The Atheist Experience: episode #696 (Caller: Mark) 2/13/11

[LOGIC42369]

pwnd

[socksumi]

This guy is an obvious poe. First question I would have asked "Mark"... name two pastors at the Austin Stone Church? That would have busted him as a prankster and avoided a lot of wasted time.

[Yahya76]

Hello to everyone of faith and hello to those of no belief :)

I would like to post an invitation to any person who likes a challenge.

The challenge is this:

Read, learn, and , mostly, understand The Qur'an and find ONE example of contradiction or error.

Surah al-Baqarah, verse 2:

" This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah "

[Tumoxa89]

@Yahya76 No mistake in there: U scared to shit. another question is: did u really have to fear of Allah?

[Yahya76]

@Tumoxa89 I certainly fear Allah, no doubt about it.

I didn't really understand what it is that you were asking me, though. Can you re-phrase the question, please ?

[Tumoxa89]

@Yahya76 Well what i wanted to say, is that fear only leads to a bloodshed. So,.. why do u need it? If u need it then Quran is ur guidance, If u looking for a Truth and freedom, then researches and thinking is ur guidance.

[DarkBunnyLord]

@Yahya76 Sure, how about it stating the earth is static (ie no rotation of any sort). That took 3 seconds and there's plenty more.

[kyoopihd]

@Yahya76

skepticsannotatedbible[dot]com > "Quran" > "Contradictions"

There's a whole list.

[Yahya76]

@kyoopihd Lol, as expected, that site is in English language, not Arabic. Good try but you'll have to do much better than that. I meant find a contradiction in Qur'an, not in A-Translation-of-The-Qur'an. As soon as you translate it into any other language, it is no longer al Qur'an . I hope that clears things up.

[kyoopihd]

@Yahya76 The point of translation is so people can communicate across languages. Just because a document isn't in its native language, doesn't mean that the ideas aren't depicted correctly.

The translation used on that website was done by Marmaduke Pickthall, an Islamic Scholar, and it was authorized by Al-Azhar University. If I were to learn Arabic and read the Quran for myself, I would find exactly the same contradictions I found in the English translation.

[Yahya76]

@kyoopihd If you sincerely believe what you just wrote to me, then i feel sympathy for you. The reasons there are contradictions in the TRANSLATION of the Qur'an is because not every language is identical. There are no contradictions in Arabic-language Qur'an, because only that IS Qur'an, all others are, as stated, translations.

Peace.

[kyoopihd]

@Yahya76 So, as someone who is supposedly fluent in both Arabic and English, you claim that every single one of the contradictions illustrated on the aforementioned site are inaccurate? That someone reading the Arabic version would not be able to see the same conflicting concepts?

Indeed, not every language is identical, and translations aren't perfect. But it's ridiculous to propose that some of the top Arabic academics on the planet can't convey some simple Arabic concepts in English.

[kyoopihd]

@Yahya76 If you're not capable of reading the original Quran yourself, why did you initially claim to have knowledge of its supposed lack of contradiction? Furthermore, how can you "understand" it the way I apparently don't?

And by the way, it seems you and I have different definitions as to what it means to understand something. Your definition seems to include reading two contradictory statements and accepting both of them. Well, at least when reading your holy book.

[Yahya76]

@kyoopihd The answer is because you, clearly, have made your mind up regarding the content of Qur'an, so therefore there is really no point in discussing anything with you. In your head, Qur'an = written by man/contains contradictions. At no point did i say i was an Arabic language expert, that's something you assumed, maybe from what i had written.

I repeat: knowing something is one thing. UNDERSTANDING it is a whole other thing entirely. Do you comprehend that ?

[kyoopihd]

@Yahya76 I know (with as much certainty as I have about a great many things) that the Quran, along with any other holy book, was written by people. Until EVIDENCE is presented to suggest otherwise, there's no reason everyone else shouldn't come to the same conclusion.

I do comprehend the difference between knowing something and understanding it. Perhaps you should enlighten me as to what it is I don't understand.

[Yahya76]

@kyoopihd I WILL enlighten you to this, if you are somehow unaware: You want to believe the Qur'an contains contradictions, so you, unsurprisingly, will find things which YOU believe are contradictions. I have neither the time nor the inclination to debate with someone who has already made their mind up. To you, your way. To me, mines.

Good day to you, i shall not be responding again as i find this dialogue to be stunted, self-aggrandising (on both sides) and frankly dull.

Peace.

[tamu77095]

@Yahya76 lol u r a closed-minded idiot sir. good luck in your life sir. with which im sure you'll end up nowhere

[Yahya76]

@tamu77095 Yeah, you who knows me so well ! Who are you, exactly, and why should i care ? Enjoy your life. To you your way, to me , mines. There really is no point in me wasting time with atheists and kuffar who have already made up their own tiny minds in what they WANT to believe. As MR T said: I pity the fool. Actually, I don't pity you kfrs.

And my life is going swimmingly, thanks for your best wishes. But the best part comes when this life ends and anther begins :)

Enjoy oblivion.

[PokeyMeansBusiness]

@Yahya76

If you want to prove us wrong so much, why don't you call the Atheist Experience and debate with them?

[Periph1989]

@Yahya76 Why do you assume that we want to not believe in a god? Of course I would like to have a god look after me and love me. But that doesn't mean I can believe it. The evidence isn't there. Just because you say "our minds are made up" doesn't mean our minds can't change. IF YOU GIVE US A GOOD REASON, WE WILL CHANGE OUR MINDS (i capitalized it so you can understand).Enjoy wasting the only life we KNOW that we're going to experience, hoping for an afterlife that has not been proven to exist.

[twooffour]

@Yahya76

If you can't justify those contradictions, you have no point. The end.

[kyoopihd]

@Yahya76 But none of that matters: I have read enough reliable, academic sources that I'm confident the contradictions are there even in the Arabic version. I accept this for two reasons: 1) The only people who claim that the translations are incorrect are Muslims, who have a bias and presupposition that the Quran is infallible; 2) Even if the contradictions WEREN'T there, it would make absolutely no difference to me. -continued-

[kyoopihd]

@Yahya76 I never said you were an Arabic language expert. I believed you to be fluent enough to read the Quran, and here's why:

You said the Arabic Quran doesn't have contradictions, when only the translations do. How do YOU know if you can't read it? That was the only reason I thought you could, because you asserted to have knowledge about the Arabic Quran. And, by the way, it was you who quoted a translated verse from the Quran in the first place. -continued-

[tamu77095]

To the religious: your beliefs are similar to those of a child's belief in Santa Claus and should be ridiculed as such. You do not deserve to be taken seriously about your beliefs in the supernatural because laying claim to something without evidence is not how a mature, rational mind should work. peace

[stratocaster539]

This is miking 193, I recognise this deep out and intakes of air.

[alex39977]

I'm pretty sure he became an atheist right after that call.

[EASYTIGER10]

Jeff and Matt. The Stan and Ollie of the Atheist Experience

[kyoopihd]

Wicked. Richard Dawkins has learned of the show and is interested in it:

tinyurl [dot] com/4ophk9y

[hgryphon]

This guy "Mark" is a professional show caller. I've heard him more than once on Coast to Coast AM (Art Bell's conspiracy and alien show).

[alex39977]

were not holding there sandwich hostage for jesus. lmao ..priceless..

[pieceofdebri]

Matt destroyed that poor guy. Next time have your notes handy, Mark. Haha...

[TheGongstar]

Matt you are awesome. I only wish the Christian callers to the show would come better prepared.

[weirddudeonice]

Well.. um... you see there's proof of... well there's no proof exactly... it says here that... well I know it's disproven but... This is my new favorite way to spend my evenings.

[GMunny5]

damn, that guy just had the displeasure of facing theistic slaughter.....

[alternanick]

I like Matt's response much better, since it starts from a sympathetic point, having been formerly a religious person, and guides the caller through reasoning instead of being oppositional.

[unclemeat1977]

Wish I could see Jeff's initial comments. Getting told he's going to hell is one of his personal pet peeves. Matt kills it here though.

[kyoopihd]

@unclemeat1977 Just go to the Atheist Experience website; all the full episodes are there in the archive. But if you want to see this particular episode in full so you can catch Jeff's initial comments, I'll put a link to it in the description.

[TheAtheistExperience]

@kyoopihd

The complete call is here: /watch?v=-oxfVg48X18

This is he best part though.

[kyoopihd]

@TheAtheistExperience Sweet.

[Cameron4963]

Matt just shook that bible thumper's world.

[christcox52282]

I love Mark's "huuhhhh..well"

[coutsoulis]

Matt has the potential to become the next Hitchens

[OccamsKatana]

@coutsoulis - to be honest - I think Matt is a bit better than hitchens in the respect that he hits the nail on the head far more and harder than hitchens does.

Hitchens likes the debate to much and wishes it would go on and on eventhough he could end it at any point.

[coutsoulis]

@OccamsKatana Agreed

[CIarKent]

Matt just keeps better and better.

he has reached the level of Christopher Hitchens, Dawkins, Sam Harris, Dan Barker

just brilliant