The problem with these debates is not so much that you're giving a forum to the scientificly illiterate or charlatans but that these debates in general have a format that favors emotional arguments over rational arguments. They only serve to increase belief in the irrational and doesn't help rationality in any way, which is why charlatans like Craig love them so much !
@OutOfTheBoxThinker I think that the Christians deserve at least one skilled sophist such as Craig. I couldn't even finish the Hitchens-Dempski debate. It was like watching a 13 year old girl getting raped by Mike Tyson.
I do not understand why people say that God is 100% good all the time. The old testament is clear when it proclaims God having knowledge of both good and evil and even doing evil, such as sending an "evil spirit" to torment Saul. I guess evil and sin are two different things.
I guess the moral of the story is, "It is only a sin if anybody who isn't God does it. If you are God, you can't possibly sin, because you have special privilege and the ability to torture all you appose you forever."
i agree with the narrator's opinion of debates. i never understood how people were said to 'win' a debate when the whole point, as far as i could ever tell, was to get the other side to understand your viewpoint, but in watching debates it seems to be more about how many people agree with which party that determines who 'wins'... if that's how it ends up, everybody loses... because no one's 'considering' ... just looking for what they already agree with
I like how the sponsors for the debate completely show their hand in a matter of seconds. They aren't interested in a search for the truth, they are solely interested in their "team" obtaining "victory". Such a rather... ego-driven pursuit helps nobody except it's holder, because it does not lead to a profitable exchange of ideas.
@ExtantCrocoduck Take a look at the study guide which was sent out to the students. Actually the "school" sold them for $35 a piece to their "students." It's a complete joke.
@MrTruthAddict I did watch GBB's excellent dissection of the guide, which as he pointed out could have easily been written by one of their own students, given the lack of logic and proper spelling, word choice, and punctuation. I actually wagged in with a few additional flaws that GBB didn't comment on. "A complete joke" is definitely a good way to put it.
It might have been said before, but the "Baby Killer" comment, while I understand it to be hyperbolic, isn't in this case accurate as Christopher Hitchens has stated sentiments against abortion in several speeches he has made. Just thought I'd be a nitpicky bastard <_<
Jesus' words commend themselves and need not be defended. The only begotten Son of God has shown the power to illuminate any individual, culture or nation that truly puts his laws of love into practice. You go your way, Jesus and his lambs the other. Do whatever your heart finds to do, but know you will give an account for every deed and careless word. Matthew 12.36
@HowDareWe No it hasn't and yes they do. Prove there is a god.
Please do go your own way, just stop trying to drag everyone down with you into madness.
But keep in mind this is the only life you get so you had better act morally now instead of depending on a loophole that your religion provides where you get to act grossly immorally and then say, "Oops, my bad." History will judge religion and it will be found guilty. Me 19:56
Without humor - without sarcasm - chances are - I will see you in hell. Your arrival there is all but certain.
I may see you from above or laterally - I'm not sure. But I call on Jesus and am called by Jesus' name. Maybe he will vouch for me...maybe not. But you will burn without remedy.
I've sojourned the intellectual and spiritual ends of the earth a while now. I am merciful - but my soul inexorably involuntarily cries - SHOW NO MERCY TO THOSE WHO SAY "prove there is a God."
@HowDareWe And you are a batshit crazy asshole. There is no hell, there is not heaven, you're just a confused douche bag that is too stupid to realize just how stupid you are. Go back to your ignorant bullshit mythology in the sure knowledge that you're are wrong, dead wrong. You sir are a retard.
@HowDareWe You sound like a gangster. "If you don't claim my clique and act just like me, you're gonna die." Sorry, but only an idiot would be convinced by that approach.
@MrTruthAddict Youtube attracts evil simple idiots peddling the most transparent and revolting reductionist stupidity, unable to acknowledge or engage complex topics antipodal to their complacent self serving God hating lifestyles whose out of control fleshly indulgences multiply sorrow, grief and trouble upon the earth. Your day is coming.
@HowDareWe Sorry, but I'm not a mind slave so I don't respond to that kind of talk. If that kind of intimidation and condescending bullying persuaded you to become a mind slave to religion then I don't have much respect for you. In fact I have none at all. It is your mentality (wearing the mask of "Jesus' love") which is pushing us towards religious armageddon in this world.
@MrTruthAddict If only you could nullify or reduce the infinite arguments, the broiling cauldron of evidence, testimony, observable social phenomenon, history, et al. down to one alleged gangster-like misstatement, you might escape Hell.
@HowDareWe Jesus is the ultimate gangster... Matt. 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (10:34-36)
I came not to send peace, but a sword. ... A man's foes shall be they of his own household."
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
@HowDareWe and I'll be laughing at you when you're worm food and your eternal reward never comes. The Jesus cult is simply a plagiarization of sun-god cults which came before it. Your god gave you the gift of logic and reason, which is the only thing which distinguishes you from the lower animals in this world, yet you threw that gift in the trash in order to believe this superstition. A total waste of the one and only life you will ever have.
@HowDareWe America has something like 10% atheists, the country has an extremely high murder rate, horrible health care and is generally a prejudice country that continues to start wars. Many African and Middle Eastern countries have 00 - 5 % atheists and they are suffering and in a state of war. A lot of those regions are still also in the middle ages. Countries like Sweden with 80% atheists are some of the happiest coutries in the world. I think that is proof that religion doesn't help nations
GreatBigBore - you are a typical Liberal, really a troll. You throw out challenges, condemnations and accusations - that's what your channel is about. You also sent them to me. I blew them all out of the water. In my years speaking to your kind - they simply pretend their pretenses were not destroyed. This is what you have done - because each allegation against God, Jesus, Scripture, Old Testament even the nature of truth - was shown for the thin charades they are. Cogency is wasted here.
@GreatBigBore Jesus knew he would not convert most of the Jews, who were much more intelligent and educated than you are. However, when those with understanding and reason see your every challenge demolished, some will come closer to the truth.
Your narcissistic myopia is astounding - with such a crowd watching youtube - who says these words are not for them, knowing a curmudgeon mind like yours WILL NEVER BE SAVED. Aggressive stupidity is hard to forgive. Expect condemnation.
@HowDareWe I extend an open invitation to you to join the conversation. You have not participated in it so far. I have no response to your insults and assertions. Please, feel free to say something meaningful. I'm listening.
People like you are the reason others question their faith. People that warn of condemnation based solely on the fact that their opinions differ. I loathe and thank you at the same time. Fuck you for being so closed minded, but thank you for helping me realize no loving God would ever create a piece of shit like you.
@Speedeefeet I've never spoken to you before in my life. Until now. All I know is that you prefer the most vile kind of language and refer to human beings made in God's image as feces. Likely, you impress yourself with this: to your corrupt mind it's powerful language. Truth is, you've said nothing supported, substantive or persuasive. My arguments are all found in Scripture. Take Jesus at his word and live or reject his words and die in your sins. You have many chances to repent - take them.
Your attempt at "intelligence" to appear righteous is actually quite amusing. Speak in laymen's terms and people might not view your opinion with such contempt. I have read your previous comments and I expected more after reading your "smart: banter. Everything you say is anecdotal and cannot be backed with empirical evidence. You only quote scripture... and don't tell me to repent if you do not know my faith.
@Speedeefeet I know you - for out of the overflow of a man's heart - his mouth speaks. As the words are vile and godless, so is the man. You wax mysterious and unknown to feign innocence, but whom do you fool? No man is good, no man is innocent. All have sinned and fallen but may re-enter childhood innocence, even Paradise, through the only gateway given to mankind: Jesus Christ who loved you and was crucified for your sins.
Are you supposed to judge me like that? Doesn't your religion tell you something about that? Anyway, you should stop trolling comments and get back to something useful, like killing yourself.
@HowDareWe "Truth is, you've said nothing supported, substantive, or persuasive". This is rather ironic, as I fail to see a single comment by you where you provide any substance to back up your points. A couple times you make vague noncommittal statements which could be developed into a substantial argument, but you never elaborate on them. Aside from those 2-3 cases, you simply quote the bible, without demonstrating why we should consider it a reliable source.
@ExtantCrocoduck Oh...sorry....I can help you...see...what happens is....regarding elaborate substantiated multi-faceted arguments complete with exhibits, supports and the array of proof appropriate....is that...
WE ARE ON YOUTUBE YOU JACKASS.
True...the "we are on youtube you jackass" point is not elaborated...but see...how can I put this in a 500 character box...oh yes...
WE ARE ON YOUTUBE YOU JACKASS. Google your questions you cheap lazy rat bag. Nothing new under the sun
@HowDareWe What am I supposed to google? You haven't referenced any arguments for me TO google. You don't even have to lay out the whole argument. Just name the argument, or the basics of it, and I'll have either heard of it, or will look it up. Then we can discuss it. I don't know exactly why you're so pissed off at me, or exactly why I'm a "jackass", but whatever.
@HowDareWe You're one of those schoolyard bullies who gets his ass kicked so he gets on the internet and bullies people with religion. What a failure you are.
Both Jesus and Paul condemned the Old Testament Laws - and any theologian worth his salt knows the Old Testament period was a necessary period of misery discarded like a dirty rag when the reality of Christ appeared. But let the Apostle Paul tell it.
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, Having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
Galatians was written by Paul to a group turning back to Old Testament principles. He thought this egregious and wrong in light of Jesus setting us free from a law he called weak and miserable. He says the Old Testament was a form of slavery of limited value for a limited time to lead us to Christ and to show we could never attain righteousness by a system of law.
Galatians 4 Why are you turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?
Galatians was written by Paul to a group turning back to Old Testament principles. He thought this egregious and wrong in light of Jesus setting us free from a law he called weak and miserable.
Galatians 4 Why are you turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?
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Galatians 5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Do not let Yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery(the Law). Mark my words! I, Paul, tell u that if u let Yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to u at all and u will be obligated to obey the whole law and will be alienated from Christ, fallen away from grace.
Do you not understand that these bible reference are useless unless we can establish that the bible is a legitimate document? I could quote from Homer all day long but it wouldn't count as support for any argument about the nature of reality. Please, join the conversation, or bugger off.
@GreatBigBore Excellent - I'm glad you retract all condemnations from the Old Testament with this latest statement that the Bible is not admissible. So why were you making an ass of yourself quoting it against Christianity, if it's not admissible?
If you can use it to condemn God and Christ, any court would also allow its use in a defense...even a child knows you can't have your cake and eat it to :-)
FAIL :-)
And if you think words have no inherent meaning - you don't belong in this debate
@Atrofia2 Hmm, I think I Photoshopped that from "The Creation of Adam." Surely someone else out there has done it before me, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. You could probably find something like it if you look for "The Creation of Adam" in google images.
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3 witnesses can testify at a trial, all saying different things, each concluding the suspect is innocent or guilty - and all three can be right. You do not understand the nature of perspective. Take yours for instance - it's wrong. Nor do you understand the term apparent contradictions. Nor do you understand good is as good does. Even if Bill Gates made a copy of the Bible and introduced errors, it would be impossible to pull enough Christ out that it didn't transform people.
hey christians...does this sound familiar. "2 million ppl believe in something so they cant be wrong, o wait....the world revolves around the sun? well then i guess we were all wrong...."
Apologists are great, they are easily forced to define thier god into a distant nebulosity wich most of the religeous need to be exposed too. You can allmost allways get them to argue for deism, usually against thier will. Getting them to inadvetantly teach deism is far better than christianity or islam.
@GreatBigBore Tautalogical -"Rudimentary morality appears" "When our brains got huge??" Are you a child? You think in the thickest of crayola crayon terms. Time to put the crayons and scissors with rubber ends away and challenge your premises.
You're straight from an Owellian novel - you've believed all the critically unanalyzed black boxes big brother has given you. Awake from your delusional matrix. Take the Red pill, leave wonderland. The gospel of John is the Red Pill
@HowDareWe You typed a lot of words but you didn't manage to say anything. What are you accomplishing by speaking to me in this way? Do you really think that you're going to convert me? Is Jesus happy with the way you're representing him? Please, join the conversation or bugger off.
No atheist can say that 2 Billion Muslims are wrong when they spread a book teaching them to bury women up to their necks, lifting jagged rocks in their hands, throwing them until the woman's face is a screaming crying quagmire of pulped human flesh. For her and her children this will be her last memory on earth under Islam.
They say it's right, and so are child marriages wherein girls often die or collect fistulas during birth. By what authority do you condemn this?
@HowDareWe "By what authority do you condemn this?"
I reject your implication that an authority is required in order for me to condemn human rights violations. Rudimentary morality appears in all social creatures. When our brains became huge, we got better at empathy. As we become more civilized, we get better at empathy. As science progresses, we get better at recognizing detriments to human well-being. No appeal to authority is required. Now we have the data.
@HowDareWe "No atheist can say that 2 Billion Muslims are wrong when they..."
You are wrong on two counts. First I can say it's wrong because I am the judge of what I determine is wrong.
Second, the bible itself s fails to condemn this and even condones it in places. Yes you can interpret parts to say killing is wrong but even more places make it clear yahweh is a bloodthirsty SOB. Ask the Jebusites, Philistines, Ammonites or eqyptian first borns... oh wait nevermind...
@HowDareWe By what authority do you condemn this? You have no more proof for your version of things than Muslims do. You both have old books and a plethora of unsubstantiated assertions.
You assert that the Gospel of John is "the red pill". How about the gospel of Matthew? Specifically 5:17, when Jesus makes it clear that we're still supposed to follow Jewish Law. By what authority do you omit the rules about slavery and selling your daughter, from your own holy book?
@t3tsuyaguy1 Matthew 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Do you purposely ignore the 2nd clause and qualifier?
What's the EVERYTHING God wished to accomplish? Did Jesus fulfill the law and accomplish it and is it everything? Any real Christian can help you understand what Christ accomplished. Don't expect it in a youtube box though.
@HowDareWe Wow dude. I miss things all the time, but I ignore nothing. You however, have ignored the permanence AND dominance of the first qualifier "until heaven and earth disappear".
You can assert whatever interpretations you like of what Jesus meant by "everything is accomplished", but you are not free to ignore the continued existence of heaven and earth.
@t3tsuyaguy1 I can remain white and go to Disney World, provided Mom sends money for the tickets. The Prison can stand and I can be free, provided the Governor issues a pardon.
True, a handicapped or ESL student thinks: The White Man can NEVER go to Disney World...but the sharp tool notices the "until Mom sends that cash."
@HowDareWe Really guy?? False analogies. Misrepresentation. That's the way? You can't honestly believe that because it is possible to construct valid sentences with disqualified antecedents, that every sentence with two qualifiers favors the secondary at the exclusion of the primary. You are clearly not that stupid; so, I'm left with, you are full of shit.
Jesus uses two qualifiers for increased clarity of subsumation. The law is eternal and separate from the covenants Abraham and Jesus.
@HowDareWe "By what authority do you condemn this?"
The same authority that lets us condemn your religion when it tells us that "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and caused hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people in Europe and North America to be suffered not to live on that basis from the 12th Century (at the latest) up to and including the 17th. That's still a part of your religion. The fact that you ignore it these days is largely thanks to the protests of naturalists.
When I heard the kid talking about "schemes" before the debate, I could hardly believe that these people would be so transparent about their motives. Once again the blatant dishonesty of these theists has exceeded my expectations.
The Peace index list is a bit deceptive by combining Palistine's and Isreal's score and then listing it just as Isreal! No doubt that is the number one reason why Isreal is 6th from the bottom at #144!
@SSTTEEAALLTTHH "Because Palestinians are turning the other cheek? Didn't think so, they aren't any more peaceful than Israeli's."
Huh??? I believe my point was that Palestine pulls Isreal down on the peace index. They're two different countries now and should of been evaluated seperately. What the peace index did was akin to combining UK's peace index with the US index thereby pulling UK's index down. (At least I think UK's is higher than US I'll have to check.)
@mjh012363 Palestine isn't a country. At least not yet. Never has been a country. Yasser Arafat (I think it was) chose that name and the idea of a Palestine nation to unite the Arabs deposed by the creation of the state of Israel in 1948. No, he didn't choose it in 1948. That's when Jews were granted their own land called Israel by the UN.
Um...news flash. It officially became one in 2005 and promptly went into civil war within a year breaking into Fatah led West Bank and Hamas led Gaza.
It's a painting, I think, but now I can't find it out there. I was looking for a face that might give the impression of hatching a nefarious plot. I have the impression that it's not a famous person. You can download it from here if you like:
@GreatBigBore they also tend to be (are?) first-world countries with high education levels :P education might be the confounding variable that explains both the atheism and the peacefulness. Actually, the Human Development Index seems to correlate better with Atheism than peacefulness.
@BuBBaGump014 I would argue anyway that the statisics for Ireland are wrong because most Irish atheists that I've encountered are still registered as catholic.
Most people I know are atheists but only 1 has changed the register to display this.
@SSTTEEAALLTTHH That's where most of the statistics come from, when you're baptised and have your confirmation you're registered as catholic until you change it.
You need to send a letter somewhere requiring to be removed from their lists... I don't think it is to your parish, but to a somewhat higher level, possibly your diocese (sorry about the sketchiness, I just recall reading it in a newspaper once). I also roughly considered doing it, but as I'm not even currently living in my native country it's too much of a bother... funny how this topic also came up in a dinner I had just yesterday...
Yea, I looked into it, and on number of Belgian atheistic/agnostic/deistic websites you can even get an example of the letter in which you only have to fill in your name and such. It's indeed directed to the diocese as it seems.
This does show an inherent problem with these statistics. I think I'm not the only atheist, agnost or deist by a long shot who never heard there was such a register. I did hear you can get debaptized (don't know, may be a wrong translation), but frankly I don't care enough about religion to bother going to the trouble to "break my bond with God" in the Catholics eyes.
@kainniak1 so then what's the (estimated) r value if it's so obvious? And I did look at the more than the top 10, I could only fit the top 6 into 500 characters or less.
How could any one even take ID serious when the defenders of it back out of court and the basis for ID were based on ignorance (Behe not knowing about the evolution of the immune system and blood clot but was shown to be wrong)?
@GreatBigBore Yeah, I looked him up after reading his paper on Dembski a few years ago. I'm watching a debate with Shallit and some guy named Kirk Durston in the video called Should a 21st Century Scientist believe in God? Kirk Durston is preparing to have his ass handed to him right now. This is gonna hurt ...
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, Having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
Galatians was written by Paul to a group turning back to Old Testament principles. He thought this egregious and wrong in light of Jesus setting us free from a law he called weak and miserable. He says the Old Testament was a form of slavery of limited value for a limited time to lead us to Christ and to show we could never attain righteousness by a system of law.
Galatians 4 Why are you turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?
Galatians 5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Do not let Yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery(the Law). Mark my words! I, Paul, tell u that if u let Yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to u at all and u will be obligated to obey the whole law and will be alienated from Christ, fallen away from grace.
Now, I've anticipated you referencing the Old Testament which I could defend but that takes much education in truth. So I'll say this. Jesus never killed anyone but advocated dying for our friends, rather than killing our enemies. His Apostles never killed - they all shared this in common - healing the sick, raising the dead and then being martyred for their message and love. That's the story of Jesus - just add resurrection. Now I'll post a few verses showing Christ obviated the Old Testament.
Hi GBB - you asked for my analysis: sure. You fell into a familiar groove: indicting God for the sins of man. That doesn't work at all: Hypocrites have always existed - those who betray a principle beneath a mask of pretense. What's a sinner have to do with Jesus, a sinless man? You don't have to be a theist to get this in concept? If I don a cub scout uniform and kill - doesn't doesn't mean cub scouts are bad - means I'm bad since no provision to kill exists in the cub scout manual.
Actually, I was hoping you might comment on my review of the debate, whether you had any response to my criticisms of Dembski's lies, deceit, and faulty reasoning.
@NoOrdinaryCity "Give me your top 2 objections or accusations"
1. Dembski opens saying that he intends to address the existence of god. He does not even attempt to do so, although he speaks for 15 minutes.
2. Dembski grossly and deliberately misrepresents Chapter 6 of Hitchens' book "God Is Not Great" to create an obvious straw man as fuel for much of his opening remarks. Start with Part II(c) of the series for details.
@GreatBigBore Perhaps...but these are not substantive errors pertinent to the topic at hand. Hitchens is full of faulty logic. He says no man can impose a moral code upon him, but he condemns Iraq, Islam, pedophiles, all theists - and by what standard? Aren't Muslims right because they can crush small countries? How can an atheist say Saddam Hussein was wrong to torture people? Saddam thought it was a-okay - without a universal code there can be no condemnation: might makes right.
@Synthmilk Your terms, logic, detrimental, progress, are black boxes.
If there is no God, as you say, there is no right or wrong - nature, the universe, atoms - none care if anything "progresses" lives or dies. Life is just an anomaly in space. When there is nothing, no mind, no right or wrong - how in the hell can you of a sudden magically create a definition for progress or detrimental?
I don't understand the grammar of your question at all, from an atheist point of view.
If A implies B, and B implies C, then A implies C. That's basic logic, and it doesn't depend on the existence of a magic creator or even a mind to think it.
"Detrimental" and "progressive" are subjective, yes, but that doesn't mean that morality itself ("right and wrong") cannot exist without a god to dictate it. Evolution made us altruistic (the harmful tended to be ostracised and hence less likely to procreate). So our morality is a natural phenomenon. No magic required.
@TheAnniepies You could not be more wrong. Type "logic" into google. Sorry your "erudition" as so failed you, but logic is NECESSARILY a human construct and has NO MEANING outside of humanity. Human Logic REQUIRES a creator - and it has one indeed- Mankind. Ask a Math, Science, Philosophy Professor or someone well versed in Game Theory such as my friend from Harvard/Princeton.
With great sadness and apology - your words have made everyone here dumber for reading them.
Blah, blah, blah. The definitions of logic include "correct reasoning; valid induction or deduction" and "necessary connection or outcome, as through the working of cause and effect". These are NOT dependent on the existence of human (or any other) brains to comprehend it.
The SCIENCE of logic (ie, of correct reasoning) does not even need a humans--it would exist in principle without sentience.
And your insulting "apology" only serves to reveal your deceptive and compromised mind.
imo, I don't think renound Dr. Dawkins should engage creationists in debate but I see no reason why people like us shouldn't. When he engages in debate, he wastes valuable time that could be used in the lab. When we engage in debate, we educate the public. The mere fact a writer can even hold a candle in a debate against DI's top "scientist" is very telling. I don't mind wasting time to give Dawkins and hard working scientists more time in the lab.
Thank you, Sir. My very first thought was, NO, this is nothing like football, and how typical of mainstream sheeple to equate it with such. It also reminded me of a commercial for a 30 min Sunday service offered by a local church whose pastor compares his sermon style to Dale Sayers' football techniques. Do we see a pattern here?
the only thing i tend to disagree with is that there is a correlation between atheism and peacefulness. the peacefulness could be for other reasons. i dont know that anyone has really studied this, there is only speculation that that is the reason (although i wouldnt be surprised if it really WAS the reason)
@lambchopxoxo "correlation between atheism and peacefulness"
Granted. I didn't want to overstate the case there. My main point was simply that countries with a high incidence of atheism aren't showing any signs of being overrun by murderous dictators. Hey, honored that you watch my stuff. Impressed with your openness concerning your journey.
I've the same basic problem with the legal system. The goal, especially on the part of the prosecutors and police, should be solely to find the truth not to "win".
@shlarg I am by no means an expert on this, but I remember learning in some class or other about the adversarial system, where both sides tried their hardest to win, and the truth magically came out of this conflict. It seems to me that the US government, which is replete with ex-lawyers, works by the same method. This is not a comforting thought.
@shlarg The justice in our system is meant to be served by the defending attorney having just as much incentive to "win". With both sides trying as hard as they can to prove their case, the truth will out.
The problem isn't the design of the system, it's the implementation. Our current society is riddled with people more concerned with "winning" than the truth. This corrupts the way cases are argued and how judges rule. That's the trouble.
Yes, Yes I was told by a reliable source that Atheism is not only a religion but also an chocolate snack bar, a type of polyvinyl, and has a secret handshake, that only "true" atheist know after being inducted into the club. Good to see you brother! "wink, wink".
... not because we want to see them be defeated, but because we want people to know - in a way that they will remember - the actual facts, the research surrounding these facts, and the value of universal knowledge rather than dogmatic obedience to one ancient tribe's storm-god.
@limegreensquid "not because we want to see them be defeated"
Dunno, I kinda like seeing some of the more intentionally deceptive ones handed their asses from time to time, Comfort, Craig... pretty much anyone from the DI as well.
"one ancient tribe's storm-god."
Yahweh always struck me as more of a volcano god, or fire god, he likes crispy critters, smoke and the smell of charring flesh. Several of the descriptions of his manifestations are similar to a volcano as well.
@Ammdar Well, of course, the more obviously dishonest manipulator types, yes. I meant that's not the only goal.
I forgot about the volcano aspect. That one's relatively new to me. I originally had just read the book "God: The Biography" in which it explains his origins as, and evolution from at least 2 Babylonian gods: a god of storms and lightening, and a snake god of some sort. It's been a while, though. I could be remembering what i read wrong. I should pick up that book again...
That's EXACTLY what i've been saying! It's important to debate with people like this because people are watching. If we can disillusion one theist fan by our arguments, while helping a struggling atheist to feel not so alone, to allow one person to realize they no longer have to submit to the intentions of the superstitious, then mission accomplished.
The debatee may never turn from their opinion, so it's your job to show everyone else why his arguments are foolish and completely invalid...
if you're looking for something new, there's a rapper called greydon square who raps about atheism and science. I'd recommend his new album the kardashev scale. his earlier works are also good. Its interesting because he weaves in original arguments against god in his lyrics.
"Engage" he he. I love trying to figure out the correlations in the pictures you choose. Another great video. Thanks for the link too, I've been looking for that.
I love knowing that some of you guys are out there trying to figure them out. It's fun to know that you get it, but it also encourages a certain impishness, a desire to be really obscure and have you scratching your head the whole time.
The problem with these debates is not so much that you're giving a forum to the scientificly illiterate or charlatans but that these debates in general have a format that favors emotional arguments over rational arguments. They only serve to increase belief in the irrational and doesn't help rationality in any way, which is why charlatans like Craig love them so much !
OutOfTheBoxThinker 9 months ago
@OutOfTheBoxThinker I think that the Christians deserve at least one skilled sophist such as Craig. I couldn't even finish the Hitchens-Dempski debate. It was like watching a 13 year old girl getting raped by Mike Tyson.
Fray2221 9 months ago
I do not understand why people say that God is 100% good all the time. The old testament is clear when it proclaims God having knowledge of both good and evil and even doing evil, such as sending an "evil spirit" to torment Saul. I guess evil and sin are two different things.
I guess the moral of the story is, "It is only a sin if anybody who isn't God does it. If you are God, you can't possibly sin, because you have special privilege and the ability to torture all you appose you forever."
FlowCell 10 months ago
Yes sir... Nothing to say I agree 100 I guess i could disagree but like he said it is only about winning or losing.
PeckerGoblin 11 months ago
i agree with the narrator's opinion of debates. i never understood how people were said to 'win' a debate when the whole point, as far as i could ever tell, was to get the other side to understand your viewpoint, but in watching debates it seems to be more about how many people agree with which party that determines who 'wins'... if that's how it ends up, everybody loses... because no one's 'considering' ... just looking for what they already agree with
GodsArePeopleToo 11 months ago
lmao wtf, the side of the baby killer. at first I thought you was talking about the religious defender....
roadkill1001 1 year ago
I like how the sponsors for the debate completely show their hand in a matter of seconds. They aren't interested in a search for the truth, they are solely interested in their "team" obtaining "victory". Such a rather... ego-driven pursuit helps nobody except it's holder, because it does not lead to a profitable exchange of ideas.
ExtantCrocoduck 1 year ago
@ExtantCrocoduck Take a look at the study guide which was sent out to the students. Actually the "school" sold them for $35 a piece to their "students." It's a complete joke.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict I did watch GBB's excellent dissection of the guide, which as he pointed out could have easily been written by one of their own students, given the lack of logic and proper spelling, word choice, and punctuation. I actually wagged in with a few additional flaws that GBB didn't comment on. "A complete joke" is definitely a good way to put it.
ExtantCrocoduck 1 year ago
It might have been said before, but the "Baby Killer" comment, while I understand it to be hyperbolic, isn't in this case accurate as Christopher Hitchens has stated sentiments against abortion in several speeches he has made. Just thought I'd be a nitpicky bastard <_<
sciencemile 1 year ago
I'm brushing my teeth
jorn1233 1 year ago
Christianity is a mental illness.
sidelingscroll 1 year ago
@sidelingscroll AMEN!! LOL
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
The Shallit report is a great read! Thanks :)
noelectricmonk 1 year ago
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Jesus' words commend themselves and need not be defended. The only begotten Son of God has shown the power to illuminate any individual, culture or nation that truly puts his laws of love into practice. You go your way, Jesus and his lambs the other. Do whatever your heart finds to do, but know you will give an account for every deed and careless word. Matthew 12.36
TruthPlanet . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe My invitation for you to join the conversation remains open.
GreatBigBore 1 year ago 11
@HowDareWe No it hasn't and yes they do. Prove there is a god.
Please do go your own way, just stop trying to drag everyone down with you into madness.
But keep in mind this is the only life you get so you had better act morally now instead of depending on a loophole that your religion provides where you get to act grossly immorally and then say, "Oops, my bad." History will judge religion and it will be found guilty. Me 19:56
Kludge420 1 year ago 3
@Kludge420
Without humor - without sarcasm - chances are - I will see you in hell. Your arrival there is all but certain.
I may see you from above or laterally - I'm not sure. But I call on Jesus and am called by Jesus' name. Maybe he will vouch for me...maybe not. But you will burn without remedy.
I've sojourned the intellectual and spiritual ends of the earth a while now. I am merciful - but my soul inexorably involuntarily cries - SHOW NO MERCY TO THOSE WHO SAY "prove there is a God."
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe And you are a batshit crazy asshole. There is no hell, there is not heaven, you're just a confused douche bag that is too stupid to realize just how stupid you are. Go back to your ignorant bullshit mythology in the sure knowledge that you're are wrong, dead wrong. You sir are a retard.
Kludge420 1 year ago
@HowDareWe You sound like a gangster. "If you don't claim my clique and act just like me, you're gonna die." Sorry, but only an idiot would be convinced by that approach.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict Youtube attracts evil simple idiots peddling the most transparent and revolting reductionist stupidity, unable to acknowledge or engage complex topics antipodal to their complacent self serving God hating lifestyles whose out of control fleshly indulgences multiply sorrow, grief and trouble upon the earth. Your day is coming.
TheAngel . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe Sorry, but I'm not a mind slave so I don't respond to that kind of talk. If that kind of intimidation and condescending bullying persuaded you to become a mind slave to religion then I don't have much respect for you. In fact I have none at all. It is your mentality (wearing the mask of "Jesus' love") which is pushing us towards religious armageddon in this world.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict If only you could nullify or reduce the infinite arguments, the broiling cauldron of evidence, testimony, observable social phenomenon, history, et al. down to one alleged gangster-like misstatement, you might escape Hell.
GentleIslam . com
RuleTheWorld . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe Jesus is the ultimate gangster... Matt. 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (10:34-36)
I came not to send peace, but a sword. ... A man's foes shall be they of his own household."
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Christianity is an immoral belief system.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@HowDareWe and I'll be laughing at you when you're worm food and your eternal reward never comes. The Jesus cult is simply a plagiarization of sun-god cults which came before it. Your god gave you the gift of logic and reason, which is the only thing which distinguishes you from the lower animals in this world, yet you threw that gift in the trash in order to believe this superstition. A total waste of the one and only life you will ever have.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@HowDareWe
"Jesus' words commend themselves and need not be defended"
Jesus was a buffoon. The only halfway worthwhile things he supposedly said got ripped from other religions wholesale.
MomoTheBellyDancer 1 year ago
@HowDareWe America has something like 10% atheists, the country has an extremely high murder rate, horrible health care and is generally a prejudice country that continues to start wars. Many African and Middle Eastern countries have 00 - 5 % atheists and they are suffering and in a state of war. A lot of those regions are still also in the middle ages. Countries like Sweden with 80% atheists are some of the happiest coutries in the world. I think that is proof that religion doesn't help nations
PrivateJoker17 1 year ago
GreatBigBore - you are a typical Liberal, really a troll. You throw out challenges, condemnations and accusations - that's what your channel is about. You also sent them to me. I blew them all out of the water. In my years speaking to your kind - they simply pretend their pretenses were not destroyed. This is what you have done - because each allegation against God, Jesus, Scripture, Old Testament even the nature of truth - was shown for the thin charades they are. Cogency is wasted here.
IslamisWar 1 year ago
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IslamisWar 1 year ago
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@GreatBigBore Jesus knew he would not convert most of the Jews, who were much more intelligent and educated than you are. However, when those with understanding and reason see your every challenge demolished, some will come closer to the truth.
Your narcissistic myopia is astounding - with such a crowd watching youtube - who says these words are not for them, knowing a curmudgeon mind like yours WILL NEVER BE SAVED. Aggressive stupidity is hard to forgive. Expect condemnation.
TheAngel . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe I extend an open invitation to you to join the conversation. You have not participated in it so far. I have no response to your insults and assertions. Please, feel free to say something meaningful. I'm listening.
GreatBigBore 1 year ago
@HowDareWe
People like you are the reason others question their faith. People that warn of condemnation based solely on the fact that their opinions differ. I loathe and thank you at the same time. Fuck you for being so closed minded, but thank you for helping me realize no loving God would ever create a piece of shit like you.
Speedeefeet 1 year ago 2
@Speedeefeet I've never spoken to you before in my life. Until now. All I know is that you prefer the most vile kind of language and refer to human beings made in God's image as feces. Likely, you impress yourself with this: to your corrupt mind it's powerful language. Truth is, you've said nothing supported, substantive or persuasive. My arguments are all found in Scripture. Take Jesus at his word and live or reject his words and die in your sins. You have many chances to repent - take them.
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe
Your attempt at "intelligence" to appear righteous is actually quite amusing. Speak in laymen's terms and people might not view your opinion with such contempt. I have read your previous comments and I expected more after reading your "smart: banter. Everything you say is anecdotal and cannot be backed with empirical evidence. You only quote scripture... and don't tell me to repent if you do not know my faith.
Speedeefeet 1 year ago
@Speedeefeet I know you - for out of the overflow of a man's heart - his mouth speaks. As the words are vile and godless, so is the man. You wax mysterious and unknown to feign innocence, but whom do you fool? No man is good, no man is innocent. All have sinned and fallen but may re-enter childhood innocence, even Paradise, through the only gateway given to mankind: Jesus Christ who loved you and was crucified for your sins.
TheAngel . com
RuleTheWorld . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe
Are you supposed to judge me like that? Doesn't your religion tell you something about that? Anyway, you should stop trolling comments and get back to something useful, like killing yourself.
Speedeefeet 1 year ago
@HowDareWe "Truth is, you've said nothing supported, substantive, or persuasive". This is rather ironic, as I fail to see a single comment by you where you provide any substance to back up your points. A couple times you make vague noncommittal statements which could be developed into a substantial argument, but you never elaborate on them. Aside from those 2-3 cases, you simply quote the bible, without demonstrating why we should consider it a reliable source.
ExtantCrocoduck 1 year ago
@ExtantCrocoduck Oh...sorry....I can help you...see...what happens is....regarding elaborate substantiated multi-faceted arguments complete with exhibits, supports and the array of proof appropriate....is that...
WE ARE ON YOUTUBE YOU JACKASS.
True...the "we are on youtube you jackass" point is not elaborated...but see...how can I put this in a 500 character box...oh yes...
WE ARE ON YOUTUBE YOU JACKASS. Google your questions you cheap lazy rat bag. Nothing new under the sun
TheAngel . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe What am I supposed to google? You haven't referenced any arguments for me TO google. You don't even have to lay out the whole argument. Just name the argument, or the basics of it, and I'll have either heard of it, or will look it up. Then we can discuss it. I don't know exactly why you're so pissed off at me, or exactly why I'm a "jackass", but whatever.
ExtantCrocoduck 1 year ago
@HowDareWe You're one of those schoolyard bullies who gets his ass kicked so he gets on the internet and bullies people with religion. What a failure you are.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@HowDareWe Christianity is a great source of evil in the world
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
We just want to go on sinner?
Wait, who is that? HOLY SHIT, I DO WANT TO SIN!
Screw god. I'm going with the sexy pirate.
snowboarderforlyfe 1 year ago
Both Jesus and Paul condemned the Old Testament Laws - and any theologian worth his salt knows the Old Testament period was a necessary period of misery discarded like a dirty rag when the reality of Christ appeared. But let the Apostle Paul tell it.
Love,
TheAngel . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
One of many Old Testament obviations: Notice "Canceled the written code"
Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, Having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
HowDareWe 1 year ago
Galatians was written by Paul to a group turning back to Old Testament principles. He thought this egregious and wrong in light of Jesus setting us free from a law he called weak and miserable. He says the Old Testament was a form of slavery of limited value for a limited time to lead us to Christ and to show we could never attain righteousness by a system of law.
TruthPlanet . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
Galatians 4 Why are you turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?
Galatians was written by Paul to a group turning back to Old Testament principles. He thought this egregious and wrong in light of Jesus setting us free from a law he called weak and miserable.
Galatians 4 Why are you turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?
Love,
TheDevil . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
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Galatians 5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Do not let Yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery(the Law). Mark my words! I, Paul, tell u that if u let Yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to u at all and u will be obligated to obey the whole law and will be alienated from Christ, fallen away from grace.
Love,
GentleIslam . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe "Galatians 5," "Galatians 4," "Galatians," "Colossians 2:13"
Do you not understand that these bible reference are useless unless we can establish that the bible is a legitimate document? I could quote from Homer all day long but it wouldn't count as support for any argument about the nature of reality. Please, join the conversation, or bugger off.
GreatBigBore 1 year ago 29
@GreatBigBore Excellent - I'm glad you retract all condemnations from the Old Testament with this latest statement that the Bible is not admissible. So why were you making an ass of yourself quoting it against Christianity, if it's not admissible?
If you can use it to condemn God and Christ, any court would also allow its use in a defense...even a child knows you can't have your cake and eat it to :-)
FAIL :-)
And if you think words have no inherent meaning - you don't belong in this debate
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@GreatBigBore hey friend where can i find the 1:55 picture of God doing what catholic priests do
Atrofia2 8 months ago
@Atrofia2 Hmm, I think I Photoshopped that from "The Creation of Adam." Surely someone else out there has done it before me, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. You could probably find something like it if you look for "The Creation of Adam" in google images.
GreatBigBore 8 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
3 witnesses can testify at a trial, all saying different things, each concluding the suspect is innocent or guilty - and all three can be right. You do not understand the nature of perspective. Take yours for instance - it's wrong. Nor do you understand the term apparent contradictions. Nor do you understand good is as good does. Even if Bill Gates made a copy of the Bible and introduced errors, it would be impossible to pull enough Christ out that it didn't transform people.
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe "You do not understand"
This is an assertion. If you can't support your assertion, then it's as though you haven't said anything.
GreatBigBore 1 year ago 22
dude, sorry, I'm watchin this and I can't help thinking your voice sounds like Taub from House. Anyway, great vids!!!
suirammae 1 year ago
hey christians...does this sound familiar. "2 million ppl believe in something so they cant be wrong, o wait....the world revolves around the sun? well then i guess we were all wrong...."
moreopiumplz 1 year ago
a PSUDOMATHEMATICIAN!!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! LMAO!!!
And I though I'm not that good in math!
emancoy 1 year ago
Apologists are great, they are easily forced to define thier god into a distant nebulosity wich most of the religeous need to be exposed too. You can allmost allways get them to argue for deism, usually against thier will. Getting them to inadvetantly teach deism is far better than christianity or islam.
phookadude 1 year ago
@GreatBigBore Tautalogical -"Rudimentary morality appears" "When our brains got huge??" Are you a child? You think in the thickest of crayola crayon terms. Time to put the crayons and scissors with rubber ends away and challenge your premises.
You're straight from an Owellian novel - you've believed all the critically unanalyzed black boxes big brother has given you. Awake from your delusional matrix. Take the Red pill, leave wonderland. The gospel of John is the Red Pill
TruthPlanet . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe You typed a lot of words but you didn't manage to say anything. What are you accomplishing by speaking to me in this way? Do you really think that you're going to convert me? Is Jesus happy with the way you're representing him? Please, join the conversation or bugger off.
GreatBigBore 1 year ago 7
@HowDareWe "The gospel of John is the Red Pill"
What colours are the pills of the other three gospels where they differ from or outright contradict the gospel according to John?
You have to take the blue pill just believe that's the red pill.
PatchesRips 1 year ago
@Synthmilk In that case, my condolences on your blindness.
TruthPlanet . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
No atheist can say that 2 Billion Muslims are wrong when they spread a book teaching them to bury women up to their necks, lifting jagged rocks in their hands, throwing them until the woman's face is a screaming crying quagmire of pulped human flesh. For her and her children this will be her last memory on earth under Islam.
They say it's right, and so are child marriages wherein girls often die or collect fistulas during birth. By what authority do you condemn this?
IslamisUnlawful . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe "By what authority do you condemn this?"
I reject your implication that an authority is required in order for me to condemn human rights violations. Rudimentary morality appears in all social creatures. When our brains became huge, we got better at empathy. As we become more civilized, we get better at empathy. As science progresses, we get better at recognizing detriments to human well-being. No appeal to authority is required. Now we have the data.
GreatBigBore 1 year ago 3
@HowDareWe "No atheist can say that 2 Billion Muslims are wrong when they..."
You are wrong on two counts. First I can say it's wrong because I am the judge of what I determine is wrong.
Second, the bible itself s fails to condemn this and even condones it in places. Yes you can interpret parts to say killing is wrong but even more places make it clear yahweh is a bloodthirsty SOB. Ask the Jebusites, Philistines, Ammonites or eqyptian first borns... oh wait nevermind...
dlandon2000 1 year ago
@HowDareWe By what authority do you condemn this? You have no more proof for your version of things than Muslims do. You both have old books and a plethora of unsubstantiated assertions.
You assert that the Gospel of John is "the red pill". How about the gospel of Matthew? Specifically 5:17, when Jesus makes it clear that we're still supposed to follow Jewish Law. By what authority do you omit the rules about slavery and selling your daughter, from your own holy book?
t3tsuyaguy1 1 year ago
@t3tsuyaguy1 Matthew 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Do you purposely ignore the 2nd clause and qualifier?
What's the EVERYTHING God wished to accomplish? Did Jesus fulfill the law and accomplish it and is it everything? Any real Christian can help you understand what Christ accomplished. Don't expect it in a youtube box though.
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe Wow dude. I miss things all the time, but I ignore nothing. You however, have ignored the permanence AND dominance of the first qualifier "until heaven and earth disappear".
You can assert whatever interpretations you like of what Jesus meant by "everything is accomplished", but you are not free to ignore the continued existence of heaven and earth.
t3tsuyaguy1 1 year ago
@t3tsuyaguy1 I can remain white and go to Disney World, provided Mom sends money for the tickets. The Prison can stand and I can be free, provided the Governor issues a pardon.
True, a handicapped or ESL student thinks: The White Man can NEVER go to Disney World...but the sharp tool notices the "until Mom sends that cash."
Demolished. Next.
TheAngel . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@t3tsuyaguy1 Besides, the antecedent qualifier is nullified by the subsequent qualifier:
As Long I remain a WHITE PERSON, I WILL NOT GO TO DISNEY WORLD, UNTIL Mom sends money for tickets.
As long as this prison stands, I will not get out, until the Governor grants me a Pardon.
TruthPlanet . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe Really guy?? False analogies. Misrepresentation. That's the way? You can't honestly believe that because it is possible to construct valid sentences with disqualified antecedents, that every sentence with two qualifiers favors the secondary at the exclusion of the primary. You are clearly not that stupid; so, I'm left with, you are full of shit.
Jesus uses two qualifiers for increased clarity of subsumation. The law is eternal and separate from the covenants Abraham and Jesus.
t3tsuyaguy1 1 year ago
@HowDareWe "By what authority do you condemn this?"
The same authority that lets us condemn your religion when it tells us that "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and caused hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people in Europe and North America to be suffered not to live on that basis from the 12th Century (at the latest) up to and including the 17th. That's still a part of your religion. The fact that you ignore it these days is largely thanks to the protests of naturalists.
PatchesRips 1 year ago
When I heard the kid talking about "schemes" before the debate, I could hardly believe that these people would be so transparent about their motives. Once again the blatant dishonesty of these theists has exceeded my expectations.
tctheunbeliever 1 year ago
err why the picture of patrick steward close to the end?
S1nwar 1 year ago
@S1nwar LOL I'm glad you pointed that out. My guess is that it's because he said "engage."
tctheunbeliever 1 year ago
The Peace index list is a bit deceptive by combining Palistine's and Isreal's score and then listing it just as Isreal! No doubt that is the number one reason why Isreal is 6th from the bottom at #144!
mjh012363 1 year ago
@mjh012363
Because Palestinians are turning the other cheek? Didn't think so, they aren't any more peaceful than Israeli's.
SSTTEEAALLTTHH 1 year ago
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@SSTTEEAALLTTHH "Because Palestinians are turning the other cheek? Didn't think so, they aren't any more peaceful than Israeli's."
Huh??? I believe my point was that Palestine pulls Isreal down on the peace index. They're two different countries now and should of been evaluated seperately. What the peace index did was akin to combining UK's peace index with the US index thereby pulling UK's index down. (At least I think UK's is higher than US I'll have to check.)
mjh012363 1 year ago
@mjh012363 Palestine isn't a country. At least not yet. Never has been a country. Yasser Arafat (I think it was) chose that name and the idea of a Palestine nation to unite the Arabs deposed by the creation of the state of Israel in 1948. No, he didn't choose it in 1948. That's when Jews were granted their own land called Israel by the UN.
ottifantsir 1 year ago
@ottifantsir "Palestine isn't a country."
Um...news flash. It officially became one in 2005 and promptly went into civil war within a year breaking into Fatah led West Bank and Hamas led Gaza.
mjh012363 1 year ago
Looking forward to your commentary. One question, who is in the black and white image at 4:47 ?
soulure 1 year ago
@soulure "who is in the black and white image"
It's a painting, I think, but now I can't find it out there. I was looking for a face that might give the impression of hatching a nefarious plot. I have the impression that it's not a famous person. You can download it from here if you like:
dl.dropbox.c o m/u/6907882/schemer.jpg
GreatBigBore 1 year ago
@GreatBigBore Thank you!
soulure 1 year ago
I feel really bad for that kid.. Try and learn the other team's schemes and come up with our own.. ugh..
megamarsvin 1 year ago
Random Patrick Stewart portfolio shot?
cstrand31 1 year ago
Evangelists: Possessing a great "truth" they need to deceive others in order that they may accept it.
ShadowPa1adin 1 year ago
HA! I was wondering how you were working in the dough....
CityzenJane 1 year ago
4:03 I looked at the two articles you posted and did not see any "obvious correlation". Key Word: "Obvious".
New Zealand, top on the peace list (PL), is 29th on the Atheism list (AL).
Iceland is # 2 on the PL, #28 on the AL.
Japan is # 3 on the PL, # 5 on the AL.
Austria is # 4 on the PL, # 24 on the AL.
Norway is # 5 on the PL, # 4 on the AL.
Ireland is # 6 on the PL, and well below the AL list!
It would be interesting to actually run the data, and I would, but I don't have the time :/
BuBBaGump014 1 year ago
@BuBBaGump014 "obvious correlation"
I thought it was fairly obvious that none of those at the top of the AL are being overrun with violence, i.e., AL tops tend not to be PL bottoms.
GreatBigBore 1 year ago 6
@GreatBigBore they also tend to be (are?) first-world countries with high education levels :P education might be the confounding variable that explains both the atheism and the peacefulness. Actually, the Human Development Index seems to correlate better with Atheism than peacefulness.
BuBBaGump014 1 year ago
@BuBBaGump014 wasnt new zealand the country that killed the first europeans to discover the place? then all those musket wars for years
LordoftheJamesClan 1 year ago
@BuBBaGump014 I would argue anyway that the statisics for Ireland are wrong because most Irish atheists that I've encountered are still registered as catholic.
Most people I know are atheists but only 1 has changed the register to display this.
explosivoification 1 year ago
@explosivoification
I was unaware there was such a register.
SSTTEEAALLTTHH 1 year ago
@SSTTEEAALLTTHH That's where most of the statistics come from, when you're baptised and have your confirmation you're registered as catholic until you change it.
explosivoification 1 year ago
@explosivoification
Oh, I think I'm baptized... Where would you change such a register? City hall, the church you were baptized in, ...?
SSTTEEAALLTTHH 1 year ago
@SSTTEEAALLTTHH
You need to send a letter somewhere requiring to be removed from their lists... I don't think it is to your parish, but to a somewhat higher level, possibly your diocese (sorry about the sketchiness, I just recall reading it in a newspaper once). I also roughly considered doing it, but as I'm not even currently living in my native country it's too much of a bother... funny how this topic also came up in a dinner I had just yesterday...
uvauva2 1 year ago
@uvauva2
Yea, I looked into it, and on number of Belgian atheistic/agnostic/deistic websites you can even get an example of the letter in which you only have to fill in your name and such. It's indeed directed to the diocese as it seems.
SSTTEEAALLTTHH 1 year ago
@explosivoification
This does show an inherent problem with these statistics. I think I'm not the only atheist, agnost or deist by a long shot who never heard there was such a register. I did hear you can get debaptized (don't know, may be a wrong translation), but frankly I don't care enough about religion to bother going to the trouble to "break my bond with God" in the Catholics eyes.
SSTTEEAALLTTHH 1 year ago
@SSTTEEAALLTTHH Debaptizism is different, it's just a meaningless ritual.
Yeah I didn't bother either because I just don't take catholicism seriously.
explosivoification 1 year ago
@BuBBaGump014 ireland on the peace list. interesting
stevao 1 year ago
@BuBBaGump014 it was obvious to me lawl, you dont just look at the top country on each list look at the top ten on each list
kainniak1 1 year ago
@kainniak1 so then what's the (estimated) r value if it's so obvious? And I did look at the more than the top 10, I could only fit the top 6 into 500 characters or less.
BuBBaGump014 1 year ago
Just a thought, but your video made me think what is the difference between a degree in theology vs a degree in mythology?
Royaleah 1 year ago
How could any one even take ID serious when the defenders of it back out of court and the basis for ID were based on ignorance (Behe not knowing about the evolution of the immune system and blood clot but was shown to be wrong)?
HybridD91 1 year ago
debates are not about convincing the debater, tis about convincing the audience
Retlaww 1 year ago
Jeffrey Shallit's report on Dembski is the best pwnage ever! Also, check out Jeffrey's Recursivity blog.
DarwinsChihuahua 1 year ago
@DarwinsChihuahua "Recursivity"
Cool, I didn't know he even had a blog. Thanks.
GreatBigBore 1 year ago
@GreatBigBore Yeah, I looked him up after reading his paper on Dembski a few years ago. I'm watching a debate with Shallit and some guy named Kirk Durston in the video called Should a 21st Century Scientist believe in God? Kirk Durston is preparing to have his ass handed to him right now. This is gonna hurt ...
DarwinsChihuahua 1 year ago
Why is Patrick Stewart there?
Ag8MrE 1 year ago
@Ag8MrE "Why is Patrick Stewart there?"
"Engage." Some times I'm funny, some times not.
GreatBigBore 1 year ago
One of many Old Testament obviations: Notice "Canceled the written code"
Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, Having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
NoOrdinaryCity 1 year ago
Galatians was written by Paul to a group turning back to Old Testament principles. He thought this egregious and wrong in light of Jesus setting us free from a law he called weak and miserable. He says the Old Testament was a form of slavery of limited value for a limited time to lead us to Christ and to show we could never attain righteousness by a system of law.
Galatians 4 Why are you turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?
NoOrdinaryCity 1 year ago
Galatians 5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Do not let Yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery(the Law). Mark my words! I, Paul, tell u that if u let Yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to u at all and u will be obligated to obey the whole law and will be alienated from Christ, fallen away from grace.
Love,
GentleIslam . com
NoOrdinaryCity 1 year ago
Now, I've anticipated you referencing the Old Testament which I could defend but that takes much education in truth. So I'll say this. Jesus never killed anyone but advocated dying for our friends, rather than killing our enemies. His Apostles never killed - they all shared this in common - healing the sick, raising the dead and then being martyred for their message and love. That's the story of Jesus - just add resurrection. Now I'll post a few verses showing Christ obviated the Old Testament.
NoOrdinaryCity 1 year ago
Hi GBB - you asked for my analysis: sure. You fell into a familiar groove: indicting God for the sins of man. That doesn't work at all: Hypocrites have always existed - those who betray a principle beneath a mask of pretense. What's a sinner have to do with Jesus, a sinless man? You don't have to be a theist to get this in concept? If I don a cub scout uniform and kill - doesn't doesn't mean cub scouts are bad - means I'm bad since no provision to kill exists in the cub scout manual.
NoOrdinaryCity 1 year ago
@NoOrdinaryCity "you asked for my analysis"
Actually, I was hoping you might comment on my review of the debate, whether you had any response to my criticisms of Dembski's lies, deceit, and faulty reasoning.
GreatBigBore 1 year ago
@GreatBigBore Give me your top 2 objections or accusations and I'll oblige.
Love,
GentleIslam . com
NoOrdinaryCity 1 year ago
@NoOrdinaryCity "Give me your top 2 objections or accusations"
1. Dembski opens saying that he intends to address the existence of god. He does not even attempt to do so, although he speaks for 15 minutes.
2. Dembski grossly and deliberately misrepresents Chapter 6 of Hitchens' book "God Is Not Great" to create an obvious straw man as fuel for much of his opening remarks. Start with Part II(c) of the series for details.
GreatBigBore 1 year ago
@GreatBigBore Perhaps...but these are not substantive errors pertinent to the topic at hand. Hitchens is full of faulty logic. He says no man can impose a moral code upon him, but he condemns Iraq, Islam, pedophiles, all theists - and by what standard? Aren't Muslims right because they can crush small countries? How can an atheist say Saddam Hussein was wrong to torture people? Saddam thought it was a-okay - without a universal code there can be no condemnation: might makes right.
NoOrdinaryCity 1 year ago
@NoOrdinaryCity Is it not logical that actions that are detrimental to the progression of a species be classified as "wrong"?
If you disagree, please explain.
Synthmilk 1 year ago
@Synthmilk Your terms, logic, detrimental, progress, are black boxes.
If there is no God, as you say, there is no right or wrong - nature, the universe, atoms - none care if anything "progresses" lives or dies. Life is just an anomaly in space. When there is nothing, no mind, no right or wrong - how in the hell can you of a sudden magically create a definition for progress or detrimental?
I don't understand the grammar of your question at all, from an atheist point of view.
TruthPlanet com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe I do not see how any of what you have just said, prevents you from answering the question.
If you don't have an answer, you can just say so.
Synthmilk 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Synthmilk In that case, my condolences on your blindness.
TruthPlanet . com
IslamisWar 1 year ago
@HowDareWe
If A implies B, and B implies C, then A implies C. That's basic logic, and it doesn't depend on the existence of a magic creator or even a mind to think it.
"Detrimental" and "progressive" are subjective, yes, but that doesn't mean that morality itself ("right and wrong") cannot exist without a god to dictate it. Evolution made us altruistic (the harmful tended to be ostracised and hence less likely to procreate). So our morality is a natural phenomenon. No magic required.
TheAnniepies 1 year ago
@TheAnniepies You could not be more wrong. Type "logic" into google. Sorry your "erudition" as so failed you, but logic is NECESSARILY a human construct and has NO MEANING outside of humanity. Human Logic REQUIRES a creator - and it has one indeed- Mankind. Ask a Math, Science, Philosophy Professor or someone well versed in Game Theory such as my friend from Harvard/Princeton.
With great sadness and apology - your words have made everyone here dumber for reading them.
TheAngel . com
HowDareWe 1 year ago
@HowDareWe
Blah, blah, blah. The definitions of logic include "correct reasoning; valid induction or deduction" and "necessary connection or outcome, as through the working of cause and effect". These are NOT dependent on the existence of human (or any other) brains to comprehend it.
The SCIENCE of logic (ie, of correct reasoning) does not even need a humans--it would exist in principle without sentience.
And your insulting "apology" only serves to reveal your deceptive and compromised mind.
TheAnniepies 1 year ago
imo, I don't think renound Dr. Dawkins should engage creationists in debate but I see no reason why people like us shouldn't. When he engages in debate, he wastes valuable time that could be used in the lab. When we engage in debate, we educate the public. The mere fact a writer can even hold a candle in a debate against DI's top "scientist" is very telling. I don't mind wasting time to give Dawkins and hard working scientists more time in the lab.
Ripley747 1 year ago
haha athiesimist.
PowerfulSplicer 1 year ago
Where can i watch the debate in full ??
0ptimusbibIe 1 year ago
@0ptimusbibIe "debate in full ??"
See links in the love bar.
GreatBigBore 1 year ago
@0ptimusbibIe
/view_play_list?p=8F787B048BADE521
wakeupfist 1 year ago
Thank you, Sir. My very first thought was, NO, this is nothing like football, and how typical of mainstream sheeple to equate it with such. It also reminded me of a commercial for a 30 min Sunday service offered by a local church whose pastor compares his sermon style to Dale Sayers' football techniques. Do we see a pattern here?
galxe12 1 year ago
hey gbb,
i am excited to see you address the closing prayer from the vid... i was bullshit when i saw it.
Stead3111 1 year ago
Nice pic of Cole and Micah Miller! Both of those boys can fight!
kdog78m 1 year ago
the only thing i tend to disagree with is that there is a correlation between atheism and peacefulness. the peacefulness could be for other reasons. i dont know that anyone has really studied this, there is only speculation that that is the reason (although i wouldnt be surprised if it really WAS the reason)
lambchopxoxo 1 year ago
@lambchopxoxo "correlation between atheism and peacefulness"
Granted. I didn't want to overstate the case there. My main point was simply that countries with a high incidence of atheism aren't showing any signs of being overrun by murderous dictators. Hey, honored that you watch my stuff. Impressed with your openness concerning your journey.
GreatBigBore 1 year ago
@GreatBigBore thanks. i always appreciate your comments on my vids :)
lambchopxoxo 1 year ago
I've the same basic problem with the legal system. The goal, especially on the part of the prosecutors and police, should be solely to find the truth not to "win".
We have a legal system but not a justice system.
shlarg 1 year ago 4
@shlarg Excellent comment and totally agree.
Dwicker64 1 year ago
@shlarg I am by no means an expert on this, but I remember learning in some class or other about the adversarial system, where both sides tried their hardest to win, and the truth magically came out of this conflict. It seems to me that the US government, which is replete with ex-lawyers, works by the same method. This is not a comforting thought.
tctheunbeliever 1 year ago
@shlarg The justice in our system is meant to be served by the defending attorney having just as much incentive to "win". With both sides trying as hard as they can to prove their case, the truth will out.
The problem isn't the design of the system, it's the implementation. Our current society is riddled with people more concerned with "winning" than the truth. This corrupts the way cases are argued and how judges rule. That's the trouble.
t3tsuyaguy1 1 year ago
I just watched this debate! Good timing!
absb075 1 year ago
Yes, Yes I was told by a reliable source that Atheism is not only a religion but also an chocolate snack bar, a type of polyvinyl, and has a secret handshake, that only "true" atheist know after being inducted into the club. Good to see you brother! "wink, wink".
pumpstations 1 year ago
Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobbie.
rehetbutler 1 year ago
great, im looking foreward to the next videos :) thanks!
amisy11 1 year ago
More like DUMBSKI.
I'll be here all week.
Joerexia 1 year ago
@Joerexia "DUMBSKI"
instantrimshot. c o m
GreatBigBore 1 year ago
@Joerexia
Yup. Too easy. :)
wakeupfist 1 year ago
Great prolog, I surely will enjoy the series.
DeletedDelusion 1 year ago
Dembski, Dembski, Dembski...*shakes head* you poor, poor sad little man.
MobileThinker 1 year ago
... not because we want to see them be defeated, but because we want people to know - in a way that they will remember - the actual facts, the research surrounding these facts, and the value of universal knowledge rather than dogmatic obedience to one ancient tribe's storm-god.
limegreensquid 1 year ago
@limegreensquid "not because we want to see them be defeated"
Dunno, I kinda like seeing some of the more intentionally deceptive ones handed their asses from time to time, Comfort, Craig... pretty much anyone from the DI as well.
"one ancient tribe's storm-god."
Yahweh always struck me as more of a volcano god, or fire god, he likes crispy critters, smoke and the smell of charring flesh. Several of the descriptions of his manifestations are similar to a volcano as well.
Ammdar 1 year ago
@Ammdar Well, of course, the more obviously dishonest manipulator types, yes. I meant that's not the only goal.
I forgot about the volcano aspect. That one's relatively new to me. I originally had just read the book "God: The Biography" in which it explains his origins as, and evolution from at least 2 Babylonian gods: a god of storms and lightening, and a snake god of some sort. It's been a while, though. I could be remembering what i read wrong. I should pick up that book again...
limegreensquid 1 year ago
That's EXACTLY what i've been saying! It's important to debate with people like this because people are watching. If we can disillusion one theist fan by our arguments, while helping a struggling atheist to feel not so alone, to allow one person to realize they no longer have to submit to the intentions of the superstitious, then mission accomplished.
The debatee may never turn from their opinion, so it's your job to show everyone else why his arguments are foolish and completely invalid...
limegreensquid 1 year ago
My favorite words that to me contests the idea of a good all loving god is . . . predation.
Swidhelm 1 year ago
if you're looking for something new, there's a rapper called greydon square who raps about atheism and science. I'd recommend his new album the kardashev scale. his earlier works are also good. Its interesting because he weaves in original arguments against god in his lyrics.
Basicpiviot 1 year ago
@Basicpiviot have you heard Baba Brinkman yet? only rapper to have a peer reviewed album, called 'The Rap Guide to Evolution', epic album and artist.
MobileThinker 1 year ago
"Engage" he he. I love trying to figure out the correlations in the pictures you choose. Another great video. Thanks for the link too, I've been looking for that.
Amy2838 1 year ago
@Amy2838 "Engage"
I love knowing that some of you guys are out there trying to figure them out. It's fun to know that you get it, but it also encourages a certain impishness, a desire to be really obscure and have you scratching your head the whole time.
GreatBigBore 1 year ago
Right on. Could not have been more spot on....peace
CBTENGR100 1 year ago
merh
RevDevilin 1 year ago
This is very talented,strongly articulated,well presented evidence against the idea the theology has a place in the natural world
inquiry10 1 year ago
did you know atheism is a religion? it is also a court ruling.
420messenger 1 year ago
@420messenger No, it's not, and what?
PyreOfFate 1 year ago