The Environmental Cost of China's Growth

[brokenscimitar]

No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons was rather inconvenienced.

[tmrbras]

I'd like to see the chinese opposition speaking.. and I know that this people exist.. but government always brings police to shut/shot them! The democracy is a hard expensive changing... and China will learn HOW!

[heartlessvietboy]

This is the reason why we need to clean up. We are polluting the earth.

[rogatto1]

The Europeans and the American have been polluting the world for the last century. When their nation was developing they clear most of their forest for farming and sewage was dumb straight into the sea. They polluted the world far more that China does now with it population more than all of them put together. Remember we took our factories production there. China is the world factory.You idiots....

[njdevil281]

@rogatto1 China is not the World factory you dumb fuck. The US is still the worlds largest manufacturer. China pollutes far more than the US on a per capita basis because it is poor and under developed. Comparing it to the west is retarded.

[rogatto1]

@njdevil281You are a mother fucker idiot .You have been hiding under a rock all these years or you just an arrogant dump retard. Your ass belongs to the Chinese, so you better start learning to suck those little Chinese cocks...

[nosnibor5255]

@njdevil281 check your stats-also look at how we produce at this time vs. China then call someone a dump retard-you make yourself look like the retard even though you may or may not have a point

[CHUUMPASS]

for the sake of our world , cut back using china as the manufacturer of cheap skill labor related items, shorten the ways of supply, that way you do two things at once, you minimize transportation related fuel consumption, plus china`s massively polluting low standart mass-labor factories will ultimately dry out. in terms of the u.s. the united states are better of focusing on south america and mexico as prodcution partners.

[MediaCryptix]

Every year 2,500,000 people die of car exhaust. And car exhaust is destroying the nature! We know how to stop it!

youtube.com/watch?v=sHw7XSz2OG­I

[joseisabeles]

Well, pretty good video. I think that's the price China and someone else has to pay, I mean the awesome growth is not for free and every single thing involves costs, sometimes high sometimes low, isn't it? But the thing is government has to do something about it in any way

[12valvepower1]

we will pollute our way to prosperity.

smoke is the new soviet breath.

[maomao667]

I also feel concerned about China's serious pollution problems.

But everyone should not forget that it is the west that starts polluting the earth first by pushing INDUSTRY REVOLUTION !!!

[CaffeinewithNicotine]

@maomao667 So you're saying that every other country has its right to pollute as the west started doing in the past. I think developing countries should learn from the environmental problems that occured from the methods of the west , and participate in the investment in sustainable and clean energy even though their developing rates and hence the demand in energy of their countries are very high

[maomao667]

@CaffeinewithNicotine

When did I say every other country has its right to pollute

as much as they want ? I am also concerned about China's

environment problems. But the west is always unwilling to suply

China technology for environment protection and they have never stoped

criticising China ! Don't forget US also has a bad record of environment pollution.

[12valvepower1]

@maomao667 teh religion of the state is me

[pronatalist]

@maomao667

Actually, countries do have some right to pollute. As pollution isn't easily solved with application of new technology, some of which may not have quite been invented yet. People do have a right to better themselves and their families, which does include then, more car exhaust pipes, and smokestacks, or chimneys of sometimes cleaner-burning natural gas home furnaces

While we may have to share an increasingly "crowded" planet, countries aren't obligated to "control" growing wildfires

[libbern]

@maomao667

To be more specific, the brits...

[S1587915G]

It was largely because of what the West (especially the bloody Brits) did to China in the 19th Century that China is now so determined in her pursuit of industrial 'development', come Hell or high water. Either you 'progress', or you're going to be easy for those who have 'progressed' to bully. Had it not been for the West, China would have continued happily along her original path of dynastic rise and fall. So ultimately, who's the true culprit?

[hablerz]

@S1587915G I find it highly unlikely that China would want to stay in a state of perpertual surfdom. Industrialisation was always going to happen , its the natural order of things.

[S1587915G]

@hablerz

I'm not saying that China's premodern system was without problems. Yes, it had problems. But on the other hand I'm not convinced that industrialization is the only way to solve them. There's got to be another way that's more environment-friendly. And I certainly don't think it's right for anyone from outside to force any solution on China for any reason however noble -- and just how noble-minded the West really was in the 19th Century in dealing with China, we all can guess.

[pronatalist]

@S1587915G

China is already way too dense with people, to go down every silly little "environment-friendly" route. There's ways for them to industrialize, develop, and modernize, no doubt, but I agree with China building a lot more housing, and their building of another coal-fired power plant or 3, per week.

It may take China some time to reduce pollution in some areas, as they have many pressing needs and so many people needing lots of stuff.

But there's ample room for continued BIG families

[QuitePossiblyANinja]

i but they'd care more if they only had 300 million people, because each person would be 4X more important

[S1587915G]

@QuitePossiblyANinja

Blame that a**hole named MAO. He actually encouraged everyone to have MORE babies. The Chancellor of Beijing University during Mao's time, Ma Yinchu, tried to warn Mao of the serious consequences of having too many mouths to feed. Guess what -- Mao threw him in jail. Typical.

[pronatalist]

@S1587915G

Actually, that's one of the few things that commie chairman Mao did right, that of encouraging large families, because a large growing population would make China strong. Maybe, maybe not. But at least it would allow far more people to experience life. Liberals and evil people once in a while get something right, much like how a broken clock displays the correct time, twice a day.

But population growth isn't a light switch to turn on and off. Once growing, population keeps growing!

[maomao667]

@pronatalist

China needs tight contral of its population. One Child policy is indespensible in the next two decades in China. I think what China needs is more girls not boys.

[pronatalist]

@maomao667

Communists tend to not care about environment so much, because they are already in trouble with the people for destroying prosperity so much via centralized planning

No, there's no right to "control" pop, but the individual right to life and to reproduce. What's a few more children to a country of over a billion? Everything to the family yearning for more children

Male/female imbalance is caused by 1-child, showing its folly. Repair by having natural flow babies both boys and girls

[pronatalist]

@maomao667

What I meant by Once growing, pop keeps growing, pop is not some light switch you can turn on and off, isn't 1-child disrespecting commie chairman Mao? If that's what communist Chinese "leaders" meant to do, then why don't they be honest and tear down any Mao posters or statues, and dare say Mao was wrong? I mean you can't have it both ways? But then saying their former leader was wrong, suggests they could be wrong now.

Now those so many children grew up, want babies of their own!

[pronatalist]

@maomao667

Because families were large in the past, the numbers of women of childbearing age grew naturally, and now China has even more birth canals from which babies can enter the world. I would estimate China could have as many as 350 or 450 million women of childbearing age. So what do they need? Not condoms, but lots of babies! If babies were good in the past, then why not still now? Even China, at around double world population density average, can hold or be made to hold lots more people

[maomao667]

@pronatalist

If you go to China, you can see over 80% Chinese people hope the population could go down. Because they all believe overpopulation is the reason why they are facing serious social competetion, and social inequality. This has nothing to do with democracy or a police state system. You can see the beggest democracy India is also suffering from overpopulation.

[pronatalist]

@maomao667

But of course you know, the Chinese pop can't reasonably go down. Most everybody expects to go on living, and people are still having children. Human pop growth is largely intractable, all the more reason to encourage the growth, due to expectation of "return on investment" of energy expended raising children. Parents want to see their children grow up, and be able to have children (grandchildren) of their own.

Overpop is not the problem, but rather was made scapegoat for bad gov.

[maomao667]

@pronatalist

I don't think Chinese government is fully bad. Every coin has two sides.

[pronatalist]

@maomao667

The Chinese seemed happy enjoying having their big families, until the government whim claimed it's not a good idea? Didn't pop grow fast, under commie chairman Mao, when large families were encouraged, as a large and growing pop would supposedly make China strong? Then foolish gov suddenly decides it's no longer good idea to let babies push out as they come?

Of course there's a cost to "unlimited" births, that is minor growing pains. But growing pains often soon fade. It's worth it

[pronatalist]

@maomao667

I debated on some forum, with some guy who said he was Chinese. He seemed to think we want China to not crowd the world so much. But I welcome China to grow very huge pop, don't believe the gov propaganda, that I don't agree with imposing any limit upon Chinese childbearing.

I've met many people who don't believe in using birth control. A guy at a Walk For Life, said they have 4 children and don't use any birth control. A mother remarked about having babies still, plus her teenagers

[pronatalist]

@maomao667

Maybe Chinese think that lie, who live in the big city, and get the government monopoly propaganda education. But what of the people in the countryside, having 5 children or more, as I read somewhere? Human birthrates aren't easily "controlled," and in the spacious countryside, it's even easier to see where we could put far more people. And besides, as the saying goes, farmers need farmhands (children)

Crowding is caused by poverty, not by huge numbers. With wealth,people spread out

[maomao667]

@pronatalist

What make it worse is that they don't even have any birth contral policy, and their population will surpass China in a few years. It will be a horrible thing that over 1.4 billion people live in a land which is smaller than China. Chinese government may be oppressive, but its one child policy is very necessary. Plus China is no longer a communist country, though it is still ruled by cummunist party.

[pronatalist]

@maomao667

But didn't some evil politicians try to pass some pop "control," and India people didn't like it and wouldn't stand for it? Governments can't do everything for people anyway.

I agree with India to multiply people naturally without any birth control. Let population soar wildly, as more and more people would be glad to live. Humans are highly ADAPTABLE, and already they are adapting to populate denser. India overtakes China in 2020-something.

Well Obama does put us to shame, to China

[pronatalist]

@maomao667

Uh, make that TRIPLE world pop density average, for China. Anyway, a large youthful population tends to go right on growing, high pop momentum harder to slow, with so many young people coming, rushing into childbearing age

And how is it fair that their parents got to have unlimited children, but they aren't allowed?

Parents have a duty to provide for their sometimes many children. How can parents do their duty to provide, when fined by some evil gov. for having "too many" children?

[S1587915G]

@pronatalist

***a large growing population would make China strong.***

A (largely) well-fed and literate, or (largely) underfed and illiterate population?

***at least it would allow far more people to experience life.***

Even if the experiences are of a negative nature, as in starvation, lack of resources, etc?

You want more kids, no problem. Just make sure there are going to be enough resources for them to live when they grow up. Either that, or one is just plain irresponsible.

[pronatalist]

@S1587915G

A well-fed and literate pop, or not? Uh, I presume commie chairman Mao was going to get around to addressing those other issues later? Like I said, Maybe, maybe not. That's not so much the issue for me, as expanding human life is more important anyhow

Why do you assume the negative experience of life? You don't know that, before the babies are even conceived. I don't buy that Malthusian gloom-and-doom nonsense. Defeatism is pointless. Aim for success

What? Am I God? We'll see if so

[S1587915G]

@pronatalist

When you have too many mouths to feed and not enough food to go around, can the experiences of the majority be anything but negative, I ask you?

There is a definite limit to the Earth's natural resources. To believe there isn't is just plain folly. This isn't defeatism, it's simple fact. Please check out the video here on YouTube titled 'The Most Important Video You'll Ever See'.

[pronatalist]

@S1587915G

Well maybe we wouldn't have "too many" mouths to feed, if we didn't have to feed you? How is it that a book has an aptly named title about this, Just Enough of Me, Way Too Much of You. See? Isn't it really just rebellious unbelief and selfishness? Ever notice how the smug people seemingly most worried about imagined overpopulation, are those who are well fed, in their air-conditioned towers of academia? How dare we consider those propagandists, experts?

Can't you plant a garden?

[S1587915G]

@pronatalist

I'll assume you've watched the vid I recommended.

The issue of exponential growth in a world of finite resources is a matter of simple arithmetic. You can be an academic or clerk or politician, it doesn't matter. You can't argue with the arithmetic.

It's easy for someone like you to speak of having another trillion babies because the responsibility of feeding them is not placed in YOUR hands. If it were, THEN we'd see just how supportive of having more babies you are.

[pronatalist]

@S1587915G

Yeah, I watched it some time ago

Yes, I agree with the exponential growth of humanity, and I know all about the math of it. The billions perhaps come faster and faster, as the numbers of women of childbearing age goes right on rising due to past growth. But the natural acceleration is scarcely noticeable within the time frame we live. Exponential growth was God's idea, as distant descendants of Adam and Eve, all inherited fertility

I have already purposed to welcome all my babies.

[S1587915G]

@pronatalist

Hope you don't mind if I put it frankly, but I honestly think it's because of folks like you that we have such things as 'militant atheists'.

[pronatalist]

@S1587915G

Don't blame militant atheists upon me. Such people would be angry regardless, because that's the way they are. Being in rebellion against God, they can always find some follower of The Way to mock or criticize.

They don't like it, because we toss a monkey wrench into their New World Order depopulation schemes, and get the commoners questioning why such wicked people should be allowed to take over and mess everything up. R they jealous?

"Truth is hate speech to those who hate truth"

[TheSeveren]

@pronatalist Militant atheists eh? are you aware that more then half of all wars were caused by some kind of religous misunderstanding? or should i say understanding because its all about power, the religon is a convenient excuse. it gives common people hope and powerful people power

[TheSeveren]

@TheSeveren i just read more of the argument, and what i said has nothing to do with it, i actually agree with how you believe we should stop multiplying

[S1587915G]

@pronatalist

Go ahead, pray to your God to work a super-miracle whereby an infinite supply of natural resources will materialise and we can feed as many mouths as we like.

Good luck getting your prayer answered. I await your good news.

[pronatalist]

@S1587915G

So either we curb our natural rate of reproduction, or we shall have to populate the world more densely? Wait! Isn't that backwards? By populating denser, we don't have to use any birth control? Really? Denser, at least somewhat denser, can't be all that bad then.

Have you no concept of freedom, or wildness of nature? Of individual rights and self-determination? If people someday have to densely urbanize to make room for all their progeny, who's to say they don't have that right?

[pronatalist]

@S1587915G

Now why should I have to have a trillion babies? Don't be ridiculous. That's not how God designed it. I simply have my 7 or 10 children, then they each can have their 5 or 12 children, and so on. See how beautiful exponential growth can be? Humans can grow to huge numbers eventually, without all the work being piled upon a few parents. As the numbers of parents yearning for babies naturally grows, babies can come into the world faster, faster.

Trillions would be great, if it happens

[pronatalist]

@S1587915G

I've seen that video. But I'm on slow, slow dial-up internet connection, so please don't expect me to watch it again, when I am already slow-loading another video.

Isn't that the video that tries to be shocking, saying something profound about how much biomatter is naturally turning into human flesh, supposed crowding out the diversity of the planet, or whatever nonsense?

And me being a HUMAN, I should have a problem with the apparently great success of the growing human race WHY?

[S1587915G]

@pronatalist

Get a faster connection and watch that vid carefully from beginning to end.

Well, I think you should anyway.

[pronatalist]

@S1587915G

Eventually I probably will have to upgrade my internet connection. But you know how these fancy technology gadgets are. Add in an upgrade, something goes wrong, then no internet at all. I was thinking to buy a newer Macintosh at the same time, but am in no rush to go spend money. So when the time is right?

You think I am impressed with what those educated-beyond-their-intellig­ence "ex-spurts" have to say? I listen to refute them and in search of talking points. And for amusement.

[pronatalist]

@S1587915G

We don't limit how much people can breathe. We don't limit their trips to the toilet. We don't limit people's food rations. So why should we limit something so vital to life and human survival, as the natural baby emissions from our bodies? Humans were not designed to use any means of birth control. Huge numbers don't practice birth control. For very good reasons. It's contrary-to-nature, has side effects, aims to prevent human life of very real future people

Let us multiply freely!

[S1587915G]

@pronatalist

Duhhhh, I suppose I can say on the basis of your logic that humans were not designed to follow laws and curb their animal instincts either, so let us kill and pillage freely as we please. Sure, right.

[pronatalist]

@S1587915G

Where did I say humans should follow base animal instincts? No, because we like multiplying so much, is more reason to be PATIENT in traffic congestion, to hold doors open for the many strangers out there coming through them, to use turn signals and trash cans, out of proper consideration of the many, many people now inhabiting the earth, all created in God's image.

But I don't expect parents in swarming shantytowns to clench their legs, but to let their many babies push out freely!

[pronatalist]

@S1587915G

Why not give human life a chance? Rather than insure failure by denying people their most basic and primal of rights, the right to Life, which includes the right to procreate children.

If we are to oppose injustice of Chinese 1-child tyranny, we must accept that China needs to grow DENSER, as 100s of milions of parents may still perfer to have their traditionally very large families. Let China grow to 2 or 3B or whatever. Would we Americans also allow big families at 1B? Of course!

[S1587915G]

@pronatalist

If there were an INFINITE store of resources for us all -- oil, energy, food, land etc -- then sure, let's all breed like rabbits, no problem. But there ISN'T.

Here's a pie large enough for 10 people to eat to their full. Do we limit ourselves to 2 or 3 people so the pie can last them several meals? Or do we have several hundred people so each person only gets half a bite?

Go figure.

[pronatalist]

@S1587915G

Oops! I meant CHAPTER about this, Just Enough of Me, Way Too Much of You.

God hasn't given us infinite store, but ENOUGH resources for all the people there will be. But according to the curse for orginal sin, it now requires WORK.

The solution is so obvious, why do you refuse to see? Bake more pies. Duh? That's what my sister does. To feed everybody she makes 4 pies at a time, which isn't much harder to do than 1.

BTW, some of us are already breeding like rabbits. We love our kids

[pronatalist]

@S1587915G

By The Way (BTW), what makes you think you are entitled to more than a taste of a pie you didn't help bake anyway?

What population phobics don't like to admit, is that people ARE finding and producing more and more resources, and so maybe we ought to be honest and just admit to the racist prejudices, selfish motives, and that maybe it isn't really about the resources so much after all, but that we just don't want to share a world steadily growing a smidgen more crowded each year?

[pronatalist]

@QuitePossiblyANinja

And why would politicians care about us, or them, if there was but only 300 million Chinese? They're evil communists. Look how little our politician in the U.S. care about us, purposely trying to bankrupt the country to buy off votes of stupid DemocRATS. And we have only 310 million people.

We humans get our value imputed to us from God, and we value ourselves. Therefore, the value of the individual can never be subject to "supply and demand," but is sacred immense value.

[illuminaz1]

all are talking about china but its the USA thats the biggest polluter today

[aiden007700]

lol are u serius? lol bayging just 1 city in china dose as much damage to the envierment like all the card in the eastern cost im german and i tell u now china is way worse. they edmit 7-12 times more then the usa and all of europ dosent come close to china polition

[jaymorpheus01]

@illuminaz1 Per capita dubai's surpassing that.

[youlosez]

no it isn't. China is far worse...

[nuggert]

China didnt invent the industrial revolution...

its just following other countries man, Why didnt USA not develop their country when it had the chance? Who the fuck cares about the enviroment when your life is about to become better? hah, chinese people in china don't give a shit about the enviroment. Their living standards are so bad, that any economic boost overweighs the harm of "bad" air

[blueiceflames]

The USA goverment law System sucks. Big corporation control them. I hate how the ideal of government lobbyist. They dont care about the people. They are just there to make big money. Only if the ideal of environment friendly give good profit....

[MsPureMagic]

This just proves how insane the Chinese are!! They are murdering the environment, themselves, and us!!

[TheCaptainLulz]

um....they wouldn't make it if we didnt buy it.

[MsPureMagic]

@TheCaptainLulz And thats an excuse is it? China is too hungry for growth, power and money, it blinds them to the damage they are causing to the environment, people and animals. They could not give a toss, They take what is not theres to take, and they dont care what they kill, or corrupt in the process! They think they are a law on to themselves. THere is no excuse to what they are doing.

[TheCaptainLulz]

unfortunately your right about how they think. and no one can stop them either. they hold enough US debt that they could sink the world into a severe depression at a whim. Theres only 2 ways they can change. 1- the top party officials and the army get violent on corruption, or 2- so many people start dying in china that the government is overthrown.

[stargazeriii]

@MsPureMagicare u talking about the US right?? hahaha.... cause it makes more sense saying those things about US than China... i bet you don´t have the slightest idea of how China and chinese people live and think... u are just a big mouthed somebody

[hablerz]

@MsPureMagic Isnt the problem that the West buys all their crap ? Industry causes pollution no matter what country its based in. China is only doing what the west had been doing for the previous 200 years.

[stopjunkscience]

China's growth is because of the rest of the world. China has supplied cheap goods to all of us for decades. World corporations have made a fortune out of their carefully nurtured slave rats. Now they want to make a further fortune clearing up the mess they have made. Oh well...such is life!

[artivistnetwork]

This is something that needs and deserves continual highlighting. Thank you for spreading the word.

[mrmaciejm]

When i said something about pollution in China to Chinese students, some of them got really angry. "We hate that west is telling us what to do!"

OK keep doing what you are doing.

[jeraldmcginnis]

Nice work. keep it up. mean time come for social media marketing for esteembpo**com DGH

[ChuckManiac]

The US, China and India should work together and decrease the amount of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and influence the rest of the world to follow by using environmentally concious technology, resources and energy.

[DSmiley154]

Is this guy kidding me? Does he actually believe the CCP cares about the environment? He needs to check out other videos about China...

[fatbastardisback]

ofcourse they care, if they fail in their policies they are all gone, so it is in their own interest to care about china, the problem is more complex

[david820918]

it is really excisted,but not all.