Coochie Snorcher, The Vagina Monologues

[ajgirl92]

wooooooww im all for art and stuff but i really just cant seem to get into this...

[joecupofcoffee]

A man would be thrown in prison for years!!! Doesn't matter if the child likes it obviously. I've heard about cases when the child wants to be with the adult man but he still goes to jail. Double standard. THis is coming from a girl too!!

[emlodik]

"Vagina. Let me scream it from a mountain top. I've never felt free enough to say it before. I've refer to it as my u-no-wat, it and, on some occasions, Wilma. If your vagina had a nickname, what would it be?"

[piupinu]

Awesome performance!!!!!!!!

[katespruce]

Outstanding.

[000266617]

I wondered what this was about and I did reading on it: "a 16-year-old girl describes how a 24-year-old woman gets her drunk, forces her to masturbate and then seduces her (in the original version, the girl is 13 years old). According to the law, sex between a 16-year-old and an adult is statutory rape - a form of violence against women. But in this case, the attacker gets a pass from feminists because she is a woman. "

[DianaT17]

She gets a pass because the 16-year old girl desired it to happen and discovered her sexuality, which she had been detached from due to the actual rape and other events that happened to her earlier in life.

[000266617]

It is rape. If a man did this to an underage person, as if happens a lot in the news, and if the boy "desired it to happen" the man would be charged with rape, statutory or whatever. the school teacher was charged with rape no matter how the boy felt about it.

[DianaT17]

I never denied that the law would define the event as rape.

The law writes in absolutes because it can't possibly include rules about every conceivable situation. That's why there are judges. Because life isn't black & white. We live in the gray area.

So yes, going by the law it's rape. But we are listening to the story as told by the girl so why are we even discussing the "gorgeous, 20-year-old woman" & whether what she did was right or wrong? That's completely irrelevant to the girl's story.

[emlodik]

So, if she was talking about a "positive sexual experience" with an older man while she was still sixteen, would think of this monologue the same way? Yeah, right! *eyes*

[DianaT17]

I would. I wouldn't even think about it and only am now because people comment about it.

Because this is NOT about the rapist (male or female). This is about HER.

[WyldFire777]

Wow! Best vagina monologue I've seen so far.

[SerenityArlysis2]

I think you did an AWESOME job, god going girl!

[prairieharpy]

Why is this woman white? And British?

Sorry, but I think reading it, it's obviously supposed to be a black American woman.

[suzywao]

Er, why?

[DianaT17]

You're right, it is. But the director chose to cast against type for many monologues of the production to point out the fact that these are stories told by actors about real people. The purpose of this production was not make-believe as it is with fiction.

[harrietharmman]

The play uses the line "it was a good rape"

I suppose there's nothing wrong with having a play seeking to promote lesbianism but she really needs to go easy on the whole "all men are bastards/rapists" mantra.

No doubt she interviewed countless women but it's abundantly clear that the 90% of interviews where women described anything remotely resembling positive experiences with men were discarded immediately never to be seen again.

[Grayhome]

Actually, there is a monologue in this collection called "Because He Liked to Look at It" about a positive experience with a man.

[harrietharmman]

Well ok i forgot she let one token good experience in there - but how many bad experiences with men are there in the play?

Now compare that to the numeber of:

A: bad experiences with evil nasty men

B: The number of good and bad lesbian experiences.

It's clearly a hugely sexist play and nothing sums up this fact better than the way it condones the rape of a 13 year old girl by a woman.

[harrietharmman]

And I almost forget - even the example you give of a positive experience with a man is still full of sexist lies about how terrible men are.

For example:

"Vaginas are beautiful. Our self-hatred is only the internalised repression and hatred of the patriarchal culture".

yep you got it - everything is a man's fault. Women are always innocent and men are always to blame - that's the message of the play - even in the parts where it is relatively nice to men.

It is hate speech - plain and simple.

[Grayhome]

First, that is not necessarily a lie, and it is not necessarily blaming men. It takes women as well as men to form a culture, even a patriarchal one. And really, blaming men for female oppression is as fair as blaming whites for black oppression. It's not blaming all men, but it is historical fact that men have oppressed women.

[harrietharmman]

Of course it is a lie. If she doesn't like her sex organs then that's her own problem.

Anyway, there could be 100 different reasons for someone not liking their body, but not, of course in this play the only possible reason could be that it is men's fault.

[Grayhome]

It's not blaming men though. It's blaming our patriarchal culture.

And, if you look at the overall message of the play, it's that the abuse of women has to stop, and I'm sorry, but for the most part it is men doing this abuse. Also, there are parts in the play where mothers slap their daughters for having their periods. Not man's fault, but it is the patriarchal culture's fault.

[harrietharmman]

Nonsense. If a woman abuses her daughter it is her own fault. Why blame society or the man on the moon - it is her fault and no one elses.

You do make a good point though - people like Ensler go on about abuse of women and children as if they were the same thing, when in fact more children are abused by women than by men.

The cause of this is the special treatment women get in society and the way many falsely view them as always innocent. Ensler's play merely encourages these harmful myths.

[Grayhome]

While I still see Ensler's play as more about violence against women than about blaming men, I definitely agree that there is this unfair innocence surrounding women. This is unfair to both men and women, because it makes being a woman out to be some kind of a handicap, and it makes men unable to be viewed as vulnerable and innocent. I admit this play does nothing to bridge that gap.

[harrietharmman]

Well at least we agree on something, though I'd have to say the unfair innocence surrounding women is becoming especailly damaging to men now, and many women are in fact increasing reaping rewards from it. This is particularly a problem in the legal and justice system, and in any situation where men and women interact with children.

[Grayhome]

Personally I didn't think this play CONDONES rape. It is merely reporting one woman's story. Remember, the monologues are all based on real interviews. The girl in the story wasn't taken involuntarily. I think that that particular monologue, because it's so controversial, isn't meant to be taken as preachy, but as something you can ask questions about (for example, What constitutes rape? Was the girl in the monologue actually a lesbian or just traumatized by her sexual experience with a man, etc

[harrietharmman]

The vagina monologues is a play which states that the lesbian rape of a child is "a good rape".

So according to feminist extremists the best way to fight abuse and violence against women is to go and see a play which completely endorses the rape of a 13 year old child by a lesbian paedophile?

[DianaT17]

Where does it say that "lesbian rape of a child is a good rape"? It doesn't say that at all.

Not to forget that this is based on a true story told by that women herself. Was she seduced by an adult woman? Yes. Was the "gorgeous secretary" wrong to do it? YES.

But this story is about the girl, and the way she experienced it and people for some reason don't like the fact that it happened to be a positive experience for her!

It's a series of events with no judgment other than the "victim's".

[000266617]

Okay let's have a little boy tell how he was gotten drunk and molested by an older man, and then let's all cheer because it turned out to be "a positive experience" !!!

[HouseOnSunset]

I know! This monologue is pure hypocrisy and double standard.

[DianaT17]

If you think of the world in black & white terms then yes. But when it comes to human beings I dare say there's mostly gray. What's chocolate for one person is poison for another. You're complaining because this persons story doesn't fit into your world view. Clearly this person has another and it's no less valid.

[000266617]

"What's chocolate for one person is poison for another. You're complaining because this persons story doesn't fit into your world view. Clearly this person has another and it's no less valid. "(A child molester gives this speech and then grabs the kid and the kid screams.)

[DianaT17]

I am no child molester and this story is told from the (going with your analogy) kid's perspective, not the woman's. It's the kid's story. It's someone's REAL story! And she's saying that it saved her! Yes, in the eyes of the law etc etc. but this is not a lesson in Law. It's just someone's story. Freedom of speech and all.

[000266617]

I don't belive you are a child molestor. I was just trying to make a point about your way of thinking.

Freedom of speech yes. But in my country, it has limits, as you know.

[HouseOnSunset]

Ah, go watch a Takarazuka video!

[takernotagiver]

the woman was 16 years old at the time, not 13. read the script or listen to the monologue.

[harrietharmman]

No she was 13 in the original version of the play.

Any plays showing her as 16 use a censored script - not the original one.

The script was changed so people couldn't accuse them of promoting lesbian pedophilia any more - in fact they threaten to take legal action against anyone performing the original play!

[Namari12]

I love the voice she does it in, but her arms are so stiffly held at her sides, she should loosen up!

[DianaT17]

Well, loosening up wasn't an option for the kid, which is why I chose to play it this way. You may notice that my body language loosens up as the story progresses. But you are right nevertheless. I couldn't quite make it work at the time. I need to go further with it. That way it wouldn't have looked so unconscious and awkward. Thanks for your feedback! :)

[kokasia2008]

I wish my unethical slavation was nearly as provocative as this true story =D

[mediabruja]

i have to do this one on 3-20 & i hope i can deliver it like this woman- she's very good! this monologue is difficult but it's somebodies real story. the whole purpose of tvm is to raise awareness of violence against women. peace!

[OzDelphi]

"this monologue is difficult but it's somebodies real story." (mediabruja)

In the original Eve Ensler script, the coochie snorcher was 13 years old. So, if this is "somebodies real story" as you say, then it is the story of an adult woman plying a minor with alchohol, then sexually abusing her. Let's not forget the line in the script; "if it was rape, it was a good rape"!

[mediabruja]

bad things happen to people(adults & children)every second of everyday all around the world. nobody is saying that the sexual interaction between the adult & child is appropriate- it's simply someone's story!!!

[Maliciosa69]

this is so nicely and awesomely done!! Im in the Vagina Monologue of UConn.. and i always loved this part

[hauntofdresden]

I'm doing this one in my production- it's divided between me and two other women- I'm doing 5 years and 7 years.

[DianaT17]

I still totally love this monologue so take it in and enjoy! A great acting experience!

[theone42007]

This is beautifully done.

[pershnickety]

AHHH this is weird!! and the rape part is sooo wrong!!!

[islandmamma]

she is raped twice! A 16 yr old with a 24 yr old is rape.

[DianaT17]

It might have been illegal and unethical but it's hardly rape if she wanted it.

[islandmamma]

Yes but were it a male and her it would be rape under the law and in most eyes right? Juust sayin'.

[luqmana]

Originally it was 13 yrs old. They changed it after getting critisism.