There is not a single libertarian boogeyman about "socialism" that doesn't apply directly to capitalism. Not a one. Misery? Tyranny? Bureaucracy? Lack of social mobility, government transparency, personal freedoms?
Look up the history of capitalism. Not the idea, the actual societies in the West starting with the Industrial Rev. Look up the endless instances of political cronyism, racial exploitation, war profiteering and other such "market failures". Only rich profits. Only tools back them.
IT DOESN`T WORK IN CANADA!!!!! Our conservative government has given us a good trade surplus and is slowly balancing the budget. Were not socialists yet. I fear were heading in that direction though because stupidity is the majority now.
For all his talk about American empire and government lies, Joe Rogan's thinking is completely enmeshed in the capitalist system. He wonders how it is that war profiteering and other forms of cronyism occurs in the "greatest country on earth", but in the end he doesn't question any of the basic axioms of capital accumulation. Any moron defending unconditional private property in the abstract (that is, including resources, industries and other means of production) is a middle-class tool.
I might not know as much as you but based on my current knowledge I don't think joe knows as much as he thinks he does hear. I don't think these questions are as easy as he's making them sound. maybe in some way that aligns with your comment. I'm not sure.
And anyone who cannot comprehend the idea of freedom is a government tool. Listen here and listen well ok. Capitalism is not a war driven system, business is not a war driven game either. It may seem that way with weapons dealing, infrastructure investments after a war but this is a result of a free for all de regulated system. Governments are a real problem in society today and will continue to be as long as we have the bureaucracy. Pick a system they all fail in the end
@Reido2828 that's retarded socilism is if anything more productive in terms of weath for society than capitalism. Do you not understand the logistics? The capitalists fill their pockets with their profits. 1%of the Us population has 50% of the wealth and pays as much tax as everyone else. Imagine if all the profit went back into society.
What a distortion you just did. Socialism is not productive AT ALL. I have yet to see a good socialist state in society. If your example is Europe then understand that money trafficking has increased on that continent by 160% since they instated these 75% tax hikes. The reason these capitalists get the money in their pocket so easily is because the government is not doing its job. its not enforcing proper regulations or going after the corrupt trades men. Its so fucking simple
Pete Johansson says we should all be less greedy, while at the same time complaining because his neighbor who succeeded in his own way in life has more than him. And furthermore he advocates that society should forcibly take it away from him. Greed is a two way street you dumb fuck, Mr Johansson. If you want to try and be less greedy, maybe you should whine a little less about the things your neighbor has hmm?
Rockefeller is scum! Kid has a point about concentration though but socialism isn't the answer but capitalism needs serious regulation. Our regulators don't regulate shit because the fox is guarding the hen house.
I wonder if this socialist thief believes that a rich person who makes bad investments and ends up in a couple million in debt, should be able to pass that debt off to poor people??? It is the same principle.
Joe Rogan does not "school" anybody here. He's just comes across as a typical opinionated american who's been brainwashed with the idea of a NBA-like society. Progressive taxation is great! The welfare state is great!
the scary thing about guys like Pete Johannson is that they *think* they're these well-thought-out intellectuals, but really they're just idiots. he sounds like a fucking marxist scumbag, but I'm sure he has no clue that he does. the entire system he's agitating for has one major flaw: it requires human beings to not act like human beings. human nature is real. assholes like him pretend that it's not.
@TimeWarp66 Capitalism doesn't work either in the way that it inevitably evolves into people receiving free resources which become even greater resources which they in turn inflate down a bloodline. Capitalism is an assumption of social/monetary equality. What exists is social balance, not equality, What soon won't exist is monetary balance which in turn leads to economic depression,
I'll tell you something about Canada. The reason it's mostly middle class is the Go v keeps everyone down. Constantly raping the people via tax audits, and other buracrats, organizations and devices built in to take anything you make. I dare you to try and be a millionaire in Canada. You'll have dozens of g ov agents banging your door down and stealing anything and everything you have! You'd be amazed. It's just sick.
And if people understood economics they wouldn't argue for socialist BS. Allow me to explain how the poor has their standard of living increase SUSTAINABLY longterm:
First, drop the emotional arguments. Now, capital is accumulated. That's invested in technology. That raises productivity per worker. Total real compensation (wages+benefits) rises with consumption. Then consumption rises as compensation rises. This creates larger profits and more capital accumulation. Slow that cycle, grow poverty
@ProIndividual That's a theoretically interesting idea, but the rise in the accumulation of capital for decades now has not lead to anything resembling a parallel rise in the overall standard of living for the working class. And it's not because the government has done too much.
@ProIndividual The socialist "bs" certainly seems to be working for many countries...mainly certain parts of western Europe, Scandinavia, Australia (socialist to an extent) New Zealand, Canada etc...Which are all doing far better-economically at the moment than the wondrous US..Care to explain that one Milton Friedman boy??? Seems to be working in those countries.
But some random youtube blogger says if you understand economics socialism can't work!!!! Dur Deeee Dur!!!!!!!!!!!,
Tax is extortion on the threat of kidnapping (prison). All I hear is rationalization for extortion by the mafia (state) within their gang turf (borders; geographic monopoly on social contracts).
Here's an idea. Privatize highways, schools, everything. You already pay tolls, it's called gas tax at the pump. No one is locked out of the road market if private that is in the market now. Tax, toll, wtf is the difference? I'll tell you the difference...tolls are more cost effective so it's cheaper.
This is kind of crazy because Joe is basically arguing to give his money to his kids. Kind of hard for him to talk on the subject as he himself is wealthy and successful
@CJStrongheart Why? What's wrong with him wanting to choose where the money he has made in his lifetime go to places he wants it to, rather than government forcing you to have that money go towards what they want? Why does him being wealthy make him less qualified to give his opinion on the subject? Should my opinion be valued higher than his, simply because I am not rich? Should stoners not have a voice on the subject of re-legalization just because they want to smoke cannabis?
taxation is theft...simple...if there was a 0% income tax rate their would be no debate here...consumption tax is fine...it doesn't work in Canada...48% of the income tax collected comes from the top 10% of income earners...I'm sick of my money taken by governments and given to causes or groups without my conscent to buy votes...it's like a crook coming to my door with a gun and saying I want 35% of your money...going to give it to someone else...total BS
@mike6459 You consented as soon as you began playing the money game, and there's a lot worse happening in the world outside the tragedy of the top 10% losing too much in taxes. It could be worse.
anyone who mentions liberal or conservative, your post isnt worth reading. in fact your part of the problem. get rid of this partisan politics bullshit and start basing things on good ideas...not political policies
Schools him? It was debate that wasn't heated, and they agreed on several points. Not sure this is a schooling so much as an interesting, respectful debate.
@apocalyptichybrid2 A fair is a flat tax. The people who have more money because they work harder shouldn't lose a higher percent of it for working harder than most.
@1778owen None taken, it's absolutely 100% true! When the subject of government corruption comes up, Canadians are quick to point the finger at their southern neighbors. WAKE UP Canada, this is nothing more than a draconian Nazi police state! Did you see what happened at the G20 summit in Toronto? I couldn't fucking believe I was looking at my city and not New York or Chicago or L.A. Please pull your collective heads out of your asses!
The female in the video is talking out of her ass. I live in Toronto Canada and was born and raised here. The gap between rich and poor has never been greater. These people are nothing more than left-wing nuts.
This notion that less fortunate people are "entitled" to the same things as wealthier people is completely fucking outrageous. You want something, you EARN it. Everyone doesn't get a Ferrari and a million dollars just because it's "fair". Liberalism really is a mental disorder.
@JusticeBlaze1 Theres so many rich punk kids around who didn't earn shit. How many kids run companies their parents started, and they just got a lucky roll of the dice and were born into that family? What did they earn? I know alot of people who bust their balls every fucking day trying to make ends meet and don't get shit. Its totally fair that 1% of the population controls almost half of the wealth, isn't itodd that number has never changed? We live in a system designed to keep the rich, rich.
@Hobomedic Are you jealous of their amassed wealth? If so, get of your fucking ass and do something to amass your own fortune! Where do you think their rich parents/grandparents etc. started? Who the fuck are you or I to say it's not fair? If you had amassed a fortune and wanted to leave it to your kids, you'd be singing a different tune. LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL ILLNESS!
@JusticeBlaze1 o.0 Jealous? Maybe, I would be down to make millions of dollars and leaving it for my kids. But I wouldn't be down making millions of dollars, and leaving it from some douchebag kid that never did shit thinking he was entitled to everything I earned.
@JusticeBlaze1 And while a few people manage to break out, and make a couple million dollars here and there, doesn't mean the system is fine. The saying, "It takes money to make money" holds true. Look anywhere and you can see this is true. The rich continue to amass wealth, while everyone else fights for what's left. Massive companies come in, wtf pwn everyone else. Now that Mom and Pop dont have a store anymore they get a job at safeway, getting paid shit wages. While some doucher makemillions
Economy is more complex than just "tax", tax is just one factory of a big equation that is "distribution of wealth".
How socialistic a country could be based on how much resource per person that country has? Canada has so much natural resource with so few people. They can support everybody to do well. Where as city like Hong Kong in which there are closing 1 billion of people in one CITY, of course you cannot be Anywhere near socialistic, there is literally nothing to be shared in HK...
it would be good is people simply were that way, giving away all their money. but the govt should never cross the line and force generosity upon people.
I love joe rogan but the only non simpleminded thought he had during this was 9:08-9:31 then he ruined it by basically saying that were not mature enough to evolve in the extreme way that this guy is in visioning watch zeitgeist and go plant a tree and stand for something otherwise your thoughts are worthless and your a selfish conformist to busy to help anyone or anything go spread your decay pussy...
Joe's overlooking the fact that money = power. That's the problem with allowing some individuals to have vastly more wealth than others. They can buy politicians.
the socialist here is an idealist.. he wants to believe that the government would be responsible.. but joe hit it on the head, the bureaucratic government as is exists right now is corrupt and wont use your money for the good of the people. Christs idea of giving to the poor is solid in a socialist idea, because it is important to sustain equality and prevent a nobility class.
To mandate the extraction of money, upon ones death, totally negates the purpose of money. If you want to make the argument that society should run on trade, or whatever else that isn't money, I see your point. What's being suggested here, is irresponsible. Personal liberty, and private property go hand in hand. To mandate this, you'd be infringing my rights, and if I was wealthy enough, I'd hire a militia to protect my money, even if it meant every cent of it was spent on it's protection
LOL @ the rockerfeller society? who the fuck would give their life savings to someone who spends that amount of money in a day, Rockerfeller is beyond wealthy, its at the point now where they don't even need money because they have so much power and influence. the guy joe rogan is talking to is a douche and is not representing Canadians in any way.
I'm not here to shit on anyone but no one is taking account population density. Comparing America and Canada is like comparing automobile accidents to plane crashes. We are talking about 300 million Americans, and under 40 million Canadians there's no comparison. Aside from that the gap between rich and poor will only further increase with the stupidity of the modern market. Before blaming government think about it you in couldn't change shit.
man alot of people in the comments section here like to force feed their message. the dogma around here is palpable. why can't we talk this shit out like joe and the canuck?
Fact is, the more a country looks like a social democracy, the higher the quality of life for all of its citizens. Americans are brainwashed into seeing anything other than their form of socioeconomic system as something to be feared.
@rhth79 no unfortunatly its not the case. i was born in sweden(one of the most socialist countries in the whole world) and i didnt understand how bad it was untill i moved to Thailand (a much poorer country) and you cant even compare their hospital service. In sweden you need to wait up to 16hours with a broken arm, in Thailand they fix you direct. And in Thailand everyone who works get a hospital card! Also socialist countries become a magnet for parasites from the middle east and africa.
@MakeAGameWithMe Take a closer look at what I'm saying. Quality of life is indeed higher. When you talk about wait times you're actually talking about rationing of health care, not quality of life. In the US it's rationed based on income, here in Canada it's rationed based on need. I'm not narcissistic, so to me the better system is clear. What you call parasites I call human beings.
@rhth79 Well iam not narcissistic either, but iam a realist and understand that moeny doesnt grow on trees, and if hundreds of thousands of people who have never tributed anything to the country comes every year to live of the welfare then that mean they need to take money from other things in society. thats why in Sweden old people are treated like animals. Old people in Sweden who worked their whole life get less money then immigrants who havent paid a cent in taxes, is that fair?its socialism
Well done! I, too, am inclined to support a system of triage based on need, rather than income. MakeAGameWithMe's quip about "parasites" especially surprised me, since it basically had nothing to do with anything and came out of nowhere. Not exactly the smartest thing to say, eh?
Some places up north in Canada are actually similiar to what the chick was saying. in some northern towns even miniumum wage will get you by to the point where you can get ahead as long as you don't spend too much on beer and smokes lol!
Joe is totally right, I'm a Canadian and the chick who says that the poor in Canada have a quality of life akin to the rich in her city of 98'000? People in my home town of 350'000 who are poor live on much much less than people even in the quote "middle class" was this chick from some northern upper-Canadian paradise town? What Canadian world did she live in?
@JohnnyH1982 Quality of life is inclusive of much more than just money. Health care plays a major role in determining quality of life. You have that in Canada and that makes a huge difference. Poor in the US just don't bother with hospitals and health care.
Okay, this stupid tool wants people a) not strive to be super rich, b) give up all inheritances, and then goes on to complement the ROCKEFELLERS! What the fuck?
@thisisbullshit20 Canadians aren't like this? There are 30+ Million of them... do you know them all? Scots are cheap and the French are rude too right? Let me guess... You're from Alberta right? Cuz all Albertans are conservatives... *facepalm*
Socialism is the beast that powers a damaged sick government . Maybe folks should worry more about laws protecting corporate wold wide domination . Not some man that wants to give his children his earnings. Socialism will keep me down .. And my son and his son .. It's the trick to control the world . Government controls all . I'm American !!! Capitalism is the only way !!! Stop making corporate giants and china rich! If my friend works twice as hard ... He gets twice a
Whoever Rogan is debating this with has an affinity for big words and loud mouthed opinions. He love the sounds of own voice and it shows in his speech pattern
It was a great conversation, nobody really owned anybody. They probably both learned from each other. This is how shit should be. You can agree/disagree whatever, but not yelling and blindly taking positions on things.
This is a conversation between two educated men, Joe Rogan goes ape shit on people when schooling them :p I don't agree with the Johansen guy about inheritance either but he is right about how we should be evolving as humans to get away from our primate roots. Unfortunately, I don't see this happening until we somehow evolve to all have a higher IQ and understanding.. I've pretty much given up on the human race for this lol
@XyiSti It's hard to see it at times but I think more and more people are waking up from the American Dream and realizing Materialistic consumer culture is a dead end.
Too bad Canada was barely touched by the economic collapse due to our strict regulations on banks. How did deregulation work for the US? How's that 'free market' economy working out for the US? I don't care if Rogan schooled a Canadian. Canada schooled the world during the global economic crash. End of argument.
Canadian - I hate rich people because I'm not one of them and I think they form a separate class. We should take all their money when they die in order to create a separate class that I approve of.
Joe - People should be free to do what they want with their own property so long as they're not hurting others.
This "Canadian" is inherently contradictory and embarrassingly stupid. He comes off as a whiny, selfish child.
Who really cares what the guy from the t.v show survivor has to say about anything? Judging by the comments on all of his youtube videos you would think this guy is a God of some sort. He subscribes to the idea that we evolved from ape's by eating magic mushrooms haha. He went on a few shroom trips and discovered DMT now he thinks he can save the world. Classic example of a guy who discovered drugs later on in life and thinks he is onto something the rest of us know nothing about. haha
The guy Joe is talking to might be Canadian, but he does not share the same view that most Canadians do.. Terrible title to the video. I'm from Halifax and a huge fan of Rogan!
WOW...evolve past currency? gain more rights and titles? thats messed up!! he's talking about the same crap he's riling against! meeeeesssssed uuuuup!
@dirksilver As a Canadian, socialism isn't really MORE rights, nor is it equality. It's just a different way of thinking. Yes, I believe we need to go back to a more gentlemanly way of life, but I don't think the government should be able to tell us whats right and whats wrong. That should be left ot the individual. It's all just a personal balance.
@AVEYoungCeasar i think you're misunderstanding what i'm saying and who i'm talking about...i'm a libertarian man! it's all about individual rights and freedoms in my book...free markets baby!
4:45 Lady... I'm Canadian and I sure as hell would have a higher standard of living if I was rich. Take Kelowna for example. If you're rich in Kelowna, you live in a multi-million dollar house in a beautiful suburb or a safe community. If you're lower-middle class, you better watch your back as you stroll through Rutland!
fuck yeah, I would leave my kid(s) all my money... if my kid doesn't want to work (really who does) and I had the means to provide a comfortable life, why the hell wouldn't I? We the middle class are so damn stubborn and proud, that's why most of us stay middle class.
@hobbso They're both used for leftist indoctrination. I suppose you're a product of that indoctrination. It's hard to speak to someone like that because they get very offended if you don't share their opinion.
that "socialist" is retarded... he was talking about how children gaining large inheritances and how that will recreate serfdom.. and Then he talks about phasing out currency with Titles and a "gentlemen's" class... that title shit sounds like the beginnings of serfdom to me......
Joe is a smart guy but the guy who's he talking too is stupid and blind and same for that dumb chick they both go off track all the time people like that are what kills this world,unsure and blind weak asses
@jimmycrackedcorn226 Actually socialism means a lot more than that. It means implementing a mechanism by which wealth is allocated to a central source which ultimately has or is reliant on an entity with a monopoly on violence to re-distribute. The rich and powerful have historically been able to pull the curtain over the eyes of the workers while they manipulate politicians and currencies in order to make profits that could never be realized in a true free market system.
@dperrineucsb You clearly know nothing about economics or political philosophy. What you described can be equally as applicable in a capitalist system. Power concentrates anywhere you allow it to, like in capitalism.
And what is this "True Free Market" you talk about? Such a thing cannot exist, because of two very fundamental reasons: 1), Perfect information is not available to all parties, and 2), there ALWAYS exists a barrier to entry. So let's cut this crap about "True free markets."
wow this guy joe rogan is arguing with is an actual dumbfuck.... looks like his kids are gonna fucking hate him, that is if he can find a dumb enough cunt to marry his retarded ass
yeah well go sell your fucking bike then hippie
johnnybravo182 6 hours ago
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77 ppl have salt in their clam
413whiteninja 1 day ago
Good conversation, bad title for the video.
var1able 1 day ago
pure socialism isn't right nor is pure capitilism
BlackOpsSnipa 2 days ago
EVERYTHING IS FUCKED UP EVERYWHERE
skillz139 2 days ago
in canada all the taxes get pooled and more bureaucrats are hired to think up more ways to tax us.
canada is a socialist's wet dream.
alistairthegreat 2 days ago
I'm Canadian and these Socialists are pathetic...Joe Rogan #1
ogradyrw 3 days ago
There is not a single libertarian boogeyman about "socialism" that doesn't apply directly to capitalism. Not a one. Misery? Tyranny? Bureaucracy? Lack of social mobility, government transparency, personal freedoms?
Look up the history of capitalism. Not the idea, the actual societies in the West starting with the Industrial Rev. Look up the endless instances of political cronyism, racial exploitation, war profiteering and other such "market failures". Only rich profits. Only tools back them.
GodlessXVIII 3 days ago
IT DOESN`T WORK IN CANADA!!!!! Our conservative government has given us a good trade surplus and is slowly balancing the budget. Were not socialists yet. I fear were heading in that direction though because stupidity is the majority now.
Reido2828 4 days ago
For all his talk about American empire and government lies, Joe Rogan's thinking is completely enmeshed in the capitalist system. He wonders how it is that war profiteering and other forms of cronyism occurs in the "greatest country on earth", but in the end he doesn't question any of the basic axioms of capital accumulation. Any moron defending unconditional private property in the abstract (that is, including resources, industries and other means of production) is a middle-class tool.
GodlessXVIII 4 days ago
@GodlessXVIII
I might not know as much as you but based on my current knowledge I don't think joe knows as much as he thinks he does hear. I don't think these questions are as easy as he's making them sound. maybe in some way that aligns with your comment. I'm not sure.
dreamextreme7 4 days ago
@GodlessXVIII
And anyone who cannot comprehend the idea of freedom is a government tool. Listen here and listen well ok. Capitalism is not a war driven system, business is not a war driven game either. It may seem that way with weapons dealing, infrastructure investments after a war but this is a result of a free for all de regulated system. Governments are a real problem in society today and will continue to be as long as we have the bureaucracy. Pick a system they all fail in the end
Reido2828 4 days ago
@GodlessXVIII
But at least Capitalism allows us to share unequally in the benefits while socialism allows us all to share equally in the misery. Think about it
Reido2828 4 days ago
@Reido2828 that's retarded socilism is if anything more productive in terms of weath for society than capitalism. Do you not understand the logistics? The capitalists fill their pockets with their profits. 1%of the Us population has 50% of the wealth and pays as much tax as everyone else. Imagine if all the profit went back into society.
Lan5in6 3 days ago
@Lan5in6
What a distortion you just did. Socialism is not productive AT ALL. I have yet to see a good socialist state in society. If your example is Europe then understand that money trafficking has increased on that continent by 160% since they instated these 75% tax hikes. The reason these capitalists get the money in their pocket so easily is because the government is not doing its job. its not enforcing proper regulations or going after the corrupt trades men. Its so fucking simple
Reido2828 3 days ago
what a dumb conversation
alphamalezbr 4 days ago
Im offensive and i find this Canadian
triplekill36 5 days ago
keep your flithty hands off my money hippies
drunkNbored9 6 days ago
"Rogan schools Canadian Socialist", lol he didn't school anyone.
TheBertstare 1 week ago
I am Canadian as well and these guys are idiots. They have no idea what liberty is.
ariieess 1 week ago
I'm Canadian an I hate these fucking assholes!
6evorev6 1 week ago
Pete Johansson says we should all be less greedy, while at the same time complaining because his neighbor who succeeded in his own way in life has more than him. And furthermore he advocates that society should forcibly take it away from him. Greed is a two way street you dumb fuck, Mr Johansson. If you want to try and be less greedy, maybe you should whine a little less about the things your neighbor has hmm?
FestorsFeast 1 week ago
I agree with Rogan.
YksiSuomalainen 1 week ago
Johnson and Johnson made their money selling heroin, Rockerfeller was a racketeer and they were all crooks.
secretbubba3 1 week ago
Rockefeller is scum! Kid has a point about concentration though but socialism isn't the answer but capitalism needs serious regulation. Our regulators don't regulate shit because the fox is guarding the hen house.
secretbubba3 1 week ago
pay your fair share and shut the fuck up joe!!
brownie7317 1 week ago
Donate to the Rockefeller foundation? Are you kidding me?
JusticeVonBrandt 1 week ago
I wonder if this socialist thief believes that a rich person who makes bad investments and ends up in a couple million in debt, should be able to pass that debt off to poor people??? It is the same principle.
Socialism breeds irresponsible. Capitalism breeds competition.
MatthewRider1 1 week ago
Joe Rogan does not "school" anybody here. He's just comes across as a typical opinionated american who's been brainwashed with the idea of a NBA-like society. Progressive taxation is great! The welfare state is great!
MrWrof 1 week ago
Key point: "we need to try to evolve past currency..." Right on, P.J. I don't see where Joe schooled him, though.
TheBrimstonetitan 1 week ago
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@a1exgerman me too and i agree as well!
saltfleet123 1 week ago
this guy, its like he wants something to label him
he needs a label thats what is getting me, why does he need to label himself a gentlemen or w/e just be who you have to be.
infinity2kx 2 weeks ago
those idiots are a shame to canadiannssssss
kelseysamazing 2 weeks ago
im canadian & i think FUCK PETE JOHANSSON !
kelseysamazing 2 weeks ago
should be titled canadian destroys joe rogan on every single point rogan tried to make...literally
cholofracasado 2 weeks ago
Im canadian and Joe is right. Socialism is a fail.
a1exgerman 2 weeks ago
@a1exgerman Me too, and I agree
jeffms2 2 weeks ago
the scary thing about guys like Pete Johannson is that they *think* they're these well-thought-out intellectuals, but really they're just idiots. he sounds like a fucking marxist scumbag, but I'm sure he has no clue that he does. the entire system he's agitating for has one major flaw: it requires human beings to not act like human beings. human nature is real. assholes like him pretend that it's not.
madbowler6 2 weeks ago
@madbowler6 how does that make human beings not act like human beings?
DMChester12 1 week ago
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@Vincent776 how is he destroying him? I don't understand what is to be destroyed? its an opinion.
conday1990 2 weeks ago
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@Vincent776 how is he destroying him? I don't understand what is to be destroyed? its an opinion.
conday1990 2 weeks ago
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@Vincent776 how is he destroying him? I don't understand what is to be destroyed? its an opinion.
conday1990 2 weeks ago
@Vincent776 how is he destroying him? I don't understand what is to be destroyed? its an opinion.
conday1990 2 weeks ago
This other guy is like a Choir boy compare to Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan is destroying this guy in this debate.
Vincent776 2 weeks ago
joe rogan gets a good debater! whether i agree or not he's relentless...
vpchipz 2 weeks ago
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@vpchipz Brand new exclusive on my channel.. Joe Rogan talks Anonymous, Dana White & Illuminati Control of the internet.. We are legion!
MiloBoz 2 weeks ago
Socialism is a mental disorder.
There should be ZERO death tax. You've aldready payed taxes while you were alive and working. It's double taxation.
Why do these idiot leftists believe the government knows how to spend your money better than you do?
TimeWarp66 2 weeks ago
@TimeWarp66 Capitalism doesn't work either in the way that it inevitably evolves into people receiving free resources which become even greater resources which they in turn inflate down a bloodline. Capitalism is an assumption of social/monetary equality. What exists is social balance, not equality, What soon won't exist is monetary balance which in turn leads to economic depression,
JoshJamesification 2 weeks ago
I'll tell you something about Canada. The reason it's mostly middle class is the Go v keeps everyone down. Constantly raping the people via tax audits, and other buracrats, organizations and devices built in to take anything you make. I dare you to try and be a millionaire in Canada. You'll have dozens of g ov agents banging your door down and stealing anything and everything you have! You'd be amazed. It's just sick.
aceshigh8881 2 weeks ago
@aceshigh8881 I live in Canada. That does not happen. There is actually more millionaires per capita in Canada than in the U.S.
zoltrix12 2 weeks ago
@aceshigh8881 Fail!!!! Canada has a higher rate of millionaires per capita than the US....you stupid fuck
traveler10001000 1 week ago
@traveler10001000 Then we are clearly doing better xD
TheHallzySquad 1 week ago
i dont know who this "canadian" socialist is, but this is definitely not how canadian socialism works or a direction it is being pushed into...
MrTristanChart 2 weeks ago
Karl Marx's had formulated the concept of centralization of credit.
And every socialist system has used this format in some measure or other. And most socialist have a variation of this system.
The socialist in this video is just giving another version of this.
Central credit management economics always leads to inflation.
And socialist do not understand this.
bighands69 2 weeks ago
And if people understood economics they wouldn't argue for socialist BS. Allow me to explain how the poor has their standard of living increase SUSTAINABLY longterm:
First, drop the emotional arguments. Now, capital is accumulated. That's invested in technology. That raises productivity per worker. Total real compensation (wages+benefits) rises with consumption. Then consumption rises as compensation rises. This creates larger profits and more capital accumulation. Slow that cycle, grow poverty
ProIndividual 2 weeks ago
@ProIndividual That's a theoretically interesting idea, but the rise in the accumulation of capital for decades now has not lead to anything resembling a parallel rise in the overall standard of living for the working class. And it's not because the government has done too much.
treehousewizkid 2 weeks ago
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@treehousewizkid i jus put a new vid on my channel : Joe Rogan Talks Hackers, Dana White, SOPA, ACTA, & Illuminati.. check it check it
MiloBoz 2 weeks ago
@ProIndividual The socialist "bs" certainly seems to be working for many countries...mainly certain parts of western Europe, Scandinavia, Australia (socialist to an extent) New Zealand, Canada etc...Which are all doing far better-economically at the moment than the wondrous US..Care to explain that one Milton Friedman boy??? Seems to be working in those countries.
But some random youtube blogger says if you understand economics socialism can't work!!!! Dur Deeee Dur!!!!!!!!!!!,
traveler10001000 1 week ago
Tax is extortion on the threat of kidnapping (prison). All I hear is rationalization for extortion by the mafia (state) within their gang turf (borders; geographic monopoly on social contracts).
Here's an idea. Privatize highways, schools, everything. You already pay tolls, it's called gas tax at the pump. No one is locked out of the road market if private that is in the market now. Tax, toll, wtf is the difference? I'll tell you the difference...tolls are more cost effective so it's cheaper.
ProIndividual 2 weeks ago
Where's the schooling part?
This sort of seemed like a perfectly good and productive debate/conversation......
Zorkmid25 3 weeks ago
This is kind of crazy because Joe is basically arguing to give his money to his kids. Kind of hard for him to talk on the subject as he himself is wealthy and successful
CJStrongheart 3 weeks ago
@CJStrongheart Why? What's wrong with him wanting to choose where the money he has made in his lifetime go to places he wants it to, rather than government forcing you to have that money go towards what they want? Why does him being wealthy make him less qualified to give his opinion on the subject? Should my opinion be valued higher than his, simply because I am not rich? Should stoners not have a voice on the subject of re-legalization just because they want to smoke cannabis?
lFawDown 3 weeks ago
That was "schooling"?
FlyingD 3 weeks ago
By Pete's math it would be an act of humanitarianism to murder all the really rich people to re-distribute their wealth.
kilgoretroutcanada 3 weeks ago
taxation is theft...simple...if there was a 0% income tax rate their would be no debate here...consumption tax is fine...it doesn't work in Canada...48% of the income tax collected comes from the top 10% of income earners...I'm sick of my money taken by governments and given to causes or groups without my conscent to buy votes...it's like a crook coming to my door with a gun and saying I want 35% of your money...going to give it to someone else...total BS
mike6459 4 weeks ago
@mike6459 You consented as soon as you began playing the money game, and there's a lot worse happening in the world outside the tragedy of the top 10% losing too much in taxes. It could be worse.
rhth79 3 weeks ago
@mike6459 "How doesn't it work in Canada"? Please tell me...Canada is doing very well economically at the moment....
traveler10001000 1 week ago
anyone who mentions liberal or conservative, your post isnt worth reading. in fact your part of the problem. get rid of this partisan politics bullshit and start basing things on good ideas...not political policies
lambeauleap66 4 weeks ago
Schools him? It was debate that wasn't heated, and they agreed on several points. Not sure this is a schooling so much as an interesting, respectful debate.
gritcameronfan 4 weeks ago
Joe has got it all wrong here. He still has that capitalist semen in his head from his Hollywood days.
Tax the rich 75%!
A flat tax is not a fair tax. A fair tax would TAX THE RICH MORE.
Joe's libertarian weirdo side is sad to hear.
Brian doesn't have a million dollars, Sly has many many millions. Horrible example Joe.
I'm a progressive, and I fucking hate conservatives and libertarians. What's mine is mine is fucking playground talk. Grow up on this issue Joe.
apocalyptichybrid2 4 weeks ago
@apocalyptichybrid2 A fair is a flat tax. The people who have more money because they work harder shouldn't lose a higher percent of it for working harder than most.
chunkymilk 4 weeks ago
@chunkymilk Work harder? Hardly, the more money you make the easier your job is. Thats the beauty of education.
Hobomedic 3 weeks ago
canada is a corporate cop state run by banks and silly patriotism like anywhere else...con job...no offence to anyone
1778owen 1 month ago
@1778owen None taken, it's absolutely 100% true! When the subject of government corruption comes up, Canadians are quick to point the finger at their southern neighbors. WAKE UP Canada, this is nothing more than a draconian Nazi police state! Did you see what happened at the G20 summit in Toronto? I couldn't fucking believe I was looking at my city and not New York or Chicago or L.A. Please pull your collective heads out of your asses!
JusticeBlaze1 4 weeks ago
love ya joe...freedom...
1778owen 1 month ago
THIS ISN'T THE JOE ROGAN I KNOW AND LOVE.
JustOneAsbesto 1 month ago
@JustOneAsbesto I agree. Sad to hear Joe talk like this.
apocalyptichybrid2 4 weeks ago
The female in the video is talking out of her ass. I live in Toronto Canada and was born and raised here. The gap between rich and poor has never been greater. These people are nothing more than left-wing nuts.
This notion that less fortunate people are "entitled" to the same things as wealthier people is completely fucking outrageous. You want something, you EARN it. Everyone doesn't get a Ferrari and a million dollars just because it's "fair". Liberalism really is a mental disorder.
JusticeBlaze1 1 month ago
@JusticeBlaze1 Theres so many rich punk kids around who didn't earn shit. How many kids run companies their parents started, and they just got a lucky roll of the dice and were born into that family? What did they earn? I know alot of people who bust their balls every fucking day trying to make ends meet and don't get shit. Its totally fair that 1% of the population controls almost half of the wealth, isn't itodd that number has never changed? We live in a system designed to keep the rich, rich.
Hobomedic 1 month ago
@Hobomedic Are you jealous of their amassed wealth? If so, get of your fucking ass and do something to amass your own fortune! Where do you think their rich parents/grandparents etc. started? Who the fuck are you or I to say it's not fair? If you had amassed a fortune and wanted to leave it to your kids, you'd be singing a different tune. LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL ILLNESS!
JusticeBlaze1 4 weeks ago
@JusticeBlaze1 o.0 Jealous? Maybe, I would be down to make millions of dollars and leaving it for my kids. But I wouldn't be down making millions of dollars, and leaving it from some douchebag kid that never did shit thinking he was entitled to everything I earned.
Hobomedic 3 weeks ago
@Hobomedic but the rich pay the most taxes as well.
shubroto81 3 weeks ago
@shubroto81 I would fucking hope so.
Hobomedic 3 weeks ago
@JusticeBlaze1 And while a few people manage to break out, and make a couple million dollars here and there, doesn't mean the system is fine. The saying, "It takes money to make money" holds true. Look anywhere and you can see this is true. The rich continue to amass wealth, while everyone else fights for what's left. Massive companies come in, wtf pwn everyone else. Now that Mom and Pop dont have a store anymore they get a job at safeway, getting paid shit wages. While some doucher makemillions
Hobomedic 1 month ago
hell i am canadian i agree with rogen but i do like free health care
Spiderjones27 1 month ago
Economy is more complex than just "tax", tax is just one factory of a big equation that is "distribution of wealth".
How socialistic a country could be based on how much resource per person that country has? Canada has so much natural resource with so few people. They can support everybody to do well. Where as city like Hong Kong in which there are closing 1 billion of people in one CITY, of course you cannot be Anywhere near socialistic, there is literally nothing to be shared in HK...
garytcw 1 month ago
it would be good is people simply were that way, giving away all their money. but the govt should never cross the line and force generosity upon people.
biggmoneyme 1 month ago
Canadians: The World's Simpletons.
trublu97 1 month ago
@trublu97 Americans are the worlds simpletons.
wizz2491 1 month ago
@trublu97 I blame CBC.
barleyLEGALdotCA 1 month ago
I love joe rogan but the only non simpleminded thought he had during this was 9:08-9:31 then he ruined it by basically saying that were not mature enough to evolve in the extreme way that this guy is in visioning watch zeitgeist and go plant a tree and stand for something otherwise your thoughts are worthless and your a selfish conformist to busy to help anyone or anything go spread your decay pussy...
nollietre69 1 month ago
I agree with Joe. The other guy needs to do a little more research
daveymo20 1 month ago
Joe's overlooking the fact that money = power. That's the problem with allowing some individuals to have vastly more wealth than others. They can buy politicians.
wqoneill 1 month ago
terrible description of this video, it's a legitimate, educated, fair conversation by two people that don't have a problem with each other.
jakegiles2 1 month ago
Fuck off!!! Fuck this filthy socialist!! Rock on Joe!!
TheFreemanontheland7 1 month ago
the socialist here is an idealist.. he wants to believe that the government would be responsible.. but joe hit it on the head, the bureaucratic government as is exists right now is corrupt and wont use your money for the good of the people. Christs idea of giving to the poor is solid in a socialist idea, because it is important to sustain equality and prevent a nobility class.
grimywise 1 month ago
I really don't see how the socialist was schooled - it seemed like quite a good conversation to me.
ray1351 1 month ago
@ray1351 Couldn't agree more. Informative on different spectrums. I agree more with Joe though.
TheHersey 1 month ago
@TheHersey :P indeed because i side with the socialist
ray1351 1 month ago
To mandate the extraction of money, upon ones death, totally negates the purpose of money. If you want to make the argument that society should run on trade, or whatever else that isn't money, I see your point. What's being suggested here, is irresponsible. Personal liberty, and private property go hand in hand. To mandate this, you'd be infringing my rights, and if I was wealthy enough, I'd hire a militia to protect my money, even if it meant every cent of it was spent on it's protection
MistaOneGuy 1 month ago
i dont think there is any schooling happenning here. theyre just spouting off ideas.
tacomonday1 1 month ago
LOL @ the rockerfeller society? who the fuck would give their life savings to someone who spends that amount of money in a day, Rockerfeller is beyond wealthy, its at the point now where they don't even need money because they have so much power and influence. the guy joe rogan is talking to is a douche and is not representing Canadians in any way.
Airportris 1 month ago 2
I'm not here to shit on anyone but no one is taking account population density. Comparing America and Canada is like comparing automobile accidents to plane crashes. We are talking about 300 million Americans, and under 40 million Canadians there's no comparison. Aside from that the gap between rich and poor will only further increase with the stupidity of the modern market. Before blaming government think about it you in couldn't change shit.
dobatron 1 month ago
@dobatron well Government is in charge and essentially makes all the decisions, who else is there to blame?
Airportris 1 month ago
man alot of people in the comments section here like to force feed their message. the dogma around here is palpable. why can't we talk this shit out like joe and the canuck?
amremorse 1 month ago
Fact is, the more a country looks like a social democracy, the higher the quality of life for all of its citizens. Americans are brainwashed into seeing anything other than their form of socioeconomic system as something to be feared.
rhth79 1 month ago 2
@rhth79 HERE HERE !!! literally one of the best comments i have ever seen on youtube , not joking thats legit
dublyooteeeff 3 weeks ago
@rhth79 no unfortunatly its not the case. i was born in sweden(one of the most socialist countries in the whole world) and i didnt understand how bad it was untill i moved to Thailand (a much poorer country) and you cant even compare their hospital service. In sweden you need to wait up to 16hours with a broken arm, in Thailand they fix you direct. And in Thailand everyone who works get a hospital card! Also socialist countries become a magnet for parasites from the middle east and africa.
MakeAGameWithMe 3 weeks ago
@MakeAGameWithMe Take a closer look at what I'm saying. Quality of life is indeed higher. When you talk about wait times you're actually talking about rationing of health care, not quality of life. In the US it's rationed based on income, here in Canada it's rationed based on need. I'm not narcissistic, so to me the better system is clear. What you call parasites I call human beings.
rhth79 3 weeks ago
@rhth79 Well iam not narcissistic either, but iam a realist and understand that moeny doesnt grow on trees, and if hundreds of thousands of people who have never tributed anything to the country comes every year to live of the welfare then that mean they need to take money from other things in society. thats why in Sweden old people are treated like animals. Old people in Sweden who worked their whole life get less money then immigrants who havent paid a cent in taxes, is that fair?its socialism
MakeAGameWithMe 3 weeks ago
@rhth79
Well done! I, too, am inclined to support a system of triage based on need, rather than income. MakeAGameWithMe's quip about "parasites" especially surprised me, since it basically had nothing to do with anything and came out of nowhere. Not exactly the smartest thing to say, eh?
icarus313 3 weeks ago
Some places up north in Canada are actually similiar to what the chick was saying. in some northern towns even miniumum wage will get you by to the point where you can get ahead as long as you don't spend too much on beer and smokes lol!
grand778 1 month ago
Joe is totally right, I'm a Canadian and the chick who says that the poor in Canada have a quality of life akin to the rich in her city of 98'000? People in my home town of 350'000 who are poor live on much much less than people even in the quote "middle class" was this chick from some northern upper-Canadian paradise town? What Canadian world did she live in?
JohnnyH1982 1 month ago
@JohnnyH1982 Quality of life is inclusive of much more than just money. Health care plays a major role in determining quality of life. You have that in Canada and that makes a huge difference. Poor in the US just don't bother with hospitals and health care.
rhth79 1 month ago
Im from Canada. These people want a welfare state. I save my money for a rainy day, while others spend. Fuck em.
IMA60SKID 1 month ago
@IMA60SKID There is that Compassion Rogan is talking about.. Good Job.
JiuJitsuAddict 1 month ago
God I hate pseudo intellectuals. This fucking video made me get migraine from pure frustration.
IntronDepot1 1 month ago
Okay, this stupid tool wants people a) not strive to be super rich, b) give up all inheritances, and then goes on to complement the ROCKEFELLERS! What the fuck?
IntronDepot1 1 month ago
@IntronDepot1 that guy is fucked! My mind is blown too.
muaythaiguy6669 1 month ago
Stupid bitch at 4:44. "Nobody strives to be super rich in Canada." Idiot.
FreethinkingFun 1 month ago
what a fucking idiot !!! us canadians are NOT NOT NOT LIKE THIS !!!!!.........this speaker is a brainwashed fool
thisisbullshit20 1 month ago 2
@thisisbullshit20 Canadians aren't like this? There are 30+ Million of them... do you know them all? Scots are cheap and the French are rude too right? Let me guess... You're from Alberta right? Cuz all Albertans are conservatives... *facepalm*
JiuJitsuAddict 1 month ago
that guys fucking ignorant, fucking socialist
RagedisorderZ 1 month ago
Joe Rogan i dont know how u lasted in that interview for that 10 minutes, i would've knocked him out in the first 2 minutes, fucking crooks
RagedisorderZ 1 month ago
@RagedisorderZ Do you often KO people who you disagree with? Good choice on your screen name.
JiuJitsuAddict 1 month ago
Socialism is the beast that powers a damaged sick government . Maybe folks should worry more about laws protecting corporate wold wide domination . Not some man that wants to give his children his earnings. Socialism will keep me down .. And my son and his son .. It's the trick to control the world . Government controls all . I'm American !!! Capitalism is the only way !!! Stop making corporate giants and china rich! If my friend works twice as hard ... He gets twice a
Beachcrib 1 month ago
Whoever Rogan is debating this with has an affinity for big words and loud mouthed opinions. He love the sounds of own voice and it shows in his speech pattern
drubeast 1 month ago
Most Socialist don't have a problem with inheritance. The person debating with Joe Rogan is an oddball.
crazywaffleking 1 month ago
"Liberals and the left know nothing about economics" - Anonymous
88relient 1 month ago
Liberal thought SCARE me!!!!
bigrig82 1 month ago
What that lady said was so wrong there is tons of poor people in canada go to vancouver bums everywhere .
JBhab30 1 month ago
It was a great conversation, nobody really owned anybody. They probably both learned from each other. This is how shit should be. You can agree/disagree whatever, but not yelling and blindly taking positions on things.
CJDiggs 1 month ago
Nothing against Canadian.After all it is a great country.It seems to be of a less English dominated Country then New Zealand or Austrailia.
However, Socialism is the gate way drug to communism.
Socialist talk is cry baby talk that are crying because they don't want to work hard for their own
NYWAORCANZ 1 month ago
I think the focas should be taken off money all together....
peacelovehappy001 1 month ago
This is a conversation between two educated men, Joe Rogan goes ape shit on people when schooling them :p I don't agree with the Johansen guy about inheritance either but he is right about how we should be evolving as humans to get away from our primate roots. Unfortunately, I don't see this happening until we somehow evolve to all have a higher IQ and understanding.. I've pretty much given up on the human race for this lol
XyiSti 1 month ago
@XyiSti It's hard to see it at times but I think more and more people are waking up from the American Dream and realizing Materialistic consumer culture is a dead end.
JiuJitsuAddict 1 month ago
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Too bad Canada was barely touched by the economic collapse due to our strict regulations on banks. How did deregulation work for the US? How's that 'free market' economy working out for the US? I don't care if Rogan schooled a Canadian. Canada schooled the world during the global economic crash. End of argument.
roomlost 1 month ago
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roomlost 1 month ago
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roomlost 1 month ago
Canadian - I hate rich people because I'm not one of them and I think they form a separate class. We should take all their money when they die in order to create a separate class that I approve of.
Joe - People should be free to do what they want with their own property so long as they're not hurting others.
This "Canadian" is inherently contradictory and embarrassingly stupid. He comes off as a whiny, selfish child.
17Spartacus76 1 month ago
@17Spartacus76 Thumbs up from a Canadian (We're not all like this flake)
ConditionLefty 1 month ago 2
Haha girl tries to step in, gets run over, fizzles out.
ffrmaster 1 month ago
love joe but he's not schooling that guy at all
7hom 1 month ago
the 'canadian socialist' is embarrassing. he talks in circles and uses flawed logic.
Duskworker 1 month ago
JOE ROGAN FOR PRESIDENT!!!
koko1914 1 month ago
Sounded like two guys talking some life, politics, economics, and philosophy. Did I miss something? What's with the weird title to the video?
TruthDoesNotHurt 1 month ago
Who really cares what the guy from the t.v show survivor has to say about anything? Judging by the comments on all of his youtube videos you would think this guy is a God of some sort. He subscribes to the idea that we evolved from ape's by eating magic mushrooms haha. He went on a few shroom trips and discovered DMT now he thinks he can save the world. Classic example of a guy who discovered drugs later on in life and thinks he is onto something the rest of us know nothing about. haha
tokenmuchochiba 1 month ago
The guy Joe is talking to might be Canadian, but he does not share the same view that most Canadians do.. Terrible title to the video. I'm from Halifax and a huge fan of Rogan!
JJ399JAr 1 month ago
WOW...evolve past currency? gain more rights and titles? thats messed up!! he's talking about the same crap he's riling against! meeeeesssssed uuuuup!
dirksilver 2 months ago
@dirksilver As a Canadian, socialism isn't really MORE rights, nor is it equality. It's just a different way of thinking. Yes, I believe we need to go back to a more gentlemanly way of life, but I don't think the government should be able to tell us whats right and whats wrong. That should be left ot the individual. It's all just a personal balance.
AVEYoungCeasar 1 month ago
@AVEYoungCeasar i think you're misunderstanding what i'm saying and who i'm talking about...i'm a libertarian man! it's all about individual rights and freedoms in my book...free markets baby!
dirksilver 1 month ago
hey pete, Fuck You
Sendao9 2 months ago
All collectivists are always wrong. The title of this video is right, even though Joe isn't the best debater.
sheepOG 2 months ago
"there should be no inheritance"
that's fucking stupid.
erizzow 2 months ago
I'm Canadian, but the dude Joe is taking to is stupid!
fenderandedges 2 months ago
4:45 Lady... I'm Canadian and I sure as hell would have a higher standard of living if I was rich. Take Kelowna for example. If you're rich in Kelowna, you live in a multi-million dollar house in a beautiful suburb or a safe community. If you're lower-middle class, you better watch your back as you stroll through Rutland!
wawahwario 2 months ago
fuck yeah, I would leave my kid(s) all my money... if my kid doesn't want to work (really who does) and I had the means to provide a comfortable life, why the hell wouldn't I? We the middle class are so damn stubborn and proud, that's why most of us stay middle class.
wawahwario 2 months ago
@hobbso They're both used for leftist indoctrination. I suppose you're a product of that indoctrination. It's hard to speak to someone like that because they get very offended if you don't share their opinion.
rxc128 2 months ago
that "socialist" is retarded... he was talking about how children gaining large inheritances and how that will recreate serfdom.. and Then he talks about phasing out currency with Titles and a "gentlemen's" class... that title shit sounds like the beginnings of serfdom to me......
griffing423 2 months ago
Joe needs to watch some of that zeitgeist movie! I bet he'd agree with everything on it
sherajr 2 months ago
joe rogan failed miserably
bigceej69 2 months ago
Joe is a smart guy but the guy who's he talking too is stupid and blind and same for that dumb chick they both go off track all the time people like that are what kills this world,unsure and blind weak asses
AtomicF 2 months ago
"evolve past currency".... all i know is the venus project's society sounds way better than anything we got now
slashes1122 2 months ago
@slashes1122 uh huh. i concur.
amremorse 1 month ago
I love you Joe, but you and all americans need to know that Socialism = Worker ownership of the means of production. Thats it. No more, no less.
jimmycrackedcorn226 2 months ago
@jimmycrackedcorn226 Actually socialism means a lot more than that. It means implementing a mechanism by which wealth is allocated to a central source which ultimately has or is reliant on an entity with a monopoly on violence to re-distribute. The rich and powerful have historically been able to pull the curtain over the eyes of the workers while they manipulate politicians and currencies in order to make profits that could never be realized in a true free market system.
dperrineucsb 2 months ago
@dperrineucsb You clearly know nothing about economics or political philosophy. What you described can be equally as applicable in a capitalist system. Power concentrates anywhere you allow it to, like in capitalism.
And what is this "True Free Market" you talk about? Such a thing cannot exist, because of two very fundamental reasons: 1), Perfect information is not available to all parties, and 2), there ALWAYS exists a barrier to entry. So let's cut this crap about "True free markets."
jimmycrackedcorn226 2 months ago
wow this guy joe rogan is arguing with is an actual dumbfuck.... looks like his kids are gonna fucking hate him, that is if he can find a dumb enough cunt to marry his retarded ass
daveshow58 2 months ago