The proposed 'error' is in the partner being pulled down and then bouncing into the groin. But look closer and you might see that the ‘demonstrated technique’ is at exactly at 0:13, then the partner is 'released'. The issue is with the actions that come after the displayed technique is 'ceased'.
Techniques arise out of correct posture, form, jing(s), and all the things that are 'internal' instead of 'external'. Ripples on the water may show flow, but the flow is not the ripples.
@PlayHanghang It is NOT a smart move to pull your opponent toward yourself. Don't you think so? I do. I wont ever use both my hands to pull my opponent toward my chest which is wide open for attack.
@georgehsliew - What I see is that the 'application' is not pulling towards himself, it is a pull down.
The release (to allow for breaking down the movements) is not part of the 'application' that is being demonstrated. That release creates the disagreeable motion towards the body.
The next 'application' is the 'following back' that is demonstrated as the partner attempts to regain their center by moving back.
@georgehsliew I understand that the pull was not toward himself. But a skilful and fast react opponent could redirect the force toward the puller. When you choreograph a move, you don't presume that your opponent has never been trained in any kind of martial arts.
Hit the groin? No, wouldn't happen. Balance takes precedence over almost everything in the brain. If a murder is chasing you with an axe and you trip, all your brain power goes into regaining balance, you completely ignore the fact that a killer is right behind you.
In this video, the hands come down, to preserve balance and prevent falling over. There is no way an attack can be pulled off when all the brain is thinking about is regaining balance.
@georgehsliew Imagination? You can either keep talking, or try it yourself. This isn't theory. Have someone point a knife at your face, then let him jolt you in the back of the knees. I guarantee you that your hands will come down as you struggle for rebalance. Be careful as you might even fall right into the knife, because like I said, your brain completely ignores that fact that a knife exists, only balance is important in that instant of time.
....you know the attacker's head is open and vulnerable to an array of attacks. You are going to barrel towards my legs? I have my whole upper body strength on the back of your neck...but nevermind that...I just raised my front knee to make a crater in your face.....
If the student continued forward, he would continue back taking another step if necessary, dragging the face to the earth. The empty front knee is easily raised to meet the face. The power is coiled ready to attack while he student's is dissipated. The hands are free, right next to the head to strike he head, push, or clap the ears. The elbows can drop to the occiput or protect. If you have ever used this ..
I don't see how the master's groin is at risk. The student's hands are down and he is off balance therefore any strike would be extremely weak and put him in a worse position. If you're talking about a head butt to the groin, this would be very easily neutralized and again leave the student in a worse position.
@jonruffer If he wants to counter attack, the student would take advantage of the momentum force to trike the teacher's chest with his head. The reason why the student went down simply because he didn't want to strike back.
@georgehsliew What do you mean counter attack? He doesn't need to counter attack. The student's force has been dealt with. I really don't see how you can think that leaning forward, off balance, with someone's arms between you and the opponent's body is a superior position, or would hold any tactical advantage. The clip that you've frozen, doesn't illustrate how off balance the student is. If he did use his head, the master could just use lu to send him into a worse position.
@jonruffer The student can take advantage of the pull and step forward using his head to strike. He is off balance because he didn't react to the pull. This is his teacher's show.
@georgehsliew The student is off balance from the moment he commits himself to the push. From there the teacher supports the incoming force and pressures down. He does not pull anything. From there, you're right, the student could lunge forward with his head. This I would deem to be an extremely foolish move. This seems to be a fairly straightforward demonstration of "an". The technique could be tightened up a bit, but he is demonstrating a principle or idea rather than specific technique.....
A clearer demonstration of this principle that I have seen on youtube is Fighting concepts from tai chi 24 form. Part 3. by taijiman7777 at around 5:35. They are demonstrating the same thing.
If you think that this guy is showing an application where you yank someone down into your groin and stand there, you are just holding a double standard against tai chi martial applications. Search for ___ Applications, where ___ is karate, MMA, judo, whatever. Nearly everyone demonstrates techniques slowly- they're not pretending that they couldn't be hit during a demonstration. 'An' is a technique where you disrupt someone's root by depressing it, and it would lead to a strike or rollback.
If he were pulling the opponent, it would be bad. But that is not what happens with this technique. One could be forgiven for thinking it were so, since the internal structure is difficult to see. Lu isn't pull, it's a roll, & unlike Zai, Lieh, Zhou and Kao, the energy in Lu always engages the opponent's centre. The defender first receives the attacker's energy with peng, setting up reaction which he expoits. Think of it as a sophisticated sprawl for people who don't want to go to the ground.
There are no preconceived techniques in Tai Chi push-hands. You react only to opponent's moves through "listening" & "understanding" of his jing force. I cannot agree more that pulling your opponent is suicidal and is preconceived. Yet one learns more through asking and pondering.
As long as you are "sung" then you are circular. PH as in Tai Chi has no form. Its a matter of "sui-ji-ing-bien" - reacting to opponent's moves hence the saying - Giving up myself to follow the opponent. I know my opponent and my opponent don't know me. Its also a matter of moving later and arriving earlier. Please correct me if I am wrong to say that.
@zipdrive011 Not saying you are wrong,but I would not speak of something without first seeing if the information is correct,than if it is study it until it changes your whole concept of life.Tai chi's deepest secrets are in the theories,they are like zen koans,once understood you are awakened.I hear alot of people saying what they think tai chi is,but recently I had a new understanding of tai chi,and this is not what tai chi is.Tai chi is ultimate consciousness beyond identity.TAOISM is TAI CHI
The master did a "tsai" NOT a "lu" technique. It is not fair to comment about his groin being open to attack when he demo in photo-frame techniques. In a realistic defense, a tsai tech could slam you to the ground - head first! What open attack to the groin?
@georgehsliew In all honesty with the momentum being what it is, he groin is open for attack but the opponent isn't able to capitalize on that opening. I think the better question is can the opponent attack from that position?
Yes. But it depends on the reflex of the opponent. It depends on how ell the opponent is trained. I don't think we should presume the opponent is a slow response guy. It's always not smart to pull the opponent toward yourself.
This is just a demo of how one neutralizes a push to the chest in photo-frame movements. It is not proper to comment that the master's groin is open to an attack. The photo-frame moves are just to show his next move. In a realistic defense against such an attack, the master did a "tsai" which could make the opponent slam to the ground - head first.
I think this was a very interesting point to raise.
And I agree, as some people have remarked, that you can pick holes in any application if you use different scenarios and so forth. Especially at slow speed, demonstrating applications, breaking them down and teaching them are quite different to executing them with smooth technique.
However, having said that, from my knowledge... when I started learning applications, I was taught that the aim is to lead the 'attacker' into their own void, therefore, avoiding and displacing. Not bringing their line of force into you, without moving or at least turning the hip. I know this application as 'beginning style'. And I would say this video is demonstrating 2 variations of the application at the same time.
When I learnt this particular application I was taught 2 main variations depending on what you want to do... Either encourage the attacker into their own void by displacing and redirecting their attack using downward directed force whilst turning the hip; or.. to redirect their force down and back onto themselves and uproot, that the movement is akin to a wave.
This is just my opinion from my knowledge base, I am an eternal student.
It'S all relative in practice. He cpuld of just kneed the guy in the face while pulling him dowm too. It's all relative, you can'T look at one application without finding any holes in it somewhere, especially at slow speed.
I think after the pull it's meant to push the opponent right afterwards rather then leading the opponents head around the groin region. Kinda like the push and pull jing.
George, I don't think you can fight or have ever been inside a NHB, multistyle tourney like Sabaki Challenge or no cage mma fighting. In fact, truth be told, it seems like you have no fighting knowledge at all. No concept of body mechanics, when practicing a concept which is merely part of a fight, etc.
THIS WAS MERELY AN EXERCISE TO SEE HOW FAR ONE CAN EXTEND AN ATTACKING FORCE until it expires so that the 'master' can attack without resistance from the completely splayed student.
Instead of leaving negative comments, why don't you make your own video to demonstrate what you mean. No one is a 'master', we are all students no matter how accomplished, so lets learn, not argue. Demonstrate your point, don't shove it.
well, to me i think 1st. mistake was to let the attacker touch his cheat in the 1st. place.
I WAS TAUGHT TO DEFEND THAT ATTACk by moving forward and not backwards at all. yes the hands and armes to peng upward and the push should be a strike.
Also, if you understood anything about taiji and what this demo was demonstrating, you would see that the Sifu did nothing wrong at all! When he received the opponent's push, he shifted his weight back, and the opponent's balance was already upset. How on earth can someone with an upset balance still kick someone's groin??? You've just illustrated YOUR OWN ignorance of fight principles and balance!
You "respectfully" disagree with me, after you've disrespected all these teachers you're putting down when they know much more than you. Oh, the hypocrisy.
If you respected them, maybe you shld discuss with the source (or their top followers) prior to discrediting them. This isn't respect - it is in part defamation - calling them frauds.
I don't think that the demos were fraud. In some demos, the masters did not want to tell what actually the techniques were. In other demos, the masters' techniques do have loopholes. I just honestly tell what I believe and that is only my own opinion.
This is a demo! Man, you have NO IDEA what you're talking about, or what the demo is trying to illustrate here! It's like tuishou and chi sao, practice of drills, based on its own martial principles! This was NEVER meant to be a demo of a real fight scenario!
Demo is a presumed real fight. If you can't make it perfect in demo, how can you win in real fight? No matter wjat kind of martial arts, you don't open yourself for attack. You don't presume that your opponent inferior.
WRONG. There are many kinds of demos. Some demos are just to illustrate certain principles. This demo was NOT meant to replicate a fight scenario. There are many aspects of taiji, this is just to demonstrate one of the 8 aspects of push-hands, NOT demonstrating a fight.
Just like many of your own so-called "fight" demos, the standing postures were wrong. None of you were standing or attacking the way a real fight would be. But they were only demos right?
I think that the guy who has his groin open could have easily taken one more step back on the Lu, and smashed the guys head into the ground. I think it was nice of the guy not to hurt his partner. I also think that a choke hold would have gone very nicely after the pull down, which would also have dealt with the whole groin thing. Do you have a video clip of someone doing it right? that's what I am looking for...
well lu in chinese never mean pull towards urself- lu is better thought as pull in/away not towards oneself. it means "withdraw". So theoreticaly its Following oponent 'down & away' while drawing your energy in
by drawing your energy in, lu naturally become ji or compress, you compress your energy ready to move, strike, uproot, or further off balance oponent. really these energies lead one into another- u cant think of them seperately like single techniques but mor like fluidly with each forming the next
Well again. This videos title is incorrect. Where can you see peng? Peng is block. And it's peng, lu, ji, an. It's a complex movement. You block attack with peng, you pull opponet, you push opponent, open his arms, step back with your hands on his shoulders, so you make sure you control his body, then push him. George frankly...know the source of water you drinking. This video shows only misunderstanding of the technique.
I am against fighting brute force and the weight of the opponent. I won't lift the guy's arms like that because the guy put his weight behind it.
In Taiji, I would do a double Yuan Feng Bi 圓封閉from outside in to seal the guy's incoming attack and send him to the ground.
In Wing Chun, I would do just a double Jut Sao to send the guy to the ground. The guy wil be losing his balance and momentum, he won't be able to attack when he is being dropped too fast.
Master Fu is a famous Taiji master. He was only showing some applications of Opening Taiji that contained Peng, Lu, An in the movement. That was not a real combat situation, and he was just illustrating the application of these movements. The opponent already lost his balance and momentum, his body and both hands dropped sharply before he could anticipate the sudden drop. Unless the opponent could defy the gravity, arch his neck back , open his mouth and bite, he won't be able to attack! (=:
Pulling the guy towards yourself is not a smart move, unless you just presume he has not been trained in any kind of martial arts. A trained guy could react fast enough to step up for a head strike using the momentum force.
This is different than fighting at a distance. The contact has been made and the control has been established. A good martial artist can extend control to the point that the opponent can not do anything such as no way to kick or headbutt!
The situation became like Wing Chun Chi Sao, the training is for learning to extend control through contact. With total control, the opponent can be in any position and still loses all of the motions and momentum. Part 1
In Double-hand Chi Sao, it is very often to face the opponent center to center. Using the principle of "Retain when it comes, send when it goes." to control the opponent's motions, momentums and structure. It is easy to cause the imbalance of the opponent when he is being controlled. Using fast downward sinking can stop the opponent's kick and headbutt. With both hands up at the front, the opponent can not headbutt without giving out his throat and neck! Part 2
A good Wing Chun guy should be able to extend total control to an opponent with very little contact. With the control extended to the opponent's structure, the opponent cannot move anywhere he wants.
P.S. It was bringing the opponent downward by sinking, not bringing the opponent to one's own bosom! Part 3
Keep moving master, step round or push away, which he does after a pause - maybe for demostration purposes. The Golden Roaster could always stand one his one leg!
The pause is not for demonstration purpose. He paused because he had to wait for the student to rise up a little so that he could push the student's shoulders.
Thank you for your videos, they are really inspiring. I think you're right about that the "an" can be dangerous this way. But if the master pulls the opponent fully down to the ground, then I think he won't really need it, because he can simply step back after the pull. What do you think?
Agree. He should pull the opponent fully down to the ground since he had made two steps back. Or he should made one step back and pull his opponent sideway.
A) get back nice an quick to ensure your opponent ends up flat on their face.
B) As the head drops raise your knee
C) as you pull down step to the side, this produces a twist in your opponent which makes it harder to resist and also allows you the open up their body for a push or attack.
I'm half and half on this one. Clairvoyager is correct that the demo isn't showing the opponent being taken fully down nor showing a smooth transition if he manages to resist the first pull down. However we were talking about this in my class at the weekend and my feeling is that you have to be very wary about uprooting an opponent and then pulling them towards you. Can I suggest the following.
You brought up a very IMPORTANT point, that is, "uprooting an opponent and then pulling him towards you" is dangerous. Instead, you should pull him sideway to your back.
When he stumble, give him a push on his side. He'll fall harder sideway than forward.When he falls forward, he could step forward to get balance. But when he fall sideway, he has no limbs to support to get balance.
when using An at the front, it should be a sudden and extended sinking force. The opponent will lose his balance and momentum, and he won't be able to launch any attack. Throwing him sideway requires more execution thus not as efficient and effective. Adequate amount of control should be extended into the opponent through any contact to disable him from launching anymore attacks.
Thanks for your inspiring videos, George. I'm not with you on this one, though. The point that the master in the video is trying to show is very valid, and it is that following "peng" to deflect the attack, you can continue with "lu" to bring your opponent down. If that is successful like in the video, then you should finish the technique. The point is that if the opponent resists the pull of the "lu", then go with his force and issue with "an". The concept is fine, but maybe it is shown poorly.
Do you see that after pulling his opponent down, the master's hands loses contact and wait for the opponent to move up before he can execute the "an"?
The proposed 'error' is in the partner being pulled down and then bouncing into the groin. But look closer and you might see that the ‘demonstrated technique’ is at exactly at 0:13, then the partner is 'released'. The issue is with the actions that come after the displayed technique is 'ceased'.
Techniques arise out of correct posture, form, jing(s), and all the things that are 'internal' instead of 'external'. Ripples on the water may show flow, but the flow is not the ripples.
PlayHanghang 3 months ago
@PlayHanghang It is NOT a smart move to pull your opponent toward yourself. Don't you think so? I do. I wont ever use both my hands to pull my opponent toward my chest which is wide open for attack.
georgehsliew 3 months ago
@georgehsliew - What I see is that the 'application' is not pulling towards himself, it is a pull down.
The release (to allow for breaking down the movements) is not part of the 'application' that is being demonstrated. That release creates the disagreeable motion towards the body.
The next 'application' is the 'following back' that is demonstrated as the partner attempts to regain their center by moving back.
PlayHanghang 3 months ago
@georgehsliew I understand that the pull was not toward himself. But a skilful and fast react opponent could redirect the force toward the puller. When you choreograph a move, you don't presume that your opponent has never been trained in any kind of martial arts.
georgehsliew 3 months ago
George, I agree with your analysis. Putting the "What if's" aside for a moment, one cannot deny that there is opportunity/opening there.
livinusa2003 3 months ago
@livinusa2003 Thank you. I think the opening is obvious.
georgehsliew 3 months ago
Hit the groin? No, wouldn't happen. Balance takes precedence over almost everything in the brain. If a murder is chasing you with an axe and you trip, all your brain power goes into regaining balance, you completely ignore the fact that a killer is right behind you.
In this video, the hands come down, to preserve balance and prevent falling over. There is no way an attack can be pulled off when all the brain is thinking about is regaining balance.
mamba109 5 months ago
@mamba109
You have good imagination.
georgehsliew 4 months ago
@georgehsliew Imagination? You can either keep talking, or try it yourself. This isn't theory. Have someone point a knife at your face, then let him jolt you in the back of the knees. I guarantee you that your hands will come down as you struggle for rebalance. Be careful as you might even fall right into the knife, because like I said, your brain completely ignores that fact that a knife exists, only balance is important in that instant of time.
It's simple physiology. Go back to school please
mamba109 4 months ago
@mamba109
Thanks for the advice.
georgehsliew 4 months ago
....you know the attacker's head is open and vulnerable to an array of attacks. You are going to barrel towards my legs? I have my whole upper body strength on the back of your neck...but nevermind that...I just raised my front knee to make a crater in your face.....
dylanspiritwind 8 months ago
Most of this has already been said:
Know Taichi principles before discrediting.
If the student continued forward, he would continue back taking another step if necessary, dragging the face to the earth. The empty front knee is easily raised to meet the face. The power is coiled ready to attack while he student's is dissipated. The hands are free, right next to the head to strike he head, push, or clap the ears. The elbows can drop to the occiput or protect. If you have ever used this ..
dylanspiritwind 8 months ago
double leg takedown!
sickofdao 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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cwcfrancis 8 months ago
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cwcfrancis 8 months ago
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cwcfrancis 8 months ago
in a low brow braw, the low brow brawler would bite his nuts off
WDTripps 9 months ago 2
@WDTripps
This is funny.lol
georgehsliew 8 months ago
@WDTripps Sir, he couldn't because in a brawl the master's right knee would have rearranged his teeth. Best regards!
lebarosky 6 months ago
@lebarosky lol maybe, maybe not, fighting can have some unexpected twists for sure.
WDTripps 6 months ago
I don't see how the master's groin is at risk. The student's hands are down and he is off balance therefore any strike would be extremely weak and put him in a worse position. If you're talking about a head butt to the groin, this would be very easily neutralized and again leave the student in a worse position.
jonruffer 10 months ago
@jonruffer If he wants to counter attack, the student would take advantage of the momentum force to trike the teacher's chest with his head. The reason why the student went down simply because he didn't want to strike back.
georgehsliew 10 months ago
@georgehsliew What do you mean counter attack? He doesn't need to counter attack. The student's force has been dealt with. I really don't see how you can think that leaning forward, off balance, with someone's arms between you and the opponent's body is a superior position, or would hold any tactical advantage. The clip that you've frozen, doesn't illustrate how off balance the student is. If he did use his head, the master could just use lu to send him into a worse position.
jonruffer 9 months ago
@jonruffer The student can take advantage of the pull and step forward using his head to strike. He is off balance because he didn't react to the pull. This is his teacher's show.
georgehsliew 9 months ago
@georgehsliew The student is off balance from the moment he commits himself to the push. From there the teacher supports the incoming force and pressures down. He does not pull anything. From there, you're right, the student could lunge forward with his head. This I would deem to be an extremely foolish move. This seems to be a fairly straightforward demonstration of "an". The technique could be tightened up a bit, but he is demonstrating a principle or idea rather than specific technique.....
jonruffer 9 months ago
A clearer demonstration of this principle that I have seen on youtube is Fighting concepts from tai chi 24 form. Part 3. by taijiman7777 at around 5:35. They are demonstrating the same thing.
jonruffer 9 months ago
@jonruffer Never pull your opponent toward yourself when your "door" is wide open for attack. But that's completely up to you.
georgehsliew 9 months ago
If you think that this guy is showing an application where you yank someone down into your groin and stand there, you are just holding a double standard against tai chi martial applications. Search for ___ Applications, where ___ is karate, MMA, judo, whatever. Nearly everyone demonstrates techniques slowly- they're not pretending that they couldn't be hit during a demonstration. 'An' is a technique where you disrupt someone's root by depressing it, and it would lead to a strike or rollback.
luccetransportation 1 year ago
If he were pulling the opponent, it would be bad. But that is not what happens with this technique. One could be forgiven for thinking it were so, since the internal structure is difficult to see. Lu isn't pull, it's a roll, & unlike Zai, Lieh, Zhou and Kao, the energy in Lu always engages the opponent's centre. The defender first receives the attacker's energy with peng, setting up reaction which he expoits. Think of it as a sophisticated sprawl for people who don't want to go to the ground.
taijiman7777 1 year ago
There are no preconceived techniques in Tai Chi push-hands. You react only to opponent's moves through "listening" & "understanding" of his jing force. I cannot agree more that pulling your opponent is suicidal and is preconceived. Yet one learns more through asking and pondering.
zipdrive011 1 year ago
@zipdrive011
Very well said.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
As long as you are "sung" then you are circular. PH as in Tai Chi has no form. Its a matter of "sui-ji-ing-bien" - reacting to opponent's moves hence the saying - Giving up myself to follow the opponent. I know my opponent and my opponent don't know me. Its also a matter of moving later and arriving earlier. Please correct me if I am wrong to say that.
zipdrive011 1 year ago
@zipdrive011
Pulling your opponent toward yourself is committing suicide. It has nothing to do with what you'd said.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
@georgehsliew aiiiiiiiii.........
accesstw28 1 year ago
@zipdrive011 Not saying you are wrong,but I would not speak of something without first seeing if the information is correct,than if it is study it until it changes your whole concept of life.Tai chi's deepest secrets are in the theories,they are like zen koans,once understood you are awakened.I hear alot of people saying what they think tai chi is,but recently I had a new understanding of tai chi,and this is not what tai chi is.Tai chi is ultimate consciousness beyond identity.TAOISM is TAI CHI
wayfareoftaoism 10 months ago
The master did a "tsai" NOT a "lu" technique. It is not fair to comment about his groin being open to attack when he demo in photo-frame techniques. In a realistic defense, a tsai tech could slam you to the ground - head first! What open attack to the groin?
zipdriver011 1 year ago
@zipdriver011
Thank you for your comments.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
@georgehsliew In all honesty with the momentum being what it is, he groin is open for attack but the opponent isn't able to capitalize on that opening. I think the better question is can the opponent attack from that position?
Ryooken 1 year ago
@Ryooken
See my reply to @zipdriver011.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
@zipdriver011
Yes. But it depends on the reflex of the opponent. It depends on how ell the opponent is trained. I don't think we should presume the opponent is a slow response guy. It's always not smart to pull the opponent toward yourself.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
This is just a demo of how one neutralizes a push to the chest in photo-frame movements. It is not proper to comment that the master's groin is open to an attack. The photo-frame moves are just to show his next move. In a realistic defense against such an attack, the master did a "tsai" which could make the opponent slam to the ground - head first.
zipdriver011 1 year ago
your videos are cool but your a retard.
akksnz 1 year ago
Part 1 :)
I think this was a very interesting point to raise.
And I agree, as some people have remarked, that you can pick holes in any application if you use different scenarios and so forth. Especially at slow speed, demonstrating applications, breaking them down and teaching them are quite different to executing them with smooth technique.
taichiwarrioress 1 year ago
@taichiwarrioress Thank you.
georgehsliew 1 year ago
Part 1 (b)
However, having said that, from my knowledge... when I started learning applications, I was taught that the aim is to lead the 'attacker' into their own void, therefore, avoiding and displacing. Not bringing their line of force into you, without moving or at least turning the hip. I know this application as 'beginning style'. And I would say this video is demonstrating 2 variations of the application at the same time.
taichiwarrioress 1 year ago
Part 2.... :)
When I learnt this particular application I was taught 2 main variations depending on what you want to do... Either encourage the attacker into their own void by displacing and redirecting their attack using downward directed force whilst turning the hip; or.. to redirect their force down and back onto themselves and uproot, that the movement is akin to a wave.
This is just my opinion from my knowledge base, I am an eternal student.
Love and chi :)
taichiwarrioress 1 year ago
It'S all relative in practice. He cpuld of just kneed the guy in the face while pulling him dowm too. It's all relative, you can'T look at one application without finding any holes in it somewhere, especially at slow speed.
micsir888 1 year ago
I think after the pull it's meant to push the opponent right afterwards rather then leading the opponents head around the groin region. Kinda like the push and pull jing.
quanjiahao87 2 years ago
George is so wise! I always astonished by his wisdow! I hope someday I can be one tenth of what he is.
igcoyote 2 years ago
George, I don't think you can fight or have ever been inside a NHB, multistyle tourney like Sabaki Challenge or no cage mma fighting. In fact, truth be told, it seems like you have no fighting knowledge at all. No concept of body mechanics, when practicing a concept which is merely part of a fight, etc.
THIS WAS MERELY AN EXERCISE TO SEE HOW FAR ONE CAN EXTEND AN ATTACKING FORCE until it expires so that the 'master' can attack without resistance from the completely splayed student.
PuYanHui 2 years ago
I do not agree with you. Thanks for the comments.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
Instead of leaving negative comments, why don't you make your own video to demonstrate what you mean. No one is a 'master', we are all students no matter how accomplished, so lets learn, not argue. Demonstrate your point, don't shove it.
3wr33k 2 years ago
well, to me i think 1st. mistake was to let the attacker touch his cheat in the 1st. place.
I WAS TAUGHT TO DEFEND THAT ATTACk by moving forward and not backwards at all. yes the hands and armes to peng upward and the push should be a strike.
and the grto attack. thx. for sharing sifu.
CottonBoxer 2 years ago
"TO DEFEND BY MOVING FORWARD"...
I like that !!!
georgehsliew 2 years ago
Also, if you understood anything about taiji and what this demo was demonstrating, you would see that the Sifu did nothing wrong at all! When he received the opponent's push, he shifted his weight back, and the opponent's balance was already upset. How on earth can someone with an upset balance still kick someone's groin??? You've just illustrated YOUR OWN ignorance of fight principles and balance!
lucidmist 2 years ago
I respectfully disagree with you. Thank you for taking the time to view the video and making comments.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
You "respectfully" disagree with me, after you've disrespected all these teachers you're putting down when they know much more than you. Oh, the hypocrisy.
lucidmist 2 years ago
I also respectfully pointed out what I think about their moves. Whatever I pointed out in my videos is only what I believe.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
If you respected them, maybe you shld discuss with the source (or their top followers) prior to discrediting them. This isn't respect - it is in part defamation - calling them frauds.
lucidmist 2 years ago
I don't think that the demos were fraud. In some demos, the masters did not want to tell what actually the techniques were. In other demos, the masters' techniques do have loopholes. I just honestly tell what I believe and that is only my own opinion.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
This is a demo! Man, you have NO IDEA what you're talking about, or what the demo is trying to illustrate here! It's like tuishou and chi sao, practice of drills, based on its own martial principles! This was NEVER meant to be a demo of a real fight scenario!
lucidmist 2 years ago
Demo is a presumed real fight. If you can't make it perfect in demo, how can you win in real fight? No matter wjat kind of martial arts, you don't open yourself for attack. You don't presume that your opponent inferior.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
WRONG. There are many kinds of demos. Some demos are just to illustrate certain principles. This demo was NOT meant to replicate a fight scenario. There are many aspects of taiji, this is just to demonstrate one of the 8 aspects of push-hands, NOT demonstrating a fight.
Just like many of your own so-called "fight" demos, the standing postures were wrong. None of you were standing or attacking the way a real fight would be. But they were only demos right?
lucidmist 2 years ago
This sucks simply because the scenario is totally unrealistic.
monkfg 2 years ago
I think that the guy who has his groin open could have easily taken one more step back on the Lu, and smashed the guys head into the ground. I think it was nice of the guy not to hurt his partner. I also think that a choke hold would have gone very nicely after the pull down, which would also have dealt with the whole groin thing. Do you have a video clip of someone doing it right? that's what I am looking for...
richardshapiroII 2 years ago
I don't think pulling opponent toward yourself is a good idea, unless you just presume that he has no martial training at all.
I haven't seen other clips doing the same thing.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
well lu in chinese never mean pull towards urself- lu is better thought as pull in/away not towards oneself. it means "withdraw". So theoreticaly its Following oponent 'down & away' while drawing your energy in
imbrd 2 years ago
by drawing your energy in, lu naturally become ji or compress, you compress your energy ready to move, strike, uproot, or further off balance oponent. really these energies lead one into another- u cant think of them seperately like single techniques but mor like fluidly with each forming the next
imbrd 2 years ago
Well again. This videos title is incorrect. Where can you see peng? Peng is block. And it's peng, lu, ji, an. It's a complex movement. You block attack with peng, you pull opponet, you push opponent, open his arms, step back with your hands on his shoulders, so you make sure you control his body, then push him. George frankly...know the source of water you drinking. This video shows only misunderstanding of the technique.
sharesomeshit 2 years ago
We have deferent definition of Peng. But it doesn't matter, we just talk about techniques. Thank you for your comments.
georgehsliew 2 years ago
就練太極拳的人來說，撥開或是下壓的動作只要有足夠的「功力」就可以做到。暫且不論這是否切實際，如果施術者根本做不出來那也不會有空門的問題。
hermitwhite 2 years ago
這也要看對手的「功力」吧！招式技法的設計是不能把對手當作庸才的。對嗎？
georgehsliew 2 years ago
我認為你沒有實際接觸過太極。這是分解動作，所以被示範的人才會停在那個位置；然而這不代表實際使用時受技者有機會站定、穩住重心、出手攻擊。你對這段影片應該提問的地方在於：輕輕把對手的兩手同時撥開是否可能。
hermitwhite 2 years ago
太極更不宜脫手。脫手就是不擅黏連所致。
georgehsliew 2 years ago
Comment removed
hermitwhite 2 years ago
I am against fighting brute force and the weight of the opponent. I won't lift the guy's arms like that because the guy put his weight behind it.
In Taiji, I would do a double Yuan Feng Bi 圓封閉from outside in to seal the guy's incoming attack and send him to the ground.
In Wing Chun, I would do just a double Jut Sao to send the guy to the ground. The guy wil be losing his balance and momentum, he won't be able to attack when he is being dropped too fast.
wingchuntaiji 3 years ago
Good points.
georgehsliew 3 years ago
Master Fu is a famous Taiji master. He was only showing some applications of Opening Taiji that contained Peng, Lu, An in the movement. That was not a real combat situation, and he was just illustrating the application of these movements. The opponent already lost his balance and momentum, his body and both hands dropped sharply before he could anticipate the sudden drop. Unless the opponent could defy the gravity, arch his neck back , open his mouth and bite, he won't be able to attack! (=:
wingchuntaiji 3 years ago
Pulling the guy towards yourself is not a smart move, unless you just presume he has not been trained in any kind of martial arts. A trained guy could react fast enough to step up for a head strike using the momentum force.
georgehsliew 3 years ago
This is different than fighting at a distance. The contact has been made and the control has been established. A good martial artist can extend control to the point that the opponent can not do anything such as no way to kick or headbutt!
The situation became like Wing Chun Chi Sao, the training is for learning to extend control through contact. With total control, the opponent can be in any position and still loses all of the motions and momentum. Part 1
wingchuntaiji 3 years ago
In Double-hand Chi Sao, it is very often to face the opponent center to center. Using the principle of "Retain when it comes, send when it goes." to control the opponent's motions, momentums and structure. It is easy to cause the imbalance of the opponent when he is being controlled. Using fast downward sinking can stop the opponent's kick and headbutt. With both hands up at the front, the opponent can not headbutt without giving out his throat and neck! Part 2
wingchuntaiji 3 years ago
A good Wing Chun guy should be able to extend total control to an opponent with very little contact. With the control extended to the opponent's structure, the opponent cannot move anywhere he wants.
P.S. It was bringing the opponent downward by sinking, not bringing the opponent to one's own bosom! Part 3
wingchuntaiji 3 years ago
Keep moving master, step round or push away, which he does after a pause - maybe for demostration purposes. The Golden Roaster could always stand one his one leg!
softengines 3 years ago
The pause is not for demonstration purpose. He paused because he had to wait for the student to rise up a little so that he could push the student's shoulders.
georgehsliew 3 years ago
Thank you for your videos, they are really inspiring. I think you're right about that the "an" can be dangerous this way. But if the master pulls the opponent fully down to the ground, then I think he won't really need it, because he can simply step back after the pull. What do you think?
kenadra13 3 years ago
Agree. He should pull the opponent fully down to the ground since he had made two steps back. Or he should made one step back and pull his opponent sideway.
georgehsliew 3 years ago
A) get back nice an quick to ensure your opponent ends up flat on their face.
B) As the head drops raise your knee
C) as you pull down step to the side, this produces a twist in your opponent which makes it harder to resist and also allows you the open up their body for a push or attack.
Any thoughts?
beatthetiger2008 3 years ago
Re A), your opponent may make use of your pulling force, step up, and hit you with his head.
Re B), I would pull and raise my knee simoutaneously.
Re C), I would step back, say right leg, and pull him to my right toward the back. Give him a push on his side when stumbles.
georgehsliew 3 years ago
I'm half and half on this one. Clairvoyager is correct that the demo isn't showing the opponent being taken fully down nor showing a smooth transition if he manages to resist the first pull down. However we were talking about this in my class at the weekend and my feeling is that you have to be very wary about uprooting an opponent and then pulling them towards you. Can I suggest the following.
beatthetiger2008 3 years ago
Thank you for the comments.
You brought up a very IMPORTANT point, that is, "uprooting an opponent and then pulling him towards you" is dangerous. Instead, you should pull him sideway to your back.
When he stumble, give him a push on his side. He'll fall harder sideway than forward.When he falls forward, he could step forward to get balance. But when he fall sideway, he has no limbs to support to get balance.
georgehsliew 3 years ago
when using An at the front, it should be a sudden and extended sinking force. The opponent will lose his balance and momentum, and he won't be able to launch any attack. Throwing him sideway requires more execution thus not as efficient and effective. Adequate amount of control should be extended into the opponent through any contact to disable him from launching anymore attacks.
wingchuntaiji 3 years ago
Thanks for your inspiring videos, George. I'm not with you on this one, though. The point that the master in the video is trying to show is very valid, and it is that following "peng" to deflect the attack, you can continue with "lu" to bring your opponent down. If that is successful like in the video, then you should finish the technique. The point is that if the opponent resists the pull of the "lu", then go with his force and issue with "an". The concept is fine, but maybe it is shown poorly.
clairvoyager 3 years ago
Thanks for the kind words and comments.
Do you see that after pulling his opponent down, the master's hands loses contact and wait for the opponent to move up before he can execute the "an"?
georgehsliew 3 years ago