Libertarian Follies (Part 1)

[Rothbardlover]

This man is very wise and I'm sure has helped people into the Church. But he is an ignoramus on economics. He completely misunderstood the concept of "demand".

I long for the day with economically ignorant Catholics depart from the Church. That day can't come soon enough.

[DrKnow417]

Manufacturing hasn't left US soil. That is a complete myth not supported by any objective examination of the facts.

[InTheEndIWasRight]

I have no idea where you found the notion that anti-statists support and or defend corporations. This was one of the more absurd things I heard.

[tewj57]

So this guy has no idea what economists mean by "demand," as evidenced by this video, and people are still giving him the time of day? As usual, this type knows nothing except what he's read in the pamphlets his crazy publishing houses put out. Ignoramuses like these should be ignored.

[xTAxGUNZ]

@tewj57 I was just going to say this. He doesn't has even a basic understanding of Economics. Demand is not wants or needs. Demand is a WILLINGNESS and ABILITY to obtain some good or service. If he had a better grasp of Economics he would realize that demand in the United States has generally decreased. Mainly due to the reduction of real wages by the general rise in prices caused by inflation.

[sports3136]

on quick response to your video at 3:07 you say that people with no income have alot of demand, that is not true, In economics demand is you have a desier to have that and also that you can afford it. So if you have no source of income you demand nothing cause you can't afford anything. That is simple economics 101. If income goes down demand for normal goods goes down and visa versa.

[RestorationistNews]

The Church does advocate Justice and Charity & Truth. And if you read Rerum Novarum, you will find the church also advocates private property. The problem with laissez faire economics is the same problem with Socialism; concentration of economic & political power in the hands of a small elite.We oppose both forms of Monopoly. "Too much capitalism does not mean too many capitalists, but too few capitalists." G.K. We've avoided slavery here by enslaving foreigners through so-called "free trade".

[ariaane]

The most balanced post I've read under this video. Hat tip.

[RestorationistNews]

Finding Chesteron & Belloc is Finding Something...Something that the public school system has managed to hide. I would go so far to say that " the System" if I may use such a broad term, would prefer it never be found. Jewels are Jewels because they are rare. People do not find jewels of knowledge these days because they cannot read a map. If fact, many do not read or are too busy balancing their shaky relationships and wage slavery to do research. Chesterton and Belloc understood the game.:-)

[RevolutionaryJam]

Dead right on manufacturing! They just want to send it all off to wherever they get the cheapest labour.

[RevolutionaryJam]

"People who have no income have lots of demands" Key point, market only reprisents the demands of people who can afford to pay for it

don't agree with all points but fair reasoning

[RestorationistNews]

It is fascinating to watch those who consider themselves Conservatives and yet support Economic Darwinism. It is sort of like that "prosperity doctrine"- a theological treaty aimed against those who suffer. If prosperity means holiness why were all of the disciples ( save possibly John) killed? What about Paul and Job, why not throw out Lamentations.

We have to decide as Conservatives whether we are Republicans or Christians first concerning policy. There is a third way. Paleocrat has found it.

[paleocrat]

I haven't "found it" yet, but I'm catching on quick, and beginning to see the forest for the trees.

[ariaane]

Paelocrat has found nothing.

He is simply repeating the words of Hillaire Belloc, Chesterton and Bishop Fulten Sheen on distributist ideas.

That being said, the Church doesn't impose a distributist framework upon Catholics when it comes to work.

The principle of subsidiarity is key.

All she asks is that we are charitable.

[Childinfaith]

Well I assume if you accept the authroity of the Catholic Church, you would incorperate such outlooks in your own and by extension a youtube video you would make pretaining to such a topic such as this. 99.9% of all ideas are recycled.

[ariaane]

Again- the Church has never touted distributism. It is Catholic writers like Belloc and Chesterton who have.

There is no Church authority from mere men- even if they are intelligent.

Again, the Church focuses on subsidiarity, solidarity and charity. That is all.

Distributism is already practiced by Asians, as they often own co ops, family businesses etc.

Distributism will NOT WORK for caucasians who are too busy contracepting to have large families- which are required for family businesses.

[paleocrat]

Saying the Church never touted distributism (the word) doesn't mean that the philosophy and policies held and advocated by distributists aren't identical to those found in the encyclicals. That argument, consistently applied to other beliefs, would make Trinitarianism a hard sell, as Scripture doesn't use the word.

My blog on subsidiarity is linked in the sidebar.

Distributism emphasizes small, locally owned businesses, but I know of none who define this as being family-runned businesses.

[paleocrat]

When did I ever claim that my opinions are unique (by the strictest definition of the word) or novel?

Apparently you fail to realize that what we believe is the product of reason, logic, experience, and maybe even emotion. None of these are new, and neither of us could take credit for our having found something new when relying upon them.

I linked my recent blog regarding the abuse of the principle of subsidiarity by classical liberals and even many distributists.

[collegeboy477]

whoever this person us your adressing, I think he has massively misrepresented the common libertarian position

[migkillertwo]

There are so many different "libertarian" positions. There's collectivist libertarian, there's capitalist libertarianism, socialist libertarianism, there's no "Libertarian position". There's "Capitalist" position sure

[paleocrat]

I have already expressed my skepticism to migkillertwo regarding his knowledge of the political economy. While I don't believe he has an adequate grasp on the various schools of thought concerning the political economy (whether it be my Distributism/Solidarism or his personal shade of libertarianism), many of the arguments he employs are in fact very common amongst libertarians, particularly amongst the Austrian school.

[kdurston1]

i have to admit to being ambivalent to sweat shops. i think it's jolly well reasonable for corps. to go elsewhere than be held hostage by unreasonable unions. but i don't like how some, not all, sweatshops treat their workers poorly. i really have to read the Popes new encyclical on the issue.

[paleocrat]

Say it like you mean it! Let's translate:

I have to admit to being relatively indifferent to the child/slave labor taking place in sweatshops that demand outrageous hours, deny any reasonable pay by which the laborer may live in a respectable manner, and exploit the lack of workplace safety laws, resulting in work environments that are often dangerous and have been the cause of serious injuries and deaths.

(cont.)

[paleocrat]

I think it's jolly well reasonable for the economic masters of the universe to flee from the demands from American wage-whores demanding a greater share in the post-tax surplus value horded by the already rich and famous.

I see no problem in Corporations firing Americans, leaving the unemployed to be supported by employed Aericans, depleting tax and tithe revenue both from Corporations and employees, then having to buy cheap goods from former employers, made by foreign replacements.

[paleocrat]

The pope's new encyclical is part of an overall body of teaching known as CST. The pontiffs have condemned laissez faire, the philosophy and policies of the Austrian horde, exploitation of countries lacking humane labor laws, a wage-contract system that fails to provide a Just and Living Wage, etc. etc. Austrian economics and Catholic Social Teaching are incompatible, as the Church is as clear in condemning the Austrian School as they are Socialism and Marxism.

PS- All the popes support unions.

[ariaane]

Yes the Pope supports unions, but I very much doubt he looks favourably at the bureaucratic nonsense they've become in the west.

[tyrantslayer999]

I think a lot of this debate comes down to what are rights? Are rights positive, negative, or both? Most Americans would say both, but I think I, and most other libertarians, would say that positive "rights" do not exist.

[nofalltoofar]

Sweatshops keep themselves alive. A sweatshop job is considered paradise next to the rest of the jobs that the people who live in those countries have to work.

The problem is that people compare standards of living to these countries to American SoL, which is highly unfair. Sweat-shop laborers have a higher SoL than the people in their immediate area, therefore it's pointless to look at the conditions they work in from our point of view and criticize corporations.

[paleocrat]

So you support sweat shops, even crowning them as humanitarian efforts (rather than examples of extortion) delivered to an otherwise impoverished people by corporations that grow fat with money and power on the backs of those unfortunate enough to be pillaged by their economic colonialists masters.

[paleocrat]

Your argument that while the SoL of slave-laborers in foreign countries may be better than those not granted the golden opportunity of becoming wage-whores to foreign economic imperialists is strangely similar to those defending the torture taking place in the so-called War on Terror due to its not being as bad a the treatment endured by the hands of Nazis in concentration camps.

To be quite frank, your argument sucks.

[nofalltoofar]

I don't see how that applies at all. Your example is just an argument ad pathos.

Shutting down the factories would force laborers to go back to the lower standard of living they had before they worked in factories. Sweat-shop labor remains a coveted job in areas of the world, and shutting down the factories does more harm than good.

People who work in sweat-shops are by and large better off than their neighbors. You should be more concerned about the neighbors who can't get jobs at factories.

[migkillertwo]

a person with no income still has demand?

I think we're using different definitions of "demand". Usually "spending" is equated with "demand" in the literature. Surely you know this.

[paleocrat]

Why would spending be equated with demand? Spending is the means by which a demand may be ethically satisfied, exchanging one a service or good for another service or good, but the demand is there regardless of whether or not one is able to provide a satisfactory service or good.

It would be far more sensible to equate demand with the desire among the populace for services or goods.

[migkillertwo]

"Why would spending be equated with demand?"

haven't you ever heard the term "aggregate demand"?

[paleocrat]

From Bastiat to Keynes??? Ironically, this is the story (and primary criticism from distributists) of capitalism. You may start with Bastiat, but Keynes will inevitably be called upon.

And please tell me you just ignore the criticisms of AD theory. That would be well below you.

[migkillertwo]

I'm not saying that I'm a Keynesian, or that I buy the whole "aggregate demand" nonsense. I am just claiming that this is a canon of language in academia.

[tyrantslayer999]

It seems that you'd be more akin to the austrian school from what I've seen.

[migkillertwo]

Yes, precisely tyrantslayer