Re: 5 Questions for Atheists (Veritas 48)

[Mtaalas]

After a minute I must say at least this:

Even if the naturalistic view of the world has nothing to say that there can't be god, it's not even the atheistic view to say "there's no god".

Atheism is disbelief in the claim that there's a god. and the disbelief is a default position when someone makes a positive claim about anything without any proof or evidence to back up that claim. There's no certainty that there's no god, only mathematics has certainties of any kind, but there's no proof either.

[Mtaalas]

@Mtaalas and to continue up: I watched the whole video and then thought a minute, read the comments and decided to define it once again as it's correctly defined. I saw too many people having trouble to understand what's atheism even is. Keep it going.

[conferencereport]

@Mtaalas I guess it would depend on whether you considered yourself a strong or weak atheist, or what Antony Flew calls a 'positive' or 'negative' atheist. A negative or weak atheist lacks a belief in a god (which is what you seem to be saying here) whereas a strong or positive atheist asserts a belief that there is no god. You're right that the former is more compatible with rational scepticism.

[TickingHand]

You would be an amazing person add to a crew for an epic deep space adventure.

[TheWeddingProducer]

Why are english people so ugly?

[TheUberCayk]

if you managed to program yourself into a belief you have to have an insane amount of will power to 'unprogram yourself'

if you managed to truthly convert yourself to a belief (i mean truley believe it) and go back then that is ver impressive,

other than that i respect your ability to argue your point very well whilst acknowledging other factors/ opinions

[Archy2034]

dont worry big guy.... "deny me on earth, and I will deny you in front of my father" you may need to rethink atheism.... to all the other atheist.. the same goes to you... you die and all of a sudden see God and want to believe, it will be too late.

[mikeisapro]

I think you are spot on about religious people having ingrained, unhealthy views about authority/perfection. It has seriously affected my father. Every little "mistake" he makes is such a big deal, same with me. This man can not think for himself at all, he needs an Instruction Book for the easiest of tasks (putting together a simple desk, any software installation, anything that has instructions) He needs everything to be told to him from an authority, and he plays master-slave games. Hes sick

[hakaboy6924]

In the beginning man created God

[MrFan32]

i would say the piece of evidence that made me believe in god is near death experiences, even children with no notion of god have had them

[davpad281]

Just think about this as it relates to our world....Atheism does not believe in the existence of an almighty god, but rather that any God like idea is created in the imagination of mankind. Therefore, humans have no one to answer to for their actions. when this mental framework is embeded in the hearts and minds of evil, wealthy politicians and power hungry men we have mass killing, wars for profit, medicated water, hunger, injustice all in the name of progress and a globalized society. : )

[cake1834]

@davpad281 no no no we didn't evolution explains morals because humans learned that hey mass genocide hurts the species and there for me! and no with religion domination we have mass genocide over religious differences adulteresses stoend to death or just beheaded conversion death penalties. slavery etc. killing children wiht rocks...

[recount09]

But again you would not meet God Because you have to believe It will be two late for you Sir So Stop Mocking 2- history is evidence not science fiction Second Half of your answer again is Mocking 3- Well since they took religion out of schools Look at them Now More Home schooling Private and public school fighting bullying and killing do your research 4- Its Freewill you can do or act like you want to no moral rules for you or maybe no rules at all 5- you dont believe you need to re educate u

[KiddaDevonHiHi7]

I'm a Christian and you're freagin awesome O___O

[IvanTimoschenko]

i'll ask you simple questions:

- who designed your body and all the mechanisms?

- why your noose is under your forehead? why don't it stick on your forehead (because you can still breath if it is there)? Who design it? you? your parent?

- your body mechanisms are more complicated then a car, your blood, your heart, your eyes, they're all complicated... Even for a machine you believe it has been created, why don't u believe your body also has been created?

-

[VolansTheNaturalist]

@IvanTimoschenko Created?

[101100111]

@skilletdrummer12 u act as though religion is the most important thing in life, its just another way of our simple minded race to make light of death. the belief in a afterlife is simply just to make death easier for the close-minded paganistic viewing morons. And along with the "scientific evidence of gods existance" thats bullshit because its still the same fucking book, no matter what it says, its still the same book that is about 90% fiction

[101100111]

@skilletdrummer12 christianity is a pointless religion. the concept of some supernatural being creating a female outta dust and a man outta her rib is absolutely ridiculous. there are valubale messages in the bible yes. not all of it is fiction but nearly 90% of it is. if every1 was an athiest our world would honestly be better bc we wouldnt have so many closed minded idiots disregaurding scientific evidence of aliens and many other things

[skilletdrummer12]

Whether you continue the conversation or not, seriously you should read the book, even if not to learn about, then to laugh at us. Whether you are a Christian or not, it is a good read.

[conferencereport]

@skilletdrummer12 I have read it, and with all due respect, it's rubbish. I'm not laughing at you thought

[skilletdrummer12]

You act as though believing in God is a disease! You act as there is no evidence for Him and that if you believe then you are obviously delusional! This is false, for there is evidence for a Supreme Being. Read the book, A Case for a Creator. This book will help you out. It has much evidence, and in my belief, disproves Atheism. Christianity is not a disease! Even if your atheism was right, what would it matter. I would rather die believing God and being wrong than believing in no God at all.

[conferencereport]

@skilletdrummer12 Your last sentence tells me that there is not point continuing this conversation. Thanks for contributing and I wish you well.

[AdamLore]

@skilletdrummer12

Curious, what evidence is presented in the book?

[skilletdrummer12]

@AdamLore You will have to read it. It is long, and it is basically scientific evidence. If you aren't into science, then you might not be able to follow it, but if you are it is an interesting read. It gives another side to scientific evidence. There are actually a considerable amount of well known scientists switching to Creationism, but it is not heard why because media keeps it under wraps, but this book is the other side of the story, so to speak.

[AdamLore]

@skilletdrummer12

I am very much interested in science. Can you give me one or two examples from the book of evidence for God that is basically scientific?

The thing that gets me wondering about God is how the Universe got here in the first place. Does any of the evidence in the book shed light on that aspect?

[strawberryraspberry5]

@AdamLore actually, it does.

try reading the Quran

ever heard of the Big Bang theory?

[skilletdrummer12]

There is evidence for God. You talk as if there is none, but there is.

[conferencereport]

@skilletdrummer12 Really?  What evidence?

[grasuh]

@conferencereport

Mere existence.

[cake1834]

@skilletdrummer12 you keep dsying there is evidence however never saying what the evidence is. please state the said evidence. oh and by the way im giving you, hmm till 2/22/2011 if you haven't respoinded by then i will assume either you have no evidence or that you never read this.

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 so you think that everything came into being just like that?

I mean, don't you think that there is somebody behind everything that exists? really, can you expect a mountain to stand on it's own and a plant to grow on it's own? well, then why don't you make a mountain? or grow a plant without any help from nature (air, light and water that is) or most importantly create a human being (not robots, mind you)

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 whoa whoa whoa how the hell did it go form me not tihn,king there is a god to me being a god???? also no i don't think that things just zapped into existence over time things evolve realize it it is fact.

and how does a plant not being able to grow without sunlight prove god???? in general what the fuck is the point you are trying to make?

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 well, the point I'm trying to make is that there is obviously something that is controlling this whole system you live in.

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 really god controlls the system in which i live i.e. the enviorment then why does he kill good peopel with natural disasters each year? and how is this obvious. last thing why us why not some other galaxy why this one why this planet. why humans. it would make sense that a group of pilagign rapign nomad group would think something made them and wonder how they existed usign there technology they thought of just a maker. it would also make sense this maker

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 God gave humans the power to think and death is inevitable. Everybody has to die, whether he is a good person or a bad person. THIS is where time comes in. People who die, it's their fate. It was their time to die. It was written in their destiny.

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 as far as raping is concerned, like I said God gave humans the power to think. He allows us to make our own decisions and do what we please to do. He gives us the instructions and the aftermath of everything. Acting upon his commandments is what we have to decide. You cannot blame God for all the destruction. It's our deeds that lead to destruction. I mean really, how many times do you sit and praise nature?

pessimistic much?

why debate on bad things, why not praise good things?

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 agreed with everything they did including rape.

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 as far as raping is concerned, like I said God gave humans the power to think. He allows us to make our own decisions and do what we please to do. He gives us the instructions and the aftermath of everything. Then it is up to us to decide whether we want to follow his instructions or not.

You cannot blame him for all the destruction. It's because of our deeds that we are in this mess. Really, how many times do you sit and praise what nature has to offer?

pessimistic much?

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 Abraham rapes his slave for a son. and he shouldn't have then why wasn't he punished?

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834

why look for faults?

why not praise the good things?

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 god is all knowing he knew al lthese bad things were going ot happen. why did n't he do anything to stop them? and the "good" things he gave us were 2 rules that already existed. compare giving us nothing we didn't have and alos giving us genocide infantcide and cauntless other things such as opression. does the good outway the bad done here? also he decided that if we didn;t beleive in him we would burn forever. he then didn't place sufficent evidense to make people who he

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 knew woldn't beleive without it beleive. so he set up several of his creations just to watch them go to hell.

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 no. That is not true.

there are several evidences. You just need to look a little deeper.

If God gave you this world to live in and all the wordly pleasures that you enjoy, then don't you think that he deserves that much of appreciation?

plus, he has already given us things we never had.

why this world? why humans? well, there are seven more universes and solar systems like ours. All of them have different kind of living creatures that we don't know about.

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 hahhaha first of all they estimate 1000000000 solar systems and 15% being like ours that comes out to 6,666,666.666666666666667 solar systems let me tell you that is not seven. also there may not be anything there. and just saying there is something there doesn't explain why he would choose us. also you say the is evidence then use god existing as evidence. and god wanted us to think you can cure leporasy by killing pigeons that is what god wanted us to know well we know

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 otherwise so sorry your "evidence" is bullshit. and also if i don't beleive in god i don't beleive in heaven. so no i don't expect to go to heaven. and no after seeing everything around me i don't deny god. i just don't think there is sufficvent evidence. also no i don't reject god if im doign that then you reject thor allah and everyone else.

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 I'm not rejecting anyone. If you don't deny God than why don't you believe?

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 yes if not believing in god is rejecting him then you are rejecting Thor Allah etc. i say that there is no evidence for god therefor i don't believe i don't deny god in your sense of seeing "evidence" and then refusing. once again you try to sidestep your "point" of " well, there are seven more universes and solar systems like ours" and the real fact of " 6,666,666.666666666666667 " solar systems.

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 " All of them have different kind of living creatures that we don't know about." this is not fact you can not say it is. also it doesn't say why US. "Hell is for those who deny God's existence even after seeing everything around them." no hell is for people who don't accept Jesus Christ as their lord in savior. in other words i will say some names then say where they are

Hitler -heaven

Gandhi -hell

does that make sense to you???

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 no. It doesn't.

we are no one to decide who goes to hell and who to heaven.

Jesus Christ is not the lord! He is just a mere prophet!

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 did i even talk about heaven or hell? no i didn't i talked about morals. heaven and hell don't have ANYTHING to do with morals. anyone who accepts jeus goes to heaven. and evolution does explain it. we realized that mass genocide hurts the species. do you think it doesn't? and i never said he was a mere prophet.

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 they are beyond human knowledge. We only know what God wants us to know. The rest is kept hidden. If you don't even believe in God then how do you expect to go to heaven?

Hell is for those who deny God's existence even after seeing everything around them.

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 you say things evolve. My question to you is, who makes them evolve?

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 to questions can be taken from here i wil ltry to answer both. the first is what causes the things to need to evolve. the enviorment because if they dont something wil land they die. the other what is causing there bodies themselves to evolve. well we have seen organisms evolve this is known. over time the organism knows it needs to change to survive just like you know that you need to eat. and over time the dna's structure will change its "code" creating new cpecies

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 organisms can't think. H

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 organisms don't think, humans can. DNA again is not a living thing, it cannot change it's code all by itself. There is somebody behind all this. Somebody that keeps everything in order. Somebody that causes the new species to exist

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 Organisms cannot think, humans can. DNA is not a living creature. It cannot change it's code just like that. Somebody is behind everything that happens. Somebody is keeping everything in order.

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 actually dna does change its code over time! not over 5 fucking minutes.

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 I'm not denying it's ability to change it's code.

I'm just saying that it doesn't do that on it's own.

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 "organisms can't think" your an organism.

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 you're*

no. That is not what I meant when I said "organisms" my bad. :/

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 cool it still does change its code

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 somebody is making the new species exist!

[cake1834]

@strawberryraspberry5 no this does NOT mean a human and a human's offspring might be a bird but it can be somewhat different. here is where time comes in. severel christans beleive in micro evolution (small changes) this is just that over a long time thus it happens more. we call this macro evolution.

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834 I don;t know what Christians believe in, all that I know is that evolution can never take place on it's own.

you say "here is where time comes in."

well, I say: time has nothing to do with this. It's all God's plan.

[strawberryraspberry5]

@cake1834

it's not about you being a god. What I meant was, if god does not exist than who made all these things?

I would really like to know what you think (no sarcasm intended)

[MaxwellMontes]

I admire people with the patience to answer these kinds of childish questions.

[Blackmark52]

I enjoyed listening to this. Thoughtful and thought provoking.

[th86stone]

such a lonely life, sad.

[terasele]

And they say: When we are bones and fragments, shall we forsooth, be raised up as a new creation?

Say: Be ye stones or iron

Or some created thing that is yet greater in your thoughts! Then they will say: Who shall bring us back (to life). Say: He Who created you at the first.

[TheFounderUtopia]

@TheOptimistPrime

The same can be said of brainwashing and delusion. Including the self-excusing of murderers, sociopaths and child molesters who all " just know" they're in the right too.

The same cannot, however, be said of any other fundamentally true fact that has been discovered. No other thing that has been shown to be true through evidence has ever required intuition in order to first accept it.

Just think about that.

It is the inability to question a belief which makes it dangerous.

[circusOFprecision]

I totally agree with you that if I were to meet God face to face, like meeting some sort of super figure, I would pick his brain until exhaustion, I could care less about the psychological fear and guilt associated with religious dogma about judgement and so forth as it seems silly to subject ourselves to such self destructive modes of reflection.

[circusOFprecision]

The idea that reason and rationality are somehow superior to belief and faith is simply a falsehood. Reason leads to belief. What should be distinguished is the mode of reason and the filter in which evidence is evaluated. We all reason to belief, that is what the psyche does. And for the most part, the honest lot of us acknowledge the same set of evidences. It is our assumptions and the filtering apparatus that varies from person to person, all of which are nothing more than mental constructs.

[circusOFprecision]

Belief and non-belief are identical in their function. So not believing is still a psychological state and could easily be just as incorrect in terms of its correlation to reality. I think that is the largest problem an atheist faces in coming to terms with conceptuality, evidence is something that is evaluated, therefore to be honest we all operate under the pretense of belief all of the time. But good video and response to some very difficult questions.

[10sodot]

well done

[WilliamLameCraig]

jeebusdidit

[GenghisKrahn]

Damn good response.

You got yourself another subscriber.

[invanorm]

I completely get your general perspective at the end there.

I talk and think alot about wildly different ideas and people sometimes get the impression that i'm contradicting myself.

Such is not the case - you don't have to 'believe' in everything you entertain and consider. The more perspectives one fleshes out the better, the more ideas intergrated into ones conciousness the better. It's not about 'belief' or even an attempt to reach for 'truth'. I'm not even sure what it's about in the end.

[AdamLore]

You are a brilliant man.

[mmabennyj]

This guy rocks

[MyGodisTruth]

You talk about a system of knowledge. But where does knowledge come from? Without God, there is nothing escentally. God has infinite knowledge and from Him and His revealed will, we know what we know. To have a system of knowledge, there must be a God who created it

[FilthyIcon]

@ MyGodisTruth knowledge can be acquired through many sources, such as observations, experiences, perception, learning, communication, etc, without a God required. Not trying to be rude or anything, but I'm just saying knowledge can be gained through many sources.

[Gunnariffic]

So you're saying that life-forms are and will remain unable to create anything for themselves? All philosophy, all theories, all systems, and anything ever made or thought about by anyone ever, your personal deity of choice is to be credited for?

What you just wrote was then a sentence pre-made by god and put into your thoughts for you to write on this website's comment section since your personal way of sharing thoughts has been tailored by your god since no idea can be unique. Nice thought.

[mmabennyj]

@MyGodisTruth this could very well be true, however why fall back to this idear first? Is'nt there far more reasons? Why is that your only answer?

[silversoul7]

Does liberation theology display an unwavering respect for authority? I think that statement of yours is more applicable to conservatism than to theism per se.

[pangeaprogress]

On the new atheism I would say that labels can be used a means of negation. It was Kierkegaard who said "Once you label me you negate me." The new atheism label is a way to ignore the message by focusing on the messengers uniform. It is a way to compete with ideas without acknowledging complexity- by making it solid not fluid. It is easier to target what is stagnant and solid. Label games are a way to go to war but it is a blunt instrument if one cares about getting to the truth of ideas.

[1140Cecile]

Good statement, pangeaprogress. I well remember when the media first invented the term "hippie" to label anyone involved in the counter-culture movement that was occurring in the 60/70s. Within just a few years, many people were accepting the label for themselves along with the "stagnant and solid" definitions of what was once a fluid, expanding and only loosely defined phenomenon.

[JamesMorlan]

A recent self-revelation revealed that I am opposed to the idea that belief is the norm. I don't like the term "atheist" as this presumes I am not theist. I would rather prefer a positive word that describes what I am, not what I am not. I do not operate from a perspective of belief - I merely am aware of what is familiar to me, and expect that what I understand about things can change as I learn more. Belief stifles learning. Is there a word for me? Naturalist? Humanist? I am searching.

[nusphere]

Why bother with a title?

[askirojadu]

this was definitely one of the best responses so far.

[pangeaprogress]

excellent response. The quote on reality-what stays with us even when we stop believing is brilliant. It reminds me of "Voila mes philosophes." (Here are my philosophers) The French materialist La Mettrie used to say this of his senses...He claimed to have reached this insight during a fever, when he realized that his intellect was entirely subject to his body.

This points to our fragility as humans even with our higher consciousness. Not to ignore the transcendent but to be aware of fragility

[Russe11john]

i think that aquiring false beliefes is harmful in that one that would require false beliefes would not be bale to understand this FIVE STAR VIDEO

[Drastam]

Belief = ignorance; in the following way:

It amounts to saying 'I don't actually know what the truth is, but I will believe this, and this will be the truth for me.'

Of course most believers wouldn't say this, since they believe that what they believe, is the truth. But when you look and see all the different beliefs in the world, it becomes obvious that belief is a species of ignorance, in the sense that belief is a form of not-knowing.

I prefer just plain not-knowing.

[Epydemic2020]

If an all loving all powerful God existed, would you desire to have a relationship with him?

[gedgetips]

Belief in a really Big Being is problematic in nature because a key justification for belief is to serve a current situation in a practical way and assist with the learning of new things. We can thus believe in order to know, or at least in order to take up a halfway consistent position from which to act. As soon as this belief becomes very big then the meaning of belief turns into a negative turning away from inquiry that blocks our ability to take even a belief in God very seriously.

[1140Cecile]

The ability to truly entertain belief systems different from one's own requires a deep confidence in something like an internal "truth-meter" that insures that one will not be forever captured by any internally consistent but ultimately incorrect system of belief. Such a truth-meter doesn't even become discovered until one has made a few such journeys, captured some new information and then rediscovered one's general larger pathway, now expanded by a temporary excursion into a different reality.

[conferencereport]

Eloquently put, many thanks.

[Barklord]

i think most organizations would benefit from some kind of position like an Insubordinate. an official source of criticism. science and academia in general have this in the peer review process but many other organizations seem to avoid it.

it sounds like your ship has arrived.

:D

[conferencereport]

A court jester maybe?

[Barklord]

Yes, but you reminded me of the position of 'Insubordinate' in a chaos magick lodge described by Peter Carroll in Liber Null & Psychonaut. Someone without authority is chosen to deliberately ridicule and criticize the leadership.