Washington DC Tea Party (9/12/09)

[TheRationalBeing]

Sure, but what I am saying is that the people in government positions are the same people who are running big industry. Many of them have vested financial interests in the private sector. Dick Cheney served under Bush Sr. then went to Halliburton in '95, which he left in 2000 to run with Bush. Is it any wonder Halliburton received the contracts in Iraq through a no bid process?

[TheRationalBeing]

So my research is unbiased as it gets. Here are some figures spent on lobbying congress this year.

Pharmaceutical and Health products industry: $123.98 mil

Electric Utilities: $118.5 mil

Health Insurance industry: $85.6 mil

Oil and Gas: $74.8

Those are the top 4. Revolving doors and lobbyists are destroying our democracy. No longer do the people have control, but the ones who have the wealth and political power are united. Unfortunately, there is nothing you or I can do about it.

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing

I think you miss my point. WHY are the lobbyists spending that kind of money??

[TheRationalBeing]

@ToddAldrich 1. Lobbyist spend that kind of money to make sure the interests of the industry they represent are met above those of the people. (Prescription drug laws are a perfect example). 2. Industry seeks to decrease competition, not increase it, and the best way to do this is to get someone into a government position that has a vested financial interest in the industry you are supporting. It is no secret that most politicians in Washington have sat on the boards of major institutions.

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing IF government did not have the ability to affect prescription drug prices, would there be any lobbying taking place. After all, where in the Constitution are politicians given this power?If government COULD NOT decrease the competition, would any lobbying take place??? There is no Constitutional authority for government to favor on competitor over another.

I think you get my point.Our government is doing things it HAS NO authority to do, and THAT is the source of the problem.

[TheRationalBeing]

@ToddAldrich Donald Rumsfeld worked for Gilead, the company responsible for the bird flu vaccine. He had millions in stocks with the company. Bush pushed for emergency funding for the bird flu epidemic to the tune of $7.1b. Rumsfeld's stock worth increased from $15-$25m.

You seem to think that there is no one in government who worked for the private sector before attaining office, and will again after leaving. There is a direct connection to people using office to reward their companies.

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing Why was the Federal government funding bird flu vaccines??

[TheRationalBeing]

@ToddAldrich How do you fix it? Do you have a solution? You want government to stay out of business, but how do you keep business out of government? Like I said, both politicians and big industry are riding in the same boat. They both benefit from each other while the tax payer is forgotten. We the people don't have a voice in this country, only the wealthy have influence on politics, and the politicians in Washington ARE the wealthy. Corruption of the free market, the fall of capitalism

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing The solution is to FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION.

[TheRationalBeing]

@ToddAldrich Don't ask me why they were funding bird flu. Its the same old shit, looking out for each other, government spends tax payer money and the politicians and BIG BUSINESS walk out the door with fatter wallets. That's unregulated capitalism for ya.

As far as getting those in power, government and big industry, to follow the constitution, GOOD LUCK. That's an idealistic dream. The only thing that can change the path we are on is a violent revolution, and that isn't happening soon.

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing They SHOULDN'T be funding Bird Flu vaccines. PERIOD.

I think the TEA Party is doing a VERY good job of shaking up the Republican party PRECISELY because they ARE insisting on a return to our COnstitution. We have already kicked out MANY powerful incumbant and establishment Republicans - and those people the Tea Party endorsed are likely to win in the general elections also.

They are our best hope of getting rid of the corruption and the destruction of the Constitution

[TheRationalBeing]

@ToddAldrich I already knew your answer, that's why I said don't ask me :)

Yep, the Tea Party is shaking things up, and to say one thing, they can be corrupted just like the next man, so I'm not putting my faith into them either. All we will have for the next four years, if the Tea Party wins some seats, is a lot more blocking and nothing getting done. Pretty much the same thing we have dealt with for the last 2 years. Nothing will change.

[TheRationalBeing]

@ToddAldrich 3. Pay to play politics goes to the highest bidder. It reduces the need for contract bidding by providing a back room deal to whatever company has donated the most to the candidates.

You are right, the government has played a huge roll in our countries problems, but at the same time, they have fallen for the old cliche "money talks", which is an unfortunate human element in the equation. So the question is, how do we erase this element when it is stoutly entrenched in politics

[TheRationalBeing]

Don't like my straw man? You didn't deny it either. Another point you made was Reagan's tax cuts. Sure they helped, he had an unemployment rate of 10.6% his second year in office, job creation was necessary for the corporation to continue breathing. Fast forward 30 years and you see that the tax cuts that have been in effect over the last 10 years have created very little jobs, and I mean that in numbers of, and amount of pay. 

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing You display an astounding ignorance of economics. Go look up the words "ceteris paribus" which is an economic maxim you learn your very first year.

There have been other factors - ESPECIALLY the last 4 years that have dragged down the job creation of the Bush tax cuts.

If you look at the immediate effects of the REAL tax cut that Bush put in place - there were over 6 million jobs created. Only after rising oil prices counteracted those cuts did we begin losing jobs.

[TheRationalBeing]

@ToddAldrich Once again, first thing out of your mouth is another insult. Not surprising coming from a conservative who wants to tout knowledge, but has no solution to the problems in this country other than giving breaks to those who have caused them.

Maybe other factors have been in place to drive down job creation, Those can probably explain record profits shown by the major industries in the US. Record profits>less workers. LOL, of couse not, that doesn't fit into any of your models

[lamarlow]

Funny how people shout "we the people" until everything starts going wrong, then it turns into "you the politicians"

America, you are a democracy for the people BY the people. If there are problems then it's no ones fault but your own. Please show some integrity and take responsibility for the actions of the leaders YOU have elected for the last 30 years. Until you can do that, you won't be changing anything.

[Kyle17880000]

@lamarlow i full-heartily second this.

[lubime10]

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."

[zoarmonkey]

Dumb Nazi-Esque Anti-Americans = Tea baggers

[ToddAldrich]

@zoarmonkey  The Tea Party is the OPPOSITE of the Nazi's moron.

[star1876]

yes!! the tea party folks have finally exposed the central idiocy that makes up the republican party. thanks to these guys every moderate voter I know will be supporting obama in the next election

[MrLeeAnonymous]

@star1876

Do I think Obama is the best president ever? No. Do I think he's better than ANY candidate the right can come up with? No doubt.

[StupidMouth7]

Nice Ass from 1.10 to 1.19

[Shystichu]

That ass was gross...

[TheShadyPenguin]

Being a Democrat doesn't make you an asshole, but if you're an asshole your probably a Democrat. ;)

[MrLeeAnonymous]

@TheShadyPenguin

What would that make you? It's you're btw, not your ;)

[ilovebaconsandwiches]

Obama won the election! His policies are going to help our economy and restore our constitution that the retarded cowboy wiped his ass with for 8 years.

Eat shit rednecks!

[TheShadyPenguin]

hmmm...

[pig5689]

Don't these ignorant dummies have jobs? Don't they realize insurance company executives are shooting off in their pants watching this shameful debacle? They need to wake up & realize the insurance execs are jacking off on piles of stolen cash from the innocent, hard-working families they've bankrupt. What is this sickness that has overcome the GOP, forcing them to trash our country & commit unpardonable treason? If I see an insurance executive I'll spit in their face for creating this debacle.

[stevesprinceofsteaks]

This was on a Sat you stupid fuck. They work all week and have Sat free. People like you sit on your ass all week and then go stand in line for free GOV cheese on SAT. You are going to spit in anyone's face. Except maybe your boyfriend at the bus station. Cocksucker! lol

[pmango1000]

pig: LOL...typical weak minded simpleton view on healthcare: blame the ins companies!

Wow...healthcare costs according to the libs has "nothing" to do with:

lifestyle of Americans

Illegal Immigrants using our ER's

abusing insurance

lawsuits

medicare increases cost

medicaid increases costs

[ToddAldrich]

@pig5689

The only Debacle is how you lefties LIED about both the scope of the problem and the bill. You demonized ANOTHER industry (Gee I wonder why our jobs keep leaving us??) and lied about EVERYTHING associated with this issue.

[MrLeeAnonymous]

@ToddAldrich

You're blaming outsourcing on the left? LOL @ you

[ToddAldrich]

@MrLeeAnonymous Absolutely.  Who is making it more expensive to do business HERE???

Liberals.

By making it more expensive to do business here, you increase the incentive for taking that work overseas.

ANd that is EXACTLY what is happening.

[TheRationalBeing]

@ToddAldrich By the sound of it, you think its ok for businesses to force American workers to compete with developing nations.

The US is the number 1 consumer economy in the world. Every company wants to sell their products here. So what is wrong with them paying tax. The American public is in demand, yet you want to give money away to business. Tell you what, show me job creation, and then you can have your tax cut. Send jobs overseas, pay the same tax as others to get in into the US.

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing

How about you living up to your moniker?? How about you simply start looking at FACTS?

Also, How about you start dealing with what I actually said instead of some strawman creation that you simply made up??

As to Job creation??

Jan 1981 - total jobs in the U.S. = 107,391,000 Reagan then passed a package of tax cuts and until the 2001Clinton recession brought on by his tax & regulation increases, we had UNINTERUPTED job growth with the exception of the gulf war lull

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing The total job creation during that time was nearly 46 million jobs - due almost entirely to the tax cuts under Reagan and the NAFTA agreement ( for which Clinton gets a large amount of credit along with the Republicans) If you look at where the jobs created during that time, a VERY high percentage were created as a direct result of investments made in the wake of the Reagan tax cuts.

[TheRationalBeing]

@ToddAldrich We have enjoyed economic growth for the last 30 years, yet more people live in poverty than at any time since the great depression. Wages for the worker have stagnated, while CEO pay is at an all time high. We just gave these corporations close to a trillion dollars, tax payer money, and they hold the system hostage by not creating jobs and paying themselves bonuses for failure. Do you call it progress when corporations have your politicians in their pockets?

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing We have more PEOPLE than at any time since the great depression and the major component of those in poverty fall into a few specific categories - recent immigrants which ALWAYS (as a group) start out in poverty - people who have committed crimes or are on drugs - or single parents. ALL of which have increased over the last decade or so also.

You are also wrong on the stagnation of wages. Since Reagan's tax cuts, employee compensation has more than doubled.

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing As for the corporations getting tax money? I am with you.

But then WHY have we given government the power to do such a thing?? It is the LIBERAL interpretation of our Constitution that has allowed such things.

If we simply elect candidates that actually will uphold the original intent of our Constitution, we would eliminate about 95% of the problems we have today.

[TheRationalBeing]

@ToddAldrich Insurance companies, record profits>insuring less people. Of course that is wrong too. How silly of me.

Lets see, the Bush tax cuts, hmmm. I know, lets give tax cuts, and start a war in Iraq. That's good thinking, then we can borrow the money from China and the Saudis. So what if we are in debt. To work in Iraq, I say we get don't allow people to bid on contracts, oh no, we must insure Halliburton gets those. Less money going into the government, more tax money going out.

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing If you are trying to get me to support Bush's borrowing of money and his reckless spending, you are talking to the wrong person - but the tax cuts were NOT the problem. Revenues INCREASED - and dramatically so. The tax cuts REVERSED the DECLINING tax revenue trend that Bush inherited.

[TheRationalBeing]

@ToddAldrich That doesn't even mention the total income of the US dropping by $2.7 trillion, which is even less taxes coming in. If you haven't checked recently, wages are stagnant, actually, average working wage has DROPPED 5.7% since 2000. Clinton left office, unemployment was at 3.9%. As much as you blame liberals, the previous administration wiped their asses with the constitution. There is not one person who will not succumb to the money thrown at them when they become a politician.

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing You are flat out lying - AND cherry picking dates. In addition you are using wages instead of compensation - which is in itself a disingenuous attempt to paint things as worse than they are.

Again, I will say, If you limit government to it's Constitutional role - AS ENVISIONED by our founding fathers, you would eliminate nearly all of our problems.

Questions on Corruption and WHY corporations buy politicians??? ANSWER: Because politicians can use power to play favorites.

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing It all comes down to our federal government having the power to do things that were SUPPOSED to be forbidden to it. If Government did not have the power to grant favors, there would be no incentive for corporations to buy politicians - BUT, the LIBERAL interpretation of the COnstitution actually encourages such things.

That is why we need to return to the ORIGINAL intent and the limitations on government that is outlined in our Constitution and the bill of rights.

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing You also are LYING about the unemployment rate. Unemployment was 3.8% in April of 2000 - and was trending upward when Bush took office - it was the result of the Dot com bubble bursting that happened earlier in 2000 - BUSH INHERITED the rising unemployment rate AND the recession that caused it.

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing You also are LYING about the unemployment rate. Unemployment was 3.8% in April of 2000 - and was trending upward when Bush took office - it was the result of the Dot com bubble bursting that happened earlier in 2000 - BUSH INHERITED the rising unemployment rate AND the recession that caused it. It had risen to over 5% before Bush’s first budget.

[TheRationalBeing]

@ToddAldrich All I can say is go to the US Department of Labor website. They have the unemployment rates listed by month, from 1940 to Sept. 2010. I know what I said IS the TRUTH because I do my own research. Nice try. Also, if I state numbers, chalk them up as correct. I don't need to cherry pick and make shit up when the truth is at my finger tips. Before you judge my research, understand, I don't care about any politician or economic system, both can be corrupted.

[TheRationalBeing]

@ToddAldrich I think we are both arguing the same point, but our differences are that I see big industry and government together as creating the problem, whereas you only blame the government. No matter. I believe in the constitution, but I also realize that it was written during a time when the US was 1% the size it is today. When people can go to a dead soldiers funeral and scream horrid things at the family, it is allowed because of the first amendment. I think allowing this is wrong.

[ToddAldrich]

@TheRationalBeing AH - you are kind of close here, but It IS the government's fault - they created the conditions that allow/encourage and sometimes force such things.

I also believe that the screaming of things at our fallen soldiers is wrong. I don't believe that it does fall under the first amendment . Much like screaming fire in a theater isn't allowed, neither is this. I think the courts will interpret this properly - at least I hope so.

[TheRationalBeing]

@ToddAldrich The problem of government having the power is a result of decades of American ignorance and laziness. This is no new phenomena that has recently began with Obama. Politicians and big business are together for the ride, and unless you are with them, you will be left out of the decision process. Until lobbyists are out of Washington, and politicians are not corrupted with big industry money, we will NEVER have change. opensecretsdotorg

[j0e2]

these are the same people who voted for hitler in germany. some people are just crazy and it seems like the republican party has been taken over by every lunatic in the US. even just reading the comments on this page it's clear these people are totally insane. they just repeat the lies they heard on fox even when a little child could tell they aren't true. they have given up any attempt at being a rational person and just let their animal instincts take over: fear and anger at everything. sad.

[ednorandrewrowe]

Visited 3 tea-party-sponsored events. I've had a change of heart since I fought Reagan, going to Central Park in early 80's on "nuclear weapons freeze campaign." THESE people more well behaved, representatie of pop. than WE...Stakes huge: Loss of light of liberty in world, U.S.A.! Some history: Hitler: Project T-4; (WWI wounded and retarded, old, killed secretly in hospitals 'til public rebels; Obama: Reinstates DEATH BOOK for vets; Hitler: Takes over private industry, designs VW Beetle, etc.

[j0e2]

you're so stupid there aren't even words to describe it. every single thing you say is false. for example, the "death book" for vets was written and published during the BUSH administration, and all it did is provide end of life counseling, which has been a part of health care for about 50 years. and hitler didn't design the VW beetle, ferdinand porsche did. my GOD you people are morons.

[ToddAldrich]

@j0e2

YOu don't have a clue what the death panels are. NO ONE seriously said it was a group of people giving the thumbs up or down on people. It is simply the idea that an actuarial table will determine whether or not your life is worth it - with no room for deviation. Or as Obama put it, maybe your grandma should just "take a pill" to deal with the pain - but let her die.

[MrLeeAnonymous]

@ToddAldrich

"death panels" existed in this country long before Obama. They're called insurance companies.

[MrLeeAnonymous]

@j0e2

You get a thumbs up.

[ToddAldrich]

@j0e2 Turns out it was YOUR side that was lying. FOX had it right. Obama and you liberals LIED.

[justjim4]

The problem here is we are all tired of having govnmt stuff bills down our throat's that are 1000+ pages of crap that our elected rep's won't even read....i.e. "$7.4 Trillion in Corporate welfare" or the "Single payer Govnmt Health Care". They are all probably good guys and galls @ heart, but they are a poor example of good govnmt in the USA. I say we start from scratch.

[YarrowElfwind]

this isn't just upsetting over because obama is in office, this distaste and upsetting is decades in the making...and those ppl calling it teabagging and insulting ppl for using the constitution, you basicly saying....you don't like the constitution, that you dont like freedom and our bill of rights....you have nothing to say besides insults and name calling and that is what why the lib agenda is crashing and burning.double standards only last for so long before the majority raises up in protest

[artgice]

for the people who want gov ran health care I say u sighn up for it and leave the rest of alone but even the person who wants this health care wont say he will be on it and that goes for all of your precious democrate party. that is because they all know it is going to suck!!!!!!!

[john51880]

Thank you protesters!

[resteep]

The real enemy is the World Bank and the IMF. They are the institutions that benefit from the US going bankrupt.

All this 'tea party' stuff does is divide the nation so we are less united against the One World Government Obama and Bush both want.

[PH1ASCO]

intelligent people don't protest something they have absolutely no clue what it is... if these teabaggers had any kind of intelligence they would read the health care reform bills and do some research of their own to find out what is really going on instead of jumping on this bandwagon whose only purpose is to stop any kind of positive reform in government just because it's spearheaded by a black democrat... bunch of moronic ignorant bigots is what they are..

[MaxSplinters]

The thing is PH1ASCO....we did read it....See ya in 2010 Libtard.....

[andromedastar1]

If you had been there PH1asco, you would have seen there was not one word about color. Why do the liberals always play the race card?? Unless it is Clarence Thomas or Michael Steele. What we need now is competition and choice, tort reform, and to provide health care for the 12 million Americans that are uninsured.

[rhth79]

"instead of jumping on this bandwagon whose only purpose is to stop any kind of positive reform in government just because it's spearheaded by a black democrat... bunch of moronic ignorant bigots is what they are.."

So they're all against the reforms because Obama is a black democrat??? Are you serious?

[PH1ASCO]

you three can't seriously be that naive...

MaxSplinters: please quote from the bill ANYTHING that supports what these morons are protesting...

Being a Republican doesn't make you racist, but if you're racist you're probably a Republican ;)

[pmango1000]

ph1asco: ok so why is every race-based piece of legislation Democrat-sponsored??? Basing a law on race and giving special rights to people because of their race IS racist...even MLK would have been against race-based laws:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. " - MLK

[m530bc]

This smells fishy!!! Where were the Tea Parties 2001 - 2008 when Bush was giving $7.4 Trillion in Corporate welfare?? Where were the Tea Parties when Bush/ Cheany were Handing $2.7 Trillion to Kbr/halliburton for defective equiptment for our troops.

Now you talking succession? So America is not good enough for you. Go to the ICE website get form N455 and move to Iran, they have a religious gov that thinks like you bigots.

[Libertarian71776]

the republicans showed their dissatisfaction in the midterms and the 2008 elections. look up the stats on how many republicans and independents voted democrat and some even decided to sit this election out. they protested thru votes.Obama sounded like a fiscal conservative during the primaries screaming change. well now you got your damn change.

[nana0839]

"morons". No these are the intelligent, educated , hard working people that know what our country is all about and why it was founded. That is why they are taking it back. AND MAKE NO MISTAKE WE WILL People like this have always won since we fought the British in the beginning and Hitler in WW II The rest of you either join us or keep on drinking the red kool-aid.

[MrLeeAnonymous]

@nana0839

LOL 

[393cj]

thank you by the way

[393cj]

wow theres more than the million man myth march and all the news covered it

[beatnikjd]

What a bunch of morons! Looks like a 'dick army' to me.