Magpul PDR

[firecrotch6000]

does this not look like that one gun from brink

[111E982a]

@firecrotch6000 brink used this design. expect they chambered it in pistol rounds.

[firecrotch6000]

@111E982a ok i thought it looked familiar.

[MrNosfaratu]

IMI had already made a firearm that is a small bullpup design for tight spaces. They called it the Tavor Tar-21. IMI designed this firearm in response to the M16/M4 series were still a bit too long for Israeli soldiers to use comfortably in Palestinian housing blocs. So they made a small bullpup assault rifle which also chambered the standard NATO 5.56x45mm. It is also very accurate even in longer distances. Even if this PDR looks interesting, its just a copy of the Tar-21 and FN P90.

[FPSrUSSRia]

@MrNosfaratu The Tavor TAR-21 and the MTAR-21 is still not comfortable to shoot for us left-handers. The PDR is a carbine and a compact firearm. The first in intermediate personal defense. And the P90 is a smg designed to be a PDW. TAR-21 is bullpup and the answer for left-hand shooters hasn't been cleared.

[MrNosfaratu]

@FPSrUSSRia The "left-handed shooter" problem may never truly be cleared. Yet this module may bring that problem to a closer end. Still, the idea behind it is still taken from various other guns, I don't see it fit for any military use. Perhaps this gun will do best in home/personal defense at best. I also don't see how one would classify the P90 as PDW, but not this weapon? At any rate, it's not that it is a bad weapon, it's simply just more gimmicky than already existing weapons.

[Luger718A1]

@MrNosfaratu PDW usually have a unique high velocity cartridges made for the gun such as the 5.7x28mm that the P90 uses and the 4.6x30mm the MP7 uses...not to mention the PDR has a longer barrel then the p90 and mp7 up to 12.5"..... this is all speculation...they could of just called it a PDR for marketing purposes...sounds more badass :)

[MrNosfaratu]

Ah, I always thought that PDW wasn't just based on the cartridge it fired. Doesn't PDW stand for Personal Defense Weapon? I mean you could use this as PDW, since it would be something that heli pilots could use? Also I know that the P90 has a short barrel, but for high velocity round like the 5.7x28 they have to have short barrels. The reason they have long "carbine" like P90's for civilian use is because the round slows down significantly. Cutting down on lethal penetration.

[VegitoBlitz24]

They need to include this in Modern Warfare 3.

[brutechieftan]

i feel very adventurous today anyone wanna have an adventure

[111E982a]

how many rounds?

[FPSrUSSRia]

@111E982a The PDR uses Stanag magazines it varies until they actually state the characteristics.

[Kill001]

looks like something outta a sci-fi movie

[fst3v0]

cool, p90-esque. I likey

[andytran32810]

i love this gun, where can i get it?

[ANIMOUS69]

The CAR-15 is only an inch shorter than the M4 so it's useless as a PDW. In order to make a 5.56X45mm PDW sized weapon, with a long enough barrel(14.5 inches) to use up all the charge from the 5.56X45mm round, it has to be a bullpup design. As a bullpup it will be around 20-22in in length overall but that's still a big improvement from an M4's 30in length, especially for certain soldiers such as Armor crew. You could have the short version AND still put longer barrels on it for regular troops.

[ANIMOUS69]

You could even have different interchangeable parts so that it could be turned into a LMG.

IMO we in the US military are way behind in adopting bullpup designs. Most nations' militaries have moved to bullpup. British SA80, which has a 20 inch barrel standard, is the same overall length as the M4 but our M16 with it's 20 inch barrel is about 10 inches longer. Try swinging that around in a built up area.

[ANIMOUS69]

umm why? There already are assault rifles. The point is to make it a Personal Defense Weapon for use by military personnel who need a smaller weapon, such as drivers and armor/flight crews.

[Otacon237]

Because from a logistical standpoint it's much easier. Take the standard AR (or M4/M16 in this case), swap out the upper receiver for a short barrelled version and you have a PDW. Once you're done with the mission switch it back to your normal loadout.

It's much easier since it uses the same mags, same ammo, same weapon components. Most militaries are going for this modular approach rather than equipping soldiers with completely different weapons.

[ANIMOUS69]

That's what the military does now & it's not good enough. The barrel length required to use up the 5.56X45mm charge is 14.5in(M4 uses). This creates an overall length of around 30in, which is too long. If you try putting a <14.5in barrel on an M4 then the charge explodes OUTSIDE the barrel and you get a deafening bang and a big cloud of blinding smoke. Not something a soldier wants. This is why a bullpup PDW is NEEDED because then they use the same ammo & be around 8 inches shorter.

[Otacon237]

LOL, you don't handle too many guns, do you?

The "blinding flash and deafening bang" (which btw is only slightly worse than a standard barrel) is negated by a nifty little device called a flash suppressor. And there is no "cloud of smoke" since the invention of smokeless powder in the late 1800s.

They already hand out MP5's to some non frontline troops. The PDW hasn't seen widespread use, it's a weaponological dead end. Yes, they're cool, but there's easier ways to achieve the same end.

[ANIMOUS69]

MP5 doesn't have the penetraion to deal with many body armors so it's not a very desired weapon with most frontline troops. Also I have fired some shorter barrel versions of the M4 and yes the bang and smoke(yes there is some) is too loud and distracting to make it desirable in combat.

[Otacon237]

No, but the M855 standard issue tungsten penetrator 5.56 ammo does.

Not that it matters, since when do rear echelon troops fight guys with body armor? For that matter, since when does anyone in the US military fight bad guys with body armor?

Most of them are too cowardly to even fight fair without resorting to IED's and suicide bombings.

Either way, the military doesn't currently see a need for dedicated PDW's. They don't even see much use in the special forces.

[Otacon237]

BTW if you're worried about a short-barreled M4 being too hard to handle, I don't know why you think the PDR is a good idea seeing how it is a lighter and shorter barrelled weapon that shoots 5.56x45.

[ANIMOUS69]

@Otacon237 many of the opponents the US fights now use lvl 2-3 body armor. The military does see a need for PDW's, since they issued a request for a new one years ago and confirmed that request in 2007. They just can't decide on one. When I say the M4 is hard to handle I don't mean firing it, I mean wielding it in a confined space like a vehicle. PDW is mainly for vehicle crews, they need a small weapon that compares to M4 performance. So yes a PDR's lighter, shorter design is desirable.

[Otacon237]

@ANIMOUS69 Yes but neither a 5.7x28 or a 5.56x45 (M885 variety) will penetrate a Type III vest reliably, only up to a Type III, especially with such a short barrel. Even then, the wound results will apparently "resemble .22lr hits", per the arfcom library. That will possibly take the enemy out of the fight, but not kill him immediately. The M4 CQBR is about 25" OAL where the PDR is about 20"; I doubt the military will consider 5 inches a valid reason to spend so much money on implementation.

[Otacon237]

@ANIMOUS69 The PDR is promising in that it will supposedly be offered in better "cqb" rounds like the 6.8SPC, but that will further limit its chances since it's a proprietary round. It would just cost way too much for widespread implementation; I can see it being used in special forces roles, as well as VIP protection. The Secret Service for example employs P90's (among other weapons) at the moment.

BTW typo on my last comments, it's supposed to say "only up to a Type IIIA".

[ANIMOUS69]

@Otacon237 As far as I know Magpul is still looking to at the PDR bullpup concept as a standard 5.56 NATO round simply because the military is hesitant to adopt a new round. If they 'offer' a larger round it would probably be simply that, an offered option. They want to stay in the PDW race and IMO a bullpup is the only way to do it and still use the 5.56. The M4 already pushes the standard rifle design with the 5.56 as far as it will go.

[ANIMOUS69]

Also if the military didn't think a 5 inch reduction was worth some extra expense they would not be interested in a PDW in the first place. A bullpup 5.56x45mm pushed to the limits of size/weight reduction while still performing at least as well as an M4 would be well worth the cost.

[Otacon237]

Doubt it. Implementing a completely new firearm, even with mag/ammo compatibility is a nightmare. Training costs skyrocket, the main reason they still haven't ditched direct impingement M16 rifles for something piston-driven is cost. The military has been notorious for scraping by with "good enough", and that's not about to change any time soon. Most of the experts and military brass assume the "interest" in a PDW will be scrapped just like the OICW and XM8 projects.

[ANIMOUS69]

@Otacon237 The military is already implementing new firearms. The FN SCAR, the M110 and the M1014 all come to mind. They will never whole hog replace mass amounts of firearms due to cost. They will gradually phase in replacements. I doubt interest in PDW will go away any time soon since all the branches want one.

[Otacon237]

Yes but like I said, these weapons are only seeing limited use for specific roles. The SCAR is for special forces, and the M1014 is seeing limited issue as a breaching tool. It's not even right to call it a "weapon" because using shotguns to shoot people is a violation of the Geneva Convention. And many complain because it can't cycle light breaching loads, often soldiers are still using Mossberg 590's or Remington 870s.

The M110 is somewhat of an exception because it is an AR platform.

[ANIMOUS69]

@Otacon237 Shotguns are not a violation of the Hague or Geneva conventions. Germany protested their use in 1918 but the US rejected their interpretation of the Hague convention. No official ruling has ever been made and the US, and almost every other Hague signatory, uses Shotguns in their military in combat.

You are being misleading by saying SCAR is only for special forces. The Rangers may be special forces but they are fielded in large numbers, thousands, and are now phasing in the SCAR.

[Shadowhunter712]

I hope they start to bring this gun out, it would be a real good buy...

[fst3v0]

unless Remington gets it's hands on it... poor ACR, it will be missed...

[Otacon237]

Well Bushmaster is gay and they fucked it up when Magpul gave them manufacturing rights. Anyway they raised the MSRP to around $2600 (for a base model) and pushed back the release so a lot of people are pissed.

I'm saving my money for the MSAR MCS.

[aznlonewuff]

There is a god!!!! I've dreamt of this for so long!!

[gomann64]

forgive me god for saying this but....*sigh*

it looks like the smg from halo..

*shoots self*

[JaySkuh]

lol k henry

[Dilo22]

The one and only thing that's wrong with this particular PDW... Is that 20 rounds is sorta low... I know it can use 30 round M16 mags though...

It has the same issue as MP7... which is a kickass gun: You want concealability so that it doesn't get in the way, so you want the 20 rounder. But the point of this gun is it is to be used when the "shit hits the fan". You're want supressive fire, right? So a larger 30-40 round mag would be better. But that is a tad on the bulky side... *sigh*

[mouselaser]

Why are all the awesome guns they have just concept models. Why cant the make them into real guns. Too bad this and the fmg-9 aren't going to be made. I'd prefer this to a P90.

[GUNxSPECTRE]

EVERY gun has to go through various planning and testing. Making a concept model of it is just another step in the long run of actually getting these things working in real life.

[Bugabear88]

Yeah I know I just found the brouchure for this gun. Apparently its already been made and tested. But im also talking about the FMG-9. they clearly said that they aren't going to make it.

[GUNxSPECTRE]

Shame, it was such a good idea. A good thing to have when you're walking the dog at night when it has to do its business.

I'm pretty sure it'd be a big hit.

[arandomperson3]

Umm...it practically IS a P90. They just put the magazine in the bottom.

[dex9k]

something between P-90 and FN2000 ey? :D

[romanosalvatore]

It kinda looks like an FN-P90 because they have awesome ergo's since the 80's. It is a formula such as walgreens (they all look the same). They got the FN-P90, and made concept sketches parting from it. COD4 has real weapons BTW.

[mouselaser]

But in COD4 its got iron sights unless you play split screen.

[Dilo22]

/facepalm

[romanosalvatore]

Once they figure out the feeding bullpup system, it will be an innovation. They are trying something new. the body was probably made by an industrial designer that is why the internals dont work yet, that is a mechanical engeneer's job. I am an industrial designer and the whole focus on this is ergonomics and "compact".

[romanosalvatore]

Powderkid: the whole Idea is to INNOVATE. It is a CONCEPT model, it is not supposed to work. the whole idea of conceptualizing is to innovate, it doesnt necesarly have to work.

[powderkid]

to all those that say this is a copy of the p90 know absolutely nothing about the workings of this gun (its not even chambered in the same caliber let alone uses a different feeding system).

Further they probably don't know anything about REAL guns either.

Go play CS and COD4 more.

[LordStickMax]

that thing looks like the smg from halo3! awesome i want it!

[dushyantx]

ITS A COPY OF P50

[Chronobeanz]

p50?

[hippihiiri]

Though p90.

[Excalibur01]

I wouldn't quite call it a copy of the P90. It may LOOK kinda like a P90, but once you get down to it, it's something else.

[powderkid]

no, its not.

[Dilo22]

yes, it is.

[AreThereNoMoreNames]

And to think, a few years ago, they were making little rubber straps that stick onto the bottom of M16 magazines. Now, they're building and designing some very high speed weaponry. Who would'a knew.

[ConfederateWill]

you gotta start some where and they make some damn fine products

[drh1045]

My comments don't seem to show up every time. Why is that ? Last time i checked, the world is full of ex-recon, ex-seal, ex-everything. That has nothing to do with the fact that not everybody buys off on your designs. Anybody can lay the money down and get some floor space at the SHOT Show. Anybody can drive around in a stupid dune buggy and run around with someone in a rabbits outfit. Whatever floats your boat out there. Have fun boys.

[sureshot649]

There's plenty of Ex's out there, and personally i don't think their Masada had a chance in hell of being adopted, but this PDR is something else. They've done what hasn't been done since the M1 Carbine; created a short-barreled rifle that doesn't negatively affect logistics but is perfect for rear echelon types. Give them credit where they deserve it. They're good people.

[pathfinderLXXIV]

How much sound am I getting. The answer is none. None sound.

[APCFan227]

@pathfinderLXXIV Well it says quick LOOK in the description. Never assumed any audio... :D

[IIMoses740II]

It can also be modified to fire other caliber rounds that can be used in AR-15 systems like the 6.8x43 SPC or the 6.5x39 Grendel. The 6x35 KAC should work too which are designed for short barrels, so modify the PDR to those rounds and you're ready to go for things like VIP and convoy protection.

For a personal defense weapon, this is part of the top of my list since it's similar to the P90 in usage, but without the exotic and expensive ammo.

You gotta love Magpul. So smart and crafty . . .

[got2xlr8]

PDR - Personal Defense Rifle

uses m16 standard mags, fires 5.56.

[thartwig]

something tells me that it isnt a rifle... though very cool

[aminex]

you smoking something lol

[thartwig]

wait... PDR, Personal Defense Rifle????? i guess i am....

[aminex]

lol.

[Jagdratte]

Looks like a halfbreed PDW/AR. Even with the bullpup layout there is no way its longer then 10". Probably rather unpleasant to shoot with all the muzzle flash and unburned powder, if it uses standard 5.56mm.

[68cyclonegt]

That is one cool rifle!

[Darkrun9999]

@68cyclonegt its a rifle