Antigone by Sophocles (1984 TV) Juliet Stevenson (part 3/11)

[Notakolatronic]

Only If This Movie Was Made In The 2000's Timee -.- Its Boring

[shivanebangkok2008]

 chorus sounds too gay!

[asafk8]

@shivanebangkok2008 Back in those days the chorus and old people in overall were very respected. Creon's attitude toward them is part of his hubris.

[618juan]

it wouldn't be so bad if the chorus wasn't there



[12345ndfan]

i love how the guy said scared shitless

[kingtonio2533]

THIS STORY IS INTRESTING THEY JUST TALK TO MUCH SPECIALLY THE SENTARY

[ameeliavirginia]

Chorus: blah blah blah blah blah gods blah blah dramatic muic blah

me: SHUT THE HELL UP

[dazzan69]

lol  the clothes dont even look to fit the time

[BryonAWitHonors]

@dazzan69 they never said they were setting it in the original time that the play was. many versions do different time periods

[dazzan69]

the adio is messed up thats why htere is a buzzing it only buzzes whne the fuzzy gos acros the screen

[koenan1]

8:06 old-school Doctor Who music?

[QueenB9687]

omg this buzzing is beyond annoying its dreadful i'm so distracted by it and i have to watch this play for a paper

[nounou388]

i hate how those men talk at the same time it's annoying

[BehindTheSpiderEyes]

The chorus is very irritating. They're almost comically unnecessary.

[livelacrosse56]

the buzzing is really annoying

[Rosealeee]

i wounder if they really said "scared shit less" back then :P

[YourCuntingDaughter]

@Rosealeee ...they spoke Greek back then.

[connecttokan]

what with the settings, it had to be like 300 BCE

[BehindTheSpiderEyes]

@connecttokan Minus the "E," of course.

[connecttokan]

@BehindTheSpiderEyes before common era, not everyone have to use the bible reference.

[connecttokan]

what with the settings, its like 300 BCE

[bintuae1]

ohh it sucks :(

i wouldnt watch it if there wasnt a project includes this shit

[bmx4evr632]

WHAT THE FUCK?! really? wow... kill me now... this is the shitiest and most boring video i have ever seen.. thumbs up if you agree

[Tristan1022]

Excellent! Nice production.

[bmx4evr632]

@Tristan1022 NERDD!!!

[SailorDirector]

Kreon's costume looks like something out of the twilight zone.

[AnnieeTing]

I think it is only within a person's humane right to be buried and Antigone is only disobeying Creon because she believes that the laws of humanity holds far more in significance than the laws of Creon, a mortal. Creon, on the other hand is far more law oriented than to humane emotions.

[thefeliciat619]

"drew the shortest straw". Creon also used his own judgement (as part of humanism) to refuse to listen to his advisors when they said that his original law of leaving Polynices' body unburied was unreasonable and that it had gone too far.

[thefeliciat619]

The messenger portrays an image of trying to spread the blame around. He knows that the messenger who brings bad news is not well-liked among the listeners. Here is where Creon shows some aspect of humanism. He judges the messenger and he concludes that he should be threatened. As a result, Creon declares that if the messenger doesn't bring back the person who committed the crime, he would get killed. Creon believes that this is necessary to be implemented onto the man who

[bmx4evr632]

@thefeliciat619  COMPLETE NERD!!!!

[hlaw110360]

Kreon showed humanism when he tried to use his own reasoning to judge what is right and what is wrong. Kreon just reasoned that Polynices was the wrong one and should be left to rot without a proper burial, while he ordered the other brother, Eteocles to be buried in honor. Both brothers killed each other at the same time. how would he know who is really the one that was wrong if he just decides to use his reasoning and thoughts (and his reason is law) only?

[adnannece]

Creon is the person who is setting all the laws, setting the standards of what's right and what's wrong. People had to live by these laws, and very few people dared to disagree with what Creon had to say. However, I don't agree with everything he says. Even though Polynices betrayed his people, he still has the right to be buried.

AnneL

[Vtsan430]

, especially when his law is created by him, his position as King does not make his laws, laws of men. -vivienne

[Vtsan430]

The aspect of humanism is present when we Creon rashly assumes that the guard is indeed guilty and is getting some kind of side money for not catching the criminal who buried Polynices. It is a very humanistic trait to assume the worst of things; which Creon did with the Guard. I think that Creon before making his law about not burying Polynices should've known that his law would not be absolute and followed directly

[kjopowicz]

Is humanism rash or negative? Where did we read that?

[applejuice1000000]

... and Creon's reasoning is right and so the Gods would agree with Creon over Polynices? So I believe that Creon's belief that whatever he thought is to be right would be backed up by the Gods is false.

[applejuice1000000]

... the same common possession of reason with the Gods. Creon did not look at the whole picture, where Polynices only tried to take the throne of Thebes because it was his rightful place as king - Oedipus had decided that the two brothers would alternate as the ruler of Thebes, and Eteocles had disobeyed Oedipus' order. Polynices had used his reasoning to determine that it would be the right thing to try and take his place as king forcefully - who is to say that Polynice's reason is wrong ...

[applejuice1000000]

... believe is wrong would be seen the same was as the Gods. He speaks about how due to this common possession of reason, the Gods would agree with him that Polynices was a traitor and is equal to "a pile of stinking meat", and should not be given the right of a proper burial - to be forced into eternal suffering. Although Creon does possess reason, I believe that what he is saying is false, as he is not taking into account the reasoning of Polynices, which as a human being, should also share ..

[applejuice1000000]

(AJ) In this little clip, Creon really shows his humanistic roots, believing that he, as human being, can rightly determine what is right or wrong based on his ability of reason. He believes that based on this ability, he has the right to do what he wants to for the sake of "promoting societal welfare" - making him a good ruler. Connecting to Cicero's rule of Law, it is obvious Creon believes that he and the Gods share the same ability of reason, and based on his moral values, what he would ...

[annikarelliott]

Why does Antigone let herself get into this mess she should've buried her brother without having to be punished. Its her right to do whatever she pleases with her family. I still cant believe how drastically having the power over the city has changed Creon.

[holyoak83]

when Creon says " is it remotely likely that the Gods would think twice about the pile of stinky meat?" doesn't this go against the whole idea of fate and destiny? Both of Antigone's brothers fate was to die. Therefore, the Gods would care about them, and everyone else because the brother's fate affects the fate of Antigone and many other people. Also, Creon said that the Gods would not care if the rebel brother was not buried, but then why would they care if the other brother was buried?

[JodieWYC]

Kreon was being humanistic by disregarding the fact that his creating of that law might anger his "gods" and went with his reasoning that a traitor, should be punished. I believe that Cicero would have somewhat agreed with Kreon's actions because he believed that reason was above all, and what defined human beings and set us apart from other species...shouldn't we use that ability given to us? Wouldn't that gift be waisted if it wasn't used?

[fhmlo]

I think Creons lust for power has increased since the last time we saw him, power can do weird things to people, in this case it's as if the power has gotten the best of Creon. Personally the return of the soldier just did it for Creon. Later to be questioned by Antigone... Who seems to have a much more legitimate ideas. Although I say this everyday, I have mixed thoughts on this clip as although I think Antigone is correct, On the Laws states that "Let the punishment fit the offense" .

[JodieWYC]

I find it unjust when Kreon declared the guard who delivered the news of Polynices' burial would be punished in the place of the "crime doer" if the guard was unable to find the culprit. There is an old saying that goes something like, " be mad at the message and not the messenger", the guard was obeying the law and showing his loyalty to Kreon when he reported the news... shouldn;t he be rewarded instead of threatened?

[JodieWYC]

I agree with Denise that Kreon was being a good ruler, though his laws may not be just, he is enforcing them and showing that no one, even his blood relations are exempt from the punishment. Much like the way Oedipus had stated that he was not exempt from the curse that he asked the gods to give the person that went against the state( by protecting the identity of Laius's killer.

[denisehbh]

I support Antigone's actions although they go against the law, because in this case the law is unjust. Although I strongly disagree with Creon's law, I do think that he is being a good ruler by punishing Antigone just as he would have punished anyone else, even though she is his niece. He is standing by the rule of law - that no one is exempt from it.

[denisehbh]

(i'm re-posting my comments because it looks like they ahve been erased..)

[denisehbh]

It is quite ridiculous that Creon is accusing the messenger of burying Polynices' body. Like Euvin said, he has zero proof of whether or not this happened. However, - NOT that I support it - I think that he is only doing this to create more fear among the people in the society. If they see what happens to someone who (was said by Creon to have) disobeyed this law that Creon created, no one in their right minds would disobey any other laws in fear of the punishments they will face.

[rayleerusso]

The chorus acts like Creons minions. They agree with everything he says and support him. Even if they don't agree. For example, when they say things like " limited in his skill" or "there is no problem he cannot resolve by the exercise of his brains or his breath." They act like they admire everything he says or does. The idea that one man has a say over a whole kingdom o people is crazy. The fact that this type of rule went on for so long is mind-bobiling.

[bp8120367]

Oh commmmment by bryn

[bp8120367]

(yet still demanding and stubborn) in the written text. Here there seems to be no remnants of family ties, or love between the two.

[kunals100]

I think that Creon's power has gotten the best of him. When Oedipus was king, he was content to have shared power, and was always a man with noble intentions. However, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and that is what has happened to Creon. Cicero said that Nature was God's messenger, and told us things that we needed to learn. When Creon didn't recognize God's sign, represented powerfully in nature, he did something that would've been considered highly inadvisable by Cicero.

[bp8120367]

In this scene, Creon talks a lot about people disobeying his law, and how his law is like the law of the Gods, and it must be obeyed. This reminds me of CIcero and how he writes of men and God being within the same league in many subjects. Cicero says that the laws of man are also the laws of the Gods, which Creon touches upon. Also, although in the original text the dialogue was harsh, in this adaption it seemed harsher. The exchange between Creon and Antigone is much more heart felt

[Genjuruhi]

De ja vu possibly to Oedipus? Men of power with anger issues, check. Major overload with assuptions, check. Power abuse, check. Funny though, this was the man who said he didn't want to be King. Now he is one and he's.. well.. isn't it a bit obvious at this point? (As it is told by this video)

The connection I find to Cicero would be this: They're both rather... extreme. Cicero says, "Humans rule, rant rant rant!" while Creon says, "My law is absolute, loud yelling and accusations!" - GH

[Christine752]

...his wits and his obviously great powers of speech to make a law makes the aforementioned law right in any way. Humans may have a great intelligence, but that definitely doesn't mean we use it wisely.

[Christine752]

I believe that Creon is being so harsh not only because he wants to do what he believes to be right, but also because he thinks he will be perceived as a strong king that way. Creon seems to think that no one will respect him if he doesn't enforce his own laws, and he's most likely right. After all, we call people who break their own rules hypocrites. However, I also think his law was a little too harsh in the first place. Creon has a very humanistic view on life if he thinks that simply using

[calebiscool1]

I also noticed what Tara noticed in relation with the chorus and cicero. They definitely did this on purpose to show how the law was effecting that certain situation

[calebiscool1]

I also agree with martin on the whole idea with the relation to the Cold War. The idea of secret police and torture were very true to those days and were used to instill fear in the population and scare them from becoming communist or associating themselves with communism.

[adioboyy69]

... simply told the story of what happened, and was wrongfully and brutally accused and threatened by Creon. Yes, I agree with the fact that he was striking fear in to the minds of anyone who disobeyed the law, but to like and cover up the truth then tell him he would publicly slay him, is just corrupt and un just. Jonathan Raines

[calebiscool1]

Although I did initially believe the punishment was a little harsh, I now believe it is right. I believe this because Creon has to show people the consequences of being a traitor. He has to show that no one is above the law and how everyone is treated equally. He shows this by saying that he would even imprison his own son for doing the same crime. I think that antigone should be punished because she knew the law, its not like it wasn't presented properly.

[adioboyy69]

After reading the comments of my peers, I have to say, I agree with a lot of it. Not pointing out names, cause it would take a while, but I'll point out the things I agreed on. I believe that Creon has been very un just with his rule, and his accusations against the guard. Regarding the rule...yes, he is a good leader for sticking with it, and up holding the law, but it is in fact HIS law. The law is kind of stupid and I totally side with Antigone on that one. The guard did nothing wrong, he

[kjopowicz]

Accusations or insinuations? Methinks that if he REALLY believed or had enough evidence he wouldn't have let the guard live. Recall Oedipus investigation and how Creon later demands more proof of the guard about Antigone.

[Tara546]

... didn't really consider was that his law contradicted a moral right; an eternal law that would never change.

[Tara546]

The chorus speaks of the exact same things as Cicero -- "Is there anything more wondrous on earth than the miracle of man?... There is no problem he cannot resolve by the exercise of his brains or his breath". They also speak about how when men's powers uphold the constitution of the Gods and their laws, the city prospers. I think that Creon thought that his law was as just as any law the Gods made, and that in order for his city to prosper & stay safe, he would have to uphold it. What he...

[Tara546]

Also, "There is no problem he cannot resolve by the exercise of his brains or his breath" is a very humanistic view. The chorus is saying that man was created with so much reason, intelligence, wit, etc, that by simply using his brain and his power of speech, any problem of his can be solved.

[bradfordlex]

Creon blames the guard because right now he's in a struggle for power and he's trying to show his subject he still has control over the kingdom, however, when antigone speaks, she speaks the truth, she follows the rules of human decency. not some power hungry king. and she's his neice I don't see any respect he shows towards her.

[denisehbh]

Also, this is a case in which I support Antigone's actions even though tyhey go against Creon's laws, because I think the laws were quite unjust. But I do believe that Creon is being a good ruler by punishing Antigone according to his law, though she is his neice and is engaged to his son, just like he would have punished any other person if they had buried Polynices.

[morganemilythibault]

I respect Antigone for being brave and doing what she believed was right, even though she knew she would have to suffer the consequences. I agree with jaclyn's statement "everyone deserves a burial but now i do feel a little bad for him because now he has a tough choice". I agree that everyone deserves a burial no matter what they did right or wrong in their lives, and Antigone did what she believed in. Now, will she have to be put to death or will Creon let her live?

[denisehbh]

It is quite ridiculous that Creon is accusing the messenger of burying Polynices' body. Like Euvin said, he has zero proof of whether or not this happened. However, - NOT that I support it - I think that he is only doing this to create more fear among the people in the society. If they see what happens to someone who (was said by Creon to have) disobeyed this law that Creon created, no one in their right minds would disobey any other laws in fear of the punishments they will face.

[MartinMI6]

3:23 Kreon threatens the messenger with interrogation by the secret police! I think this play really reflects the atmosphere of the era in which it was produced. The Cold War is going on, there's a kind of third Red Scare, China's Communist Party is gaining power, East Germany is still being occupied. Kreon is dressed in this military uniform, with stars on it. He has these black, solemn minions, his stormtroopers sort of, that keep an eye on everything.

[TheDonLau]

Antigone is disrupting the laws. There is no such thing as a natural right. You have to follow the laws of your society. Her brother was a traitor and there is nothing worse than that. It is unforgivable that you fight against your own people. Justice cannot be determined by Antigone herself, is it not just that a traitor gets the punishment he deserves? Traitors today are killed and spat on without burial. Traitors cannot be respected. No-one is above the law.

[bowiiex3]

However, Creon is wrong for accusing that all people are selfish like that. Of course, there are some people out there who would do anything to be 'rich', but most people have morals and stick to them.

[bowiiex3]

Creon's accusation of the guard about being paid to bury the body can relate to the Cicero's rule of law. This is because in Cicero's argument, he says that humans have a tendency of evil and goodness. In this case, Creon claims that all people are 'evil' in the sense that they will do anything for money, even if they see it as morally wrong. To be honest, I agree that many people who see money as their lives never end up living happily, even if they have gained all the money in the world.

[120415]

Here, I thought Creon became more stubborn than when Creon was younger, as he gave harsh punishments for the small law he made about not letting a body get buried: Does he not have better things to do than worry about who could have tried to bury the body?

[120415]

I thought that what Creon did to the guard was quite like how Oedipus accused Creon of betraying his country, as they both had no proof of the treason, and the accused probably didn't go against the king. Both Oedipus and Creon both accused in their anger of what happened, and were not thinking properly. I found this ironic, as Creon once told Oedipus not to be so rash, and to use his reason when Oedipus accused Creon, and now Creon is accusing without his reason.

Euvin Kahng

[xjohn2006]

I agree with you Euvin, i like how you link up Oedipus and Creon. I think its extremely ironic how Creon treats this innocent soldier just as he was treated by Oedipus. We saw how shocked and hurt Creon was when he was accused of treason, but now that he has become king, he has completely forgotten that torment. Creon said himself that if he was responsible for Oedipus' accusations, he would die. But here, when he should show mercy and compassion for the soldier, shows no such thing.

[DrewH714]

to act like a God to the other?

[DrewH714]

"All submit to man." This quote makes me think of a few things. First of all, don't all submit to God? By implying all submit to man we are implying we are like God, and are we allowed to do this? A second way to think of this, is that man in the quote refers to Creon, as the unjust ruler. The way he treats the messenger is cruel with unjust punishments. Creon is not a God he cannot do this. Are some humans allowed to be like the divine and others not? What gives one human the right...

[jacxphi]

I agree with Antigone's actions of burying her brother and pleading guilty to it. She had good reason to do so, because at the time it was very uncommon to not hold a burial ceremony for the dead. Antigone disobeyed Creon's strict societal rules in order to fulfill her own on justice and what is right. Creon's rules are inhumane, everyone deserves a burial but now i do feel a little bad for him because now he has a tough choice- will he put Antigone, his niece and soon daughter in law to death?

[jacxphi]

What Creon was doing to the guard reminds me of what Oedipus had done to Creon before- accusing him of things he did not do and without any proof. It seems to me that Creon believes that all humans are easily swayed by evil and will easily do evil if it is presented to them. He talks about how money is evilest of all inventions. I agree since money is one of the biggest global problems today and is the cause for a lot of bad deeds.

[karolynink]

At the part where the choir men are like "is there anything better than man?" & when they say that the gods were plowing and giving birth to life. This relates to the text we read called, "On the Laws" because somewhere in it it talks about how first they planted the seed of man and then plowed and gave them other things to accompany them in order for them to survive such as intelligence, art, etc. Also it seems like Creon is making his own laws without following the laws of the people.

carolyn

[karolynink]

I don't understand why the messenger is laughing when he says, "I hope i get out of here alive" and other stuff. He almost got killed and he's laughing about it.. i would be shaking and stumbling.

carolyn

[kjopowicz]

Ever heard of nervous laughter?

[mgm1994]

(mallory)

[mgm1994]

"political knowledge too, all the acts of government he has studied and refined...there is no problem he cant resolve by exercise of his brains or breath". The way the chorus talks about Creon, they seem very obedient to him and his laws. When they talk of his "breath" it means that as soon as he declares a new law, it immediately solves his problems. They speak so reverently of him it almost sounds like they think of him as god-like.

[kjopowicz]

Man, not just Creon.

[mgm1994]

The soldier who comes to deliver the message has an accent that is much more slang-like than King Creon and the chorus. This suggests that he is a more lowly character, not of the same level as Creon.

[cocochen10]

I think that just because Creon is king doesn't mean that he shouldn't care about his OWN nephew. Yes, he may have betrayed his own country but he is still a human being and maybe what he did was what the he thought was right. I really don't get why the messenger is so afraid of Creon, the messenger didn't do anything wrong but just saw who buried the body.

[kjopowicz]

Death sentence, maybe, if Creon makes a snap judgement.

[mgm1994]

The chorus dressed in black remind me of business executives arranged in front of the head of a company. The black robes they have are like the unifrom suits of a buisnessman and Creon is dressed differently to distinguish him as leader. They are arranged in a row in front of Creon and on a lower section of the stage suggesting that they are higher class than the messenger but are subservient to Creon.

[kjopowicz]

At some point they lose their capes!

[MMA31]

I don't like the guard because he's so cruel to Antigone. He speaks as if Antigone was just an object to be treated cruelly, he has no sense of compassion. I believe this shows the humanistic values how men dominates society and women are often seen as second class citizens. Also, Antigone follows the law of gods where she thinks it is right to bury her brother but Creon believes that he's a traitor therefore should not be buried, this is the human law created by Creon.

Jason C

[kjopowicz]

I think he does show some compassion eventually. Be prepared to say where.

[kjopowicz]

Why do you think she is so public about her defiance of the decree? Recall that at the beginning she encourages Ismene to run about and tell everyone about what she is going to do.

[justxollie]

I think that during that time, people lived in misery, because the king was the only one in control, so the king was the only one who made the "laws" and everyone had to live by it. However, I thought that some of the laws the king creates are quite unjust, just like how the king did not let Polynices's body to be buried even though he was a human being just like everyone else. Moreover, many laws created were unfair.

[JamesHar7]

Antigone is a sequel to Sophocles earlier work, Oedipus Rex, a play the critical Aristotle exclaimed to be the archetype tragedy, but his later play defies numerous characteristics listed in Artistoles Theory of Tragedy. Instead I see Antigone to be a playground for all philosophical ideas contemporary to the period. Antigone is initially hesitant to make her decision to bury her beloved brother. Instead I watch/read her repeatedly explain herself in the face of philosophical objection.

[kjopowicz]

My understanding is that the 3 Theban plays were written independently, not as a sequel one to the other. Which elements are discarded.

[yawateg]

Antigone was written first.

[kjopowicz]

Lina wins! Lina Wins!

Don't forget that you need to comment on possible connections to humanism and Cicero's discourse on the laws.

[kaylenfalse]

i'm hoping I can get by with watching this instead of reading it...*slacking off*

[Ke1raak]

Lol oldest of ageless gods... religious contradiction alert

[PatheticToady]

Ageless here means that they do not age. Oldest means first. If you were literate, you would know this sort of thing.

[Ke1raak]

Only the correction was necessary really wasn't it? Or do you just feel the need to insult everybody?

[GreekxTragedy]

He is not insulting any1, he is just stating a fact. Instead of learning something from him, you take it offensively. It does sound funny at first, but it is not necessarly a contridiction.

[progressprogress]

If Ke1raak were Illiterate -- as you imply -- he or she would probably not have watched this clip.

[crepesoftime]

Anyone recognize one of the chorus members as the Grail knight from "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade?

[barrywinehousexp]

3:57 - to finish his tirade on money with comment on the un-profitability of violating the State's dictates, hah.

[shelaghmckenna]

Good comments. Here's one more. Polyneices was a person. A subject, if I may give you a grammatical analogy. As an object, which he was to others (though unfortunately not to himself) he was loathsome. But his subjectivity was nevertheless inviolate, being an entirely different thing.

[mphuturem]

nice!