Freedom of religion is the law of the land. I would not ever want to restrict the religious freedom of anyone else. There are devout Christian women who would not want to be seen in a swimsuit in public. There is a verse in the New Testament that says that making another sin against their conscience in such matters is a sin in itself, for example if one believes it is wrong to eat such & such a food, you should not force them to do it.
Hey, could you give me the verse number for that? My mom (Christian) refuses to go out in public with me when I wear hijab, and she is always trying ways to get me to go out without it, but maybe if she reads that verse she'll lay off me a bit and just let me practice my religion the way that makes me feel close to God, insha'Allah. Thank you :)
Muslim woman can exercise. You think just b/c someone wears hijab(headscarf) they cant exercise? There are many different types of hijab that accomadate women in physical activities. :-)
Daniel: Not all "veils" cover a woman's face. There are different beliefs regarding this issue. I agree with you that no one should be forced to cover if they do not want to. However, if they voluntarily choose to cover their hair, or even their face, we must respect that.
"The more women veil the less men learn to behave as decent and civilized members of society," Mona Eltahawy said. Egypt is 2nd worst country globally for such harassments, only Afganistans Taliban influences in forcing women behind the veil rates worse! Increase in veiling clearly contributes to increases in sexual groping. The more covered up women are it now seems the more stimulating to men with low morals and self-control.
Mesopotamian societies after Sumerian times (2000yrs before Islam) began to impose the veil on noble women when in public. The first recorded instance of veiling for women is recorded in an Assyrian legal text in 13th century BC, restricting its use to noble women assuring certain basic protections but clearly emphasizing limits and inferiority and forbade the veil to prostitutes and common women. Early Greek texts have also spoken of veiling practiced among the Persian elite.
good info. I assume men were less educated in those days and more likely unable to restrain their sexual urges. Why in the world or where in the world would veils be required in modern day.
Egyptian Center for Women's Rights says harassment in Egypt's a virtual certainty. 98% of foreign, and 83% of Egyptian women said they had been sexually harassed! Survey found women in hijab were most frequent targets of unwanted comments and touching 72% of those who described incidents of harassment said they were veiled at the time.
"The more women veil the less men learn to behave as decent and civilized members of society," Mona Eltahawy said. Egypt is 2nd worst country globally for such harassments, only Afganistans Taliban influences in forcing women behind the veil rates worse! Increase in veiling clearly contributes to increases in sexual groping. The more covered up women are it now seems the more stimulating to men with low morals and self-control.
Totally true, I think most muslims, especially unmmaried young man are sexually frustrated since they can't have a girlfriend(officially) they have to go to prostitute wich gives them a bad view of women en general. Imagine when they go on a porno site, they must become crazy and then when they see an uncovered women...
Naaz Shah of Christchurch said many Muslim women had no opportunities to exercise and were putting on weight as a result, the Press newspaper reported today.
"They become medically unfit. Their health is affected and they're quite depressed," she said
Hello? Isn't that everyone's excuse (no opportunity to excercise) and most people i know are on anti-depressants. One in 3 people in the US are obese and their aren't that many muslim women in the US to blame those statistics on. How does "Naaz" explain that? And maybe if they let veiled women in the public pools they could get into shape.
the difference is that USA women have the chance to go exercise..the poor muslim women have no choice but NOT to excercise because they can not dress comfortably for activity
I'm a Muslim women, and I can exercise fully covered, no problem. If I want to go swimming I just jump in with all my clothes on, no big deal. I live in the USA too. Muslim women in countries like Kuwait, Saudi, etc do have an easier time though because there are private exercise places and pools just for women. They cater to women's needs there more because they understand that women want to maintain their modesty.
Most of the Muslim women I know are very skinny actually. One sister from Saudi, who has two daughters, gave me some skirts cause they were too big for her, and I who have grown up in the USA, run 5K's and completed a marathon, and not had any children yet, couldn't fit in them. Also, if you got Arabic channels, then you could see the Arab version of Biggest Loser (They call it Biggest Winner) which includes hijabi women.
There is no islamic intolerance, there is only arabic intolerance. Muslims have to seperate these 2 things... People have to become aware of ''veil is not an obligatory thing in islam, it's only traditional desert arabic clothes!''
Less than 12% of Muslims are Arab, and most Muslims agree the veil is required, although there's some difference in opinion over what kind and what areas are to be covered. Besides, the veil is not just traditional desert arabic clothes, you can find different manifestations of the veil in just about every religion. It's quite natural to believe that if God said that women should cover in earlier religions, it would be a continuing trend.
if you want to come live in our country fine, but don't come over here and start demanding changes to our way of life. If it bothers you that bad go live in an Islamic state where no one will think your weird for wearing a sack over your head. If you don't want to do that then please integrate because your just creating division by demanding and crying for special treatment all the time. and I'm quickly losing sympathy
In Canada we don't have that problem,parents can watch from the sidelines in clothes and watch their children.The last comment was pretty ignorant,this has nothing to do outlandish demands.Its quite simple to grasp actually.Its the mothers right her choice to cover herself.
It seems to me that you should go and inform yourself about islam and read books before you make any kind of remarks.You've made yourself look like an idiot because well you have no idea what you are saying. A person with integrity always thinks before they speak, and clearly you are lacking BIG TIME
In Islamic states you are beaten if you don't wear the hijab. Muslim women around the world are being beaten and stoned to death, forced into marriages, raped and mutilated. why don't you fight for some REAL muslim women's rights. the veil is a symbol of oppression. and now women come here to escape those types of abuses and whats the first thing they do? cry about their 'right' to wear a veil
kelisw...have visited any muslim country?have been to saudi arabia or malaysia perhaps?the problem with people like you is that you are just repeating the bigotry of the media.i guess you did not even visited the nearest mosque in your area?so what makes you think you are right bigot?...
LIAR!!!!!!! it's not true!!!!! i live in a muslim country and i know many people who live in muslim countries.....there's no opression in that!! it's a matter of convinction!! first off, sex before marriage is prohibited, which means that raping is a CRIME!! and beating...we are even prohibited from beating an animal!! so we cannot beat a human being!!!!!!!! dumb ass you are!!!
In a great deal of muslim countries women are arrested for not wearing the hijab. Also in a lot of muslim countries men r not punished for rape, they either have to marry the victim or the victim is punished! Do not deny this. Why don't you watch some of the honor killings on YOUtube with muslim men video taping them on their cell phone
Maybe she wants to be recognized as a muslim because she's proud. Maybe she feels this is what God wants. Maybe she feels free when she wears it because she won't be judged or objectified. Women in Western countries undergo plastic surgery (mutiliation) for men. Its difficut to hold a man accountable for violent acts against women in the US (OJ,KOBY). Women are 2nd class citizens all over. It's hard to see when you take part in the derogation w/out realizing it.
Regarding your statement "watch some of the honor killings on YOUtube with muslim men video taping them on their cell phone," you can see men of mostly western countries taking advantage of women all over the internet. Rather than being killed, they are being terrilby abused.
PLEASE! I was going to hold my tongue on ur last comment but ur thinking is pale in comparision. R u actually goin to compare the actions of some pigish western man to the brutal, criminal, sick mind of "men" that beat and kill a 17 year old girl on the street for "suspected sex before marraige"?
If a western man was terribly abusing a women and it was posted on YOUtube..there would be serious consquences.. u see in MY country when a man is found guilty of beating a women..he goes to jail. Women do go get "multilated" for a man in western countries! They have the option to have plastic surgery if THEY want to make THEMSelves feel better about.
There are also private pools, beaches, and exercise facilities. I have some friends who are here (in the US) from Saudi, and they miss their private exercise facilities. This country just doesn't cater to modest women as much.
well im muslim and i think that they are over reakting, all people should wear swimming cloths in a pool area what if la'sumahalah her kids drownd and she is the only person around
Kybeline.. NO WOMAN WHO ARE SHAMEFULL TO ALL WOMANS IN THE WORLD ARE .. WOMAN LIKE HORES , PROSTITUT, WOMAN WHO IS DRESSING IN A 5 YEAR OLD CLOTHE AND ECT.. NOT WOMAN WHO DEMANS RESPECT FOR THE WOMANS BODY BY COVERING IT :)
there is a bigger picture here that we, americans, have to consider and be watchful of: how far do we have to bend our rules, our way of life to accomodate this kind of islamic intolerance? europe caved in to many islamists' demands and now the islamists wanted more. be watchful of these kinds of islamic tactics of domination.
Europe is spelled with a capital E, most of the time. And in France, the young girls in elemenary schools were prohibited from wearing the veil. The French Contitution requires secular schools. The US Constitution guarantees the freedom to practice religion, and free expression. indoUSA, may you should emmigrate to France.
I think its ok that she was not allowed. Parents have to be able to take care of their children, while swiming. What if one of her children gets drown? She cant resque them. Besides, I think that every woman who wears such a thing is an offend to all other women of the world.
I personally do not believe in the interpretation of the Quran that requires women to cover their head. However, I respect such beliefs even if they differ from mine. This, after all, is really an issue of respect.
Yes I am Muslim and I have serious doubts about whether the Hijab is obligatory. Even if it is obligatory, I am not sure we have a clear prescription of what form it should be. Every culture within the Muslim world has interpreted differently. And these customary interpretations may well be ok.
Having said all of that, I respect every interpretation that is different than my own. And I will defend anyone with a sincere belief that is different from mine, whether or not they are Muslim.
I actually defend the right to veil. I am not a Mufti (and I suspect, neither are you). If you (or your Mufti) are claiming that your particular interpretation is the absolute truth, then there is no point in any exchange of ideas. Scholars differ on what to cover and what to cover with. For example, Indonesian muslims do it differently from Saudis based on different scholarly interpretations. The issue is far from clear cut.
I agree with the mom on this one, but the City's response was stupid. If you are a parent, you shouldn't be required to wear a swim suit. I don't want to wear one if I take my kids swimming, not because of any religious purpose, but because I look horrible in a swim suit!
Nice freedom Americans, screw you
MrHUM4N 2 years ago
Freedom of religion is the law of the land. I would not ever want to restrict the religious freedom of anyone else. There are devout Christian women who would not want to be seen in a swimsuit in public. There is a verse in the New Testament that says that making another sin against their conscience in such matters is a sin in itself, for example if one believes it is wrong to eat such & such a food, you should not force them to do it.
miraohira 4 years ago 3
Hey, could you give me the verse number for that? My mom (Christian) refuses to go out in public with me when I wear hijab, and she is always trying ways to get me to go out without it, but maybe if she reads that verse she'll lay off me a bit and just let me practice my religion the way that makes me feel close to God, insha'Allah. Thank you :)
Muslimah22307 3 years ago
Muslim woman can exercise. You think just b/c someone wears hijab(headscarf) they cant exercise? There are many different types of hijab that accomadate women in physical activities. :-)
Datkins86 4 years ago
Yes, the burka is the best to have sex, especially if your wife is ugly.
fredroypoulin 3 years ago
There's nothing written in any good book of man!
Even the bible or qua ran!
That woman must hide their smiles like sin,
from all! Bar a few, often, chosen for them.
danielnz1 4 years ago
Daniel: Not all "veils" cover a woman's face. There are different beliefs regarding this issue. I agree with you that no one should be forced to cover if they do not want to. However, if they voluntarily choose to cover their hair, or even their face, we must respect that.
kasaby 4 years ago
Show that smile ... if you can!
It's an important part in Nature's plan,
as smiles are crucial to this Human race!
They enhance communications ... face to face.
danielnz1 4 years ago
I hear what you're saying
But I don't agree
You may not like it
But my smile's just for me :)
Muslimah22307 3 years ago
"The more women veil the less men learn to behave as decent and civilized members of society," Mona Eltahawy said. Egypt is 2nd worst country globally for such harassments, only Afganistans Taliban influences in forcing women behind the veil rates worse! Increase in veiling clearly contributes to increases in sexual groping. The more covered up women are it now seems the more stimulating to men with low morals and self-control.
danielnz1 3 years ago
Mesopotamian societies after Sumerian times (2000yrs before Islam) began to impose the veil on noble women when in public. The first recorded instance of veiling for women is recorded in an Assyrian legal text in 13th century BC, restricting its use to noble women assuring certain basic protections but clearly emphasizing limits and inferiority and forbade the veil to prostitutes and common women. Early Greek texts have also spoken of veiling practiced among the Persian elite.
danielnz1 3 years ago
good info. I assume men were less educated in those days and more likely unable to restrain their sexual urges. Why in the world or where in the world would veils be required in modern day.
rnstuffy 3 years ago
There's nothing written in any book of man!
Even the bible or qua ran!
That woman must hide their smiles like sin,
from all! Bar a few, often, chosen for them.
danielnz1 3 years ago
Egyptian Center for Women's Rights says harassment in Egypt's a virtual certainty. 98% of foreign, and 83% of Egyptian women said they had been sexually harassed! Survey found women in hijab were most frequent targets of unwanted comments and touching 72% of those who described incidents of harassment said they were veiled at the time.
danielnz1 3 years ago
Are you saying that egytian men are sexual maniacs?
fredroypoulin 3 years ago
"The more women veil the less men learn to behave as decent and civilized members of society," Mona Eltahawy said. Egypt is 2nd worst country globally for such harassments, only Afganistans Taliban influences in forcing women behind the veil rates worse! Increase in veiling clearly contributes to increases in sexual groping. The more covered up women are it now seems the more stimulating to men with low morals and self-control.
danielnz1 3 years ago
Totally true, I think most muslims, especially unmmaried young man are sexually frustrated since they can't have a girlfriend(officially) they have to go to prostitute wich gives them a bad view of women en general. Imagine when they go on a porno site, they must become crazy and then when they see an uncovered women...
fredroypoulin 3 years ago
Naaz Shah of Christchurch said many Muslim women had no opportunities to exercise and were putting on weight as a result, the Press newspaper reported today.
"They become medically unfit. Their health is affected and they're quite depressed," she said
huskylovsme 4 years ago
Hello? Isn't that everyone's excuse (no opportunity to excercise) and most people i know are on anti-depressants. One in 3 people in the US are obese and their aren't that many muslim women in the US to blame those statistics on. How does "Naaz" explain that? And maybe if they let veiled women in the public pools they could get into shape.
conniecomputer 4 years ago 3
I was responding to huskylovsme
conniecomputer 4 years ago
the difference is that USA women have the chance to go exercise..the poor muslim women have no choice but NOT to excercise because they can not dress comfortably for activity
hsfs28 4 years ago
I'm a Muslim women, and I can exercise fully covered, no problem. If I want to go swimming I just jump in with all my clothes on, no big deal. I live in the USA too. Muslim women in countries like Kuwait, Saudi, etc do have an easier time though because there are private exercise places and pools just for women. They cater to women's needs there more because they understand that women want to maintain their modesty.
Muslimah22307 3 years ago
Oops, sorry, I meant Muslim woman. Insha'Allah, I don't have split-personality or anything to be muslim "women" just bad keyboard skills. ;)
Muslimah22307 3 years ago
Most of the Muslim women I know are very skinny actually. One sister from Saudi, who has two daughters, gave me some skirts cause they were too big for her, and I who have grown up in the USA, run 5K's and completed a marathon, and not had any children yet, couldn't fit in them. Also, if you got Arabic channels, then you could see the Arab version of Biggest Loser (They call it Biggest Winner) which includes hijabi women.
Muslimah22307 3 years ago
i'm going to America and wearing the hijab to get disciminated and i will get A HUGE FINE.....and become RICH from one minute to another...hahahah
that's why i love america..... a country of justice.... and "freedom"
AlphaMade 4 years ago
muslim
Bayern1900 5 years ago
Kelisw...I agree totally!!! Good on you!
metalbaby07 5 years ago
There is no islamic intolerance, there is only arabic intolerance. Muslims have to seperate these 2 things... People have to become aware of ''veil is not an obligatory thing in islam, it's only traditional desert arabic clothes!''
plexusonix 5 years ago
plexusonix said:
People have to become aware of ''veil is not an obligatory thing in islam, it's only traditional desert arabic clothes!''
you make me lough much thanks alot i had long workday.
next time please read islamic legeslation first you might see the life from deffrent angle.
in america they say they apply freedome and they try to spread it worldwide.
so the muslims try to live whith it there no more,
or the case is deffrent with muslims.
alhasoor 5 years ago
Less than 12% of Muslims are Arab, and most Muslims agree the veil is required, although there's some difference in opinion over what kind and what areas are to be covered. Besides, the veil is not just traditional desert arabic clothes, you can find different manifestations of the veil in just about every religion. It's quite natural to believe that if God said that women should cover in earlier religions, it would be a continuing trend.
Muslimah22307 3 years ago
if you want to come live in our country fine, but don't come over here and start demanding changes to our way of life. If it bothers you that bad go live in an Islamic state where no one will think your weird for wearing a sack over your head. If you don't want to do that then please integrate because your just creating division by demanding and crying for special treatment all the time. and I'm quickly losing sympathy
kelisw 5 years ago
In Canada we don't have that problem,parents can watch from the sidelines in clothes and watch their children.The last comment was pretty ignorant,this has nothing to do outlandish demands.Its quite simple to grasp actually.Its the mothers right her choice to cover herself.
sugarplum580 5 years ago
It seems to me that you should go and inform yourself about islam and read books before you make any kind of remarks.You've made yourself look like an idiot because well you have no idea what you are saying. A person with integrity always thinks before they speak, and clearly you are lacking BIG TIME
sugarplum580 5 years ago
In Islamic states you are beaten if you don't wear the hijab. Muslim women around the world are being beaten and stoned to death, forced into marriages, raped and mutilated. why don't you fight for some REAL muslim women's rights. the veil is a symbol of oppression. and now women come here to escape those types of abuses and whats the first thing they do? cry about their 'right' to wear a veil
kelisw 5 years ago
kelisw...have visited any muslim country?have been to saudi arabia or malaysia perhaps?the problem with people like you is that you are just repeating the bigotry of the media.i guess you did not even visited the nearest mosque in your area?so what makes you think you are right bigot?...
latesukiyaki 4 years ago
LIAR!!!!!!! it's not true!!!!! i live in a muslim country and i know many people who live in muslim countries.....there's no opression in that!! it's a matter of convinction!! first off, sex before marriage is prohibited, which means that raping is a CRIME!! and beating...we are even prohibited from beating an animal!! so we cannot beat a human being!!!!!!!! dumb ass you are!!!
AlphaMade 4 years ago
In a great deal of muslim countries women are arrested for not wearing the hijab. Also in a lot of muslim countries men r not punished for rape, they either have to marry the victim or the victim is punished! Do not deny this. Why don't you watch some of the honor killings on YOUtube with muslim men video taping them on their cell phone
Sonyw300Ijd 4 years ago
Maybe she wants to be recognized as a muslim because she's proud. Maybe she feels this is what God wants. Maybe she feels free when she wears it because she won't be judged or objectified. Women in Western countries undergo plastic surgery (mutiliation) for men. Its difficut to hold a man accountable for violent acts against women in the US (OJ,KOBY). Women are 2nd class citizens all over. It's hard to see when you take part in the derogation w/out realizing it.
conniecomputer 4 years ago
Regarding your statement "watch some of the honor killings on YOUtube with muslim men video taping them on their cell phone," you can see men of mostly western countries taking advantage of women all over the internet. Rather than being killed, they are being terrilby abused.
conniecomputer 4 years ago
PLEASE! I was going to hold my tongue on ur last comment but ur thinking is pale in comparision. R u actually goin to compare the actions of some pigish western man to the brutal, criminal, sick mind of "men" that beat and kill a 17 year old girl on the street for "suspected sex before marraige"?
Sonyw300Ijd 4 years ago
If a western man was terribly abusing a women and it was posted on YOUtube..there would be serious consquences.. u see in MY country when a man is found guilty of beating a women..he goes to jail. Women do go get "multilated" for a man in western countries! They have the option to have plastic surgery if THEY want to make THEMSelves feel better about.
Sonyw300Ijd 4 years ago
What do women wear in muslim countries when they want to go swimming? I am not being agruementive i am just curiuos
imagerypbyh 4 years ago
the veiled women swim with their veil, their full cloths! that's it!
AlphaMade 4 years ago
There are also private pools, beaches, and exercise facilities. I have some friends who are here (in the US) from Saudi, and they miss their private exercise facilities. This country just doesn't cater to modest women as much.
Muslimah22307 3 years ago
What about marital rape?
madhoyden 2 years ago 3
well im muslim and i think that they are over reakting, all people should wear swimming cloths in a pool area what if la'sumahalah her kids drownd and she is the only person around
Sabei0990 5 years ago
Kybeline.. NO WOMAN WHO ARE SHAMEFULL TO ALL WOMANS IN THE WORLD ARE .. WOMAN LIKE HORES , PROSTITUT, WOMAN WHO IS DRESSING IN A 5 YEAR OLD CLOTHE AND ECT.. NOT WOMAN WHO DEMANS RESPECT FOR THE WOMANS BODY BY COVERING IT :)
THANK YOU VERY MUCH
anwpep 5 years ago
there is a bigger picture here that we, americans, have to consider and be watchful of: how far do we have to bend our rules, our way of life to accomodate this kind of islamic intolerance? europe caved in to many islamists' demands and now the islamists wanted more. be watchful of these kinds of islamic tactics of domination.
indoUSA 5 years ago
Europe is spelled with a capital E, most of the time. And in France, the young girls in elemenary schools were prohibited from wearing the veil. The French Contitution requires secular schools. The US Constitution guarantees the freedom to practice religion, and free expression. indoUSA, may you should emmigrate to France.
RichardLWagner 4 years ago
I think its ok that she was not allowed. Parents have to be able to take care of their children, while swiming. What if one of her children gets drown? She cant resque them. Besides, I think that every woman who wears such a thing is an offend to all other women of the world.
Kybeline 5 years ago
Okay. I'm not a big proponent of the hijab but the mom is definitely right on this one. Was she wearing a hijab in a swimming pool? No.
iammonicalewinsky 5 years ago
But does that mean throw out the ones that do?
rarara01 5 years ago
I am really sick of all this....Religion and costitution...it is not meant to join...God help us ...if there is one!..D
djDOUBT 5 years ago
I personally do not believe in the interpretation of the Quran that requires women to cover their head. However, I respect such beliefs even if they differ from mine. This, after all, is really an issue of respect.
kasaby 5 years ago
are you saying your muslim, but dont believe the the veil is obligatory??
lightuponlight87 5 years ago
Yes I am Muslim and I have serious doubts about whether the Hijab is obligatory. Even if it is obligatory, I am not sure we have a clear prescription of what form it should be. Every culture within the Muslim world has interpreted differently. And these customary interpretations may well be ok.
Having said all of that, I respect every interpretation that is different than my own. And I will defend anyone with a sincere belief that is different from mine, whether or not they are Muslim.
kasaby 5 years ago
o yea, are you for the opinion that we dont have to pray five times a day either??
what an ignorant comment!!
go ahead, present your argument why you think its not obligatory, present me with ayahs, and hadieths.
ill show you ayahs and hadieths and well see how ignorant your "opinion" realy is.
& Allaah knows best
lightuponlight87 5 years ago
I actually defend the right to veil. I am not a Mufti (and I suspect, neither are you). If you (or your Mufti) are claiming that your particular interpretation is the absolute truth, then there is no point in any exchange of ideas. Scholars differ on what to cover and what to cover with. For example, Indonesian muslims do it differently from Saudis based on different scholarly interpretations. The issue is far from clear cut.
kasaby 5 years ago
I agree with the mom on this one, but the City's response was stupid. If you are a parent, you shouldn't be required to wear a swim suit. I don't want to wear one if I take my kids swimming, not because of any religious purpose, but because I look horrible in a swim suit!
ghk13287 5 years ago