My Call in to "Faith on Trial" with Pastor David (3/1/08)

[rayray512]

This pastor's pretty good. He spoke quite eloquently throughout.

[methinxaweezil]

The hell of it all is the whole mess got started when god stuck a tree full of forbidden fruit smack in the middle of the garden. What the hell was god thinking? Might as well throw a banana into a monkey cage.

[arzeisel14]

There is no reason to believe in gravity, that we actually exist, that democracy works, and that I actually have free will. Thusly without God, everything can not make sense. Everything we believe to be real is irrational. There is no way to prove anything unless we have that solid objective foundation (God). So called rationalism, is as irrational as anything else when you get down to it. We may think that we are real, that we feel pain, but that doesn't make it true.

[Jeremyguru]

You are wrong. Nothing makes sense unless we believe in Cosmic Chipmunks. Please go learn.

[arzeisel14]

I heard it the complete other way, that the Pastor gave completely logical answers.

Notions of torture in hell and so forth are unknown. All we know that hell actually is, is a separation from God, that a person chooses through a life of rejecting God.

There is no way to disprove God's existence just as there is no way to prove he doesn't exist.

but if we question God why don't we question everything else to the same degree. If I didn't have my faith I would completely reject everything.

[Jeremyguru]

"Separation from god" doesn't sound bad at all. What is the alternative...praising the Slavemaster for eternity in heaven? Wow, that sounds like fun. I think I prefer enilation after death.

You say that hell is "unknown." I assume you're a christian. Have you ever read the bible? It's pretty graphic as to what hell is.

You're right. We cannot disprove ANY god. I guess you better worship ALL gods, just in case.

[firegrr1]

Great post. You really pointed out some major problems with Christian dogma very well. Keep it up! Also, love all your videos from FFRF.

[Lionspoint]

The whole thing is worth listening to but after 7:00 you have pinned this Pastor to the mat. He tried to make it out that eternal suffering is some small example of scripture and likening that to a few troubling trees in the forest of truth. You really did shut him down! I did the same thing (not on radio) with all the children god killed in the flood myth. The person I was talking to was without a comeback.

[RudeJesus]

Any God that would create us to fail and then punish us forever because we did would not be worthy of worship. Keep up the good work.

[GustafSjoblom]

I'll start with a little criticism. It was a mistake to start of by quoting a bible verse out of context, since it gave the pastor an easy comeback to your first question where even I as an atheist have to say that in a vacuum he wins the argument.

The sacrifice argument however, fabulous. A "Would it make sense for me to have to torture myself in order to forgive my children for stupid things they have done? Wouldn't it be easier to simply forgive them?" would have added nicely to it though.

[unalunallena]

Thanks for the criticism. I realize that I have some work to do in coming off well on the phone with guys like this. This pastor makes a living by speaking in circles, and I don't have nearly as much practice as him in this regard. Thanks for the comment!

[mrjamesgoodier]

I don't agree with your criticism Gustaf - the pastor's view that jesus tailored his advice for one individual and therefore we shouldn't take the advice literally ourselves is nonsense. The story is clearly there to be an example to every one of us. And certainly, in today's materialistic age nearly everyone of us is very comparable to the rich man in the story. I'm guessing the pastor's got a bit stashed away so obviously he will want to spin the story to suit his own financial situation.