Alcor Foundation ( Cryonics ) Part.D ( Ted WILLIAMS )

[blackxs2008]

This is rubbish, these people make millions from uncertainties, take the 200k and enjoy the life you have.

[JohnQRandom]

Does anyone know how much it costs to be put in frozen hibernation? I've been fascinated with the idea since I saw the film Vanilla Sky.

[Rebholtz]

@JohnQRandom I am signed up with Alcor. Depends on which route you prefer to take. You can go just neurocryopreservation, or whole body. Believe it or not there are actually a lot of very compelling reasons to go neuro, which you can find on their website, I chose whole body, however. Barring a few caveats, I personally think it increases the odds a bit of my actual resurrection, which realistically are already slim; or if not slim, then many, many hurdles away. Neuro is about 70 k I believe

[Rebholtz]

@JohnQRandom And whole body I KNOW is 200K. I added an extra 30K on top of that because they suggest it, who knows what kind of after death lawsuits may arise that they have to fight on your behalf? Every little bit helps. I am paying for it how most people do. Life insurance policy, which starting young is not too bad. My $230,000 policy costs me $95 a month, and in exchange I get a chance at living again? Definitely worth it in my book.

[SciencianSociety]

All of these religious folks who gripe about this technology are going to be the first ones to use it..Tissue engineers are now growing organs in the lab, genetic engineering, stem cell therapy, bio-nanotechnology..All of this will within 30 to 40 will allow people to easily live past 100, maybe even past 1000.

And these Evangelical Christians, Orthodox Jews, fundamentalist Muslims, will be the first ones running to the nearest clinic to get their "bio-nanobots" and new organs.

[daniellandgrens]

What i read and understood from Alcors site it cost around 200k Not 24 k that someone mentioned.

Maybe someeone have more info about this.

And if u dont live in USA. What do then?

Sounds interesting.

[DK0526]

@daniellandgrens Check out the Cryonics institute they are 28 k and also check out local cryonics support groups in your area...if there is none then start one. Keep reading and asking questions. If you are really interested they is allot of information out there...on the internet or just send me a message.

[Ana1106]

what scares me is that they might actually succeed in this quest and that will lead people further away from G-d.

[DK0526]

@Ana1106 What makes you think that GOD would not approve? God has given us the brains and talents to triple our natural life spans in the industrialized world already. It was once 30 now it is closer to 90. I think God would approve of hospitals, doctors, and medicine why not other forms of life extension. If you think life is a gift then you should want to protect and extend it.

[SciencianSociety]

@Ana1106

Further away from your religious, superstitious stupidity. It's natural to want to live..Remain healthy and strong. If there is a God, he gave us the impulse to live, and just as you would go to a doctor when you get sick, in order to extend your life, science maybe be able to extend human life, just as it's done in the past.

For all you know, those angels " elohim " in your TeNaK might just be technologically advanced beings, playing with your head.

[Zelda3]

using loads of money that their kids/family/friends/charities could have inherited in order to go through some mad freezing process! what great parents!

[theunknowncove]

@Zelda3 Well, they could probably afford it. Get a job. Go to school.

[DK0526]

@Zelda3 Investing in the future that may save the lifes not just of them selves but of their childrens childrens children! A very selfless act indeed!

[TheLizard17]

@Zelda3 about the same money for a funeral. Plus you can pay it with life insurance.

[InfiniVide]

7:08 A strong will to live is not necessarily the same thing as a fear of death. I do not have any particular fear of death. I want to live as long of a life as I can, but I do not want to live forever.

[mattbourke]

@victorcelmare

thats why they have a fee lol, its invested, do some proper research and don't be so negative of something just because you don't understand it.

half of the money covers the procedure cost, the other half is invested, alcor is a non profit organisation, it has vast reserves of cash from its continual investments

[DK0526]

@victorcelmare compounding interest is a powerful force. Why would you need slaves with all those robots around...in fact why would you need work...everyone would be rich technologically speaking...

[mouzouki]

Modern mummification. 200 years later these bodies will be discovered and put in a museum...

[DK0526]

The money that funds these patients is in a type of trust fund that gets stronger with compounding interests over time..so by 200 yrs they and thier charter will have alot of power to put forth into ressucitaion technologies of the future.

[GingerVikingMan]

200 year old mummies aren't considered mummies and there not mummified there cells are decomposing at the same rate

[DK0526]

at liquid nitrogen temperatures cells dont decompose in fact almost all molecular activity stops you have a static state for hundreds if not hundreds of thousands of years. But Moores law and the law of accelerating returns suggest that we will only have to wait for 30 to 70 years for a sufficiently advanced molecular nanotechnology that could repair or replace molecules in an organism at will and thus have the ability to revive a cryonics patient.

[thephailblog]

@DK0526 yea true but for ALL molecular decomposition to stop would have to be at absolute zero (273 degrees Celsius) this is half that

[DK0526]

@thephailblog while absolute zero would in fact stop all molecular vibration or motion, this extreem is not really needed. At liquid nitrogen temps (much more practical and cost effective) all biological decomposition stops. The relative static fixation of molecules is enough to preserve a person for hundreds of thousands of years maybe not millions or billions like absolute zero but clearly enough time for Nanotech and medicine to catch up. moore's law suggests we will need only 30 more years.

[daveozk]

i mite do this in 2045 wen im 55yrs old for 50yrs from then so i live 2 c 2100

[DK0526]

sign up now when your life insurance is cheaper and be covered in case of accidental trauma..better longer coverage for cheaper rates,,,who knows by 2045 we might not need cryonics????

[valhala56]

Yes there is postives! I'm 53 & have some great toys to play with. If you would have told me about the Internet 20 years & mini cellphones, it would have sounded pure Science fiction to me.

[valhala56]

I would be willing to bet on the Intergalactic internet and the intergalactic YouTube, there would be much discussion of planetary surveys done which discovered Type 0 Civilizations that are no more.

Landing on these planets you would find irradatiated ruins of civilizations who could not find answers to similar problems that we face now.

This will be our fate unless we get lucky & start acting like adults instead of spoiled greedy children.

[DK0526]

true! nothing is gauranteed...I hope technology saves us from our selves.

[valhala56]

Back to Alcor. As far as I can see it is just another wahehouse type business in an industrial park. If they plan on houseing the Dewars for say hundreds of years they will have to have a fortified bunker type facility.

As it is now people are stealing any type of metals for recyling. They will not hesitiate to destroy the dewars for the metal.

Also the staff will have to be there to run the facility. What happens in Civil disturbance? No staff - no frozen bodies in dewars.

[valhala56]

If your not familar with Michu Kaku you may want to check out what he says about intergalactic civilizations. Type 1,2,3. He say we are a Type 0 now. We are in the Transition to Type 1 Planetary civilization. This transition is the most dangerous time as we have the technology to destroy ourselves.

This also explains why there is such a deth of ET contact. Most civilizations that have come to the crossroads don't make it.

[DK0526]

I agree with Michu Kaku that we are at a cross roads..but I think that ET is either too far away..I mean lets face it the universe is really huge....finding another needle in the hay stack may be really rare. Or they are here and dont want us to know they are here despite farmer bobs assertion that juvenial aliens tagged his corn crops. They may be so advanced that we are like plants in their presents and are simly not interested at this time.

[valhala56]

On ET, I think it is a matter of technology. Picture yourself on a South Seas Island 400 years ago. You may think your the only people on Earth not realizing their are huge Civilizations in Europe, Asia, Central America etc.

Say your a clever inhabitant you may try to look for signals, say smoke signals. Nothing.

They are out there, we are just to primitive and too remote to contact them on the Galactic Internet. What a shame maybe they could help us.

[valhala56]

Technical I think it is Scientificaly possible. A really advance civilization with have nano robots that can go in at the molecular level and repair damage done by freezing process.

The problem I see is in a collapsing economy & of places for Alcor to be-Arizona seems to me terrible judgement.

What kinda of power source do they use. Can this power source go for years if nessacary. If not then at some point all the bodies will just melt and it will all be for naught.

[DK0526]

Alcor uses liquid nitrogen...in thermos type dewars...no refridgeration to draw power...Alcor has a large storage containment of LN2 much like and other medical facility that stores eggs, sperm, or embryos. Arizona has legal advantages as well as weather, and geological benefits.storage in a more arctic climate would not help a patient if his/her dewar lost its LN2.arctic temps are not cold enough so there is no real disadvantage to a desert climate such as arizona. Funding is compounded intrust

[valhala56]

Alcor doesn't know when the technology will be available to reanimate the folks they got chilling down. This could be 50 years to 500 years.

In the meantime you have to hope the facility stays in a stable enviroment. With the current economic crisis that is a big "IF"

Alcor may lose funding due to malinvestment or outright thievery. & speaking of thievery just like the grave robbers of the Pharohs whose to say the dewars are not stolen for the metals? Anything is possible & likely.

[DK0526]

True it could even be 5000 yrs but moores law indicates otherwise. Even the great depression was a stable enviorment for conservative well diverisfied funds considering einstiens most powerful force known to man "compounding interest" I cant speak for Alcor but the Cryonics Institute is a nonprofit org run by its members with elected directors and open public record to include routine audit. Anything is possible (that is our premise) this is true. Defensive planning makes some things unlikely!

[valhala56]

All investment funds are getting ransacked. More importantly then trust funds is the Fundamental change the world is going to make due to Peak Oil.

Our stable growing economy relied on cheap energy & economic growth.

The coming Depression is going to make the first Depression look like Kindargarten training.

[DK0526]

I share your belief that in the present and near term almost all investments are taking a big correction...due to mismanagement at the central banking level..see the austrian business cycle.History repeats itself but I also see the present problems, including peak oil if it is truly near as very small in light of the laws of accelerating returns and moores law. There is always light at the end of the tunnle, You just have to seek it. Future advances will make everything look like kindergarden.

[valhala56]

If things have not gone all haywire then exponential growth especially in the area of machine intelligence would result in what Kurzweil calls the Technological Singularity which he puts at 2045.

So yeah, machine itelligence could outpace human intelligence even more then the level you put it at.

If Kurzweil is right then it puts other unknowns in front of us. Will the AI be helpers? or will they treat us as pets or will they just get rid us like we try to kill off vermin.

[DK0526]

Kurzweil presents another possibility..that we wont stop at tinkering with machines but we will tinker with our selves. The prelude to this is the human genome project also pedicted by the moores law. Humans will hitch a ride with machines via external and internal augmentation. Not only will the machines become more like us we will become more like them..cyborgs exist today in the crude form of pacemakers, cochlear implants, even nuero chip implants for strokes. enhancement will happen!

[DK0526]

and as enhancment happens we will be fused with advanced AI. It is very unlikly and very hollywood like for AIs or terminators to take over...even though it makes for a good story it is simply not logical...consider the matrix..."the machines couldnt find a better battery source". It all boils down to the glass half full/ half empty way of looking at things. 5 yrs ago property was going through the roof..today its becoming much more affordable. In the depression people were starving,,today ..

[DK0526]

...today in this economic crisis Americans are dieing of obesity...think about that for a moment...we are spoiled so much that what we see as a crisis is with out a doubt 1,000 times better then what was the norm 500yrs ago for 99.99% of the population. This is no where near the great depression...back then people had very little to loose now 3 car familys are loosing a car through repossesion, or forced to rent after forclosure...people were starving and homeless not because of drugs or booze!

[valhala56]

Something for you to ponder:

1] US had very little debt during deprssion No debt is over$11 Trillion just goverment debt

2] US was Oil exporter during depression

No we import 70% of our Oil

3] US still had many family farms left, if you lost your job you could still eat

Most farms now are giant agriCorporations

4] The US was not at war during the depression-we have 2 simultaneous wars now

5] US still had heavy industry in the depression-We are now 70% consumer driven economy.

[DK0526]

1. We were poor we didnt have the credit to take out such a big mortgage (ie. gov debt)

2 We export a lot more then commodity oil like services ie windows software and biotech used in every nook of the world

3 we need less farm land and farmers because of genetically modified food, john deer, and fertilizers.

4. WW2 made us an economic superpower

5. just as technology allows us to use less energy to farm it allows us more consumption with less heavy industry.

There is positives if you look

[valhala56]

Well that's funny. We export Windows Vista, the world loves us!

My vista machine is in closet. I have a Mac now:)

You also made my point, the people had no debt, we have over $50 Trillion in personal debt. That is going to take a lot to pay off.

not to mention you said yourself, people are obese now. A fat lazy spoiled country who is soon to have it's lifestlyle lowered to 3rd world status will not be exactly what the contral goverment wants when they look out at the Tax Protests lately.

[valhala56]

I think if you look at your own comments you can see the problems, yes economic superpower post WW2. Europe & Asia were ruined by bombing. US is where you went for quality cars, appliances, aircraft everything.

Well now the rest of the World has surpassed US. What do we have to offer? Well we can freeze your dead for a high price & we can sell you a Credit Default Swap. Invest in Teasuries & we will buy the 46 inch plasma from China. LOL.

Less the 1% of America farms to feed 300 million!

[valhala56]

I'm going to pick on your comment on farming. First off I am not an enviromentalist and really am ambivelent about GM food.

These huge argi business depend on fossil fuels to make fertilizer - 10 calories of fossil fuel = 1 calorie of food. A 10-1 ratio! Never has that happend in the history of the world!

Then you need trucks to take produce to the market or to the food processors. Without Oil no food gets to market. Without Oil no way for folks to go to WallyWorld & get their food.

[DK0526]

in the 70's linear logic was 100% accurate in predicting worldwide famine due to the fact that at graphed out birth rates would require more agricultural consumption then there was earth land to farm it all. With out GM food we would have experienced that no doubt about it...instead we use less farmland and support 3 times the population. Peak Oil may be just as accurate if you extract out the linear amounts of oil to compete with exponential population...however...when you factor in ..cont,,

[DK0526]

..cont exponential technology...your problems start to melt away for instance less then 1% of the sunlight that hits the earth is enough to power todays world for 100 yrs. solar cell efficientcy is subject to mores law. There is enough coal and known oil in the cracks of dry wells to run the world for 300 yrs with genetically modified microbes that digest fossil fuels and burp out natural gas. There will be more solutions..keep your head up!

[valhala56]

Let me dose you with a little reality. All those technoligies, GM Microbes etc are feasible. The problem is not the technolgy. The problem is the SCALE & MONEY.

Say we switch to H vehicles, we have to replace 200 million cars! Then set up the distrubution infrastructure. Every H vehicle requires a solar panel the size of half a football field to fuel it!

BTW Boone Pickens Giant Windmill plan has failed eventhough he invested $2 Billion into it. Check my channel page for the YT vid on this.

[DK0526]

I was skeptical of boone pickens myself..poor timing...impractical idea...solar also is not ready but it will be. nanotechnology will fix alot of stuff including the economy...most likely! Your not gonna bring me down I am the eternal optimist. I dont need antidepressants. I am always up beat and positive..I am sorry I just cant help but see the light at the tunnel. come to the light side luke..you will be happier! ;)

[valhala56]

I went to a giant wind farm on a family gathering. It was the highlight of the visit for me. I was very impressed.

I wan't skeptical of it at all. I think the failure of Pickens Plan is an omen that these giant green technolgies won't solve the problem. If a Billionare can't do it then who can?

Sorry if bummed you out man. Nobody knows the future for sure. Something could turn up, and I could win the Powerball lottery too! I'm not going to rely on this wishfull thought though.

[DK0526]

even your optimism is couched in pesimism! The oods of success in the powerball are 1:300,000,000 approx. Is that all you give us...come on! You slipping even deeper into the dark abyss!lol

[valhala56]

the Graphed out birth rates are due to Peak Oil, the population charts are Hockey sticks, a slightly elevating line then with Oil the line shoots straight up on the far end. This is all due to Oil. The Oil drove up the Population. Now we have to make do with less oil but more and more people. That could be handleded if the food production system does not break down. If it does then all hell will break lose. Americans are not familar with famine. We also love war too.

[DK0526]

Lets say your right an astroid hits, plauge, or all out nuclear war. It could happen! Then sure no ones gonna give a rip about the dewars...If that happens what does it all matter stock up on canned food, guns, atvs, and build a bunker..Im guessing life may not be worth living in that hell. But if cryonics works..then we made it..type 5 civilization whatever..things will have to be good to put energy into revivals. In a hell scenario who gonna waste the time to revive us...no one Problem solved

[DK0526]

There is 2 possibilities things will get alot better things will get alot worse. It may come down to which philosphy make me/you feel better. basically, if things get better I will be ready..If the world becomes a hell then I will die like everyone else the traditional tried and true way. But over all I still think the trends are positive. I dont know if I can convince you of that but your welcome to join the light side of the force anytime!

[valhala56]

I won't deny I am pessimist. But I also love Science and Technolgy, and love to dream the impossible. That is why I was very dissapointed with the failure of the Pickens Wind turbine failure. At this time I just can not see how they would let it fail.

I'm open to breakthoughs, whether Technological, Political, economic, Social.

I don't see any. They are reinflating economic bubbles, Political is still bad. The only postive one is technology breakthoughs.

[DK0526]

right on brother! I knew I could find some light in there....true politics even brings me down....Maybe science will overcome those nob shines!

[valhala56]

When first reading about the Singularity I thought we were right on the cusp. Then Kruzweil puts the date at 2045!

That's 35 years from now. In the meantime the planet is going into a deeper Global Depression. I just listened to a Pop Sci Podcast on the "physicality" of the internet. Not realizing the amount of energy,money, infrastructure, people, undersea cables required to keep it up.

A couple of really bad years could bring the Internet down. This podcast is in itunes under Pop Sci btw.

[valhala56]

In fact they talk about the hubs in this Podcast, the hubs are bunkers that can withstand a catorgory 5 hurricane, 7 Richter Earthquake, just about anything but a direct nuclear hit, doesn't matter the EMP will fry all the electronics. They also have DOD level security. I think the name of the company is TelMark.

My point is that Alcor has none of this.

[DK0526]

sounds like a good upgrade...how much...cost benifit anylasis? Maybe they will upgrade when they can afford it!

[valhala56]

Probaly a lot of bucks. I tried to google Telmark and couldn't find it. Probaly secret stuff Pop Sci let out on their Podcast. If you don't have Itunes it might be on the PopularScience website.

The podcast title is the "Internet security" I think.

[valhala56]

Theoreticaly I belive Cryonics can work, there is the problem of the brain but that is another discussion.

Apparently you have looked at all the YouTube vids with the "canned food, guns, atvs, and build a bunker" talk.

I don't think this is without reason or as you like Logic. People see it coming, how long? what form? how bad nobody knows. Maybe we will get lucky, I never thought we would survive the cold war but we did. Me personaly I think it was shear dumb luck. Check the Pickens vid!

[valhala56]

I would also put to you that this is not the first time an advanced civilization collapsed.

The Romans, had a virtual interstate highway system throughout Europe. Aqaducts piping in water to the largest city on earth Rome with hot jacuzzi. They had underwater concrete, the largest armies & navies. Mass entertainment, Colliseum & chariot racing. An advanced Multicultural city Rome with Western Goverment & legal system.

All this collapsed circa 400ce leading to over 1000 years of Dark ages.

[DK0526]

Its all relative..the romans also fed people to the lions for entertainment at the collosium...Some might call this the dark ages...What is important is how these trends of up and down rome 5000 yrs up dark ages 1000yrs down are begining to compress. USA 200 yrs up depression 15 yrs down. Today 10yrs stocks up so far 1.5 years down. Technology is speeding up the roller coaster ride..and smoothing out the bumps. Relax and enjoy the ride!

[valhala56]

Fortunely for Civilization, at the time of the Collapse of the Roman empire there were no Nuclear weapons, their civilizated faded away.

Now we are confronting a Nuclear North Korea, Iran ignoring us to go nuclear causing pressure to Israel, Pakistan a country filled with Isalmic terrorists with many nuclear weapons. I don't possibly know what man made threat could be more dangerous.

[valhala56]

My point is I agree with you that given the rate of economic growth before Depression 2.0 kicked in, we would no doub't have made it to the technological singularity circa 2045.

Unforntunely the Global economic Crisis & Peak Oil threw a monkey wrench into this technological growth.

Reality is that US will resemble a Mad Max world in 10 years precluding the stability needed for the Technoligical Singularity.

[bensonak47]

omfg they drilled the skull

[DK0526]

Doctors due this all the time to living people to save their lives...its called Decompressive craniectomy (drill hole in skull) used in subdural hemotomas (brain swelling/bleeding) to relieve pressure..it may have saved Natasha Richardson's life if it was done quick enough but it wasnt and she died! Cryonics is advanced medicine and this procedure is neccesary to save lives.

[ajdnjasknjdnsajkndas]

i think its great!!!!! not gonna lie!!!! seems very cool..... i want to live longer : D

[Bikerboy1750]

well good luck, cuz we aint immortal

i am majoring in forensics, it doesnt bother me to be around death bodies and opening them, but the idea of bringing someone back to life is impossible there is more chances of making a time machine them bringing a person back to this world

[ajdnjasknjdnsajkndas]

how about nanobytes??? will they help??? or stem cells???? help a person live longer???

[DK0526]

Time travel requires physics yet to be invented..Cryonics revival requires DNA blueprints for molecular arrangment (avail in frozen cells nucleus), Molecular Nanotechnolgy (nanoscopic robots templated by the biocellular machinery in all cells) Since we have both designs already in nature...then in principle nanoscopic molecular repair is not only possible but a natural componet of life already. Mimicing and reverse engineering life isnt easy but not impossible

[userek]

I would rather just die

[DK0526]

That is your choice...a right that is fundamental..The last wishes of the dieing should always be honored if possible. However, even though most people say they would rather die then recieve medical treatment...when it comes down to it they almost always want to live rather then die, even quadraplegics when surveyed are happy to be alive approx 82% of them are glad they survived despite popular banter. The will to survive is stronger then you think...consider the jews of nazi concentration camps

[Bonehimer]

"There is only one planet" If all human civilization is not destroyed and prospers through the time then i am guessing at some point other planets and space will be colonize.

[doodledots]

You make a valid point there Verite' and i fully agree with the point you have made, but in reality not every funeral company trades in the manner you suggest, those that do should be always be exposed. My opinion regarding Alcor particularly is based upon inumerable problems i see associated with such a program, but it is only my opinion.

[advancedatheist]

Then tell Alcor how to do it better.

[doodledots]

Having said that i do think it is an extremely fascinating subject matter which in the future might have some medical merit. But, at the moment the science which in the future might allow alcor's claim that reanimation IS possible, is so far removed from being even remotely possible that to accept money from people for these procedures is, in my very humble opinion, morally corrupt.

[veritesurcesite]

Scuse my English.For me it is better to pay to take a chance to come back.Pay for funeral service are the true moral corruption for me,by selling coffins which are often reused several times with persons choosing cremation,pay for the exposure.Alcor fees

[doodledots]

If the trepanation procedure alone,not to mention the endless list of other invasive 'embalming' type procedures shown in this film is anythinig to go by, no amount of archived birthday and christmas cards are going to aid a reanimated brain that has been ireversibly damaged by medically unqualified staff 'guinea pig blind probing' to achieve vitrification! (When brain surgery is performed in the conventional sense at least an attempt at asepsis is made).

[veritesurcesite]

serves for paying start-up costs,salaries of Alcor Staff,the researchers,ambulance fuel,info magazines.I don't smoke & I have no children,so I'm agree to pay for this possibility of returning by a life insurance.

Low cost,and same price like a traditional service.I put my memories on USB key for helping Alcor.Before leave a bad judgement, take a look of all videos here,one by one.If you're interested to take a chance you too, ask 4 a free press-kit to Alcor & said you saw videos on youtube.

[thehellwiththiscrap]

gross

[freckles2428]

An extremely intriguing subject. A bit scary and macabre. Shades of Frankenstein. My opinion? I don't think so, just like I don't think matter transfer (beam me up) will happen either. But what do I know!

[roridude]

great stuff