50,000 American soldiers have succumbed to "Gulf War Syndrome" as a result of being deliberately exposed to neurological/radiological-toxins by the U.S. govt. (or what passes for it). As for the dispensation of Americans who participated in the slaughter over there: it's of paramount importance that they be tried, adjudicated & summarily executed, as prescribed by the citizen-juries of Iraq.
Obama has never released a birth certificate, he only released a certification of live birth, with no hospital, no doctor,no witnesses and NO PROOF OF WHERE HE WAS BORN. Obama is not the legal President, but Dems don't mind, as long as they can get away with it.
@AceofDiamonds0 he has hidden the truth from us all for so long that any thing that he brings to us (after 2 million dallors ) will obviously be a lie likeing him has nothing to do with the truth it is the fact that he in my opinion has been in this country claiming to be something that he is not , a citizen born american , lier lier lier
@arrrogantlyignorant look if you want to continue to blind yourself with a lie then go ahead , i only know that i will not waste my time with you , and if you haven't read any of the facts about the usurper in chief the i would suggest that you do a little research on your own ,as i know that you won't believe any thing that i say
@arrrogantlyignorant you seem to be the only one that doesn't know any thing about it , i mean its all over the internet just keep watching you'll see . and by the way you wouldn't believe me any way just a hint , american center for law and justice . go fish .
You made a very specific claim ($2 million). If it was real, you would have no problem citing where you got it, which of course, you can't... because you made it up.
If "its all over the internet", simple... post up or pm a link. Easy enough.
You accused the President of being a "lier lier lier"
@arrrogantlyignorant isn't it funny you understood what lier ment , so what is the problem . and i don' t understand , i gave you a place to go USJF.COM . THE PROBLEM WITH YOU IS THAT YOU ARE IN DENIAL . OR DID I SPELL THAT WRONG . and no you are doing the worst thing and that is lieing to yourself . and i do understand that you are a socialist , and believe me , that makes you a communist too .
How many times did I ask you? And how many times did you evade citing evidence that supports your claim? 4 or 5 times now? Wouldn't it be easier to simply put the evidence here, rather than give me the run around.
Btw, its "lying" not "lieing".
"you are a socialist , and believe me , that makes you a communist"
Obviously, you have NO idea what either of those words mean. When you use them interchangeably like that, it only personifies your stupidity.
@arrrogantlyignorant i gave your dumb ass the answer , but i can see that all you want to do is argue , and by the way you are the stupid one because there is really no differance between a socialist or a communist. and this is the second time you have changed the spelling of lier lieing to lying . what the hell . just keep sending your dumb ass stuff because you are the one that is showing their stupidity .
@arrrogantlyignorant man you really are an idiot , i give you an answer and what do you do , exactly what i knew that you would , o well stupid is as stupid does .
COLB is abstract from certificate on file. Parents could be birth parents or adoptive parents. Dr. Fukino's statement page 76 of "Manchurian President" tips us that parents named on this COLB are adoptive, from amended birth certificate. Obama won't release original birth certificate showing birth parents, although it would prove at birth he was natural born U.S. citizen, because it would also prove he is not black. Barry's real problems arise from probable loss of U.S. citizenship after birth.
Whether it's hundreds of thousands or millions by now, the rumor about this guy's background is out there. No amount of laughing or chucking by his media minions has made it go away. God gave us all a moral compass (gut check), if it doesn't pass the giggle test what has Obama accomplished? A normal person would put fires out to gain the support of the people. So is it arrogance, or that he cannot produce what he does not have, a verifiable basic background...
I agree with all your comment's and they are right on the mark! Liberal's and their socialist kindred's, socialism, marxism, facsism and the progressivies all inevitably lead to tyranny!
Under growing pressure from several groups, including the Americans for Freedom of Information, Justice Scalia announced that the Supreme Court agree to hear arguments concerning Obama’s legal eligibility to serve as President.
There was no group - Americans for Freedom of Information, when the chain email was circulated. A website for the group showed later that mocked people that believed the chain email to begin with.
Without actually checking facts before you post this stuff only makes birthers look like some type of cartoon show.
I@arrrogantlyignorant Making birthers look like some type of cartoon show is exactly my point. Whatever I can do to expose the birthers and their lies is my ga
goal. The only people lower than birthers are supporters of birthers.
Your mom gavebirth to a child that was and is brain dead! Your mad as a hatter being a liberal. About 60 % of Americans and rising, doubt that lying, evil Obummer is a legal US citizen! This bastard has spent better than $2.4 million on 3 teams of lawyers covering up for his evil ass and keeping all from seeing his original birth cert., his shot records, school recorda and passport records. This reprobate is hiding everything because he knows he is a usurper just zombies like you cant see it!
J McCain gladly provided his birth cert. an all records of his when it was requested of him! Not Marxist tyrant Obama! Its assholes like you, who are in the minority, who help cover up for this hideously hateful, lying, murderous, evil thing from hell who is doing his utmost to force a Soviet style tyranny upon We The People an because you're godless, soulless an in great spiritual darkness you can't see it an you support his Marxist agenda to enslave and murder the freedom loving American's!
There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Obama has spent anywhere close to $2.4 million fighting birther suits. His own lawyers have said to Politico that they're pro bono on birther suits, and in one case where the birther had to pay attorney fees, it turns out it cost about $500 to get the whole case dismissed. There's no way whatsoever Obama's spending millions on these quick, insignificant cases by nutcases like Orly and Apuzzo.
MY birth certificate says what hospital I was born in and the Doctor who delivered me, but Obama's does not. Why? Because Obama produced a Certification of Live Birth, INSTEAD OF A BIRTH CERTIFICATE. So now bamazombies can play word games and pretend that a COLB is a birth certificate.
@reportanddeport My ignorant birther friend, birth certificates vary from state to state. The COLB is sufficient for a US passport or any other purpose. It is prima facie evidence in ANY court of law. It IS a birth certificate, no matter how much birthers may stick their heads in the sand and go "Lalala not listening!"
The hospital is ultimately irrelevant, because it doesn't matter where in Honolulu Obama was born.
The issue is not whether courts or the passport service accept Obama's COLB, the issue is whether Obama was born in the United States or not. How about Obama release a REAL birth certificate, instead of a certificate in lieu of a birth certificate? Why do all the bamazombies speak for Obama, but he can't even speak for himself? Why is Obama obfuscating this issue? What Doctor delivered Obama and where was the birth and why is there no proof of it? Why hide it?
@reportanddeport Yes, the issue is whether Obama was born in the US. The birth certificate he posted on his campaign website clearly states that he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. The name of the doctor or hospital is ultimately irrelevant to a question of whether he was born in the US. There's no hiding going on at all, you simply are too blinded by hatred for President Obama that you're unwilling to think this through clearly.
Transcripts (which were subpoened [sic]) from Occidental College indicate that Obama received finaicial [sic] aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate. The transcript shows that Obama applied for and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. To qualify, the student must claim foreign citizenship.
I can't believe that I'm reading this in July 2010. It is testament to how clueless people really are. Everything you just posted was from a chain email that originally was an April Fools joke from 2009. It was totally debunked a month later. The Occidental records were never released. This thing just keeps getting recycled by birthers that don't ever seem to check facts and continue to believe fictional made up nonsense.
These arrogant alleged public servants have contempt for us. Who the hell do we think we are to question them? Our "masters" don't have to follow the law, they make it up as they go along.
So, is this challenge to determine whether Obama was birthed in an American State? if he was born in Kenya or on the Moon but his mother was a resident of Hawaii who was in Kenya at the time of his birth does that mean he can not be a citizen of the US? Is this more of a challenge to know if his mother followed the laws of certification although he lived most of his entire life in the states? Are we splitting hairs here?
@KaptinObvious Once again!!!!!!!!!! The requirement for the office of President of the United States is ..Ready?! Drumroll please......NATURAL BORN CITIZEN!!!!!
NOT "citizen" The Founders/Framers req'd this standard for just one position* in the entire national governmental structure. Even they fell short of the mark and had to establish a provision to "grandfather" ,themselves and those of their ilk, in.
*The 12th Amendment has made it so that all req to the Office of POTUS now apply to VP
What kind of proof would satisfy you? A digital video of his birth, a Hawaiian cellphone account registered to his mother, or a Facebook status congratulating the mother for the birth of her child. Seriously? That was 1960. A copy of the certificate and a newspaper ad are enough.
If you don't want a Negro as your president, then have a coup and remove him from power. Or you can keep discussing this issue for the next two and a half years while China positions itself as the next superpower.
@flyingbird0214 The 'Negro', as you refer to him is the One who staged the coup. If not for his race; the fact that he is NOT an Article II natural born citizen;therefore not eligible for the office he now illegally occupies would be at "issue" Instead people of all races are so imprisoned by their biases & prejudices that they can't deal with what is otherwise a fairly straight-forward case. The man was born owing allegiance to a foreign sovereignty.- Per the nativity story he provides
@flyingbird0214 If you are going to play the "red herring" BC game; at least get your facts straight. If you've a copy B.O. Jr's "Certificate"(not a "Certification") of Live Birth in your possession;then let's see it. There are millions of US that would love to know the precise circumstances of the "Messiah's" birth ie the hospital(he & his minions most recently claim..sort of..Kapi'olani) the name of the attending physician,parents' signatures incl father & all other appropriate vital data
Don't believe the non-citizen conspiracy theory until it's proven. We do not have the proof he was born elsewhere, so there is no reason to claim that we do. If evidence is ever found proving he was born outside the US, then believe it. Not until.
There is no basis for acting like this is a proven fact. It isn't.
U.S. Congressman,abolitionist,"Father of the 14th Amendment"John Bingham,confirms understanding &construction framers used re birthright & jurisdiction House of Reps 3/9 1866:
I find no fault with the introductory clause which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution,that EVERY HUMAN BEING BORN within the jurisdiction of the United States OF PARENTS NOT OWING ALLEGIANCE TO ANY FOREIGN SOVEREIGNTY IS, in the language of your Constitution itself, A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
@theslowevo Your kidding, right? It's a constitutional matter. the man is not eligible to serve as president without showing his birth certificate! I would be lobbying just as hard if this was a white man. It doesn't matter if he's white, black, green, or yellow. I can see past color, why can't ya'll do the same?
@theslowevo It too is PURE RACISM that that disgrace, Eric Holder breached his oath of office by forcing to drop the New Black Panther Voter Intimidation case. It is a sham too, that the NAACP pegs Taxed Enough Party for undocumented racism, when you have that PIG, SHABAZZ, THE IDIOT, publicly expressing his view to kill whites.
@theslowevo 'If Obama was white' he wouldn't have been "elected", in the first place.
The only reason that B.O. Jr, having now successfully usurped the highest office in the Land, has not been called out for his crime- is precisely for the reason you cite peculiar to him. His race innoculates him and prevents one from questioning him or holding him to a standard that would otherwise be applied to a white person in his position
Jeez you Conservatards are still beating this dead horse?
Why don't you guys head on over to WorldNutDaily and bring us back some more stories about the next lawsuit you're positive will gain traction so we can laugh at you some more when it gets thrown out of court.
@picklebarrels Why doesn't the other side show us some facts to prove us wong? It's all empty language from you dems. If Obama wants us to shut up, than he should just show the documents that he was required to show in the first place. You can't even play little league baseball without showing a birth certificate, it's insane that this guy is in the white house without showing one!
Obama does not have the burden of proof. He already proved himself. Its up to you to produce evidence that seriously disputes info he already gave.
He was vetted the exact same way that every other President was. He was already accepted by the people that do that. If you disagree with them, then you need to go after the process, not the man.
@arrrogantlyignorant Obama has proven nothing, and all previous presidents readily provided documents proving they were born within the United States. Obama is the only one that refused to hand over necessary documents until a court order was issued. He then flew to Hawaii, visited the hospital that he was supposedly born in, and days later provided a birth certificate. The hospital refuses to cooperate, and it is quite simple to get a birth certificate without being born in the US.
Obama's birth place and citizenship was proven long before the election. His birth certificate has been available online for more than 2 years. No other Presidents "readily provided documents". Show me proof of ONE.
Your story is bogus. Hospitals in Hawaii do not issue birth certificates. The Dept of Health does. Of course the hospital refused to "cooperate". See also: Health Information Privacy Act.
The Hawaii Dept of Health stated they have his original on file.
@arrrogantlyignorant : Obama's birthplace is irrelevant as his citizenship was renounced so that he could attend Indonesian public school. This alone makes him ineligible to hold the office of Chief Magistrate A.K.A. President.
Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. Because he was born in the US, he could not lose his US citizenship as a child. Even if he was adopted. He would've had to have renounced US citizenship and sworn allegiance to Indonesia as an adult. His parents could not do that for him. You need to read the applicable US Immigration law and Indonesian citizenship laws to understand why that is true.
@arrrogantlyignorant : Indonesian law mandated, at the time, that only Indonesian citizens could attend public school. Barry Soetoro, Jr. (fraudulently known as Barack Obama) attended Indonesian public school.
No it didn't. Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship. This pertains to ADULTS.
There is no law that only Indonesian citizens could attend public school there.
That is pure birther myth. Barry Soetoro was the name he went by while in Indonesia. It was never legally changed. It has always been Barack Hussein Obama II.
@arrrogantlyignorant : I've seen school papers. He signed his name Barry Soetoro. Then your contention is that he used the alias "Barry Soetoro" while attending school?
@arrrogantlyignorant Dual citizenship applies to children as well. Most citizenship laws have the citizenship status of a minor mirror that of their parents. As for school attendance, the Indonesian constitution comments on that. A child must be a citizen or abandoned in order to be enrolled at an Indonesian school. If I recall correctly, Obama was not abandoned in Indonesia, which means that he had to have been a legal citizen in order to attend their schools.
Simply not true. Please cite the section and paragraph of the Indonesian Constitution that specifies that a chile must be a citizen or abandoned in order to attend school.
@arrrogantlyignorant I find it fascinating that you claim it is not true, and then you ask me to site the location within the Indonesian Constitution. You make it increasingly obvious that you have not actually read the Indonesian Constitution. The language in which I am referring to can be found in Chapter 8, Article 31, Sections 1-2, and Chapter 9, Article 34, Section 1-4.
@arrrogantlyignorant: LOL. You clearly do not know or understand the facts. The "online" certificate you're referring to is a Cert of Live Birth (COLB), frequently issued to foreigners in Hawaii. Secondly, you have the information on "renouncing US citizenship" completely mangled. His mother remarried & moved to Indonesia, there are records indicating he was nationalized there. Whether born in the US or Kenya, Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship. He would've lost US citizenship.
Actually it is you that has a problem with facts. The COLB is a valid, official, State issued, Certified birth certificate. Since the Hawaii Dept of Health went paperless in 2001, they no longer issue "long form" or photo copies of paper birth certificates. It is their current issue standard birth certificate.
Hawaii is not going to issue birth certificates saying you were born there if you weren't. Thats more birther myth.
I'd like to see the records of him being "nationalized" in Indonesia. You're right about Indonesia not allowing dual citizenship. The key thing is, the law only pertains to adults. He never lost US citizenship nor was he ever an Indonesian citizen.
@arrrogantlyignorant Obama's mother expatriated her U.S. citizenship when she married Lolo Soetoro. Both, her and Obama relocated to Indonesia. Because the Nationality Act of 1940 also provided that a minor became naturalized (in the other country) upon the naturalization of his or her parent having custody of such person, Obama became expatriated by virtue of his mother's marriage and their subsequent relocation to Indonesia.
The fact that Obama's mother married Lolo Soetoro and may have given up her US citizenship had no bearing on Obama's citizenship. The law you cited was outdated. Obama never lost his US citizenship. He would've had to renounce US citizenship as an adult and sworn allegiance to Indonesia. He could not do that as a minor and his parents could not do it for him.
The following several posts will contain the applicable laws in place at the time.
The following quote shows that even if Stanley Ann Dunham gave up her US citizenship that Barack could not lose his unless he was 21 years old or older.
The 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, Title III, Chapter 3, Section 355, says:
"A person having United States nationality, who is under the age of twenty-one and whose residence is in a foreign state with or under the legal custody of a parent who hereafter loses United States nationality under section 350 or 352
Cont'd of this title, shall also lose his United States nationality if such person has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state: Provided, That, in such case, United States nationality shall not be lost as the result of loss of United States nationality by the parent unless and until the person attains the age of twenty-five years without having established his residence in the United States."
@arrrogantlyignorant I find it odd that your quote does not directly match the wording used in the law itself. That being said, according to the law you site, the child's nationality can legally be changed by the guardian or parent. The nationality of the child will also change if the parent or guardian is over the age of 21. Obama's mother was 25 when they moved to Indonesia, which means that Obama's citizenship status would have changed just like his mother's.
@arrrogantlyignorant According to Indonesian law, Obama was considered an Indonesian citizen. This is solely due to the citizenship status of Lolo Soetoro, which would directly impact the citizenship status of Ann Dunham, thus directly impacting the citizenship status of Barrack Obama. United States law states that citizenship status is lost if the individual gains citizenship status of a foreign nation.
He did not lose US citizenship. Because he was born in Hawaii on US soil, he could not lose citizenship as a child unless he was under 5. I already posted the applicable laws which you misread.
Let me add that there is no proof that Ann Dunham became an Indonesian citizen. This would make the law you cited (Law No. 62 of 1958, Law on the Citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia. Article 13 (2) ...... irrelevant.
@arrrogantlyignorant I already addressed the laws which you attempted to incorrectly translate. Ann Dunham married an Indonesian citizen, which would make her an Indonesian citizen, assuming that she decide to reside in Indonesia, which she did. Her citizenship status in Indonesia directly affects that of her son.
@arrrogantlyignorant According to Indonesian law, she would have become a citizen. You did not show me why Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. You simply made an inaccurate claim based on an inaccurate interpretation of a US law. I showed you the text within the Indonesian constitution that showed Obama had to have been an Indonesian citizen. I also showed you the Indonesian law stating that his mother would have been a citizen, making him a citizen.
@arrrogantlyignorant Actually, I did. Now, provide proof that she was not an Indonesian citizen. According to Indonesia law, she would become a citizen following her marriage and relocation because of her husband's citizenship status.
I'm not going to try to disprove something that you cannot prove to begin with.
Marriage is not going to change a US citizen's citizenship status. They would need to go through a naturalization process. You have proof that Ann Dunham did that?
@arrrogantlyignorant I have already proven that Ann Dunham had to have become an Indonesian citizen, and Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship. You seem to be unable to disprove something that I have proven. Basic Indonesian and United States law shows that her citizenship status would have changed based on her actions.
Sorry but you did not prove Ann Dunham actually became an Indonesian citizen. She wouldn't become one simply by marrying Lolo Soetoro and moving there. She would've had to renounce her US citizenship first, which you have not proven that she did. Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. He would've had to renounce his US citizenship also, which could not be done as a minor.
@arrrogantlyignorant You can make the same claim time and time again, but that won't change anything. I have proven that, according to Indonesian and U.S. law, Ann Dunhham was an Indonesian citizen. She either broke Indonesian law, U.S. law, both, or she became an Indonesian citizen. For some reason, you continually assume that you have to renounce US citizenship in order to lose it, but that is not the case.
You didn't prove anything. Stanley Ann Dunham was a natural born American citizen.
There are no records that indicate she ever became an Indonesian citizen.
Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship, therefore she could not become an Indonesian citizen without first renouncing US citizenship.
Because Obama was born in the Hawaii (US soil) he could not lose his US citizenship as a minor. He was back in Hawaii at age 10, way before he became an adult.
@arrrogantlyignorant I never said that Dunham was not born in America. However, I have already proven with Indonesia and U.S. law that she had to have become an Indonesian citizen. I have also already discussed the affects that this would have on Obama's citizenship.
I didn't say you did. You didn't prove anything. You assume a whole lot but the facts point the other way. Because Ann Dunham was a US citizen, she could not become an Indonesian without first renouncing US citizenship. Thats what Article 7 (1) says. She could not make a statement affirming she was a citizen of Indonesia while "she possesses still another nationality"
@arrrogantlyignorant What facts? You are going solely on assumptions as well. At least my assumptions are based on U.S. and Indonesian law. Article 7 Section 2 is still applicable to Dunham. It comments on exceptions listed in Section 1, but it does not say that Section 1 supersedes Section 2. If the wife does not make a statement within the first year and the husband has not made a statement, then the wife gains citizenship status. Neither individual made such statements.
@arrrogantlyignorant I have already shown why you are incorrect. You are going based off of a misinterpretation of Indonesian Law. Which is why I sited Indonesian Family Law and their simplification.
What you think younshowed me is not true. I'm not going "based off a misrepresentation of Indonesian law", you are. Your trying to cite this Indonesian family law is just an attempt throw a smoke screen. What is relevant here is the US Immigration and Indonesian citizenship laws, which I've cited.
@arrrogantlyignorant Not true? That is a fascinating claim, but I have sited Indonesian Immigration Law and Indonesian Family Law. I've sited both, U.S. and Indonesian immigration Law, and they both provide the same conclusion. Dunham had to have gained Indonesian citizenship status, thus losing her U.S. citizenship status.
You have it backwards. Ann Dunham would have to renounce US citizenship FIRST. Then she could become an Indonesian citizen. There is no evidence that she did so. She never became an Indonesian citizen, she remained a US citizen.
(1)A foreign woman married to a citizen of the Republic of Indonesia, acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia, if and when she makes a statement as to that effect within 1 year after contracting said marriage, except in case when she acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia she possesses still another nationality, in which case the statement may not be made.
(2)With the exception as mentioned in para 1 the foreign woman who marries a citizen of the Republic of Indonesia also acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia one year after the marriage has been contracted, if within that one year her husband does not make a statement as to release his citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia.
@arrrogantlyignorant Indonesian Family Law clarifies by stating " The foreign wife, however, will obtain the Indonesian nationality if within one year of the marriage, she declares her intention to become an Indonesian national, provided that she will not be holding another nationality. Such declaration is to be submitted to the competent District court or the Indonesian Embassy."
@arrrogantlyignorant It does not matter if Dunham was holding another nationality. According to Indonesian Law, she would have become an Indonesian citizen, which would have forced her to lose U.S. citizenship status. You merely call it impossible, misinterpret Indonesian Law, and make baseless claims because you do not want to face the fact that Dunham became an Indonesian citizen.
It surely does matter that Ann Dunham was holding another nationality. According to Indonesian law, she could not make a statement affirming Indonesian citizenship "while still possessing another nationality", which would be her US citizenship.
Its not a baseless claim. Obama Jr never was an Indonesian citizen, neither was his mother. That is fact, not a baseless claim.
@arrrogantlyignorant Indonesian Family Law continued: "If the foreign wife has not made such declaration to opt, she will nevertheless acquire Indonesian nationality after the first year of marriage, provided that the Indonesian husband has not in the meantime renounced his nationality."
@arrrogantlyignorant Actually, the simplification makes mention of the language between the two sections, which shows that section 2 is relevant in Dunham's case. You can claim that Dunham and Obama were not Indonesian citizens all you want; however, that will not change the fact that you are misinterpreting Indonesian law, which I have already proven.
I haven't misrepresented anything. You on the other hand have done exactly that and you didn't prove that Ann Dunham OR Barack Jr were ever Indonesian citizens.
@arrrogantlyignorant You are simply making the same repetitive claims. I will only say this one more time. According to Indonesian Law, Dunham would have gained Indonesian citizenship status, which would result in the loss of her U.S. citizenship status. This has been proven using U.S. and Indoensian Immigration Law. Your misinterpretations of the law will not change the fact that Dunham had to have gained Indonesian citizenship status, thus losing U.S. citizenship status.
Wrong, according to Indonesian law, Ann Dunham had to renounce her US citizenship FIRST in order to become an Indonesian citizen. You didn't prove that she became one but I certainly proved she didn't. I noticed that you ignored what I posted about her divorce decree with Lolo Soetoro. She and Barack Jr were "listed as US citizens, the father an Indonesian citizen". There are no naturalization records for them in 1980 which means NEITHER lost their US citizenship.
@arrrogantlyignorant Actually, I did prove that based on her actions and both, US and Indonesian Immigration Law, as well as Indonesian Family Law that she would have become an Indonesian citizen, thus losing her US citizenship status. You can repeat the same statement over and over, but you are still misinterpreting Indonesian law. There is a lot of information about Obama that is conveniently missing. Have you been able to find a statement to the Indonesian government from Lolo Soetoro?
It is interesting that in the last several posts you made, you didn't mention Barack Obama's citizenship. You've been pretending so hard that his mother became an Indonesian citizen, when there is no evidence that she did.
Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. His mother wasnt one either.
The following section cities applicable Indonesian Citizenship law IF Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro.
Law No. 62 of 1958, Law on the Citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia
"Article 2.
(1)A foreign child of less than 5 years age who is adopted by a citizen of the Republic of Indonesia acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia, if such an adoption is declared legal by the Pengadilan Negeri at the residence of the person adopting the child."
@arrrogantlyignorant Perhaps you should read the law in its entirety. Obama was not an adopted child. Law No. 62 of 1958, Law on the Citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia. Article 13 states "Article 13.
"(2)The citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia acquired by a mother also applies to her children who have no legal family relationship with the father, who have not reached the age of 18 and are not married yet after they have resided and are in Indonesia."
@arrrogantlyignorant I have already discussed his birth certificate, and you simply provided the same quote as before. All presidential candidates have had to provide proof of being born in the United States. You can order a birth certificate online. The only requirements are, you must provide a copy of your drivers license and pay a small fee.
Obama provided his birth certificate. It's been available online for more than two years.
Obama was vetted the exact same way that every other Presidential candidate was. The people that do that already accepted him as eligible. If you disagree with them, you need to go after the process, not the man.
@arrrogantlyignorant I suggest that you take a closer look at the posted "copy" of Obama's birth certificate. It more closely resembles that of a later issued version, and very little like a mere photocopy of an actual 1961 birth certificate.
I don't need to take a closer look at it. I know it came from 2007. The Hawaii Dept of Health no longer issues "long form" or photocopies of paper birth certificates. Since they went paperless in 2001, they only issue the COLB. It is their current standard State issued, certified birth certificate. Welcome to the digital age.
@arrrogantlyignorant You made that claim before. The problem is that even the "paperless" method typically used for Hawaii does not mach with the document presented by Obama. That being said, scanning an original document would use no paper and would take mere seconds.
@arrrogantlyignorant You can repeat that claim as often as you like, but you should look at an actual Hawaiian state issued birth certificate from 2007 and from 1961. Obama's birth certificate matches neither one. That being said, I am well aware of what the law states. However, it would be quite simple to produce a scanned copy of the original, which would not harm any trees and would hardly inconvenience anyone.
@arrrogantlyignorant Are you really that dense? I understand perfectly what you are saying. However, you seem incapable of comprehending the fact that I have compared his document to that of a 2007 issued document. It is missing a state seal and the individual at the registrar that processed it. That being said, you seem to not understand what I am saying. Even if they have gone "paperless," it would not require the use of any paper to make a scanned copy of the document.
The images on factcheck clearly show the embossed State seal and the stamped signature of the registrar (Alvin Onaka).
You really expect the Hawaii Dept of Health to scan a document "just because its simple to produce"??? Look at how many idiots claim the current one is forged.
Why would Hawaii do that when they already issued a valid, official, State issued, Certified birth certificate that is prima face evidence he was born there?
@arrrogantlyignorant So why does he refuse to provide a LONG FORM bc?? Why has he spent over a million dollars hiding school records,thesis writings,baptism records and everything else he refuses to show? Would YOU be willing to spend that kind of money if you were not HIDING SOMETHING??
For one, because what he provided already is legally sufficient. Secondly, Hawaii no longer issues "long form" or photo copies of paper birth certificates.
What evidence do you have that he spent "over a million"?? Cite please.
@arrrogantlyignorant Actually, factcheck shows both images separately from a zoomed out image of Obama's birth certificate. If you look closely at the copy being held by someone from fact check, the stamp and seal cannot be seen. Even the "copy" on the Obama website is missing the stamp and seal. Conveniently enough, the people at fact check are able to hold the document when a mere scanned copy cannot be released? I find that hard to believe.
@arrrogantlyignorant If they were the ones to issue a false document, why would they readily admit it? He visited Hawaii to receive the document; however, that does not prove that he is Hawaiian born. At any given time, you can receive a birth certificate from any US state. It is quite simple, and I already explained to you how it can be done.
So you are contending that the Dept of Health lied? The Governor of Hawaii lied?
How do you explain the newspaper birth announcements that appeared in two different news papers in 1961? Obama's family "planted" those because they knew that newborn baby would run for President in 40+ years?
@arrrogantlyignorant Do you simply copy and paste your arguments from other websites? It is quite possible to produce micro film or alter it. I'm not saying that that is what happened, but it is possible. As for the Department of Health and the Governor, I have never been one to trust politicians or government agencies. They could easily prove their "honesty" by allowing the issuance of a scanned copy of the original document.
@arrrogantlyignorant Why would the Hawaiian health department not do something that is so simple that could resolve this matter once and for all? I find it fascinating that you call those that question the document's legality idiots, when all you are capable of is repeating statements posted on other websites.
@arrrogantlyignorant I have read the law. A court order to force the issuance of the original document, but the Supreme Court, Eric Holder, and many lower level federal courts continually ignore the case. I can ask the question as frequently as I want, but that won't take away from the fact that I have read the law. There are many things you say repeatedly, does that mean that you really don't know what you are talking about?
@arrrogantlyignorant Interesting. I did not realize that you were the person that got to make those decisions. In fact, the case involved the highest political offices and the potential forgery of federal documents, which makes it a valid case. You simply claim that it is ridiculous because you have already made up your mind pertaining to this topic.
@arrrogantlyignorant You continually call it "a valid, official, state issued, certified birth certificate, that is prima facie evidence he was born there." It is as if you believe adding all of those words will make the statement more valid. That being said, there are multiple individuals with credible backgrounds that question the legality of the issued document.
@arrrogantlyignorant That is odd. You make it sound as though you are the sole determining factor in one's intelligence. Stupidity can be defined as lacking interest or point, as well as lacking intelligence or reasoning. You have been lacking much, which can be seen throughout our conversation. I know what the base of the document says; however, that quote can be place on any document. I could right it on a piece of scratch paper. That won't make it a true statement though.
If Obama is re-elected,by 2020 the Democratic Party will be reduced to the ghetto and the kibbutz.
ImDavidGurney 8 months ago
It doesn't matter whether Barack Osama can forge a birth certificate or not. You just need to look at him; does he look like an American? NO siree!
AmerikanPatriot 10 months ago
@AmerikanPatriot Racist piece of scum.
TheGamanic 9 months ago
@AmerikanPatriot You're the most disgusting, racist pig I've ever seen.
MrWsad 8 months ago
@MrWsad You've led a sheltered life then. Try to get out more.
AmerikanPatriot 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
50,000 American soldiers have succumbed to "Gulf War Syndrome" as a result of being deliberately exposed to neurological/radiological-toxins by the U.S. govt. (or what passes for it). As for the dispensation of Americans who participated in the slaughter over there: it's of paramount importance that they be tried, adjudicated & summarily executed, as prescribed by the citizen-juries of Iraq.
TheManWithTVEyes 1 year ago
He does and should bring it up on the floor, time and time agin till some one listens.
darrellmellissa 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
She is my sister and become naughty benaughtyman.info
lailajanaki 1 year ago
Obama has never released a birth certificate, he only released a certification of live birth, with no hospital, no doctor,no witnesses and NO PROOF OF WHERE HE WAS BORN. Obama is not the legal President, but Dems don't mind, as long as they can get away with it.
reportanddeport 1 year ago 2
@reportanddeport
to be fair, even if he did provide all those things on his birth certificate, you probably still wouldnt like him.
AceofDiamonds0 1 year ago
@AceofDiamonds0 What does liking him got to do with it?
darrellmellissa 1 year ago
@AceofDiamonds0 he has hidden the truth from us all for so long that any thing that he brings to us (after 2 million dallors ) will obviously be a lie likeing him has nothing to do with the truth it is the fact that he in my opinion has been in this country claiming to be something that he is not , a citizen born american , lier lier lier
percychoate 1 year ago
@percychoate
Where is your source for that ridiculous figure (2 million)??
Obama was born in Hawaii (US soil) making him a citizen at birth jus soli.
His mother was an American, also making him a citizen at birth jus sanguinis.
Citizen at birth = natural born citizen.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant look if you want to continue to blind yourself with a lie then go ahead , i only know that i will not waste my time with you , and if you haven't read any of the facts about the usurper in chief the i would suggest that you do a little research on your own ,as i know that you won't believe any thing that i say
percychoate 1 year ago
@percychoate
Why are you evading my question about the $2 million?
You made it up didn't you?
I'm not about to go on a wild goose chase to disprove something that you can't prove to begin with.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant you seem to be the only one that doesn't know any thing about it , i mean its all over the internet just keep watching you'll see . and by the way you wouldn't believe me any way just a hint , american center for law and justice . go fish .
percychoate 11 months ago
@percychoate
"go fish"
No thank you.
You made a very specific claim ($2 million). If it was real, you would have no problem citing where you got it, which of course, you can't... because you made it up.
If "its all over the internet", simple... post up or pm a link. Easy enough.
You accused the President of being a "lier lier lier"
Number one - its LIAR.
Number two - you're the one lying here.
arrrogantlyignorant 11 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant isn't it funny you understood what lier ment , so what is the problem . and i don' t understand , i gave you a place to go USJF.COM . THE PROBLEM WITH YOU IS THAT YOU ARE IN DENIAL . OR DID I SPELL THAT WRONG . and no you are doing the worst thing and that is lieing to yourself . and i do understand that you are a socialist , and believe me , that makes you a communist too .
percychoate 11 months ago
@percychoate
How many times did I ask you? And how many times did you evade citing evidence that supports your claim? 4 or 5 times now? Wouldn't it be easier to simply put the evidence here, rather than give me the run around.
Btw, its "lying" not "lieing".
"you are a socialist , and believe me , that makes you a communist"
Obviously, you have NO idea what either of those words mean. When you use them interchangeably like that, it only personifies your stupidity.
arrrogantlyignorant 11 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant i gave your dumb ass the answer , but i can see that all you want to do is argue , and by the way you are the stupid one because there is really no differance between a socialist or a communist. and this is the second time you have changed the spelling of lier lieing to lying . what the hell . just keep sending your dumb ass stuff because you are the one that is showing their stupidity .
percychoate 11 months ago
@percychoate
"just keep sending your dumb ass stuff"
Coming from someone that can't spell for shit and actually thinks that socialist and communist is that same.... LOL
Your stupidity is astounding.
You gave me a link to the US Judo Foundation, not a source for your ridiculous "$2 million".
There is stupid....... then theres birther stupid.
arrrogantlyignorant 11 months ago
@percychoate
US Judo Foundation? LMAO
arrrogantlyignorant 11 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant man you really are an idiot , i give you an answer and what do you do , exactly what i knew that you would , o well stupid is as stupid does .
percychoate 11 months ago
@percychoate
Why are you evading my question about the $2 million?
You made it up didn't you?
I'm not about to go on a wild goose chase to disprove something that you can't prove to begin with.
The only people blind here are the idiots that think this President is not eligible for office.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
COLB is abstract from certificate on file. Parents could be birth parents or adoptive parents. Dr. Fukino's statement page 76 of "Manchurian President" tips us that parents named on this COLB are adoptive, from amended birth certificate. Obama won't release original birth certificate showing birth parents, although it would prove at birth he was natural born U.S. citizen, because it would also prove he is not black. Barry's real problems arise from probable loss of U.S. citizenship after birth.
eingriff1 1 year ago
Whether it's hundreds of thousands or millions by now, the rumor about this guy's background is out there. No amount of laughing or chucking by his media minions has made it go away. God gave us all a moral compass (gut check), if it doesn't pass the giggle test what has Obama accomplished? A normal person would put fires out to gain the support of the people. So is it arrogance, or that he cannot produce what he does not have, a verifiable basic background...
Nezello 1 year ago
I agree with all your comment's and they are right on the mark! Liberal's and their socialist kindred's, socialism, marxism, facsism and the progressivies all inevitably lead to tyranny!
wconeal1 1 year ago
Under growing pressure from several groups, including the Americans for Freedom of Information, Justice Scalia announced that the Supreme Court agree to hear arguments concerning Obama’s legal eligibility to serve as President.
1940jan 1 year ago
@1940jan
There was no group - Americans for Freedom of Information, when the chain email was circulated. A website for the group showed later that mocked people that believed the chain email to begin with.
Without actually checking facts before you post this stuff only makes birthers look like some type of cartoon show.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
I@arrrogantlyignorant Making birthers look like some type of cartoon show is exactly my point. Whatever I can do to expose the birthers and their lies is my ga
goal. The only people lower than birthers are supporters of birthers.
1940jan 1 year ago
@1940jan
And where do you rate those who support the supporters of birthers?
Thunkful2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Thunkful2 Lower than whale shit.
1940jan 1 year ago
Your mom gavebirth to a child that was and is brain dead! Your mad as a hatter being a liberal. About 60 % of Americans and rising, doubt that lying, evil Obummer is a legal US citizen! This bastard has spent better than $2.4 million on 3 teams of lawyers covering up for his evil ass and keeping all from seeing his original birth cert., his shot records, school recorda and passport records. This reprobate is hiding everything because he knows he is a usurper just zombies like you cant see it!
wconeal1 1 year ago
J McCain gladly provided his birth cert. an all records of his when it was requested of him! Not Marxist tyrant Obama! Its assholes like you, who are in the minority, who help cover up for this hideously hateful, lying, murderous, evil thing from hell who is doing his utmost to force a Soviet style tyranny upon We The People an because you're godless, soulless an in great spiritual darkness you can't see it an you support his Marxist agenda to enslave and murder the freedom loving American's!
wconeal1 1 year ago
@wconeal1
There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Obama has spent anywhere close to $2.4 million fighting birther suits. His own lawyers have said to Politico that they're pro bono on birther suits, and in one case where the birther had to pay attorney fees, it turns out it cost about $500 to get the whole case dismissed. There's no way whatsoever Obama's spending millions on these quick, insignificant cases by nutcases like Orly and Apuzzo.
qwertyman129 1 year ago
@qwertyman129
MY birth certificate says what hospital I was born in and the Doctor who delivered me, but Obama's does not. Why? Because Obama produced a Certification of Live Birth, INSTEAD OF A BIRTH CERTIFICATE. So now bamazombies can play word games and pretend that a COLB is a birth certificate.
reportanddeport 1 year ago 2
@reportanddeport My ignorant birther friend, birth certificates vary from state to state. The COLB is sufficient for a US passport or any other purpose. It is prima facie evidence in ANY court of law. It IS a birth certificate, no matter how much birthers may stick their heads in the sand and go "Lalala not listening!"
The hospital is ultimately irrelevant, because it doesn't matter where in Honolulu Obama was born.
qwertyman129 1 year ago
@qwertyman129
The issue is not whether courts or the passport service accept Obama's COLB, the issue is whether Obama was born in the United States or not. How about Obama release a REAL birth certificate, instead of a certificate in lieu of a birth certificate? Why do all the bamazombies speak for Obama, but he can't even speak for himself? Why is Obama obfuscating this issue? What Doctor delivered Obama and where was the birth and why is there no proof of it? Why hide it?
reportanddeport 1 year ago
@reportanddeport Yes, the issue is whether Obama was born in the US. The birth certificate he posted on his campaign website clearly states that he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. The name of the doctor or hospital is ultimately irrelevant to a question of whether he was born in the US. There's no hiding going on at all, you simply are too blinded by hatred for President Obama that you're unwilling to think this through clearly.
qwertyman129 1 year ago
@1940jan SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE DEMORAT
percychoate 11 months ago
Transcripts (which were subpoened [sic]) from Occidental College indicate that Obama received finaicial [sic] aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate. The transcript shows that Obama applied for and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. To qualify, the student must claim foreign citizenship.
1940jan 1 year ago
@1940jan
I can't believe that I'm reading this in July 2010. It is testament to how clueless people really are. Everything you just posted was from a chain email that originally was an April Fools joke from 2009. It was totally debunked a month later. The Occidental records were never released. This thing just keeps getting recycled by birthers that don't ever seem to check facts and continue to believe fictional made up nonsense.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
An illegal person becomes a legal citizen through marriage.
FreeByrd5362 1 year ago
These arrogant alleged public servants have contempt for us. Who the hell do we think we are to question them? Our "masters" don't have to follow the law, they make it up as they go along.
abukamoon 1 year ago
I don't believe that Barak Obama was even born!
I demand to see the placenta NOW!
Diatonic5th 1 year ago
Racism is well hiden these days!!!!!!
wildcat111 1 year ago
So, is this challenge to determine whether Obama was birthed in an American State? if he was born in Kenya or on the Moon but his mother was a resident of Hawaii who was in Kenya at the time of his birth does that mean he can not be a citizen of the US? Is this more of a challenge to know if his mother followed the laws of certification although he lived most of his entire life in the states? Are we splitting hairs here?
KaptinObvious 1 year ago
@KaptinObvious Once again!!!!!!!!!! The requirement for the office of President of the United States is ..Ready?! Drumroll please......NATURAL BORN CITIZEN!!!!!
NOT "citizen" The Founders/Framers req'd this standard for just one position* in the entire national governmental structure. Even they fell short of the mark and had to establish a provision to "grandfather" ,themselves and those of their ilk, in.
*The 12th Amendment has made it so that all req to the Office of POTUS now apply to VP
kiiifute1 1 year ago
Dumb rednecks
mrjonnewman 1 year ago
What kind of proof would satisfy you? A digital video of his birth, a Hawaiian cellphone account registered to his mother, or a Facebook status congratulating the mother for the birth of her child. Seriously? That was 1960. A copy of the certificate and a newspaper ad are enough.
If you don't want a Negro as your president, then have a coup and remove him from power. Or you can keep discussing this issue for the next two and a half years while China positions itself as the next superpower.
flyingbird0214 1 year ago
@flyingbird0214 The 'Negro', as you refer to him is the One who staged the coup. If not for his race; the fact that he is NOT an Article II natural born citizen;therefore not eligible for the office he now illegally occupies would be at "issue" Instead people of all races are so imprisoned by their biases & prejudices that they can't deal with what is otherwise a fairly straight-forward case. The man was born owing allegiance to a foreign sovereignty.- Per the nativity story he provides
kiiifute1 1 year ago
@flyingbird0214 If you are going to play the "red herring" BC game; at least get your facts straight. If you've a copy B.O. Jr's "Certificate"(not a "Certification") of Live Birth in your possession;then let's see it. There are millions of US that would love to know the precise circumstances of the "Messiah's" birth ie the hospital(he & his minions most recently claim..sort of..Kapi'olani) the name of the attending physician,parents' signatures incl father & all other appropriate vital data
kiiifute1 1 year ago
never believe a politician,Geez!
castoutservant 1 year ago
To: Republican Joe Barton (Texas)
Cc: GOP (GOBP); Teabaggers; Tea Birthers; Reagan zombies
Subject: "I want my country back!"
To all of you who continue to put corporation before COUNTRY:
Show us YOUR birth certificates!
RonPaulGeorgeRingo 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Impeach Obama now.
TAMARLANE 1 year ago
I'm sending a campaign contribution to Vitter because of this.Attaboy,Dave!
dlsofsetx 1 year ago
"most effective grounds to do it", not "params"
Don't believe the non-citizen conspiracy theory until it's proven. We do not have the proof he was born elsewhere, so there is no reason to claim that we do. If evidence is ever found proving he was born outside the US, then believe it. Not until.
There is no basis for acting like this is a proven fact. It isn't.
RuflessRecords 1 year ago
U.S. Congressman,abolitionist,"Father of the 14th Amendment"John Bingham,confirms understanding &construction framers used re birthright & jurisdiction House of Reps 3/9 1866:
I find no fault with the introductory clause which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution,that EVERY HUMAN BEING BORN within the jurisdiction of the United States OF PARENTS NOT OWING ALLEGIANCE TO ANY FOREIGN SOVEREIGNTY IS, in the language of your Constitution itself, A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN
kiiifute1 1 year ago
The birther campaign is based on PURE RACISM. If Obama was white, no one would be asking this.
theslowevo 1 year ago
@theslowevo Your kidding, right? It's a constitutional matter. the man is not eligible to serve as president without showing his birth certificate! I would be lobbying just as hard if this was a white man. It doesn't matter if he's white, black, green, or yellow. I can see past color, why can't ya'll do the same?
Colts38Pats34 1 year ago
@Colts38Pats34
He did show his birth certificate. Its been available online for more than 2 years now.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@theslowevo It too is PURE RACISM that that disgrace, Eric Holder breached his oath of office by forcing to drop the New Black Panther Voter Intimidation case. It is a sham too, that the NAACP pegs Taxed Enough Party for undocumented racism, when you have that PIG, SHABAZZ, THE IDIOT, publicly expressing his view to kill whites.
MrBluegrassfiddler 1 year ago
@theslowevo 'If Obama was white' he wouldn't have been "elected", in the first place.
The only reason that B.O. Jr, having now successfully usurped the highest office in the Land, has not been called out for his crime- is precisely for the reason you cite peculiar to him. His race innoculates him and prevents one from questioning him or holding him to a standard that would otherwise be applied to a white person in his position
kiiifute1 1 year ago
80% of all business in this country now believe obamie is a communist
gregalot200 1 year ago
Jeez you Conservatards are still beating this dead horse?
Why don't you guys head on over to WorldNutDaily and bring us back some more stories about the next lawsuit you're positive will gain traction so we can laugh at you some more when it gets thrown out of court.
picklebarrels 1 year ago
@picklebarrels Why doesn't the other side show us some facts to prove us wong? It's all empty language from you dems. If Obama wants us to shut up, than he should just show the documents that he was required to show in the first place. You can't even play little league baseball without showing a birth certificate, it's insane that this guy is in the white house without showing one!
Colts38Pats34 1 year ago
@Colts38Pats34
Obama does not have the burden of proof. He already proved himself. Its up to you to produce evidence that seriously disputes info he already gave.
He was vetted the exact same way that every other President was. He was already accepted by the people that do that. If you disagree with them, then you need to go after the process, not the man.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
Comment removed
madehero2007 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Obama has proven nothing, and all previous presidents readily provided documents proving they were born within the United States. Obama is the only one that refused to hand over necessary documents until a court order was issued. He then flew to Hawaii, visited the hospital that he was supposedly born in, and days later provided a birth certificate. The hospital refuses to cooperate, and it is quite simple to get a birth certificate without being born in the US.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
Obama's birth place and citizenship was proven long before the election. His birth certificate has been available online for more than 2 years. No other Presidents "readily provided documents". Show me proof of ONE.
Your story is bogus. Hospitals in Hawaii do not issue birth certificates. The Dept of Health does. Of course the hospital refused to "cooperate". See also: Health Information Privacy Act.
The Hawaii Dept of Health stated they have his original on file.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant : Obama's birthplace is irrelevant as his citizenship was renounced so that he could attend Indonesian public school. This alone makes him ineligible to hold the office of Chief Magistrate A.K.A. President.
SufferInJuly 1 year ago
@SufferInJuly
Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. Because he was born in the US, he could not lose his US citizenship as a child. Even if he was adopted. He would've had to have renounced US citizenship and sworn allegiance to Indonesia as an adult. His parents could not do that for him. You need to read the applicable US Immigration law and Indonesian citizenship laws to understand why that is true.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant : Indonesian law mandated, at the time, that only Indonesian citizens could attend public school. Barry Soetoro, Jr. (fraudulently known as Barack Obama) attended Indonesian public school.
SufferInJuly 1 year ago
@SufferInJuly
No it didn't. Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship. This pertains to ADULTS.
There is no law that only Indonesian citizens could attend public school there.
That is pure birther myth. Barry Soetoro was the name he went by while in Indonesia. It was never legally changed. It has always been Barack Hussein Obama II.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant : I've seen school papers. He signed his name Barry Soetoro. Then your contention is that he used the alias "Barry Soetoro" while attending school?
SufferInJuly 1 year ago
@SufferInJuly
"School papers"?? Oh?
I've seen ONE school registration form. Is that the "school papers" you're referring to?
His mother married Lolo Soetoro. He used the name when he attended school there as a kid.
There are no adoption records and there are no record that his name was ever legally changed. It's always been Barack Hussein Obama II.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Dual citizenship applies to children as well. Most citizenship laws have the citizenship status of a minor mirror that of their parents. As for school attendance, the Indonesian constitution comments on that. A child must be a citizen or abandoned in order to be enrolled at an Indonesian school. If I recall correctly, Obama was not abandoned in Indonesia, which means that he had to have been a legal citizen in order to attend their schools.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
Simply not true. Please cite the section and paragraph of the Indonesian Constitution that specifies that a chile must be a citizen or abandoned in order to attend school.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago 2
@arrrogantlyignorant I find it fascinating that you claim it is not true, and then you ask me to site the location within the Indonesian Constitution. You make it increasingly obvious that you have not actually read the Indonesian Constitution. The language in which I am referring to can be found in Chapter 8, Article 31, Sections 1-2, and Chapter 9, Article 34, Section 1-4.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
All it says is: Chapter XIII Ch 31 (1) "Every citizen shall have the right to an education." (1)
(2) "The government shall establish and operate a national education system which shall be provided for by law."
Chap XIV Article 34 (Only has 1 section):
"The poor as well as destitute children shall be cared for by the state."
You got the Chap numbers wrong and NO WHERE in there does it say you *have to* be an Indonesian citizen to attend school.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant You seem to be quite mistaken. Chapter 14, Article 34 has 4 sections.
(1) Impoverished persons and abandoned children shall be taken care of by the
State.
(2) The state shall develop a system of social security for all of the people and
shall empower the inadequate and underprivileged in society in accordance with
human dignity.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Chapter 14, Article 34 continued:
(3) The state shall have the obligation to provide sufficient medical and public
service facilities.
(4) Further provisions in relation to the implementation of this Article shall be
regulated by law.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
Which also has nothing to do with having to be a citizen in order to attend school...
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant I already addressed education in Indonesia.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant: LOL. You clearly do not know or understand the facts. The "online" certificate you're referring to is a Cert of Live Birth (COLB), frequently issued to foreigners in Hawaii. Secondly, you have the information on "renouncing US citizenship" completely mangled. His mother remarried & moved to Indonesia, there are records indicating he was nationalized there. Whether born in the US or Kenya, Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship. He would've lost US citizenship.
2010GOP 1 year ago
@2010GOP
Actually it is you that has a problem with facts. The COLB is a valid, official, State issued, Certified birth certificate. Since the Hawaii Dept of Health went paperless in 2001, they no longer issue "long form" or photo copies of paper birth certificates. It is their current issue standard birth certificate.
Hawaii is not going to issue birth certificates saying you were born there if you weren't. Thats more birther myth.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@2010GOP
I'd like to see the records of him being "nationalized" in Indonesia. You're right about Indonesia not allowing dual citizenship. The key thing is, the law only pertains to adults. He never lost US citizenship nor was he ever an Indonesian citizen.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Obama's mother expatriated her U.S. citizenship when she married Lolo Soetoro. Both, her and Obama relocated to Indonesia. Because the Nationality Act of 1940 also provided that a minor became naturalized (in the other country) upon the naturalization of his or her parent having custody of such person, Obama became expatriated by virtue of his mother's marriage and their subsequent relocation to Indonesia.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
The fact that Obama's mother married Lolo Soetoro and may have given up her US citizenship had no bearing on Obama's citizenship. The law you cited was outdated. Obama never lost his US citizenship. He would've had to renounce US citizenship as an adult and sworn allegiance to Indonesia. He could not do that as a minor and his parents could not do it for him.
The following several posts will contain the applicable laws in place at the time.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@madehero2007
The following quote shows that even if Stanley Ann Dunham gave up her US citizenship that Barack could not lose his unless he was 21 years old or older.
The 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, Title III, Chapter 3, Section 355, says:
"A person having United States nationality, who is under the age of twenty-one and whose residence is in a foreign state with or under the legal custody of a parent who hereafter loses United States nationality under section 350 or 352
Cont'd
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@madehero2007
Cont'd of this title, shall also lose his United States nationality if such person has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state: Provided, That, in such case, United States nationality shall not be lost as the result of loss of United States nationality by the parent unless and until the person attains the age of twenty-five years without having established his residence in the United States."
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago 2
@arrrogantlyignorant I find it odd that your quote does not directly match the wording used in the law itself. That being said, according to the law you site, the child's nationality can legally be changed by the guardian or parent. The nationality of the child will also change if the parent or guardian is over the age of 21. Obama's mother was 25 when they moved to Indonesia, which means that Obama's citizenship status would have changed just like his mother's.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
You're trying to apply the age "21" to Ann Dunham. Its refering to Obama, not his mother.
Obama was never an Indonesian citizen.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant According to Indonesian law, Obama was considered an Indonesian citizen. This is solely due to the citizenship status of Lolo Soetoro, which would directly impact the citizenship status of Ann Dunham, thus directly impacting the citizenship status of Barrack Obama. United States law states that citizenship status is lost if the individual gains citizenship status of a foreign nation.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
He did not lose US citizenship. Because he was born in Hawaii on US soil, he could not lose citizenship as a child unless he was under 5. I already posted the applicable laws which you misread.
Let me add that there is no proof that Ann Dunham became an Indonesian citizen. This would make the law you cited (Law No. 62 of 1958, Law on the Citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia. Article 13 (2) ...... irrelevant.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant I already addressed the laws which you attempted to incorrectly translate. Ann Dunham married an Indonesian citizen, which would make her an Indonesian citizen, assuming that she decide to reside in Indonesia, which she did. Her citizenship status in Indonesia directly affects that of her son.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
Its more probable that Ann Dunham was a resident of Indonesia and not a citizen.
Do you have proof that she was a citizen of Indonesia?
I already showed you why Obama was never an Indonesian citizen.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant According to Indonesian law, she would have become a citizen. You did not show me why Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. You simply made an inaccurate claim based on an inaccurate interpretation of a US law. I showed you the text within the Indonesian constitution that showed Obama had to have been an Indonesian citizen. I also showed you the Indonesian law stating that his mother would have been a citizen, making him a citizen.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
You didnt do either. You tried to tell me the first law I cited was talking about Ann Dunhams age when it was referring to the child.
Then you're operating on the pretext that Ann Dunham was a Indonesian citizen but offer no proof that was true.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Actually, I did. Now, provide proof that she was not an Indonesian citizen. According to Indonesia law, she would become a citizen following her marriage and relocation because of her husband's citizenship status.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
I'm not going to try to disprove something that you cannot prove to begin with.
Marriage is not going to change a US citizen's citizenship status. They would need to go through a naturalization process. You have proof that Ann Dunham did that?
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant I have already proven that Ann Dunham had to have become an Indonesian citizen, and Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship. You seem to be unable to disprove something that I have proven. Basic Indonesian and United States law shows that her citizenship status would have changed based on her actions.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
Sorry but you did not prove Ann Dunham actually became an Indonesian citizen. She wouldn't become one simply by marrying Lolo Soetoro and moving there. She would've had to renounce her US citizenship first, which you have not proven that she did. Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. He would've had to renounce his US citizenship also, which could not be done as a minor.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant You can make the same claim time and time again, but that won't change anything. I have proven that, according to Indonesian and U.S. law, Ann Dunhham was an Indonesian citizen. She either broke Indonesian law, U.S. law, both, or she became an Indonesian citizen. For some reason, you continually assume that you have to renounce US citizenship in order to lose it, but that is not the case.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
You didn't prove anything. Stanley Ann Dunham was a natural born American citizen.
There are no records that indicate she ever became an Indonesian citizen.
Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship, therefore she could not become an Indonesian citizen without first renouncing US citizenship.
Because Obama was born in the Hawaii (US soil) he could not lose his US citizenship as a minor. He was back in Hawaii at age 10, way before he became an adult.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant I never said that Dunham was not born in America. However, I have already proven with Indonesia and U.S. law that she had to have become an Indonesian citizen. I have also already discussed the affects that this would have on Obama's citizenship.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
I didn't say you did. You didn't prove anything. You assume a whole lot but the facts point the other way. Because Ann Dunham was a US citizen, she could not become an Indonesian without first renouncing US citizenship. Thats what Article 7 (1) says. She could not make a statement affirming she was a citizen of Indonesia while "she possesses still another nationality"
(No dual citizenship, which you stated yourself)
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant What facts? You are going solely on assumptions as well. At least my assumptions are based on U.S. and Indonesian law. Article 7 Section 2 is still applicable to Dunham. It comments on exceptions listed in Section 1, but it does not say that Section 1 supersedes Section 2. If the wife does not make a statement within the first year and the husband has not made a statement, then the wife gains citizenship status. Neither individual made such statements.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
Sorry but you are simply incorrect.
Article 7 (2) CLEARLY states: "With the exception as mentioned in para 1"
Ann Dunham could not make a statement affirming Indonesian citizenship without first renouncing US citizenship (which there is NO evidence of).
This is CLEARLY stated in Article 7 (1). "while she possesses still another nationality"..
That would make a statement or lack thereof, by Lolo Soetoro irrielevant.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant I have already shown why you are incorrect. You are going based off of a misinterpretation of Indonesian Law. Which is why I sited Indonesian Family Law and their simplification.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
What you think younshowed me is not true. I'm not going "based off a misrepresentation of Indonesian law", you are. Your trying to cite this Indonesian family law is just an attempt throw a smoke screen. What is relevant here is the US Immigration and Indonesian citizenship laws, which I've cited.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Not true? That is a fascinating claim, but I have sited Indonesian Immigration Law and Indonesian Family Law. I've sited both, U.S. and Indonesian immigration Law, and they both provide the same conclusion. Dunham had to have gained Indonesian citizenship status, thus losing her U.S. citizenship status.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
You have it backwards. Ann Dunham would have to renounce US citizenship FIRST. Then she could become an Indonesian citizen. There is no evidence that she did so. She never became an Indonesian citizen, she remained a US citizen.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@madehero2007
Law No. 62 of 1958:
Article 7.
(1)A foreign woman married to a citizen of the Republic of Indonesia, acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia, if and when she makes a statement as to that effect within 1 year after contracting said marriage, except in case when she acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia she possesses still another nationality, in which case the statement may not be made.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant You forgot to mention section 2 of Article 7.
(2)With the exception as mentioned in para 1 the foreign woman who marries a citizen of the Republic of Indonesia also acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia one year after the marriage has been contracted, if within that one year her husband does not make a statement as to release his citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
Earlier in the discussion you cited Law No 62 Article 13 (2). Because Ann Dunham was never an Indonesian citizen, that does not apply.
Here you tried to cite Article 7 (2).... the first line says: "With the exception as mentioned in para 1"
I cited Article 7 (1) last night.
That very exception applied to Ann Dunham's situation, therefore Article 7 (2) did not apply to her.
That proves she was never an Indonesian citizen. Obama was never an Indonesian citizen either.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Her husband made no such statements, and she was in Indonesia for much longer than one year.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
That isn't really relevant since Article 7 (2) was not applicable.
Also, the 1980 divorce decree of Stanley Ann Soetoro and Lolo Soetoro states "mother and child are US citizens, while father an Indonesian citizen."
You didn't prove anything. Ann Dunham was never an Indonesian citizen, neither was her son Barack Obama II.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Indonesian Family Law clarifies by stating " The foreign wife, however, will obtain the Indonesian nationality if within one year of the marriage, she declares her intention to become an Indonesian national, provided that she will not be holding another nationality. Such declaration is to be submitted to the competent District court or the Indonesian Embassy."
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
Ann Dunham WAS holding another nationality. She was a US citizen that never renounced her citizenship. Show me the evidence that she did.
It is impossible that she became an Indonesian citizen without first renouncing US citizenship.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant It does not matter if Dunham was holding another nationality. According to Indonesian Law, she would have become an Indonesian citizen, which would have forced her to lose U.S. citizenship status. You merely call it impossible, misinterpret Indonesian Law, and make baseless claims because you do not want to face the fact that Dunham became an Indonesian citizen.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
It surely does matter that Ann Dunham was holding another nationality. According to Indonesian law, she could not make a statement affirming Indonesian citizenship "while still possessing another nationality", which would be her US citizenship.
Its not a baseless claim. Obama Jr never was an Indonesian citizen, neither was his mother. That is fact, not a baseless claim.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Indonesian Family Law continued: "If the foreign wife has not made such declaration to opt, she will nevertheless acquire Indonesian nationality after the first year of marriage, provided that the Indonesian husband has not in the meantime renounced his nationality."
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
Basically the same thing it says in Article 7 (2), which I already proved is irrelevant.
Ann Dunham was never an Indonesian citizen. Neither was Barack Obama Jr.
You can pretzel twist and deny as much as you want but it won't change those facts.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Actually, the simplification makes mention of the language between the two sections, which shows that section 2 is relevant in Dunham's case. You can claim that Dunham and Obama were not Indonesian citizens all you want; however, that will not change the fact that you are misinterpreting Indonesian law, which I have already proven.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
I haven't misrepresented anything. You on the other hand have done exactly that and you didn't prove that Ann Dunham OR Barack Jr were ever Indonesian citizens.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant You are simply making the same repetitive claims. I will only say this one more time. According to Indonesian Law, Dunham would have gained Indonesian citizenship status, which would result in the loss of her U.S. citizenship status. This has been proven using U.S. and Indoensian Immigration Law. Your misinterpretations of the law will not change the fact that Dunham had to have gained Indonesian citizenship status, thus losing U.S. citizenship status.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
Wrong, according to Indonesian law, Ann Dunham had to renounce her US citizenship FIRST in order to become an Indonesian citizen. You didn't prove that she became one but I certainly proved she didn't. I noticed that you ignored what I posted about her divorce decree with Lolo Soetoro. She and Barack Jr were "listed as US citizens, the father an Indonesian citizen". There are no naturalization records for them in 1980 which means NEITHER lost their US citizenship.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Actually, I did prove that based on her actions and both, US and Indonesian Immigration Law, as well as Indonesian Family Law that she would have become an Indonesian citizen, thus losing her US citizenship status. You can repeat the same statement over and over, but you are still misinterpreting Indonesian law. There is a lot of information about Obama that is conveniently missing. Have you been able to find a statement to the Indonesian government from Lolo Soetoro?
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
"You can repeat the same statement over and over"
Oh? You mean like you're doing?? Ann Dunham could not become a citizen of Indonesia without first renouncing her US citizenship.
She could not make a statement affirming Indonesian citizenship "while still possessing another nationality."
Lolo Soetoro didnt make a statement because Article 7 (2) was irrelevant because the exception in Art 7 (1) applied to Ann Dunhams situation.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@madehero2007
It is interesting that in the last several posts you made, you didn't mention Barack Obama's citizenship. You've been pretending so hard that his mother became an Indonesian citizen, when there is no evidence that she did.
Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. His mother wasnt one either.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@madehero2007
Cont'd
The following section cities applicable Indonesian Citizenship law IF Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro.
Law No. 62 of 1958, Law on the Citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia
"Article 2.
(1)A foreign child of less than 5 years age who is adopted by a citizen of the Republic of Indonesia acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia, if such an adoption is declared legal by the Pengadilan Negeri at the residence of the person adopting the child."
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant
Obama was 6 years old when they moved to Indonesia, so he was over the age limit ("less than 5 years age"). He returned to Hawaii at age 10.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago 2
@arrrogantlyignorant Perhaps you should read the law in its entirety. Obama was not an adopted child. Law No. 62 of 1958, Law on the Citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia. Article 13 states "Article 13.
"(2)The citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia acquired by a mother also applies to her children who have no legal family relationship with the father, who have not reached the age of 18 and are not married yet after they have resided and are in Indonesia."
madehero2007 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant I have already discussed his birth certificate, and you simply provided the same quote as before. All presidential candidates have had to provide proof of being born in the United States. You can order a birth certificate online. The only requirements are, you must provide a copy of your drivers license and pay a small fee.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
What "same quote" are you referring to?
Obama provided his birth certificate. It's been available online for more than two years.
Obama was vetted the exact same way that every other Presidential candidate was. The people that do that already accepted him as eligible. If you disagree with them, you need to go after the process, not the man.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant I suggest that you take a closer look at the posted "copy" of Obama's birth certificate. It more closely resembles that of a later issued version, and very little like a mere photocopy of an actual 1961 birth certificate.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
I don't need to take a closer look at it. I know it came from 2007. The Hawaii Dept of Health no longer issues "long form" or photocopies of paper birth certificates. Since they went paperless in 2001, they only issue the COLB. It is their current standard State issued, certified birth certificate. Welcome to the digital age.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant You made that claim before. The problem is that even the "paperless" method typically used for Hawaii does not mach with the document presented by Obama. That being said, scanning an original document would use no paper and would take mere seconds.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
I said it before because thats the policy of the Dept of Health.
What exactly do you mean by "does not match with the document presented by Obama"??
Have you ever read HRS §338-18? Just because a certain document exists, doesnt mean that Obama is obligated to show it to you.
What he provided is a valid, official, State issued, Certified birth certificate.
Hawaii has issued multiple statements backing his birth there.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant You can repeat that claim as often as you like, but you should look at an actual Hawaiian state issued birth certificate from 2007 and from 1961. Obama's birth certificate matches neither one. That being said, I am well aware of what the law states. However, it would be quite simple to produce a scanned copy of the original, which would not harm any trees and would hardly inconvenience anyone.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
How exactly is Obama''s birth certificate different from a Hawaiian state issued birth certificate from 2007??
What part of "they no longer issue "long form" or photo copies of paper birth certificates" do you not understand?
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Are you really that dense? I understand perfectly what you are saying. However, you seem incapable of comprehending the fact that I have compared his document to that of a 2007 issued document. It is missing a state seal and the individual at the registrar that processed it. That being said, you seem to not understand what I am saying. Even if they have gone "paperless," it would not require the use of any paper to make a scanned copy of the document.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
Exactly which document are you looking at??
The images on factcheck clearly show the embossed State seal and the stamped signature of the registrar (Alvin Onaka).
You really expect the Hawaii Dept of Health to scan a document "just because its simple to produce"??? Look at how many idiots claim the current one is forged.
Why would Hawaii do that when they already issued a valid, official, State issued, Certified birth certificate that is prima face evidence he was born there?
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant So why does he refuse to provide a LONG FORM bc?? Why has he spent over a million dollars hiding school records,thesis writings,baptism records and everything else he refuses to show? Would YOU be willing to spend that kind of money if you were not HIDING SOMETHING??
mcap52 1 year ago
@mcap52
For one, because what he provided already is legally sufficient. Secondly, Hawaii no longer issues "long form" or photo copies of paper birth certificates.
What evidence do you have that he spent "over a million"?? Cite please.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Actually, factcheck shows both images separately from a zoomed out image of Obama's birth certificate. If you look closely at the copy being held by someone from fact check, the stamp and seal cannot be seen. Even the "copy" on the Obama website is missing the stamp and seal. Conveniently enough, the people at fact check are able to hold the document when a mere scanned copy cannot be released? I find that hard to believe.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
So what exactly are you saying?? Seems like you're splitting hairs to me.
Are you saying its a forgery?
If so, why did Hawaii issue multiple statements backing his birth there?
Shouldnt they be prosecuting him instead, for using a forged state document?
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant If they were the ones to issue a false document, why would they readily admit it? He visited Hawaii to receive the document; however, that does not prove that he is Hawaiian born. At any given time, you can receive a birth certificate from any US state. It is quite simple, and I already explained to you how it can be done.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
So you are contending that the Dept of Health lied? The Governor of Hawaii lied?
How do you explain the newspaper birth announcements that appeared in two different news papers in 1961? Obama's family "planted" those because they knew that newborn baby would run for President in 40+ years?
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Do you simply copy and paste your arguments from other websites? It is quite possible to produce micro film or alter it. I'm not saying that that is what happened, but it is possible. As for the Department of Health and the Governor, I have never been one to trust politicians or government agencies. They could easily prove their "honesty" by allowing the issuance of a scanned copy of the original document.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Why would the Hawaiian health department not do something that is so simple that could resolve this matter once and for all? I find it fascinating that you call those that question the document's legality idiots, when all you are capable of is repeating statements posted on other websites.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
Because they are bound by HRS 338-18. I thought you said you read it?
You've asked the same thing repeatedly, where if you had read it, you would know the answer.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant I have read the law. A court order to force the issuance of the original document, but the Supreme Court, Eric Holder, and many lower level federal courts continually ignore the case. I can ask the question as frequently as I want, but that won't take away from the fact that I have read the law. There are many things you say repeatedly, does that mean that you really don't know what you are talking about?
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
The reason SCOTUS and/or Holder ignore the "case" is because its ridiculous.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Interesting. I did not realize that you were the person that got to make those decisions. In fact, the case involved the highest political offices and the potential forgery of federal documents, which makes it a valid case. You simply claim that it is ridiculous because you have already made up your mind pertaining to this topic.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant You continually call it "a valid, official, state issued, certified birth certificate, that is prima facie evidence he was born there." It is as if you believe adding all of those words will make the statement more valid. That being said, there are multiple individuals with credible backgrounds that question the legality of the issued document.
madehero2007 1 year ago
@madehero2007
I can't help it if "multiple individuals with credible backgrounds" are stupid.
I add the words because they're true. It is a legally adequate birth certificate.
It says, "This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding. [HRS 338-13(b), 338-19]"
It says the same thing on mine, which has been legally adequate for ANY situation that required me to show a valid birth certificate.
arrrogantlyignorant 1 year ago
@arrrogantlyignorant That is odd. You make it sound as though you are the sole determining factor in one's intelligence. Stupidity can be defined as lacking interest or point, as well as lacking intelligence or reasoning. You have been lacking much, which can be seen throughout our conversation. I know what the base of the document says; however, that quote can be place on any document. I could right it on a piece of scratch paper. That won't make it a true statement though.
madehero2007 1 year ago