so funny, wasnt it catalunya who were fighting to maintain the spanish government during the civl war? they had their asses kicked and now they cry independence? every mock vote they have done in catalunya the results have been against catalan independence, now the communists have to turn to foreigner blacks to boost their low poll numbers.
@ssszar Catalonia fought in the civil war for defending democracy in Spain because democracy is the only context within which people can freely express themselves,either for claiming for independence or for belonging to Spain.On the other hand,"communism" has nothing to do with independentism.Please,review the state of the art in Catalan politics.Latest polls (performed by a Spanish institution) tell that independentism is growing in Catalonia.
@wmmvb thats nonsense, the catalonian nationalists have done mock election after mock election, poll after poll, and in every case catalonians have said that they do not want full independence. the ones pushing for a catalan nation are foreigners and communists, the catalans fought to maintain control of the government during the civil war, after their defeat, all of a sudden they want independence?
@ssszar Again,I recommend you to review the state of the art in Catalan politics.Independentism started to grow at the beginning of the 90's,when catalans began to see that Spain did not actually want a federal government,like Switzerland.The latest hostile sign from Spain has been banning a Catalan law that was voted by Catalans (independentists and those who are not).I've never been an independentist before:I've become one.And please,stop using the word "communist":it's old-fashioned.
@wmmvb exactly it started in the 90s thats my point, that this isnt a deep rooted ideal that catalans have had for generations, for centuries catalonia was part of spain, this modern movement is for and was started by spains communists and antifascists.
@ssszar The LAST trend started in the 90's,but during Catalonia's history several independentist movements have happened.Catalonia became formally Spain when Barcelona was invaded by the Castillian forces in 1714.From then,Catalan independentism has been feeded by the Spanish trend to impose its language and its idea to extinct any nationalism different than Spanish's.In Switzerland,all languages are official,but Spain has the naughty tradition of imposing its culture.
@ssszar The following Spanish document shows what I said (in this case,the policy that was taken in America):
"Que desde luego se pongan en práctica y observen los medios que van expresados y ha propuesto el mencionado muy Rdo. Arzobispo de México, para que de una vez se llegue a conseguir el que se extingan los diferentes idiomas que se usan en los mismos dominios y sólo se hable castellano."
@wmmvb This policy was taken up to Franco's dictatorship, and nowadays Spanish language is obliged to be the ONLY official language in Spain, leaving other languages as "less important" languages. It's just a matter of empathy. Would Spain or France accept to relegate their languages in favor of English (for example) if all states in Europe got unified?
@wmmvb as for spain and france accept to relegate their languages in favor of english you and i know we would not, whats the point of fighting to become an independent nation to only be part of the european union? maybe someday i could support the idea of an independent catalonia, but first these internationalists, will have to support the independence movements of where i am from and of hawaii first, as we have more to grieve about than catalonia does.
@ssszar The reason why we want to belong to Europe as an independent nation from Spain,is simple:a culture and a language can only survive if they have a state that supports them.Europe is a union of nations:we want to be one of these nations.Second,I support all independence movements 'cause I think that people cannot belong to other people.I think it's better to have two independent but intercollaborative nations that to have two sticked together nations in conflict in a single country.
@wmmvb but thats just it catalonia is that state already, spain operates on a basis of how the united states is supposed to run but is not, catalan language and culture is in no danger at the moment, the european union is nothing but an internationalist organization, where other nations get to impose their will upon others, what is the point of fighting to be a new nation in the eu only to give that soveringty away.
@ssszar We do prefer union rather than separation,but Spain doesn't let us to say we are a nation within Spain.For example,Scotland is a nation and UK regularly allows them to decide whether they want to be independent or not.So far,most part of scottish people seems to not want that.But that's good.That's democracy.We want to be asked whether to be or not independent.And we want to have an identity,which I think is as licit as for a french being a french, or an italian being an italian
@wmmvb catalonia is already in union with , every region of spain has its own identity, and its own culture and every gets along well except certain internationalists in catalonia and andalusia, and a couple terrorists in the basque area. and based of polls and mock elections, most catalonias either dont want independence or are not concered with it, we should not confuse catalonianism with catalonian nationalism.
@ssszarOK, you have the last word. However, I'd recommend you to check the link below. The information source is NOT pro-independentist. I said you should update your knowledge:
Of course, you'll say this article is a mock, written by marxists and north-korean communists. with help of gays and muslims that attempt to make Catalonia independent. ¬_¬
@wmmvb no its not a mock article, the mock elections were those put by communists, oh i cant say that, appearently there are no communists in spain, ok ill call them internationalists, as for the article, it affirms what i have been saying this whole time, that the majority of catalonians dont want full independence or dont care.
@ssszar What the article really points out is the increase of independentism. The fact of near the 50% of Catalonians wanting independence whereas in 1975 only around a 7% was independentist is meaningful:from then,people living in Catalonia has noticed how Spanish government doesn't give a damn to what catalans want or think.Even people emigrating from Andalusia to Catalonia have become independentists.Anyway,I'm used to this kind of long and endless discussions.I'm going on vacation.Goodbye!
@iwonderw No...De hecho las plataformas independentistas quieren que lo haya, pero toda iniciativa de referendum puede ser bloqueada en el Congreso de los Diputados, y si no, el Tribunal Constitucional se encargaría de hacerlo,como hizo con el Estatuto,aprobado en el Parlament,en el Congreso,y refrendado por el pueblo catalán.A la Constitución le importa poco lo que quiera un pueblo:sólo le importa lo que algunos decidieron en su momento que debería importar.
Going on with this log, today I've watched something funny on the TV. Two of the LESS voted parties in Catalonia (namely, "PP" - a conservative party which is always against everything that let human being to progress -, and "C's" - a some sort of little child of PP) say that people in the demonstration is a minority. Actually, people in the demonstration are voters of the remaining parties!!! You can easily recognize a person from PP or C's: they say they are always in the majority!
By the way, there's a doubtful source that reported only 56000 demonstrators!!! Well, it's plenty of videos in Youtube of this demonstration and everybody with eyes on the face can see that 56000 people is a ridiculous number.
@zandrit Thank you all. Spain actually does not recognize your country 'cause it is not interested in supporting independentisms. But Catalonia is with you!
@CalPolyisinPomona1 Thank you for your support! Football is for the moment, but freedom is forever. We know we live in a democratic Europe and Spain cannot use the force anymore. We must thank USA for giving the world a so great communication channel as Internet is!!!
@CalPolyisinPomona1 Don't worry, we clearly know that football is the only thing spaniards in Catalonia have to "prove" the supposed belong to Spain of this land. And that's also good for us, appart from football they have NOTHING to argue with us.Thanks for the support.
Spanish Constitutional Court says we're illegal for feeling a nation. And we just don't want to be illegal. Democracy is unstoppable. Let's call a referendum, let's see what Catalans wanna be and give to Europe.
INDEPENDENCIA DE CATALUNYA //*//
Marc Sabatés
sammiguier 1 month ago
Visca Catalunya Lliure!
espemaegs 5 months ago
so funny, wasnt it catalunya who were fighting to maintain the spanish government during the civl war? they had their asses kicked and now they cry independence? every mock vote they have done in catalunya the results have been against catalan independence, now the communists have to turn to foreigner blacks to boost their low poll numbers.
ssszar 1 year ago
@ssszar Catalonia fought in the civil war for defending democracy in Spain because democracy is the only context within which people can freely express themselves,either for claiming for independence or for belonging to Spain.On the other hand,"communism" has nothing to do with independentism.Please,review the state of the art in Catalan politics.Latest polls (performed by a Spanish institution) tell that independentism is growing in Catalonia.
wmmvb 1 year ago
@wmmvb thats nonsense, the catalonian nationalists have done mock election after mock election, poll after poll, and in every case catalonians have said that they do not want full independence. the ones pushing for a catalan nation are foreigners and communists, the catalans fought to maintain control of the government during the civil war, after their defeat, all of a sudden they want independence?
ssszar 1 year ago
@ssszar Again,I recommend you to review the state of the art in Catalan politics.Independentism started to grow at the beginning of the 90's,when catalans began to see that Spain did not actually want a federal government,like Switzerland.The latest hostile sign from Spain has been banning a Catalan law that was voted by Catalans (independentists and those who are not).I've never been an independentist before:I've become one.And please,stop using the word "communist":it's old-fashioned.
wmmvb 1 year ago
@wmmvb exactly it started in the 90s thats my point, that this isnt a deep rooted ideal that catalans have had for generations, for centuries catalonia was part of spain, this modern movement is for and was started by spains communists and antifascists.
ssszar 1 year ago
@ssszar The LAST trend started in the 90's,but during Catalonia's history several independentist movements have happened.Catalonia became formally Spain when Barcelona was invaded by the Castillian forces in 1714.From then,Catalan independentism has been feeded by the Spanish trend to impose its language and its idea to extinct any nationalism different than Spanish's.In Switzerland,all languages are official,but Spain has the naughty tradition of imposing its culture.
(continues)
wmmvb 1 year ago
@ssszar The following Spanish document shows what I said (in this case,the policy that was taken in America):
"Que desde luego se pongan en práctica y observen los medios que van expresados y ha propuesto el mencionado muy Rdo. Arzobispo de México, para que de una vez se llegue a conseguir el que se extingan los diferentes idiomas que se usan en los mismos dominios y sólo se hable castellano."
-Real Cédula del 10 de mayo de 1770-
wmmvb 1 year ago
@wmmvb This policy was taken up to Franco's dictatorship, and nowadays Spanish language is obliged to be the ONLY official language in Spain, leaving other languages as "less important" languages. It's just a matter of empathy. Would Spain or France accept to relegate their languages in favor of English (for example) if all states in Europe got unified?
wmmvb 1 year ago
@wmmvb as for spain and france accept to relegate their languages in favor of english you and i know we would not, whats the point of fighting to become an independent nation to only be part of the european union? maybe someday i could support the idea of an independent catalonia, but first these internationalists, will have to support the independence movements of where i am from and of hawaii first, as we have more to grieve about than catalonia does.
ssszar 1 year ago
@ssszar The reason why we want to belong to Europe as an independent nation from Spain,is simple:a culture and a language can only survive if they have a state that supports them.Europe is a union of nations:we want to be one of these nations.Second,I support all independence movements 'cause I think that people cannot belong to other people.I think it's better to have two independent but intercollaborative nations that to have two sticked together nations in conflict in a single country.
wmmvb 1 year ago
@wmmvb but thats just it catalonia is that state already, spain operates on a basis of how the united states is supposed to run but is not, catalan language and culture is in no danger at the moment, the european union is nothing but an internationalist organization, where other nations get to impose their will upon others, what is the point of fighting to be a new nation in the eu only to give that soveringty away.
ssszar 1 year ago
@ssszar We do prefer union rather than separation,but Spain doesn't let us to say we are a nation within Spain.For example,Scotland is a nation and UK regularly allows them to decide whether they want to be independent or not.So far,most part of scottish people seems to not want that.But that's good.That's democracy.We want to be asked whether to be or not independent.And we want to have an identity,which I think is as licit as for a french being a french, or an italian being an italian
wmmvb 1 year ago
@wmmvb catalonia is already in union with , every region of spain has its own identity, and its own culture and every gets along well except certain internationalists in catalonia and andalusia, and a couple terrorists in the basque area. and based of polls and mock elections, most catalonias either dont want independence or are not concered with it, we should not confuse catalonianism with catalonian nationalism.
ssszar 1 year ago
@ssszarOK, you have the last word. However, I'd recommend you to check the link below. The information source is NOT pro-independentist. I said you should update your knowledge:
lavanguardia.es/politica/noticias/20100718/53967434806/el-fallo-del-tc-catapulta-el-respaldo-a-la-independencia-que-roza-el-50.html
Of course, you'll say this article is a mock, written by marxists and north-korean communists. with help of gays and muslims that attempt to make Catalonia independent. ¬_¬
wmmvb 1 year ago
@wmmvb no its not a mock article, the mock elections were those put by communists, oh i cant say that, appearently there are no communists in spain, ok ill call them internationalists, as for the article, it affirms what i have been saying this whole time, that the majority of catalonians dont want full independence or dont care.
ssszar 1 year ago
@ssszar What the article really points out is the increase of independentism. The fact of near the 50% of Catalonians wanting independence whereas in 1975 only around a 7% was independentist is meaningful:from then,people living in Catalonia has noticed how Spanish government doesn't give a damn to what catalans want or think.Even people emigrating from Andalusia to Catalonia have become independentists.Anyway,I'm used to this kind of long and endless discussions.I'm going on vacation.Goodbye!
wmmvb 1 year ago
@ssszar no, catalan independentism exist more or or less since 1836, and only 100 years before, catalonia ws still independent
breizhcatalonia1993 1 year ago
Pero no va a haber un referendum en 2014?
iwonderw 1 year ago
@iwonderw No...De hecho las plataformas independentistas quieren que lo haya, pero toda iniciativa de referendum puede ser bloqueada en el Congreso de los Diputados, y si no, el Tribunal Constitucional se encargaría de hacerlo,como hizo con el Estatuto,aprobado en el Parlament,en el Congreso,y refrendado por el pueblo catalán.A la Constitución le importa poco lo que quiera un pueblo:sólo le importa lo que algunos decidieron en su momento que debería importar.
wmmvb 1 year ago
We're dreaming: watch?v=W35UdPWmeP4
Nous rêvons: watch?v=GdqHzUQKXbE
Soñamos: watch?v=1wdOKR3_F3Q
Sonhamos: watch?v=oXGLTqrUH6M
wmmvb 1 year ago
Going on with this log, today I've watched something funny on the TV. Two of the LESS voted parties in Catalonia (namely, "PP" - a conservative party which is always against everything that let human being to progress -, and "C's" - a some sort of little child of PP) say that people in the demonstration is a minority. Actually, people in the demonstration are voters of the remaining parties!!! You can easily recognize a person from PP or C's: they say they are always in the majority!
wmmvb 1 year ago
By the way, there's a doubtful source that reported only 56000 demonstrators!!! Well, it's plenty of videos in Youtube of this demonstration and everybody with eyes on the face can see that 56000 people is a ridiculous number.
wmmvb 1 year ago
@wmmvb The agency that counted 56000 people has admitted that the count was performed at 20:30, when people went to home!!
Link: publico.es/espana/327249/guerra/cifras/millon/medio/manifestantes
wmmvb 1 year ago
Catalonia has the right of Self-determination !! Kosova and all Albanians are with you !
zandrit 1 year ago
@zandrit Thank you all. Spain actually does not recognize your country 'cause it is not interested in supporting independentisms. But Catalonia is with you!
wmmvb 1 year ago
Fight on Catalonia and don't let a stupid football victory make you lose focus and FIGHT for independence!
CalPolyisinPomona1 1 year ago 2
@CalPolyisinPomona1 Thank you for your support! Football is for the moment, but freedom is forever. We know we live in a democratic Europe and Spain cannot use the force anymore. We must thank USA for giving the world a so great communication channel as Internet is!!!
wmmvb 1 year ago
@CalPolyisinPomona1 Don't worry, we clearly know that football is the only thing spaniards in Catalonia have to "prove" the supposed belong to Spain of this land. And that's also good for us, appart from football they have NOTHING to argue with us.Thanks for the support.
haixix 1 year ago
Spanish Constitutional Court says we're illegal for feeling a nation. And we just don't want to be illegal. Democracy is unstoppable. Let's call a referendum, let's see what Catalans wanna be and give to Europe.
odiossea 1 year ago