Who tempted Satan to fall ?

[niinja2]

do one on original sin

we can somehow say that we are sinning because of sin that is in us that we inherited from some people who sinned X years ago. Why did they sin if they had no sin in them? Free will? Does that mean there is no free will in heaven , what is the guarantee that we will not sin again? And when did this original sin exactly happen? 6000 years ago? Yeah when god created earth and everything....

[IntrovertedLuddite2]

In a religion where a creator doesnt need his own creator why would you think a tempter would actually require his own tempter?

[tarafulis]

Jake, up with Satan? no noooo! He's down there! You know, the down far place? Oh.. and Satan didn't fight with God. He fought with Mike. Buff Mike.. Flex for us Mike!

See Satan had choice. You have choice. and man, you really should relax :D chill... but ... oh my gosh, is it COLD down there really, or hot? .. this scares me :P

[ThomasWinkworth]

A better question would be what is our purpose and why did God create us. This question is silly as the Angels were tested just like us...

[cutdwnthetrees]

Had there been unbiased research into this topic it would have revealed that the idea that Satan fell from heaven is not actually in the canon. Isaiah 14 is used by many to assert that Satan fell from Heaven, but no where in the text is it implied that it is talking about the Devil. In this text Isaiah is insulting the Babylonian king of the time because he believed that his reign would never stop. Falling from heaven here is used to paint the picture that this king has fallen from his glory.

[guitardude20]

Hey Atheist! I have evidence that there is God. You just won't listen with the RIGHT mind as i can clearly see that you are being led by your own confirmation bias among your brethren!! One day Truth in all its glory will find you and convict and captivate you. You look at only the physical and face value of things and then try to disprove the existence of transcendence. instead of working for dumb organizations trying to put an end to the one's belief, go and teach a 3rd world kid how to read.

[chronicbudha]

@guitardude20 the only valid evidence there has ever been for claims of existence is objective and verifiable. If you do not have this evidence for your god, and yet you claim it exists, then you are a LIAR. To prove me wrong all you need to do is give ONE example of something that we all know to exist, that was discovered using the same criteria you used to determine your gods existence. Saying that you're right over and over and not giving any evidence, is lying. Are you a liar for your god ?

[joelarnda]

@chronicbudha Infinity



[LegendaryAsshole]

@guitardude20 working for dumb organizations? What organizations? Where can I find these large atheist institutions I can get money from? I'd LOVE to get a job with that.. but Like your god, what you mention, yet again. Doesn't exist.

[PessimisticMonday]

@guitardude20 I love how Christians like you try to say you have evidence that God is real and then try to say that the Bible is evidence. Either that or you say because you have faith that proves he's real. Don't ever call anyone else close-minded again friend.....When you point your finger, you have three pointing right back at ya.

[guitardude20]

Its simple Jake, I believe that there is a God and i believe in God. Im proud of that fact and nothing will shake my belief. You have a separate belief and so do I, and since we aren't agreeing to or convinced by each other, the wise thing to do is to leave it here. you take care and have a good day

[chronicbudha]

@guitardude20 So then you admit to being closed minded ? You see, I have no belief in any gods. That doesn't mean that there couldn't be one, it just means that I don't see any objective evidence of one. You on the other hand want to believe in a god despite the lack of any real evidence and you refuse to question that belief. In the real world we call that being delusional. So run away from the truth guitardude20. Obviously reality is something that you can't deal with.

[guitardude20]

No my mind is not lying. I told you before God and things of the spirit are not just mind deep and besides Memetics will never ever EVER be able to explain God. Im done talking to you.

[guitardude20]

You are connected to the matrix of deception and suppression of Truth and so are all your brothers and sisters. Infact i feel sad for you Jake..honestly. Jake, the fact remains the same for me as a convicted believer in God. God and things of the spirit are not just mind deep and besides Memetics will never ever EVER be able to explain God. Im signing out...you have a good day.

[chronicbudha]

@guitardude20 So in other words I'm right, you can't prove your god using the same method you and everyone else uses to prove things exist. You believe because you want to believe and for no other reason. This is called " confirmation bias ". Look it up. Your mind is lying to you.

[guitardude20]

To your second reply, by rational i meant natural, not rational by its politically correct meaning. I was referring to the "rationale, rationality" you atheists use to take your stance against God and Faith. call me daft, no problem, but you will know Truth only after your physical life on earth has ended.

[chronicbudha]

@guitardude20 and when you die, you wont know shit. Because you'll be dead.

[guitardude20]

@chronicbudha you'll be dead only in the physical body to the physical realm we live in. Listen here, if you want to know The Truth, seek it and find it.

[chronicbudha]

@guitardude20 the physical realm is the only realm there is, unless you'd like to explain how something exists without a physicality to it ?

[guitardude20]

@chronicbudha if you've heard of terms like spirits(manifestation and presence), demons and alien beings, paranormal and supernatural, then you'll know what im talking about. i have personally seen or experienced one of these, and im sorry if you have not. im sure you will continue to live in your cocoon of this convenient school of thought you call evolution and atheism that you will shut mind to anything that makes you down right insecure! i won't carry this conversation any further.

[chronicbudha]

@guitardude20 in other words you know that all of those things are bullshit and you know you can't rationally defend them so instead of trying, you're going to blame it on me. You know that your belief can not hold up to rational inquiry and you're not about to even try. I see exactly where you're coming from. You're a coward.

[guitardude20]

@chronicbudha HAH....they are NOT rubbish for me!! they are for you my man...because you have not SEEN THEM!! You are plain boring and dumb....go learn some basic things from your real masters....the all seeing eye! You poor old man!! start walking!

[chronicbudha]

@guitardude20 Actually, I have seen what you are talking about, and I know that there are no mystical woo behind it. i would suggest you study things like, confirmation bias, group think, and cognitive therapy in order to understand how the mind works, and how it isn't always reliable.

Also note, that all claims of existence, be it a personal god or a realm, are subject to the same criteria we already use to determine existence, subjective evidence is not part of that criteria. So you lose.

[guitardude20]

@chronicbudha Don't lie, these are words from an insecure man. All atheist are very very insecure...you and i know that. For me, You lose. Period

[chronicbudha]

@guitardude20 I'm not lying. I have seen what I thought were ghosts. I have meditated to the point that I thought I saw other realms. I have seen healings.as well. Guess what ? They were all, as they are for you, tricks of the mind. You are just too closed minded to even investigate your own claims. I on the other hand, deal with reality. What is objective and verifiable. You deal in a fantasy land. It's sad that you will never see the world as it is and marvel in its true beauty.

[guitardude20]

@chronicbudha Ok, you have seen it. fair enough but that's just it. I have seen it and i have bodily and physical felt and experienced it.(mind you not mentally while in a sleep or dream). When i say physical, i mean, pertaining to all the five senses of my body, the experience of which is more than "objective and verifiable"! Seeing is not always believing jake.

[chronicbudha]

@guitardude20 Thats what you don't understand. The mind can trick the five senses. The mind can make you believe that something exists when it does not. This is why its important to have objective verifiable evidence and why subjective personal experience is NEVER a good way to determine existence. In fact, I can tell you for a fact that there is NOTHING that you can point to that everyone knows exists, that was found using the same criteria you have for your experiences. Nothing.

[guitardude20]

@chronicbudha I can understand why you don't believe in the supernatural. you do not do so mainly because you and I live in a 3 dimensional world based on objective reality or factual evidence. Nobody has seen God in the physical optical sence, not even me. why? the same reason..we live in a limited 3D world with one dimension of time(finiteness). However I have felt God, and I know it is God. I have a conviction and I am very proud of the fact that im convicted by God.

[guitardude20]

While pride is what caused Satan's fall, the free will that Lucifer had as an angel is what caused him to sin. a free will as in a free mind to chose to do anything. and satan did just that, was prideful in the presence of God. If all angels did not have a free will or mind of their own, we would not have heard about Satan and the fallen angels

[redeemer61190]

@guitardude20 yes, but Satan's rebellion against God was sinful, and God cannot allow ANY sin in his presence, you know that.

[guitardude20]

You're a child, denying things that don't seem right in the eyes of rationality and reason or your "bounded reality". you have so rigidly shut your conscience and yourself from believing the Truth that there is no chance of you believing in God and creation. so be it! you will learn and see Truth only after you die. Period

[chronicbudha]

@guitardude20 lmao ! So in other words I have to accept an irrational concept in order to learn to believe in it ? Could you be more daft ?

[guitardude20]

Mr. Jake, Satan or Lucifer as he was called when he was in heaven, was an angel himself (only higher in rank than the other angels). The rank he was holding resulted in "pride" yes pride(incase you ask what pride is). So Satan, became high minded( probably thats from whom you get your high mindedness) and eventually wanted to be like God, the manifestation of which angered God. So "Pride" is the root of Satan's fall. don't ask dumb questions like these

[chronicbudha]

@guitardude20 Still doesn't make sense. Pride is a sin, and since according to the mythology sin exists because of temptation, then the question remains, who tempted Lucifer to be pridefull ? How could one be prideful in the presence of an all mighty god ?

[redeemer61190]

@guitardude20 you seem to have a lot of pride yourself, calling anyone who disagrees with you ignorant and lacking any knowledge of reality. The poster of this video claims to have once been a believer but started to analyze critically what he was believing. That does not make him close minded and ignorant. Has not God blessed us with minds to think critically and yes, even question Him at times? Not all atheists are close minded and just go against religion out of spite.

[koejo1]

papi chulo

[Pyroglyphikz]

all hail Jake

[snuffsan]

Interesting thought

[Shanus17]

well done!

[sarabellumm]

Again study the bible not Dante and medieval writers.

[Matur1n]

We don't know if Satan fell from heaven or not. Temptation comes from the devil, but not all sin is due to temptation. Some of our sins we manage all on our own. Think of temptation like an invitation. Sometimes you are invited to an event, but sometimes you just decide to go on your own without any invite. There doesn't have to be an external tempter for Satan to decide on his own to oppose God (sin). You can sin when the devil tempts you and on your own when he doesn't.

[Katalyzt]

Well done/said Jake ★★★★★

Katalyzt

[CousinoMacul]

That's why we worship Jake!