College is totally the next bubble. It used to be, in this country, that people with great innovations like Bill Gates jumped out of college to start companies. Bill is just the most famous example but we had hundreds every year. Somewhere somehow we lost that. I think Peter Thiel did the right thing when he offered smart college students money for jumping out of college and starting a company.
This is why Islam forbids intrest. Intrest is just a scheme for the rich to get richer and it screws over the little guy. College is so expensive because the college jacks up its cost knowing that people can easily get a loans. Its amazing how a man 1400 years ago in Arabia could see this comming.
@jihadifanclub I say blame the needless expansion & renovations of college campus'.
At my college, there were around 6 instructors who were cut while every "elevated" classroom in only one building that had numerous classroom student desks (chair + table) were replaced w/ purple plush, bolted student desks... (I know, just a correlation right?)
The education system imo doesn't need to make cuts toward educators, it instead should cut (i.e. restrict) what colleges can put that money towards.
All of this talk about needing more science majors is a load of a bullshit. As someone who majored in microbiology, I can tell you you'll be standing in the unemployment line or working as a bench tech for peanuts and a slave to grant money. If you go onto graduate school, you'll end up doing thankless post-doc work and then work long hours for the rest of your life and hope to keep your grant money...or get the boot
I chose to go into healthcare instead of science. Better pay and more jobs.
Anyone feel like the Internet will take over schools and colleges by the next generation or 2? We have such a HUGE access to information these days that it almost seems pointless to spend 8 hours a day 5 days a week 9 months a year inside a building learning stuff you won't need. I'm just theorizing, of course, but hey anything's possible.
Except for niggers, they get scholarships even when they fail SATS because the jews who control higher communist indoctrination agree with niggers that "da white maa got's ta pay fuh ouw problums bitch" .
@RMac777 Depends, did you earn it or are you just a nigger who was merely admitted by the communist jews who control the institution you are being brainwashed at to prevent one less white person from getting the space so they can peddle the myth of nigger equality.
Shut up, Thomas Friedman. I hate him so much. Most college graduates are getting minimum wage jobs, if any at all. And it's more like 15% real unemployment. A GI Bill? No how about student loan forgiveness??
@RocketeerAndRoll Student loan forgiveness is letting students escape the consequences of juicing up your money supply. So many industries depend on that cheap supply of money (landlords, fast food restaurants, bookstores) if you took that away by forgiving those loans, the house of cards would collapse. Why do people in college think free money is economically viable?
@RocketeerAndRoll You understand nothing. If people aren't looking for a job, you can't truly list them as unemployed because they're not seeking employment.
Student loan forgiveness? Wealth is a zero sum game, meaning that for every dollar you gain, someone else loses one. Therefore, you can't forgive debt, you can only put the burden on someone else.
So I repeat my previous statement where I said, "You understand nothing."
Colleges need drastic reforms! Join a movement to expose the problems with today's colleges. Let's start a movement to change things! Type Reform Higher Education Now in the search box on Facebook or click CollegeReform below and vote this comment up.
Engineering and science degrees are NOT golden tickets to employment. A lot of science degree holders are unemployed or woefully underemployed. Also, veterans have a higher unemployment rate than the general population. Bottom line, no veteran with a STEM degree should EVER have difficulty finding a job.
Not to say that she is wrong, but what Maddow was saying is not the case. Many Iraq/ Afghan vets are now unemployed and no one wants to hire them dispite the training and leadership and organisational skills they have. I could be wrong but thats the common consensus i am seeing in the media these days.
The problem IS NOT that more Americans aren't choosing engineering and other math/science based careers. The problem is that EVERY SINGLE MAJOR PROGRAM in the American educational system requires HIGH LEVELS of math related prerequisites just to qualify. Regardless of the fact that 90% of them will lead to a career that requires little to no math related skills or experience whatsoever. It's the biggest lie in all of education. We call it: General Education.
@twiztidsnooky so true u only need high math like calc and trig if it applies to your job its bs that everyone has to take it and 90% NEVER use it i agree 100% college needs to change fast computers do most of the work so it should be easier not force people to take things we will never need its all about greed and lies
Well maybe if we didn't have BS degrees such as media studies or sports science and if people didn't go to university just so they can get a degree then the statistics would be different. Not to mention that some universities are below par. Sure getting in such universities is easy, you study some BS degree with BS exams which anyone can pass and then you wonder why no one wants to hire you. Well cause there are 50 million other people like you - people who are not very cleaver & have no skills
Employers have a long history of "Pushing the education button" when called out on why they won't hire American workers that stretches back into the 80s and 90s, (See H1A-H1B visa) particularly in the technical sector. The post graduate horror stories from that era alone heavily discourage a lot of people from putting in the extra steps often required for tech degrees.Also, Americans are entirely too fixated on this idea that a University=trade school these days. Ain't the way it works.
You know, I absolutely love Maher. I really do, but his whole take on college is fucking ridiculous. Here's a guy who majored in English and worked the stand-up comedy circuit in California immediately after before making it big, and he's so quick to judge today's arts and humanities majors for "not learning anything." What did you learn, Bill? Where's your engineering degree? Oh that's right. You're an exception. You get paid an obscene salary just to BS on cable TV for an hour each week. Ass.
@billbenblue I've found examples of guys from the post WW2 era who walked into high ranking jobs in National Defense with educational backgrounds in fine arts. Poetry. Music. Etc. A well rounded and well educated individual can ideally master what he or she puts his or her mind to. We've lost faith in that system as a society.
@deadpool03mm I know, and that's pretty goddamn tragic. It's a pity know-it-alls like Maher here can't appreciate that. It's also hypocritical, considering he has a background in arts and entertainment.
@billbenblue You think HE gets paid so much to do so little, you should check out the stats on congress people and professional athletes. It's not fair, you're right. However, entrepreneurship can be a well paying avenue. Mark Zuckerburg doesn't have a degree either. He just plays on the computer and *poof* he's a billionaire. It may not be the way things should be, but for now it's the way things are.
@tedirelan Oh, I believe it. It's ridiculous. And that's the whole point: what right does someone like Maher--or ANYONE like Maher, such as the people you pointed out--have to complain that today's college kids aren't "learning" anything because they're not majoring in math or engineering? Especially when Maher's one of those people with a "useless" degree that he's making fun of. I agree with you completely about entrepreneurship: success is not predicated solely on you're degree.
The stats Bill cites need to be explained better. People with degrees find work... we have a shortage of engineers... more people get psych degrees than engineering degrees... so what? Are the graduates who find work all engineers? I kind of doubt it. Employers will choose somebody with a degree in ANYTHING over somebody without (because they have useful "soft skills"). And schools know that, and crank up the tuition. Until the system breaks.
@JAROSLAVAGINA Or vice versa. Point taken! But my main argument is that you don't need a psych degree to become middle management, or a researcher, or a "smart gopher". But employers will take the candidate with the degree over the candidate without. Because, who wouldn't?
@biglinguist many wouldn't, but i think this is a bad way of thinking. for instance, lets say you have two equally intelligent individuals one goes to become a college graduate, while the other goes to work as a machinist for a company right after graduating high school. by the time the college student graduate, the hs grad has 4 years of experience, not just in technical operation of machine tools, but also manufacturing systems exposure. Now lets say a mid level management position opens up.
@JAROSLAVAGINA Yes, I think that's how things used to work, and I like it because it puts the expense and trouble of training on the employer, instead of the schools, the state, and the employee. But where I live, most employers just won't hire the high school grad, because they can get a university grad who's already been finished at somebody else's expense. Even for jobs that don't need a degree.
@biglinguist and i think student loans are a large cause of that. before their implementation a college degree was not needed for entry level work. since then, we've seen a bubble form almost exactly like the housing bubble: everybody's got degrees. i really think that student loans should be either halved or done away with completely. by doing so, students will be forced to look at college from an investment standpoint and colleges will begin cutting useless expenses (continued)
@biglinguist (continued) like multi-million dollar inter mural exercise facilities. today student loans have created (to a degree) a third party payer system. as a result students don't care about the price (or at least up to this point), and have been more interested in luxurious amenities such as mansion style dorms and apartments or other features which are secondary to the value of their potential education at the college they choose.
@JAROSLAVAGINA I don't mind a third party payer system if it's regulated... in places where the third party is the government, directly (i.e., subsidies to tuition), you don't seem to have the same luxurious amenities. Or maybe I just hang around the wrong universities!
@biglinguist third party payer systems in 99% of all cases result in costs which outpace inflation. Another example of such a system would be the health care industry. the wide spread use of health insurance has resulted in costs increasing to a point that paying out of pocket is impossible: the same point where college tuition is heading now. Examples of direct tuition subsidies would be grants such as Pale grants. Therefore the system you described still allows for excesses.
@JAROSLAVAGINA I have no problem with excesses in the system, if it means that many people who couldn't otherwise afford something (university, healthcare) get it. Perhaps the excesses are greater when for-profit providers know that buyers have access to third party money? I guess that's why I prefer a system where the government directly subsidizes universities (and healthcare), thus keeping direct costs to users low. That system is what got me from poverty to graduation.
@biglinguist The problem arises when we look to the source of the third party money. In the case of health care it wouldn't make much difference if the fed payed for it, or if insurance companies paid for it, with the exception that insurance companies would be more responsive to customer demands than the federal government which is traditionally slow to rouse. (if you don't believe me, look at congressional approval polls). The problem with excess is that its excessive cost. continued...
@biglinguist (continued...) for-profit providers are (under most conditions) more likely to keep excesses minimized as it increases their competitiveness, except in situations where that excess (as mentioned earlier regarding colleges) is a market qualifier. So lets assume we "nationalized" the cost of higher education, even further, to the point that higher education becomes a true third party payer system. As a result the cost of college would increase dramatically, or (continued again...)
@biglinguist (continued again...) it's access would be rationed. In one situation we have people who never went to college paying for your college, and in the other we have people who weren't allowed to go to college paying for your college.
God loves you, and whoever believes that Jesus Christ the Son of God died for their sins, was buried and rose again will have eternal life in Heaven. “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved,” - Acts 16:31
The elephant in the room is the widely-recognized liberal nature of the dogma permeating through almost 100% of the same American colleges that Bill Maher, the liberal, claims are failing this country and its graduates. Awkward.
@BrotherAtticus I'm not really sure what having liberal political leanings has to do with pursing something in the liberal arts. I assure you there are conservatives you take up English, too. What I do find a little annoying and preachy, though, is that we're hearing this from a comedian. Obviously, he wasn't compelled to study science. Anyway, I tend to agree with @alphacause. In college, you're kind of limited by the quality of your prior educational experience, not just by what interests you.
@awhitegmail I didn't criticize the liberal arts. I enjoy the liberal arts. I'm saying that American higher education in general has a notorious, politically liberal-leaning bias, which would be fair enough if colleges (NOT just liberal arts) were producing good news for this country, but they are not. That's all.
These are the very idiots that are CAUSING the problem!
The "college bubble" is caused by the same policies that caused the housing bubble: GOVERNMENT MEDDLING.
By taking over the student loan industry, the government has effectively destroyed all market forces which would otherwise keep education affordable (like it did in the past). By making credit artificially easy (EXACTLY like they did with housing) they will keep driving prices up until the whole system crashes.
@UncleIrv guessed you missed the part where they said college tuition has gone up 600% since 1980. Obama was not president then. I know history is a bad subject for republicunts, so I'll give you some help. 1980-1988 Regan. 1988-1992- Bush Sr. 1992-2000 Clinton. 2000-2008 Bush Jr. Obama 2008 - present. That's 20 years of Republican leadership, and only 11 years of liberal leadership. So fuck you.
You are a stupid fuck, aren't you? Do you think the PRESIDENCY has sole control of all aspects of life, including the established bureaucracy?
It doesn't matter one fuck WHO THE PRESIDENT WAS from 1980 to present--nor did I even make that argument!
The GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRACY has gradually taken over all student loans. This began long before Obama, but was COMPLETED by him. And this is the cause of astronomical college tuitions that have no connection with reality.
@UncleIrv by the way, if it were not for "government meddling" we would have no economy. The bank bailouts were authorized by Republicans, and for good reason. If the government had not intervened, the free market would have destroyed the entire economy. So fuck the free market and fuck you. If government were run by people like you, we would all be starving to death right now. Another fun fact: the banks grabbed as many sub prime mortgages as they could ON THEIR OWN. THEY fucked it up.
Bullshit. Besides being an outrageous example of corporatist cronyism, the bank bailouts did nothing but put us deeper in debt. If the banks would have been allowed to fail, the assets would have found their true value, and the economy would have undergone a correction. All would be fine by now.
Besides, it is ignorant fans of statist cronyism like you who ENABLED the precise corruption that CAUSED the crash in the first place!
@UncleIrv I have a PhD. Do you? The banks are so vastly interconnected to every other buisness out there that if any one of the banks would have failed, it would have dragged down ALL other banks, as well as most of wall street. Hell, when the $700 billion bailout package was REJECTED the first time around by the house on september 29, 2008 the stock market dropped almost 800 points and 1.2 trillion dollars was lost, DUMBASS. Everyone knew that without the bailout we were doomed.
@UncleIrv go watch a documentary called "frontline: inside the meltdown". It explains the reasons for the bailout so clearly that even a drooling retard like yourself can understand it. oh and i hope your family dies in a fire. XD
Ahhh, you are a mindless droid of the mass media. Yes, journalists all have a degree in economics. If they tell you to jump off a bridge you should of course do it.
You hope my family dies in a fire? Ahhh, you must also be one of those compassionate, caring, tolerant, liberals.
Nice job you and your friends have done of fucking up the entire economies of both the US and Europe through 80 years of your voodoo economics. Enjoy the Mad Max world you have created.
@UncleIrv The term "voodoo economics" was coined by Bush Sr. when he ran against Ronald Regan in the 1980 republican primary. He used to term to describe Regan's proposal for tax cuts, which he also described as "economic madness". After Regan was elected and the tax cuts were in place, the economy tanked and Regan had to raise taxes 4 times to avoid a depression. So its odd that you accuse a liberal of voodoo economics when it was coined by a conservative, describing a conservative.
(1) The term "voodoo economics" was coined by a NEO-conservative--not a conservative.
(2) Who the fuck cares who COINED it?
(3) You are a liar. The U.S. economy THRIVED after Reagan's tax cuts. By the 1984 election the second longest peacetime economic expansion in U.S. history had begun.
(4) Reagan's tax increases were not "to avoid a depression" you idiot. The DEMOCRAT CONGRESS pushed them in exchange for spending cuts--which they NEVER DELIVERED.
@UncleIrv 1) i dont care what you fuckers call yourselves. If you are right of center you are a republicunt to me. 2) It was to show that have no idea what the terms you use mean, ie. you are a bullshitter. 3) More bullshit. If the economy THRIVED after Reagan's tax cut, why didn't the economy THRIVE after Bush's RECORD tax cuts for the wealthy? You will notice Obama has kept the tax cuts in place as well. 4) Thus Reagan failed to lead.
@UncleIrv I often wonder why republicunts hate schools and always want to cut spending to education. First, educated people with a future won't join the military. Second, republicunts want to sacrifice children to satan, and if they are not in school they will become easier to abduct. Google it. Its a fact. Glenn Beck actually killed a little girl once. google it.
If we can somehow create more middle class jobs all of these educational problems will get solved. The government needs to find a way to get more companies to create or keep the manufacturing jobs in the U.S. Universities are competing and driving tuition up becuase people now need to go in order to compete in the workforce. It's not an individuals fault for picking a bad degree. They are paying for it.
Are you a Democrat disappointed in Obama? Hate neocons?
Maher's right.
Help us do something about it.
Vote for Ron Paul in the GOP primaries, and kick the warmongering neocons out of the race.
Do you really want to run the risk of a Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum or Newt Gingrich for president? Another war? No more Neocons. Show them the majority of america is sick of them.
We welcome your help. Please consider it.
Search "Blue Republican" if you want to know the game plan. Interesting stuff.
It should be stated that the reason more Americans are not choosing engineering and other math/science based careers - jobs which there is a market for - is because they are not taught math and science very well in grades K - 12. Hence, they develop a disdain for the very subjects, which dissuades them from choosing the very majors that will allow them to obtain a good paying career.
@alphacause Not everyone can do calculus. It doesn't matter how many math books you leave around the house for toddlers to find. The mistake is thinking we need to get everyone a degree in science. Not everyone can be a doctor, a chemist, a physicist, a software engineer. And that should be alright. People should be able to make a life for themselves w/o having to fork over hundreds of thousands of dollars to a university to be a rocket scientist.
@ion010101 You're right. More venues to economic success should exist, besides college. There was a time when people, who went to trade schools, or just worked through the ranks of a business, could earn a comfortable living. Now even these professions require a 4 year degree or will soon. Though I am a college graduate, I think it is unfair. First, it excludes people who could do the job well, but don't have a degree. Second, the more people who get Bachelor's degrees, the less they are worth.
@alphacause and theres also the other group of over priviliged rich white progeny that dont want to be like ther parents and want to "express themselves", "be an individual", yada yada artistic hipperster crap etc
@alphacause I think it's more just because American culture caters towards glorification of musicians, actors, and politicians. We're raising a generation of children who all want to be rock stars and movie directors. It's alot more fun and easier to study film, art, and communications than it is to study engineering, math, and science.
@alphacause Don't be too sure about that. Many engineering jobs have been outsourced to cheaper foreigners, and those with engineering degrees have to either work in non-engineering jobs, or remain unemployed.
@papalolita (cont.) However, even with this outsourcing, there is still a greater number of high paying jobs, in this field, than for those in the liberal arts. That was my point.
What this panel is talking about here is called "academic inflation" or "degree inflation", and it is really happening. The college degree is worth less and less, not only because people chose majors in this country that do not match the science/math/business based job market, but because too many people are receiving a college degree to where it is no longer a major way to distinguish yourself. It is becoming as normal to have a Bachelors as it is a high school diploma.
Bill Maher is exactly right, everyone acts like they are entitled to a job as long as they go to college but that isn't realistic. If you get a degree in a field there isn't any jobs in and in one where everyone else is getting a degree in don't expect a job out of college.
Education starts with the individual. You can go to college but unless you want to learn you won't learn anything. A huge problem we have is that people pick an easy degree like business or history and become knowledgable but can't work. When you go to college you need to work jobs as well or get involved in activities, that is how you really learn and it is up the the individual to do that. I know a very knowledgable guy who never worked before, now he is having trouble finding a job.
@whyamimrpink78 I actually disagree.. In other cultures, you don't have a job while in college. I think the truth is, having a job is a bad idea while in college. We as Americans can't really dedicate ourselves to anything. College SHOULD be the students only job. It is hard to study 40 hours a week for an engineering degree while working 40 hours a week at dead ends ville.
That woman's neck is too wide and her ears are too big for her to look nice with such short hair. Nevertheless she makes a very valid point about how much intelligence is involved in being a soldier. Unlike students, who often don't attend class or do the readings, soldiers are required to use their intelligence.
Just cracks me up to hear American corporations say "they can't find qualified American workers". They just can't find ones willing to work for poverty wages. How are they supposed to repay their college loans AND support themselves while making far less than their parents did?
This so-called "global economy" is nothing but a race-to-the-bottom for labor - skilled and unskilled. I hope I live to see all corporate lobbyists lined up against a wall and shot for treason.
So Friedman doesn't want students to be debt slaves but he wants government to give a new type of G.I. Bill for students? Who pays for that? We do! So we get more debt and education continues to increase in price. Yeah, great solution, jackass.
I feel that college can help you, it's up to the individual am at a degree I know what do but many jobs want you to have a B.A.degree even if you know or have the skills. I learn best outside of school, that's a fact for me. Or take parts, because tests don't really help me.
Yeah, the Vet's of our generation are incredibly skilled in high tech skills and high performance demanding jobs, problem is except they come home and after a few months their PTSD kicks in and they end up doo-lally because they suffer from insomnia and if they sleep its terror dreams and if they stay awake its hallucinations, flashbacks, hypervigilance, depression, feelings of guilt and fall apart. They end up unable to work, either homeless, addicted, hurt and sidelined.
It's NOT in college you will learn to do a job, I'm 28 and had 3 jobs (good one's) and college did fuck all for me. It's your company that teaches you to do a job.
This is one reason i am scared to go to college. I currently work at UPS i am 20 years old and i dont know what to do? I want to get a degree in diesel mechanic to be a mechanic at UPS and wait my time to be a truck driver or Become a college graduate and possibly not be hired for some time and be in possible debt or like i say in the SHITHOLE
Currently the college debt owed is about 1 trillion dollars. So Thomas Friedmans solution is pass the cost on to the government(taxpayers). Give them the debt? For all the outrage at CEOs making obscenee bonuses, how about the obscene expeditures at colleges??? Presidents making a million dollars?? Pensions for Facilities workers? etc. How did college go up 600%. Talk about greed!!!
We need to get our kids solidified on math and science skills from a very early age and not move them onto the next concept until they as individuals fully understand the last one and can live in it. This system of, "do just enough to pass and move on with your class" is not good enough. Kids need to feel confident and unafraid of math in order to keep building on their skills so when they're college age, they feel they can go into an engineering degree program and be capable at it.
@Cjl99 So I must become an engineer? It's alright for me to be illiterate and incapable of understanding how to think analytically or understand how politics and social constructs operate and were formed? More power to those seeking positions in those fields. I am good at math, but I'm better at humanities. I sit in my college math courses and I can feel my soul crying, but it sings as I type my essay on the motivations of Rome in creating democracy, but I suppose that doesn't matter.
@laurenofg I hear you. I am going for my Master's if Arts in Humanities and I have gotten nothing but grief from everyone that I know. It is like the humanities have become a joke.
@laurenofg Not what I'm saying at all...I personally feel myself way more drawn to creative/political/investigative realms and believe everyone should cultivate those things they are instinctively drawn to. My point was every student should feel they have THE OPTION to go into math/science careers if they want because they feel confident in their skills. Same as I feel kids should start learning a second language in grade school.
I've been saying was Thomas Friedman says here for a couple years now. Our public education should cover up to a Bachelor degree now. In 1911 a high school diploma was adequate, not anymore.
If we give all the technical knowledge to just one computer/machine/robot..and use it to impart the knowledge then all professors, universities, colleges, books, presidents, chancellors become useless and redundant...that's just one huge bubble there! It seems they all just love their jobs/pay checks/bonuses/perks/privileges/goodies too much to let it go.
We have all these paranoid idiots out there decrying socialism when clearly the only way to ensure that future generations of Americans have access to 4 yr institutions is to socialize the system. There are industrialized nations in this world where a college education is free. Why not here?
@sammy2trees because we can't trust our Congress and Government to manage them for the benefit of the people. Maybe when our Government works I can trust socialism, till then fuck it. Leave me and my money alone.
school sucks,it dosent help learn what is important for you,it gives you a bunch of "facts"but no lesson to lern from them.and you cant learn whatever you want as long as you have the desire to do it,but people have no desire to do anthing because weare always told how to "learn"
I also protest any forgiving student debt. If they forgive their debts. I expect them to forgive my debts also. The students knew what they were getting into when they took out those loans. If they are smart enough to go to college, then they should be smart enough to be able to read the loan agreement and understand it before they signed it.
@HixsonLibra I don't think blaming the students will get you anywhere. You do realize that most companies will not even look at your resume if you don't have a college degree, right? The market, the employers, and the government have sold the idea that you need a degree -- it's a competitive world out there and they can hire people from overseas. Also, college is hella expensive in this country...so everyone is forced to make that investment. Nobody chooses to be in debt.
Boy, these elite neocons just don't get it. We need jobs that actually produce tangible, in hand type jobs. These " knowledge " jobs don't produce anything that anyone really needs. If I need a shovel to dig up a garden to grow my food. I can't buy a shovel made here. I have to buy it from China. We are so f-cked.
@HixsonLibra I went to college for art and design, when I was told to go into Graphic Design cause there were "many opportunities." I studied as hard as I could, going through my four year degree, and now I work in retail, barely able to pay bills. I live at home, been laid off and unemployed for 5 months at one point, and due to that, almost defaulted on my loans many times. But, what's out there now? Spec Work. A way for business people to get free art out of artists. It's horrible.
This is so true, student loan debt is a tremendous shackle. Turning this nations youth out into the world with $80,000 is student loans is a crime against humanity..
Friedman sticking up for the phony credentialism "economy" of his friends and family.
Except for sciences and engineering, post-secondary education is rubbish ...and a high-school diploma should be sufficient for most careers, with some on-the-job-training.
Farcical "Ivy -League" etc. pseudo-elites are an incompetent and increasingly disloyal phony "leadership" class ..who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a position of public trust and responsibility.
WOW. Is that Bill Maher actually realizing that government spending increases prices???? He knows what a bubble is now? He stopped blaming the free market for the housing bubble and mortgage meltdown? Look at that!
for a 4 year degree, get it in a major where there will actually be demand for people w/ that SPECIFIC major when you graduate. don't buy into the bullshit that the college industrial complex will tell you like, "a political science major has good critical thinking skills, and employers want that. poli-sci majors have gone on to become stock brokers, engineers, CEOS, etc." THEY SAY THAT SHIT ABOUT EVERY MAJOR! what they neglect to mention is that they got these jobs DESPITE of their major...
Tuition is so fucking high because the government federally ensures student loans given out by the banks. This means universities can charge whatever they see fit and banks will loan out whatever a student needs. This creates a moral hazard wherein banks don't care about getting paid back by the student so the government picks up the tab the university gets the money and the student is hit with bills with massive interest.
Jews created the housing bubble and Jews created the student loan bubble. Jews love to print money and lend it at variable interest rates to those they know will never be able to pay it back. The Jewish vampire bankers are ready and willing to keep a generation of Americans in a lifetime of debt.
the US is going to shit. i would encourage everyone to at least enter your local community college and work toward an AA using pale grants. im 3 quarters away from my AA and if the world isnt completely fucked by the time i get it im going to go into the army and use the GI bill to go to university later on.
please absorb as much as you can. get an education, we need that more than we need trade school skills at this point in america
The problem is not what people are majoring in, it's in what is being preached about what is "worthy" vs "unworthy" in regards to degrees. The fact is that with any discipline, too many people holding specialized degrees only guarantees their utter uselessness in the span of a couple of decades. Master's degrees don't even hold as much weight as they did 15 years ago. They become diluted which leads to the dilution of knowledge which dilutes instruction which eliminates true learning.
I love Bill Maher, but he's being too polite. It's obvious that a lot of college students shouldn't be in college - thank you liberal society for thinking college (aka debt slaves) is for EVERYBODY.
Nope. You should go to college if your future job requires it. Engineer, teachers, doctors, lawyers, etc. need to (and should) go to college. Otherwise.....either learn on the job or go to a trade school. Are people that dumb to not know this???
@theorangebp My bachelors program is for Computer Engineering since it's the only stable career. Please explain to me how Anthropology was a use to me as a Senior System Analyst other than a way for colleges to make an extra buck on.
@MrQuijadaj I did not say it was useful to you I said if you took that class and it was not useful to you then it is your fault. I am sure if you went to a halfway decent school they had many different class choices for you. Not to mention the fact that if you want a bachelors there are certain requirements if you didn't want to fulfill them then you should have gone to a trade school. No one made you do anything.
@theorangebp Did you drink the higher ed' kool-aid? A class can be useless for any number of reasons. The instruction may be bland? Outdated? Irrelevant? on and on.... To grad' on time you often have to take what's available since classes don't offer unlimited seats (although I rem' getting around this one). Many college req's equate to silly hoop-jumping to ensure that certain departments don't become extinct. What's trade school got to do with that? TS's have their own unique req's too.
@MrQuijadaj think of it as your philanthropic contribution? Hmm, how can Anthro' help a System Analyst? Builds critical thinking/writing communication skill? It might help you to have a more in depth understanding of organizations and hierarchy? Might provide inspiration as a creative catalyst? Might grow stronger neuron connections in your brain that as a System Analyst may be under utilized? Bet you didn't need a semester long class for any of it. So, your right - way for them to make $
What we need are the revitalizations of schools and skilled craftsmen instead of bullshit programs that puts students in bullshit classes that doesn't transfer to the real world. Ex. Anthropology is one class that I had to take that had no use to me.
@MrQuijadaj College is not just about training for the workforce it's about becoming an educated and well rounded individual. If you took a class that was not useful to you then that is your fault.
@theorangebp You are in denial! Take a look at most academic programs requiring 'useless' electives that many majors must take to graduate (subsidizes lib. arts dept's). Higher ed. markets college to millions of potential students as a vocational necessity (touting skewed stat's about earning potential). The idea that college is a necessary rite of passage was a great social engineering project since so many believe the marketing hype. You can become educated in the humanities w/o college.
@Fantageous You can become educated in the humanities without college, but to think that more than a few exceptions will ever grasp philosophy, political science, etc. without formal training is delusional. The reason people are starting to view these majors as useless is because people who do not belong in these fields in the first place are going out getting a B.A. and crying about how no employer will higher a B.A. of political science as an analyst.
Mr. Friedman, we are already debt slaves. Our nation pays taxes to the government which turns around and hands that cash over to the Federal Reserve Bank to pay interest on fake, worthless money.
@valtenge The point is intelligence is innate, it's as much a personality trait as aggressiveness or shyness, but it is NOT about following the path favored by the status quo, it's about making a decision based on the cards YOU have to play, in YOUR life and time, not in your parents life and time. The last remnants of the industrial age are disappearing, Post Secondary institutions are clinging to a thread, do you want to be in the building when it crumbles?
College is totally the next bubble. It used to be, in this country, that people with great innovations like Bill Gates jumped out of college to start companies. Bill is just the most famous example but we had hundreds every year. Somewhere somehow we lost that. I think Peter Thiel did the right thing when he offered smart college students money for jumping out of college and starting a company.
Dorkus89Malorkus 3 days ago
education is education. Education is not worth a job. Education is to learn! We need skills and people to learn.
pdv022 1 week ago
This is why Islam forbids intrest. Intrest is just a scheme for the rich to get richer and it screws over the little guy. College is so expensive because the college jacks up its cost knowing that people can easily get a loans. Its amazing how a man 1400 years ago in Arabia could see this comming.
jihadifanclub 1 week ago
@jihadifanclub I say blame the needless expansion & renovations of college campus'.
At my college, there were around 6 instructors who were cut while every "elevated" classroom in only one building that had numerous classroom student desks (chair + table) were replaced w/ purple plush, bolted student desks... (I know, just a correlation right?)
The education system imo doesn't need to make cuts toward educators, it instead should cut (i.e. restrict) what colleges can put that money towards.
Bmanritchie 1 week ago
@Bmanritchie I agree. Colleges invest in alot uless junk that really have nothing to do with learning.
jihadifanclub 6 days ago
Holy shit thats Rachel Maddow, Nevermind.
Andohish 1 week ago
All of this talk about needing more science majors is a load of a bullshit. As someone who majored in microbiology, I can tell you you'll be standing in the unemployment line or working as a bench tech for peanuts and a slave to grant money. If you go onto graduate school, you'll end up doing thankless post-doc work and then work long hours for the rest of your life and hope to keep your grant money...or get the boot
I chose to go into healthcare instead of science. Better pay and more jobs.
Arcane5871 1 week ago
Anyone feel like the Internet will take over schools and colleges by the next generation or 2? We have such a HUGE access to information these days that it almost seems pointless to spend 8 hours a day 5 days a week 9 months a year inside a building learning stuff you won't need. I'm just theorizing, of course, but hey anything's possible.
ThePhantom135 1 week ago
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MamzerGasserPanzer 1 week ago
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Except for niggers, they get scholarships even when they fail SATS because the jews who control higher communist indoctrination agree with niggers that "da white maa got's ta pay fuh ouw problums bitch" .
MamzerGasserPanzer 1 week ago
So should I feel better that I'm a physical science major on a scholarship?
RMac777 1 week ago
@RMac777 Depends, did you earn it or are you just a nigger who was merely admitted by the communist jews who control the institution you are being brainwashed at to prevent one less white person from getting the space so they can peddle the myth of nigger equality.
MamzerGasserPanzer 1 week ago
Shut up, Thomas Friedman. I hate him so much. Most college graduates are getting minimum wage jobs, if any at all. And it's more like 15% real unemployment. A GI Bill? No how about student loan forgiveness??
RocketeerAndRoll 2 weeks ago
@RocketeerAndRoll Student loan forgiveness is letting students escape the consequences of juicing up your money supply. So many industries depend on that cheap supply of money (landlords, fast food restaurants, bookstores) if you took that away by forgiving those loans, the house of cards would collapse. Why do people in college think free money is economically viable?
paulism1984 1 week ago
@RocketeerAndRoll You understand nothing. If people aren't looking for a job, you can't truly list them as unemployed because they're not seeking employment.
Student loan forgiveness? Wealth is a zero sum game, meaning that for every dollar you gain, someone else loses one. Therefore, you can't forgive debt, you can only put the burden on someone else.
So I repeat my previous statement where I said, "You understand nothing."
sodafromyoda 1 week ago
Why does Thomas Friedman get paid to give his opinion? Anyone could write the crap he's written in the last 20+ years.
202pdiddy 2 weeks ago
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CollegeReform 2 weeks ago
Engineering and science degrees are NOT golden tickets to employment. A lot of science degree holders are unemployed or woefully underemployed. Also, veterans have a higher unemployment rate than the general population. Bottom line, no veteran with a STEM degree should EVER have difficulty finding a job.
amperro 2 weeks ago 2
And this is exactly why the government should not subsidize education, ESPECIALLY college.
TheManiacalSatanist6 2 weeks ago
Not to say that she is wrong, but what Maddow was saying is not the case. Many Iraq/ Afghan vets are now unemployed and no one wants to hire them dispite the training and leadership and organisational skills they have. I could be wrong but thats the common consensus i am seeing in the media these days.
RollDeep1000 4 weeks ago
Your vid went viral on Belize
yronwyatt49b 1 month ago
The problem IS NOT that more Americans aren't choosing engineering and other math/science based careers. The problem is that EVERY SINGLE MAJOR PROGRAM in the American educational system requires HIGH LEVELS of math related prerequisites just to qualify. Regardless of the fact that 90% of them will lead to a career that requires little to no math related skills or experience whatsoever. It's the biggest lie in all of education. We call it: General Education.
twiztidsnooky 1 month ago
@twiztidsnooky so true u only need high math like calc and trig if it applies to your job its bs that everyone has to take it and 90% NEVER use it i agree 100% college needs to change fast computers do most of the work so it should be easier not force people to take things we will never need its all about greed and lies
fcfqb 1 week ago
Well maybe if we didn't have BS degrees such as media studies or sports science and if people didn't go to university just so they can get a degree then the statistics would be different. Not to mention that some universities are below par. Sure getting in such universities is easy, you study some BS degree with BS exams which anyone can pass and then you wonder why no one wants to hire you. Well cause there are 50 million other people like you - people who are not very cleaver & have no skills
kotapaka 1 month ago
Has anyone ever actually looked at the requirements for a "valuable" degree like Business Admin? Trust me. If your in HR, hire the philosophy major..
deadpool03mm 1 month ago
Employers have a long history of "Pushing the education button" when called out on why they won't hire American workers that stretches back into the 80s and 90s, (See H1A-H1B visa) particularly in the technical sector. The post graduate horror stories from that era alone heavily discourage a lot of people from putting in the extra steps often required for tech degrees.Also, Americans are entirely too fixated on this idea that a University=trade school these days. Ain't the way it works.
deadpool03mm 1 month ago
You know, I absolutely love Maher. I really do, but his whole take on college is fucking ridiculous. Here's a guy who majored in English and worked the stand-up comedy circuit in California immediately after before making it big, and he's so quick to judge today's arts and humanities majors for "not learning anything." What did you learn, Bill? Where's your engineering degree? Oh that's right. You're an exception. You get paid an obscene salary just to BS on cable TV for an hour each week. Ass.
billbenblue 1 month ago
@billbenblue I've found examples of guys from the post WW2 era who walked into high ranking jobs in National Defense with educational backgrounds in fine arts. Poetry. Music. Etc. A well rounded and well educated individual can ideally master what he or she puts his or her mind to. We've lost faith in that system as a society.
deadpool03mm 1 month ago
@deadpool03mm I know, and that's pretty goddamn tragic. It's a pity know-it-alls like Maher here can't appreciate that. It's also hypocritical, considering he has a background in arts and entertainment.
billbenblue 1 month ago
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tedirelan 1 month ago
@billbenblue You think HE gets paid so much to do so little, you should check out the stats on congress people and professional athletes. It's not fair, you're right. However, entrepreneurship can be a well paying avenue. Mark Zuckerburg doesn't have a degree either. He just plays on the computer and *poof* he's a billionaire. It may not be the way things should be, but for now it's the way things are.
tedirelan 1 month ago
@tedirelan Oh, I believe it. It's ridiculous. And that's the whole point: what right does someone like Maher--or ANYONE like Maher, such as the people you pointed out--have to complain that today's college kids aren't "learning" anything because they're not majoring in math or engineering? Especially when Maher's one of those people with a "useless" degree that he's making fun of. I agree with you completely about entrepreneurship: success is not predicated solely on you're degree.
billbenblue 1 month ago
Rachel Maddow just gained a new fan. Well said, ma'am.
yoko1423 1 month ago
There are no jobs in science or engineering, either.
amperro 1 month ago
When a college student graduates and cannot find a job, they are not counted among the unemployed (hence the bs 4% #).
85% go to live with parents. It's safe to say that at least 85% either don't find a job in their field, or are working at Starbucks.
Maybe things get better later on, maybe they don't. Either way, far too many people are starting out life with a giant noose around their neck.
123gwf 1 month ago
The stats Bill cites need to be explained better. People with degrees find work... we have a shortage of engineers... more people get psych degrees than engineering degrees... so what? Are the graduates who find work all engineers? I kind of doubt it. Employers will choose somebody with a degree in ANYTHING over somebody without (because they have useful "soft skills"). And schools know that, and crank up the tuition. Until the system breaks.
biglinguist 1 month ago
@biglinguist except that its kind of hard for a psychology major to be an engineer...
JAROSLAVAGINA 1 month ago
@JAROSLAVAGINA Or vice versa. Point taken! But my main argument is that you don't need a psych degree to become middle management, or a researcher, or a "smart gopher". But employers will take the candidate with the degree over the candidate without. Because, who wouldn't?
biglinguist 1 month ago
@biglinguist many wouldn't, but i think this is a bad way of thinking. for instance, lets say you have two equally intelligent individuals one goes to become a college graduate, while the other goes to work as a machinist for a company right after graduating high school. by the time the college student graduate, the hs grad has 4 years of experience, not just in technical operation of machine tools, but also manufacturing systems exposure. Now lets say a mid level management position opens up.
JAROSLAVAGINA 1 month ago
@JAROSLAVAGINA Yes, I think that's how things used to work, and I like it because it puts the expense and trouble of training on the employer, instead of the schools, the state, and the employee. But where I live, most employers just won't hire the high school grad, because they can get a university grad who's already been finished at somebody else's expense. Even for jobs that don't need a degree.
biglinguist 1 month ago
@biglinguist and i think student loans are a large cause of that. before their implementation a college degree was not needed for entry level work. since then, we've seen a bubble form almost exactly like the housing bubble: everybody's got degrees. i really think that student loans should be either halved or done away with completely. by doing so, students will be forced to look at college from an investment standpoint and colleges will begin cutting useless expenses (continued)
JAROSLAVAGINA 1 month ago
@biglinguist (continued) like multi-million dollar inter mural exercise facilities. today student loans have created (to a degree) a third party payer system. as a result students don't care about the price (or at least up to this point), and have been more interested in luxurious amenities such as mansion style dorms and apartments or other features which are secondary to the value of their potential education at the college they choose.
JAROSLAVAGINA 1 month ago
@JAROSLAVAGINA I don't mind a third party payer system if it's regulated... in places where the third party is the government, directly (i.e., subsidies to tuition), you don't seem to have the same luxurious amenities. Or maybe I just hang around the wrong universities!
biglinguist 1 month ago
@biglinguist third party payer systems in 99% of all cases result in costs which outpace inflation. Another example of such a system would be the health care industry. the wide spread use of health insurance has resulted in costs increasing to a point that paying out of pocket is impossible: the same point where college tuition is heading now. Examples of direct tuition subsidies would be grants such as Pale grants. Therefore the system you described still allows for excesses.
JAROSLAVAGINA 1 month ago
@JAROSLAVAGINA I have no problem with excesses in the system, if it means that many people who couldn't otherwise afford something (university, healthcare) get it. Perhaps the excesses are greater when for-profit providers know that buyers have access to third party money? I guess that's why I prefer a system where the government directly subsidizes universities (and healthcare), thus keeping direct costs to users low. That system is what got me from poverty to graduation.
biglinguist 1 month ago
@biglinguist The problem arises when we look to the source of the third party money. In the case of health care it wouldn't make much difference if the fed payed for it, or if insurance companies paid for it, with the exception that insurance companies would be more responsive to customer demands than the federal government which is traditionally slow to rouse. (if you don't believe me, look at congressional approval polls). The problem with excess is that its excessive cost. continued...
JAROSLAVAGINA 1 month ago
@biglinguist (continued...) for-profit providers are (under most conditions) more likely to keep excesses minimized as it increases their competitiveness, except in situations where that excess (as mentioned earlier regarding colleges) is a market qualifier. So lets assume we "nationalized" the cost of higher education, even further, to the point that higher education becomes a true third party payer system. As a result the cost of college would increase dramatically, or (continued again...)
JAROSLAVAGINA 1 month ago
@biglinguist (continued again...) it's access would be rationed. In one situation we have people who never went to college paying for your college, and in the other we have people who weren't allowed to go to college paying for your college.
JAROSLAVAGINA 1 month ago
Rachel, but Mitt or Obama will most likely send them to IRAN.
lucasboden 1 month ago
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JesusPaid4You 1 month ago
The elephant in the room is the widely-recognized liberal nature of the dogma permeating through almost 100% of the same American colleges that Bill Maher, the liberal, claims are failing this country and its graduates. Awkward.
BrotherAtticus 1 month ago
@BrotherAtticus I'm not really sure what having liberal political leanings has to do with pursing something in the liberal arts. I assure you there are conservatives you take up English, too. What I do find a little annoying and preachy, though, is that we're hearing this from a comedian. Obviously, he wasn't compelled to study science. Anyway, I tend to agree with @alphacause. In college, you're kind of limited by the quality of your prior educational experience, not just by what interests you.
awhitegmail 1 month ago
@awhitegmail I didn't criticize the liberal arts. I enjoy the liberal arts. I'm saying that American higher education in general has a notorious, politically liberal-leaning bias, which would be fair enough if colleges (NOT just liberal arts) were producing good news for this country, but they are not. That's all.
BrotherAtticus 1 month ago
would any man on this planet want to fuck Rachel Maddow in a sober state? looks like a nerdy dude
Koryo8 1 month ago
america needs more psychologists to whom people can go after they graduate colledge as a psychology major and don't find a job
Koryo8 1 month ago 28
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mirrormanson 5 days ago
@mirrormanson sorry, english is my third language but i hope my point got across
Koryo8 5 days ago
These are the very idiots that are CAUSING the problem!
The "college bubble" is caused by the same policies that caused the housing bubble: GOVERNMENT MEDDLING.
By taking over the student loan industry, the government has effectively destroyed all market forces which would otherwise keep education affordable (like it did in the past). By making credit artificially easy (EXACTLY like they did with housing) they will keep driving prices up until the whole system crashes.
Liberals are idiots.
UncleIrv 1 month ago
@UncleIrv guessed you missed the part where they said college tuition has gone up 600% since 1980. Obama was not president then. I know history is a bad subject for republicunts, so I'll give you some help. 1980-1988 Regan. 1988-1992- Bush Sr. 1992-2000 Clinton. 2000-2008 Bush Jr. Obama 2008 - present. That's 20 years of Republican leadership, and only 11 years of liberal leadership. So fuck you.
kakashi76767 1 month ago
@kakashi76767
You are a stupid fuck, aren't you? Do you think the PRESIDENCY has sole control of all aspects of life, including the established bureaucracy?
It doesn't matter one fuck WHO THE PRESIDENT WAS from 1980 to present--nor did I even make that argument!
The GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRACY has gradually taken over all student loans. This began long before Obama, but was COMPLETED by him. And this is the cause of astronomical college tuitions that have no connection with reality.
UncleIrv 1 month ago
@UncleIrv it must be fun to be able to make up history as you go along.
kakashi76767 1 month ago
@UncleIrv u mad bro?
kakashi76767 1 month ago
@UncleIrv by the way, if it were not for "government meddling" we would have no economy. The bank bailouts were authorized by Republicans, and for good reason. If the government had not intervened, the free market would have destroyed the entire economy. So fuck the free market and fuck you. If government were run by people like you, we would all be starving to death right now. Another fun fact: the banks grabbed as many sub prime mortgages as they could ON THEIR OWN. THEY fucked it up.
kakashi76767 1 month ago
@kakashi76767
Bullshit. Besides being an outrageous example of corporatist cronyism, the bank bailouts did nothing but put us deeper in debt. If the banks would have been allowed to fail, the assets would have found their true value, and the economy would have undergone a correction. All would be fine by now.
Besides, it is ignorant fans of statist cronyism like you who ENABLED the precise corruption that CAUSED the crash in the first place!
Go study economics. Then we'll talk.
UncleIrv 1 month ago
@UncleIrv I have a PhD. Do you? The banks are so vastly interconnected to every other buisness out there that if any one of the banks would have failed, it would have dragged down ALL other banks, as well as most of wall street. Hell, when the $700 billion bailout package was REJECTED the first time around by the house on september 29, 2008 the stock market dropped almost 800 points and 1.2 trillion dollars was lost, DUMBASS. Everyone knew that without the bailout we were doomed.
kakashi76767 1 month ago
@kakashi76767
Yes, I do believe you have a PhD. In bullshit.
UncleIrv 1 month ago
@UncleIrv go watch a documentary called "frontline: inside the meltdown". It explains the reasons for the bailout so clearly that even a drooling retard like yourself can understand it. oh and i hope your family dies in a fire. XD
kakashi76767 1 month ago
@kakashi76767
Ahhh, you are a mindless droid of the mass media. Yes, journalists all have a degree in economics. If they tell you to jump off a bridge you should of course do it.
You hope my family dies in a fire? Ahhh, you must also be one of those compassionate, caring, tolerant, liberals.
Nice job you and your friends have done of fucking up the entire economies of both the US and Europe through 80 years of your voodoo economics. Enjoy the Mad Max world you have created.
UncleIrv 1 month ago
@UncleIrv The term "voodoo economics" was coined by Bush Sr. when he ran against Ronald Regan in the 1980 republican primary. He used to term to describe Regan's proposal for tax cuts, which he also described as "economic madness". After Regan was elected and the tax cuts were in place, the economy tanked and Regan had to raise taxes 4 times to avoid a depression. So its odd that you accuse a liberal of voodoo economics when it was coined by a conservative, describing a conservative.
kakashi76767 1 month ago
@kakashi76767
Correction:
(1) The term "voodoo economics" was coined by a NEO-conservative--not a conservative.
(2) Who the fuck cares who COINED it?
(3) You are a liar. The U.S. economy THRIVED after Reagan's tax cuts. By the 1984 election the second longest peacetime economic expansion in U.S. history had begun.
(4) Reagan's tax increases were not "to avoid a depression" you idiot. The DEMOCRAT CONGRESS pushed them in exchange for spending cuts--which they NEVER DELIVERED.
UncleIrv 1 month ago
@UncleIrv 1) i dont care what you fuckers call yourselves. If you are right of center you are a republicunt to me. 2) It was to show that have no idea what the terms you use mean, ie. you are a bullshitter. 3) More bullshit. If the economy THRIVED after Reagan's tax cut, why didn't the economy THRIVE after Bush's RECORD tax cuts for the wealthy? You will notice Obama has kept the tax cuts in place as well. 4) Thus Reagan failed to lead.
kakashi76767 1 month ago
@UncleIrv I often wonder why republicunts hate schools and always want to cut spending to education. First, educated people with a future won't join the military. Second, republicunts want to sacrifice children to satan, and if they are not in school they will become easier to abduct. Google it. Its a fact. Glenn Beck actually killed a little girl once. google it.
kakashi76767 1 month ago
@kakashi76767
You are a fucking nut case. You are not worthy of my time anymore, you simpleminded hate-mongering douche bag.
UncleIrv 1 month ago
@kakashi76767 Those same pranksters just created another website called: kakashi76767PutAGerbilUpHisAssAndKilledItIn2012-dot-com.
BRYAN351 1 month ago
@kakashi76767 How did a fuck head like you get a PhD? I think your full of shit
Coolz444 1 month ago
If we can somehow create more middle class jobs all of these educational problems will get solved. The government needs to find a way to get more companies to create or keep the manufacturing jobs in the U.S. Universities are competing and driving tuition up becuase people now need to go in order to compete in the workforce. It's not an individuals fault for picking a bad degree. They are paying for it.
Tikiman03 1 month ago
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Maher's right.
Help us do something about it.
Vote for Ron Paul in the GOP primaries, and kick the warmongering neocons out of the race.
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We welcome your help. Please consider it.
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Premier112 1 month ago
i will not be a debt slave for anyone
circusaroundtheworld 1 month ago
It should be stated that the reason more Americans are not choosing engineering and other math/science based careers - jobs which there is a market for - is because they are not taught math and science very well in grades K - 12. Hence, they develop a disdain for the very subjects, which dissuades them from choosing the very majors that will allow them to obtain a good paying career.
alphacause 2 months ago 41
@alphacause Not everyone can do calculus. It doesn't matter how many math books you leave around the house for toddlers to find. The mistake is thinking we need to get everyone a degree in science. Not everyone can be a doctor, a chemist, a physicist, a software engineer. And that should be alright. People should be able to make a life for themselves w/o having to fork over hundreds of thousands of dollars to a university to be a rocket scientist.
ion010101 1 month ago
@ion010101 You're right. More venues to economic success should exist, besides college. There was a time when people, who went to trade schools, or just worked through the ranks of a business, could earn a comfortable living. Now even these professions require a 4 year degree or will soon. Though I am a college graduate, I think it is unfair. First, it excludes people who could do the job well, but don't have a degree. Second, the more people who get Bachelor's degrees, the less they are worth.
alphacause 1 month ago
@alphacause and theres also the other group of over priviliged rich white progeny that dont want to be like ther parents and want to "express themselves", "be an individual", yada yada artistic hipperster crap etc
kaindrg 1 month ago
@alphacause I think it's more just because American culture caters towards glorification of musicians, actors, and politicians. We're raising a generation of children who all want to be rock stars and movie directors. It's alot more fun and easier to study film, art, and communications than it is to study engineering, math, and science.
doggieGZ 1 month ago
@alphacause Don't be too sure about that. Many engineering jobs have been outsourced to cheaper foreigners, and those with engineering degrees have to either work in non-engineering jobs, or remain unemployed.
papalolita 1 week ago
@papalolita I completey concur that our corporations are outsourcing jobs, even in the math and sciences, like engineering, to foreign companies.
alphacause 1 week ago
@papalolita (cont.) However, even with this outsourcing, there is still a greater number of high paying jobs, in this field, than for those in the liberal arts. That was my point.
alphacause 1 week ago
What this panel is talking about here is called "academic inflation" or "degree inflation", and it is really happening. The college degree is worth less and less, not only because people chose majors in this country that do not match the science/math/business based job market, but because too many people are receiving a college degree to where it is no longer a major way to distinguish yourself. It is becoming as normal to have a Bachelors as it is a high school diploma.
alphacause 2 months ago
Bill Maher is exactly right, everyone acts like they are entitled to a job as long as they go to college but that isn't realistic. If you get a degree in a field there isn't any jobs in and in one where everyone else is getting a degree in don't expect a job out of college.
LeadVitamin 2 months ago
Education starts with the individual. You can go to college but unless you want to learn you won't learn anything. A huge problem we have is that people pick an easy degree like business or history and become knowledgable but can't work. When you go to college you need to work jobs as well or get involved in activities, that is how you really learn and it is up the the individual to do that. I know a very knowledgable guy who never worked before, now he is having trouble finding a job.
whyamimrpink78 2 months ago
@whyamimrpink78 I actually disagree.. In other cultures, you don't have a job while in college. I think the truth is, having a job is a bad idea while in college. We as Americans can't really dedicate ourselves to anything. College SHOULD be the students only job. It is hard to study 40 hours a week for an engineering degree while working 40 hours a week at dead ends ville.
AndroidsGhost 2 months ago
This video went viral on La Paz
javierhayden94 2 months ago
That woman's neck is too wide and her ears are too big for her to look nice with such short hair. Nevertheless she makes a very valid point about how much intelligence is involved in being a soldier. Unlike students, who often don't attend class or do the readings, soldiers are required to use their intelligence.
cromptonator 2 months ago
@cromptonator I found interesting the way you had to criticize her look before approve what she was saying.
Wedhro 2 months ago
Bald faced liar!! ha ha baldy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
select3315 2 months ago
Just cracks me up to hear American corporations say "they can't find qualified American workers". They just can't find ones willing to work for poverty wages. How are they supposed to repay their college loans AND support themselves while making far less than their parents did?
This so-called "global economy" is nothing but a race-to-the-bottom for labor - skilled and unskilled. I hope I live to see all corporate lobbyists lined up against a wall and shot for treason.
wby3006 2 months ago
Bill Maher+Rachel Maddow=nerdgasm.
Ilyak1986 2 months ago
So Friedman doesn't want students to be debt slaves but he wants government to give a new type of G.I. Bill for students? Who pays for that? We do! So we get more debt and education continues to increase in price. Yeah, great solution, jackass.
razerfish 2 months ago
@razerfish Amen. That kind of pissed me off...let's not make our kids debt slaves so let's borrow some more money from China!
Namso2010 2 months ago
That's why I'm studying in Europe before moving to the U.S.
xvegansxex 2 months ago
@xvegansxex why would you want to move to the u.s? there is nothing here
shyvixx1 2 months ago
@shyvixx1 There are more jobs than in Italy.
xvegansxex 2 months ago
in the real world, it's not what you know but WHO you know!!
rozozzy 2 months ago
i think that a tech school would actually serve better than a degree for the majority of people
lpfan540 2 months ago
I feel that college can help you, it's up to the individual am at a degree I know what do but many jobs want you to have a B.A.degree even if you know or have the skills. I learn best outside of school, that's a fact for me. Or take parts, because tests don't really help me.
lovemyselfforever86 2 months ago
@lovemyselfforever86
Maybe you should go back to high school... Learn to write in complete sentences. Everything you just said was incoherent.
HipHopRally 2 months ago
Yeah, the Vet's of our generation are incredibly skilled in high tech skills and high performance demanding jobs, problem is except they come home and after a few months their PTSD kicks in and they end up doo-lally because they suffer from insomnia and if they sleep its terror dreams and if they stay awake its hallucinations, flashbacks, hypervigilance, depression, feelings of guilt and fall apart. They end up unable to work, either homeless, addicted, hurt and sidelined.
joanofarc33 2 months ago
It's NOT in college you will learn to do a job, I'm 28 and had 3 jobs (good one's) and college did fuck all for me. It's your company that teaches you to do a job.
Fly2Azeroth 2 months ago
@Fly2Azeroth You go to College to be smart enough to do more different kinds of jobs.
monokhem 2 months ago
This is one reason i am scared to go to college. I currently work at UPS i am 20 years old and i dont know what to do? I want to get a degree in diesel mechanic to be a mechanic at UPS and wait my time to be a truck driver or Become a college graduate and possibly not be hired for some time and be in possible debt or like i say in the SHITHOLE
ErickLazcon4 2 months ago
Currently the college debt owed is about 1 trillion dollars. So Thomas Friedmans solution is pass the cost on to the government(taxpayers). Give them the debt? For all the outrage at CEOs making obscenee bonuses, how about the obscene expeditures at colleges??? Presidents making a million dollars?? Pensions for Facilities workers? etc. How did college go up 600%. Talk about greed!!!
GKC1874 2 months ago
We need to get our kids solidified on math and science skills from a very early age and not move them onto the next concept until they as individuals fully understand the last one and can live in it. This system of, "do just enough to pass and move on with your class" is not good enough. Kids need to feel confident and unafraid of math in order to keep building on their skills so when they're college age, they feel they can go into an engineering degree program and be capable at it.
Cjl99 2 months ago
@Cjl99 So I must become an engineer? It's alright for me to be illiterate and incapable of understanding how to think analytically or understand how politics and social constructs operate and were formed? More power to those seeking positions in those fields. I am good at math, but I'm better at humanities. I sit in my college math courses and I can feel my soul crying, but it sings as I type my essay on the motivations of Rome in creating democracy, but I suppose that doesn't matter.
laurenofg 2 months ago
@laurenofg I hear you. I am going for my Master's if Arts in Humanities and I have gotten nothing but grief from everyone that I know. It is like the humanities have become a joke.
PABSTMAN138 2 months ago
@laurenofg
Surely you mean Greece.
ProfessorxVile 2 months ago
@ProfessorxVile actually I meant rome and the republic, Thank you though.
laurenofg 2 months ago
@laurenofg Not what I'm saying at all...I personally feel myself way more drawn to creative/political/investigative realms and believe everyone should cultivate those things they are instinctively drawn to. My point was every student should feel they have THE OPTION to go into math/science careers if they want because they feel confident in their skills. Same as I feel kids should start learning a second language in grade school.
Cjl99 2 months ago
I've been saying was Thomas Friedman says here for a couple years now. Our public education should cover up to a Bachelor degree now. In 1911 a high school diploma was adequate, not anymore.
luvitluvitbaby 2 months ago
If we give all the technical knowledge to just one computer/machine/robot..and use it to impart the knowledge then all professors, universities, colleges, books, presidents, chancellors become useless and redundant...that's just one huge bubble there! It seems they all just love their jobs/pay checks/bonuses/perks/privileges/goodies too much to let it go.
The education-industrial complex is got to go!
USZombeeKing 2 months ago
When the college bubble bursts, be prepared for other bubbles to burst too..like the american feminist shemale bubble.
USZombeeKing 2 months ago
We have all these paranoid idiots out there decrying socialism when clearly the only way to ensure that future generations of Americans have access to 4 yr institutions is to socialize the system. There are industrialized nations in this world where a college education is free. Why not here?
sammy2trees 2 months ago
@sammy2trees because we can't trust our Congress and Government to manage them for the benefit of the people. Maybe when our Government works I can trust socialism, till then fuck it. Leave me and my money alone.
Phalanx3800 2 months ago
college is a joke, you have to take classes that mean absolutely nothing in terms of having a job, biggest scam there is right now
3521soda 2 months ago
I agree we aint learning. its like we are buying the degree in that case. I am a college student and the classes are just tedious
PinkFurr07 2 months ago
school sucks,it dosent help learn what is important for you,it gives you a bunch of "facts"but no lesson to lern from them.and you cant learn whatever you want as long as you have the desire to do it,but people have no desire to do anthing because weare always told how to "learn"
kosycat1 2 months ago
College education is a huge bubble unfortunately. If people aren't working in jobs where they use their diploma then it's worthless.
adi87tya 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Here is the summary of all his lamentations:
a) Thank you for…
b) Sorry for what the others have done…
c) We live in the greatest Nation in the world…
d) I am going to change it…
e) Join me to hate the GOP…
f) The GOP is undermining…
g) Let’s grab the the stupid workers money so I can send them to my smart friends…
h) Let’s get it done now…
cinder544 2 months ago
I also protest any forgiving student debt. If they forgive their debts. I expect them to forgive my debts also. The students knew what they were getting into when they took out those loans. If they are smart enough to go to college, then they should be smart enough to be able to read the loan agreement and understand it before they signed it.
HixsonLibra 2 months ago
@HixsonLibra I don't think blaming the students will get you anywhere. You do realize that most companies will not even look at your resume if you don't have a college degree, right? The market, the employers, and the government have sold the idea that you need a degree -- it's a competitive world out there and they can hire people from overseas. Also, college is hella expensive in this country...so everyone is forced to make that investment. Nobody chooses to be in debt.
adi87tya 2 months ago
Boy, these elite neocons just don't get it. We need jobs that actually produce tangible, in hand type jobs. These " knowledge " jobs don't produce anything that anyone really needs. If I need a shovel to dig up a garden to grow my food. I can't buy a shovel made here. I have to buy it from China. We are so f-cked.
HixsonLibra 2 months ago
@HixsonLibra I went to college for art and design, when I was told to go into Graphic Design cause there were "many opportunities." I studied as hard as I could, going through my four year degree, and now I work in retail, barely able to pay bills. I live at home, been laid off and unemployed for 5 months at one point, and due to that, almost defaulted on my loans many times. But, what's out there now? Spec Work. A way for business people to get free art out of artists. It's horrible.
TakeruSTakomi 2 months ago
Who's the dude with the glasses?
jtaylor12080 2 months ago
lol nowadays people go to college to party.
0019930418 2 months ago 8
This is so true, student loan debt is a tremendous shackle. Turning this nations youth out into the world with $80,000 is student loans is a crime against humanity..
bradleyt1 2 months ago
That's a chick?
Lv089 2 months ago
haha my philosophy professor told us the book was too expensive so we should just steal it. brilliant man
dopeasfuckk 2 months ago
Friedman sticking up for the phony credentialism "economy" of his friends and family.
Except for sciences and engineering, post-secondary education is rubbish ...and a high-school diploma should be sufficient for most careers, with some on-the-job-training.
Farcical "Ivy -League" etc. pseudo-elites are an incompetent and increasingly disloyal phony "leadership" class ..who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a position of public trust and responsibility.
And never employ "Northeastern Liberals".
ProNorden 2 months ago
i learn more in 20 mintes of stumbling upon shit than 1 year of college.
xPurpleDrinkx9001 2 months ago 2
@xPurpleDrinkx9001 minutes*
xPurpleDrinkx9001 2 months ago
WOW. Is that Bill Maher actually realizing that government spending increases prices???? He knows what a bubble is now? He stopped blaming the free market for the housing bubble and mortgage meltdown? Look at that!
USTreasuryBond 2 months ago
for a 4 year degree, get it in a major where there will actually be demand for people w/ that SPECIFIC major when you graduate. don't buy into the bullshit that the college industrial complex will tell you like, "a political science major has good critical thinking skills, and employers want that. poli-sci majors have gone on to become stock brokers, engineers, CEOS, etc." THEY SAY THAT SHIT ABOUT EVERY MAJOR! what they neglect to mention is that they got these jobs DESPITE of their major...
UltraProle21 2 months ago
Tuition is so fucking high because the government federally ensures student loans given out by the banks. This means universities can charge whatever they see fit and banks will loan out whatever a student needs. This creates a moral hazard wherein banks don't care about getting paid back by the student so the government picks up the tab the university gets the money and the student is hit with bills with massive interest.
sellsjeeps 2 months ago
College is a bubble, therefore we must exacerbate it by doing more of the same, makes perfect sense (motherfucking facepalm)
mana2432 2 months ago
Jews created the housing bubble and Jews created the student loan bubble. Jews love to print money and lend it at variable interest rates to those they know will never be able to pay it back. The Jewish vampire bankers are ready and willing to keep a generation of Americans in a lifetime of debt.
mgunar 2 months ago
@mgunar lol
seatown2000 2 months ago
@mgunar we should not be giving any money to the so called jewish homeland. BUT I think you might be thinking on this subject a little much .
linoleumcarving 2 months ago
the US is going to shit. i would encourage everyone to at least enter your local community college and work toward an AA using pale grants. im 3 quarters away from my AA and if the world isnt completely fucked by the time i get it im going to go into the army and use the GI bill to go to university later on.
please absorb as much as you can. get an education, we need that more than we need trade school skills at this point in america
jamnin94 2 months ago
The problem is not what people are majoring in, it's in what is being preached about what is "worthy" vs "unworthy" in regards to degrees. The fact is that with any discipline, too many people holding specialized degrees only guarantees their utter uselessness in the span of a couple of decades. Master's degrees don't even hold as much weight as they did 15 years ago. They become diluted which leads to the dilution of knowledge which dilutes instruction which eliminates true learning.
GirlieRat 3 months ago
I love Bill Maher, but he's being too polite. It's obvious that a lot of college students shouldn't be in college - thank you liberal society for thinking college (aka debt slaves) is for EVERYBODY.
Nope. You should go to college if your future job requires it. Engineer, teachers, doctors, lawyers, etc. need to (and should) go to college. Otherwise.....either learn on the job or go to a trade school. Are people that dumb to not know this???
m015094 3 months ago 2
didn't bill major in english?
cdphatty 3 months ago
lol it's funny watching people w/ bullshit majors try to defend their idiotic choices. it's not the world's fault that you can't do math.
UltraProle21 3 months ago
@theorangebp My bachelors program is for Computer Engineering since it's the only stable career. Please explain to me how Anthropology was a use to me as a Senior System Analyst other than a way for colleges to make an extra buck on.
MrQuijadaj 3 months ago
@MrQuijadaj I did not say it was useful to you I said if you took that class and it was not useful to you then it is your fault. I am sure if you went to a halfway decent school they had many different class choices for you. Not to mention the fact that if you want a bachelors there are certain requirements if you didn't want to fulfill them then you should have gone to a trade school. No one made you do anything.
theorangebp 3 months ago
@theorangebp Did you drink the higher ed' kool-aid? A class can be useless for any number of reasons. The instruction may be bland? Outdated? Irrelevant? on and on.... To grad' on time you often have to take what's available since classes don't offer unlimited seats (although I rem' getting around this one). Many college req's equate to silly hoop-jumping to ensure that certain departments don't become extinct. What's trade school got to do with that? TS's have their own unique req's too.
Fantageous 3 months ago
@MrQuijadaj think of it as your philanthropic contribution? Hmm, how can Anthro' help a System Analyst? Builds critical thinking/writing communication skill? It might help you to have a more in depth understanding of organizations and hierarchy? Might provide inspiration as a creative catalyst? Might grow stronger neuron connections in your brain that as a System Analyst may be under utilized? Bet you didn't need a semester long class for any of it. So, your right - way for them to make $
Fantageous 3 months ago
What we need are the revitalizations of schools and skilled craftsmen instead of bullshit programs that puts students in bullshit classes that doesn't transfer to the real world. Ex. Anthropology is one class that I had to take that had no use to me.
MrQuijadaj 3 months ago
@MrQuijadaj College is not just about training for the workforce it's about becoming an educated and well rounded individual. If you took a class that was not useful to you then that is your fault.
theorangebp 3 months ago
@theorangebp
When college is all about your peronal ego and likedoings then the workforce should not pay you for that.
kaesknacker 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@kaesknacker likedoings? Who said anything about ego?
theorangebp 3 months ago
@theorangebp You are in denial! Take a look at most academic programs requiring 'useless' electives that many majors must take to graduate (subsidizes lib. arts dept's). Higher ed. markets college to millions of potential students as a vocational necessity (touting skewed stat's about earning potential). The idea that college is a necessary rite of passage was a great social engineering project since so many believe the marketing hype. You can become educated in the humanities w/o college.
Fantageous 3 months ago
@Fantageous You can become educated in the humanities without college, but to think that more than a few exceptions will ever grasp philosophy, political science, etc. without formal training is delusional. The reason people are starting to view these majors as useless is because people who do not belong in these fields in the first place are going out getting a B.A. and crying about how no employer will higher a B.A. of political science as an analyst.
sryan1216 2 months ago
Mr. Friedman, we are already debt slaves. Our nation pays taxes to the government which turns around and hands that cash over to the Federal Reserve Bank to pay interest on fake, worthless money.
willstoz 3 months ago
some of the time college =educated idiots
onlythewise1 3 months ago
The class of life is always in session gentiles, study malcolm x or else ur a dum bitch
ericvanderpool25 3 months ago
@valtenge The point is intelligence is innate, it's as much a personality trait as aggressiveness or shyness, but it is NOT about following the path favored by the status quo, it's about making a decision based on the cards YOU have to play, in YOUR life and time, not in your parents life and time. The last remnants of the industrial age are disappearing, Post Secondary institutions are clinging to a thread, do you want to be in the building when it crumbles?
12Ominous