@USAFreedomReform "So you are telling me, that if a person goes down to a pond that has millions of bacteria in it, and be baptised by a minister of GOD, that that dirty pond water will CLEANSE them of all their sins?. "
If that person is truthfully believing and the baptism is done in the Name of The Father, The Son And The Holy Ghost, then YES that person will recieve forgiveness of their sins.
" Repent And be Baptized FOR the Remission of your Sins"
@USAFreedomReform"Thats right, "PETER SAW". Again ,are you going to take what Peter said OVER what Jesus Christ said? Do you put more FAITH in what the disciples said and less in what Jesus said?"
This is NOT a matter of Peters opinion versus that of Jesus, It IS a matter of both Peter and Pauls Eye Witness Testimony that people were NOT recieving the Holy Spirit the way you'd like top imagine that it occurs .Are you now calling them both liars in order to hold up your false theology ?
@USAFreedomReform . You still are of the belief that baptism is just a mere ritual , and that its all about people SEEING this ritual. I absolutely reject that it is Only Seeing baptism. No, it is about having faith that the baptism does what God says it will. The sacrament of baptism gives remmision of sins and that is no mere ritual.
@Bobsblues "it is about having faith that the baptism does what God says it will"
Where EXACTLY did GOD EVER say THIS?
"The sacrament of baptism gives remmision of sins and that is no mere ritual"
So you are telling me, that if a person goes down to a pond that has millions of bacteria in it, and be baptised by a minister of GOD, that that dirty pond water will CLEANSE them of all their sins? What happens to the sins that committed after after they are baptised?
@USAFreedomReform "Certainly,one who believes salvation can be achieved without water has more faith,by the simple reason that they do not see(by water)but still believe they have been saved. And as much as the one who has to have water baptism to be saved(by seeing)."
I'll even take my previous comment one step further - what I believe you have is a type of faith that believes you can do things your way rather than Gods way. Is willfull disobedience saving faith ?
@USAFreedomReform "Certainly,one who believes salvation can be achieved without water has more faith,by the simple reason that they do not see(by water)but still believe they have been saved. And as much as the one who has to have water baptism to be saved(by seeing)."
What you actually believe is that salvation can be achieved by belief alone without compliance to what to what you are commanded to do. Peter saw that belief alone was insufficient for the people in Acts 8
@Bobsblues "Peter saw that belief alone was insufficient for the people in Acts 8"
Thats right, "PETER SAW". Again ,are you going to take what Peter said OVER what Jesus Christ said? Do you put more FAITH in what the disciples said and less in what Jesus said?
If you do this , you are still putting things before YOUR GOD !! The same GOD that said, "You shall have no other gods before me". Get it ??
@Bobsblues "For the rest who Can comply and refuse , what do you think that makes them ? Faithfull ?"
Certainly,one who believes salvation can be achieved without water has more faith,by the simple reason that they do not see(by water)but still believe they have been saved. And as much as the one who has to have water baptism to be saved(by seeing).
@USAFreedomReform "Actually that was between the eunuch and JESUS CHRIST. Philip asked him prior to WATER baptism, DO YOU BELIEVE WITH ALL YOUR HEART THEN YOU MAY !! Then the eunuch said: "I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD?"So what saved him the water or his belief?"
He WAS WATER baptized , and THAT disproves your theory of water baptism being done away with by Spirit baptism. Of course he had to believe , or Philip wouldnt have given him the baptism.
Acts 8 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain WATER: and the eunuch said, See, here is WATER; what doth hinder me to be BAPTIZED ? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the WATER, both Philip and the eunuch; and he BAPTIZED him.
Still what do you do say about availibility of WATER, and the need to be saved but can not be emersed?
DID YOU ADDRESS THOSE QUESTIONS I ASKED? (yes) or (no)
Actually that was between the eunuch and JESUS CHRIST. Philip asked him prior to WATER baptism, DO YOU BELIEVE WITH ALL YOUR HEART THEN YOU MAY !! Then the eunuch said: "I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD?"
@USAFreedomReform "If people think water will save them, that the same as putting a physical god(water) before GOD! "
God instituted water baptism and it did not end just because you believe so. Obeying what God instituted, Jesus commanded and the Apostles also commanded is NOT putting anything before God. YOUR instructing people to reject this is YOU putting YOUR idealogy before the word of God.
@USAFreedomReform- "Water baptism ended with John the Baptist when he said "one greater comes that will baptise with the HOLY GHOST and FIRE" The reason it eneded was because John was to: Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, **Prepare ye the way of the Lord,make his paths straight.** "
How can you keep spewing that this means water baptism ended when you have proof in Acts 8 that WATER BAPTISM DID NOT END.
@USAFreedomReform- Dont play games with the bible trying to twist the phrase" they were baptized " , into your bs that this means they were Spirit baptized and not water baptized.
"I never said WATER wasn't used to save the eunuch.Philip did as the Spirit of God was telling him to do,and afterward the eunuch didn't see Philip because he was taken away by the Spirit of GOD to another town."
YOUR PREVIOUS QUOTE -
"Water baptism ended with John the Baptist when he said "one greater comes that will baptise with the HOLY GHOST and FIRE". "
Acts 8 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain WATER: and the eunuch said, See, here is WATER; what doth hinder me to be BAPTIZED ? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the WATER, both Philip and the eunuch; and he BAPTIZED him.
I never said WATER wasn't used to save the eunuch.Philip did as the Spirit of God was telling him to do,and afterward the eunuch didn't see Philip because he was taken away by the Spirit of GOD to another town.
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
And the washed their stripes and were baptized in the night.
@USAFreedomReform - Are you trying to justify that its ok for you to make up whatever lie you wish ? I ask God for forgiveness of what I do wrong, do you ? It appears not, it really appears that you believe its ok to try to use whatever untruth it takes in order to shore up your false doctrine. And when someone shows that you are lying, what do you do > you turn right around and call that person a liar for having done so.
@Bobsblues "Are you trying to justify that its ok for you to make up whatever lie you wish ? I ask God for forgiveness of what I do wrong, do you ? It appears not"
Judge not , lest ye be judged by the SAME judgement.
@USAFreedomReform - The bible tells us that we all sin and if we say we dont then we are liars. And what are we to do about this ? Repent and ask God for forgiveness.
Do you ever admit your lies, feel guilt over them, ask God for forgiveness ?
"Water baptism ended with John the Baptist when he said "one greater comes that will baptise with the HOLY GHOST and FIRE". "
MY REPLY -
"Thats a baldfaced lie and if you continue doing that you are showing proof that you do NOT have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you. I know that you are certainly aware that the Apostles continued doing water baptism, yet you put forth this BS because your position is more important to you than the truth."
@Bobsblues "Water baptism ended with John the Baptist when he said "one greater comes that will baptise with the HOLY GHOST and FIRE"
The reason it eneded was because John was to:
Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, **Prepare ye the way of the Lord,make his paths straight.**
@USAFreedomReform - " I was not lying about the HOLY SPIRIT over WATER baptism, and if you feel like I am twisting things to make it appear that you are lying.
Well, there you just did it once again, you really have a problem telling the truth. I said you were lying when you stated that water baptism ended with John the Baptist. I proved it with the Eunuch recieving water baptism in Acts 8.
I have shown you to be a purposfull liar , one who does it whenever it is convenient to twist the truth into whatever you wish it to be.It is bad enough to lie but you use your lies with the intent of decieving others concerning what is written in the bible.
@Bobsblues "It is bad enough to lie but you use your lies with the intent of decieving others concerning what is written in the bible"
Here is the most important thing of all when it comes to being saved.
Read it in St.Mark 9: 38-41. (THE REBUKE OF SECTARIANISM) Unless we all come together as believers in Jesus Christ,the world will continue to take its blows on us.
I say we as the entire body need to bring the lost to Jesus Christ instead of making an issue over WATER !!!
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
@Bobsblues John 8:44 Thats one thing I like about the book of John, he put the writing on the LINE and didn't mince words to get the point across. Bless St.John for his contribution to GODS HOLY WORD. I was not lying about the HOLY SPIRIT over WATER baptism, and if you feel like I am twisting things to make it appear that you are lying, THEN MAYBE YOU BETTER RECONSIDER WHAT YOU BELIEVE.
@USAFreedomReform. - "I do not lie though, and if you feel like I am twisting things to make it appear that you are lying...'
You not only twist things to make it appear like im lying, you outright reject , deny and oppose whatever part of the bible refutes your bs theology. You stated that water baptism ended with John the Baptist and I proved that wrong with the Eunuch being baptized in Water in Acts 8 and then you turn around and call Me a liar for doing so.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
@ USAFreedomReform - You were caught in the lie claiming water baptism ended with John the Baptist and now you try to twist that around and call me the liar. Well then you just lied once again. John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
@USAFreedomReform "That was really a meaningful event. Do you think GOD gave the disciples supercharged bodily abilities to handle all that "dunk and rise" in the WATER?
You could be right, but those disciples were really tired afterward."
The Apostles didnt also have to dunk and rise , they only had to have the others do that.
As for there ability to carry that out,remember that it was 12 apostles that distributed the bread and fish to 5000 people.Jesus multiplied it, they distributed it
@USAFreedomReform "If the woman with the issue of blood did it with FAITH, what is to keep modern man from FAITHFULLY calling on the name of JESUS CHRIST to be SAVED? "
It takes Faith to have the baptism . It takes Faith to believe enough that we must do this because we were told that this is the way God wants to dispence forgiveness to mankind.
It took Faith to build an ark but God still used water, it took Faith to go to the pool to be healed but God used water and baptism requires faith
@Bobsblues "It took Faith to build an ark but God still used water, it took Faith to go to the pool to be healed but God used water and baptism requires faith"
Ok so you have faith that you are saved thru water baptism and I have faith that I am baptised by the HOLY GHOST " IN " the name of Jesus Christ.
SO WE ARE BOTH SAVED BY DIFFERENT MODES OF FAITH !!
@USAFreedomReform you said - "Dr. Jimmy Allen said at about :32 No One had to be ......"
Hmmm, now THAT just made you a hypocrite and guilty of exactly what you accused me of when I quoted the early church writers, and you asked me if I follow men or the bible !
@Bobsblues "THAT just made you a hypocrite and guilty of exactly what you accused me of when I quoted the early church writers, and you asked me if I follow men or the bible"
OK , that made no sense. Catch me up to what you are refering to.
I think you misunderstood what I meant by what I said Dr. J. Allen was saying.
Oh YES !!! Acts 19 just completely trashes your concept of Just believe and the Holy Spirit then comes and baptizes you. Did those people have to DO Something in order to recieve the Holy Spirit ? Why , yes they did ! and apparently neither Peter nor Paul viewed that doing THAT was a work .
@USAFreedomReform I said- "Are you ready to concede that Acts 2.38 was water baptism for the remission of sins" - your reply -
" THIS WOULD BE LIKE GIVING IN TO SATAN !! "
You've already done that when you reject what is written in the bible because it doesnt fit your idealogy. You have made up your own false religion in order to have one that fits the way you'd like it to be.
@USAFreedomReform "How did they manage to baptize 3000 in less that a day? I know how, it was baptism "IN" the NAME of the FATHER,SON,and HOLY GHOST."
I explained to you yesterday exactly how that could very easily have been done.
"Dr. Jimmy Allen said at about :32 No One had to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins until after the Great Commission went into force. I wonder what John the Baptist was doing out there in the wilderness of Judaea before Jesus was crucified then."
Dr Allen DID NOT say that NO ONE had to be baptised for the remission of sins prior to Jesus death, no he said that it wasnt in Jesus name. THAT is exactly what continues to trip you up.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the WATER, both Philip and the eunuch; and he BAPTIZED him.
39 And when they were come up out of the WATER, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
"Water baptism ended with John the Baptist when he said "one greater comes that will baptise with the HOLY GHOST and FIRE". "
Thats a baldfaced lie and if you continue doing that you are showing proof that you do NOT have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you. I know that you are certainly aware that the Apostles continued doing water baptism, yet you put forth this BS because your position is more important to you than the truth.
@Bobsblues "Thats a Bobsblues lie and if you continue doing that you are showing proof that you do NOT have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you"
Thats more like it !!
So was the eunuch saved before he went into the water to be BAPTIZED. He didn't see his administrator of the baptism after he came up because the Spirit of GOD put Phillip in another town.
In Acts 2.38 the Apostle Peter commanded them to be baptized for the remission of sins, this is the same baptism as in Mark1:4-5 But it is now in the Name of Jesus. This IS Water baptism done in the name of Jesus.
Mark 1:4-5
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
@Bobsblues "John baptism was water baptism , it was for the remission of sins, instituted by God"
I know,I missed a word there , "WATER" and it changed the whole meaning I was trying to ask in that question , SORRY !!
*What I meant to ask was I wonder what the was said before,during,after the baptism in WATER that was performed when John the Baptist,baptized people unto the remission of sin?*
example:Did he say in the name of Jesus Christ you are baptised (as he was dunking them)?
Dr. Jimmy Allen said at about :32 No One had to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins until after the Great Commission went into force.
I wonder what John the Baptist was doing out there in the wilderness of Judaea before Jesus was crucified then. Also,apparently Jesus had to be baptized in order to receive the Spirit of GOD at the hands of John the Baptist although Jesus bore no sin to be washed away.
@USAFreedomReform- Are you ready to concede that Acts 2.38 was water baptism for the remission of sins and that it was God who instituted water baptism for remission of sins by John the Baptist ?
@USAFreedomReform "When I asked the question(since I am in the USA)I was setting a scene of the 1800's in the rural areas of the USA where they had to baptise in streams(creeks and rivers)like John the Baptist did in the Jordan."
People had wooden troughs that held water to use for bathing, this is certainly sufficient to dunk a person for baptism. If the water freezes or you have snow, then you put it over the fire in buckets and melt it and then fill your bathing trough.
@Bobsblues "People had wooden troughs that held water to use for bathing"
Would that work in a "MUD HOLE" full of water too??
Alright what about those today that seek to be saved after an accident where they can't be emersed in water for whatever reason.Lets say they want to be saved and call on the name of JESUS CHRIST to save them.
Lets say they have to have a sponge bath when the are bathed.
Will that person go to HELL for not being emersed?
@USAFreedomReform - "how was it possible for about 3000 to be baptized by 12 in the same day"?"
You take them to a stream , a river, lake, pond etc. 3000 people with 12 apostles baptizing would break down to 250 people for each apostle. If they did this for even just 6 hours it would only be aprox 42 people per hour for each apostle. You put a dozen or more in at a time and you've got 20 minutes for each group.
@Bobsblues "If they did this for even just 6 hours it would only be aprox 42 people per hour for each apostle"
That was really a meaningful event. Do you think GOD gave the disciples supercharged bodily abilities to handle all that "dunk and rise" in the WATER?
You could be right, but those disciples were really tired afterward.
All the woman did that had the issue of blood was touch the hem of Jesus' garment to be made whole by her FAITH.
If the woman with the issue of blood did it with FAITH, what is to keep modern man from FAITHFULLY calling on the name of JESUS CHRIST to be SAVED?
Look at all the healings and raised dead that Jesus did and you will see that the FAITH of the people being healed was what Jesus said healed them. Look at those raised from the dead and you will see the People who wanted them raised from the DEAD were the ones with the FAITH that raised.
@USAFreedomReform " Now how was this accomplished 200 years ago in the winter months when people went to church and were under the conviction of the HOLY SPIRIT. "
I'll ask you again what difference winter makes in this ? Ever look at the record books in any of the churches in northern Europe and you will see that winter didnt stop people from being baptized.
@Bobsblues "Ever look at the record books in any of the churches in northern Europe and you will see that winter didnt stop people from being baptized"
I have never been to northern Europe to see any church record books. Fair enough,that question is satisfied. I'll take your word for that.
What about the other questions I have asked. I am not trying to put you on the SPOT,I really want answers to these questions.
@Bobsblues "Ever look at the record books in any of the churches in northern Europe and you will see that winter didnt stop people from being baptized"
When I asked the question(since I am in the USA)I was setting a scene of the 1800's in the rural areas of the USA where they had to baptise in streams(creeks and rivers)like John the Baptist did in the Jordan.
And I knew him not: but HE THAT SENT ME TO BAPTIZE WITH WATER, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
@USAFreedomReform " Oh you thought I meant below freezing water,NO I meant water that is right above freezing 33 degree.SO you say that 200 years ago there was not rain in the winter.You say people didn't go to church,but if they did they never had the HolySpirit conviction in the winter because they were not able to recieve the WATER baptism?"
LIAR -I never said ANY of that,THAT is all your imbicile assumption , that you apparently believe baptism in winter is impossible.
@Bobsblues Alright then, I have misunderstood what you said.
Now how was this accomplished 200 years ago in the winter months when people went to church and were under the conviction of the HOLY SPIRIT. How was this accomplished when the availability of water was only enough water to drink. Did they get saved and them wait for spring or summer to warm the water in the streams?
What about today with those who seek to be saved but can not be emersed?
@USAFreedomReform " Of course I take part in communion(as often as it is offered),just like I take part in WATER baptism(one time),and have been witness to many other WATER baptisms as those WHO are SAVED desire to be BAPTISED in WATER to follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ."
Hmm, thats not at all what you said just a few days ago, you said that you took part in water baptism as a SIGN and I stated that if you had already recieved the Holy Spirit then why would you require a further sign ?
@Bobsblues "you said that you took part in water baptism as a SIGN"
Never said as a sign.Who would it be a "SIGN" too?
What I said was this:I took water baptism to follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ. Jesus took the water baptism for a reason,to have the Holy Spirit decend down on him and to give him power over Satan when being tempted.Jesus could not decend on himself,so Jesus used the WATER baptism to fulfil all righteouness and GOD was pleased that Jesus received the Spirit.
@Bobsblues "you said that you took part in water baptism as a SIGN"
Just to make sure (ran out of space)you understand what I meant by:
"Jesus used the WATER baptism (emersion)to fulfil all righteouness and GOD was pleased that Jesus received the Spirit of GOD.There is still mystery in this,because Jesus was already GOD in flesh,so why did the Spirit of GOD have to decend on Jesus.Also,being without sin,perfect,blameless before GOD,water did not wash any sins away.He had NONE.
In Acts 2:41 taking into consideration that Peter and the other 11 were in a house for tha most part of the day,even if they came out of the house and went to WATER to be BAPTISED in WATER,
"how was it possible for about 3000 to be baptized by 12 in the same day"?
This is where I say they were baptised "IN" the name of JESUS CHRIST for the remission of sins. NOT WATER !!
@USAFreedomReform. "@Bobsblues When are you gonna answer the questions about being saved in the winter time 200 years ago? When are you gonna answer the question about the availability of WATER to be baptised?
You are a childish idiot asking questions that only a demented pharisee could ask. There's no water in the winter ???? HUH ??? Did you really ask that ?? You really expect an answer to a question like that ?
@Bobsblues "You are a childish idiot asking questions that only a demented pharisee could ask"
Oh you thought I meant below freezing water,NO I meant water that is right above freezing 33 degree.SO you say that 200 years ago there was not rain in the winter.
You say people didn't go to church,but if they did they never had the HolySpirit conviction in the winter because they were not able to recieve the WATER baptism?
@Bobsblues "Bobsblues When are you gonna answer the questions about being saved in the winter time 200 years ago? When are you gonna answer the question about the availability of WATER to be baptised?
Bobsblues said:You are a childish idiot asking questions that only a demented pharisee could ask. There's no water in the winter ? HUH ? Did you really ask that ? You really expect an answer to a question like that ?
@USAFreedomReform. . - you said - " but now you and your CULTISH LEADERS want to put judgement on other men of the FAITH in JESUS CHRIST and tell them the TABLE of the CoA-C is not available to them"
You wanna show some proof that I have ever stated that I am a member of the denomination that you are speaking of ? As for communion, You must be joking with me that a person who not only doesnt believe in baptism but daily fights against it, actually believes in communion.
@Bobsblues "You must be joking with me that a person who not only doesnt believe in baptism but daily fights against it,actually believes in communion"
Of course I take part in communion(as often as it is offered),just like I take part in WATER baptism(one time),and have been witness to many other WATER baptisms as those WHO are SAVED desire to be BAPTISED in WATER to follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ.
@USAFreedomReform. You said - "It bothers me that I have to be the one to tell you this,but I just can't get you see past your man-made teaching." GOD instituted baptism NOT man. As for man made teaching , perhaps you should stop using the teachings of Calvin to interpret the bible for you.
@USAFreedomReform. You said - "NO!You are telling GOD commanded the use of WATER,when GOD never commanded the use of WATER "
WHO do you think commanded that John use water to baptize ? and that Jesus should be baptized by John , which was in WATER . If God didnt want Jesus baptized in WATER than he obviously would not have sent Him to a person using WATER to baptize . BIG DUH !
@USAFreedomReform. you said -" I have actually been to CoC service where I was told if I was not a member of that particular church, I could not take the Lords Supper.
This is wrong !! Anyone should be allowed to take. "
@Bobsblues When are you gonna answer the questions about being saved in the winter time 200 years ago? When are you gonna answer the question about the availability of WATER to be baptised? When are you gonna answer the questions about those who can not be EMERSED in WATER that want to be saved?
The CoC even has this "Form of Godliness, but denies the POWER of GOD" thru modern day miracles and healing of the sick by laying on of hands.
They had no right to do that. That alone makes the CoC a CULT by the very act of what they did and continue to do.
They had no right to Judge my salvation based on their CULTISH ways,and neither do you.
If you were a visitor at the church of people I attend, you would be welcomed as a true believer in Jesus Christ to sit at the TABLE of JESUS CHRIST. (I ADD)The communion is for man,not man for communion.Same as the Sabbath Day.
@Bobsblues "For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself,not discerning the Lord's body."
So by this verse alone the CoC takes upon its self to deny a fellow believer comming and partaking from the table of Jesus Christ and joining in the communion elements.
Like I said before, THIS IS WRONG !! CULTISHLY WRONG !!
More of that spirit of the church of anti-christ, WE KNOW !!
Peter and Judas were not denied by JESUS to take of the first communion table,(and JESUS knew one would deny him 3 time and the other would betray him)but now you and your CULTISH LEADERS want to put judgement on other men of the FAITH in JESUS CHRIST and tell them the TABLE of the CoA-C is not available to them.
Thank YOU,I don't need to take of the TABLE of CoA-C !!
@USAFreedomReform. "That is the very premise of using and "IDOL"(water) to get what is needed of GOD, .." God Himself instituted water baptism and commanded its use. Jesus had His apostles do the same. You are accusing both God and Jesus of commanding the use of an idol . Only a person not only devoid of the Holy Spirit but highly likely one being driven by a demonic spirit would tell people that doing what God or Jesus commands is idol worship.
@Bobsblues "God Himself instituted water baptism and commanded its use"
Where is that written?
I have not see where GOD himself instituted water baptism and commanded its use !!
(Adding a little something to make your story more believable,ARE you?)
I know why Jesus took water baptism, DO YOU?
Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
@Bobsblues "Accusing both God and Jesus of commanding the use of an idol"
NO!You are telling GOD commanded the use of WATER,when GOD never commanded the use of WATER.Why send his only begotten SON to die on the cross,when he could have just told JOHN the Baptist to start water baptism.
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost,and [with] fire:
@Bobsblues "Only a person not only devoid of the Holy Spirit but highly likely one being driven by a demonic spirit would tell people that doing what God or Jesus commands is idol worship"
As I have told @lllannallll on here,you must not realize it but you are a member of the church of anti-christ spirit that is walking to and fro seeking whom he can devour.
It bothers me that I have to be the one to tell you this,but I just can't get you see past your man-made teaching.
@USAFreedomReform."Do you really think GOD,JESUS,HOLY SPIRIT,needs the water to save lost souls?
In other words,you are downplaying the POWER of GOD,saying GOD,JESUS,HOLY GHOST cant save a lost soul without WATER, if that lost soul calls on the name of Jesus Christ?"
I believe that God has the power to save you any way He chooses to and He chose water as the element by which He imparts it to you.
@USAFreedomReform. "The water part of baptism is for the remission[forgiveness]of sins,which is required for the complete baptism"
you said - " I don't read that ANYWHERE."
Read both of the following scriptures ,John's baptism was water baptism and it was for the remission of sins. When Peter told the people in Acts 2.38 to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the Remission of sins, he was ordering them to take the same baptism that John gave , but in Jesus name.
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
@Bobsblues This is Prophesy of Isaiah (also called Esaias)
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see [it] together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it].
@USAFreedomReform. We see that the Apostles were continuing to baptize in water but im sure that you will continue to believe that this was a ritual. So i'll ask you once again, if the Holy Spirit comes upon a person without baptism then what need would anyone have for a ritual that would then be useless.You are in effect calling the Apostles braindead as if they were all too stupid to catch on if it was actually happening the way you believe.
@Bobsblues "So i'll ask you once again,if the Holy Spirit comes upon a person without baptism then what need would anyone have for a ritual that would then be useless"
If water baptism was what GOD meant for man to take to be saved,was the death of Jesus USELESS?
Just like communion(it won't save you either)but the CoC takes it every Sunday.This is a RITUAL too.
We have to get away from all these ritualistic things and get back to the real worship of GOD, and do as GOD commands.
@USAFreedomReform " I myself trust the words of Jesus Christ as written by MEN, and Jesus Said to be baptized in the HOLY GHOST !!"
No, you dont actually believe what Jesus wrote , when Jesus said go and baptize in the name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost , You twist that into believing that they should just teach and then the Holy Ghost would come upon those who believed.
@Bobsblues "You twist that into believing that they should just teach and then the Holy Ghost would come upon those who believed"
Can the words of Jesus in Matt 28:18,19,20 not be taken literally then?
Where was water mentioned here?
If Jesus had said"teach all nations,using water to baptize them in the NAME of the FATHER,SON,HOLY GHOST" then Jesus would have meant to use water in BAPTISM.
John had already said:
Mat 3:11 he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:
@Bobsblues "you dont actually believe what Jesus wrote"
Jesus never wrote it,Jesus said it and MEN wrote it.
So what is you take on this verse?
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:
**FIRE**, now we have another element added to the mix.
@USAFreedomReform " I myself trust the words of Jesus Christ as written by MEN, and Jesus Said to be baptized in the HOLY GHOST !!"
No, what You trust is your false understanding of what was written. We see the Apostles continuing to baptize in water and the laying on of hands to recieve the Holy Spirit. I provided quotes from the early church to prove that they continued to baptize in water but yet you live in some dillusion that water doesnt really mean water.
@Bobsblues "What You trust is your false understanding of what was written"
Why is my belief in the scriptures any more FALSE that what you believe.There was a time for WATER baptism "for the remission of sins",but that all changed when Jesus came on the scene baptizing " IN " the name of the HOLY GHOST.
How much simplier can it be.It is as plain as the nose on your face yet you want to continue in the OLD ways of doing things pre-Jesus.Jesus came to fullfill the law,not condemn.
@Bobsblues "We see the Apostles continuing to baptize in water and the laying on of hands to recieve the Holy Spirit."
Do you take that to me that what Jesus said in Matt 28 was null and void?
Do you not understand the point I was making about putting idols like water before GOD,when GOD sent his only Son to die on the cross for the sins of the world.Jesus is the only WAY to wash sins away. No amount of water ordained by any PREACHER this day and time will WASH any SIN away.
@Bobsblues "you live in some dillusion that water doesnt really mean water"
No, baptism doesn't mean " IN " WATER. It means baptism " IN " the **NAME** of GOD, " IN " the **NAME** of the SON, and " IN " the ** NAME ** of the HOLY GHOST.
Baptism does not mean " IN " the **name** of WATER. This is where the WATER is being put before GOD as an IDOL.
All thru the history of the BIBLE,man constantly had to put "a god" before the one true living GOD.
"Happy is our sacrament of Water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . . [But] a viper of the [Gnostic] Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism-which is quite in accordance with nature. "
@Bobsblues Was Judas & Peter worthy to take of the last supper?
Jesus already knew who would betray him and who would deny knowing him,but Jesus did not deny them the taking of the bread and the wine, did he. Why then does the CoC not allow visitors to take of the "Lords Supper"?
I have actually been to CoC service where I was told if I was not a member of that particular church, I could not take the Lords Supper.
This is wrong !! Anyone should be allowed to take.
Moreover, those things which were created from the waters were blessed by God, so that this might
also be a sign that men would at a future time receive repentance and remission of sins through Water and the bath of regeneration-all who proceed to the truth and are born again and receive a blessing from God"
@Bobsblues {Theophilus of Antioch A.D. 181 }{Justin Martyr } { A.D.151 }Barnabas { 70-130 AD }[ Irenaeus ]
I read and understood what each of these fine believers stood for,but they missed the GREATEST PART OF ALL.Jesus Saves,NOT WATER,NOT THRU WATER,only 8 were saved.
Now do you trust MAN or do you trust what GOD in flesh said?
Its your decision whom you will believe.
I myself trust the words of Jesus Christ as written by MEN, and Jesus Said to be baptized in the HOLY GHOST !!
"As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them..... continued....
Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father . . . and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit , they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ . {Justin Martyr } { A.D.151 }
" Blessed are they who , placing their trust in the cross, have gone down into the Water.. We indeed descend into the Water full of sins and defilement, however, we come up , bearing fruit in our heart, having fear of God and the trust of Jesus in our spirit."
It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being Baptized, but [it served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred Water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions; being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: “Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
@Bobsblues "the Lord has declared:“Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
Ok,Thats all fine and dandy,but what about the question I posed to you about the availability of WATER in regions that are DRY year round?Barely enough to Drink.
What about people 200 years ago in the winter months.I know they had church service then too. Did the power of the Holy Ghost never come down on people in the WINTER?
@Bobsblues “Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
What about someone who has a sound mind but because of an accident or birth defect,they can'y be baptized in water.ARE THEY GOING TO HELL ?? Has GOD made special provision been made for folks like this.Even modern day war survivors who can't be emersed in WATER that never accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour that now want to be saved. Are they HELL BOUND?
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@USAFreedomReform "So you are telling me, that if a person goes down to a pond that has millions of bacteria in it, and be baptised by a minister of GOD, that that dirty pond water will CLEANSE them of all their sins?. "
If that person is truthfully believing and the baptism is done in the Name of The Father, The Son And The Holy Ghost, then YES that person will recieve forgiveness of their sins.
" Repent And be Baptized FOR the Remission of your Sins"
Bobsblues 4 weeks ago
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@USAFreedomReform"Thats right, "PETER SAW". Again ,are you going to take what Peter said OVER what Jesus Christ said? Do you put more FAITH in what the disciples said and less in what Jesus said?"
This is NOT a matter of Peters opinion versus that of Jesus, It IS a matter of both Peter and Pauls Eye Witness Testimony that people were NOT recieving the Holy Spirit the way you'd like top imagine that it occurs .Are you now calling them both liars in order to hold up your false theology ?
Bobsblues 4 weeks ago
@USAFreedomReform . You still are of the belief that baptism is just a mere ritual , and that its all about people SEEING this ritual. I absolutely reject that it is Only Seeing baptism. No, it is about having faith that the baptism does what God says it will. The sacrament of baptism gives remmision of sins and that is no mere ritual.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "it is about having faith that the baptism does what God says it will"
Where EXACTLY did GOD EVER say THIS?
"The sacrament of baptism gives remmision of sins and that is no mere ritual"
So you are telling me, that if a person goes down to a pond that has millions of bacteria in it, and be baptised by a minister of GOD, that that dirty pond water will CLEANSE them of all their sins? What happens to the sins that committed after after they are baptised?
USAFreedomReform 4 weeks ago
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@USAFreedomReform "Certainly,one who believes salvation can be achieved without water has more faith,by the simple reason that they do not see(by water)but still believe they have been saved. And as much as the one who has to have water baptism to be saved(by seeing)."
I'll even take my previous comment one step further - what I believe you have is a type of faith that believes you can do things your way rather than Gods way. Is willfull disobedience saving faith ?
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform "Certainly,one who believes salvation can be achieved without water has more faith,by the simple reason that they do not see(by water)but still believe they have been saved. And as much as the one who has to have water baptism to be saved(by seeing)."
What you actually believe is that salvation can be achieved by belief alone without compliance to what to what you are commanded to do. Peter saw that belief alone was insufficient for the people in Acts 8
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "Peter saw that belief alone was insufficient for the people in Acts 8"
Thats right, "PETER SAW". Again ,are you going to take what Peter said OVER what Jesus Christ said? Do you put more FAITH in what the disciples said and less in what Jesus said?
If you do this , you are still putting things before YOUR GOD !! The same GOD that said, "You shall have no other gods before me". Get it ??
USAFreedomReform 4 weeks ago
@USAFreedomReform
"Still what do you do say about availibility of WATER, and the need to be saved but can not be emersed?"
THAT is for God to decide, but for the rest who Can comply and refuse , what do you think that makes them ? Faithfull ?
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "For the rest who Can comply and refuse , what do you think that makes them ? Faithfull ?"
Certainly,one who believes salvation can be achieved without water has more faith,by the simple reason that they do not see(by water)but still believe they have been saved. And as much as the one who has to have water baptism to be saved(by seeing).
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform "Actually that was between the eunuch and JESUS CHRIST. Philip asked him prior to WATER baptism, DO YOU BELIEVE WITH ALL YOUR HEART THEN YOU MAY !! Then the eunuch said: "I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD?"So what saved him the water or his belief?"
He WAS WATER baptized , and THAT disproves your theory of water baptism being done away with by Spirit baptism. Of course he had to believe , or Philip wouldnt have given him the baptism.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform - IS THIS WATER BAPTISM ???
Acts 8 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain WATER: and the eunuch said, See, here is WATER; what doth hinder me to be BAPTIZED ? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the WATER, both Philip and the eunuch; and he BAPTIZED him.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "Acts 8:36,37,38 IS THIS WATER BAPTISM ???"
Still what do you do say about availibility of WATER, and the need to be saved but can not be emersed?
DID YOU ADDRESS THOSE QUESTIONS I ASKED? (yes) or (no)
Actually that was between the eunuch and JESUS CHRIST. Philip asked him prior to WATER baptism, DO YOU BELIEVE WITH ALL YOUR HEART THEN YOU MAY !! Then the eunuch said: "I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD?"
So what saved him the water or his belief?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform "If people think water will save them, that the same as putting a physical god(water) before GOD! "
God instituted water baptism and it did not end just because you believe so. Obeying what God instituted, Jesus commanded and the Apostles also commanded is NOT putting anything before God. YOUR instructing people to reject this is YOU putting YOUR idealogy before the word of God.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform" JESUS DID IT ALL ON THE CROSS !! (IT IS FINISHED)
All we have to do is call on the name of Jesus Christ to be SAVED !!
Yes Jesus Did Do It ALL on The cross, but do you see it happening Your way in Acts 8 or
Acts 19 ??
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform- "Water baptism ended with John the Baptist when he said "one greater comes that will baptise with the HOLY GHOST and FIRE" The reason it eneded was because John was to: Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, **Prepare ye the way of the Lord,make his paths straight.** "
How can you keep spewing that this means water baptism ended when you have proof in Acts 8 that WATER BAPTISM DID NOT END.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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GOD said in the ten commandments,"Thou shall have no other gods before me".
If people think water will save them, that the same as putting a physical god(water) before GOD!
Think about it.
JESUS DID IT ALL ON THE CROSS !! (IT IS FINISHED)
All we have to do is call on the name of Jesus Christ to be SAVED !!
IF you turn to Jesus Christ, you turn away from the ways of Satan !!
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform- Dont play games with the bible trying to twist the phrase" they were baptized " , into your bs that this means they were Spirit baptized and not water baptized.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "into your bs that"
HERE is the FRUIT you BEAR !!
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Don't think I am in judgement of you,but even if I was,I will not be judged for saying this,I DIDN'T.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform-
you just said -
"I never said WATER wasn't used to save the eunuch.Philip did as the Spirit of God was telling him to do,and afterward the eunuch didn't see Philip because he was taken away by the Spirit of GOD to another town."
YOUR PREVIOUS QUOTE -
"Water baptism ended with John the Baptist when he said "one greater comes that will baptise with the HOLY GHOST and FIRE". "
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform . Like it or not its WATER BAPTISM.
Acts 8 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain WATER: and the eunuch said, See, here is WATER; what doth hinder me to be BAPTIZED ? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the WATER, both Philip and the eunuch; and he BAPTIZED him.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues Acts 8 36,37,38
I never said WATER wasn't used to save the eunuch.Philip did as the Spirit of God was telling him to do,and afterward the eunuch didn't see Philip because he was taken away by the Spirit of GOD to another town.
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
And the washed their stripes and were baptized in the night.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1John 1:9,10
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform - Are you trying to justify that its ok for you to make up whatever lie you wish ? I ask God for forgiveness of what I do wrong, do you ? It appears not, it really appears that you believe its ok to try to use whatever untruth it takes in order to shore up your false doctrine. And when someone shows that you are lying, what do you do > you turn right around and call that person a liar for having done so.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "And when someone shows that you are lying, what do you do > you turn right around and call that person a liar for having done so"
Neither of us are lying,we are only expressing our belief as we understand it.
Now are both of us RIGHT? That is questionable.
If there was not a verse like the one John the Baptist said in St.Matthew 3:11,St.Mark1:8,St.Luke 3:16, St.John 3:33 7 St.John 3:27,
then your case would be cut & dried.
Go bring the LOST to Jesus Christ !!
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "Are you trying to justify that its ok for you to make up whatever lie you wish ? I ask God for forgiveness of what I do wrong, do you ? It appears not"
Judge not , lest ye be judged by the SAME judgement.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform " @Bobsblues DO YOU FEAR GOD? "
Do you feel that lying is ok in order to achieve your objective ? Do you have any fear of God when you lie concerning what is written in the bible ?
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform - The bible tells us that we all sin and if we say we dont then we are liars. And what are we to do about this ? Repent and ask God for forgiveness.
Do you ever admit your lies, feel guilt over them, ask God for forgiveness ?
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues DO YOU FEAR GOD?
ARE YOU A LIAR ?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues What? Can't admit it before GOD and other MEN?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1John 1:9,10
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform- your quote-
"Water baptism ended with John the Baptist when he said "one greater comes that will baptise with the HOLY GHOST and FIRE". "
MY REPLY -
"Thats a baldfaced lie and if you continue doing that you are showing proof that you do NOT have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you. I know that you are certainly aware that the Apostles continued doing water baptism, yet you put forth this BS because your position is more important to you than the truth."
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "Water baptism ended with John the Baptist when he said "one greater comes that will baptise with the HOLY GHOST and FIRE"
The reason it eneded was because John was to:
Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, **Prepare ye the way of the Lord,make his paths straight.**
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform - Here's your reply - LIAR
@Bobsblues "Thats a Bobsblues lie and if you continue doing that you are showing proof that you do NOT have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you"
Thats more like it !! "
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "Thats a Bobsblues lie and if you continue doing that you are showing proof that you do NOT have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you"
So you are saying that you don't lie. IS THAT WHAT I AM TO TAKE FROM THIS ?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform - " I was not lying about the HOLY SPIRIT over WATER baptism, and if you feel like I am twisting things to make it appear that you are lying.
Well, there you just did it once again, you really have a problem telling the truth. I said you were lying when you stated that water baptism ended with John the Baptist. I proved it with the Eunuch recieving water baptism in Acts 8.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues Answer this Question:
ARE YOU A LIAR ?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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USAFreedomReform " @Bobsblues Are you a liar?"
I have shown you to be a purposfull liar , one who does it whenever it is convenient to twist the truth into whatever you wish it to be.It is bad enough to lie but you use your lies with the intent of decieving others concerning what is written in the bible.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "It is bad enough to lie but you use your lies with the intent of decieving others concerning what is written in the bible"
Here is the most important thing of all when it comes to being saved.
Read it in St.Mark 9: 38-41. (THE REBUKE OF SECTARIANISM) Unless we all come together as believers in Jesus Christ,the world will continue to take its blows on us.
I say we as the entire body need to bring the lost to Jesus Christ instead of making an issue over WATER !!!
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues John 8:44 Thats one thing I like about the book of John, he put the writing on the LINE and didn't mince words to get the point across. Bless St.John for his contribution to GODS HOLY WORD. I was not lying about the HOLY SPIRIT over WATER baptism, and if you feel like I am twisting things to make it appear that you are lying, THEN MAYBE YOU BETTER RECONSIDER WHAT YOU BELIEVE.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues DO YOU FEAR GOD?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform. - "I do not lie though, and if you feel like I am twisting things to make it appear that you are lying...'
You not only twist things to make it appear like im lying, you outright reject , deny and oppose whatever part of the bible refutes your bs theology. You stated that water baptism ended with John the Baptist and I proved that wrong with the Eunuch being baptized in Water in Acts 8 and then you turn around and call Me a liar for doing so.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@ USAFreedomReform - You said - " I do not lie though,"
Well , you just did once again !
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "Well , you just did once again !"
I see what your saying.
The word says that if a man says he does not lie, he is lying by making that statement. WELL , you got me there.
I guess we are all liars by some sence of the WORD of GOD !!
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues Hey , I have a soft heart and when I know I am wrong, I will admit it.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues The marks of false teachers
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues continued:
1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@ USAFreedomReform - You were caught in the lie claiming water baptism ended with John the Baptist and now you try to twist that around and call me the liar. Well then you just lied once again. John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
Acts 8
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they Might Receive the Holy Ghost:
Bobsblues 1 month ago
16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "17 Then laid they their hands on them,and they received the Holy Ghost"
So today if a disciple of Jesus Christ lays hands on one who was before baptised in the name of Jesus Christ,by this verse they will be saved, RIGHT?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform "That was really a meaningful event. Do you think GOD gave the disciples supercharged bodily abilities to handle all that "dunk and rise" in the WATER?
You could be right, but those disciples were really tired afterward."
The Apostles didnt also have to dunk and rise , they only had to have the others do that.
As for there ability to carry that out,remember that it was 12 apostles that distributed the bread and fish to 5000 people.Jesus multiplied it, they distributed it
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform "If the woman with the issue of blood did it with FAITH, what is to keep modern man from FAITHFULLY calling on the name of JESUS CHRIST to be SAVED? "
It takes Faith to have the baptism . It takes Faith to believe enough that we must do this because we were told that this is the way God wants to dispence forgiveness to mankind.
It took Faith to build an ark but God still used water, it took Faith to go to the pool to be healed but God used water and baptism requires faith
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "It took Faith to build an ark but God still used water, it took Faith to go to the pool to be healed but God used water and baptism requires faith"
Ok so you have faith that you are saved thru water baptism and I have faith that I am baptised by the HOLY GHOST " IN " the name of Jesus Christ.
SO WE ARE BOTH SAVED BY DIFFERENT MODES OF FAITH !!
RIGHT !!
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform you said - "Dr. Jimmy Allen said at about :32 No One had to be ......"
Hmmm, now THAT just made you a hypocrite and guilty of exactly what you accused me of when I quoted the early church writers, and you asked me if I follow men or the bible !
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "THAT just made you a hypocrite and guilty of exactly what you accused me of when I quoted the early church writers, and you asked me if I follow men or the bible"
OK , that made no sense. Catch me up to what you are refering to.
I think you misunderstood what I meant by what I said Dr. J. Allen was saying.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform - you asked - "Did you read any of what transpired before Acts 2:38?
What about after Acts 2:38?"
Oh YES !!! Acts 19 just completely trashes your concept of Just believe and the Holy Spirit then comes and baptizes you. Did those people have to DO Something in order to recieve the Holy Spirit ? Why , yes they did ! and apparently neither Peter nor Paul viewed that doing THAT was a work .
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform I said- "Are you ready to concede that Acts 2.38 was water baptism for the remission of sins" - your reply -
" THIS WOULD BE LIKE GIVING IN TO SATAN !! "
You've already done that when you reject what is written in the bible because it doesnt fit your idealogy. You have made up your own false religion in order to have one that fits the way you'd like it to be.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform "How did they manage to baptize 3000 in less that a day? I know how, it was baptism "IN" the NAME of the FATHER,SON,and HOLY GHOST."
I explained to you yesterday exactly how that could very easily have been done.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform
"Dr. Jimmy Allen said at about :32 No One had to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins until after the Great Commission went into force. I wonder what John the Baptist was doing out there in the wilderness of Judaea before Jesus was crucified then."
Dr Allen DID NOT say that NO ONE had to be baptised for the remission of sins prior to Jesus death, no he said that it wasnt in Jesus name. THAT is exactly what continues to trip you up.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform
Acts 8:38-39
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the WATER, both Philip and the eunuch; and he BAPTIZED him.
39 And when they were come up out of the WATER, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform
"Water baptism ended with John the Baptist when he said "one greater comes that will baptise with the HOLY GHOST and FIRE". "
Thats a baldfaced lie and if you continue doing that you are showing proof that you do NOT have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you. I know that you are certainly aware that the Apostles continued doing water baptism, yet you put forth this BS because your position is more important to you than the truth.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "Thats a Bobsblues lie and if you continue doing that you are showing proof that you do NOT have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you"
Thats more like it !!
So was the eunuch saved before he went into the water to be BAPTIZED. He didn't see his administrator of the baptism after he came up because the Spirit of GOD put Phillip in another town.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
In Acts 2.38 the Apostle Peter commanded them to be baptized for the remission of sins, this is the same baptism as in Mark1:4-5 But it is now in the Name of Jesus. This IS Water baptism done in the name of Jesus.
Mark 1:4-5
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "This IS Water baptism done in the name of Jesus"
Mark 1:4-5
This was before the Great Commission though.
They WERE still doing the WATER baptism then.
That was AD 26, the same as Matthew , Luke , And JOHN.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues I said THEY, It should have been JOHN the BAPTIST only was doing it then.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
John baptism was water baptism , it was for the remission of sins, instituted by God !
Luke 7:
29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "John baptism was water baptism , it was for the remission of sins, instituted by God"
I know,I missed a word there , "WATER" and it changed the whole meaning I was trying to ask in that question , SORRY !!
*What I meant to ask was I wonder what the was said before,during,after the baptism in WATER that was performed when John the Baptist,baptized people unto the remission of sin?*
example:Did he say in the name of Jesus Christ you are baptised (as he was dunking them)?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
I wonder what the method of baptism was when John the Baptist,baptized people unto the remission of sin?
What did John say right before he baptised a person?
Did John baptise "in" the name of Jesus Christ, or did he baptise "in" the that name of GOD?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
Dr. Jimmy Allen said at about :32 No One had to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins until after the Great Commission went into force.
I wonder what John the Baptist was doing out there in the wilderness of Judaea before Jesus was crucified then. Also,apparently Jesus had to be baptized in order to receive the Spirit of GOD at the hands of John the Baptist although Jesus bore no sin to be washed away.
Dr.Jimmy must not have remembered that part.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform- Are you ready to concede that Acts 2.38 was water baptism for the remission of sins and that it was God who instituted water baptism for remission of sins by John the Baptist ?
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "you ready to concede Acts 2.38 was water baptism"
Are you are ready to admit you added the word WATER to suit you own belief.
For God so loved the world,that he gave his only begotten Son,that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,but have everlasting life.
Repent,and be baptized every one of you "IN" the NAME of JESUS CHRIST FOR the remission of sins,and you shall receive the gift of the HOLY GHOST.
These are the basically the same.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "Are you ready to concede that Acts 2.38 was water baptism"
Did you read any of what transpired before Acts 2:38?
What about after Acts 2:38?
Water baptism ended with John the Baptist when he said "one greater comes that will baptise with the HOLY GHOST and FIRE".
REMEMBER !!
Peter and the other 11 preached most of the day.
How did they manage to baptize 3000 in less that a day? I know how, it was baptism "IN" the NAME of the FATHER,SON,and HOLY GHOST.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "God who instituted water baptism for remission of sins by John the Baptist"
The reason for this is told in Matthew 3:3. He was to Prepare the way for the Lord,making his paths straight.Also found in Isaiah 40:3.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "Are you ready to concede that Acts 2.38 was water baptism for the remission of sins"
THIS WOULD BE LIKE GIVING IN TO SATAN !!
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform " I don't know what denomination you belong to,but you are upholding the belief and view of the CoC.
What denomination are you?"
My family has been Lutheran since the reformation.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform "When I asked the question(since I am in the USA)I was setting a scene of the 1800's in the rural areas of the USA where they had to baptise in streams(creeks and rivers)like John the Baptist did in the Jordan."
People had wooden troughs that held water to use for bathing, this is certainly sufficient to dunk a person for baptism. If the water freezes or you have snow, then you put it over the fire in buckets and melt it and then fill your bathing trough.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "People had wooden troughs that held water to use for bathing"
Would that work in a "MUD HOLE" full of water too??
Alright what about those today that seek to be saved after an accident where they can't be emersed in water for whatever reason.Lets say they want to be saved and call on the name of JESUS CHRIST to save them.
Lets say they have to have a sponge bath when the are bathed.
Will that person go to HELL for not being emersed?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform - "how was it possible for about 3000 to be baptized by 12 in the same day"?"
You take them to a stream , a river, lake, pond etc. 3000 people with 12 apostles baptizing would break down to 250 people for each apostle. If they did this for even just 6 hours it would only be aprox 42 people per hour for each apostle. You put a dozen or more in at a time and you've got 20 minutes for each group.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "If they did this for even just 6 hours it would only be aprox 42 people per hour for each apostle"
That was really a meaningful event. Do you think GOD gave the disciples supercharged bodily abilities to handle all that "dunk and rise" in the WATER?
You could be right, but those disciples were really tired afterward.
All the woman did that had the issue of blood was touch the hem of Jesus' garment to be made whole by her FAITH.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "must be DUNKED in WATER to be SAVED"
If the woman with the issue of blood did it with FAITH, what is to keep modern man from FAITHFULLY calling on the name of JESUS CHRIST to be SAVED?
Look at all the healings and raised dead that Jesus did and you will see that the FAITH of the people being healed was what Jesus said healed them. Look at those raised from the dead and you will see the People who wanted them raised from the DEAD were the ones with the FAITH that raised.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform " Now how was this accomplished 200 years ago in the winter months when people went to church and were under the conviction of the HOLY SPIRIT. "
I'll ask you again what difference winter makes in this ? Ever look at the record books in any of the churches in northern Europe and you will see that winter didnt stop people from being baptized.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "Ever look at the record books in any of the churches in northern Europe and you will see that winter didnt stop people from being baptized"
I have never been to northern Europe to see any church record books. Fair enough,that question is satisfied. I'll take your word for that.
What about the other questions I have asked. I am not trying to put you on the SPOT,I really want answers to these questions.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "Ever look at the record books in any of the churches in northern Europe and you will see that winter didnt stop people from being baptized"
When I asked the question(since I am in the USA)I was setting a scene of the 1800's in the rural areas of the USA where they had to baptise in streams(creeks and rivers)like John the Baptist did in the Jordan.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform
"Ok,where did GOD institute baptism? Was it when the Spirit of GOD decended on Jesus after he came up out of the Jordan river? Where?"
Here
John 1:33
And I knew him not: but HE THAT SENT ME TO BAPTIZE WITH WATER, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost"
Thank you !! Sometimes we have to help each other see things that have been read many times.
Up in John 1:31 John said the same thing.So 3 things are confirmed here.
1) GOD told John to baptize with water,
2)Afterward JESUS still BAPTIZES with the HOLY GHOST, and
3) Jesus is declared by JOHN to be the Son of GOD.
Agree?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "Bobsblues When are you gonna answer the questions about being saved in the winter time 200 years ago?"
HUH ? Did you really ask that ? You really expect an answer to a question like that ?
"I say YES I want an answer !!"
What does winter time 200 years ago have to do with anyone getting saved ?
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform " Oh you thought I meant below freezing water,NO I meant water that is right above freezing 33 degree.SO you say that 200 years ago there was not rain in the winter.You say people didn't go to church,but if they did they never had the HolySpirit conviction in the winter because they were not able to recieve the WATER baptism?"
LIAR -I never said ANY of that,THAT is all your imbicile assumption , that you apparently believe baptism in winter is impossible.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues Alright then, I have misunderstood what you said.
Now how was this accomplished 200 years ago in the winter months when people went to church and were under the conviction of the HOLY SPIRIT. How was this accomplished when the availability of water was only enough water to drink. Did they get saved and them wait for spring or summer to warm the water in the streams?
What about today with those who seek to be saved but can not be emersed?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "LIAR -I never said ANY of that,THAT is all your imbicile assumption , that you apparently believe baptism in winter is impossible"
I know it is entirely POSSIBLE, but what about the availibility of water in drier regions where people live with just enough water to drink?
What about those that call on the name of Jesus Christ, but for some reason can't be emersed because of an accident or disability?
I have another question for you too.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform "@Bobsblues "GOD instituted baptism NOT man"
Where is that verse were GOD baptised anyone? "
Read my quote again, I did not say that God baptized , I said that God instituted baptism.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "I did not say that God baptized,I said that God instituted baptism"
Ok,where did GOD institute baptism? Was it when the Spirit of GOD decended on Jesus after he came up out of the Jordan river? Where?
John the Baptist had already been baptizing to the remission of sin in the wilderness.
Jesus had no sin to be washed away by being baptised did he?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform " Of course I take part in communion(as often as it is offered),just like I take part in WATER baptism(one time),and have been witness to many other WATER baptisms as those WHO are SAVED desire to be BAPTISED in WATER to follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ."
Hmm, thats not at all what you said just a few days ago, you said that you took part in water baptism as a SIGN and I stated that if you had already recieved the Holy Spirit then why would you require a further sign ?
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "you said that you took part in water baptism as a SIGN"
Never said as a sign.Who would it be a "SIGN" too?
What I said was this:I took water baptism to follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ. Jesus took the water baptism for a reason,to have the Holy Spirit decend down on him and to give him power over Satan when being tempted.Jesus could not decend on himself,so Jesus used the WATER baptism to fulfil all righteouness and GOD was pleased that Jesus received the Spirit.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "you said that you took part in water baptism as a SIGN"
Just to make sure (ran out of space)you understand what I meant by:
"Jesus used the WATER baptism (emersion)to fulfil all righteouness and GOD was pleased that Jesus received the Spirit of GOD.There is still mystery in this,because Jesus was already GOD in flesh,so why did the Spirit of GOD have to decend on Jesus.Also,being without sin,perfect,blameless before GOD,water did not wash any sins away.He had NONE.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues Here is some more questions for you:
Who baptised John the Baptist?
In Acts 2:41 taking into consideration that Peter and the other 11 were in a house for tha most part of the day,even if they came out of the house and went to WATER to be BAPTISED in WATER,
"how was it possible for about 3000 to be baptized by 12 in the same day"?
This is where I say they were baptised "IN" the name of JESUS CHRIST for the remission of sins. NOT WATER !!
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform. "@Bobsblues When are you gonna answer the questions about being saved in the winter time 200 years ago? When are you gonna answer the question about the availability of WATER to be baptised?
You are a childish idiot asking questions that only a demented pharisee could ask. There's no water in the winter ???? HUH ??? Did you really ask that ?? You really expect an answer to a question like that ?
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "You are a childish idiot asking questions that only a demented pharisee could ask"
Oh you thought I meant below freezing water,NO I meant water that is right above freezing 33 degree.SO you say that 200 years ago there was not rain in the winter.
You say people didn't go to church,but if they did they never had the HolySpirit conviction in the winter because they were not able to recieve the WATER baptism?
Is that what you are saying?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "Bobsblues When are you gonna answer the questions about being saved in the winter time 200 years ago? When are you gonna answer the question about the availability of WATER to be baptised?
Bobsblues said:You are a childish idiot asking questions that only a demented pharisee could ask. There's no water in the winter ? HUH ? Did you really ask that ? You really expect an answer to a question like that ?
I say YES I want an answer !!
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform. . - you said - " but now you and your CULTISH LEADERS want to put judgement on other men of the FAITH in JESUS CHRIST and tell them the TABLE of the CoA-C is not available to them"
You wanna show some proof that I have ever stated that I am a member of the denomination that you are speaking of ? As for communion, You must be joking with me that a person who not only doesnt believe in baptism but daily fights against it, actually believes in communion.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "You must be joking with me that a person who not only doesnt believe in baptism but daily fights against it,actually believes in communion"
Of course I take part in communion(as often as it is offered),just like I take part in WATER baptism(one time),and have been witness to many other WATER baptisms as those WHO are SAVED desire to be BAPTISED in WATER to follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "You wanna show some proof that I have ever stated that I am a member of the denomination that you are speaking of ?"
I apologize and ask your forgivness for assuming what I do not know.
I don't know what denomination you belong to,but you are upholding the belief and view of the CoC.
What denomination are you?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform. You said - "It bothers me that I have to be the one to tell you this,but I just can't get you see past your man-made teaching." GOD instituted baptism NOT man. As for man made teaching , perhaps you should stop using the teachings of Calvin to interpret the bible for you.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "perhaps you should stop using the teachings of Calvin"
I have never studied the teachings of Calvin,so how sould I possibly be allowing his teachings to interpret the bible for me?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues
This is as simple as Jesus asking the disciples in Mat 16:13,14,15,16:
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi,he asked his disciples,saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
And they said,Some [say that thou art] John the Baptist: some,Elias; and others, Jeremias,or one of the prophets
.
He saith unto them,But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said,Thou art the Christ,the Son of the living God.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him,Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona:
for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Do you let Father,Son,and Holy Ghost reveal to you the significance of WATER baptism,or do you allow man to reveal it to you?
We are taught things over and over for years by men,sunday school teachers,preachers,but when did we go to GOD.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues
for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee,but my Father which is in heaven.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "GOD instituted baptism NOT man"
Where is that verse were GOD baptised anyone?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform. You said - "NO!You are telling GOD commanded the use of WATER,when GOD never commanded the use of WATER "
WHO do you think commanded that John use water to baptize ? and that Jesus should be baptized by John , which was in WATER . If God didnt want Jesus baptized in WATER than he obviously would not have sent Him to a person using WATER to baptize . BIG DUH !
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform. you said -" I have actually been to CoC service where I was told if I was not a member of that particular church, I could not take the Lords Supper.
This is wrong !! Anyone should be allowed to take. "
Its a good thing they do:
1 Corinthians 11:28-30
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues When are you gonna answer the questions about being saved in the winter time 200 years ago? When are you gonna answer the question about the availability of WATER to be baptised? When are you gonna answer the questions about those who can not be EMERSED in WATER that want to be saved?
The CoC even has this "Form of Godliness, but denies the POWER of GOD" thru modern day miracles and healing of the sick by laying on of hands.
Why can't you include these and answer these?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "Its a good thing they do"
They had no right to do that. That alone makes the CoC a CULT by the very act of what they did and continue to do.
They had no right to Judge my salvation based on their CULTISH ways,and neither do you.
If you were a visitor at the church of people I attend, you would be welcomed as a true believer in Jesus Christ to sit at the TABLE of JESUS CHRIST. (I ADD)The communion is for man,not man for communion.Same as the Sabbath Day.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself,not discerning the Lord's body."
So by this verse alone the CoC takes upon its self to deny a fellow believer comming and partaking from the table of Jesus Christ and joining in the communion elements.
Like I said before, THIS IS WRONG !! CULTISHLY WRONG !!
More of that spirit of the church of anti-christ, WE KNOW !!
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues This is wrong !! Anyone should be allowed to take"
Its a good thing they do:
1 Corinthians 11:28-30
Peter and Judas were not denied by JESUS to take of the first communion table,(and JESUS knew one would deny him 3 time and the other would betray him)but now you and your CULTISH LEADERS want to put judgement on other men of the FAITH in JESUS CHRIST and tell them the TABLE of the CoA-C is not available to them.
Thank YOU,I don't need to take of the TABLE of CoA-C !!
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform. "That is the very premise of using and "IDOL"(water) to get what is needed of GOD, .." God Himself instituted water baptism and commanded its use. Jesus had His apostles do the same. You are accusing both God and Jesus of commanding the use of an idol . Only a person not only devoid of the Holy Spirit but highly likely one being driven by a demonic spirit would tell people that doing what God or Jesus commands is idol worship.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "God Himself instituted water baptism and commanded its use"
Where is that written?
I have not see where GOD himself instituted water baptism and commanded its use !!
(Adding a little something to make your story more believable,ARE you?)
I know why Jesus took water baptism, DO YOU?
Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@Bobsblues "Accusing both God and Jesus of commanding the use of an idol"
NO!You are telling GOD commanded the use of WATER,when GOD never commanded the use of WATER.Why send his only begotten SON to die on the cross,when he could have just told JOHN the Baptist to start water baptism.
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost,and [with] fire:
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "Only a person not only devoid of the Holy Spirit but highly likely one being driven by a demonic spirit would tell people that doing what God or Jesus commands is idol worship"
As I have told @lllannallll on here,you must not realize it but you are a member of the church of anti-christ spirit that is walking to and fro seeking whom he can devour.
It bothers me that I have to be the one to tell you this,but I just can't get you see past your man-made teaching.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform. you said -"In other words,you are downplaying the POWER of GOD,saying GOD,JESUS,HOLY GHOST cant save a lost soul without WATER,"
In other words You are downplaying the power of God to Use Water and have come to believe that you can and will do it Your way, not God's way.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@USAFreedomReform."Do you really think GOD,JESUS,HOLY SPIRIT,needs the water to save lost souls?
In other words,you are downplaying the POWER of GOD,saying GOD,JESUS,HOLY GHOST cant save a lost soul without WATER, if that lost soul calls on the name of Jesus Christ?"
I believe that God has the power to save you any way He chooses to and He chose water as the element by which He imparts it to you.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform. "The water part of baptism is for the remission[forgiveness]of sins,which is required for the complete baptism"
you said - " I don't read that ANYWHERE."
Read both of the following scriptures ,John's baptism was water baptism and it was for the remission of sins. When Peter told the people in Acts 2.38 to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the Remission of sins, he was ordering them to take the same baptism that John gave , but in Jesus name.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
Mark 1:4-5
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues This is Prophesy of Isaiah (also called Esaias)
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see [it] together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it].
Isa 40:3,4,5
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform. We see that the Apostles were continuing to baptize in water but im sure that you will continue to believe that this was a ritual. So i'll ask you once again, if the Holy Spirit comes upon a person without baptism then what need would anyone have for a ritual that would then be useless.You are in effect calling the Apostles braindead as if they were all too stupid to catch on if it was actually happening the way you believe.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "So i'll ask you once again,if the Holy Spirit comes upon a person without baptism then what need would anyone have for a ritual that would then be useless"
If water baptism was what GOD meant for man to take to be saved,was the death of Jesus USELESS?
Just like communion(it won't save you either)but the CoC takes it every Sunday.This is a RITUAL too.
We have to get away from all these ritualistic things and get back to the real worship of GOD, and do as GOD commands.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "We see that the Apostles were continuing to baptize"
How many places does it say "The Apostles baptized in WATER", after Matt 28:19 ?
One time,two times.One was Phillip and the Eunuch and where else? Do you know,I may have missed it.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform " I myself trust the words of Jesus Christ as written by MEN, and Jesus Said to be baptized in the HOLY GHOST !!"
No, you dont actually believe what Jesus wrote , when Jesus said go and baptize in the name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost , You twist that into believing that they should just teach and then the Holy Ghost would come upon those who believed.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "You twist that into believing that they should just teach and then the Holy Ghost would come upon those who believed"
Can the words of Jesus in Matt 28:18,19,20 not be taken literally then?
Where was water mentioned here?
If Jesus had said"teach all nations,using water to baptize them in the NAME of the FATHER,SON,HOLY GHOST" then Jesus would have meant to use water in BAPTISM.
John had already said:
Mat 3:11 he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "you dont actually believe what Jesus wrote"
Jesus never wrote it,Jesus said it and MEN wrote it.
So what is you take on this verse?
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:
**FIRE**, now we have another element added to the mix.
Please.... can you explain?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
@USAFreedomReform " I myself trust the words of Jesus Christ as written by MEN, and Jesus Said to be baptized in the HOLY GHOST !!"
No, what You trust is your false understanding of what was written. We see the Apostles continuing to baptize in water and the laying on of hands to recieve the Holy Spirit. I provided quotes from the early church to prove that they continued to baptize in water but yet you live in some dillusion that water doesnt really mean water.
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "What You trust is your false understanding of what was written"
Why is my belief in the scriptures any more FALSE that what you believe.There was a time for WATER baptism "for the remission of sins",but that all changed when Jesus came on the scene baptizing " IN " the name of the HOLY GHOST.
How much simplier can it be.It is as plain as the nose on your face yet you want to continue in the OLD ways of doing things pre-Jesus.Jesus came to fullfill the law,not condemn.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "We see the Apostles continuing to baptize in water and the laying on of hands to recieve the Holy Spirit."
Do you take that to me that what Jesus said in Matt 28 was null and void?
Do you not understand the point I was making about putting idols like water before GOD,when GOD sent his only Son to die on the cross for the sins of the world.Jesus is the only WAY to wash sins away. No amount of water ordained by any PREACHER this day and time will WASH any SIN away.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "I provided quotes from the early church to prove that they continued to baptize in water"
Of course it doesn't mean WATER, read this:
1Cr 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
If you want to continue in your belief that you have been taught by MEN, go ahead. As Jesus ask Peter,who do you say that I am.
So,do you get your knowledge from GOD or MEN?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "you live in some dillusion that water doesnt really mean water"
No, baptism doesn't mean " IN " WATER. It means baptism " IN " the **NAME** of GOD, " IN " the **NAME** of the SON, and " IN " the ** NAME ** of the HOLY GHOST.
Baptism does not mean " IN " the **name** of WATER. This is where the WATER is being put before GOD as an IDOL.
All thru the history of the BIBLE,man constantly had to put "a god" before the one true living GOD.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
"Happy is our sacrament of Water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . . [But] a viper of the [Gnostic] Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism-which is quite in accordance with nature. "
{ Tertullian A.D. 201 }
Bobsblues 1 month ago
@Bobsblues Was Judas & Peter worthy to take of the last supper?
Jesus already knew who would betray him and who would deny knowing him,but Jesus did not deny them the taking of the bread and the wine, did he. Why then does the CoC not allow visitors to take of the "Lords Supper"?
I have actually been to CoC service where I was told if I was not a member of that particular church, I could not take the Lords Supper.
This is wrong !! Anyone should be allowed to take.
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
Moreover, those things which were created from the waters were blessed by God, so that this might
also be a sign that men would at a future time receive repentance and remission of sins through Water and the bath of regeneration-all who proceed to the truth and are born again and receive a blessing from God"
{Theophilus of Antioch A.D. 181 }
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues {Theophilus of Antioch A.D. 181 }{Justin Martyr } { A.D.151 }Barnabas { 70-130 AD }[ Irenaeus ]
I read and understood what each of these fine believers stood for,but they missed the GREATEST PART OF ALL.Jesus Saves,NOT WATER,NOT THRU WATER,only 8 were saved.
Now do you trust MAN or do you trust what GOD in flesh said?
Its your decision whom you will believe.
I myself trust the words of Jesus Christ as written by MEN, and Jesus Said to be baptized in the HOLY GHOST !!
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues
Do you ever question the clarity of what Jesus meant by saying "be baptized " IN " the name of the Father,of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost".
Notice , WATER , is not mentioned once in this passage in Matthew 28:18,19,20
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
REAL Water
"As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them..... continued....
Bobsblues 1 month ago
Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father . . . and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit , they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ . {Justin Martyr } { A.D.151 }
Bobsblues 1 month ago
REAL Water
" Blessed are they who , placing their trust in the cross, have gone down into the Water.. We indeed descend into the Water full of sins and defilement, however, we come up , bearing fruit in our heart, having fear of God and the trust of Jesus in our spirit."
Barnabas { 70-130 AD }
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues Baptism before Jesus ascended was WATER baptism, but after Baptism was thru the Holy Ghost by calling on the name of Jesus Christ.
Did Jesus ever baptize anyone in WATER?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being Baptized, but [it served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred Water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions; being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: “Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
[ Irenaeus ]
Bobsblues 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues "the Lord has declared:“Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
Ok,Thats all fine and dandy,but what about the question I posed to you about the availability of WATER in regions that are DRY year round?Barely enough to Drink.
What about people 200 years ago in the winter months.I know they had church service then too. Did the power of the Holy Ghost never come down on people in the WINTER?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago
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@Bobsblues “Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
What about someone who has a sound mind but because of an accident or birth defect,they can'y be baptized in water.ARE THEY GOING TO HELL ?? Has GOD made special provision been made for folks like this.Even modern day war survivors who can't be emersed in WATER that never accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour that now want to be saved. Are they HELL BOUND?
USAFreedomReform 1 month ago