PART 2... Christians with homosexual thoughts should not consider themselves gay they should deny those thoughts and when they get them they should pray and read the word. And if they are not able to feel attraction for the opposite sex then they should be celibate. But I have heard of a gay guy who was not christian and married a woman because he fell in love with her. Their was only one woman he ever felt attraction to and it was her because he loved her. How do you think homos should live.
PART 1 I really liked this video. It's hard to find other christians who believe the same way as me. So do you think gay's should try and fight their sexuality and either force them self to be straight or be celibate. Or do you think whatever you know your sinning all sins are the same just keep doing it because I know as a Christian I try not to lie and such but I'm human and I fail Jesus picks me back up. I believe people (christians) with homosexual thoughts... continued in part 2
Yeah a loving father sharing the fumes of his oversized, erected cancer stick with the whole family. I'm surprised the hot air coming out of ur mouth didn't ignite from the cigar and blow up your ignorant butt.
Are you fucking serious? you're sitting there smoking a big ass cigar distroying your lungs and raising your chances for oral cancer and you have the nerve to talk about whats rightous and whats not?
what is god??????????????????? YOU ARE GOD. search deep within your self. stop relying on a "holy" book the inquisition translated and setup years ago. the psychedelic experience will fail to be recognized, but is a prominent truth
the fact that you are smoking a massive cigar and constantly air punching towards the camera and saying "wapow" makes it very hard to take you seriously
@AmericanRoyalty1 I'm surprised that anyone takes me seriously at all; with or without the air punching. It's been a year though, and I haven't done much air punching since then. I wonder if that is what has earned me some credibility?
@reverendmbrewer - Well, I respect your opinion, however, you should investigate what the word natural means. I assume you meant irregular or regular?
Also, I must ask what parts of the bible you truly believe and what parts you don't? I suggest with confidence you do not support the beating etiquette of a slave.
And lastly, why/how is homosexuality secularly wrong without using your religious 'opinion'...?
@reverendmbrewer everything you said was %100 correct I'm Christian also. It's amazing how Jesus died for our sins anyone can go to heaven it doesn't matter how heavy a sinner you are gay or not. I'm a sinner and so is everyone else If you're gay that's okay to me God is the one to judge not I, and ignore the dislikes man It's alright there's many people out there who are more ignorant than the book burning Christians abortion bombers we're not ones to judge god is God wants us to help not hurt
I agree as a fellow Christian that homosexual sex is no better or worse than an other fornication. The sin of adultury is perhaps worse as it involves not only your own person but breaking the covenant of marriage thus your spouse's promise under god to you, and often a married person has children and thus your sin would concern to them as well. I have fornicated in my life and not immune to sin, it is the least I can do to have a christan/brotherly forgiving attitude toward other sinners.
@thedemonnemo - It's very dangerous to view sin as something that is 'metaphorically' passed down through offspring. In fact, the most dangerous thought a human can possess is to know the mind of god and what god expects out of humanity...
@aquatix I did not mean to imply that somehow children carry their parents' burden of sin. Rather I was trying to say that the children of an adulterer are very effected by extra-marital affairs and the divorce that often occurs as a result. Thanks for pointing out the "loophole" in my vague statement, I'm happy to have a chance to clearify the matter.
@reverendmbrewer ok, i will try to talk to god, but since im 25 years old i dont believe in fairy tales anymore... but can i ask you something? i am just curious... so im an atheist, i sin every day, maybe even every hour of the day, but what is going to happen to me now? am i not going to heaven? am i going to hell? is god going to punish me?
@SaulColtof What is going to happen to you now? Like this moment? I have no idea. You may go on to lead a happy life. Still you will have to answer to God one day. If you die outside of Christ, you will face God bearing the weight of your own sins. Not even your best deeds will save you for they, as written in Isaiah 64:6, are as filthy rags before God. You will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 20-21). However, repent and believe, and you will be reconciled to God through Christ (John 3).
@reverendmbrewer but when i face god, will i be in heaven, hell, an immaginary world? this is quite unclear to me, since i have never experienced it. this is the reason why i ask you, because you seem to have a lot of knowledge about it. then i have another question for you... this knowledge i just talked about, is it based on experience? a book (the bible for example)? did god tell you?
@SaulColtof I see what you're getting at. I am not going to get into the Atheist v. Christian debate because it is useless. I have faith in what the Bible teaches. If you really want to know why people would trust the Bible at all, then I suggest you look into the apologetics of the Bible -how it comes to us, how it was put together, the sciences of higher and lower textual criticism, etc. Then make your own decision. Otherwise, I don't think any answer I offer will satisfy you.
@reverendmbrewer this wasnt meant as a debate, these comments were just an attempt to open your eyes. in this video you also talk about the gay community nagging about no gays in avatar, but dont you think you nag a little to much about gay people? just let them live in the way they want to live, and if it bothers you, just ignore it, grow a little thicker skin. oh and your answer extremely satisfies me... your answers just show that you are a bit of an ignorant person...
Sorry to post twice, but I just realised something.
All the christians ive seen, who go off on huge tangents about nomosexuality and why its unforgivable blah blah blah, ive always thought that they can't be doing "God's" (i'm athiest, sorry) work because one of his main teaching is to love. U are the first person I've seen who, if there is a god, is following all his teachings, sticking to a moral code but still loving everybody. That's pretty impressive :)
@bobothebearguy I have been forgiven much, so much more do I desire to love rightly the God who saved a wretch like me. My job is not throw stones and demand anyone to follow my morality, but to proclaim the Gospel. Christ who died for our sins and was resurrected for our Salvation. I'm not looking to change you or anyone, but to share the message that Christ has reconciled those who believe to God. Much more I hope to encourage all who claim Christ to do the same.
@reverendmbrewer I'm not going to convert any time soon, nor am i going to change my beliefs on homosexuality, but I still think your doing the right thing here. You have the right to share you're beliefs and the way you do is admirable. I thank you and respect you for that.
@bobothebearguy Thank you. I think this is the most civil experience I've had regarding this issue. Usually I get bombarded with all kinds of anger because of my stance. No matter how tolerant I am, and how peaceable I am regarding the matter, I usually get much hate. Thank you for your understanding as well. :-)
@reverendmbrewer Yes thank you for being so understanding. I have no wish to change my beliefs, and I disagree with yours, but you have the right to say what you think, and the way you do it is admirable. I thank and respect you for that.
I disagree with u, but i like that ur not going crazy or anything.... ur not really a big homophobic ranting...... person or anything, and i respect that. We can agree to disagree :)
If you are a citizen of the kingdom of God, and if you are His ambassador to this planet, then you do not have a personal opinion. The correct response is always this. "My kings position on this subject is "thus". as written in the constitution (Bible). An ambassador has NO OPINION!
LOL.. i think girl's part are grody.. however despite how i personally feel about the whole, you know someone being heterosexual..Yes, i will be the first to admit and confess i find it unnatural coz im not a pussy(or guns for lesb) lover.. LOL! that was very thoughful of you towards the glbt peeps coz some christian might wanna use Ezekiel 44:20 literally to condemn "bald-uality"... just LOL! God bless you brotha! cigar is naturally biblical.. =)
*great and refreshing to hear someone speak calmly and without insane hate about their point of view. As a lesbian and an atheist, I of course disagree with you, but it's nice to find someone to disagree with that doesn't scream and/or cause bodily harm, as I'm sure your gay friends can tell you.
How do you say it's unnatural when it is? Homosexuality has been observed in more than two dozen species, so if you believe in creation (even though that silly science concept has already proved that crazy notion of evolution), how to justify that? And how can you say you don't judge homosexuals and love your gay friends when you think these terrible things about LGBT people? And besides the Bible, do you have any argument whatsoever against homosexuality? Also, I want to add that I think it's
Thank you for at least trying to be tolerant, but I think you leave much to be desired. If you want to tell your kids homosexuality is wrong, that's fine. But when you vote to provent people form having the same rights as you that is bigoted. You do not have to like what homosexuals do, but if you want to be tolerant then you need to treat them equally. I don't like what christains do, I think its an immoral faith, but I would never ever vote on a law to make you else equal then anyone else.
You think to much by the laws of the bible, which is a book that is 2000 year old. The bible was written by people who had very strict 'laws' then.
Try to realise that those days are over and that god means "LOVE" in any way. Not a human being...just cosmic love.
By the way...I think you're a very nice person and you're a good person. But don't forget the cosmic laws, which are also called "god'. A god doesn't judge, it's the people who judge and then say they use gods words or the bible.
Please google "A Letter to Louise" and read that letter on any website which carries it. As well, please watch the movie "Prayers for Bobby," starring Sigourney Weaver. I believe that each of these might be a valuable resource concerning the issues you raise. In all sincerity I ask that you do this.
Well, then let us discuss the passages your presented and their meanings. This will be a multiple part reply, so bear with me.
Earlier you boasted of a Ph.D. in Theology. Your questions, and approach to Scripture leads me to believe that you are either a) lying, b) purchased your Ph.D. online, or c) rushed through your Doctorate with a chip on your shoulder. So let us proceed with the texts at hand...
You brought up a verse dealing with uncleanness (Lev. 18:19), a passage dealing with adultery and God's demand of sexual purity (Deut. 22:13-21), a passage that dealing with possibly cutting off one's ability to have children (lineage, heritage, etc.)(Deut. 25:11-12), and a passage where Christ points out the straining of gnats, and misinterpretation of the law by the religious elite (Mark 12:18-27)....
First the Law (Lev. - Deut.). The Law was heavy upon the people of Israel. God was calling them to holiness, and He meant it in the most strict manner. Things deemed evil were not to be tolerated. They were called to perfection. But perfection wasn't possible, this is why there were sacrifices to cover known sins, sins of omitting, unknowns sins, peace offerings, praise, etc. These were signs of grace and forgiveness...
(LAW CONT'D) ...signs of the coming Christ. The law was heavy, and called...demanded...for the people to love God with all they were, and in doing so, His law would come naturally (Deut. 30). But we fail to see this when we want to show how cruel God was. Stoning! Absurd! Right? But that is the standard we have to meet, utter perfection, to be worthy of coming to the Father. The Law revealed the radical...
(LAW CONT'D)...life we had to live. A life that loved God above everything (father, mother, wife, children, even self, etc.) and cannot tolerate anything unclean. The sacrifices and options (such as the ability to divorce a woman quietly instead of putting her to death -Duet. 24, Matt. 1) of grace are missed by many readers. Symbols and foreshadows of Christ and the grace and forgiveness He brings...
(LAW CONT'D)...You see the Law reveals the standard of God, and reveals are inability to meet the requirements of the Law. It both points to our need of a Savior and to the Savior Himself (Col. 2). And that Savior is Christ who fulfilled the Law (Romans 8) and in whom we are declared justified by our faith in Him (2 Cor. 5:20-10), which is a gift of God's grace (Eph. 2)...
(LAW CONT'D)...the law is radically demanding. It calls us out and separates us to God, and demands holiness which we cannot meet. "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved..." (Eph. 2:4-5)
Christ was our propitiation, for those who believe, and reconciled us to God...
Second, in Mark 12:18-19 we have Jesus who explains to the religious leaders of the day that they have strained gnats and missed the point and meaning of the Law. They have missed the point. They have missed that it is about loving God who desires mercy over sacrifice (Hos. 6, Matt. 9, Matt. 12).
It is easy to pull out painful sounding verses, and make Scripture say what you want for it to say. It is easy to take the Word out of context. That is why I am strict about proper exegesis.
...Your focus is on homosexuality, yet mine was that of sin, all sin, even sins we tolerate and respect. It points to our guilt before God and our need for God's mercy, grace, and compassion to save us, for we cannot justify ourselves before God. This has been my whole point, but all that most anyone heard was "homosexual."
GRACE! That is what this is all about. The Redeemer and Reconciler and Shepherd who laid down His life for His sheep, that we might have LIFE in Him.
And alike, it is also easy to find versus that suit your needs and sound good. The Bible is what it is, simple a moral guideline. It was written in such vague terms that those who read it constantly yet don't properly take into account the possibility of false text can be fooled. I suggest instead of hiding behind the lines of text you take a religion course that takes a non bias approach. Your faith may be strengthened or shattered, but I guarantee you will learn a lot more than you know now.
I'm a former practicing Neo-pagan with a few comparative religion course under my belt. My job demands comparative religious studies. I have looked at apologetics and the various opposing claims to Scriptures.
Do not know consider what I do as hiding behind Scripture, but placing my faith in them wholly. Without a second thought, I believe them to be God's Word to man. I do not get to pick and choose what I like, I don't get to define it to my own terms. This is what Christianity looks like.
So here is something to think about. There is nothing in the Bible about Jesus during teen years. We know he was a carpenter. To become a carpenter, cobbler, or other craftsman, they were required to apprentice under a master in those days. It was also common practice for that master to have homosexual relations with the apprentice. Jesus may have had gay sex... On top of that, he never married and had friends that were all men which he "loved" Jesus may have been gay...
Not only is that as theologically off base as you can possibly be, it also neglects that the Father said concerning His Son: "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased." Christ was without sin. " (Matthew 3).
Christ was perfect, without sin, blameless before God. (Romans 8) He did what we could not, that we might be saved by grace through faith. (Ephesians 2).
You really could not be anymore off base in your claim.
If you read my other post. You should realize now that everything is speculation. The Bible is not gods direct word. In fact...most of the Gospels were written by people far after the time of Christ. If you have played the telephone game. You would know that many things are poorly translated many years past. Mathew Mark, L and J were all written some 200 years after the time of Christ Our Lord. As a PHD in Theology, I have found truth beyond the Bible. You should look for God beyond books
Please forgive my skepticism, but if you were a Ph.D. in Theology, I would figure that you would be more versed in the apologetics of Scripture. It seems that you make God into who you want Him to be, into something that fits your needs. Please be careful of doing so. I believe we are on grounds of irreparable differences.
I dont make God into anything more than he or she really is. Have faith that God exists. Have faith that Jesus was our savior and son of God. However do not hide behind the Bible as the only proof of this. Look to gospels outside the bible. Even gospels such as the gospel of Judas recently discovered. These texts can provide powerful insight. I think we are on the grounds of you only knowing one collection of stories and using that to base faith on. This should not be the case.
If that is my fault; to stand firmly upon Scripture, to believe it as God's Word once-for-all delivered, then I unashamedly stand in my fault before you. I trust my soul and my life with those sacred words. This is what is meant when we are called to pisteuo (believe in) Christ. Disagree, call me naive, call me blind and closed minded if you will, but I will rest my whole being upon Christ, and upon His Word. I arrested in my faith.
Then let us be clear on this video. Gods word never has said anywhere that homosexuality was a sin. Sure, people can interpret it that way...but to claim that God is the creator and is perfect. God also created man in his image (referring) Then having people being born homosexual not having a choice. How is homosexuality wrong? I can also compare homosexuality to many animals. Chimpanzees for example have been known to be gay. Homosexuality is part of nature, nothing wrong with it, its different
For a Ph.D. in Theology, you lack extensive Biblical knowledge. When Paul brings the WHOLE world under condemnation before proceeding forward to the hope, redemption, reconciliation, and life found in Christ, (Romans 1-3), he includes homosexuality in the equation. Romans 1-3 primarily deals with our guilt before God, and need of grace. Furthermore Christ affirms marriage between man and woman (Matthew 19 and paralleled in Mark 10).
There is actually no mention of blatant homosexuality in the Bible with Gods word or by Jesus. People just see what they want to see. The Bible is interpretation. Hence why many sects of Christian faith have branched off and gone separate ways. To say homosexuality goes against the Christian faith is utter stupidity. There is no proof, only speculation on this matter. Ever think that maybe the affirmation of marriage with man and woman is only because that was the norm not because it's the only?
Seriously, you have NO biblical knowledge at all. Obviously you don't know the history behind Jesus either. He was never about the "norm." Look at His interaction with the woman at the well (John 4). Not only was she a woman of questionable reputation, but a Samaritan. The "norm" would never have been to show her kindness and mercy. Look at the lepers who Jesus touched and healed. The "norm" was never to touch a leper...
...If you seriously think that Jesus was about keeping with the norm, then you solidify your ignorance of biblical text. Likewise if you think that homosexuality is not condemned in Scripture you are likewise sadly mistaken (Romans 1-3). A lot of sects form and split because they want -like yourself- to view Scripture in light of their own desires. The cross is rugged and edged for a purpose, and none of us have the right to try to clean it up.
First off Romans 1-3 "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;" so that condemns homosexuality how? Nothing there condemns anything. Also, I think you need to get some facts straight before you tell me what I know about scripture. The Bible was not written by God nor by Jesus. The Bible is stories written MANY years after Jesus. If Jesus was never about the norm why is it so wrong that he could love a man?
PureIsJesus...that would would be Chapters 1-3, not Romans 1:3. Totally different. And the books in the Bible are not only written after Christ, but also over the course of approximately 1000 years prior as well.Written by kings, tax collectors, doctors, fishermen, in times of peace, war, feast, famine, etc. And the Bible is consistent.
Furthermore, I am firmly convinced of what 2 Peter 1:19-20 and 2 Timothy 3:16-17 have to say about Scripture.
And just to be clear. Most if not all stories of the old testament can be traced to Egypt and many other sources such as Sumerian Tablets.
For example Noah=epic of gilgamesh Christ = Horace arising from the dead after crucifixition for mans sins. Moses = sumerian legend of king Sargon--and the list goes on and on.
Crickets dude. I'm not even going down the road of parallelmania. That is a cop out people use to say "well these are all similar in type, so yours can't be true." Seriously, they have all been dealt with, and I am not running down that road. A bit of in depth reading will answer those problems for you.
And to be clear, its not a cop out. Hiding behind one book is a cop out for lack of faith. You seem to be scared that if you explore other books, other faiths, that you will stray off the path. I have found that the more I learned about other faiths, the more I saw connections, the more I could affirm my own beliefs.
You hide behind scripture as if it is the word of God himself. It is not. These books were written by man. True faith is sticking with God despite the evidence against him
You sound like one who has built an altar to the unknown God. Look to what Paul wrote on that.
I assure you, I have explored other paths. As I mentioned earlier, I'm a former practicing Neo-pagan myself, and I once HATED God and Scripture passionately. This is not some blind endeavor. This is what Christianity looks like. I am a Christian, and not a theist who creates God to be whatever I would like to envision Him to be.
historical writings other than the Bible , like Josephus . There is more historical facts (transcripts ) that Jesus was on earth than Caesar . Also , look at the Jewish people , name any other people who had their nation destroyed , were scattered over the whole world , lost their language and stayed dispersed for 2000 years , and just as was prophecied , were regathered , language restored and face enemies that were foretold . What are the odds ? just a few examples and there are many more .
they like to point out a Christian's past or present failing thinking that makes their sin less or ok . We're not going to be judged by how we measure up to others , but how we measure up to God's standard . And that is perfection and only God is perfect . That's why we need Christ to be our substitute . He took our punishment at the cross that we deserve , all of us . The wages of sin is death . But there is no condemnation to all who are in Christ Jesus . Ck out Romans 12:2 don't conform
What makes you think Jesus actually existed? I think there were several heroic figures that were magnificent about 2000 years ago and stories about them accumulated over time into a bundle of inspiring tales. Back then people had no answers for many things in life and belief in deities/spirits/ancestral spirits can easily fill that hole. I would love to see scientific evidence that Jesus existed. Right now I think he is a story figure based on several heroic men and women who inspires many.
What evidence do you ask for? Black and white clear as day, or evidence as required in a court of law? Evidence that takes reasonable doubt to the curb? Are you willing to even read and study upon the matter, or -respectfully- have you already decided on the matter? I am curious as to the serious extent upon which you are willing to see presented evidence.
In Reason I Trust. I don't believe in faeries, because I haven't seen one or seen pictures of it. I don't believe in poltergeists, because I haven't seen one. Same for gods and goddesses. Now, I do like that some people can draw strength from believing in things. But then often it turns sour as they start telling other people what to do based on what they believe their gods or goddesses intend.
Do you believe in the wind? Yes? How, you havent seen it. Maybe youve seen its effects or felt it though... and thats why I believe in God. No, I havent seen him, but Ive seen his effects and Ive felt Him all my life.
I do believe in wind and I have seen it , all you need is a doppler radar to see it. It can be quantified, measured and we know exactly where it comes from and even where it will be. Ghosts, spirits, gods and goddesses on the other hand can't be measured/quantified
Christians don't hate nonbelievers or judge them . The Bible says if we don't believe we're judged already . Christians mean it in love to share the good news . there is a sickness and I have the cure , it would be wrong not to offer it to someone who is dying from this sickness . It seems many nonbelievers hate Christians because they don't realize or are in denial that they are sick .
You are stating that the vast majority of the people on this planet are sick. That is a strong statement. Right now, a Hindu in India who was raised Hindu might be making the same statement as you: All non-Hindus will suffer in hell. Who is right? Also, if you are born in Saudi Arabia, there is a 99% chance you will be Muslim. if you are born in the USA then chances are you will be Christian. Religion tends to be a function of your environment, very much like a language.
Respectfully (<-I open with that because I think some of my responses may sound snide if I don't clarify the gentleness and respectfulness with which I respond.) do you then ask us to believe quietly, discard our faith, or superficially believe?
NReverend I think it is great that you draw strength from your belief system. I would say the same to the Hindu or the Muslim. I was merely pointing out to Yarekim that he called the vast majority of his fellow humans sick, just because they were born in another country/culture and thus believe in other gods/goddesses
as for Christians and what they believe , we are all sinners saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and His transforming power . but , we still fail and fall short . We are not the judge , God is . All I know is that anyone who knew me before would not believe there was any hope for me . I rejected Christians talking to me and thought just like many of you .
in the bible it says that all people that works on sabbath day must die, and that women is made to work for men because eve was the one who ate the fruit of knowledge first and got adam to do it afterwards, i've read it myself in a real bible, but christianity is wrom is my main point here
Tobbey222, you may have skimmed it, but you have not read it. Re-read your Genesis story. Adam was right there with Eve when she was deceived. He was there when she first ate of the fruit. Furthermore your estimation of what the Bible says regarding women shows a complete lack of understanding of Scriptural teaching.
God is love . And loved us while we were yet sinners . His love is shown in that He sent His Son to pay the sin debit of the world on a cruel cross . It's a gift that wasn't free , Christ suffered once for all . But as for any gift , it must be received . If anyone is interested you can read Romans 1:18 -2:16 , also , 1 Thessalonians 4:1-8 , Revelation 21:6-8 . There are more but these make it plain . Christ is the ONLY Hope . God bless
ahem well I repect your opinion I feel that it is one that I cannot nor will not let be the social norm forever. as A devout follower of Budda and his teachings, I feel that since I was born with this attraction and I do mean born with it as I have never felt attraction to the opposite sex. this video is better than most FAGS BURN IN HELL GHA! videos but it still feels wrong listening to what your saying.
at any rate, may your god bless you and spread good hope and love 4 you and your child.
I appreciate your honesty, and your respectful opposition. I don't mean this as a "fags burn in hell..." video, but as a statement that while I do believe this issue to be of sin, it is no different than any other sin, for which we need redemption.
I understand your sentiment. I was born with a desire to have sex outside the confines of marriage. I see women, and struggle with lust even though I am married. Should I give in to the temptation I was born with? I don't think you heard the point of my video, and neither do I think you have an understanding of the Scriptures with regards to sin. Either believe it, or don't. Scripture is clear on this matter, and it is hard to say this because of what it costs me to say this.
On a side note. The Bible was not given by god. Its not "gods word" its a group of stories told over time and CHOSEN by man to be in a collective book. There are many gospels that are out there that have not been included in the bible because they clearly contradict what modern Christianity has to teach us. Let us be straight, the Bible is not the direct word of god, but rather teachings that we accept to be what God wanted. We actually have nothing to prove God really exists. its called Faith.
Well here is my disagreement with what you said. I really dont agree with a lot of things, but I will ask you something. Do you think that humans should not sin? Because...thats what makes us separate from Jesus. If we were not sinners, then we would be the sons of god ourselves..but alas we are not. We are sinners, that is natural. So homosexuality, if it IS a sin...I dont think it is. But if it is...how is that "unnatural" Sin is natural for humans. We sin.
This not only a great question, but the greatest yet asked here. Should we not sin? No, but we are fallen, we are with a sin nature, it is indeed natural for us to sin. The question is, do we give up the fight? Those of us broken and brought to the throne of grace, are we not to strive to be conformed to the image of Christ? Even the best of us are wretchedly lost without Christ, and even the best of us are given to some sin. But does this mean that we are to simply give over all to that sin?
There is grace and forgiveness in Christ, but this does not mean that we are not still to deny our lusts, our desires, the sins that please us most, daily pick up our cross, and follow Christ.
I am agnostic, meaning i support no sides. i am on the fence between believing neither, just nuetral, im saying i dont hate the people, i just dont like the beliefs, im not not trying to argue just make my point
outa all religions i side most with christianity, although i had churches say that if you listen to rock music you worship the devil, and i like rock metal, i dont worship the devil, or i knew a guy that was slighty retarded and church banned him so, that is why im nuetral but thanks for being so nice, i have people yell at me or get angry
Things get taken out of context all the time, which is why I am a hardliner about pointing back to the proper exegetical interpretation of Scripture. This is why you find groups that do the things you mentioned.
No problem. You weren't attacking, you weren't attempting to be rude. You respectfully made your point, and I appreciate that. I think we are too often quick to anger, and too slow to listen.
I'm Christian, I don't believe homosexuality is a sin because, it isn't. I could go crazy on my reasons why but I'll let someone respond to me first before I go all out.
Perhaps eduation is the key. I see it from both sides. I would like to say at the end of th eday I am without fault, But I know that its false, we cant say ( just because we dont have the same faith as Mr Brewer that he is a quack because his faith points to our lack there of) Lets not get cought up is sexuallity but more so how we can thrive as brothers and sisters in harmony if nothing else. Just because I have a strong feeling for something doesnt make it right or wrong.
"Christians" are an incredibly mixed up people, you have contradicted yourself in several different ways. you believe gayness is wrong but you have gay friends. i am most certainly straight and also a nihilist but i don't like what you've said here.
your god is perceived to love all his children, your god perceived to forgive and forgive again. your message in this video is mighty confusing. maybe you should try to write it down before you push the record button.
I think lying is wrong, but I have friends who have lied. Heck, I've lied many times in my life. By your logic I shouldn't be friends with them, and hate myself. Your argument of my "self-contradiction" is foolish at best.
What do you mean by "love all his children..."? Do you suggest that I believe in a God who is happy with people doing whatever makes them happy? Then you suggest I follow a God who is okay with rape and murder. Consider what you are saying.
Yes, but if you read the rest of John 8, He tells the woman that her sins are forgiven and to "go and sin no more..." He recognizes her sin, He addresses her sin, He calls sin, sin, and pours His grace and forgiveness upon her.
While you may know the verses that suit your desires, I doubt strongly that you understand the depths of its theology, the richness of its history, or understand what it means when one says, the very dust of THIS Book is gold.
we're bordering dangerously on turning me back into the person i've worked so hard to not be. that being said; enjoy being wrong the rest of your useless and probably sheltered and closeted life.
Jesus said: I give you a NEW commandment: Love one another. As I have loved you, you should also love one another. John 13: 34-35. As someone who believes in God and is gay I know God made me and expects me to be a good person. I have no fears of meeting my maker whenever that will be as long as I treat people with love and respect. I'll let him decide about how good a person I was, and no one else. The world would be a better place if everyone followed the new commandment jesus gave us. Peace.
people are offended because they don't want God or anyone else telling them want they want to do is wrong . they want to be their on god , make their own rules . they steal so it's ok to take what doesn't belong to them . only 1 - 2% of the population have homosexual tendencies , not 10 - 20% . the second commandment says we are not to make a god to suite ourself . God is God and we're not God .
@yarekim5932 I don't believe in gods or goddesses, spirits or ghost, demigods and poltergeists, so I have no desire to be any of them simply because they don't exist
no one is born gay . there is not a gay gene . but there is a genetic predisposition to sin , it came from Adam , that's why the Messiah is the sinless Son of God . God is His Father . All of us fall short of God's standard - HOLINESS .
Quite the opposite. There is plenty of proof that is genetic: Countless examples of identical twins that were separated at birth, raised by different families in different cultures/countries and both were gay. People are born gay, whether you like it or not. Do you really think that somebody wakes up one morning at age 16 and decides "let's make my life a lot harder! Today I will be gay lol.
I think Reverend Brewer makes it very clear that he loves his homosexual firends. So Im a bit lost when I read that its not about love. Me makes it clear that Christ does indeed love us. For it was His love that he sent his only Son. If we object or not, We at least owe it to ourselves to read and educate what a certain faith stands for. We cant just make statements on emotion or how we were taught or what makes us feel good. People seek something. I am actually not offended by this video
@Justice4themeek It is such a cliche that racist people say "..but I have black friends to absolve themselves from their disrespect towards their black brothers and sisters. Similarly, a lot of fundamentalists will first judge gays (as in this video), then follow it up with "but I have gay friends".I am certainly not an expert on religion, but it is my understanding that religion should be about love and harmony, versus division and intolerance
Marc, I disagree with you about religion. But, these types of videos are not helpful in promoting the Christ in the Bible. I am sorry you have been exposed to so many non Christlike people. They seem to want to lift themselves up and not their Lord.
Then you heard not a word I said, and heard only what you wanted to hear. However, I can't be upset because earlier you stated to a member that you don't believe in gods, goddesses, and such. This makes our world views completely different. I believe in a God who created all things, to whom we must answer to.
Respectfully, I don't think that you can really say what religion should "be about" as you don't believe in deities behind religion.
@reverendmbrewer We do have very different world views. My license plate says "In Reason We trust", I think yours might be "In God we trust" :-). I feel comfortable basing my decisions on facts and it is very abstract to me to base decisions on interpretations of gods/goddesses etc. I have seen many people draw great strength from a belief system and that is very positive. One of my Hindu friends battled cancer and her Hindu belief helped her through it. Their gods/goddesses are so colorful too
You are right. In God I do trust. I respect your honesty, and I understand where you find offense. I would hope that we can disagree respectfully and without hard feelings. In order to have diversity, we must allow diversity.
I find your video offensive.You make me want to buy that bumper sticker that says "Dear God, protect me from your followers" . Why can't religions focus on love and acceptance and helping other people, why must they be an instrument of division and causing pain? This is not just for christianity, but also for most other faiths. I suggest making videos that help other people as opposed to hurt them, isn't that the christian thing to do to be loving, accepting and help others?
Respectfully, I believe this video was rather tame, gentle, and honest enough to face an issue which I think a lot of Christians are getting wrong. I'm honest enough to say that I believe homosexuality to be immoral, BUT I see it no different in the big picture of sin before God, and our need for Christ. I use the example of my friendships to demonstrate that I am not hung up on the sin, but love my brothers and sisters and treat them like anyone else. Where then, is the offense?
But to be fair, I've been told that smoking in general is immoral. I believe that to be utter nonsense, so I don't let it bother me. So I guess if there are those who are convinced that what they are doing is okay, why let what others have to say on the matter bother them? Of course that is also what I meant in that we all need a little thicker skin.
If you called me immoral because of actions I have taken,I'd be okay with that. But to call me immoral for how I was born,is identical to hating black people because they were born with another skin color. As you may know, scientists prove whether something is genetic or not by studying genetic traits in fraternal twins versus identical twins. If an identical twin is gay (regardless of raised seperately or not), the odds are overwhelming that the other is gay too. Less so with fraternal twins.
my only comment: everyone may think what they want, but just keep in mind that not everyone is christian or believes in (a) God. Many christians want to FORCE the rest of us to live by their lifestyle, something that isn't right! there should not be a christian agenda in politics!!
I see. School curriculum is not something that is put to votes in any case I've ever heard of. I had assumed you had meant voting with regard to marriage rights as has been the case in many states.
I understand, it was just an example I shot out. I did vote during the Proposition 8 fiasco. I voted in the affirmative because of what we saw happen in MA regarding schools and parents rights.
ID stands for "Intelligent Design." It would have been a more acceptable theory if the religious connotation was stripped from it. But due to its proponents and opposition, it came across more as a repackaged Genesis story for public schools.
To my knowledge nothing in text of proposition 8 mentioned anything to do with the laws surrounding education. It seems that if that were the concern then a more narrowly tailored law could be written regarding health education that does not create what some would argue is a second class citizenship.
You are right. In MA nothing was written into the law regarding education, yet after passing law granting homosexual marriage there was a school who defended a second grade teacher who read "The Two Princes" to his students. Lawsuits were filed, and essentially the courts told parents that they could not exempt their kids from that portion of class, keep their kids home, and the school can continue as it will...
...And that is where I take exception. I don't want my kid taught these things as "acceptable" in the school curriculum, I don't think that sort of thing belongs in schools (esp. with kids that young), and I don't think the courts should dictate what morals I should pass on to my child.
MA, in my opinion blew it for everyone else. I see passing "marriage laws" as a gateway for other issues.
On the issue of health education what specifically do you object to being addressed in the classroom? It's not as though educators are trying to or even capable of altering sexual orientation. To my knowledge the effort is to explain that there are couples of the same sex and they are no better or worse than anyone else - much as you yourself put it in your video.
The reason that many feel it needs to be addressed in class is the high rate of suicide among lgbt youth (related to bullying).
On health education, I guess that depends on our expectations. I would expect the basics. "This is what to expect from part 'a' and 'b' as your body develops. This is how to use a condom. These are some of the things you can contract from unprotected sex. Abstinence is the best form of protection. Etc..."
...There are also several failures we must recognize. I think that we, parents, have failed miserably in taking responsibility for our children. We should (as awkward as it may be) teach our children about sex, proper protection, the responsibilities of the matter, etc.
I also think we, parents, fail to teach our children tolerance and understanding. And I think a lot of my fellow Christians are likewise guilty under a false understanding of their faith...
...And of course that goes back to the Church. If we had more God fearing Bible believing pastors in the pulpit, instead of little boys wanting to play preacher, we wouldn't have some of the issues we do today because I believe that there is a largely religious drive behind it.
HOWEVER, at the early high school level, I think this needs to be addressed because of the failures. We need to teach understanding and tolerance. But we need to do so rightly...
And by that I mean that we must teach that it is okay to disagree and disapprove of homosexuality, but it is not right to give way to bullying and cruelty just because we disagree. We must be tolerant. We must show basic human compassion to one another.
But...kids are cruel. No matter how good a job we do in educating them, raising them, instructing them, etc., they can still be very cruel.
I completely agree that parents should be more proactive in teaching their children about health. The problem is that it is an uncomfortable topic and in many case parents are unwilling or unable, due to lack of education themselves, to teach their children with regard to this subject. This is why I personally feel that we do our youth a service by keeping health education in the classroom - especially in light of our HIV epidemic.
My problem is that it was taught to second graders. How early do we need to introduce (or encourage) sexuality in our kids. Why do we need to define them in that manner at so young. My daughter is five years old, and has no idea what sex is, what a boyfriend/girlfriend are, etc. She knows and sees fellow kids as playmates. Why do we need to disrupt that by throwing divisive things into their lives that they are not physically or mentally ready for?
I believe you're referring to the 'king and king' book that was read to second graders? This book created a bit of an uproar that I have trouble understanding - having looked at the book myself. There was nothing in this book that was in any way sexual.
In case you aren't familiar the book is about two princes that fall in love, which is similar to the many prince and princess stories that children at that age are read.
It wasn't an issue of it being sexually charged or not. From what I understand, it is exactly as you described it. Is that, however, the issue we want to press with children so young?
"Daddy, mommy! We read a book today where a prince and a prince get married!"
Now I have to fumble around to explain a mature concept to a child who isn't going to understand it. Why do we believe it isn't right. How do I explain it without her becoming mean.
In your previous comment you had expressed concern that the second graders were exposed to something that "introduced (or encouraged) sexuality" in them. I was just confused as to what you meant.
I guess I still don't understand the objection to the 'King and King' book that you have. I thought you misunderstood the book to be sexual, but as that's not the issue I'm lost. Mind elaborating?
The issue goes deeper than the story. It is an attempt to grab our children while they're young and push them into a direction of acceptance and embracing of the LGBT lifestyle. That is my issue, and that is the honesty of what is happening when we introduce such stories and concepts to young children. It is politicians and activists encroaching on our children undermining my parenting.
In doing so, we are introducing inappropriate subject matter to our kids.
Would you agree that the absence of any mention of couples of the same sex in the class room also sends a message -a message that these people aren't to be spoken of because there is something wrong with them?
What do you mean "embracing the lgbt lifestyle"? What do you mean by lifestyle?
First Part of My Answer: I don't think it sends a message at all. To say it does is an argument from silence, which is what those protesting Avatar were advocating about the movie. I would be interested in seeing if children even notice. The natural inclination of the human race is male/female which reflects the general world around us. Stories, fairy tales, etc., are going to incline that way. That is (for lack of a better description) simply normal behavioral patterns....
I tend to disagree. We live in a world full of family, friends, and neighbors who are lgbt and I think many of us are raised with the understanding that this is taboo. If it were not then the 'coming out' experience would not be necessary.
Does this guy really expect to be taken seriously?
m46279 4 weeks ago
Sorry for saying HOMOS didn't mean effence didn't have enough charecters to finish the word.
Ruhnezmei89 5 months ago
PART 2... Christians with homosexual thoughts should not consider themselves gay they should deny those thoughts and when they get them they should pray and read the word. And if they are not able to feel attraction for the opposite sex then they should be celibate. But I have heard of a gay guy who was not christian and married a woman because he fell in love with her. Their was only one woman he ever felt attraction to and it was her because he loved her. How do you think homos should live.
Ruhnezmei89 5 months ago
PART 1 I really liked this video. It's hard to find other christians who believe the same way as me. So do you think gay's should try and fight their sexuality and either force them self to be straight or be celibate. Or do you think whatever you know your sinning all sins are the same just keep doing it because I know as a Christian I try not to lie and such but I'm human and I fail Jesus picks me back up. I believe people (christians) with homosexual thoughts... continued in part 2
Ruhnezmei89 5 months ago
Yeah a loving father sharing the fumes of his oversized, erected cancer stick with the whole family. I'm surprised the hot air coming out of ur mouth didn't ignite from the cigar and blow up your ignorant butt.
TruAgape123 5 months ago
Are you fucking serious? you're sitting there smoking a big ass cigar distroying your lungs and raising your chances for oral cancer and you have the nerve to talk about whats rightous and whats not?
taekiun 5 months ago
what is god??????????????????? YOU ARE GOD. search deep within your self. stop relying on a "holy" book the inquisition translated and setup years ago. the psychedelic experience will fail to be recognized, but is a prominent truth
rywire90 6 months ago
Michael, you the (MAN) & i agree with you totally....stand your groud !!!
raytube123456 8 months ago
the fact that you are smoking a massive cigar and constantly air punching towards the camera and saying "wapow" makes it very hard to take you seriously
sincerely
sane people
AmericanRoyalty1 9 months ago
@AmericanRoyalty1 I'm surprised that anyone takes me seriously at all; with or without the air punching. It's been a year though, and I haven't done much air punching since then. I wonder if that is what has earned me some credibility?
reverendmbrewer 9 months ago
@reverendmbrewer - Well, I respect your opinion, however, you should investigate what the word natural means. I assume you meant irregular or regular?
Also, I must ask what parts of the bible you truly believe and what parts you don't? I suggest with confidence you do not support the beating etiquette of a slave.
And lastly, why/how is homosexuality secularly wrong without using your religious 'opinion'...?
aquatix 8 months ago
@reverendmbrewer everything you said was %100 correct I'm Christian also. It's amazing how Jesus died for our sins anyone can go to heaven it doesn't matter how heavy a sinner you are gay or not. I'm a sinner and so is everyone else If you're gay that's okay to me God is the one to judge not I, and ignore the dislikes man It's alright there's many people out there who are more ignorant than the book burning Christians abortion bombers we're not ones to judge god is God wants us to help not hurt
rangu66 11 months ago
I agree as a fellow Christian that homosexual sex is no better or worse than an other fornication. The sin of adultury is perhaps worse as it involves not only your own person but breaking the covenant of marriage thus your spouse's promise under god to you, and often a married person has children and thus your sin would concern to them as well. I have fornicated in my life and not immune to sin, it is the least I can do to have a christan/brotherly forgiving attitude toward other sinners.
thedemonnemo 11 months ago
@thedemonnemo Well said.
reverendmbrewer 11 months ago
@thedemonnemo - It's very dangerous to view sin as something that is 'metaphorically' passed down through offspring. In fact, the most dangerous thought a human can possess is to know the mind of god and what god expects out of humanity...
aquatix 8 months ago
@aquatix I did not mean to imply that somehow children carry their parents' burden of sin. Rather I was trying to say that the children of an adulterer are very effected by extra-marital affairs and the divorce that often occurs as a result. Thanks for pointing out the "loophole" in my vague statement, I'm happy to have a chance to clearify the matter.
thedemonnemo 8 months ago
@thedemonnemo - Oh, ok. After reading it again, it was much clearer. Thank you. And I agree with this...
aquatix 8 months ago
thats a pretty phalic cigar your sucking so regularly on. all the prayers in the world cant weigh down your light feet sweety.
coniferofbutt 11 months ago
Comment removed
david940811 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
God does NOT exist!
david940811 11 months ago
Wasn't God gay himself?
SaulColtof 1 year ago
@SaulColtof Seek the Scriptures. If you still disbelieve, then you can ask Him yourself when you face Him on your appointed day.
reverendmbrewer 11 months ago
@reverendmbrewer ok, i will try to talk to god, but since im 25 years old i dont believe in fairy tales anymore... but can i ask you something? i am just curious... so im an atheist, i sin every day, maybe even every hour of the day, but what is going to happen to me now? am i not going to heaven? am i going to hell? is god going to punish me?
SaulColtof 11 months ago
@SaulColtof What is going to happen to you now? Like this moment? I have no idea. You may go on to lead a happy life. Still you will have to answer to God one day. If you die outside of Christ, you will face God bearing the weight of your own sins. Not even your best deeds will save you for they, as written in Isaiah 64:6, are as filthy rags before God. You will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 20-21). However, repent and believe, and you will be reconciled to God through Christ (John 3).
reverendmbrewer 11 months ago
@reverendmbrewer but when i face god, will i be in heaven, hell, an immaginary world? this is quite unclear to me, since i have never experienced it. this is the reason why i ask you, because you seem to have a lot of knowledge about it. then i have another question for you... this knowledge i just talked about, is it based on experience? a book (the bible for example)? did god tell you?
SaulColtof 11 months ago
@SaulColtof I see what you're getting at. I am not going to get into the Atheist v. Christian debate because it is useless. I have faith in what the Bible teaches. If you really want to know why people would trust the Bible at all, then I suggest you look into the apologetics of the Bible -how it comes to us, how it was put together, the sciences of higher and lower textual criticism, etc. Then make your own decision. Otherwise, I don't think any answer I offer will satisfy you.
reverendmbrewer 11 months ago
@reverendmbrewer this wasnt meant as a debate, these comments were just an attempt to open your eyes. in this video you also talk about the gay community nagging about no gays in avatar, but dont you think you nag a little to much about gay people? just let them live in the way they want to live, and if it bothers you, just ignore it, grow a little thicker skin. oh and your answer extremely satisfies me... your answers just show that you are a bit of an ignorant person...
SaulColtof 11 months ago
@SaulColtof As you will.
reverendmbrewer 11 months ago
@reverendmbrewer hahah youre a weird fucker i have to tell you!
SaulColtof 11 months ago
Sorry to post twice, but I just realised something.
All the christians ive seen, who go off on huge tangents about nomosexuality and why its unforgivable blah blah blah, ive always thought that they can't be doing "God's" (i'm athiest, sorry) work because one of his main teaching is to love. U are the first person I've seen who, if there is a god, is following all his teachings, sticking to a moral code but still loving everybody. That's pretty impressive :)
bobothebearguy 1 year ago
@bobothebearguy I have been forgiven much, so much more do I desire to love rightly the God who saved a wretch like me. My job is not throw stones and demand anyone to follow my morality, but to proclaim the Gospel. Christ who died for our sins and was resurrected for our Salvation. I'm not looking to change you or anyone, but to share the message that Christ has reconciled those who believe to God. Much more I hope to encourage all who claim Christ to do the same.
reverendmbrewer 1 year ago
@reverendmbrewer I'm not going to convert any time soon, nor am i going to change my beliefs on homosexuality, but I still think your doing the right thing here. You have the right to share you're beliefs and the way you do is admirable. I thank you and respect you for that.
bobothebearguy 1 year ago
@bobothebearguy Thank you. I think this is the most civil experience I've had regarding this issue. Usually I get bombarded with all kinds of anger because of my stance. No matter how tolerant I am, and how peaceable I am regarding the matter, I usually get much hate. Thank you for your understanding as well. :-)
reverendmbrewer 1 year ago
@reverendmbrewer Yes thank you for being so understanding. I have no wish to change my beliefs, and I disagree with yours, but you have the right to say what you think, and the way you do it is admirable. I thank and respect you for that.
bobothebearguy 1 year ago
I disagree with u, but i like that ur not going crazy or anything.... ur not really a big homophobic ranting...... person or anything, and i respect that. We can agree to disagree :)
bobothebearguy 1 year ago
@bobothebearguy I am okay with that. Not looking to change you, just share the Biblical perspective and proclaim the Gospel.
reverendmbrewer 1 year ago
do u feel that smoking is not offensive to ur body which is a temple of the Holy Spirit? im not tryna start a fight just asking..
patriciacarrasco 1 year ago
@patriciacarrasco No ma'am. And you're taking that verse out of context. Read it in relation to the rest of the text.
reverendmbrewer 11 months ago
I agree with you. Just thought Id say that. I wasnt so sure about were you would go but I kept watching and I totally agree.
slocorini 1 year ago
@slocorini I appreciate that. Thanks for bearing with me.
reverendmbrewer 11 months ago
is a common mistake to attribute the origin of Christian homophobia:
just read Leviticus 18:22
homosexuals should not accuse Christ.
he NEVER said ANYTHING about it;
he said he came to SAVE ... not to judge.
Moses sent to KILL homosexuals. (I disagree)
the true creator of homophobia was MOSES.
oricalco 1 year ago
If you are a citizen of the kingdom of God, and if you are His ambassador to this planet, then you do not have a personal opinion. The correct response is always this. "My kings position on this subject is "thus". as written in the constitution (Bible). An ambassador has NO OPINION!
yeshua4U 1 year ago
LOL.. i think girl's part are grody.. however despite how i personally feel about the whole, you know someone being heterosexual..Yes, i will be the first to admit and confess i find it unnatural coz im not a pussy(or guns for lesb) lover.. LOL! that was very thoughful of you towards the glbt peeps coz some christian might wanna use Ezekiel 44:20 literally to condemn "bald-uality"... just LOL! God bless you brotha! cigar is naturally biblical.. =)
mariatinaza 1 year ago
*great and refreshing to hear someone speak calmly and without insane hate about their point of view. As a lesbian and an atheist, I of course disagree with you, but it's nice to find someone to disagree with that doesn't scream and/or cause bodily harm, as I'm sure your gay friends can tell you.
AyashiNoCeres729 2 years ago
How do you say it's unnatural when it is? Homosexuality has been observed in more than two dozen species, so if you believe in creation (even though that silly science concept has already proved that crazy notion of evolution), how to justify that? And how can you say you don't judge homosexuals and love your gay friends when you think these terrible things about LGBT people? And besides the Bible, do you have any argument whatsoever against homosexuality? Also, I want to add that I think it's
AyashiNoCeres729 2 years ago
Thank you for at least trying to be tolerant, but I think you leave much to be desired. If you want to tell your kids homosexuality is wrong, that's fine. But when you vote to provent people form having the same rights as you that is bigoted. You do not have to like what homosexuals do, but if you want to be tolerant then you need to treat them equally. I don't like what christains do, I think its an immoral faith, but I would never ever vote on a law to make you else equal then anyone else.
fireflygirl246 2 years ago
You think to much by the laws of the bible, which is a book that is 2000 year old. The bible was written by people who had very strict 'laws' then.
Try to realise that those days are over and that god means "LOVE" in any way. Not a human being...just cosmic love.
By the way...I think you're a very nice person and you're a good person. But don't forget the cosmic laws, which are also called "god'. A god doesn't judge, it's the people who judge and then say they use gods words or the bible.
xanadu500 2 years ago
What your saying is that your against it, but you're not one to blow it out of proportion. Amirite?
weraslolreeee 2 years ago
Please google "A Letter to Louise" and read that letter on any website which carries it. As well, please watch the movie "Prayers for Bobby," starring Sigourney Weaver. I believe that each of these might be a valuable resource concerning the issues you raise. In all sincerity I ask that you do this.
gerrypipe 2 years ago
You're not using the word of god, you're using the words of the bible. Which was probably a bullshit book. You are pretty stupid...
RscforeverG 2 years ago
Thanks for the love. God bless.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
Also since you enjoy the bible quotes so much. Do you also believe DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21, LEVITICUS 18:19, MARK 12:18-27, DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
To get the facts straight. If you honestly study the Bible. The authors NEVER condemn nor accept homosexuality as we know it today.
I really think you read too much into the text looking for answers that are not there.
Playing devils advocate here. You may know wording of text, but meaning has seemingly passed you by.
PureIsJesus 2 years ago
Well, then let us discuss the passages your presented and their meanings. This will be a multiple part reply, so bear with me.
Earlier you boasted of a Ph.D. in Theology. Your questions, and approach to Scripture leads me to believe that you are either a) lying, b) purchased your Ph.D. online, or c) rushed through your Doctorate with a chip on your shoulder. So let us proceed with the texts at hand...
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
You brought up a verse dealing with uncleanness (Lev. 18:19), a passage dealing with adultery and God's demand of sexual purity (Deut. 22:13-21), a passage that dealing with possibly cutting off one's ability to have children (lineage, heritage, etc.)(Deut. 25:11-12), and a passage where Christ points out the straining of gnats, and misinterpretation of the law by the religious elite (Mark 12:18-27)....
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
First the Law (Lev. - Deut.). The Law was heavy upon the people of Israel. God was calling them to holiness, and He meant it in the most strict manner. Things deemed evil were not to be tolerated. They were called to perfection. But perfection wasn't possible, this is why there were sacrifices to cover known sins, sins of omitting, unknowns sins, peace offerings, praise, etc. These were signs of grace and forgiveness...
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
(LAW CONT'D) ...signs of the coming Christ. The law was heavy, and called...demanded...for the people to love God with all they were, and in doing so, His law would come naturally (Deut. 30). But we fail to see this when we want to show how cruel God was. Stoning! Absurd! Right? But that is the standard we have to meet, utter perfection, to be worthy of coming to the Father. The Law revealed the radical...
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
(LAW CONT'D)...life we had to live. A life that loved God above everything (father, mother, wife, children, even self, etc.) and cannot tolerate anything unclean. The sacrifices and options (such as the ability to divorce a woman quietly instead of putting her to death -Duet. 24, Matt. 1) of grace are missed by many readers. Symbols and foreshadows of Christ and the grace and forgiveness He brings...
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
(LAW CONT'D)...You see the Law reveals the standard of God, and reveals are inability to meet the requirements of the Law. It both points to our need of a Savior and to the Savior Himself (Col. 2). And that Savior is Christ who fulfilled the Law (Romans 8) and in whom we are declared justified by our faith in Him (2 Cor. 5:20-10), which is a gift of God's grace (Eph. 2)...
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
(LAW CONT'D)...the law is radically demanding. It calls us out and separates us to God, and demands holiness which we cannot meet. "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved..." (Eph. 2:4-5)
Christ was our propitiation, for those who believe, and reconciled us to God...
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
Second, in Mark 12:18-19 we have Jesus who explains to the religious leaders of the day that they have strained gnats and missed the point and meaning of the Law. They have missed the point. They have missed that it is about loving God who desires mercy over sacrifice (Hos. 6, Matt. 9, Matt. 12).
It is easy to pull out painful sounding verses, and make Scripture say what you want for it to say. It is easy to take the Word out of context. That is why I am strict about proper exegesis.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
...Your focus is on homosexuality, yet mine was that of sin, all sin, even sins we tolerate and respect. It points to our guilt before God and our need for God's mercy, grace, and compassion to save us, for we cannot justify ourselves before God. This has been my whole point, but all that most anyone heard was "homosexual."
GRACE! That is what this is all about. The Redeemer and Reconciler and Shepherd who laid down His life for His sheep, that we might have LIFE in Him.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
And alike, it is also easy to find versus that suit your needs and sound good. The Bible is what it is, simple a moral guideline. It was written in such vague terms that those who read it constantly yet don't properly take into account the possibility of false text can be fooled. I suggest instead of hiding behind the lines of text you take a religion course that takes a non bias approach. Your faith may be strengthened or shattered, but I guarantee you will learn a lot more than you know now.
PureIsJesus 2 years ago
I'm a former practicing Neo-pagan with a few comparative religion course under my belt. My job demands comparative religious studies. I have looked at apologetics and the various opposing claims to Scriptures.
Do not know consider what I do as hiding behind Scripture, but placing my faith in them wholly. Without a second thought, I believe them to be God's Word to man. I do not get to pick and choose what I like, I don't get to define it to my own terms. This is what Christianity looks like.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
So here is something to think about. There is nothing in the Bible about Jesus during teen years. We know he was a carpenter. To become a carpenter, cobbler, or other craftsman, they were required to apprentice under a master in those days. It was also common practice for that master to have homosexual relations with the apprentice. Jesus may have had gay sex... On top of that, he never married and had friends that were all men which he "loved" Jesus may have been gay...
PureIsJesus 2 years ago
Not only is that as theologically off base as you can possibly be, it also neglects that the Father said concerning His Son: "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased." Christ was without sin. " (Matthew 3).
Christ was perfect, without sin, blameless before God. (Romans 8) He did what we could not, that we might be saved by grace through faith. (Ephesians 2).
You really could not be anymore off base in your claim.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
If you read my other post. You should realize now that everything is speculation. The Bible is not gods direct word. In fact...most of the Gospels were written by people far after the time of Christ. If you have played the telephone game. You would know that many things are poorly translated many years past. Mathew Mark, L and J were all written some 200 years after the time of Christ Our Lord. As a PHD in Theology, I have found truth beyond the Bible. You should look for God beyond books
PureIsJesus 2 years ago
Please forgive my skepticism, but if you were a Ph.D. in Theology, I would figure that you would be more versed in the apologetics of Scripture. It seems that you make God into who you want Him to be, into something that fits your needs. Please be careful of doing so. I believe we are on grounds of irreparable differences.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
I dont make God into anything more than he or she really is. Have faith that God exists. Have faith that Jesus was our savior and son of God. However do not hide behind the Bible as the only proof of this. Look to gospels outside the bible. Even gospels such as the gospel of Judas recently discovered. These texts can provide powerful insight. I think we are on the grounds of you only knowing one collection of stories and using that to base faith on. This should not be the case.
PureIsJesus 2 years ago
If that is my fault; to stand firmly upon Scripture, to believe it as God's Word once-for-all delivered, then I unashamedly stand in my fault before you. I trust my soul and my life with those sacred words. This is what is meant when we are called to pisteuo (believe in) Christ. Disagree, call me naive, call me blind and closed minded if you will, but I will rest my whole being upon Christ, and upon His Word. I arrested in my faith.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
Then let us be clear on this video. Gods word never has said anywhere that homosexuality was a sin. Sure, people can interpret it that way...but to claim that God is the creator and is perfect. God also created man in his image (referring) Then having people being born homosexual not having a choice. How is homosexuality wrong? I can also compare homosexuality to many animals. Chimpanzees for example have been known to be gay. Homosexuality is part of nature, nothing wrong with it, its different
PureIsJesus 2 years ago
For a Ph.D. in Theology, you lack extensive Biblical knowledge. When Paul brings the WHOLE world under condemnation before proceeding forward to the hope, redemption, reconciliation, and life found in Christ, (Romans 1-3), he includes homosexuality in the equation. Romans 1-3 primarily deals with our guilt before God, and need of grace. Furthermore Christ affirms marriage between man and woman (Matthew 19 and paralleled in Mark 10).
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
There is actually no mention of blatant homosexuality in the Bible with Gods word or by Jesus. People just see what they want to see. The Bible is interpretation. Hence why many sects of Christian faith have branched off and gone separate ways. To say homosexuality goes against the Christian faith is utter stupidity. There is no proof, only speculation on this matter. Ever think that maybe the affirmation of marriage with man and woman is only because that was the norm not because it's the only?
PureIsJesus 2 years ago
Seriously, you have NO biblical knowledge at all. Obviously you don't know the history behind Jesus either. He was never about the "norm." Look at His interaction with the woman at the well (John 4). Not only was she a woman of questionable reputation, but a Samaritan. The "norm" would never have been to show her kindness and mercy. Look at the lepers who Jesus touched and healed. The "norm" was never to touch a leper...
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
...If you seriously think that Jesus was about keeping with the norm, then you solidify your ignorance of biblical text. Likewise if you think that homosexuality is not condemned in Scripture you are likewise sadly mistaken (Romans 1-3). A lot of sects form and split because they want -like yourself- to view Scripture in light of their own desires. The cross is rugged and edged for a purpose, and none of us have the right to try to clean it up.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago 2
First off Romans 1-3 "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;" so that condemns homosexuality how? Nothing there condemns anything. Also, I think you need to get some facts straight before you tell me what I know about scripture. The Bible was not written by God nor by Jesus. The Bible is stories written MANY years after Jesus. If Jesus was never about the norm why is it so wrong that he could love a man?
PureIsJesus 2 years ago
PureIsJesus...that would would be Chapters 1-3, not Romans 1:3. Totally different. And the books in the Bible are not only written after Christ, but also over the course of approximately 1000 years prior as well.Written by kings, tax collectors, doctors, fishermen, in times of peace, war, feast, famine, etc. And the Bible is consistent.
Furthermore, I am firmly convinced of what 2 Peter 1:19-20 and 2 Timothy 3:16-17 have to say about Scripture.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
And just to be clear. Most if not all stories of the old testament can be traced to Egypt and many other sources such as Sumerian Tablets.
For example Noah=epic of gilgamesh Christ = Horace arising from the dead after crucifixition for mans sins. Moses = sumerian legend of king Sargon--and the list goes on and on.
PureIsJesus 2 years ago
Crickets dude. I'm not even going down the road of parallelmania. That is a cop out people use to say "well these are all similar in type, so yours can't be true." Seriously, they have all been dealt with, and I am not running down that road. A bit of in depth reading will answer those problems for you.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
And to be clear, its not a cop out. Hiding behind one book is a cop out for lack of faith. You seem to be scared that if you explore other books, other faiths, that you will stray off the path. I have found that the more I learned about other faiths, the more I saw connections, the more I could affirm my own beliefs.
You hide behind scripture as if it is the word of God himself. It is not. These books were written by man. True faith is sticking with God despite the evidence against him
PureIsJesus 2 years ago
You sound like one who has built an altar to the unknown God. Look to what Paul wrote on that.
I assure you, I have explored other paths. As I mentioned earlier, I'm a former practicing Neo-pagan myself, and I once HATED God and Scripture passionately. This is not some blind endeavor. This is what Christianity looks like. I am a Christian, and not a theist who creates God to be whatever I would like to envision Him to be.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
i think your equally as moronic as donny the retard, are you coming out of the closet and admitting that you lick windows?
3nigmaful 2 years ago
historical writings other than the Bible , like Josephus . There is more historical facts (transcripts ) that Jesus was on earth than Caesar . Also , look at the Jewish people , name any other people who had their nation destroyed , were scattered over the whole world , lost their language and stayed dispersed for 2000 years , and just as was prophecied , were regathered , language restored and face enemies that were foretold . What are the odds ? just a few examples and there are many more .
yarekim5932 2 years ago
they like to point out a Christian's past or present failing thinking that makes their sin less or ok . We're not going to be judged by how we measure up to others , but how we measure up to God's standard . And that is perfection and only God is perfect . That's why we need Christ to be our substitute . He took our punishment at the cross that we deserve , all of us . The wages of sin is death . But there is no condemnation to all who are in Christ Jesus . Ck out Romans 12:2 don't conform
yarekim5932 2 years ago
What makes you think Jesus actually existed? I think there were several heroic figures that were magnificent about 2000 years ago and stories about them accumulated over time into a bundle of inspiring tales. Back then people had no answers for many things in life and belief in deities/spirits/ancestral spirits can easily fill that hole. I would love to see scientific evidence that Jesus existed. Right now I think he is a story figure based on several heroic men and women who inspires many.
PipeFriendCHS 2 years ago
What evidence do you ask for? Black and white clear as day, or evidence as required in a court of law? Evidence that takes reasonable doubt to the curb? Are you willing to even read and study upon the matter, or -respectfully- have you already decided on the matter? I am curious as to the serious extent upon which you are willing to see presented evidence.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
In Reason I Trust. I don't believe in faeries, because I haven't seen one or seen pictures of it. I don't believe in poltergeists, because I haven't seen one. Same for gods and goddesses. Now, I do like that some people can draw strength from believing in things. But then often it turns sour as they start telling other people what to do based on what they believe their gods or goddesses intend.
PipeFriendCHS 2 years ago
Do you believe in the wind? Yes? How, you havent seen it. Maybe youve seen its effects or felt it though... and thats why I believe in God. No, I havent seen him, but Ive seen his effects and Ive felt Him all my life.
jsmryan 2 years ago
I do believe in wind and I have seen it , all you need is a doppler radar to see it. It can be quantified, measured and we know exactly where it comes from and even where it will be. Ghosts, spirits, gods and goddesses on the other hand can't be measured/quantified
PipeFriendCHS 2 years ago
Christians don't hate nonbelievers or judge them . The Bible says if we don't believe we're judged already . Christians mean it in love to share the good news . there is a sickness and I have the cure , it would be wrong not to offer it to someone who is dying from this sickness . It seems many nonbelievers hate Christians because they don't realize or are in denial that they are sick .
yarekim5932 2 years ago
You are stating that the vast majority of the people on this planet are sick. That is a strong statement. Right now, a Hindu in India who was raised Hindu might be making the same statement as you: All non-Hindus will suffer in hell. Who is right? Also, if you are born in Saudi Arabia, there is a 99% chance you will be Muslim. if you are born in the USA then chances are you will be Christian. Religion tends to be a function of your environment, very much like a language.
PipeFriendCHS 2 years ago
Respectfully (<-I open with that because I think some of my responses may sound snide if I don't clarify the gentleness and respectfulness with which I respond.) do you then ask us to believe quietly, discard our faith, or superficially believe?
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
NReverend I think it is great that you draw strength from your belief system. I would say the same to the Hindu or the Muslim. I was merely pointing out to Yarekim that he called the vast majority of his fellow humans sick, just because they were born in another country/culture and thus believe in other gods/goddesses
PipeFriendCHS 2 years ago
as for Christians and what they believe , we are all sinners saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and His transforming power . but , we still fail and fall short . We are not the judge , God is . All I know is that anyone who knew me before would not believe there was any hope for me . I rejected Christians talking to me and thought just like many of you .
yarekim5932 2 years ago
in the bible it says that all people that works on sabbath day must die, and that women is made to work for men because eve was the one who ate the fruit of knowledge first and got adam to do it afterwards, i've read it myself in a real bible, but christianity is wrom is my main point here
tobbey222 2 years ago
Tobbey222, you may have skimmed it, but you have not read it. Re-read your Genesis story. Adam was right there with Eve when she was deceived. He was there when she first ate of the fruit. Furthermore your estimation of what the Bible says regarding women shows a complete lack of understanding of Scriptural teaching.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
God is love . And loved us while we were yet sinners . His love is shown in that He sent His Son to pay the sin debit of the world on a cruel cross . It's a gift that wasn't free , Christ suffered once for all . But as for any gift , it must be received . If anyone is interested you can read Romans 1:18 -2:16 , also , 1 Thessalonians 4:1-8 , Revelation 21:6-8 . There are more but these make it plain . Christ is the ONLY Hope . God bless
yarekim5932 2 years ago
ahem well I repect your opinion I feel that it is one that I cannot nor will not let be the social norm forever. as A devout follower of Budda and his teachings, I feel that since I was born with this attraction and I do mean born with it as I have never felt attraction to the opposite sex. this video is better than most FAGS BURN IN HELL GHA! videos but it still feels wrong listening to what your saying.
at any rate, may your god bless you and spread good hope and love 4 you and your child.
TheTrueAngelofHate 2 years ago
I appreciate your honesty, and your respectful opposition. I don't mean this as a "fags burn in hell..." video, but as a statement that while I do believe this issue to be of sin, it is no different than any other sin, for which we need redemption.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
Why judge people for the way they were born? Jesus would not do so. May God forgive you
ChristLovesYouAll 2 years ago
I understand your sentiment. I was born with a desire to have sex outside the confines of marriage. I see women, and struggle with lust even though I am married. Should I give in to the temptation I was born with? I don't think you heard the point of my video, and neither do I think you have an understanding of the Scriptures with regards to sin. Either believe it, or don't. Scripture is clear on this matter, and it is hard to say this because of what it costs me to say this.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
On a side note. The Bible was not given by god. Its not "gods word" its a group of stories told over time and CHOSEN by man to be in a collective book. There are many gospels that are out there that have not been included in the bible because they clearly contradict what modern Christianity has to teach us. Let us be straight, the Bible is not the direct word of god, but rather teachings that we accept to be what God wanted. We actually have nothing to prove God really exists. its called Faith.
Xrposiedon 2 years ago
Well here is my disagreement with what you said. I really dont agree with a lot of things, but I will ask you something. Do you think that humans should not sin? Because...thats what makes us separate from Jesus. If we were not sinners, then we would be the sons of god ourselves..but alas we are not. We are sinners, that is natural. So homosexuality, if it IS a sin...I dont think it is. But if it is...how is that "unnatural" Sin is natural for humans. We sin.
Xrposiedon 2 years ago
This not only a great question, but the greatest yet asked here. Should we not sin? No, but we are fallen, we are with a sin nature, it is indeed natural for us to sin. The question is, do we give up the fight? Those of us broken and brought to the throne of grace, are we not to strive to be conformed to the image of Christ? Even the best of us are wretchedly lost without Christ, and even the best of us are given to some sin. But does this mean that we are to simply give over all to that sin?
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
There is grace and forgiveness in Christ, but this does not mean that we are not still to deny our lusts, our desires, the sins that please us most, daily pick up our cross, and follow Christ.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
I hate religion, i think it is just all bullshit, atheism to, its hope without hope
501joshb 2 years ago
501joshb,
If you hate religion, and atheism, what do you believe?
Blessings,
Michael
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
I am agnostic, meaning i support no sides. i am on the fence between believing neither, just nuetral, im saying i dont hate the people, i just dont like the beliefs, im not not trying to argue just make my point
501joshb 2 years ago
With disagreement, your point is taken. Thank you for at least watching and taking the time to leave a comment.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
no problem,
501joshb 2 years ago
outa all religions i side most with christianity, although i had churches say that if you listen to rock music you worship the devil, and i like rock metal, i dont worship the devil, or i knew a guy that was slighty retarded and church banned him so, that is why im nuetral but thanks for being so nice, i have people yell at me or get angry
501joshb 2 years ago
Things get taken out of context all the time, which is why I am a hardliner about pointing back to the proper exegetical interpretation of Scripture. This is why you find groups that do the things you mentioned.
No problem. You weren't attacking, you weren't attempting to be rude. You respectfully made your point, and I appreciate that. I think we are too often quick to anger, and too slow to listen.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
I'm Christian, I don't believe homosexuality is a sin because, it isn't. I could go crazy on my reasons why but I'll let someone respond to me first before I go all out.
Kevstar19 2 years ago
Perhaps eduation is the key. I see it from both sides. I would like to say at the end of th eday I am without fault, But I know that its false, we cant say ( just because we dont have the same faith as Mr Brewer that he is a quack because his faith points to our lack there of) Lets not get cought up is sexuallity but more so how we can thrive as brothers and sisters in harmony if nothing else. Just because I have a strong feeling for something doesnt make it right or wrong.
Justice4themeek 2 years ago 2
"Christians" are an incredibly mixed up people, you have contradicted yourself in several different ways. you believe gayness is wrong but you have gay friends. i am most certainly straight and also a nihilist but i don't like what you've said here.
your god is perceived to love all his children, your god perceived to forgive and forgive again. your message in this video is mighty confusing. maybe you should try to write it down before you push the record button.
genericsoul 2 years ago
I think lying is wrong, but I have friends who have lied. Heck, I've lied many times in my life. By your logic I shouldn't be friends with them, and hate myself. Your argument of my "self-contradiction" is foolish at best.
What do you mean by "love all his children..."? Do you suggest that I believe in a God who is happy with people doing whatever makes them happy? Then you suggest I follow a God who is okay with rape and murder. Consider what you are saying.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
John 8:7
let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
have you ever read the bible?
1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
just because i don't believe in it doesn't mean i don't know what's in there.
...padre`
genericsoul 2 years ago
Yes, but if you read the rest of John 8, He tells the woman that her sins are forgiven and to "go and sin no more..." He recognizes her sin, He addresses her sin, He calls sin, sin, and pours His grace and forgiveness upon her.
While you may know the verses that suit your desires, I doubt strongly that you understand the depths of its theology, the richness of its history, or understand what it means when one says, the very dust of THIS Book is gold.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
we're bordering dangerously on turning me back into the person i've worked so hard to not be. that being said; enjoy being wrong the rest of your useless and probably sheltered and closeted life.
genericsoul 2 years ago
Jesus said: I give you a NEW commandment: Love one another. As I have loved you, you should also love one another. John 13: 34-35. As someone who believes in God and is gay I know God made me and expects me to be a good person. I have no fears of meeting my maker whenever that will be as long as I treat people with love and respect. I'll let him decide about how good a person I was, and no one else. The world would be a better place if everyone followed the new commandment jesus gave us. Peace.
pipemannow 2 years ago
people are offended because they don't want God or anyone else telling them want they want to do is wrong . they want to be their on god , make their own rules . they steal so it's ok to take what doesn't belong to them . only 1 - 2% of the population have homosexual tendencies , not 10 - 20% . the second commandment says we are not to make a god to suite ourself . God is God and we're not God .
yarekim5932 2 years ago
@yarekim5932 I don't believe in gods or goddesses, spirits or ghost, demigods and poltergeists, so I have no desire to be any of them simply because they don't exist
PipeFriendCHS 2 years ago 2
no one is born gay . there is not a gay gene . but there is a genetic predisposition to sin , it came from Adam , that's why the Messiah is the sinless Son of God . God is His Father . All of us fall short of God's standard - HOLINESS .
yarekim5932 2 years ago
Quite the opposite. There is plenty of proof that is genetic: Countless examples of identical twins that were separated at birth, raised by different families in different cultures/countries and both were gay. People are born gay, whether you like it or not. Do you really think that somebody wakes up one morning at age 16 and decides "let's make my life a lot harder! Today I will be gay lol.
PipeFriendCHS 2 years ago
the problem is that you dont see people protesting with "god hates liars" signs anywhere.
TuplaPekka 2 years ago
I think Reverend Brewer makes it very clear that he loves his homosexual firends. So Im a bit lost when I read that its not about love. Me makes it clear that Christ does indeed love us. For it was His love that he sent his only Son. If we object or not, We at least owe it to ourselves to read and educate what a certain faith stands for. We cant just make statements on emotion or how we were taught or what makes us feel good. People seek something. I am actually not offended by this video
Justice4themeek 2 years ago
@Justice4themeek It is such a cliche that racist people say "..but I have black friends to absolve themselves from their disrespect towards their black brothers and sisters. Similarly, a lot of fundamentalists will first judge gays (as in this video), then follow it up with "but I have gay friends".I am certainly not an expert on religion, but it is my understanding that religion should be about love and harmony, versus division and intolerance
PipeFriendCHS 2 years ago
Marc, I disagree with you about religion. But, these types of videos are not helpful in promoting the Christ in the Bible. I am sorry you have been exposed to so many non Christlike people. They seem to want to lift themselves up and not their Lord.
tobaccoburner 2 years ago
Then you heard not a word I said, and heard only what you wanted to hear. However, I can't be upset because earlier you stated to a member that you don't believe in gods, goddesses, and such. This makes our world views completely different. I believe in a God who created all things, to whom we must answer to.
Respectfully, I don't think that you can really say what religion should "be about" as you don't believe in deities behind religion.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
@reverendmbrewer We do have very different world views. My license plate says "In Reason We trust", I think yours might be "In God we trust" :-). I feel comfortable basing my decisions on facts and it is very abstract to me to base decisions on interpretations of gods/goddesses etc. I have seen many people draw great strength from a belief system and that is very positive. One of my Hindu friends battled cancer and her Hindu belief helped her through it. Their gods/goddesses are so colorful too
PipeFriendCHS 2 years ago
You are right. In God I do trust. I respect your honesty, and I understand where you find offense. I would hope that we can disagree respectfully and without hard feelings. In order to have diversity, we must allow diversity.
Blessings,
Michael
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
I find your video offensive.You make me want to buy that bumper sticker that says "Dear God, protect me from your followers" . Why can't religions focus on love and acceptance and helping other people, why must they be an instrument of division and causing pain? This is not just for christianity, but also for most other faiths. I suggest making videos that help other people as opposed to hurt them, isn't that the christian thing to do to be loving, accepting and help others?
PipeFriendCHS 2 years ago 2
Respectfully, I believe this video was rather tame, gentle, and honest enough to face an issue which I think a lot of Christians are getting wrong. I'm honest enough to say that I believe homosexuality to be immoral, BUT I see it no different in the big picture of sin before God, and our need for Christ. I use the example of my friendships to demonstrate that I am not hung up on the sin, but love my brothers and sisters and treat them like anyone else. Where then, is the offense?
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
@reverendmbrewer Would you be offended if I called you immoral?
PipeFriendCHS 2 years ago
Not particularly. No.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
But to be fair, I've been told that smoking in general is immoral. I believe that to be utter nonsense, so I don't let it bother me. So I guess if there are those who are convinced that what they are doing is okay, why let what others have to say on the matter bother them? Of course that is also what I meant in that we all need a little thicker skin.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
If you called me immoral because of actions I have taken,I'd be okay with that. But to call me immoral for how I was born,is identical to hating black people because they were born with another skin color. As you may know, scientists prove whether something is genetic or not by studying genetic traits in fraternal twins versus identical twins. If an identical twin is gay (regardless of raised seperately or not), the odds are overwhelming that the other is gay too. Less so with fraternal twins.
PipeFriendCHS 2 years ago
my only comment: everyone may think what they want, but just keep in mind that not everyone is christian or believes in (a) God. Many christians want to FORCE the rest of us to live by their lifestyle, something that isn't right! there should not be a christian agenda in politics!!
CigarStudLasVegas 2 years ago 2
CigarStudLasVegas,
I completely agree with, and couldn't agree with you more.
Blessings,
Michael
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
I see. School curriculum is not something that is put to votes in any case I've ever heard of. I had assumed you had meant voting with regard to marriage rights as has been the case in many states.
Also I wan't sure what "ID" stood for.
SpeedyBruin 2 years ago
I understand, it was just an example I shot out. I did vote during the Proposition 8 fiasco. I voted in the affirmative because of what we saw happen in MA regarding schools and parents rights.
ID stands for "Intelligent Design." It would have been a more acceptable theory if the religious connotation was stripped from it. But due to its proponents and opposition, it came across more as a repackaged Genesis story for public schools.
Blessings,
Michael
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
Hope you don't mind more comments :P
To my knowledge nothing in text of proposition 8 mentioned anything to do with the laws surrounding education. It seems that if that were the concern then a more narrowly tailored law could be written regarding health education that does not create what some would argue is a second class citizenship.
SpeedyBruin 2 years ago
Not at all. Thank you for engaging.
You are right. In MA nothing was written into the law regarding education, yet after passing law granting homosexual marriage there was a school who defended a second grade teacher who read "The Two Princes" to his students. Lawsuits were filed, and essentially the courts told parents that they could not exempt their kids from that portion of class, keep their kids home, and the school can continue as it will...
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
...And that is where I take exception. I don't want my kid taught these things as "acceptable" in the school curriculum, I don't think that sort of thing belongs in schools (esp. with kids that young), and I don't think the courts should dictate what morals I should pass on to my child.
MA, in my opinion blew it for everyone else. I see passing "marriage laws" as a gateway for other issues.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
On the issue of health education what specifically do you object to being addressed in the classroom? It's not as though educators are trying to or even capable of altering sexual orientation. To my knowledge the effort is to explain that there are couples of the same sex and they are no better or worse than anyone else - much as you yourself put it in your video.
The reason that many feel it needs to be addressed in class is the high rate of suicide among lgbt youth (related to bullying).
SpeedyBruin 2 years ago
On health education, I guess that depends on our expectations. I would expect the basics. "This is what to expect from part 'a' and 'b' as your body develops. This is how to use a condom. These are some of the things you can contract from unprotected sex. Abstinence is the best form of protection. Etc..."
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
...There are also several failures we must recognize. I think that we, parents, have failed miserably in taking responsibility for our children. We should (as awkward as it may be) teach our children about sex, proper protection, the responsibilities of the matter, etc.
I also think we, parents, fail to teach our children tolerance and understanding. And I think a lot of my fellow Christians are likewise guilty under a false understanding of their faith...
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
...And of course that goes back to the Church. If we had more God fearing Bible believing pastors in the pulpit, instead of little boys wanting to play preacher, we wouldn't have some of the issues we do today because I believe that there is a largely religious drive behind it.
HOWEVER, at the early high school level, I think this needs to be addressed because of the failures. We need to teach understanding and tolerance. But we need to do so rightly...
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
And by that I mean that we must teach that it is okay to disagree and disapprove of homosexuality, but it is not right to give way to bullying and cruelty just because we disagree. We must be tolerant. We must show basic human compassion to one another.
But...kids are cruel. No matter how good a job we do in educating them, raising them, instructing them, etc., they can still be very cruel.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
I completely agree that parents should be more proactive in teaching their children about health. The problem is that it is an uncomfortable topic and in many case parents are unwilling or unable, due to lack of education themselves, to teach their children with regard to this subject. This is why I personally feel that we do our youth a service by keeping health education in the classroom - especially in light of our HIV epidemic.
SpeedyBruin 2 years ago
I'm still a little unclear about what specifically has been taught in Mass. schools that you object to though.
SpeedyBruin 2 years ago
My problem is that it was taught to second graders. How early do we need to introduce (or encourage) sexuality in our kids. Why do we need to define them in that manner at so young. My daughter is five years old, and has no idea what sex is, what a boyfriend/girlfriend are, etc. She knows and sees fellow kids as playmates. Why do we need to disrupt that by throwing divisive things into their lives that they are not physically or mentally ready for?
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
It is exactly the same reason that I don't sit down and play "Gears of War 2" in front of her. It is simply not age appropriate.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
I believe you're referring to the 'king and king' book that was read to second graders? This book created a bit of an uproar that I have trouble understanding - having looked at the book myself. There was nothing in this book that was in any way sexual.
SpeedyBruin 2 years ago
In case you aren't familiar the book is about two princes that fall in love, which is similar to the many prince and princess stories that children at that age are read.
SpeedyBruin 2 years ago
It wasn't an issue of it being sexually charged or not. From what I understand, it is exactly as you described it. Is that, however, the issue we want to press with children so young?
"Daddy, mommy! We read a book today where a prince and a prince get married!"
Now I have to fumble around to explain a mature concept to a child who isn't going to understand it. Why do we believe it isn't right. How do I explain it without her becoming mean.
Again, age inappropriate.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
In your previous comment you had expressed concern that the second graders were exposed to something that "introduced (or encouraged) sexuality" in them. I was just confused as to what you meant.
I guess I still don't understand the objection to the 'King and King' book that you have. I thought you misunderstood the book to be sexual, but as that's not the issue I'm lost. Mind elaborating?
SpeedyBruin 2 years ago
It is my fault, I wasn't clear.
The issue goes deeper than the story. It is an attempt to grab our children while they're young and push them into a direction of acceptance and embracing of the LGBT lifestyle. That is my issue, and that is the honesty of what is happening when we introduce such stories and concepts to young children. It is politicians and activists encroaching on our children undermining my parenting.
In doing so, we are introducing inappropriate subject matter to our kids.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
As a side note, I appreciate your honest engagement throughout this discussion.
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
Would you agree that the absence of any mention of couples of the same sex in the class room also sends a message -a message that these people aren't to be spoken of because there is something wrong with them?
What do you mean "embracing the lgbt lifestyle"? What do you mean by lifestyle?
SpeedyBruin 2 years ago
First Part of My Answer: I don't think it sends a message at all. To say it does is an argument from silence, which is what those protesting Avatar were advocating about the movie. I would be interested in seeing if children even notice. The natural inclination of the human race is male/female which reflects the general world around us. Stories, fairy tales, etc., are going to incline that way. That is (for lack of a better description) simply normal behavioral patterns....
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago
I tend to disagree. We live in a world full of family, friends, and neighbors who are lgbt and I think many of us are raised with the understanding that this is taboo. If it were not then the 'coming out' experience would not be necessary.
SpeedyBruin 2 years ago
And I agree with that. But is it the place of our schools to address that issue with children who are of the elementary school age?
reverendmbrewer 2 years ago