Judge Napolitano - Healthcare Is A Good NOT a Right

[sl3ptsolong]

Healthcare is a right in the UK. I believe the only good moral choice for a civilised and advancing society is to make Healthcare a right. Medical problems dont arise when you have enough money for the cure! Many Americans are too poor they will put off going to the Emergency Room because they'll receive a bill. Food yes its a need but also morally everyone should have the right to it. Needs of a population should be met by the Government that is why we elect.

[JDL8989]

@sl3ptsolong It's liberals like you and the rest of Europe that have these views, which is why all those countries are lazy and going bankrupt. Socialism DOESN'T WORK, and it NEVER WILL. Just ask Greece!

[sl3ptsolong]

@JDL8989

The morals of what I said stand firm. People no matter how much money their parents have deserve the same start in life. A roof over their heads, food in their bellies and enough knowledge thrown at them to build themselves a life. Bankrupcy now the problem is in the name. Its the damn banks that steal all our money making the rich richer and the poor poorer. The greed of the capitalist system creates poor people - someone has to lose.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@Foreverclever87 Education is a good. Thats why it was SPECIFICALLY rejected as an enumerated power of congress at the constitutional convention.

[BasilFawlty4444]

I happen to believe that healthcare IS a right.

Thank God I'm British and we have the NHS.

America worries me sometimes... and the controversy over universal healthcare worries me.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 Of course you do. In America we recognise our rights as granted by the laws of nature & natures God (at least thats what we told King George). Rights are self evident. Government cannot grant them nor take them away. In socialized leaning countries like the UK rights are viewd as a gift from government. & if the government grants rights they can take them away. Moreover, in order to FORCE a man to pay for someone elses healthcare you must destroy his rights to grant a privilage.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 ha ha ha, those ideas about natural rights were originally British. Everyone on both sides of the pond were talking about it. Google John Locke for starters.

Look at what Edmund Burke MP had to say about the American revolution:

"Do not think, that the whole, or even the uninfluenced majority, of Englishmen in this island are enemies to their own blood on the American continent. Much delusion has been practiced; much corrupt influence treacherously employed."

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 America was the first to put the enlightenment in to practice, relying hevily on Locke through as seen in the Declaration. How long did it take the British? Well, they still havent figured it out. They abandoned Locke for Rousseau.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 Don't flatter yourself; the ideas were British, and were commonly held. You may be surprised to know that the the War of Independence was hugely unpopular back home in the UK, where many people sympathised with the American colonists.

And actually, our system works just fine. To me, indeed to most Brits, it is America that needs to start figuring things out that we learned a long time ago - like on healthcare, invading Afghanistan, torture for a start.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 I will skip the Afghanistan and torture comments. Having been there myself I must resis the urge to make fun of the British forces. I also told you that I agrees the ideas were british. However, we were the first to adopt them in a form of government. We chose Locke and you chose Reausseau. Get over it. British system works fine? Whose the world super power? Oh, thats us. Comparitivly speaking you lose on all accounts.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 Well, mate, we WERE the world's superpower, and if you knew anything about history, you would know that we have shaped the world more than any other nation on the planet.

Superpowers are not permanent, they come and go, and America is no different; don't delude yourself. All superpowers decline. Pax Romana, Pax Britannica, now Pax Americana. Ask any historian; Britain was the world's superpower, from 1815-1945.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 I agree with everything stated here. However, I still dont understand how you can call healthcare a right if it must be granted by the government. Thats the response I'm looking foward to.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 Of course healthcare is an intrinsic right.

It is funded by the govenment, and it is electorally impossible for them to take it away. It is (in theory) possible for them to take away the NHS, in the same way that it is (in theory) possible for the United States to vote to scrap the Bill of Rights.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 If thats the case I have a right to every service known to man at my neighbors expense so as long as the majority of the people vote for it. Therefore, rights are not unaleinable, nor are they self evident, but determinant of whomever is in power at any given time. Therefore, there are no such things as rights. This is the antithisis of Locke and concurrent with the teachings Marx. Rights cannot be taken nor granted by a government. On the merits your arguement is a failure.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 If that's the case, then Locke IS wrong. I personally DO NOT think he was wrong, just thinking along the lines of the government of the time.

But the chances of a British government, of any stripe, choosing to scrap the NHS are the same as the states ratifying the repeal of the Bill of Rights - that's how popular it is. I think Tony Benn put it best. If a government tried to get rid of the NHS, "there'd be a revolution."

Benn's interview:

watch?v=9LnY-jy_cE0

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 Read Lockes final chapter in his second treatise. It gives instructions of what to do if government failes to recognise your natural rights and it was heavely plagiarized in the Declaration of Independence. I wont scold you for failing to know the works of Locke. He is symbolically refered to here as "the forgotten founding father." However, those who place equality before liberty will get neither; those who place liberty before equality will have a great deal of both.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 Now that's where I have a problem; universal healthcare, by no possible stretch of the imagination, infringes upon the liberty of the people.

I'll say it again - average tax bands in the UK and the US are nearly identical.

In actual fact, the US government spends more on healthcare as a percentage of GDP than the UK - in the UK, the NHS costs over 10% of our GDP, in the US it costs over 16%.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 49%of Americans dont pay taxes. 51%pick up the slack for the other 49%.You would have me be a slave, providing a service to another without any benefit to myself?& if you want to know why US healthcare is so expensive its because once government subsidizes you and grants you a monopoly you can be an inefficient as you want. So whats the fix they want for screwing up healthcare? More of the same government crap that got us here. no thanks! But this is off topic. Its not a right.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 All I can say is that if the British people would fight a revolution tomorrow to save the NHS, in the same way that the American people rebelled in opposition to taxes, then I would say it is a right.

If we were to write ourselves a Constitution tomorrow, healthcare would be somewhere near the top.

I mean come on - "LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" - isn't life technically preserved by healthcare?

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 We fought a revolution over taxation without representation. Not taxation alone. You have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Not life at the expense of your neighbors liberty for the guarentee of your own happiness.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 You still haven't explained how paying for a neighbour's healthcare infringes liberty.

I personally am HAPPY that I do pay for my neighbour's healthcare.

If we all pay the same taxes, then what difference does it make if they go to helping others or goes elsewhere?

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 You dont know how me working to pay for a service to another with no benefit to myself is a violation of individual liberty? Thats part time slavery. And if government can take some of your rights away to pay for an unearned privilage to another they can take all of them away. And what does Thomase Jefferson say when government becomes destructive of these ends?

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 My point is you pay taxes ANYWAY, and what's more you probably pay the same as me.

So who cares if it goes to help people? Infact, I WANT it to go to help people.

I'd rather that than supercarriers or 5th gen fighters.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 No, you want to vote my money away from me to help whomever the government descides needs helping (always political cronies and bribes).I want to keep my money & if I'm feeling charitable I will give it to someone in my neighborhood who needs it & I know its being spent responsably while helping my community. Of course, by your answer you could care less where the government puts it and in my small town that means they redistribute it to urban areas (more voters)at our expense.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 Attlee had something to say about that:

"If a rich man wants to help the poor, he should pay his taxes gladly, not dole out money at a whim"

You see, essentially, we all pay taxes - there is no getting away from that fact. I am not in favour of tax rises, but I am in favour of spending that money where it needs to be spent.

You are aware that under the NHS, there is a surgery in even the smallest village. There's actually a show called 'Doc Martin' about one.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 Atlee was a tyrant who beleived that its ok to redistribute individual liberty to offer an unearned privilage on the basis of class. He was a socialist at the time the labor party added the aboloshment of private property on their party platform. If Atlee put a gun to my face, took my second car, & gave it to a man that has none, is he a theif? Sure he is and he would go to jail. If Atlee gets the government to do it for him is the government any less of a theif? No kidding huh?

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 That is utter rubbish. Attlee was a great man who stood for what our country believed in after the war. He began the process of decolonisation, implemented the Welfare State, and hell, he knew what he was doing.

Attlee never damaged anybody's liberty. Even the nationalisations he presided over were more than well compensated.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 You cannot have individual liberty and government granted privilages at the same time. Its impossible and it assumes everyone is the same from cradle to grave in every aspect without reward for sucess. You either have individual liberty or "collective liberty." you cannot have both. Look up (negative liberty vs. positive liberty) on youtube. Read Isaiah Berlins "Proper Study of Mankind" or his sppech on the "Two Concepts of Liberty. Until then your intellectually inadequate.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 pfft, intellectually inadequate, what a joke. I'm not even going to tell you where I studied.

Of course, when the American government provides free education, keeps the street clean, protects the economy, that, of course is an affront to liberty.

I always have and always will laugh in the face of people who tell me that socialism is an affront to liberty. In case you hadn't noticed, every Western nation runs on a fusion of captialism and socailism - even US.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 I suppose thats why you cant match my points blow for blow and stick to the actual topic. You run away from what you cant explain and you cant explain how healthcarem a good/service is a right. Because its plain, its simple, and universially true that governments cannot grant rights. When you add theft to the mix backed by force you lose liberty. If you charge me for a service to someone else thats redistributing my liberty to give someone a privilage. ie. temporary slavery.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 We've been over this.

Healthcare is a right in the UK because the people consider it to be a right, alongside freedom of speech, assembly, habeus corpus and all that.

Imagine a scenario in which the US government is attempting to scrap the Bill of Rights. What is happening? There are people on the streets, aren't there? They are screaming for the heads of the tyrants, right?

Now imagine the UK where the NHS is about to be abolished.

There is no difference.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 So rights arent universal, they arent inaleinable, and they arent self evident by your methodology. If government is the granter of rights they can take them away as well. & in order to grant a nonexistant privilage like healthcare you must ask those who pay taxes to forfit their rights as you admitted in your last post. There is a difference between people demanding their rights that we all enjoy and people demanding that I pay for their healthcare.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 Do you consider paying taxes an affront to your rights? Never heard of death and taxes?

Let me make this simple for you - The government does not 'grant' me rights, I force the government to recognise them. With First Past the Post, the British people have the government on a string at the end of their finger. Another Benn quote: "When the British people speak everyone, including members of Parliament, should tremble before their decision."

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 I pay taxes for those essential governmental services that defend all of our rights generally. Thats not theft.

No British citizen can force his government to abide by their rights. You see, you have a gun problem. But if you want a British reference read John Lockes final chapter in his second treatesie.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 If you pay your taxes, don't you want to see something being done with them?

I want to see people being helped. I want my money's worth.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 The 5th Amendment's takings clause: Private property shall not be taken for a public use, without just compensation. I should be compensated by a service that benefits me in the name of defending our individual liberty. Anything else should be up to my individual descression and up to my state and local politics. Most of us dont mind being taxes for some services to help locally. We just dont like the federal government using it to comform us to their will.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 Now, you see, in that clause, I see justification for nationalisation. Indeed, to me, that seems to justify completely what I considered the more extreme/extravagant economic policies of the Attlee government.

And healthcare is a devolved matter in the UK - ie it is in the hands of the localities such as the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments (like the state legislatures in the US). So the NHS is managed locally.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 Did "Maggie" disolve heathcare to those localities or has it always been that way?

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 The devolved parliaments (excluding Northern Ireland) were established under Blair following referendums. Healthcare was placed in their hands.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 That was when Blair was PM when healthcare was decentralized?

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 Yes, it was under Blair.

The essential structure and government requirements remained the same - universal, unlimited, etc. The systems remain closely integrated; for example, if you're Scottish you can be treated for free in England and vice versa. And the funding (I believe) still comes from central government.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 Socialists generally hate decentralization because it allows for competition, and competition allowes for economic freedom, and economic freedom allows for the most socialized areas to fail miserably. Though, I'm sure the central government has a tight grip on it.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 We put the government in place back in 1651, lopping off the head of Charles I, no less. Never since has a government infringed upon our rights.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 Are you saying that Cromwell didnt infringe on anyones liberty? Well, it seems that I have wasted my time with someone who knows less about his own history than an American who doesent live in his country. That statement of yours surely implies that I am wasting my time and I will follow suit by ignoring the fruitcake thats speaking to me.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 Ok, I'll give you that Cromwell as the Lord Protector did some pretty tyranical things, although not so much in England.

But my point is that the English Civil War established the power of Parliament, which has resulted in the power being transferred into the hands of the people. It restrained the monarchy and it paved the way for the future, in which we brought good law, liberty and and justice all over the world.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 There is little doubt from any serious historian that the British Enlightenment and the actions that led to the magna carta and beyond set the example for the world. However, yall abandoned the ideas of your own John Locke for a Frenchman by the name of Rousseau. Wich, of course, I find historically ironic. America is more Locke oriented.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 Well, from what I recall, Rousseau believed that democracy was only possible in very small states.

We sure devoted ourselves to proving him wrong.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 You are a small state ..... minus the enormous amount of colonia rule throughout history. But thats neither here nor there. You beleive in positive liberty and I beleive in negative liberty. You think that goods and services are rights and I dont. Your stuck with universal healthcare and we receive your wealthy citizens who want quality care in the unites states. You computer is probaly plugged in and my laptop is low on batteries. hint hint.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 What the hell, have you never heard of Harley Street? THAT's where all our really wealthy patients go, not America.

Let's end here, then.

But let's get one thing straight - I believe in freedom of the individual. And universal healthcare doesn't undermine this. Strange how only Americans seem to think it does.

[Charlie12241]

@BasilFawlty4444 We are told socialism is evil and universal healthcare is as evil as socialism.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@Charlie12241 Well, I'm afraid that's a fallacy. Universal healthcare is a great force for good.

[Charlie12241]

@BasilFawlty4444 I know it is, most Americans don't.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 And we aren't a small state.

There's 60-70 million of us. And 150 million worldwide.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982

"it assumes everyone is the same from cradle to grave in every aspect without reward for sucess" - rubbish.

I'm not a full on socialist, I believe in reward from the fruits of labour. Even complete socialists believe in rewarding people for their achievements.

I am a free person. I can say right now that David Cameron is a twat and the Queen should be removed, but nobody could touch me. We have our freedom, just like you. And we also have the Welfare State.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 To assume that no individual liberty is lossed by taking money away from one man and giving an artificial privilage to another is not a loss of liberty, is to assume that we are all the same. And why work if the government gives you everything you need? In the end healthcare is not a right. Rights are not granted by a government at the expense of the rights of others. Your born with rights ie speech, association, religion etc etc . You are certainly not born with healthcare.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 I was born with healthcare. And I will die with healthcare. I fact, I was concieved with healthcare, and I have the ultrasounds to prove it.

"Cradle to the grave," the policy of the NHS.

In actual fact, when I was born, I had neither speech, association, nor religion. But I did have healthcare.

Northwick Park Hospital Maternity Ward.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 We British are not strong believers in rugged individualism. I personally consider it to be a great evil. I really don't care that my taxes go to help others, and tbh I was a shocked by your comment "providing a service to another without any benefit to myself," I mean ok, yes you are paying for the treatment of diseases you probably won't get, but how would you feel if you DID fall ill?

To me, the NHS is good socialism. To me, Attlee and Bevan are heroes.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 Well do you want to talk about rights or feelings? Socialists appeal to emotion. Champions of liberty appeal to fact. Besides, we really arent an individualistic society. Were a familial society. Thats until the government gives us all of our goodies for free at the expense of another drawing us away from family reliance.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 Socialism never resulted in loss of liberty, bad people resulted in loss of liberty.

Too often the good socialists, who upheld free and democratic values are forgotten. Socialists like Clement Attlee and Nye Bevan. Attlee was recently voted our best Prime Minister in a poll of academics, but few people remember him off the top of their heads.

Watch this video by poltical commentator Andrew Marr:

watch?v=mCrHlAemaFw

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 Socialism is by definition forfitting your individual liberties &responsibilities for collective security and guarenteed outcome. Why are there so many socialist thugs in the world?Well, its hard to keep a man working when he knows he can survive without it.& a system built upon class warfare/envy doesent exactly tolerate those who benefit from society but contribute nothing to it.So they either fail or strip the individual of all rights in the effort to force him to contribute.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 Socialism is about bringing the means of production, distribution and exchange into the community.

British socialism wasn't cooked up in a day, you know. The Welfare State was the result of the Beveridge Report, which determined to destroy the 5 evils of British society - squalor, ignorance, want, idleness and disease. The man behind it, Lord Beveridge, said in order to get people to seek employment, they must only be given enough to survive, not to be happy.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 squalor, ignorance want, idleness, and diseas? In otherwords you want to protect the individual from himself and against his better judgement as judged by a bunch of socialist eleits in government. I like Isah Berlin better. Mr. Beveridge (I call no man "Lord") is yet another labor party leader who's platform advocated for the abolishment of private property.If the state gives you everything you need to survive why work? And how do you combat idleness?Do you use threat or force?

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 You work, you advance, you invent to pursue happiness. I think that's one of the few values that our nations agree on. No threat or force. Not even the American govement would allow it's people to starve in the street.

And btw, Lords are no longer hereditary. They are appointed on merit and they sit in the House of Lords. After being made a Lord, 'Mr' is no longer their title.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 You working for luxuary at the expense of those who earned it? You dont see a conflict of liberty here? Is it my job to ensure that you can pursue happiness at the expense of my persuit of happiness? When you steal from me to give my money to someone else in the form of a good or service that either I already have or do not require, its is theft. And no one is letting anyone starve in the street. Americas "poor" almost have a higher standard of living than your middle class.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 Detroit is a shining example of the welfare state on steroids. Not a single conservative elected there for the past 70 years and all the major slums are represented simularly. And yes, the Heritage Foundation did a study on the poor in America and found that our poor enjoy a higher standard of living then the middle class of europe. You need to quit with the contradictions and start arguing. Have you ever seen Montey Pythins Arguement Clinic Sketch? Reminds me of you.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 So it's about Europe, not Britain. You are forgetting that half of Europe is still recovering from the Soviets. We are fully aware that Eastern Europe is poverty stricken, and economically dead. I know because thousands of Eastern Europeans have come over here to work.

Thus, this clearly isn't an accurate portrayal of Britain. I consider my lifestyle to be rather nice, actually.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 My God, you really arent reading before you post are you? Read what I said about Britian and then read what I said about Europe. Oh, and how did that socialism work out for eastern europe, heh, heh? I know, I know, I know the excuse. "They didnt do it right."

Almost everyone consideres their lifestyle somewhat nice and most people, whether they are or they arent, think their middle class.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 No, they weren't socialists, they were Stalinists.

The British people have never been 'proper' socialists in the full sense of the word, indeed, on a social level, we are very conservative in many areas (apart from creationism, which we have no time for).

Attlee himself was hugely opposed to full Communism. He remarked that "Russian Communism is the illegitimate child of Karl Marx and Catherine the Great."

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 No it was socialism. Communism was never acheived as planned. Go figure. I dont think anyone has time for creationism with respect to universal morality in governance.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 It was socialism according to Marx - the state between capitalism and socialism.

Are you honestly telling me that Britain is like Eastern Europe? As I said, we were never 'real' socialists. We just acknowledge the fusion of capitalism and socialism upon which all of the Western World runs.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 It is the burden of the rich, in return for recieving a portion of our wealth, to fund the Welfare State.

All rich people, all corporations and buisnesses have tapped into the funds of the average working man. It is only fair that in return, they should pay their fair share of taxation.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 Translation: "Thats the punishment for the rich for recieving a portion of whats rightfully OURS to fund those who refuse to put in the hard work to get where they did." For receiving "our" wealth? If you make a dollar it belongs to you and if they do it, its theirs. They didnt force you to buy their stuff. & dont give me that lame corperate welfare arguement. Corporate welfare is just as wrong as individual welfare. No one stole your money and they dont owe you a thing.OK Marx?

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 I don't want to take away their wealth or their superior lifestyle. They will still have that after taxation. There will still be filthy rich and there will still be filthy poor.

And don't give me that rubbish about not forcing anyone to buy their goods. I suppose I should have starved, or not gotten a mortgage, then, huh? I suppose that the kids screaming for a Playstation or XBOX should be ignored, huh?

There is no choice, only neccessity.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 Is it the fault of the rich that they are poor? You want to cripple the un due wealth of the rich you should git rid of socialism where government privilaged businesses provide/supply the government services to the poor through political bribes and influience.

Starved? You made the choice not to become a farmer. Mortgage? You mad the choice not to save your money and buy a cheap house, or rent. Playstation? XBox? I suppose you think that should be a right too?

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 That's just it. If I lose my job, even if I lose my everything, I will be helped. Even if my family forsake me, I will not be left alone. I will not be happy with what I have; I will have no Playstation, for instance, but I will not starve, and I will have a roof over my head. I will be proped up, I will pick myself up, and I will start again.

This is the essential principle of the British Welfare State.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 What? Are you pulling at my heartstrings and empathetic nature? You see, I count on reason and not on emotion to make my case. In America we have a problem with welfare queens shooting out babies that grow up to mimick the queen that spawned them. Before welfare poor families stayed togather, children took care of their OWN parents and mom + pop had a vested interest in raising their children right, and people didnt have babies they couldent afford. Watch the Swipe Yo EBT video!

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 That's the way it is, mate.

I mean you sound a little like Glenn Beck.

Our system is not perfect, but it's home, as they say. Of course, some people abuse the system, but at the end of the day, who want's to be unhappy? The system sustains us, but in order to achieve happiness, you must pursue it yourself.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 Take out religion and an ignorance on Americas founding and I suppose you could make that comparison.

[pluto4847]

@LexNaturalis1982 I am against all Government intervention.

We all know healthcare is not a right, but I would like to go a little further on that.

Police protection is not a right.

Fire protection is also not a right.

Public libraries must all be abolished and turned into book stores.

And as for education, well public schools are failing, and I say its a complete waste. If you can't afford private education, you don't have a right to be educated.

So lets stop being slaves.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982 So tell me, do you choose whether or not you pay taxes.

Average tax bands in the UK and US are nearly identical.

And we have our rights. We elect Parliament and Parliament protects them. Remember, we British first came up with the concept of individual liberties and rights.

[LexNaturalis1982]

@BasilFawlty4444 Taxes as viewed by our founding fathers were supposed to go the the essential necessities of government that defend all of our liberties somewhat equally. And the UK defends rights? You cant both GRANT rights and defend them at the same time. If you grant a right in the name of one part of the population you MUST violate the liberties of the other part of the population to provide it. You cant abandon your own Locke and adopt Rousseau and expect individual liberty to exist.

[BasilFawlty4444]

@LexNaturalis1982

Individual liberty is the cornerstone of English Common Law, the standard to which almost all other nations follow, including 49 of the 50 US States.

Rights are not granted, they are guaranteed, intrinsic. Because of Parliamentary Sovereignty, which holds that "no person or body is recognised by the law of England as having a right to override or set aside the legislation of Parliament," no tyrant is able to infringe upon our rights.

[aaron54880]

@Foreverclever87 That is correct. People don't have a "right" to force others by threat of violence to "educate" them.

[somepointsofview]

Ray Steven's song "We the people" is great and says much about how many feel.

[drummer4life534]

think people. let people do what they want to do with themselves. and stay out of over peoples business. like you know whats right for them when you have ur own damn problems. peace

[drummer4life534]

yes so women have the right to have an abortion. its her own body and she'll do with it if she wishes. no body else has the right to tell her she cant do that. We already have overpopulation. so who better should care then your own self. lets see if a antiabortionist gets raped and thus pregnant. She'll think about how that guy raped her in every detail everytime she looks at her kid. and even if she puts it up for adoption the adoptee will know its a rape baby. so why would anyone adopt it.

[Mauhadeeb28]

You have terrible reasoning on the abortion topic.

[Mauhadeeb28]

Judge is a pimp.

[bbburton]

Does that make you a whore? Or just a pussy?

[Mauhadeeb28]

Are you angry at me for understanding that what he is saying is right, or are you angry at yourself and attempting to obtain happiness through comment trolling?

[bbburton]

Oh, I didn't know that 'pimp' has a new meaning; support for Judge Napolitano. Why don't you try using words with meanings that everyone understands, or is this just an inside lexicon only meant for you?

[Mauhadeeb28]

If you have been alive in America at any time from the 70's till now you most likely no what this means. It is called slang and it makes total sense. It is a good thing not a bad thing.

Also, I don't need to speak the way you would like me to speak. What Are you, a communist? Don't tread on me, fool.

[bbburton]

Love your English. Did you manage to acquire that in school, or were you raised on the street? I'll bet on the street. And you can speak any way you please, just don't expect anyone and everyone to understand your little isms, fool.

[Mauhadeeb28]

Nice come back. You can't hide your ignorance behind petty comments like that one. I wouldn't expect a "well-rounded" individual like yourself to have the ability to understand written grammar AND the spoken word.

[bbburton]

Still pretending you're an intellectual? Did you learn that on the street as well? I wouldn't expect you to be 'well rounded' or even 'well educated', considering your inability to articulate your thoughts with any degree of clarity. I do suppose your 'street' buddies might understand you, but I doubt it.

[Mauhadeeb28]

You do understand that you are coming off as stuck up, don't you? I do not pretend to be anything. The fact that you are arguing my credibility by calling me "street" shows yours inherent ignorance. All you have is name calling. That doesn't say much about your personality outside of the obvious i.e. a timid and weak individual who comment trolls for petty spelling errors.

I surely hope there is something else you are better at. Though I doubt there is, I hope you have a great new year. Good day

[bbburton]

And you try to come off as 'hip' and 'cool', when in fact your ignorant and a fool. I certainly wouldn't waste my time arguing credibility, since I've only pointed out your lexicon is misplaced, and therefore any point you try to make is pointless. Now you stir the pot with more nonsense, simply because you have no sense. You should try working on your own shortcomings instead of shoveling your pathetic shit elsewhere. But, I suspect you'll fall short there as well.

[Mauhadeeb28]

I fear you have come to the point in your life in which you believe insults and anger show ones true intellect. That is a sad road to travel, my friend. One you will sure travel alone for the rest of your life, should you keep this act up.

[bbburton]

How condescending of you. Perhaps you try to take the high road so as to avoid the excrement you dish out to others? Just as I predicted, more nonsense, more pointless rhetoric, and meaningless advise. I suspect you'll have another try at maintaining your 'better-than-you' BS. The test isn't how successful you are at one-ups-man-ship, but how well you present your ideas. So far you're batting zero.

[Mauhadeeb28]

What ideas? What rhetoric? I made a four word comment and you went ape shit over it.You are writing to me as if we are debating something when there was never anything to debate.

Again, you are obviously just trying to dick with me for laughs. There are plenty other things we could be doing with our time.

[bbburton]

And yet you spend your time defending yourself with more inane comments.

[Mauhadeeb28]

There you go again. Dude, you don't even need anyone to argue with. You could debate yourself!

[bbburton]

And you continue to repeat yourself. You must like to respond just to keep occupied.

[Mauhadeeb28]

As do you.

[bbburton]

And apparently you will continue to do so.

[Mauhadeeb28]

Yup. =0)