well,you create by experience and that's very good!have you found in which frequencies resonates in a very good mandolin?If you dont want to talk about frequencies ,that's ok.But wheather you talk or not they exist..:) It would be very usefull for me to have a chart of measurements taken by tap tuning from an excellent and a very bad mandolin..Finally my theory is that the relationship of frequencies counts,not the frequencies themselves..
Yeah, I'm not sure what to say, I keep notes on the freq, but as to the relationship in the final instrument I'd say you are right. #23 freq.s were as follows, treble bar: 126.66 Bass bar: 126.70. as you can see they were very close. that was holding the instrument with my left hand around the thrid fret. If I put the peg head under my arm to kill the vibration of the neck the bass bar and treble bar were the same 420.82 Hz which is just short of a 4 octave A. (Please email me)
The back of #23 tapped an even 110 Hz which is a 2 octave A. I tuned the air chamber to a 4 octave D (293Hz) and this instrument was a hoss! #24 the treble bar was 123.45Hz and bass bar 123.34Hz, the back tapped a 206.60 G# (3rd octave) and the air chamber tuned to a 4 octave D. It was a good sounding instrument but no even close to #23.
#22 mandolin, treble bar, holding the instrument around the 3rd fret, was 231Hz (just short of a 3rd octave A#) and the bass bar 129 (very close to a 3rd octave C). the back tapped a 220 Hz (3rd octave A), air chamber tuned to the 4th octave D. Again a good sounding instrument but not as great as #23. After I started tuning the parts the out come was pretty much the same but #23 is by for the best. #16, my dads mandolin is the best I have ever built but sorry I didn't keep notes on it.
no problem!!my pleasure..i love lutherie and i would give my whole life to it...In our issue.Tap tuning is the key to a perfect sound.I try to simulate the conditions of assembling when tuning,just to be more accurate.What is your opinion of a well balannced soundboard,as far as the frequencies concern?target tunings i mean...well good night,waiting to hear from you tomorrow.
I agree, tap tuning assures a consistent sounding instrument. I have tried to tune the tone bars at the A# and Ab that Siminoff suggests but to be honest I had a hard time getting close to that for a long time. I started cutting the tone bars with the grain at a 45 degree angle instead of the true vertical grain cut. That made it much easier. Again, I think getting the plates thin enough to "move" and thick enough not to collapse is the secret to achieving a good sounding instrument.
i thought we could open a helpfull dialog to share our knowledge ,but as i see you are very ironical.then why do you upload videos?to make demonstration?by the way,i don't care if you have built 24 mandolins....you are stuck-headed!
I apologize for sounding stuck-headed. I guess I took your comment to my response to your question the wrong way. It appeared to me you were one of those individuals who ask questions, but don't want anything more than to start a debate. I love helping new builders, I do it because I remember how hard it was to find information on the subject when I started. I hope you will accept my apolgy and we can start a new dialogue.
i have studied Roger Siminoff and i disagree with your method of tuning in the air.With all respect ,you don't reply my qustion.How do you predict the change of tuning after gluing the soundboard to the body?tell me the % of change
I am not a mathematician nor a scientist and have no desire in figuring out the % of change after gluing the instrument together. I have built 24 mandolins and I know what it takes to make it sound fantastic! If you want to debate the issue you need to find another outlet. By the way, I don't care if you disagree.
In short, it insures you end up with a very resonate instrument with great tonal qualities. By tuning each part, you are really making sure the parts are thin enough to operate properly. Basically all any string instrument is, is, an air pump, so all the parts need to be able to move freely. (Relatively speaking.)
well,you create by experience and that's very good!have you found in which frequencies resonates in a very good mandolin?If you dont want to talk about frequencies ,that's ok.But wheather you talk or not they exist..:) It would be very usefull for me to have a chart of measurements taken by tap tuning from an excellent and a very bad mandolin..Finally my theory is that the relationship of frequencies counts,not the frequencies themselves..
Take care ,Dimitris
dimitheodoro 2 years ago
Yeah, I'm not sure what to say, I keep notes on the freq, but as to the relationship in the final instrument I'd say you are right. #23 freq.s were as follows, treble bar: 126.66 Bass bar: 126.70. as you can see they were very close. that was holding the instrument with my left hand around the thrid fret. If I put the peg head under my arm to kill the vibration of the neck the bass bar and treble bar were the same 420.82 Hz which is just short of a 4 octave A. (Please email me)
sheppard686 2 years ago
please check your email
cheers!
dimitheodoro 2 years ago
that's my point.....Different vibration in different situations.But what counts is the vibration on glued body..how can we predict them?
dimitheodoro 2 years ago
The back of #23 tapped an even 110 Hz which is a 2 octave A. I tuned the air chamber to a 4 octave D (293Hz) and this instrument was a hoss! #24 the treble bar was 123.45Hz and bass bar 123.34Hz, the back tapped a 206.60 G# (3rd octave) and the air chamber tuned to a 4 octave D. It was a good sounding instrument but no even close to #23.
sheppard686 2 years ago
110 Hz is very different from #22 which is 220 Hz.I guess that is more bass in sound.anyway thaks for those usefull info!!
dimitheodoro 2 years ago
#22 mandolin, treble bar, holding the instrument around the 3rd fret, was 231Hz (just short of a 3rd octave A#) and the bass bar 129 (very close to a 3rd octave C). the back tapped a 220 Hz (3rd octave A), air chamber tuned to the 4th octave D. Again a good sounding instrument but not as great as #23. After I started tuning the parts the out come was pretty much the same but #23 is by for the best. #16, my dads mandolin is the best I have ever built but sorry I didn't keep notes on it.
sheppard686 2 years ago
no problem!!my pleasure..i love lutherie and i would give my whole life to it...In our issue.Tap tuning is the key to a perfect sound.I try to simulate the conditions of assembling when tuning,just to be more accurate.What is your opinion of a well balannced soundboard,as far as the frequencies concern?target tunings i mean...well good night,waiting to hear from you tomorrow.
dimitheodoro 2 years ago
I agree, tap tuning assures a consistent sounding instrument. I have tried to tune the tone bars at the A# and Ab that Siminoff suggests but to be honest I had a hard time getting close to that for a long time. I started cutting the tone bars with the grain at a 45 degree angle instead of the true vertical grain cut. That made it much easier. Again, I think getting the plates thin enough to "move" and thick enough not to collapse is the secret to achieving a good sounding instrument.
sheppard686 2 years ago
i thought we could open a helpfull dialog to share our knowledge ,but as i see you are very ironical.then why do you upload videos?to make demonstration?by the way,i don't care if you have built 24 mandolins....you are stuck-headed!
dimitheodoro 2 years ago
I apologize for sounding stuck-headed. I guess I took your comment to my response to your question the wrong way. It appeared to me you were one of those individuals who ask questions, but don't want anything more than to start a debate. I love helping new builders, I do it because I remember how hard it was to find information on the subject when I started. I hope you will accept my apolgy and we can start a new dialogue.
Darrell
sheppard686 2 years ago
i have studied Roger Siminoff and i disagree with your method of tuning in the air.With all respect ,you don't reply my qustion.How do you predict the change of tuning after gluing the soundboard to the body?tell me the % of change
dimitheodoro 2 years ago
I am not a mathematician nor a scientist and have no desire in figuring out the % of change after gluing the instrument together. I have built 24 mandolins and I know what it takes to make it sound fantastic! If you want to debate the issue you need to find another outlet. By the way, I don't care if you disagree.
sheppard686 2 years ago
what is the purpose of tuning it before assembling,?the tuning changes after assembling the whole body...
dimitheodoro 2 years ago
In short, it insures you end up with a very resonate instrument with great tonal qualities. By tuning each part, you are really making sure the parts are thin enough to operate properly. Basically all any string instrument is, is, an air pump, so all the parts need to be able to move freely. (Relatively speaking.)
sheppard686 2 years ago
thank you, this is interesting
mandohat 2 years ago