Han Shan speaks out on the Olympic Torch Relay in Tibet

[banzaidawan]

How did you like the BEST OLYMPICS EVER, STUPID?

[xXJackyLooXx]

What an unfortunate tibetans but they deserve it for making the world unpeace...

a slave nation, how can be a master... sigh

I'm sorry for chinese coz they have to live with mad cow... neighbourly, sigh again.

[julesUK2007]

I think Jacky, you may be failing to grasp the issues.

[Malaysians12346]

No freedom and democracy in the whole of Tibet;

China is brutal killings in the whole of Tibet;

Many Tibetans are arrested and imprisoned by Communist China;

Many Tibetan Monks are being tortured by Communist China;

[wwchak]

Too bad, game is over. False alarm is also over. This guy talking on the atreet is an idiot.

[adanfort]

Where is tibet? any oil over there? why so many people interested?

[lcsxwtian]

Who fucking gives a shit about what he thinks?

[shijieheping123]

People in Tibet would've felt hurt and discriminated against if the torch went everywhere in China but Tibet. Luckily, that did not happen.

[ProudLiberal110]

@shijieheping123 So how does it feel to know you'll ALWAYS be wrong? U took the tourch thru Tibet & everyone thought it was hateful propagada & if you skipped Tibet it would have proven Tibet isn't a part of China! Hahaha must suck to be Chinese.

[yche332]

who on earth care about what he is talking about?

[FreeTheTruth1]

Stupid guy, Tibet belongs to China, why can't they run their torch through their own land. That guy needs to learn his history first because all this trash talking.

[billk61]

You probably won't understand this but I will try anyway.

Tibet "belongs" to China because China has stolen it from the Tibetans by virtue of its military might. For Tibetans and indeed for rest of the world, China parading the olympic torch through Tibet is imperialist triumphalism. Just like when Japanese and Western imperialists marched their troops around occupied China in the past to show the Chinese they "owned" it.

[FreeTheTruth1]

billk61, you probably don't know this, but I'll try anyways. Tibet has been part of China since the 13th century. Until recently, western powers and the CIA have been trying to influence the extremist/separatist Tibetans to rebell against China. Not all the Tibetans are for this since they have been freed from the former slave masters. Western powers are still currently funding the separatist Tibetan group there. Tibet is already free and Tibet belongs to China. Even the Dalai Lama said so.

[billk61]

Sorry you are wrong. Tibet and China have both been part of Mongol and Manchu empires. However, Tibet was largely self-governing until China invaded in 1949. The CIA stopped supporting the guerilla war in 1972. China was also a feudal society and, given the way Tibetans are treated by it, all this stuff about freeing them from slavery is a bit rich. The Dalai Lama supports negotiating real autonomy within China. He has not said Tibet belongs to China to brutalize as it pleases.

[gongchang02]

I just want make one thing clear to you, arguing that TIbet does not really belong to China will do nothing.

TIbet is part of China and will be in the foreseeable future and no single country in the world dare to challenge that. Even those hypocritic western countries claims very clear that Tibet is part of China before or after criticizing China.

Then, tell me why can't CHina run the Torch relay?

[billk61]

I think we are all getting too caught up with who was ruled by who in the distant past. The key point is that right now Tibetan people cannot tolerate the conditions they are living under and so they have rebelled. Running the torch relay through Lhasa will inflame discontent.

China, as the powerful figure, should be trying to find a solution that will bring about peaceful coexistence between Tibetans and Chinese. Real,lasting peace cannot be built with teargas and bullets.

[gongchang02]

So that means you agree that sovereignty is something that is unquestionable or challengeable.

I agree with you the problem needs a solution.After all,Dalai Lama is the religious leader of Tibet,and there is no doubt about that. But turning Tibet again into a "pure religious spiritual land" is not at interest of Tibetans in the modern time.

Also, a understanding of China's history of frontiers will ditch the "greater Tibet claim" by Dalai Lama.

[billk61]

Hi

No I disagree that sovereignty is unchallengeable. I'm saying there has to be rapprochement between the Tibetan and Chinese peoples.

The Tibetans do not want to restore a pre-modern society but I'm sure they do want the right balance of modernity and tradition. Throw out too much tradition and life becomes empty. Having come through the Cultural Revolution,the Chinese people deeply understand this. Now there is increased interest in Chinese culture, arts and litrerature.

[gongchang02]

Then,you get the conditions wrong. Any party that challenge sovereignty will not be invited to have a talk. That is the bottom line,and thus be realistic.

Tibetan culture is appreciated because of common buddhist heritage. No one wants to or is going to eliminate Tibetan culture. When you say should "Han CHinese People",because in Chinese "Chinese People" includes Tibetans and many other ethnic groups.

National integration is popular in countries like US,and why doubted in China?

[billk61]

By Chinese people I meant the people living within traditional Chinese lands and speaking Chinese for many generations. So you are right, that excludes people like the Bai, Dai, Yi and so on, who have a long history of active engagement with the Chinese speaking majority. I think "Han" is a relatively new concept and refers to cultural history as I did above.

However, Tibetan people do not see themselves as Chinese so my terms reflect their understanding.

[billk61]

Regardless of whether Tibet became an autonomous province like Hong Kong or became a separate state, there would be no going back to a pre-modern theocracy. I don't think anybody wants that. The Dalai Lama and the TGIE are very clear that they want a secular, representative democracy where the Dalai Lama would have greatly reduced powers in comparison with pre-modern times.

[gongchang02]

Feudality in China ended in 1911. Also, TIbet was not even a feudal society,but a society with serfdom.

Even during the years you claimed Tibet was self-ruled during 1930s-1950, there were representatives sent by Dalai to participate in the constitution committee of Rebublic of China, he himself was born in a village in QInghai, where there were more muslims than Tibetans,and put to position by officials from the central government of REpublic of CHina.

[bg24955]

correction: china proper ended the system of serfdom around 200BC (by the guy who build the great wall.) Tibet did at 1959AD. China don't have feudal lordship in the western sense. conforming to the Confucians governance, no feudal lord owns both land and its people.

[FreeTheTruth1]

He is such a bullshit liar. Stop these propaganda politics! He's probably never been to Tibet in his life.

[trombalazanas]

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[USoldOutCanadians]

China is bad kids