it all makes sense kain saw that raziel was goning to be in th e blade he was going throught history to change that ending so raziel could have his free well wow..... so bittersweet and theyre were like brothers
@Madmanin It's not 'troll', it's 'trawl'. It's a form of fishing that involves dragging nets along the sea bottom. It's also an insult, because it's mostly for bottom feeders. That's why he tells Raziel 'not to get caught in his nets'.
okay, stop me if I'm wrong, the death of Ariel stopped Kain from becoming the balance guardian, and Kain put Raziel through all that shit, so he could get the spirit reaver, and with the spirit reaver he purified Kain so he could finally become the guardian?
The death of Ariel *made* Kain the balance guardian - Kain was born at the exact moment of Ariel's death to take her place. When Nupraptor discovered Ariel dead, his grief corrupted the entire circle, including Kain, which is why the pillars fell. By purifying the wraith blade and entering the physical Reaver, Raziel purified Kain, allowing him to fulfill his true role as the Balance Guardian.
@Joudas And Kain FINALLY becomes the True Balance Guardian again at the end of Defiance and then Crystal goes and leaves us hanging. Goddammit we wanna know WHY Kain did all this! We need another game! >:{
No, Kain didn't know what was going to happen. All he knew is that Raziel was the soul in the Soul Reaver and that going back in time he had a chance to change the circle of history.
Not sure if it's the best in the history of the world, but I can't listen to it without getting chills. This whole series is the best vampire story ever crafted.
It was evident in SR1, too - Kain banters with Raziel in an almost friendly manner even while he's fighting him. I conjecture that Kain knew he couldn't kill Raziel (Kain couldn't reach into the spectral realm, so there was really no danger for Raziel in that fight).
@Joudas "I am as I always was, Your right hand..." - Raziel. Kain NEVER wanted to see Raziel suffer, he was his favored son, his right hand, he cared for him and oddly that is why he threw him into the abyss, he didn't want to see him become imprisoned in the reaver sword. It's really amazing, and you see at the end of defiance, Kain is in utter grief trying to pull the blade from Raziel. This story is so beautifully written, I wish they would make another game.
all this was planned by Kain, from the execution of Raziel untill the very meeting on the pillars, listen carefully even Kain says that he counted on Raziel anger because he know that it will lead him to this very moment. In the end of SR when they were fighting Kain just was playing with Raziel so that he would pursui him further.
also, there is site that went through the SR1 disc, and looked at all the un-used material, and you can find audio and maps for an alternate ending, in that ending raziel kills kain at the end of SR1, killing kain would remove the last corruption of the pillars, and raziel looks to the future, wondering if the land will heal
At the last minute, they decided not to do this, because they wanted to expand the story, and make additional games
When I first heard that Nosgoth was being destroyed by the pillar's corruption, I thought, why don't they just sever the pillar's connection to the land, ending the corruption and restoring the world. Even after I heard about the Hylden, I thought that it was strange that no one would think of that, even before learning of the bad result of that action, Kain and his empire could easily destroy the Hylden once and for all.
Well, the Hylden were many, in the billions, and very powerful. Even Kain himself wouldn't be able to defeat them ALL, even with the aid of EVERY vampire, including his lieutenants. The Glyph magix nearly eliminated the Hylden. Kain was barely able to defeat them without the Reaver, but he managed it. The only time the Hylden could ever return would be if there was only ONE vampire left.
If Raziel had activated the Silenced Cathedral, all vampires would've died, and the Hylden would return...
Oops, I didn't mean "The Glyph magics nearly eliminated the Hylden", I mean the Glyph magics nearly eliminated the Vampires. Bit of a mix-up, there...
I've read many books in my life, many novels. They weren't as good as the storyline of Legacy of Kain. What they should actually do is make a Legacy of Kain novel. Hell, i'd sure read it.
"Suppose you throw a coin enough times... suppose one day, it lands on its edge"... undescribeably great... another of my most beloved quotes from this game. D.R.
watch more of my videos and you can learn more plus get attention to a truth seeker, me. kain is very real, the first vampire and totally immortal, he was orginally judas who betrayed jesus and then dracula. you won't believe this but he has come for me several times and i fought with him, i have alot of faith in many things and i'm not all good. vampirism is a real condition which can be cured with faith, medication, dentistry and the will to be normal again, it is very hard with much saddness.
if kain had taken the sacifice, no vampires, no winged beings and humans would have to deal with the hilden. but of course time travel is involved and there are others in the show, also these games are games that contain part truth. most of you couldn't handle the truth, i wish i knew less.
My curiosity was stirred by your comment. Would you mind to share that which you say part truth? It doesn't matter if some people here see it as conspiracy. Just like what Kain said, suppose one day that coin (that possibility) lands on its edge...
Notice that when the pillars become corrupted Kain holds his head like he's in pain. Apparently he is still considered the balance guardian since Nupraptor's madness had an affect on him.
But since the pillars choose their guardians from birth and vampires are no longer born they had to be the choice. That's why Kain was made by Mortanius, so the pillars could go fall back under vampire rule.
That might not clear things up but who knows it might help. Sorry it was a bit long.
The pillars were erected to lock the hylden away, and there only means of full escape would be to destory the pillars and have a pure vessel to live in to unlock the binding.
As the pillars weaken a few can escape but still not live fully in Nosgoth, and so they needed Janos Audron to fufill their plan.
The pillars could not survive without vampire gaurdians because human souls (at least I think it's that) are not strong enough to support the pillars.
Love this scene, and I love Kain's bit about the coin, and the way he says "apparently so".
Anyway, the main point of my post was to explain the pillars, if I can this is how I see it.
The vampires were at war with the hylden and in order to end the war they banished the hylden to the demon realm. Has the Hylden were banished they cursed the vampires, causing them to become immortal, have a bloodthirst and be infertile.
Not sure if I can do this since you can only type so much so we will see
Something seems funny to me. The pillars were originally created to keep the Hylden sealed away. The Pillar Guardians roles were to keep them that way, to preserve the lock that held the Hylden at bay. Now, is that the pillars only purpose, or do they also act as the elemets that sustain Nosgoths integrity? I ask cuz when the pillars are destroyed everything seems to die and rot. But if their only purpose was to hold back the Hylden, wouldn't the fallen pillars set them free and not rot Nosgoth?
It may be retconn but I assume it's both. Originally, the pillars were to sustain Nosgoth, hence the implied meaning in their name "The PILLARS of Nosgoth".
Amy Hennig may have adapted this to fit the Hylden storyline which was not created by the Crystal Dynamics crew.
I thought it was the monsters from the hylden realm that made Nosgoth rot, that and what Kain did to the sky (In SR1 it says Kain blacked out the sky to protect the vampires). Which is why they were killing everything in SR2 and breaking everything.
Yes, I also think that. It seems the original guardians used the force of the land to strengthen the barrier that held the Hylden. Every pillar has a theme, like Death, Mind, Time, Balance, Conflict,States, Dimension and Nature.These are essencial to the health of the land and all the living beings there.
It can't be both. Destroying the pillar of conflict doesn't make it so there is less conflict in the world. And destroying the pillar of nature doesnt make it so there is less nature in the world. The land rots because it is no longer seperated from the demonic corruption of the demon dimension that the Hylden are in. The 9 pillars just represent the different ingredients needed to create such a barrier between the two dimensions.
It is both, but I may have not explained well. The Pillars were raised to restore balance to the world, which was severely shaked by a weapon the Hylden used, and to keep them banished from Nosgoth.
I think the pillars were created by the Ancients to keep the Hylden at bay in the Demon realm, but it may be that they use up so much energy to do so that if they were corrupted or destroyed, then this would effect the state of Nosgoth.
soul reaver 2 is the best game of the series. and the part with kain: suppouse you throw the coin enough times.supouuse one day it lands on it's edge i like this part a lot :D
This has to be one of the best scenes in the series. (Well, except for the one right before the fight with the Elder God in Defiance, but that's just because that scene proved a lot of my theories.) It gives me goosebumps every time I see it.
It's so sad that Defiance seems to be the last in the series. Legacy of Kain has to be my favorite game series of all time, for the incredibly deep storyline, memorable characters, and remarkable writing.
Woah, I wonder since when did Kain put all his hopes on Raziel(Ironic, considering the one whom he threw into the abyss out of simple pure Jealously)?
He had done so from the very begining as Raziel's soul is the same that is in the reaver(which is why it broke when kain tried killing him with it) and since two instances of the reaver existing at the same time nullifies the effect of being bound by fate kain could then use that to rewrite history sothat he didn't destroy the world.
Kain didn't throw Raziel into the abyss out of jealousy. He saw that Raziel was becoming like the one who Moebius had shown him would be the one who would kill him.
I don't think this is shown in any of the games, but in one of the last cutscenes in Defiance, when Kain looks out over the detroyed Pillars from the Vampire Citadel, he sums up the events so far and talks about casting the strongest one of his lieutenants, Raziel, into the abyss to deal one last hand against fate. It didn't work out because Raziel came back, though.
The likeness of the Hylden champion? Really, I'm just speculating but it all makes sense to me like that. But it's very clear to me that Kain didn't throw him into the Abyss out of jealousy. He says it himself in the cutscene I described earlier.
yes, but it is not that he deliberately threw him into the abyss for purpose to use him as a trump card to restore history as it should, Raziel's unexpected return was the result of his action and after the colliding of the two reavers (as williamdojinn pointed out) was where he put his hopes on raziel.
Kain had thrown Raziel into the abyss knowing that he would return. Raziel's return removed him from the Wheel of Fate, making Raziel the only creature who truly had free will. Kain had counted on this from the beginning so that he could mold Raziel (who is, at one point, the Soul Reaver) into the key that would alter the past and future. Using paradoxes involving the Reaver (Raziel), Kain was able to find a way to preserve Nosgoth and remain as it's ruler.
That's not true, Kain threw him into the abyss to execute him9nothin more nothin less). Raziel's unexpected return defied the the concept Wheel of Fate that all living things are bounded and he possessed free will and from the second botched attempt to kill him made kain realize that Raziel could be the key to restore Kain's true destiny.
Actually, Kain really didn't throw Raziel into the abyss as a punishment. Kain knew that Raziel would come back. It's been a while, so I can't remember all of his motives, but it was only made to look like Kain tossed him in because of his evolution.
Yes, you're right, the reaver shattered because the physical blade encountered it's living spectral self-raziel. this is the paradox that resulted in the shattering of the blade. Technically, this is Kain's second time to witness this, remember the battle with him and 'William the just'when two reavers collided as Kain will tell raziel in just a few cuscenes ahead?
I agree. Thanks for the explanation. This is the best story line I've come across but sometimes it can get confusing. This has probably already been explaned but what about the Elder God from the first game. What's his role or will I leanr that later?
the elder god is the entity that is trying to destroy the vampires and bring about the destruction of the pillars. This is discovered in LoK: Defiance.
since Vampires are sterile and are unable to be born...the hylden knew it was only a matter of time before they would be free again. Kain knows that he is meant to be the savior of Nozgoth and Raziel is the key to that. (I have to get to work now...I'll be back and elaborate more later)
True, no doubt he orhestrated the ancient war between the hylden and the Vampires as Raziel pointed out in Defiance when he mentioned the vampires gulled by the old parasite's voice.
But destroying the pillars will mean the release of the hylden and they are even worse. How can he possibly benefit from this?
Please, could anyone expalin to me why Kain, with the help of unawere Raziel, is going to alter the future? I know Razie is deluded and lured by all the time...but Kain knows smth and to the certain moment he keeps it under the mask of brute and tormentor. So what's at stake?
In this part of the story Kain is showing Raziel how his destiny was altered from its original path. He is trying to make Raziel understand that the pillers need to be restored...but that humans are unfit to be the guardians. If Kain had sacrificed himself it would not bring about the ends that would ensure Nosgoths' revival. Kain wants to restore the pillers to the Vampires...or the "Winged Race" which is that of Janus Aldron's race (explained later on in the story).
The pillars will first pick their successors from this race (Vampires)...but if that race does not exist then it will choose from human stock. The pillars were created by the winged race to keep out of Nosgoth an evil race known as the hylden which had previously fought a war with the Vampires and had been banished from this world.
The Pillars are the lock which binds the hylden from this world...the Soul Reaver is the key to that lock...and Kain is the Guardian of Balance which ensures the pillars remain whole and intact. Humans...not understanding of this origin (and who are inertly corrupt) would not be able to hold the hylden out of the world.
Kain is trying to save Nosgoth with Raziel's help. Raziel is one of the only beings alive with true free will and who can overcome the wheel of fate and restore Nosgoth to its proper state (which is what is at stake).
Gret thanks to you, but please tell me why did Kain try to attack Raziel with the Soul Reaver at the first time he saw him after throwing him into abyss? Was it because he knew that Raziel destiny is to be devoured by the Soul Reaver? His speech to Raziel was at least striking then.
As is said Raziel is the only one to posess true free will. Kain strikes Raziel down because it's what he always does in the timeline. Raziel must aquire the wraith blade for the rest of the events to happen (e.g. repairing the blade in king williams tomb so Kain may aquire it later to shatter it over Raziel). Kain knew that was going to happen because he said "And so it begins". Kain knows about Raziel being in the reaver (though it's never stated...i believe it so).
Say, the hylden knew and expect Kain not to choose the sacrifice but on the other hand if he chose to, it still won't make a difference. Regardless of Kain's decision between the two choices, the Hylden benefits-care to elaborate on this?
Kain knows that to destroy himself he ultimately will allow the hylden to win. Humans are unfit to control and guard over the pillars. The hylden knew this and that's why they cast the vampiric curse over the winged race turning them into vampires. Thus since the pillars choose their guardians from birth and
If Kain accepted the sacrifice, the Pillars would have been restored, therefore sealing the Hylden in a demon's dimension for eternity. Only way to prosper was if Kain was corrupt.
no it wouldn't. The Pillars nosgoth but true purpose was to seal the hylden.the human guardians never realized their true significance except for Mortanius(defiance).kain sacrifice himself, the vampires would be extinct and since the human guardians are weak, the hylden can easily break free unless vampires guradianship is restored, this is Kain ultimate agenda since Soul reaver 2 as he said here. you did finish defiance didn't you?
to some point janos is the hulden therefore he and raziel are the only remains of the winged race(dont ask me how cuz i dont know either)but the hylden cant take over raziel for obvous reasons(semi dead)and janos is alive(well hi dies he lives then he dies again and then the hylden takes over)but what if the hylden is an aspect of the elder god then thing would make a little more sence
The war between the Ancients and the Hylden started because the latter WOULDN'T worship the Elder God. And Janos ends up falling into the Demon Realm at the end of Blood Omen II. Kind of like the Emperor at the end of Return of the Jedi, actually...
I'm willing to know when and why Kain became aware of all that things concerning what he and Raziel are and what is their real purpose. Can we trully say that Kain realised these higher destinytys like also was he really ever jealous of Raziel's newly developed wing in the distant future?
No, Kain learned a lot from Moebius chronoplast. His investigations began well before Raziel was made. Kain created Raziel solely to kill him (which emphasises Kain's unrepentant evil)
I agree that this is one of the best dialogues in the series. =3 The great thing about this series is that after you've played it a dozen times you're still learning.
I love this scene, it's my favourite, it says everything about both Raziel and Kain, explains Kains true intentions, and the philosophy of storytelling is exquisite.
Amy Hennig, who's moved on to new projects, wrote SR1, SR2 and Defiance ... the trilogy of Raziel. She's a talented writer who should be writing screenplays.
This series rocks for one major thing--its dialogue. I mean, wow. I've never heard such deep statements made in any other videogame or movie for that matter.
"you said so yourself, Kain...there are only two sides to the coin."
"Apparently so. But suppose you thorw a coin enough times...suppose one day, it lands on its edge."
What is this "madness" that Kain speaks of? What did he o that makes him "mad"?
bawokoroma 4 hours ago
God damn, goosebumps every time.
ccmonkeyman 3 weeks ago
it all makes sense kain saw that raziel was goning to be in th e blade he was going throught history to change that ending so raziel could have his free well wow..... so bittersweet and theyre were like brothers
jakespnl463 2 months ago
"Moebius trolls"
Understatement of the century.
CrystalisKnight 8 months ago
@CrystalisKnight I knew I couldnt be the only one who heard "Moebius trolls for the ignorant and unwary".
Madmanin 8 months ago
@Madmanin It's not 'troll', it's 'trawl'. It's a form of fishing that involves dragging nets along the sea bottom. It's also an insult, because it's mostly for bottom feeders. That's why he tells Raziel 'not to get caught in his nets'.
Skyness217 5 months ago
"I know you're there, Raziel"
damn Kain's such a smartass (and badass)
DasFunkwagen 8 months ago
This is undoubtly the best game of the series...and makes me sad to know that such a wonderfull story might not ever see an ending...
My hopes goes to the will of Square Enix...hopes for a new episode...
Griever99 9 months ago
isnt it amazing how this whole series has so many questions u just gotta ask?
rly amazing game plot is 5/5 really deep and not so easy to understand.
Zarzanator 11 months ago
I simply love this game.... o yes....
make me cry... from the first time...
SR2 the best of LoK...
from here start something....
LuigiMontanaro2 1 year ago 2
Probably one of the best voice-acted scenes and well written scene in modern day storytelling.
djvillain 1 year ago 2
*sniff ;P its been so long since i played any of the kains.....i love it so much and miss it plz make another, we all know its so underrated.
ZDB92 1 year ago
This scene always gives me goosebumps.
derlich09 1 year ago
Kain is more stronger than Raziel
But Raziel is cheating ( always that damn spectral ) if it was a fight between
Kain & Raziel (with out the spectral realm ) Kain could have win . So
screw Raziel.
LOKBLUDOM3N 1 year ago
It's weird, but i prefer the german voice of Raziel from Soul Reaver 2. Biel sounds too old and ... not badass.
Check it out:
watch?v=yycc9JTuTZA
YoungZer0 2 years ago
Same scene: watch?v=uR0bz6oCuJE
YoungZer0 2 years ago
okay, stop me if I'm wrong, the death of Ariel stopped Kain from becoming the balance guardian, and Kain put Raziel through all that shit, so he could get the spirit reaver, and with the spirit reaver he purified Kain so he could finally become the guardian?
ramsdiaz 2 years ago
The death of Ariel *made* Kain the balance guardian - Kain was born at the exact moment of Ariel's death to take her place. When Nupraptor discovered Ariel dead, his grief corrupted the entire circle, including Kain, which is why the pillars fell. By purifying the wraith blade and entering the physical Reaver, Raziel purified Kain, allowing him to fulfill his true role as the Balance Guardian.
Joudas 2 years ago 5
@Joudas And Kain FINALLY becomes the True Balance Guardian again at the end of Defiance and then Crystal goes and leaves us hanging. Goddammit we wanna know WHY Kain did all this! We need another game! >:{
Kanji08 5 months ago in playlist RAZIEL
@ramsdiaz
No, Kain didn't know what was going to happen. All he knew is that Raziel was the soul in the Soul Reaver and that going back in time he had a chance to change the circle of history.
djvillain 1 year ago
"Hate me, but do it honestly" I dunno why, but i just love that line! XD
infernai 2 years ago 29
Me too!! Amy is such a beautiful writer, she should do scripts for films, or theatre.
sexipants 2 years ago 2
"But suppose you throw a coin enough times... Suppose one day, it lands on its edge"
has to be the single greatest quote ever spoken in the history of this earth.
RAZZAtheREAVER 2 years ago 46
@RAZZAtheREAVER
Not sure if it's the best in the history of the world, but I can't listen to it without getting chills. This whole series is the best vampire story ever crafted.
Atreus21 1 year ago
Brilliant, simply brilliant. (-simply then)
Maladathsheep 2 years ago 3
Raziel didn´t died, hes just in the soul reaver. (Sorry, my english is not perfect)
XPrinnyX 2 years ago 2
The best fictional architecture in gaming history'. 'The Pillars Of Nosgoth. I relly wish they would do a next generation Soul Reaver!
Wardimus83 2 years ago
Raziel died in The Legacy Of Kain..
But however, the game was quite underrated..
So i think the series deserves at least a remake so that the public know what Soul Reaver is..
Zoza15 2 years ago
Yeah i know Raziel died, but come on, it is fiction, he could be brought back easy. I do agree with it being underrated though!
Wardimus83 2 years ago
Thanks Joudas for putting these up dude or dudette.
neato0z 2 years ago
"Suppose the coin lands... on it's edge..."
Damn. Kain is the luckiest guy ever. I'm taking him gambling.
Skaflar 2 years ago 4
Hasn't he, like, never lied? Ever?
I don't think a guy like that would go for gambling, especially when he's busy playing cat-and-mouse with time and space.
PeterDivine 2 years ago
its strange how kain's attitude toward raziel changes after they leave SR one.
SPACEKNIGHT07 2 years ago 2
It was evident in SR1, too - Kain banters with Raziel in an almost friendly manner even while he's fighting him. I conjecture that Kain knew he couldn't kill Raziel (Kain couldn't reach into the spectral realm, so there was really no danger for Raziel in that fight).
Joudas 2 years ago 3
@Joudas "I am as I always was, Your right hand..." - Raziel. Kain NEVER wanted to see Raziel suffer, he was his favored son, his right hand, he cared for him and oddly that is why he threw him into the abyss, he didn't want to see him become imprisoned in the reaver sword. It's really amazing, and you see at the end of defiance, Kain is in utter grief trying to pull the blade from Raziel. This story is so beautifully written, I wish they would make another game.
CthulhuDarkLord 16 hours ago
all this was planned by Kain, from the execution of Raziel untill the very meeting on the pillars, listen carefully even Kain says that he counted on Raziel anger because he know that it will lead him to this very moment. In the end of SR when they were fighting Kain just was playing with Raziel so that he would pursui him further.
TheLegacyofKain 2 years ago
also, there is site that went through the SR1 disc, and looked at all the un-used material, and you can find audio and maps for an alternate ending, in that ending raziel kills kain at the end of SR1, killing kain would remove the last corruption of the pillars, and raziel looks to the future, wondering if the land will heal
At the last minute, they decided not to do this, because they wanted to expand the story, and make additional games
So the kain/raziel interaction had to change too
LordVigeous666999 1 year ago
the quality is amazing just great
Sparda797 2 years ago 2
When I first heard that Nosgoth was being destroyed by the pillar's corruption, I thought, why don't they just sever the pillar's connection to the land, ending the corruption and restoring the world. Even after I heard about the Hylden, I thought that it was strange that no one would think of that, even before learning of the bad result of that action, Kain and his empire could easily destroy the Hylden once and for all.
immortalfrieza 2 years ago
Well, the Hylden were many, in the billions, and very powerful. Even Kain himself wouldn't be able to defeat them ALL, even with the aid of EVERY vampire, including his lieutenants. The Glyph magix nearly eliminated the Hylden. Kain was barely able to defeat them without the Reaver, but he managed it. The only time the Hylden could ever return would be if there was only ONE vampire left.
If Raziel had activated the Silenced Cathedral, all vampires would've died, and the Hylden would return...
GmodPlusWoW 2 years ago
Oops, I didn't mean "The Glyph magics nearly eliminated the Hylden", I mean the Glyph magics nearly eliminated the Vampires. Bit of a mix-up, there...
GmodPlusWoW 2 years ago
"Suppose you throw a coin enough times, suppose one day, it lands on it's edge"
Best Line EVER! Kain always had the best video game voice for a main villan. Especially kain. Brillaint.
Mattsworkname 2 years ago 4
He's uber-enigmatic, that Kain.
GmodPlusWoW 2 years ago
Not really a villain, more of a tragic hero, hauled down a poorly scrawled path of destiny.
GmodPlusWoW 2 years ago
100th comment!
kain & raziel rule
alexthelizardking 2 years ago 3
The words and dialogues in these games have expanded my mind with new concepts and theories.
GmodPlusWoW 2 years ago 3
try reading a book, it may blow your mind!
goodflo911 2 years ago
I've read many books in my life, many novels. They weren't as good as the storyline of Legacy of Kain. What they should actually do is make a Legacy of Kain novel. Hell, i'd sure read it.
GmodPlusWoW 2 years ago 3
same here i love these games there the best
wolfsora 2 years ago 3
These type of games are hard to develop.
Zoza15 2 years ago
yea thats true story line computer programming and texting with art to thats alot of work and it can take up to 1 to 3 years
wolfsora 2 years ago
The Engine is the biggest work actually ^^..
Zoza15 2 years ago
lol problly i havent seen any engines yet for making games
wolfsora 2 years ago
Never heard of Game Engines before?...
Without a game Engine, there is basically no game you can build on..
Zoza15 2 years ago
o i heard about it i just never seen it in action
wolfsora 2 years ago
dude i wonder if they do have books of this out there somewhere that would be great
wolfsora 2 years ago
yeah that would be great
TheLegacyofKain 2 years ago
Kain's voice has the perfect balance of sinister and elegant.
Additionally, the music in the background through this scene is tremendous.
masterofthedeck 2 years ago 6
best scene ever
Revan595 3 years ago
this is my most favourite part in the game
TheLegacyofKain 3 years ago 2
"Hate me, but do it honestly" marvellous...
"Suppose you throw a coin enough times... suppose one day, it lands on its edge"... undescribeably great... another of my most beloved quotes from this game. D.R.
Hasfast 3 years ago
i love soul reaver...the dialogue is perfect and the story is so well written that the cutscenes are just nothing short of mesmerizing
Laxagoodname300 2 years ago 3
when raziel says that moebius led him to the pillars, look at kain's face change!
swordninja567 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
watch more of my videos and you can learn more plus get attention to a truth seeker, me. kain is very real, the first vampire and totally immortal, he was orginally judas who betrayed jesus and then dracula. you won't believe this but he has come for me several times and i fought with him, i have alot of faith in many things and i'm not all good. vampirism is a real condition which can be cured with faith, medication, dentistry and the will to be normal again, it is very hard with much saddness.
tidogon 3 years ago
kain was first kain one of the sons of adam and eve THEN judas THEN dracula
and yes they are or were or is real
calypso694 3 years ago
if kain had taken the sacifice, no vampires, no winged beings and humans would have to deal with the hilden. but of course time travel is involved and there are others in the show, also these games are games that contain part truth. most of you couldn't handle the truth, i wish i knew less.
tidogon 3 years ago
My curiosity was stirred by your comment. Would you mind to share that which you say part truth? It doesn't matter if some people here see it as conspiracy. Just like what Kain said, suppose one day that coin (that possibility) lands on its edge...
TurboTite 3 years ago
Notice that when the pillars become corrupted Kain holds his head like he's in pain. Apparently he is still considered the balance guardian since Nupraptor's madness had an affect on him.
zod933 3 years ago
It is more like Nupraptor's shockwave stirred the madness that was already within Kain
swordninja567 3 years ago
But since the pillars choose their guardians from birth and vampires are no longer born they had to be the choice. That's why Kain was made by Mortanius, so the pillars could go fall back under vampire rule.
That might not clear things up but who knows it might help. Sorry it was a bit long.
Impathain 3 years ago
The pillars were erected to lock the hylden away, and there only means of full escape would be to destory the pillars and have a pure vessel to live in to unlock the binding.
As the pillars weaken a few can escape but still not live fully in Nosgoth, and so they needed Janos Audron to fufill their plan.
The pillars could not survive without vampire gaurdians because human souls (at least I think it's that) are not strong enough to support the pillars.
Impathain 3 years ago
Love this scene, and I love Kain's bit about the coin, and the way he says "apparently so".
Anyway, the main point of my post was to explain the pillars, if I can this is how I see it.
The vampires were at war with the hylden and in order to end the war they banished the hylden to the demon realm. Has the Hylden were banished they cursed the vampires, causing them to become immortal, have a bloodthirst and be infertile.
Not sure if I can do this since you can only type so much so we will see
Impathain 3 years ago
sounds a bit like quantum physics when Kain talked about the coin throwing ,
jmm1233 3 years ago
Raziel is the coin.
countrygirl88 3 years ago
Something seems funny to me. The pillars were originally created to keep the Hylden sealed away. The Pillar Guardians roles were to keep them that way, to preserve the lock that held the Hylden at bay. Now, is that the pillars only purpose, or do they also act as the elemets that sustain Nosgoths integrity? I ask cuz when the pillars are destroyed everything seems to die and rot. But if their only purpose was to hold back the Hylden, wouldn't the fallen pillars set them free and not rot Nosgoth?
Schandas 4 years ago
I've been wondering the same thing.And the Hylden were set free.
RFAKain 4 years ago
It may be retconn but I assume it's both. Originally, the pillars were to sustain Nosgoth, hence the implied meaning in their name "The PILLARS of Nosgoth".
Amy Hennig may have adapted this to fit the Hylden storyline which was not created by the Crystal Dynamics crew.
djvillain 4 years ago
I thought it was the monsters from the hylden realm that made Nosgoth rot, that and what Kain did to the sky (In SR1 it says Kain blacked out the sky to protect the vampires). Which is why they were killing everything in SR2 and breaking everything.
nightengale2745 4 years ago
Yes, I also think that. It seems the original guardians used the force of the land to strengthen the barrier that held the Hylden. Every pillar has a theme, like Death, Mind, Time, Balance, Conflict,States, Dimension and Nature.These are essencial to the health of the land and all the living beings there.
Anihime 3 years ago
Oh! I forgot the 9th pillar: Energy ;)
Anihime 3 years ago
It can't be both. Destroying the pillar of conflict doesn't make it so there is less conflict in the world. And destroying the pillar of nature doesnt make it so there is less nature in the world. The land rots because it is no longer seperated from the demonic corruption of the demon dimension that the Hylden are in. The 9 pillars just represent the different ingredients needed to create such a barrier between the two dimensions.
Bloodthroe 3 years ago
It is both, but I may have not explained well. The Pillars were raised to restore balance to the world, which was severely shaked by a weapon the Hylden used, and to keep them banished from Nosgoth.
Anihime 3 years ago
I think the pillars were created by the Ancients to keep the Hylden at bay in the Demon realm, but it may be that they use up so much energy to do so that if they were corrupted or destroyed, then this would effect the state of Nosgoth.
Emphasis on "I think" xxxxx
Rossta216 3 years ago
soul reaver 2 is the best game of the series. and the part with kain: suppouse you throw the coin enough times.supouuse one day it lands on it's edge i like this part a lot :D
pulasa 4 years ago 3
This has to be one of the best scenes in the series. (Well, except for the one right before the fight with the Elder God in Defiance, but that's just because that scene proved a lot of my theories.) It gives me goosebumps every time I see it.
It's so sad that Defiance seems to be the last in the series. Legacy of Kain has to be my favorite game series of all time, for the incredibly deep storyline, memorable characters, and remarkable writing.
Arathe 4 years ago 2
Woah, I wonder since when did Kain put all his hopes on Raziel(Ironic, considering the one whom he threw into the abyss out of simple pure Jealously)?
mansuru 4 years ago
He had done so from the very begining as Raziel's soul is the same that is in the reaver(which is why it broke when kain tried killing him with it) and since two instances of the reaver existing at the same time nullifies the effect of being bound by fate kain could then use that to rewrite history sothat he didn't destroy the world.
williamdojinn 4 years ago
Kain didn't throw Raziel into the abyss out of jealousy. He saw that Raziel was becoming like the one who Moebius had shown him would be the one who would kill him.
Razielim1 4 years ago
huH? could you elaborate more on this like where did moebius showed him this?
mansuru 4 years ago
I don't think this is shown in any of the games, but in one of the last cutscenes in Defiance, when Kain looks out over the detroyed Pillars from the Vampire Citadel, he sums up the events so far and talks about casting the strongest one of his lieutenants, Raziel, into the abyss to deal one last hand against fate. It didn't work out because Raziel came back, though.
Razielim1 4 years ago
what was Raziel becoming like that would kill him?
mansuru 4 years ago
The likeness of the Hylden champion? Really, I'm just speculating but it all makes sense to me like that. But it's very clear to me that Kain didn't throw him into the Abyss out of jealousy. He says it himself in the cutscene I described earlier.
Razielim1 4 years ago
yes, but it is not that he deliberately threw him into the abyss for purpose to use him as a trump card to restore history as it should, Raziel's unexpected return was the result of his action and after the colliding of the two reavers (as williamdojinn pointed out) was where he put his hopes on raziel.
mansuru 4 years ago
So the grin on Kain's face after the Reaver shattered when he tried to strike Raziel down was more because he saw an opportunity?
Razielim1 4 years ago
Kain had thrown Raziel into the abyss knowing that he would return. Raziel's return removed him from the Wheel of Fate, making Raziel the only creature who truly had free will. Kain had counted on this from the beginning so that he could mold Raziel (who is, at one point, the Soul Reaver) into the key that would alter the past and future. Using paradoxes involving the Reaver (Raziel), Kain was able to find a way to preserve Nosgoth and remain as it's ruler.
Altier 4 years ago 2
That's not true, Kain threw him into the abyss to execute him9nothin more nothin less). Raziel's unexpected return defied the the concept Wheel of Fate that all living things are bounded and he possessed free will and from the second botched attempt to kill him made kain realize that Raziel could be the key to restore Kain's true destiny.
mansuru 4 years ago
Actually, Kain really didn't throw Raziel into the abyss as a punishment. Kain knew that Raziel would come back. It's been a while, so I can't remember all of his motives, but it was only made to look like Kain tossed him in because of his evolution.
Panzermanathod 4 years ago
Yes, to be blunt.
mansuru 4 years ago
Yes, you're right, the reaver shattered because the physical blade encountered it's living spectral self-raziel. this is the paradox that resulted in the shattering of the blade. Technically, this is Kain's second time to witness this, remember the battle with him and 'William the just'when two reavers collided as Kain will tell raziel in just a few cuscenes ahead?
mansuru 4 years ago
I really love this part!
AlexDIIM 4 years ago
I agree. Thanks for the explanation. This is the best story line I've come across but sometimes it can get confusing. This has probably already been explaned but what about the Elder God from the first game. What's his role or will I leanr that later?
ntfoemy 4 years ago
the elder god is the entity that is trying to destroy the vampires and bring about the destruction of the pillars. This is discovered in LoK: Defiance.
apiontk 4 years ago
since Vampires are sterile and are unable to be born...the hylden knew it was only a matter of time before they would be free again. Kain knows that he is meant to be the savior of Nozgoth and Raziel is the key to that. (I have to get to work now...I'll be back and elaborate more later)
apiontk 4 years ago
True, no doubt he orhestrated the ancient war between the hylden and the Vampires as Raziel pointed out in Defiance when he mentioned the vampires gulled by the old parasite's voice.
But destroying the pillars will mean the release of the hylden and they are even worse. How can he possibly benefit from this?
mansuru 4 years ago
Yeah, this is the BEST take on vampire mythology i've seen.
SageofSorrow 4 years ago
Tkank you very much for all these explanations
przyby 4 years ago
Please, could anyone expalin to me why Kain, with the help of unawere Raziel, is going to alter the future? I know Razie is deluded and lured by all the time...but Kain knows smth and to the certain moment he keeps it under the mask of brute and tormentor. So what's at stake?
przyby 4 years ago
In this part of the story Kain is showing Raziel how his destiny was altered from its original path. He is trying to make Raziel understand that the pillers need to be restored...but that humans are unfit to be the guardians. If Kain had sacrificed himself it would not bring about the ends that would ensure Nosgoths' revival. Kain wants to restore the pillers to the Vampires...or the "Winged Race" which is that of Janus Aldron's race (explained later on in the story).
apiontk 4 years ago
The pillars will first pick their successors from this race (Vampires)...but if that race does not exist then it will choose from human stock. The pillars were created by the winged race to keep out of Nosgoth an evil race known as the hylden which had previously fought a war with the Vampires and had been banished from this world.
apiontk 4 years ago
The Pillars are the lock which binds the hylden from this world...the Soul Reaver is the key to that lock...and Kain is the Guardian of Balance which ensures the pillars remain whole and intact. Humans...not understanding of this origin (and who are inertly corrupt) would not be able to hold the hylden out of the world.
apiontk 4 years ago
Kain is trying to save Nosgoth with Raziel's help. Raziel is one of the only beings alive with true free will and who can overcome the wheel of fate and restore Nosgoth to its proper state (which is what is at stake).
apiontk 4 years ago
Gret thanks to you, but please tell me why did Kain try to attack Raziel with the Soul Reaver at the first time he saw him after throwing him into abyss? Was it because he knew that Raziel destiny is to be devoured by the Soul Reaver? His speech to Raziel was at least striking then.
przyby 4 years ago
As is said Raziel is the only one to posess true free will. Kain strikes Raziel down because it's what he always does in the timeline. Raziel must aquire the wraith blade for the rest of the events to happen (e.g. repairing the blade in king williams tomb so Kain may aquire it later to shatter it over Raziel). Kain knew that was going to happen because he said "And so it begins". Kain knows about Raziel being in the reaver (though it's never stated...i believe it so).
apiontk 4 years ago
Say, the hylden knew and expect Kain not to choose the sacrifice but on the other hand if he chose to, it still won't make a difference. Regardless of Kain's decision between the two choices, the Hylden benefits-care to elaborate on this?
mansuru 4 years ago
Kain knows that to destroy himself he ultimately will allow the hylden to win. Humans are unfit to control and guard over the pillars. The hylden knew this and that's why they cast the vampiric curse over the winged race turning them into vampires. Thus since the pillars choose their guardians from birth and
apiontk 4 years ago
If Kain accepted the sacrifice, the Pillars would have been restored, therefore sealing the Hylden in a demon's dimension for eternity. Only way to prosper was if Kain was corrupt.
Altier 4 years ago
no it wouldn't. The Pillars nosgoth but true purpose was to seal the hylden.the human guardians never realized their true significance except for Mortanius(defiance).kain sacrifice himself, the vampires would be extinct and since the human guardians are weak, the hylden can easily break free unless vampires guradianship is restored, this is Kain ultimate agenda since Soul reaver 2 as he said here. you did finish defiance didn't you?
mansuru 4 years ago
I did, I hadn't taken that into account, though.
Altier 4 years ago
The story is complicated though awesome, it tends to throw gaps everytime.
mansuru 4 years ago
to some point janos is the hulden therefore he and raziel are the only remains of the winged race(dont ask me how cuz i dont know either)but the hylden cant take over raziel for obvous reasons(semi dead)and janos is alive(well hi dies he lives then he dies again and then the hylden takes over)but what if the hylden is an aspect of the elder god then thing would make a little more sence
guzarche3 4 years ago
The war between the Ancients and the Hylden started because the latter WOULDN'T worship the Elder God. And Janos ends up falling into the Demon Realm at the end of Blood Omen II. Kind of like the Emperor at the end of Return of the Jedi, actually...
silveryknight 4 years ago
"hate me...but do it honestly."
geeklord1 4 years ago
Versions i mean
bobo577 4 years ago
they be like 2 Brazilian i mean 2 trans lololol
theimperivm 4 years ago
What would Raziel and Kain look like as female version of them.
bobo577 4 years ago
I'm willing to know when and why Kain became aware of all that things concerning what he and Raziel are and what is their real purpose. Can we trully say that Kain realised these higher destinytys like also was he really ever jealous of Raziel's newly developed wing in the distant future?
przyby 4 years ago
No, Kain learned a lot from Moebius chronoplast. His investigations began well before Raziel was made. Kain created Raziel solely to kill him (which emphasises Kain's unrepentant evil)
Orumon27 4 years ago
u obviously havent played Legacy of Kain: Defiance
prideofasia99 4 years ago
"This isn't a chase, Raziel - we are merely passengers on the wheel of destiny, describing a perfect circle to this point.
We have been brought here for a reason.
I have seen the beginning and the end of our story, however - and the tale is crude and ill-conceived.
We must rewrite the ending of it, you and I." This short piece of dialog tells everything.. but I don't understand it at all and I'd like to...
przyby 4 years ago
I think that Kain is perhaps the smartest
bad guy/anti-hero in any computer game.
Smarter by far`than an hero or classic villain
Orumon27 4 years ago 4
He's certainly better than Darth Vader, Mainly because Kain doesn't shout NOOOO!
bobo577 4 years ago 2
Tell me about it. That is one of the best pieces of dialog in the games. Or at least the most memorable.
Rakthen 4 years ago 2
I nearly crapped my pants the first time I saw this scene. I can't help but get goosebumps when Kain talk about the coin landing on its edge.
Atreus21 4 years ago 3
I agree that this is one of the best dialogues in the series. =3 The great thing about this series is that after you've played it a dozen times you're still learning.
sarge2006 4 years ago 3
Truly, Sarge! Every time i playing again and watching theese videos, i realising something new. Everytime!
DallasXIII 4 years ago 2
My God! Is it me or is this games has the scariest music !
maszlagma 4 years ago
One of my favorite parts of the series like what he says about the coin I think it's good advice for life as well.
Eddiewankenobi 4 years ago
konnichiwa! yo miz-eva-nite i fink u made a pal in joudas
yous! yous!
FemaleRazielFan 4 years ago
Now Now Joudas it's just a comment!
I love this scene, it's my favourite, it says everything about both Raziel and Kain, explains Kains true intentions, and the philosophy of storytelling is exquisite.
MissEverNight 4 years ago
There's a difference between 'a' comment and '57' comments, but I digress! Issue's been resolved, I think, and all's well.
This is one of my favorite dialogs also. :)
Joudas 4 years ago
Thankyou, you're very kind.
MissEverNight 4 years ago
That was the best dialogue I have ever seen in a game ever!
captainhairman 4 years ago
This series has to be made into a blockbuster summer movie, just has to, the story is deeper than any regular movie you can see these days.
DarkOmancer 4 years ago 2
I love this sceen, the creations criticizing the creators script.
anubus316 4 years ago
Best quote ever: Hate me, but do it honestly.
datehskyler 5 years ago 3
Amy Hennig, who's moved on to new projects, wrote SR1, SR2 and Defiance ... the trilogy of Raziel. She's a talented writer who should be writing screenplays.
djvillain 5 years ago
This series rocks for one major thing--its dialogue. I mean, wow. I've never heard such deep statements made in any other videogame or movie for that matter.
"you said so yourself, Kain...there are only two sides to the coin."
"Apparently so. But suppose you thorw a coin enough times...suppose one day, it lands on its edge."
Syphex 5 years ago 2
i couldnt agree more, soul reaver HAS one of the best dialogues ever, one can hardly find such well written dialoguge like this one
raptros 5 years ago 4
This is well written for any form of fiction, let alone video games ... most movies don't have dialogue this well written nor this well performed.
djvillain 5 years ago 3
Turning the music off makes it sound better heheh :) Thanks for uploading duden!
NakedSnake1989 5 years ago
I swear, this is one of the most fabulous sequences and dialogues in the history of video games.
I can't thank you enough for making and uploading this.
LauraOrganaSolo 5 years ago
He didn't "find" the Pillars,He always knew where they were since he was a sarafan ....and Moebius never gave him directions.
GoddessMillenia 5 years ago
Awsome! I love the Legacy of Kain scenes. I'm a fan of the entire series, and I think Soul Reaver 2 has the greatest dialogue of them all.
kevo388 5 years ago
THIS is great quality! You're awesome!
magnawiz 5 years ago