Frima Studio's Adobe Flash "Stage 3D" demo video

[jv02val]

How to do this in flash? any tutorial pls. I want to learn how to do this. :)

[toutagamon]

The way BACK to 30fps. Awesome!

[darkside267r]

Lol Apple hates flash,Adobe Flash not be for apple devices,Android has it,hah

[VangelonPanos]

@darkside267r Sigh, no one bothers to actually research before they post. Flash can be developed for Apple. Adobe have developed a cross-platform "container" called Adobe Air, which will export flash to pretty much any device (including apple). It'll be an IPA file, just like any other apple application.

This isn't new by the way, Flash CS4 (and possibly 3) exported to IPA. Quite a few games on the app store were made in Flash.

[5865500]

this will kill none FLASH DEVICES! *caugh*Apple*caugh*

[adnelortiz]

What are the system specs?? CPU/GPU Resources? Memory Usage??

I need something to have an idea of what performance it delivers... but knowing Adobe, that might be a HD6970 or the NVidia top of the line equivalent...

[jpauclairblog]

@adnelortiz This is running on a nvidia GT8600. In fullscreen Full HD 1080

It can run at 60fps, and use a low as 40Mb of ram.

It's a highly optimized demo using flash fast memory opcodes.

[CometLol]

HTML5 is the future.

[imaginenothingness]

@CometLol HTML5 is a great step forward but I dont think it will replace flash. HMTL5 and Javascript will cause the same type of performance problems flash does. Flash as3 is basically javascript afterall (ECMAScript). Plus The thing flash has is a great IDE and AS is a constantly updated language. HTML5 will stay the same for many years after it becomes standard.

[Zdolshin]

@imaginenothingness well stated. In fact HTML5 isn't set to become standard until 2022 or so. That could have changed and seems to vary by a few years depending on who you talk to, but Fl and AS will be FAR past HTML5 by the time 10 more years rolls by.

[SirBeany]

@Mike89066 WebGL is made for 1 thing, Flash is made for many. And how is Flash bloated? Flash Player is a tiny 3MB download. The player even runs fine on smartphones so if it was so bloated how can it do that? Flash can run video's, games, 3D, sound, sites and a million other things... i dont know of anything else thats only 3MB which can do the same. The closest thing to Flash would be a web browser or another plugin like Java - all of which are larger downloads and use more memory.

[jargainjones]

Im still laughing at all the people who thought HTML5 could in some way take over flash, lol! FLASH is just beginning.

[nizamm]

Flash > WebGL / HTML 5 / iPad / Shmeve Jobs

[adobeflexengineer]

I think it is important to also raise awareness regarding Apple's scams and abuses related to mobile application and digital entertainment markets, their strategy to destroy the web by kicking users out of the web into Apple's walled garden taxed at 30% is outrageous! Apple's ban of Flash is not acceptable, turning consumers and developers into collateral damages in a corporate war is not acceptable! Join the fight and follow me on Twitter "flexengineer".

[holmesfutrell]

@adobeflexengineer Sorry buddy, but Flash isn't the web.

[Xennon101]

In a full AAA title, CPU useage would become a problem due to game logic processing. Mainly because flash is still single threaded so you can't utilize multiple cores. However Adobe are activly working on adding threading to Flash Player, and once that is in, optimization ahoy! You'll be able to do all the great graphical stuff and all the powerful CPU stuff on multiple cores.

[Thet3]

@Xennon101 hey! do all 3d engines for flash use similar code? like alternativa vs papervision code or is it specific to the engine?

[Xennon101]

@Thet3 It will be specific per engine, but they will all use the Molehill API for accessing the graphics card processing. So there will be common features deep in the depths of the engine, but the actual parts that Joe Public use to render their graphics will be bespoke per engine. Of course graphics programming is a common discipline with many standards, so you may find common elements between different engines even if they were written by different people.

[Thet3]

@Xennon101 thanks! My problem is I wan't to learn as3 with alternivia3D or away 3d but there is barely any training for it or tutorials! I wish they made a training dvd course for this as I am very interested!

[Xennon101]

@Thet3 As disciplines, you should consider learning AS3 and then 3d graphics coding as seperate things. Start by learning AS3 and Flash. Get an understanding of object oriented programming (if you don't already) and get a firm understanding of AS3 and how it works etc. Then start looking into 3d graphics programming and understanding the maths and concepts behind it (not necessarily with AS3 and Alterniva, just anything.). Once you have a grasp of both, then try both together with Alterniva :-)

[Thet3]

@Xennon101 thanks I have been learning as3 for about 5 months..

[Incrue]

now we're talking

[youssef0eddoumali]

when it comes to HTML5 i agree with you there still some issues chosing which video codecs will be adopted and so so but you should consider that the specification are not close yet that's why there is some difference in renedering, but as far as WEBGL the khronos group released the final specification days ago and they are moving to the next step now: OpenCL it will be aimed to help the broweser to use the opencl API via javascript, i think it will help in post processing LQ video for example

[jrfps]

which gfx card?

[youssef0eddoumali]

sorry but i prefer WebGL already in firefox 4

[FelixSimonsen]

@youssef0eddoumali

and in chrome, safari, ie, opera...?

[youssef0eddoumali]

@FelixSimonsen as i know chrome already support webgl since version 9 the upcoming 10 version will introduce further hardware accelerated content and the 11th version an amazing javascript engine optimisation, and until now there is no HA neither in safari or opera

[FelixSimonsen]

@youssef0eddoumali

yes, but you wrote in firefox 4 ;)

But the performance and crossplattform/devices compatibility of flash ist a biggg +

[youssef0eddoumali]

@FelixSimonsen yes i said in firefox 4 because it's my main browser , Open Source is the way to go, no second guess i can't deal with closed source application for #$%^&* reason

[FelixSimonsen]

@youssef0eddoumali

yes, this is a developer choice. open source is a great thing! But sometimes not the best for my needs.

[SirBeany]

@youssef0eddoumali All of the Flash SWF format, Flash compiler and all Flash related specifications are published, open-source and free!

Only the Flash Professionnal software, who is part of the Creative Suite, is proprietary. But like with any decent software you have to pay for it. I'm choosing to develope in Flash simply because it's vastly superior to any HTML5 alternative, the amount of things you can do and the software is miles ahead.

[youssef0eddoumali]

@SirBeany and don't forget that with webglyou will not have to rely on third party plugin to use 3D content which is good for stability

[SirBeany]

@youssef0eddoumali But Flash has over 97% install base and being as the Flash Player deals with everything, when you create something in Flash it will work and look EXACTLY the same in all browsers and on all OS and devices. Can you say the same for HTML5 and WebGL? I dont think so. Browsers still render basic web pages differently, and they have different levels of performance and standards support. Flash is totally consistent and way more stable. No serious developer would consider WebGL.

[Thet3]

@SirBeany will it use openGL or dx11 some day?

[SirBeany]

@Thet3 Flash Molehill already uses OpenGL because it has to for OSX and Linux which dont have DirectX. For Windows it uses DX9. I would think the only reason it dont use DX11 right now is because OSX for Mac simply cant do DX11 graphics. It uses an outdated OpenGL version that is roughly equal to DX9. Not sure about Linux, but until other OS's stop using such dated technologies i doubt there will be DX11 support any time soon.

[CirnoLikesMath]

@SirBeany More stable? Are you joking? Flash is responsible for 90% of all browser crashes.

[youssef0eddoumali]

does it mean that i will be able to watch porn in 3D, coooooooL

[gamestring1]

Ahhh but now we can have it all! Using GameString's Arcade Server with Unity means you can pile on lots of yummy 3D graphics clientside and use the server for any other graphical, AI or physics grunt - why suffer with one screw driver when you can have the whole toolbox?

[ianajax]

Jedrichards: Of course The rendering has been a bottleneck, Flash has not have any hardware 3d at all. Now it has. Whick will mean:

1. Real 3D games.

Which will mean

2. Real 3d Physics and AI. And believe me, they ARE consuming CPU as hell (in "real" games that is). In this demo we see no real physcis or AI at work, of course it runs 0% then :) So Audas has a big point in his comment. And the CPU impact willl be far from neglible

[Glidias]

More than half a million polygons is an exaggeration. But definitely very nice.

[GOOB3000]

@Glidias Exaggeration How?

[audas]

@Glidias No its not an exaggeration - its very accurate.

[p0lishsausage]

What operating system/browser combinations does it run on tell me?

[jedrichards]

@p0lishsausage It's Flash, it'll run on any OS/browser combo that Flash 10.1 runs on now, I'd imagine. Of course, CPU/GPU speed will have an impact on the performance, just like any 3D accelerated content ...

[audas]

@jedrichards

No it wont thats the point, all 3D is rendered via the GPU - meaning - no CPU. Watch the presentations - the CPU is running at zero.

[jedrichards]

@audas The ActionScript will still run via the CPU though. So as soon as you have game logic, AI etc. running, as in a real world application or game (not just a graphical demo), then CPU speed becomes important too.

[audas]

@jedrichards

The flash player logic is probably the most powerful on the web - it even runs c++, it is highly optimised thats why it is vastly superior to html5. If you take the time to look at the demo (they are not graphical demo's as shown at adobe max with the car racer game) you have ZERO CPU. Yes ZERO. game logic is nothing for flash - literally - it doesn't break a sweat - it is only heavy graphics and that is now GPU. Also see flash 10.2 new capabilities. You don't use flash do you.

[jedrichards]

@audas I'm a senior AS3 developer with about 10 years experience in major London agencies, I make my living from Flash, so am definitely on the side of Flash. I think the new 3D developments are great. For complex games, the logic, AI and physics calculations on the CPU are a major bottleneck, even on AAA games on high end PCs and consoles. As 3D Flash games become more complex, and closer to 3D experiences on other platforms, Flash developers need to understand these issues.

[audas]

@jedrichards Again - watch the demo - it runs at ZERO. The point about the entire project is you are able to off set many of these calculations to the GPU - thats the entire point. game logic and AI - please, are you serious ? Its nothing. The physics calculations are not that heavy, using Box2d, jiglib or whatever, because the processing of all graphics is being offset there will be negligible CPU impact at best as there will absolutely no bottle neck from graphics.

[audas]

@jedrichards

You have to remember that the 3D graphics calculations combined with physics is the issue - without the 3D the physics calculations will run with almost minimal impact - thats what flash does - calculates brilliantly. Maths. Rendering things causes the bottle neck and hence the physics problem. Its easy to see - just build something with almost no graphics - apply -physics and CPU is at nothing. Seriously - just watch the demo. I can't say it again - then come back.

[BobbyBerberyan]

I'm looking forward to using this. This is AWESOME!!!

[geeEmGee]

saw this run as a flash file on an engineer's computer at AdobeMax, looked super tight.

[arpitmathur80]

Really looking forward to Flash Player 11, this is gonna be AWESOME

[audiowiz]

very cool! can't wait til they expand the prerelease group some more