymchurch1 5 months ago
@MrDatbrownboy thank you, I am an atheist but I love my religious who do not want me to join then in their religion. thank you.
dmtirino 5 months ago
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holandbar 5 months ago
peace? civilization? organized society? religion? are you joking?
holandbar 5 months ago
the very beggings of peace and organized societies called civilization are thanks to religion.
PCEggo 5 months ago
Religion is IMMORAL. Religion is an evil cult that has convinced people that we all are born with "sins" on our "souls" and deserve to be tortured forever for "finite crimes."
How can atheists have morals? EASY! One little word can change the world. It's called...PEACE! Also being able to get along cooperatively with one another is our moral foundation.
Religion is bullshit.
FallofDarkness55 5 months ago
Religion is totally without morals...Read the fucking Bible...No morals just Ignorance.
cruiseplatoon 5 months ago 44
I'd like to think that this is a reasonable basis for my morality, and it is, but what is my basis for condemning the actions of other people that I deem immoral? Why do I have the right to judge other people's actions?
ThatGuyWithHippyHair 5 months ago
You can't be moral unless you believe in a God that can take away your responsibility for committing atrocious acts.
odinata 5 months ago
Oh the orgies are the best part of being an Atheist. Of course you need to include some animals in there too, and some satanic blood rituals and blood drinking... OBV :p.
IsolationInstigation 5 months ago
LOLOL! Funny video! Hey, when are your Nazi orgies? Are you going to be smoking there what you're smoking in this video? LOL!
DoctorNociceptor 5 months ago
I'm French, so I've had rabbit for dinner a few times. Can't say I ever did boil one myself though.
Hey, we should get together some time, at one of your orgies.
adyswh 6 months ago
good video
hobaleo 6 months ago
This is the first I've seen of yours where you talk to camera, and it's much better when you do. Wow. The man in the mirror. Brilliant. Thanks.
I have broken the necks of 2 rabbits. My dog mauled 1 and I found my cat showing her kittens how to hunt by slowly killing another. I put them out of their misery. It was one of the toughest things I've ever done, being a townie. So as an atheist I faced that disgusting act, forced myself, out of compassion for a dumb animal.
freedeanna 6 months ago
Mankind's closest cousins have morals. They need neither a mirror nor a god. By living in a close knit society, they have developed empathy.
The big problem with Theistic "morals" is that they do not exist in one single unambiguous source. In other words no Theist can visibly demonstrate a definitive moral code to anyone let alone convince them it is the one true moral code.
I wonder if anyone will be foolish enough to say "Ah but we have the 10 commandments" (actually there are 14).
pilgrimpater 6 months ago
there is no good or bad, just you, and what you make of it is entirely up to you.
TheFlames376 6 months ago
@TheFlames376 That rhymed. There is good and bad because what you make of it is either good or bad. Some of us might consider something good and others the same thing as bad but most of us will consider some things as bad and some things as good. We cant escape the fact that love exist. and anyone harming the people we love will be considered bad and likely to suffer the consequences.
ZeusHelios 6 months ago
Christian morality is commensurate not to what we know, but rather that which we abide by biblically. Being a Christian does not constitute morality or the bearing of its fruit unless & until we live obediently. Morals in regard to atheism must, and can, only be based upon one's own ego due to the fact that the only set standard is that which is as variable as each & every atheist's prime commitment to his or her own set of values, whereas Christianity has as its basis a biblical set of creeds.
SDupe44 6 months ago
When you pulled out that mirror, it was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. It was like, something I've known since I've been young, but I couldn't put so eloquently or concretely..... Thank you
DrPirate42 6 months ago
Nobody has 'morals'. Morality is an abstract term people apply to behaviours and beliefs. Believing that it is right to allow women to vote for example isn't the same as saying that women ought to have the vote. Equally valuing human life is a personal value, one most people agree with, but a personal one nonetheless. There is no supreme set of values by which we can judge our 'morality'. So religious people and atheists are equally moral in that there are no morals.
williamthebrit 6 months ago
You rock Phil.
Jeffersonwazright 6 months ago
Great words, it is a great rant in regards to blind faith and organized religions. I only ask him this... what is in the mirror? You? What are you? What is consciousness? No one knows. How can you be so certain of uncertainty? Nobody really knows either way. To take a cold hard stance either side is egoic and silly. Atheist or theist, both are wrong... there is no right... we don't know...
mzaremba1 6 months ago
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mzaremba1 6 months ago
Its rather simple... if there is no God, then then good and evil become irrelevant. If there is no God, then does it really matter if I kill someone? Does it matter if I rape or steal or murder? Of course it does not... why? Because I decide what is right and wrong, if God does not exist. Without a divine being to tell me the difference, I can slit the throat of the maker of this video and not feel the slightest guilt...
NasherDezno 6 months ago
I'ld argue that a REAL theist (and thus a fundie following his religious law to the letter) is incapable of morality.
The essence of morality considering the possible consequences of a certain action. And that can only be done through rational reasoning and analysis of those consequences. You need to measure pro's and con's before you can decide about what is moral. Fundies blindly follow 2000 year old rules. They don't reason. It's all white and black. The exact opposite of morality.
ScientificBob 6 months ago
lol, bunny boil.
loscakes 6 months ago
Religion makes you feel terrible about being human. How can it give morals?
fromstart2finish 6 months ago
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jenius124 6 months ago
Why would not an atheist have morals? In fact atheistic morals are more genuine, since they do good out of compassion for the fellow being (not just humans by the way) rather than fear of retaliation from an imagined supernatural.
It is the hijacking of morals by religion that has doctrines of just war, and who in fact have started more wars because of what they believe in than for any other reason, that is morally repugnant to me as an atheist.
veritasdivina 6 months ago
the perfect judge is ourself
jam63112 6 months ago
My grandma is christian. And a racist. She does not like black people. I am sometimes embarrased to have such a person in my family.
10110rm 6 months ago
HEY EVERYBODY...F U C K Y O U
now that i have your attention. did you know that the foo fighters last 3 albums were written about what i have discovered. i am not lying. honest. dont believe me? go to "what about tafe" and find my 3 comments and theory. you may have to press "see all" once there. again i say i am not lying. you wont be disappointed. regards from burnie tasmania.
figbat1 6 months ago
Look at it this way..atheists have no gods to kill and destroy for. Body bombs, wishing death on gay people, picketing soliders' funerals or bombing subways and driving planes into buildings are "lovely" ways to show affection for the deity of choice. I have no problem with anyone who is a moderate believer or is compassionate to others or tolerant. But i feel insulted when I am accused of immorality because I do not follow a doctrine of faith. So then I eat some chocolate and hide
Trund27 6 months ago
"Boiled a boony"?
ThisIsMrNeil 6 months ago
So what about an imaginary lobster?
TheSkunkCat 7 months ago
sorry to say, but if you need to get your faulted morals from a book of fairy tales, somethings wrong with you
SnakeSalmon8izback 7 months ago
TO ALL YOU SO CALLED MORAL PROSTITUTES,MATTHEW 7:JUDGE NOT,THAT YE BE NOT JUDGE....HAVE A DARWIN DAY
MrEnlightenup 7 months ago
@MrEnlightenup Lmfao.
iiwatcher 7 months ago
@MrEnlightenup have a darwin day? if your trying to do what i think ur doing ur only proving yourself a stupid theist
SnakeSalmon8izback 7 months ago
You know just the other day I was talking to a fellow atheist over a game of 'stab the prostitute' and the topic of morals came up. We both agreed how absurd it was to say that only people who believe in god can have morals. I for one always donate the organs of babies I eat to medical research. How can that be classed as immoral!?
williamthebrit 7 months ago
@williamthebrit Hahahaha, that cracked me up :D
ScientificBob 6 months ago
Glad I stuck around until the end of this video, I really liked the message that came out of it eventually. Thanks.
toBnruG 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Any man who says that atheists are wholly immoral and the believers are wholly moral is deceiving himself.
'If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us'
1 John 1:8
Brotherinchrist1985 7 months ago
125 cute white bunnies were killed in the making of this video.
Never3rd 7 months ago
Not only have you never boiled a bunny alive, you can't even imagine it? You are bad at atheism.
Hilbilly655321 7 months ago
@Hilbilly655321 I'm currently working on my third genocide award. Damn, Atheists like us are sick bastards!
XD
Keijikrall 7 months ago
@Keijikrall seriously, people do not give atheists credit for how hard it can really be. i mean i like to wake up every day to a nice cold glass of newborn babies' blood, and that shit is reaalllyyy hard to come by.
Hilbilly655321 7 months ago
@Hilbilly655321 Newborn babies blood is getting pricey on the Godless heathen market of Immoral monsters.
Is it just me who finds this both funny but disturbing to type about myself? x.x I mean, fuck, it's fun to poke holes in this type of argument, make fun of it, but shit, even I'd freak out if I saw this out of context.
Keijikrall 7 months ago
@Keijikrall umm, real atheists are disturbed by nothing because we believe in nothing. maybe a few more years in the atheist academy would help you out. lol i only think it's disturbing because i'd bet a lot of fundies and crazies would think that it was true.
Hilbilly655321 7 months ago
@Hilbilly655321 Well, that's true. But still, to say that type of stuff about yourself while still knowing it to be untrue is abit disturbing.
Keijikrall 7 months ago
@Keijikrall ONLY three genocide award? PFFT! You noob! :D
LucianCanad 7 months ago
@LucianCanad Ya, but they were the bonus point races, each of them.
Keijikrall 7 months ago
@Keijikrall OK, not so noob :P
LucianCanad 7 months ago
There is no commandment against slavery - god thinks its acceptable. Think about it.
number1sun 7 months ago
@number1sun, "god" thinks it's acceptable? Or do irrational men from approximately 2000-5000 years ago? Anyone who seriously thinks slavery is acceptable needs their heads examined.
dciguy01 7 months ago
@number1sun Not only does the god of the bible think slavery is acceptable... he even gives us rules on how to do it. Seriously. Read the OT. I think it's totally ironic that bible-freaks in the US are the people yapping about games like Grand Theft Auto... The attrocities found in the bible don't even compare...
You'ld have to watch some kind of gore-splatter-zombie-porn movie with midgets to get the same kind of graphic content.
ScientificBob 6 months ago
On the other hand, do christians (or any religious person) NOT boil bunnies or have orgies with nazis because they have a big invisible giant to say not to? I"ve seen a lot more hateful christians (and saved messages from them as proof) than I've seen hateful athiests.
Shadowbane3 7 months ago
Some theist have said the only reason they don't kill, steal, rape, etc... is because of god and if he didn't exist there would be no reason to follow any of these laws. These people really think we're the ones who owe THEM an explanation as to how we can be moral when they admit they only follow these rules out of fear of being caught? I'm proud to say that fear of hell is not what makes me do right by my fellow humans. I do it for its own sake and it also gives me a little pleasure.
moh490234890238490 7 months ago
I've boiled some vegetables once
sagar246246 7 months ago 14
@sagar246246 That's weak, I've stepped on ants before.
AsianHideOut 1 month ago
About the morals subject, well, what's the best source, human reason in a civilized and modern age filled with knowledge or a book written by primitive men thousands of years ago that accepts slavery, homophoby, depreciating women, stoning unbelievers and rape?
It's interesting how people can make use of intellectual dishonesty when defending something that they know isn't based on reason but mere imagination, everything to defend their comfortable beliefs, but beliefs are beliefs, not knows.
carlosewm 7 months ago 2
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carlosewm 7 months ago
I was all packed to bring intellectual ass kicking but I see you are not just another ignorant, disinformed religious person that unfortunately learned to use a computer.
I don't tolerate ignorant people, these people making claims like "Evolution is a lie", they will selectively hear anything that reinforces their comfortable idea of eternal life and irresponsibility (after all, they can just have their sins forgiven for a nice price).
carlosewm 7 months ago 2
@carlosewm ''you are...another ignorant, disinformed religious person''
well 'disinformed' has a red line under it, but it actually is a word, a back formation of 'disinformation'
'disinformation' differs from 'misinformation' in that it is bad information spread DELIBERATELY
I dont think most religious 'bad information' is spread with the intent to deceive & misinform
most religious people, even preachers and leaders, are sincere, some to the point of death [Rev. MLK is a good example]
PorkFrog 7 months ago
@PorkFrog Well that may be the case but it still does have impact on society, doesn't it?
I see the idea of eternal life and hell for example as very dangerous, it seems you can go to heaven just for believing/accepting the existence of a being when you don't have evidence to reinforce such belief, this if I haven't been misinformed myself.
I see it as religion offers easy explanations for our natural inquiries and comfort, at the cost of reinforcing some people's tendencies to ignorance.
carlosewm 7 months ago
What you've come up here is as amazing as the Picture of Dorian Gray.
Theists do have a Picture of Dorian Gray, hiding in their secret locked room, away from everybody, away from themselves. Day by day they look themselves in the mirror and see that their actions haven't scarred their faces.
I don't have that luxury, and neither do you. We don't have a picture that looks old and stained of evil. We don't pretend the world is black and white, we don't look for those deserving of hell.
ruiferreira89 8 months ago
@muker123 Err, that wouldn't solve the problem. "Crushing all religions" would just cause more war. People have the right to believe in what they believe in -- it's those who try to force it on others that are the problem.
VyaliasKryptonite 8 months ago
I find this interesting because though I am a Christian, my morals are developed in much the same way. As you said: if a Christian steals, he should have the reassurance that God will forgive him later, correct? And although that's technically true, I'm not a big fan of that 'reassurance' -- because I need to like what I see in the mirror, as well. I do what is 'right' because it feels right, not because God will judge me if I do the 'wrong' thing.
Love your sense of humour, by the way. C;
VyaliasKryptonite 8 months ago
Empathy is the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. Whether we are an atheist or a believer we all have the ability to empathize. In fact, Jesus even said the the two greatest commandments were 1) to love God with all your heart and soul and 2) to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. So even a Christian should be able to agree that empathy forms a very good basis on which to build morality.
amalt37 8 months ago
I would dare to say that our morals are more consistent and held to a higher personal standard than those attributed to the theists.
caprino54 8 months ago
I dn't need to be threatened with hell or bribed with heaven to do the right thing. i dn't know about christians but i think that not being a douche-bag is reason enough to not do bad things.
Nixom1334 8 months ago
You are doing the same thing that few theists do. You are taking the radical few as a representation of everyone. While some people do believe that atheists are bunny boilers without morals, many theists just accept atheists. Same thing with atheists. Some are bunny boilers, but the vast majority are not.
davidblade15 8 months ago
Nazi orgy, my place, 10pm!
TrigonJilad 8 months ago
i love it when they say hitler was an athiest he was roman catholic =)
DXXDgame 8 months ago
I'm an atheist and a cop. Would appear I have morals. Also, I've never killed children and the alleged God has.
TheConsciousPoet 8 months ago
How can atheists have morals? Answer: Because they are think human beings and have brains like everyone else. We are moral despite any god and religion not because of those impostors.
roac7777 8 months ago
I (may as well be) an atheist because I can't believe. Every time I looked at being religious, I felt this massive disconnect from what was happening/being taught. I lacked the belief on both a critical and emotional level.
mickyj300x 8 months ago
i'm atheist and i acknowledge that i have no morals. because morals are only how we interpret actions according to our perspective. i don't say something is wrong or right, because i don't need to. in 100 years, people will judge us for what we did. just as we judge people who lived in the past. 'morality' constantly changes. when living in the moment, you just have to act based on what you know about consequences of your actions. morality is irrelevant.
themanfromhell24 8 months ago
i don't think that reading the bible has anything to do with being moral. i think that it means you make good decisions, that's all. religion doesn't mean much at all. atheism isn't a death sentence or anything bad, and i'm sad that it has such a bad stigma in the US.
kellzyeahhh 9 months ago
How can u be a moral person if u dont stone the homosexuals to death? read the holy bible and get some morals u scum
Samura1gamer 9 months ago
@Samura1gamer Lawl. Hello, Mr. Troll. C;
VyaliasKryptonite 8 months ago
To believe or not to believe in a deity is not a choice. Belief is not something you can switch on and off - if this is what you BELIEVE you are doing, you probably have some doubts about your religion. Atheists do not choose not to believe in God or choose to follow reason. The absence of belief is simply something reason leads us to. However, a religious individual CAN choose not to question the nature of their beliefs, thus never being bothered by logic or reason. True atheism is irreversible
VALENTINEBEAMS 9 months ago
I like walnuts :)
maskedninjacookie 9 months ago
Atheists are immoral because they don't believe in absolute truth, whereas religious people do. However, unfortunately, religious people can't agree on what it is.
landl47 9 months ago
@landl47 Ehm, by that chain of logic, any christian group but one is immoral. Who are you betting on?
merlechmoose 8 months ago
I was a christan but one of my friends had me try being atheist for a day, far more relaxing, far more easier, alot more relaxing. But before I was atheist or learned my friend was athiest and was the nicest guy I know.
CRossirun 9 months ago
I wish I could get a moment to talk to Phil for just a moment.
I've having a very difficult time right now with nihilistic thinking. I've lost all my passion for science, gardening, video games, cooking, kayaking... just the things that used to make me happy. Simply because they all seem to be meaningless and avoiding the truth (nihilism, nothing matters).
All I have left now is a small shred of will to live. I will not commit suicide, or ever harm anyone... but for now, I suffer. I need help.
zrhealey 9 months ago
@zrhealey
in meaninglessness you have freedom.
Since there is no possible reason for anything, you are free to do whatever you want and not give a fuck. Just do what you enjoy simply to enjoy it.
SamoDaJerbal 9 months ago
Boiled a bunny? That's such a random thought - I think you must have boiled one or two.
myrtlebox 9 months ago
@myrtlebox Rabbit stew is delicious...
iiwatcher 9 months ago
Bunny boiling? Umm! - Um! Hassenpfeffer stew! Yummy! XD
yeshuahfullofit 9 months ago
i dont take there word in my hart bekoze they only wont to insolt us they are verry ruud en inhumane sow dont worry about what they say about atheism we now beter and we will spraed de peace atheisme is the future
atheist1978 9 months ago
Yes, u're surely a horible atheist. Death to all bunnies!!
celoaguiar01 9 months ago
The real question is how can chickens have nuggets....you ever thought of that? i mean, i dont know where McD's gets their chickens, but it must be from somewhere around Chernobyl
Porojukaha 9 months ago
Can't have a good orgy without a few Nazi's!! lol
ElectrumShiv 9 months ago
morals are logical :)
sonicsoul0 9 months ago
Not all are moral. There are less atheists in prison, significantly less. Least in America. Great Vid Phil.
FallofFaithfull 9 months ago
Phil you really are the man
Punkrock506 9 months ago
Quick, someone get other species a Bible...They are killing each other!
ERICBOBCAT 9 months ago
Stroking bunnies affectionately? No worries phil, you may not be a bunny-boiler, but bunny-buggering is just as fine. You can have your atheist card back.
DissenteensInRevolt 9 months ago
This atheist thinks bunny stew is delicious.
Tapecutter59 9 months ago 2
the premise is flawed.
theism doesn't imply that it's impossible for atheists to have morals. rather, the fact that atheists have morals (largely in line with theists) points, logically, to a the existence of some higher being that imprinted those morals upon all people.
sp759 9 months ago
@sp759 Have you heard about something called evolution? Our behavior has been shaped by this selective force. Why do chimpanzees don't kill each other? Why do they care about other chimpanzees? Did god imprinted moral values in them to? But then why not imprint them in lions (they eat the babies of other lions :S)? Most theist think hell is an acceptable punishment. While here on earth, torture is illegal under any circumstance, at least in modern societies, so no one agrees with Christianity.
MrDubidubidubidu 9 months ago
@MrDubidubidubidu If evolution has the capacity to move humanity toward ultimate morality, doesn't that imply intelligence? And if this 'force' is intelligent, isn't that essentially theism? Why do some animals kill their young & some not? I don't know. Microevolution within a species is an observable proven theory, that could explain it. But ultimately I must defer to Job 38-41. I understand how eternal punishment seems unfair, but really it's heaven that's more unfathomable in Christianity.
sp759 9 months ago
@sp759 What? where did I say that evolution drove us to ultimate morality? There are just some behaviors caused by some genes that are beneficial in certain circumstances. In societies like ours or the chimpanzees collaboration is essential, for the lion, its beneficial to kill babies of other lions, thats why these genes are passed on.
I'm not saying that its fair or unfair, I just stated that if in our world torture is not accepted, but its a main part of christianity. Are you chrisitian?
MrDubidubidubidu 9 months ago
@MrDubidubidubidu You said 'selective force,' which seemed to me to imply intent, but I guess I misunderstood. If it's just a genetic abnormality, is it really morality or just beneficial preferences? If it's just what's more beneficial, then is murder or rape or bunny boiling really immoral or just contrary to what's beneficial? Torture is not a main part of Christianity but hell is an unfortunate byproduct of rebellion against God. And yes, I am.
sp759 9 months ago
@sp759 We evolved to find all those things repugnant, and that is called moral. So you think I deserve to be tortured eternally right? What have I done wrong? I guide myself by logic, and logic goes against the christian god or any book god, so why do I have to be punished? Even worse, hell isnt a real punishment because we use punishment to correct peoples behavior but since hell is eternal, I will learn nothing from it. How can u accept torture as a byproduct when here in earth its unnecessary
MrDubidubidubidu 9 months ago
@MrDubidubidubidu Repugnant as people may find it, how can it be a universal, objective morality? Wouldn't it be subjective & cultural? Cannibalism has been practiced by societies in the past century. Are they just less evolved? If so, is it really immoral? I believe everyone deserves hell because of our rebellious sin nature, but by God's grace, some are saved through Christ. Logic has led me to understand that God and Jesus are more reasonable than the alternative (which I used to believe).
sp759 9 months ago
@sp759 Its not a universal objective morality! Christians have been raping and killing for centuries, so clearly the mentality that christians have today is not the same as 5 centuries ago. Cannibalism just proves my point, in parts of the world where there was hunger and where less developed culturally it was ok to eat the enemies and their religions were based around that. Clearly its not logic that brought you to that conclusion cause then the most intelligent people would believe too.
MrDubidubidubidu 9 months ago
@MrDubidubidubidu If morality isn't a fixed reality, no one has ever done anything wrong because they only have to justify their actions to themselves. And by that logic, a punitive legal system is punishing people for being less-evolved. That doesn't seem right... Raping and killing has never been a part of Christianity, but has resulted from corrupt government and religious leadership. Einstein fudged his work because it pointed to a creator. Everything coming from nothing is not logical.
sp759 9 months ago
@sp759 Nope that is not true, morals evolved because we live in a society, so morals are shared by a number of people. If you harm the society you are excluded, this happens in exactly the same way in chimpanzees, and probably in a lot more species. I suggest to you to read the old testament. I recall passages were god ordered the masacre of an entire city except girls so they could be raped.
Wrong, Einstein got results that contradicted hes beliefs so he discarded them and then was proved wrong
MrDubidubidubidu 9 months ago
@MrDubidubidubidu Your reasoning on this morality structure based on nothing but social norms isn't logical. If morals aren't immutable but just arbitrary constructs based on the shared idea of a number of people, that's just mob (even if it’s a peaceful one) rule. And by that logic, there is no objective right and wrong and all laws are just because the leaders are either elected or are strong enough to stay in power on the backs of the citizens. Either way, it's totally ethical by that logic.
sp759 9 months ago
@MrDubidubidubidu Nixon said, if the president does it, it's not illegal. Not true for presidents, but true for God. After years of fighting against God because I didn't want to submit to His authority, I realized I was wrong. The Holy Spirit convicted me and logic, reason, science and sound theology have pointed out the error in my former thought processes. I don't look at the difficult parts of the Old Testament and say, "wow, that seems like something I want to do!" ...
sp759 9 months ago
@MrDubidubidubidu Rather, I know God is sovereign and in light of that, I may not understand His reasoning for things but I know that I am not His judge and He is just and holy. I know it seems counter-intuitive because I've been on your side of this debate. But regardless, some specific instances do not establish norms. God didn't call for the eradication of nations at the whim of the rulers, but in specific circumstances ordained by Him. Did God order rape, probably not...
sp759 9 months ago
@MrDubidubidubidu He extended grace by giving some the opportunity to live with His chosen people, and as such have the opportunity to turn from their sinful ways toward Himself. But this is a much bigger theological discussion than this forum allows for.
The point with Einstein is, his conclusions made him uncomfortable because an expanding universe implies a beginning and a beginning implies a beginner. Him and many other scientists see the evidence for God daily in everything for the order...
sp759 9 months ago
@MrDubidubidubidu of the universe to the coding of genes. They choose not to believe because the pride of a large portion of the scientific community doesn't like the implication of admitting to and subsequently submitting to a creator. To credit nature with creating nature is like saying my wife will birth her own mother. It's not logical!
The foundation this type of "logic" sits on is shaky. It implies that true right and wrong don't exist and unpleasant conclusions can simply be discarded.
sp759 9 months ago
@MrDubidubidubidu And now, as engaging as this has been, your heart doesn't seem to be in a place to accept the ultimate truth of Jesus & I have a busy weekend with 3 papers to write so I'm going to call this one... but I pray you'll get there. There, just did it. Thankfully changing hearts isn't my job, I'm just called to speak the truth. I sincerely pray (as absurd as you may find it) that your eyes will be open to the truth and that you'll stay safe and healthy until that day. Peace, brah.
sp759 9 months ago
@sp759 lol nice way to get out when you are out of arguments. see you ;)
MrDubidubidubidu 9 months ago
phil, i am a believer , though its a shame that atheists are so misunderstood.
i am doing studies AND TRYING TO LEARN ABOUT atheists AND THEIR WAY OF THINKING, very interesting, and i get alot of good points of view, from differant atheist peoples, there are a few of us believers that do except and lov all kinds of peoples, so we agree to disagree,,, we all have the choice to CHOOSE,
REGARDS from amerika
FAELYNNWOLFF 9 months ago
@FAELYNNWOLFF "...we all have the choice to CHOOSE."
As long as you think atheism is a "choice" you will never understand. I mean you no disrespect. I'm trying to help you see what theists consistently fail to grasp (or SAY they fail to grasp). Theists say atheism is a "choice" so consistently. Is theism a "choice"?
philhellenes 9 months ago 9
@philhellenes
GREETING'S PHIL..
NO, you are not disrespecting me, .. though your reply baffles me, how can it not be a "choice" are you saying that you were born this way, and you have no choice,? sure you do, you choose to not believe in yahweh, god, right ? as i choose to believe , and you do not,
okay phil , explain to me further, i just dont get it as you state above, aahhh help me, phil. : )
tell me how you see this as not a choice. thank you very kindly ..
wolff
FAELYNNWOLFF 9 months ago
@FAELYNNWOLFF Do you "choose" to believe the Earth orbits the Sun? Is that a choice?
philhellenes 9 months ago 23
@philhellenes no matter what you have a choice,god has given us free will,but id like to hear more of what your saying reply plz
BLOODYMOON62 9 months ago
@philhellenes "Do you 'choose' to believe the Earth orbits the Sun? Is that a choice?"
Yes! Maybe you're getting it now. We build our beliefs on evidence. We have REASONS for believing... whereas we do not for holding a faith. That is the difference between faith and belief. I believe the sun will come up in the morning based on past evidence and experience.
An atheist does not hold a belief in god because they have seen no real evidence to support it.
mooseflier 8 months ago
@philhellenes Well, no, but that's different. Because the earth orbiting the sun is a fact. The concept of god is open to debate. This is why we choose to either believe or not believe. Similar in a way that in typical debate, you choose for or against something. Same thing. So yes, we choose.
AnImmortalEra 8 months ago
@AnImmortalEra When someone has a lot of conviction that there is no god simply by using common sense and observing the abundance of facts out there, yes, it becomes a stretch to "force" yourself to believe in a higher being. Do you choose to believe Santa Claus, and the Tooth Fairy are real? Can you say it with conviction?
arizonaresident1 8 months ago
@arizonaresident1 No because I know for an actual fact that those are man made and made up. The concept of god stretches so far back in time that the origin is nebulous and thus cannot really be historically disproven by saying that some certain guy started it all. So some people can say that they believe in a god with conviction
AnImmortalEra 8 months ago
@philhellenes
There's scientific proof for the earth orbiting the sun so yeah, I do choose to believe that. But until someone comes up to me and gives me real proof to the existence of God, I think it's my right to "choose" what to believe and what not to believe.
umaidevil94 8 months ago
@FAELYNNWOLFF
If I may give my two cents here...
I went to mostly christian schools for the first 11 years of my life, and during that time nobody ever told me that there was even the slight possibility that goid did not exist. But despite this I never believed a word they said about god and the creation of the universe.
It was not a choice, just an instinctive reation to something that I found silly.
You cannot choose to know something, it just happens.
Kerouac0deciple 9 months ago