this made me miss arcades, my first arcade memory was watching sf be played (im 20 now) and the crowds it brought. i dont even think theres an arcade in my city anymore, mabey just a pladium.
@Bananadine I never can understand why some people are unable to see the difference between "do all you can to win, WITHIN THE RULES OF THE GAME" and "do anything and everything to win, without limitations".
No one calls a halfback pass unfair in football, no one says bluffing in poker is cheating, no one says stealing bases is actually theft. Only in video games do people create their own rules of what shouldn't be allowed --within the game--.
@bobdonda aw come on it's not so special for people to frown on a technically legal move because it's dishonorable or something--I just read about that happening after a World Cup match
scrubs are often complainers
and if you think there aren't scrubs in poker... well then where do the pros get all their money?????
@Bananadine well you are right, I guess it's not ONLY fighting games where it happens... people do complain about diving in soccer, and about too-violent play (which doesn't always get caught).
honestly it's a part of the game and you can't blame the players for using it. it's slightly different though, since over 90% of fans agree there need to be harsher penalties because it's getting too common. it's not like in SF where there's a tiny group of people making up their own list of "cheap"
@Bananadine and btw I never said there are no scrubs in poker (there are lots of them). but in poker the scrubs don't say "checkraising is cheap, it's a low down dirty trick and you're a scumbag who only cares about winning, I hope you never have a family because you have no morals in life"
@bobdonda Only in video games are the participants a series of binary digits that can be manipulated as such, unlike human beings, who must obey the laws of physics and rationality. Comparing human beings with binary code - look at the pot calling the ketle black, Mr. Enron!
Their is also a small minority of players that want to change the mechanics of the game as well because they feel the game is "unbalanced," "unfair," or "doesn't make any sense." One of the more absurd things I heard was to make all attacks hit on the very first frame it is activated because it doesn't make any sense for someone to "safe jump" or be unable to jab out of a throw. Point is, not everyone is going to understand why things happen in a game, no matter how much you explain.
what? how was i saying that unsuspecting things happen without explanation? i was saying that some people don't understand why things happen no matter how you explain it to them.
@sakura4994 Block stun is always going to be annoying because casual players will never understand why their character won't stop blocking after they stop holding block. I find it really annoying as well as I believe that unless I used a move that had recovery (understandable) blocking should not have to worry about recovering since you already successfully blocked (which should be rewarded with an immediate chance to respond). I also prefer games that let you cancel into other moves a lot more.
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bobdonda - shut up, no person or job gives a fuck about your SF knowledge. I hate stubborn know-it-all types.
jbriggs - cheap shit exists in 99% of fighting games. There are two types of high levels, people who play to win but doesn't feel content with doing "cheap" shit to get a win and people who treat every match as if the cure for cancer is on the line.
I won't say I hate the players but getting thrown for an entire match is gay when nothing worthwhile is on the line
Instead of bitching and crying about things being unfair because so-and-so cheated, try to counter them and perhaps give them a taste of their own medicine. You know, actually compete a little bit?
I'm not bitching and crying at all he brought up an 8 month old argument. I know how to play the game and I can stop this stuff that's why I can attest to it not being fun because I experienced it
no offense briggs but i have to side with bob on this one. you do whatever it takes to win, regardless of what some may consider cheap or cheating. that is the reason fighting games exist, and that, literally, is the reason they are fun. guarantee you the guy who masters all of these "flaws" as you have dubbed them, is going to have a hell of a lot of "fun" owning people who refuse to utilize all of the tools at their disposal, much like yourself.
@Andins Fuck that shit. I have a spine. I do not need to stroke my ego by winning by whatever it takes. That is what fuckin pussies do. Actually skirts would be a more fitting word. That sort of activity also makes you a sadist. So you have mental issues. Well done.
@AmanOU2be You are the definition of a scrub. "I try to win, but only a little bit."
If you were on a track team in high school, for the 100 yard dash did you run sort of fast but not TOO fast because it might not give the other runners a chance?
If you were on the football team did you plan to score some points but not too many? Did you use good plays, but not your most effective plays because it might be hard for the other team to stop them?
@bobdonda You are still having problems discerning skill from unfair balancing/advantages. Ridiculous windows of opportunity are at hand too. If your track star only had 1/60th of a second to overtake his rival or lose the heat/race and he lost, I find it hard to believe all would be hunky dory.
@AmanOU2be Well, that's the nature of the game. The game allows people to use tactics that are difficult to counter. It's fine to not like that kind of game... but play a different game, instead of complaining at someone who is doing nothing more than using a good strategy.
@bobdonda Thats the issue. You have this wrong idea of good strategy. Even in war there are rules. If breaking those to win a war is "good stratregy" to you then I think I will never get through to you. Its not even the game. Its the players. I do not do whatever it takes to win and do not like playing those people. I never know how far they will go either.
@AmanOU2be I completely agree with everything you just said to me. But some people seem to not understand that the things being complained about are within the rules of the game.
tick-throws = within the rules of the game. it's part of the game itself and nothing is wrong with using it
fireball traps = within the rules of the game
hitting opponent's controller = NOT within the rules, should never be allowed, it's wrong to ever do this.
punching opponent in the face = NOT within the rules
@bobdonda But other items are within the "whatever it takes to win" category. I am glad you would not do those. But we disagree about what is fine in the game. There is stuff that is in the gmae but has not been fixed or Backbone feels it is fine. All that means is that BACKBONE thinks it is fine. This is why o.Sagat and Gouki get banned. THEY ARE NOT FINE. Now the stuff you list up there is liked by far too many people to get taken out. But then again look at SF4 AE.
@AmanOU2be Things are either in the game or they aren't. That is how you know what's fine to use. If it's in the game you can use it.
With any rule, there are rare exceptions. Akuma is banned in ST, game-freezing glitches are banned in other games. When the entire community agrees that something is completely gamebreaking, it is ok to ban it from competition. (This has never included fireball traps or throws or O.Sagat.)
BTW I don't know what Backbone is, but it isn't relevant.
@bobdonda Just because something is not accepted by all/many, does not mean it is not an exception. Its like a theory that has not been proven into a law. The theory may be 100% correct. O. Sagat (iirc) was banned in some tournies.
@AmanOU2be Until the community-wide rules are changed, it is OK to use whatever is allowed. This is just how things work.
People deciding for themselves what is allowed and isn't allowed, that is not how things work. You can't decide that stabbing people in the face is allowed. You can't decide that blocking shots in basketball isn't allowed.
You follow the rules of the game/sport/legal system, and you don't get to complain about other people ("no fair blocking my shot!")
@AmanOU2be But what you can't do is ban things from just your own games, based on only your own opinions, and expect other people to follow those rules. There would be millions of insane versions of SF and you'd never know what your opponent's personal rules are. It would be fucking retarded.
You can't decide on what is fine using personal opinion. That's why the rules are decided by the game itself. That's why all sports, all games, and all legal systems work this way.
@bobdonda Well then they need to be more active in policing the game. More nerfs and more buffs.
Plus you cannot compare this to much of real life because real life does not always work in the confines of game code. I CAN bring a gun to a knife fight. Chun CANNOT start throwing air fireballs.
I do not expect people to follow MY rules. But I would prefer that the "win at all costs' shit stops. I know neither will happen.
@AmanOU2be Some people would prefer a more active "policing" of the game, but that's irrelevant. If you choose to play a game or sport, you are choosing to compete under the existing rules. If you don't like that, then don't play.
A "gun to a knife fight" analogy doesn't work, because that entire situation exists outside of any rules.
"Win at all costs(as long as you don't break rules)" is the nature of competition itself. If you don't get this, you don't understand what competition is about.
It does, I do it all the time. Especially bisons jumping strong kicks. But the piano inputs, is really hard on HD remix, it isn't as easy. But everything else is true. I don't know about T.Hawk and Zangief since I use shoto chars, charge and chars that have no projectile attacks, (Ken, Bison, Cammy)
i've never had a problem doing the piano in HD, I mean I use a basic ps3 controller so I adapt with only two buttons instead of three. But other than that, I see no problems.
Actually Cammy (In HD Remix), Fierce Cannon Spike = Little distance if blocked, small cannon spike = large distance if blocked. That's why I love Ken, his multiple hit grabs = quite a piss off.
I hate it when people whine about cheap hits, I find it fun in trying to beat such cheap tactics. I guess it's about using common sense and only a mindless button basher would complain about button bashing.
It's funny how you all assume that I don't know how to play just because I say its cheap. I know how to do MOST not all but most of this stuff. when I win a fight because of it its just not fun. Like I said in FRIENDLY matches. Just beating everyone over and over using this cheap stuff isn't fun and that my opinion.
Yes but playing an opponent that knows how to counter it, is fun and as much fun as the game allows. You have to be good at it to play that game of strategy and mind games.
"You have to be good at it to play that game of strategy and mind games." Once again I know how to do most of these strategies. I've used them myself which is how I came to the conclusion that it wasn't fun.
It is a competition level of play, where winning is the goal, so it fails at being a laid back fun type of game. Alot of people do enjoy the challenge though.
Actually when i first got HDR, it was my first time playing since the arcade days and i found it exactly how you did, but then i saw the depth these guys had taken it to and enjoyed getting my teeth into it. Im amazed how much i've developed.
Yea I stated in a few post back that if you're going to do the competition or tournament thing then that's fine but why use this stuff in friendly matches. That was my point, that this video was showing people how to be cheap now when ever I want a friendly match its just comes down to who's the cheapest.. Doing the same move over and over the whole match... that sucks and isn't fun in my opinion.
Some people think having fun is better than just winning.
Some people think winning is better than just having fun.
Some people think losing, as long as they maintaned their code of honor is more fun, than winning without.
In the end, only one person gets to go home with the trophy. Only one person's name gets recorded amongst the best of the best. The others go home with their code.
Is it so wrong for me to not see the fun in taking down opponent's doing the same thing over and over? Like I've said for the millionth time I'm speaking of friendly matches not tournaments. I understand that in tournaments as long as you follow the rules its fair game but is it really necessary to use these cheap strategies in a match that wont matter at the end of the day? Just like in chess I wont use the Scholar's mate in a friendly match. It would beat 75% of non competitive chess players.
I'm sorry but you have no concept of what a competitive game is for. The fun and excitement of the game is when both of you go all out when trying to win, and seeing who can out-think and out-maneuver the opponent.
What fun is it to play chess and just goof around and do random moves? If you lose you think "I could have won if I wanted to". Pointless.
Instead, use Scholar's mate... they will soon learn to avoid it and counter it. Soon you'll have an opponent who can provide a real challenge.
Who said anything about doing random stuff? There is a difference between doing a dragon punch if you opponent keeps jumping and walking into the match knowing if I do combo x over and over then I'll win every time. I play chess and I've never once used the scholar's mate on some poor noob just because I know how. As I've stated many many times I'm speaking of friendly play not tournament competitions.
What is there to enjoy about friendly play, if neither player is actually trying to win the game? You're just moving pieces around, there's no strategy, no one is trying to win and no one learns anything.
If you used scholar's mate on a new player, I think he would be impressed by that trick. He would want to learn how to use it, and learn how to counter it, and it would increase his interest in chess.
Then after he learns how to stop your easy wins, you have a challenging opponent to play.
Just because ts friendly play doesn't mean we aren't trying to win. I play chess with noobs all the time and the fact that the matches last longer than 3 moves is the reason why they keep coming back. I discovered the scholar's mate from watching other people. They all quit and stopped playing with the guy who kept using it to win because t wasn't fun anymore. Not everyone who play competitive games get better and improve their skills because that type of dedication isn't always fun for people
But you aren't trying to win. You choose not to use effective strategies that lead to you winning the game. That means that your goal is something other than winning.
Your goal seems to be some vague definition of "fun", which is apparently achieved when neither playing is trying very hard and you're just moving stuff around. Eventually one of you will win, but not because you were trying hard to make that happen.
This seems completely pointless and I cannot see what fun there is in it.
Choosing not to cheat is not cheap. What about anybody that didn't use the falcons in madden 04? Vick was so fast that the entire balance was unfair. Yet everyone who played didn't instantly pick the falcons and run with Vick every play. Does that mean they weren't really trying to win? Of course not. Instead of trying to psychoanalyze me why not really read what I'm typing? If I pick player x and spam punch I could win every time. Does that mean not spamming punch means I don't want to win? no.
@bobdonda God, what a terrifying view of the world you have. Winnig is everything, and anything that is not winning is undesireable. What a horrible parent, teacher, or leader of any kind you would make. Process, content, you do not fathom them. I pity you, I truly pity you and your small, horrible existence, like an animal.
@qloey God, what a horrible strawman argument you have. Making shit up and pretending your opponent believes in it is everything, and responding to what was actually said is undesireable.
What a horrible critical thinker you would make. Logic, reasoning, you do not fathom them. I pity you, I truly pity you and your laughable excuses such as "I'm morally superior" for your inability to win at video games.
@bobdonda Also, your excessive use of terms such as "moral" and "holy" speaks, I think, to your own internal dilemma on those issues. That you are even able to defend indefensible techniques, speaks volumes about you. There are even rules of war, you know? Like not attacking civilian populations. These get compromised all the time, but your logic would have it that they are to be encouraged actively, because they advance the purpose of winning. "You won the war, but lost the peace."
@qloey My own internal dilemma? On what? Defending indefensible techniques... like what? Rules of war? What in the blue hell are you even talking about? I can't understand what point you are trying to make.
Here's my point - you seem unable to draw the line between the real life harming of other human beings, and playing to win in a harmless video game contest.
You fail to understand that a person can compete hard in games, but in real life not be a "destroy everyone else to get ahead" person
Where do you find this "fun" in just screwing around and doing random moves because you feel like it?
Suppose you were watching the Super Bowl, and both teams constantly were trying trick plays and risky moves. Lots of fumbles and INTs, and no serious competition. Would that be nearly as fun to watch as a real competition?
The true enjoyment of fighting games comes from two players attempting to out-do each other and seeing who can outsmart the other one this time.
Firstly even if I was talking about "just screwing around and doing random moves because you feel like it"(I wasn't) fun is subjective so your thoughts don't trump mine. Secondly " watching the Super Bowl" is in no way a comparison to playing a random match of SF with a friend for fun. Lastly the true enjoyment of fighting games is defined by the person who's playing less than 1% of the people who buy SF will have ever compete professionally and they still find true enjoyment.
Like I said, you have no concept of the fun of competition.
You are not playing to win... so that means your goal is something other than emptying your opponent's lifebar. You are setting your own goals, such as trying to land fancy combos, or who knows what else.
If you are not playing with the goal of winning, I call that "screwing around and doing random moves". You inexplicably find this to be enjoyable.
And that's fine... but don't criticize others who want to play the actual game.
and like I said there is a difference between between tournament play and friendly play. You can have a friendly series of matches like first to 10 and I'd try to win but using cheap exploits isn't fun. If its a tournament then you do what you must and winning is fun. There is a distenct difference in tryng to win and winning at all cost. Most people who just want a good time but would like to win also would stop playing wth me if I used the same cheap moves over and over to win all the time.
Who determines what a "cheap exploit" is? The definition of cheap exists only in your own mind. What if someone else says all fireballs are cheap, but you don't think so? Is there an official list of "cheap moves" somewhere?
You dislike these moves because they are very effective at achieving the goal of winning the game. Why?
Why are some moves "cheap" and others aren't? Why is a fireball (a useful, effective move) not cheap, while throw ticks aren't?
Those cheap moves are flaws in the games design that's why they are cheap. In this sf game you can pick e honda and if you face a bison you'll be unstoppable as the ocho throw can't be stopped by him if you get bison in the corner. That's cheap. Its the same in playing sf4 if I pick akuma and lag my connection on purpose then jump fire ball the entire match its unstoppable. The game wasn't designed to play that way and that's why its cheap.
Who are you to decide what the game designers intended?
Why do DPs not hit on the first four frames? There must be a reason... I think they were intended to work exactly the way they do, including allowing safe option select jumpins.
If Bison has an ugly situation vs Honda in the corner... maybe Bison needs to not get knocked down in the corner.
If you think intentionally causing lag is the same thing as using in-game moves that the designers included on purpose... you're just hopeless.
The game designers already stated that most of these things were not intentional That's why in the newer games they were taken out. If you watch the interviews or listen to the podcast the designers are on they tell you most of these flaws wasn't discovered until years after the game was created that's why if SF4 and other newer games they were taken out because they are glitches. Lke the madden example I gave you or the glitch on gears of war 2 or COD:MW
and? what specifically are the "most of these things" that you think were not intentional gameplay design, and were later removed from the series?
I'll just save some time and stop trying to drag an explanation out of you... you were just making stuff up in an attempt to show that the designers agreed with you, so you must be right.
it didn't work, because you don't know anything about SF. gg
I already told you the e honda ocho throw the vega claw drop the cross ups the ryu fire balls they were unstoppable if used correctly and over and over. Thats not true with SF4 or any of the alpha games. Watch the intermediate video.
So you're telling me that Ryu's fireballs were unstoppable (wrong), Honda's ochio was unstoppable (wrong), and Vega's claw dive was unstoppable (wrong).
And you're telling me that Ryu's fireballs, Honda's ochio, and Vega's claw dive were removed from future SF games (wrong).
you obviously are the moron... the focus lets you negate the fire balls so spamming them no longer wins the match. The ochio throw (and all throws) can't be comboed in sf4 so the light punch ochio throw is no longer an easy win. vegas claw dived was weakened so it no longer takes such a huge amount of life. Those moves may not have been unstoppable but they were very unfair which is why they were toned down
2) the ochio could never be comboed, and never meant an easy win.
3) Vega's wall dive never dealt a a huge amount of damage, and it's as strong as ever in SF4.
you're pretty much flat out wrong with everything you say, you just keep making up new stuff in some kind of hope to prove that you weren't wrong, but it never works because you know nothing about SF.
Ask any vega player they'll tell you how much his attacks were lowered. I've witnessed with my own eyes hundreds of wins from spamming fireballs. What exactly do you call the light punch into ochio throw? With zangief you could light punch light kick throw I've done it many times if you try that in sf 4 the throw will miss
I don't need to "ask any Vega player", I'll just use facts. In ST, the wall dive does close to the same amount of damage as a fierce punch. In SF4, the wall dive does... close to the same damage as a fierce punch.
Nothing has changed about it. BTW you're the only person I've ever heard of who has called Vega's wall dive "cheap".
I call jab into ochio "jab into ochio". It sure as hell isn't a combo.
If you do it in SF4 the throw will not miss. Nothing was changed. You're 100% wrong AGAIN.
vegas attacks are weaker than they used to be I know that for a fact and jab into ochio throw was a combo because after the jab your couldnt stop the throw thats the definition of a combo in gaming Using the vega wall dive is not cheap in its self but you could do it over and over and then it becomes cheap. When was the last time you played sf4? You cant hit anyone right before a special throw like spinning piledriver or ochio throw it will miss just because you say im wrong doesnt make it so
I have all the games I know how it works and you can't low jab special throw in sf4 but you can in alpha 3 and earlier. If you have a PS3 you can get owned in sf4 after I get my system back from repairs...
Yeah and nothing you say matters. I know what I heard in the podcast. I play the games myself so I know whats different. Cheap will always be cheap and that's why things get patched. You revive 8 month old comments out of sheer boredom to build your own self confidence but is afraid to challenge me in the game to prove who's the noob. At the end of the day you proved nothing and all you did was disagree with me and result to name calling you fail.
two light punches then a special throw isn't a combo? sf4 wasn't patched it was drastically changed to begin with and ssf4 will have even more balancing changes. Instead of dismissing everything I said about these games why not go to gamespot and watch some of the developer interviews. I've clearly issued a challenge to you but since you've ignored it I'm guessing you're the one who hasn't played the game. I never said people should play different I said I think its cheap.
Why do you think so many games get patched now? Back then once games was shipped they were unfixable now a days every games gets patched at least 3-4 times because flaws like these are impossible to find until you have thousands of people play the game differently. As a matter of fact the balancing guy(don't know proper job title) Stated on the gamespot podcast that when designing SF4 they took note of the previous "flaws" when balancing SF4 SSF4 will have more balance issues fixed.
Now, if that's how you like to play then that's OK for you. But most players prefer to play the actual game the way it was designed, with all in-game moves allowable.
The fun is in the competition and seeing who can outplay the opponent. You have decided for yourself that it's "not fun" if certain moves get used. But it IS fun for all of the rest of us.
You have no place to criticize the vast majority of players for not following your personal made-up rules of what shouldn't be allowed.
Most players don't exploit the flaws in the game. Like rage quits before they were patched you could just quit any match you were losing and avoid the loss. In Online shooter games if I use a controller with turbo I'd be unstoppable but its cheap and not fun so why would I? by your definition since I have the turbo controller not using it make me not fully enjoy the game? You speak as if these moves being shown in these videos were designed purpopsly they weren't thats why 4 doesn't have them
@jbriggs06 Bravo, sir. You get it. Thank you for your clearly stated argument, I couldn't have said it better myself. The dishonorable, egotistical fools that don't understand what you are talking about will be the ruin of us all, I'm afraid. Example? I'd bet anything that the monsters at Enron were tick-and-throw ST players in their youth.
@qloey Please explain how stealing resources, price-fixing, monopolistic business practices, and outright theft are comparable to doing your best in a video game (or any other harmless contest like a football game, or a 100 yard dash, or a spelling bee, etc.)
The people at Enron broke the law and harmed millions of others for personal gain. Good ST players play entirely within the rules, and cause no harm to anyone.
You randomly decided "___ is immoral" without any reasoning for it.
@bobdonda I am not making a one-to-one comparison between RL and games, and the fact that you suggest I am, weakens your position. These are _patterns_ of _thought_ that players possess that I am describing. Your willingness to retreat behind the pathetic "but it's only a game!" defense shows how weak your argument really is. If players like you were _really_ "doing their best" they would concentrate on the game itself and not exploits in the code. You are a script kiddie, nothing more.
@qloey Yes, you are making a one-to-one comparison between RL and games. That's the entire issue here. You have been saying that if someone will do anything to win within the rules of a game, then they will do anything to win (including breaking rules and harming other people) in all aspects of their real life.
"it's only a game!" is not a defense, it's a fact.
tick-throwing, etc. is not "exploits in the code"... it IS the game itself. you randomly decided to call some in-game tactics unfair.
@bobdonda You worship at the altar of David Sirlin a bit too much. Have you ever heard the expression, "It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game"? That saying is a far bit older than Street Fighter, and it has served humanity well all its time. People like you, who think like you do, who confuse victory for success, will be the ruination of the entire planet. Go work for the CIA or some other monstrous organization, thay need sociopaths like you.
@qloey You're assigning morality to in-game strategies, where there is none. There is nothing evil about tick-throwing in ST, or using any other effective tactics that you happened to assign to your list of "unfair moves".
"it's how you play the game"... that means you play hard within the contest... and you are polite and moral outside of it.
BTW way to take the moral high ground while throwing out personal insults the entire time. Typical holier-than-thou BS.
@bobdonda I find it amusing that you could have pressed "post" with the tremendous error of stating that "It's how you play the game" equals "it's how you play _outside of_ the game". So now "the game" equals "outside of the game"? Yet you would still refuse to acknowledge that these habits of mind can spill out into RL? Hypocrisy.
@strikerk Fuck a stupid ass trophy and the reputation you can get with that attitude. Will still stick with my "code" and spine. People who win at all costs are FUCKIN PATHETIC. Plus if they NEED to use all that, then they are not the best in the first place.
@AmanOU2be Yeah, sure~ lol... you're probably used to losing a lot. It's okay dude, whatever it is that makes you feel better about being bad at the game.
@strikerk Right back at you, cupcake. If you need to use extra advantages to win, seems like YOU are the one who needs the ego boost. I won trophies in KI1-2 locally and they don't mean shit. I am never going to be the best of the best anyway with a full time job.
@AmanOU2be Congratulations dude~ never said you had to be the best, you just have a loser's mentality. Street Fighter is a game where someone is going to lose, and the one who wins is the one who plays the game. The entire game. The only referee was Capcom, and they are the ones who gave you options you don't even exist~ because while you're playing your code, everyone else is playing THE GAME. The fact you don't understand that means everyone you play, is wasting their time. You never started.
Unless it is clearly an unintended gamebreaking programming glitch, any strategy is legit because that's what competitive games are all about: timely execution of the best possible strategy. Also, cross-ups are in many other fighters and definitely not a flaw in the programming, just a good application of game mechanics.
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I swear street fighter is the only fighting game that encourages extremely cheap play me always being the honorable player has never been good at it but I'll take you apart in soul calibur or taken.
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Yea but cheap is cheap. Everyone is always high and mighty when discussing the matter. However when they actually play an extremely cheap person they cry and moan about it. I personally don't play to be cheap. Like I said Street Fighter encourages the cheapness. No other fighting game does that.
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Well as far as SF4 goes not much seeing as the game is still new, so the bugs haven't been found yet. But, in these videos: Cross ups.. Clearly a flaw in the programing. The E. Honda low jab ocho throw over and over. cheap. The Ryu hadouken sweep that's cheap. In the video he says his self "don't worry about being cheap". Its never fun to play cheap fighters. Unless winning is all you play for, and what fun is that? Like I said if your a tournament player OK, but why be cheap in friendly fights?
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Whatever, I'm just "old fashion" because I still believe in playing fair. If that makes me a scrub then so be it, but I bet I'd take Sirlin apart in Soul Calibur.
"Nobody gives a shit about that game" lol news flash nobody gives a shit about you or what you think. "Ask any real, proven fighting pro" I reject your opinion unless you can prove that you're a champion. "Sirlin could destroy you in a short period of time, as would any super turbo player." The same goes to you. It really doesn't matter if he could beat me or not. I bet unlike you I'd have a blast just playing the game. Besides chess is the only REAL man's game an I'd destroy him in that.
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I hope you are joking.
I played this game for years and that was my biggest mistake, there is no mind game involved at gealty gear, just stupid easy pressing over and over again until you get the 50% combo. wow, amazing. i was surprised how it's easy to win at this game when you practiced all the setups to pull off combos.
No, I wasn't joking, and I wish you were even though I can tell you aren't.
Though combos help, they do not decide a match - and SF2 makes a point of that with its lack of freeform gameplay consisting almost entirely of zoning and pokes. GG is far more execution heavy, and that goes beyond combos.
It would seem to me that you are a scrub at GG who's actually pretty terrible at the game.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Nope, all youtube jerks commenting sh!t like "GG is hardcore" are meaningless to me, i cant' argue with someone who think that GG is a complex game, sorry. You must sux at fighting games to say that.
You are just another newbie who thinks flashy games are cooler and FRC/80% HP combos are very hardcore stuff.
Now get lost and go practice instant air-dash kid xD
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
You should've stopped at "i cant' argue"; you make baseless inferences about why I tout GG as more complex when I already said it goes beyond combos, then you infer because of my opinion about GG, that I must suck at fighting games et al.
I'll let you think what you want, there's obviously this thing you lack called reason.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
ok! we both know pretty much everything about GG.
GG is Bad, period. <---- My opinion
GG is the most hardcore game <-- yours
I tried briefly to explain why i think it's not worth to play game on my 1st post.
You said nothing but GG is complex and stuff, and i agree! but hell! it wasn't FOR ME and any experienced play will master the game (some characters) very quickly.
Thus newbies like you can always talk about how harcore GG is, but remember, hardcore game isn't necessarily a good game.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
My argument from the very beginning was not critiquing game quality versus game difficulty, which you wanted to say belonged to SF2. I've played SF2 and all its iterations, among many other fighting games since they came out; I know what I'm talking about.
also even if you put it on the easiest settings the cpu will still rape you silly left right & centre so I play SSF2 on my megadrive or ds turbo rival at on there it give you a fair chance.
I've got SSF2T on my anniversay collection, & I have a very had time pulling off the dragon punch motion with ryu/ken/akuma/feilong/cammy&sagat. all the other street fighters i can pull it off no probs but on da collection it rarely lets me do it for sum odd reason & instead it does a fireball wiv ken & ryu for e.g.
Here's the deal with it. Each frame of every move has been tested. There is a glitch or two, but Chun Li's head stomp is not one of them. If you notice, that move, which uses medium kick, does absolutly minimal damage, so you can literally head stomp me for all 99 seconds, and most characters will still have health! It was put into the game to give her special qualities as a poker, because zangief can OWN her all day if she couldn't, if she does it all day, your still completly safe from death.
People tham complain about cheapness are the ones that will most receive cheap tricks because that will enrage them.
TetsuyaBrazil 2 weeks ago
I don't get why people are talking about cheapness. He isn't taking advantage of glitches or infinite combos.
BrawlYoshi 1 month ago in playlist More videos from strider2k2
o_O and I thought I playe games to the point of having no life :) guess not
riotofdablood 1 month ago
Superb tutorial
alundrasrt 3 months ago
It's annoying how he doesn't know how to pronounce Ryu correctly.
hitmonlee 7 months ago
People complain about cheapness because they can't accept that it's their own damn fault they lost.
If I lose, I won't complain about how unfair my opponent is, I'd complain about how stupid I was and try to learn from that.
MasterKurow 7 months ago 8
@MasterKurow Sometimes it's hard to fight the urge, though...
HinataChan30 6 months ago
I never get tired of Street Fighter. Never have, never will.
Corey897 7 months ago
Great vid, very interesting. Would love to see some up to date ones for ssf4.
Stampistuta 8 months ago 2
this made me miss arcades, my first arcade memory was watching sf be played (im 20 now) and the crowds it brought. i dont even think theres an arcade in my city anymore, mabey just a pladium.
spicmanz 10 months ago
Bobdonda, if your still here wtf is wrong with you.
You trolled these comments for like half a year.
Syntheticfish 1 year ago
NICE!!
ArturikGDL 1 year ago
Hey how did Sirlin show what he was doing? Are those his actual inputs or did he just video edit images to make it look as if those were his inputs?
RyanJRA64Abella 1 year ago
"Negative Edge" I have heard of before, but the "Piano Method" is new to me.
Still, a good view!
VideoQuestEx 1 year ago
6:16 ow
FuccThatShitNigga 1 year ago
the other guy should just drop his controller and pick up a gun and shoot you
and if your relatives complain about this, they are scrubs
Bananadine 1 year ago 6
@Bananadine I never can understand why some people are unable to see the difference between "do all you can to win, WITHIN THE RULES OF THE GAME" and "do anything and everything to win, without limitations".
No one calls a halfback pass unfair in football, no one says bluffing in poker is cheating, no one says stealing bases is actually theft. Only in video games do people create their own rules of what shouldn't be allowed --within the game--.
bobdonda 1 year ago
@bobdonda aw come on it's not so special for people to frown on a technically legal move because it's dishonorable or something--I just read about that happening after a World Cup match
scrubs are often complainers
and if you think there aren't scrubs in poker... well then where do the pros get all their money?????
Bananadine 1 year ago
@Bananadine well you are right, I guess it's not ONLY fighting games where it happens... people do complain about diving in soccer, and about too-violent play (which doesn't always get caught).
honestly it's a part of the game and you can't blame the players for using it. it's slightly different though, since over 90% of fans agree there need to be harsher penalties because it's getting too common. it's not like in SF where there's a tiny group of people making up their own list of "cheap"
bobdonda 1 year ago
@Bananadine and btw I never said there are no scrubs in poker (there are lots of them). but in poker the scrubs don't say "checkraising is cheap, it's a low down dirty trick and you're a scumbag who only cares about winning, I hope you never have a family because you have no morals in life"
bobdonda 1 year ago
@bobdonda anyhow, these super-super-serious arguments about how one should play a game are as far outside the rules as the complaints of scrubs are
the rules don't say, "complainers are disqualified"
they don't say, "to win you must start caustic arguments in our defense"
they don't say, "any person who makes a satirical crack about trying so hard to win that you murder somebody goes in the penalty box"
if the rules are paramount, then why fight outside them so much
it's a bit silly
Bananadine 1 year ago
@bobdonda Only in video games are the participants a series of binary digits that can be manipulated as such, unlike human beings, who must obey the laws of physics and rationality. Comparing human beings with binary code - look at the pot calling the ketle black, Mr. Enron!
qloey 1 year ago
@qloey I have no idea what this is supposed to be saying. Comparing humans to binary code? What? Where did this come from?
bobdonda 1 year ago
@bobdonda
Their is also a small minority of players that want to change the mechanics of the game as well because they feel the game is "unbalanced," "unfair," or "doesn't make any sense." One of the more absurd things I heard was to make all attacks hit on the very first frame it is activated because it doesn't make any sense for someone to "safe jump" or be unable to jab out of a throw. Point is, not everyone is going to understand why things happen in a game, no matter how much you explain.
sakura4994 1 year ago
@sakura4994 your right unsuspecting things happen most of the time with no explanation
boogynights 1 year ago
@boogynights
what? how was i saying that unsuspecting things happen without explanation? i was saying that some people don't understand why things happen no matter how you explain it to them.
sakura4994 1 year ago
@sakura4994 Block stun is always going to be annoying because casual players will never understand why their character won't stop blocking after they stop holding block. I find it really annoying as well as I believe that unless I used a move that had recovery (understandable) blocking should not have to worry about recovering since you already successfully blocked (which should be rewarded with an immediate chance to respond). I also prefer games that let you cancel into other moves a lot more.
catzblu999 1 year ago
That's really stupid.
ultracombo2 1 year ago
thanks a bunch Mr. Sirlin!
AspiePilo82 1 year ago
durr im david sirling i know how to make a game ken isn't overpowered in hd remix at all
spitfiremanlizerd 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is definitly the best tutorial for SF2 ever devised,
If I was making a tutorial, it would be just like this
this is exactly what id recomend,
the piano inputs are what the noobs should really be trying to learn
segano1 1 year ago
Comment removed
segano1 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
bobdonda - shut up, no person or job gives a fuck about your SF knowledge. I hate stubborn know-it-all types.
jbriggs - cheap shit exists in 99% of fighting games. There are two types of high levels, people who play to win but doesn't feel content with doing "cheap" shit to get a win and people who treat every match as if the cure for cancer is on the line.
I won't say I hate the players but getting thrown for an entire match is gay when nothing worthwhile is on the line
tokyobassist 1 year ago
@tokyobassist
You're just whining because you're a scrub and can't defend against tick throws.
ephekt420 1 year ago
Instead of bitching and crying about things being unfair because so-and-so cheated, try to counter them and perhaps give them a taste of their own medicine. You know, actually compete a little bit?
Andins 2 years ago 2
I'm not bitching and crying at all he brought up an 8 month old argument. I know how to play the game and I can stop this stuff that's why I can attest to it not being fun because I experienced it
jbriggs06 2 years ago
no offense briggs but i have to side with bob on this one. you do whatever it takes to win, regardless of what some may consider cheap or cheating. that is the reason fighting games exist, and that, literally, is the reason they are fun. guarantee you the guy who masters all of these "flaws" as you have dubbed them, is going to have a hell of a lot of "fun" owning people who refuse to utilize all of the tools at their disposal, much like yourself.
Andins 2 years ago 2
@Andins Fuck that shit. I have a spine. I do not need to stroke my ego by winning by whatever it takes. That is what fuckin pussies do. Actually skirts would be a more fitting word. That sort of activity also makes you a sadist. So you have mental issues. Well done.
AmanOU2be 10 months ago
@AmanOU2be You are the definition of a scrub. "I try to win, but only a little bit."
If you were on a track team in high school, for the 100 yard dash did you run sort of fast but not TOO fast because it might not give the other runners a chance?
If you were on the football team did you plan to score some points but not too many? Did you use good plays, but not your most effective plays because it might be hard for the other team to stop them?
Of course not. In competition, you try to win.
bobdonda 5 months ago
@bobdonda You are still having problems discerning skill from unfair balancing/advantages. Ridiculous windows of opportunity are at hand too. If your track star only had 1/60th of a second to overtake his rival or lose the heat/race and he lost, I find it hard to believe all would be hunky dory.
AmanOU2be 5 months ago
@AmanOU2be Well, that's the nature of the game. The game allows people to use tactics that are difficult to counter. It's fine to not like that kind of game... but play a different game, instead of complaining at someone who is doing nothing more than using a good strategy.
bobdonda 5 months ago
@bobdonda Thats the issue. You have this wrong idea of good strategy. Even in war there are rules. If breaking those to win a war is "good stratregy" to you then I think I will never get through to you. Its not even the game. Its the players. I do not do whatever it takes to win and do not like playing those people. I never know how far they will go either.
AmanOU2be 5 months ago
@AmanOU2be I completely agree with everything you just said to me. But some people seem to not understand that the things being complained about are within the rules of the game.
tick-throws = within the rules of the game. it's part of the game itself and nothing is wrong with using it
fireball traps = within the rules of the game
hitting opponent's controller = NOT within the rules, should never be allowed, it's wrong to ever do this.
punching opponent in the face = NOT within the rules
bobdonda 5 months ago
@bobdonda But other items are within the "whatever it takes to win" category. I am glad you would not do those. But we disagree about what is fine in the game. There is stuff that is in the gmae but has not been fixed or Backbone feels it is fine. All that means is that BACKBONE thinks it is fine. This is why o.Sagat and Gouki get banned. THEY ARE NOT FINE. Now the stuff you list up there is liked by far too many people to get taken out. But then again look at SF4 AE.
AmanOU2be 5 months ago
@AmanOU2be Things are either in the game or they aren't. That is how you know what's fine to use. If it's in the game you can use it.
With any rule, there are rare exceptions. Akuma is banned in ST, game-freezing glitches are banned in other games. When the entire community agrees that something is completely gamebreaking, it is ok to ban it from competition. (This has never included fireball traps or throws or O.Sagat.)
BTW I don't know what Backbone is, but it isn't relevant.
bobdonda 5 months ago
@bobdonda Just because something is not accepted by all/many, does not mean it is not an exception. Its like a theory that has not been proven into a law. The theory may be 100% correct. O. Sagat (iirc) was banned in some tournies.
Backbone is who was in charge of HDR.
AmanOU2be 5 months ago
@AmanOU2be Until the community-wide rules are changed, it is OK to use whatever is allowed. This is just how things work.
People deciding for themselves what is allowed and isn't allowed, that is not how things work. You can't decide that stabbing people in the face is allowed. You can't decide that blocking shots in basketball isn't allowed.
You follow the rules of the game/sport/legal system, and you don't get to complain about other people ("no fair blocking my shot!")
bobdonda 5 months ago
@AmanOU2be But what you can't do is ban things from just your own games, based on only your own opinions, and expect other people to follow those rules. There would be millions of insane versions of SF and you'd never know what your opponent's personal rules are. It would be fucking retarded.
You can't decide on what is fine using personal opinion. That's why the rules are decided by the game itself. That's why all sports, all games, and all legal systems work this way.
bobdonda 5 months ago
@bobdonda Well then they need to be more active in policing the game. More nerfs and more buffs.
Plus you cannot compare this to much of real life because real life does not always work in the confines of game code. I CAN bring a gun to a knife fight. Chun CANNOT start throwing air fireballs.
I do not expect people to follow MY rules. But I would prefer that the "win at all costs' shit stops. I know neither will happen.
AmanOU2be 5 months ago
@AmanOU2be Some people would prefer a more active "policing" of the game, but that's irrelevant. If you choose to play a game or sport, you are choosing to compete under the existing rules. If you don't like that, then don't play.
A "gun to a knife fight" analogy doesn't work, because that entire situation exists outside of any rules.
"Win at all costs(as long as you don't break rules)" is the nature of competition itself. If you don't get this, you don't understand what competition is about.
bobdonda 5 months ago
setting marker for fei fans 3:30
vib5252 2 years ago
Nerfing is not really a good word.
Hell, you can now combo a blocked dive into a super and he gets his crazy O. Hawk roundhouse. Nerfed, not really.
shindean 2 years ago
David Sirloin lolololol.
ShinOnigashima 2 years ago 11
Does this shit still hold true in HD Remix?!
AllanDrPizza 2 years ago
PayPal!!!
AllanCaesarIII 2 years ago
most of it but not all
AvionSS 2 years ago
It does, I do it all the time. Especially bisons jumping strong kicks. But the piano inputs, is really hard on HD remix, it isn't as easy. But everything else is true. I don't know about T.Hawk and Zangief since I use shoto chars, charge and chars that have no projectile attacks, (Ken, Bison, Cammy)
XxGonixXFAN 2 years ago
i've never had a problem doing the piano in HD, I mean I use a basic ps3 controller so I adapt with only two buttons instead of three. But other than that, I see no problems.
shindean 2 years ago
it holds true in SF4 still too.
Owner46 2 years ago 2
Not really.
evilaj2010 2 years ago
i think its an awesome game, but that last part is very true. specially in street fighter 4...gah.
RageAgainstTheDiet 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
SF is such a stupid game..its just like gambling..sometimes the dumbest players get rewarded
Moonblood00 2 years ago
example?
LiveLoveGiveGrow 2 years ago
With that well-grounded logic, how could anyone argue?
Fucking troll.
katsuranomaly 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Meh...i'll just stick to Guilty Gear.
glitch509 2 years ago
I agree the only hard we got is back dash canceling
soulreaperkyo 2 years ago
Actually Cammy (In HD Remix), Fierce Cannon Spike = Little distance if blocked, small cannon spike = large distance if blocked. That's why I love Ken, his multiple hit grabs = quite a piss off.
XxGonixXFAN 2 years ago
Damn this some nice stuff sirlin. imma go test it out.
kaizerher 2 years ago
what is the difference between somebody that plays for fun and somebody that plays to win?
people that play for fun moan about cheapness where as people that play to win accept that its part of the game and learn to deal with it.
in the long run, people that play to win get more out of the game than somebody playing for fun will ever get.
i would go as far to say that people playing to win have more fun playing this game than anybody playing for fun. ironic isnt it?
xGrimlock420x 2 years ago
I hate it when people whine about cheap hits, I find it fun in trying to beat such cheap tactics. I guess it's about using common sense and only a mindless button basher would complain about button bashing.
JBalmoreS 2 years ago 2
It's funny how you all assume that I don't know how to play just because I say its cheap. I know how to do MOST not all but most of this stuff. when I win a fight because of it its just not fun. Like I said in FRIENDLY matches. Just beating everyone over and over using this cheap stuff isn't fun and that my opinion.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
Yes but playing an opponent that knows how to counter it, is fun and as much fun as the game allows. You have to be good at it to play that game of strategy and mind games.
DonJuanDeMarco2 2 years ago
"You have to be good at it to play that game of strategy and mind games." Once again I know how to do most of these strategies. I've used them myself which is how I came to the conclusion that it wasn't fun.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
Yea i apologise, its just not to your taste.
It is a competition level of play, where winning is the goal, so it fails at being a laid back fun type of game. Alot of people do enjoy the challenge though.
Actually when i first got HDR, it was my first time playing since the arcade days and i found it exactly how you did, but then i saw the depth these guys had taken it to and enjoyed getting my teeth into it. Im amazed how much i've developed.
DonJuanDeMarco2 2 years ago
Yea I stated in a few post back that if you're going to do the competition or tournament thing then that's fine but why use this stuff in friendly matches. That was my point, that this video was showing people how to be cheap now when ever I want a friendly match its just comes down to who's the cheapest.. Doing the same move over and over the whole match... that sucks and isn't fun in my opinion.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
Some people think having fun is better than just winning.
Some people think winning is better than just having fun.
Some people think losing, as long as they maintaned their code of honor is more fun, than winning without.
In the end, only one person gets to go home with the trophy. Only one person's name gets recorded amongst the best of the best. The others go home with their code.
strikerk 2 years ago 2
Yea but your talking about competition, i think this guy below is talking about playing the game in casuals.
At the end of the day, everything (almost) can be countered, so if you can do it, you'd be a fool not to.
DonJuanDeMarco2 2 years ago
Is it so wrong for me to not see the fun in taking down opponent's doing the same thing over and over? Like I've said for the millionth time I'm speaking of friendly matches not tournaments. I understand that in tournaments as long as you follow the rules its fair game but is it really necessary to use these cheap strategies in a match that wont matter at the end of the day? Just like in chess I wont use the Scholar's mate in a friendly match. It would beat 75% of non competitive chess players.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
This is a response to me ? I've already explained previously that i understand where you are coming from.
Its not for you. Its not fun for you.
"use these cheap strategies"
There really is no such thing at competition level.
"in a match that wont matter at the end of the day?"
If its not worth anything, then you shouldn't be doing it.
"It would beat 75% of non competitive chess players."
You've just said everything that needs saying right there.
DonJuanDeMarco2 2 years ago
I'm sorry but you have no concept of what a competitive game is for. The fun and excitement of the game is when both of you go all out when trying to win, and seeing who can out-think and out-maneuver the opponent.
What fun is it to play chess and just goof around and do random moves? If you lose you think "I could have won if I wanted to". Pointless.
Instead, use Scholar's mate... they will soon learn to avoid it and counter it. Soon you'll have an opponent who can provide a real challenge.
bobdonda 2 years ago
Who said anything about doing random stuff? There is a difference between doing a dragon punch if you opponent keeps jumping and walking into the match knowing if I do combo x over and over then I'll win every time. I play chess and I've never once used the scholar's mate on some poor noob just because I know how. As I've stated many many times I'm speaking of friendly play not tournament competitions.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
What is there to enjoy about friendly play, if neither player is actually trying to win the game? You're just moving pieces around, there's no strategy, no one is trying to win and no one learns anything.
If you used scholar's mate on a new player, I think he would be impressed by that trick. He would want to learn how to use it, and learn how to counter it, and it would increase his interest in chess.
Then after he learns how to stop your easy wins, you have a challenging opponent to play.
bobdonda 2 years ago
Just because ts friendly play doesn't mean we aren't trying to win. I play chess with noobs all the time and the fact that the matches last longer than 3 moves is the reason why they keep coming back. I discovered the scholar's mate from watching other people. They all quit and stopped playing with the guy who kept using it to win because t wasn't fun anymore. Not everyone who play competitive games get better and improve their skills because that type of dedication isn't always fun for people
jbriggs06 2 years ago
But you aren't trying to win. You choose not to use effective strategies that lead to you winning the game. That means that your goal is something other than winning.
Your goal seems to be some vague definition of "fun", which is apparently achieved when neither playing is trying very hard and you're just moving stuff around. Eventually one of you will win, but not because you were trying hard to make that happen.
This seems completely pointless and I cannot see what fun there is in it.
bobdonda 2 years ago
Choosing not to cheat is not cheap. What about anybody that didn't use the falcons in madden 04? Vick was so fast that the entire balance was unfair. Yet everyone who played didn't instantly pick the falcons and run with Vick every play. Does that mean they weren't really trying to win? Of course not. Instead of trying to psychoanalyze me why not really read what I'm typing? If I pick player x and spam punch I could win every time. Does that mean not spamming punch means I don't want to win? no.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
"Choosing not to cheat is not cheap." I don't know what this sentence is supposed to mean. And who said anything about cheating?
If you find some unbeatable punch-spamming strategy and choose not to use it... then that is correct, you are not playing to win.
You are intentionally choosing to use a weaker strategy and increasing your odds of losing the match. This is the opposite of playing to win.
bobdonda 2 years ago
@bobdonda God, what a terrifying view of the world you have. Winnig is everything, and anything that is not winning is undesireable. What a horrible parent, teacher, or leader of any kind you would make. Process, content, you do not fathom them. I pity you, I truly pity you and your small, horrible existence, like an animal.
qloey 1 year ago
@qloey God, what a horrible strawman argument you have. Making shit up and pretending your opponent believes in it is everything, and responding to what was actually said is undesireable.
What a horrible critical thinker you would make. Logic, reasoning, you do not fathom them. I pity you, I truly pity you and your laughable excuses such as "I'm morally superior" for your inability to win at video games.
bobdonda 1 year ago
@bobdonda Also, your excessive use of terms such as "moral" and "holy" speaks, I think, to your own internal dilemma on those issues. That you are even able to defend indefensible techniques, speaks volumes about you. There are even rules of war, you know? Like not attacking civilian populations. These get compromised all the time, but your logic would have it that they are to be encouraged actively, because they advance the purpose of winning. "You won the war, but lost the peace."
qloey 1 year ago
@qloey My own internal dilemma? On what? Defending indefensible techniques... like what? Rules of war? What in the blue hell are you even talking about? I can't understand what point you are trying to make.
Here's my point - you seem unable to draw the line between the real life harming of other human beings, and playing to win in a harmless video game contest.
You fail to understand that a person can compete hard in games, but in real life not be a "destroy everyone else to get ahead" person
bobdonda 1 year ago
And some people have no interest in having their names carved in time as long as fun was key in their ventures.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
Where do you find this "fun" in just screwing around and doing random moves because you feel like it?
Suppose you were watching the Super Bowl, and both teams constantly were trying trick plays and risky moves. Lots of fumbles and INTs, and no serious competition. Would that be nearly as fun to watch as a real competition?
The true enjoyment of fighting games comes from two players attempting to out-do each other and seeing who can outsmart the other one this time.
bobdonda 2 years ago
Firstly even if I was talking about "just screwing around and doing random moves because you feel like it"(I wasn't) fun is subjective so your thoughts don't trump mine. Secondly " watching the Super Bowl" is in no way a comparison to playing a random match of SF with a friend for fun. Lastly the true enjoyment of fighting games is defined by the person who's playing less than 1% of the people who buy SF will have ever compete professionally and they still find true enjoyment.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
Like I said, you have no concept of the fun of competition.
You are not playing to win... so that means your goal is something other than emptying your opponent's lifebar. You are setting your own goals, such as trying to land fancy combos, or who knows what else.
If you are not playing with the goal of winning, I call that "screwing around and doing random moves". You inexplicably find this to be enjoyable.
And that's fine... but don't criticize others who want to play the actual game.
bobdonda 2 years ago
and like I said there is a difference between between tournament play and friendly play. You can have a friendly series of matches like first to 10 and I'd try to win but using cheap exploits isn't fun. If its a tournament then you do what you must and winning is fun. There is a distenct difference in tryng to win and winning at all cost. Most people who just want a good time but would like to win also would stop playing wth me if I used the same cheap moves over and over to win all the time.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
Who determines what a "cheap exploit" is? The definition of cheap exists only in your own mind. What if someone else says all fireballs are cheap, but you don't think so? Is there an official list of "cheap moves" somewhere?
You dislike these moves because they are very effective at achieving the goal of winning the game. Why?
Why are some moves "cheap" and others aren't? Why is a fireball (a useful, effective move) not cheap, while throw ticks aren't?
The answer- you just make it all up.
bobdonda 2 years ago
Those cheap moves are flaws in the games design that's why they are cheap. In this sf game you can pick e honda and if you face a bison you'll be unstoppable as the ocho throw can't be stopped by him if you get bison in the corner. That's cheap. Its the same in playing sf4 if I pick akuma and lag my connection on purpose then jump fire ball the entire match its unstoppable. The game wasn't designed to play that way and that's why its cheap.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
Who are you to decide what the game designers intended?
Why do DPs not hit on the first four frames? There must be a reason... I think they were intended to work exactly the way they do, including allowing safe option select jumpins.
If Bison has an ugly situation vs Honda in the corner... maybe Bison needs to not get knocked down in the corner.
If you think intentionally causing lag is the same thing as using in-game moves that the designers included on purpose... you're just hopeless.
bobdonda 2 years ago
The game designers already stated that most of these things were not intentional That's why in the newer games they were taken out. If you watch the interviews or listen to the podcast the designers are on they tell you most of these flaws wasn't discovered until years after the game was created that's why if SF4 and other newer games they were taken out because they are glitches. Lke the madden example I gave you or the glitch on gears of war 2 or COD:MW
jbriggs06 2 years ago
Option selects are in SF4.
Negative edge moves (doing a special move motion and then releasing the button) are in SF4.
Jump + instant attack in order to get an overhead, is in SF4.
Piano method is in SF4.
Other than safe 360 throws (they have whiff animation now), EVERYTHING IN THIS VIDEO IS IN SF4 AND EVERY OTHER SF EVER MADE.
You know jack shit about SF, but you feel the need to come on here and talk about how flawed it is and criticize people who play the game to win.
bobdonda 2 years ago
sigh and had you read the whole 8 month argument you would know I wasn't referring to this video. I Was referring to the others
jbriggs06 2 years ago
you said 1 day ago (not 8 months ago):
"The game designers already stated that most of these things were not intentional That's why in the newer games they were taken out."
What is "I was referring to the others" supposed to mean?
bobdonda 2 years ago
This video is a 3 part series
jbriggs06 2 years ago
and? what specifically are the "most of these things" that you think were not intentional gameplay design, and were later removed from the series?
I'll just save some time and stop trying to drag an explanation out of you... you were just making stuff up in an attempt to show that the designers agreed with you, so you must be right.
it didn't work, because you don't know anything about SF. gg
bobdonda 2 years ago
I already told you the e honda ocho throw the vega claw drop the cross ups the ryu fire balls they were unstoppable if used correctly and over and over. Thats not true with SF4 or any of the alpha games. Watch the intermediate video.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
So you're telling me that Ryu's fireballs were unstoppable (wrong), Honda's ochio was unstoppable (wrong), and Vega's claw dive was unstoppable (wrong).
And you're telling me that Ryu's fireballs, Honda's ochio, and Vega's claw dive were removed from future SF games (wrong).
christ. morons these days
bobdonda 2 years ago
you obviously are the moron... the focus lets you negate the fire balls so spamming them no longer wins the match. The ochio throw (and all throws) can't be comboed in sf4 so the light punch ochio throw is no longer an easy win. vegas claw dived was weakened so it no longer takes such a huge amount of life. Those moves may not have been unstoppable but they were very unfair which is why they were toned down
jbriggs06 2 years ago
1) spamming fireballs never guaranteed a win.
2) the ochio could never be comboed, and never meant an easy win.
3) Vega's wall dive never dealt a a huge amount of damage, and it's as strong as ever in SF4.
you're pretty much flat out wrong with everything you say, you just keep making up new stuff in some kind of hope to prove that you weren't wrong, but it never works because you know nothing about SF.
lolol @ you thinking throws could be comboed.
bobdonda 2 years ago
Ask any vega player they'll tell you how much his attacks were lowered. I've witnessed with my own eyes hundreds of wins from spamming fireballs. What exactly do you call the light punch into ochio throw? With zangief you could light punch light kick throw I've done it many times if you try that in sf 4 the throw will miss
jbriggs06 2 years ago
I don't need to "ask any Vega player", I'll just use facts. In ST, the wall dive does close to the same amount of damage as a fierce punch. In SF4, the wall dive does... close to the same damage as a fierce punch.
Nothing has changed about it. BTW you're the only person I've ever heard of who has called Vega's wall dive "cheap".
I call jab into ochio "jab into ochio". It sure as hell isn't a combo.
If you do it in SF4 the throw will not miss. Nothing was changed. You're 100% wrong AGAIN.
bobdonda 2 years ago
vegas attacks are weaker than they used to be I know that for a fact and jab into ochio throw was a combo because after the jab your couldnt stop the throw thats the definition of a combo in gaming Using the vega wall dive is not cheap in its self but you could do it over and over and then it becomes cheap. When was the last time you played sf4? You cant hit anyone right before a special throw like spinning piledriver or ochio throw it will miss just because you say im wrong doesnt make it so
jbriggs06 2 years ago
THROWS CAN'T BE COMBOED.
No wonder you're watching ST tutorial videos, you've never played it before and have no idea how it works. You don't even know what a combo is.
Go and play the game right now. Do low jab into a special throw and tell me if it says "2 hit combo" on the screen.
How about you actually play the game and find out what works and what doesn't, instead of MAKING SHIT UP all of the time.
You don't even know what a goddamn combo is, how are you gonna argue with people lol.
bobdonda 2 years ago
I have all the games I know how it works and you can't low jab special throw in sf4 but you can in alpha 3 and earlier. If you have a PS3 you can get owned in sf4 after I get my system back from repairs...
jbriggs06 2 years ago
I'm not going to argue facts with you.
Low jab into throw is never a combo.
None of the stuff you mentioned is "cheap" or gamebreaking.
None of that stuff was ever removed by the game developers, nor did they ever say it was in the game unintentionally.
Nothing in a video game is "dishonorable" or unfair to use in competition.
You stole fizzy lifting drinks... You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!
bobdonda 2 years ago
Yeah and nothing you say matters. I know what I heard in the podcast. I play the games myself so I know whats different. Cheap will always be cheap and that's why things get patched. You revive 8 month old comments out of sheer boredom to build your own self confidence but is afraid to challenge me in the game to prove who's the noob. At the end of the day you proved nothing and all you did was disagree with me and result to name calling you fail.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
ST never had its gameplay changed by a patch. SF4 never had its gameplay changed by a patch. Wrong AGAIN.
How about instead of just making shit up, why don't you ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME and find out what the facts are before you start randomly guessing.
I mean... you thought THROWS COULD BE COMBOED. hahaha even an 8 year old playing for the first time could figure that one out buddy.
how are you THAT clueless about the game and still think you can tell other people how they should play... lol
bobdonda 2 years ago
two light punches then a special throw isn't a combo? sf4 wasn't patched it was drastically changed to begin with and ssf4 will have even more balancing changes. Instead of dismissing everything I said about these games why not go to gamespot and watch some of the developer interviews. I've clearly issued a challenge to you but since you've ignored it I'm guessing you're the one who hasn't played the game. I never said people should play different I said I think its cheap.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"two light punches then a special throw isn't a combo?"
THAT'S RIGHT.
"I never said people should play different I said I think its cheap. "
I never insulted your appearance, I just said your face resembles a fossilized brontosaurus anus.
bobdonda 2 years ago 2
Also you brought the argument to me as I've stated many times my comments were 8 MONTHS AGO!!
jbriggs06 2 years ago
Why do you think so many games get patched now? Back then once games was shipped they were unfixable now a days every games gets patched at least 3-4 times because flaws like these are impossible to find until you have thousands of people play the game differently. As a matter of fact the balancing guy(don't know proper job title) Stated on the gamespot podcast that when designing SF4 they took note of the previous "flaws" when balancing SF4 SSF4 will have more balance issues fixed.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
Now, if that's how you like to play then that's OK for you. But most players prefer to play the actual game the way it was designed, with all in-game moves allowable.
The fun is in the competition and seeing who can outplay the opponent. You have decided for yourself that it's "not fun" if certain moves get used. But it IS fun for all of the rest of us.
You have no place to criticize the vast majority of players for not following your personal made-up rules of what shouldn't be allowed.
bobdonda 2 years ago
Most players don't exploit the flaws in the game. Like rage quits before they were patched you could just quit any match you were losing and avoid the loss. In Online shooter games if I use a controller with turbo I'd be unstoppable but its cheap and not fun so why would I? by your definition since I have the turbo controller not using it make me not fully enjoy the game? You speak as if these moves being shown in these videos were designed purpopsly they weren't thats why 4 doesn't have them
jbriggs06 2 years ago
@jbriggs06 Bravo, sir. You get it. Thank you for your clearly stated argument, I couldn't have said it better myself. The dishonorable, egotistical fools that don't understand what you are talking about will be the ruin of us all, I'm afraid. Example? I'd bet anything that the monsters at Enron were tick-and-throw ST players in their youth.
qloey 1 year ago
@qloey Please explain how stealing resources, price-fixing, monopolistic business practices, and outright theft are comparable to doing your best in a video game (or any other harmless contest like a football game, or a 100 yard dash, or a spelling bee, etc.)
The people at Enron broke the law and harmed millions of others for personal gain. Good ST players play entirely within the rules, and cause no harm to anyone.
You randomly decided "___ is immoral" without any reasoning for it.
bobdonda 1 year ago
@bobdonda I am not making a one-to-one comparison between RL and games, and the fact that you suggest I am, weakens your position. These are _patterns_ of _thought_ that players possess that I am describing. Your willingness to retreat behind the pathetic "but it's only a game!" defense shows how weak your argument really is. If players like you were _really_ "doing their best" they would concentrate on the game itself and not exploits in the code. You are a script kiddie, nothing more.
qloey 1 year ago
@qloey Yes, you are making a one-to-one comparison between RL and games. That's the entire issue here. You have been saying that if someone will do anything to win within the rules of a game, then they will do anything to win (including breaking rules and harming other people) in all aspects of their real life.
"it's only a game!" is not a defense, it's a fact.
tick-throwing, etc. is not "exploits in the code"... it IS the game itself. you randomly decided to call some in-game tactics unfair.
bobdonda 1 year ago 2
@bobdonda You worship at the altar of David Sirlin a bit too much. Have you ever heard the expression, "It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game"? That saying is a far bit older than Street Fighter, and it has served humanity well all its time. People like you, who think like you do, who confuse victory for success, will be the ruination of the entire planet. Go work for the CIA or some other monstrous organization, thay need sociopaths like you.
qloey 1 year ago
@qloey You're assigning morality to in-game strategies, where there is none. There is nothing evil about tick-throwing in ST, or using any other effective tactics that you happened to assign to your list of "unfair moves".
"it's how you play the game"... that means you play hard within the contest... and you are polite and moral outside of it.
BTW way to take the moral high ground while throwing out personal insults the entire time. Typical holier-than-thou BS.
bobdonda 1 year ago
@bobdonda I find it amusing that you could have pressed "post" with the tremendous error of stating that "It's how you play the game" equals "it's how you play _outside of_ the game". So now "the game" equals "outside of the game"? Yet you would still refuse to acknowledge that these habits of mind can spill out into RL? Hypocrisy.
qloey 1 year ago
@strikerk Fuck a stupid ass trophy and the reputation you can get with that attitude. Will still stick with my "code" and spine. People who win at all costs are FUCKIN PATHETIC. Plus if they NEED to use all that, then they are not the best in the first place.
AmanOU2be 5 months ago
@AmanOU2be Yeah, sure~ lol... you're probably used to losing a lot. It's okay dude, whatever it is that makes you feel better about being bad at the game.
strikerk 5 months ago
@strikerk Right back at you, cupcake. If you need to use extra advantages to win, seems like YOU are the one who needs the ego boost. I won trophies in KI1-2 locally and they don't mean shit. I am never going to be the best of the best anyway with a full time job.
AmanOU2be 5 months ago
@AmanOU2be Congratulations dude~ never said you had to be the best, you just have a loser's mentality. Street Fighter is a game where someone is going to lose, and the one who wins is the one who plays the game. The entire game. The only referee was Capcom, and they are the ones who gave you options you don't even exist~ because while you're playing your code, everyone else is playing THE GAME. The fact you don't understand that means everyone you play, is wasting their time. You never started.
strikerk 5 months ago
stupid sirlin is stupid.(Dot)
YorkeKin 2 years ago
One says "cheap", another says "unwilling to adapt"
Y'know what happens to those unwilling to adapt? That's right, they die lol
aeriyu 2 years ago
Unless it is clearly an unintended gamebreaking programming glitch, any strategy is legit because that's what competitive games are all about: timely execution of the best possible strategy. Also, cross-ups are in many other fighters and definitely not a flaw in the programming, just a good application of game mechanics.
necpmf 2 years ago
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I swear street fighter is the only fighting game that encourages extremely cheap play me always being the honorable player has never been good at it but I'll take you apart in soul calibur or taken.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
It's 'Street Fighter' not 'Tournament Rules Fighter.' Anything goes, by design.
Energyone 2 years ago 9
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Yea but cheap is cheap. Everyone is always high and mighty when discussing the matter. However when they actually play an extremely cheap person they cry and moan about it. I personally don't play to be cheap. Like I said Street Fighter encourages the cheapness. No other fighting game does that.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
You are just bad, briggs.
sr45demon 2 years ago
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I never said I was bad, I'm a beast with Gen on SF4 and alpha 2,3 I just find the tactics pointed out in this video cheap and unhonorable.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
could you explain what 'you' consider cheap then? I only count rage quits myself...
axiomprime 2 years ago
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Well as far as SF4 goes not much seeing as the game is still new, so the bugs haven't been found yet. But, in these videos: Cross ups.. Clearly a flaw in the programing. The E. Honda low jab ocho throw over and over. cheap. The Ryu hadouken sweep that's cheap. In the video he says his self "don't worry about being cheap". Its never fun to play cheap fighters. Unless winning is all you play for, and what fun is that? Like I said if your a tournament player OK, but why be cheap in friendly fights?
jbriggs06 2 years ago
You are what Sirlin calls a "scrub" player. But I guess that's your business. As long as you're having fun...
Jouvittuhomo 2 years ago
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Whatever, I'm just "old fashion" because I still believe in playing fair. If that makes me a scrub then so be it, but I bet I'd take Sirlin apart in Soul Calibur.
jbriggs06 2 years ago
Comment removed
Kopfshot 2 years ago
Nobody gives a shit about that game.
Super Turbo (arcade) is the most hardcore fighting on the planet.
Games like soul calibur were made for mainstream noobs like you to feel good about yourself.
Ask any real, proven fighting pro and they'll say the same thing.
So enjoy being good at your second rate game which means nothing.
And I'm pretty sure Sirlin could destroy you in a short period of time, as would any super turbo player.
Jamerio3D 2 years ago
"Nobody gives a shit about that game" lol news flash nobody gives a shit about you or what you think. "Ask any real, proven fighting pro" I reject your opinion unless you can prove that you're a champion. "Sirlin could destroy you in a short period of time, as would any super turbo player." The same goes to you. It really doesn't matter if he could beat me or not. I bet unlike you I'd have a blast just playing the game. Besides chess is the only REAL man's game an I'd destroy him in that.
jbriggs06 2 years ago 2
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"Super Turbo (arcade) is the most hardcore fighting on the planet."
Nope, sorry. Much as I enjoy ST, that crown goes to Guilty Gear.
heavensxnight 2 years ago
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I hope you are joking.
I played this game for years and that was my biggest mistake, there is no mind game involved at gealty gear, just stupid easy pressing over and over again until you get the 50% combo. wow, amazing. i was surprised how it's easy to win at this game when you practiced all the setups to pull off combos.
Well basically it goes like that.
May looks a great 2D game but trust me:
Guilty gear = fail.
chefar 2 years ago
No, I wasn't joking, and I wish you were even though I can tell you aren't.
Though combos help, they do not decide a match - and SF2 makes a point of that with its lack of freeform gameplay consisting almost entirely of zoning and pokes. GG is far more execution heavy, and that goes beyond combos.
It would seem to me that you are a scrub at GG who's actually pretty terrible at the game.
heavensxnight 2 years ago
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Nope, all youtube jerks commenting sh!t like "GG is hardcore" are meaningless to me, i cant' argue with someone who think that GG is a complex game, sorry. You must sux at fighting games to say that.
You are just another newbie who thinks flashy games are cooler and FRC/80% HP combos are very hardcore stuff.
Now get lost and go practice instant air-dash kid xD
chefar 2 years ago
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You should've stopped at "i cant' argue"; you make baseless inferences about why I tout GG as more complex when I already said it goes beyond combos, then you infer because of my opinion about GG, that I must suck at fighting games et al.
I'll let you think what you want, there's obviously this thing you lack called reason.
heavensxnight 2 years ago
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ok! we both know pretty much everything about GG.
GG is Bad, period. <---- My opinion
GG is the most hardcore game <-- yours
I tried briefly to explain why i think it's not worth to play game on my 1st post.
You said nothing but GG is complex and stuff, and i agree! but hell! it wasn't FOR ME and any experienced play will master the game (some characters) very quickly.
Thus newbies like you can always talk about how harcore GG is, but remember, hardcore game isn't necessarily a good game.
chefar 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
My argument from the very beginning was not critiquing game quality versus game difficulty, which you wanted to say belonged to SF2. I've played SF2 and all its iterations, among many other fighting games since they came out; I know what I'm talking about.
heavensxnight 2 years ago
Thank you David.
kariido1 2 years ago 3
>_>
In essence, I think Sirlin just instructed players on how to tick.
HinataChan30 2 years ago
also even if you put it on the easiest settings the cpu will still rape you silly left right & centre so I play SSF2 on my megadrive or ds turbo rival at on there it give you a fair chance.
gaznyhawks 2 years ago
I've got SSF2T on my anniversay collection, & I have a very had time pulling off the dragon punch motion with ryu/ken/akuma/feilong/cammy&sagat. all the other street fighters i can pull it off no probs but on da collection it rarely lets me do it for sum odd reason & instead it does a fireball wiv ken & ryu for e.g.
gaznyhawks 2 years ago
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@0:42 - The gayest shit evah in games. This bitch is safe all day on this bullshit. thats a fucking Exploit.
SDSOverfiend 2 years ago
Here's the deal with it. Each frame of every move has been tested. There is a glitch or two, but Chun Li's head stomp is not one of them. If you notice, that move, which uses medium kick, does absolutly minimal damage, so you can literally head stomp me for all 99 seconds, and most characters will still have health! It was put into the game to give her special qualities as a poker, because zangief can OWN her all day if she couldn't, if she does it all day, your still completly safe from death.
hiPlasma 2 years ago
Safe from Death? Im going to check up on this right now.
SDSOverfiend 2 years ago
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Those safe jumps were so cheap lol. Skillful though, but it is a way to be an ass.
EternalFire00 3 years ago
Cheap? Read Sirlin's book called Playing to Win.
xgunnBlaze 3 years ago 7
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I understand it for tourny's, but I would be pissed if somebody did it to me just on a casual game.
EternalFire00 3 years ago
Do all of these strategies still work on SSF2T HD Remix?
supernovajm 3 years ago 2
^ Yes.
JigglyNorris 3 years ago
Hey I know you! You're one of the guys that joined the upcoming tournament for HD Remix!
evilaj2010 3 years ago
Liek omg!
JigglyNorris 3 years ago