The meme´s eye perspective on the evolution of culture reveils a compelling philosophical story from a very high level of abstraction. Yet the translation to the level of concrete causal explanations and usefulness for a real scientific research program may prove difficult. Does it give us new, testable predictions? At a slightly lower level of abstraction there´s e.g. Pinker's nonmemetic theory about the cognitive niche, at this point in time maybe more practical for scientific purposes.
@Naturalist1979 I think that the fact that Blackmore's "big brain hypothesis" and my "upright gait hypothesis" came from enthusiasts for the meme's eye view suggest that it is performing useful scientific work. As with the gene's eye view, a big part of the idea is to help people to visualise what is going on.
@tmtyler Pinker provides an explanation on a somewhat lower level of abstraction for our big brain that seems very convincing to me, and the causal factors are very clear. But indeed, once in the cognitive niche; once memes gain some momentum, things get more complicated and the memes eye view becomes meaningful. Pinker certainly doesn't deny the role of culture in more recent human history as is evident in his new book 'The Better Angels of Human Nature'.
You think our upright gait was pressured by walk-upright-memes and not simply changing environmental factors? What kind of selective pressure for walk-(evermore-)upright-memes would you say caused this?
@Naturalist1979 Many factors have been suggested as selectively favouring an upright gait. "The evolution of the upright posture and gait" by Niemitz (2010) offers a review of these. This happened a long time ago - and I am not committed to any particular selective hypothesis.
@Naturalist1979 The idea that our upright gait is a product of gene-meme coevolution is a fairly simple consequence of the extent to which our upright gait is still culturally transmitted - even today. This idea is not incompatible with the idea that changed environmental conditions may have triggered the change.
@Naturalist1979 The requirements for Blackmore's "memetic driving" don't seem too demanding. I suspect you are using the term to refer to cases where the memes are associated with their own selective pressures (rather than just facilitating adaptation to the environment). That is practically bound to happen, though. For example, if walking skill is facilitated by behavioural imitation, that introduces a whole bunch of selection pressures to improve imitation capabilities.
@Naturalist1979 Pinker describes culture as a "prescientific black box". Speculating on human evolution without factoring in cultural evolution seems to be mostly a pointless waste of time to me - since the effects of culture on our acestors were so large. Cultural change dragged the human genome behind it in its rampage through design space. Ignoring cultural evolution severely limits what can usefully be said.
This is precisely what I have been working on for a couple of years. I apply John Nash's Game theory/FU Buddy theory with psychology in my model regarding memes! You can see this in action perfectly with Ujames1978 Channel and the his subscriber Hannibalfatboy, it's fascinating and I apply this heavily to the Mens Rights Movement, Feminism and prosocial behaviorisms! APE
The meme´s eye perspective on the evolution of culture reveils a compelling philosophical story from a very high level of abstraction. Yet the translation to the level of concrete causal explanations and usefulness for a real scientific research program may prove difficult. Does it give us new, testable predictions? At a slightly lower level of abstraction there´s e.g. Pinker's nonmemetic theory about the cognitive niche, at this point in time maybe more practical for scientific purposes.
Naturalist1979 4 months ago
@Naturalist1979 I think that the fact that Blackmore's "big brain hypothesis" and my "upright gait hypothesis" came from enthusiasts for the meme's eye view suggest that it is performing useful scientific work. As with the gene's eye view, a big part of the idea is to help people to visualise what is going on.
tmtyler 4 months ago
@tmtyler Pinker provides an explanation on a somewhat lower level of abstraction for our big brain that seems very convincing to me, and the causal factors are very clear. But indeed, once in the cognitive niche; once memes gain some momentum, things get more complicated and the memes eye view becomes meaningful. Pinker certainly doesn't deny the role of culture in more recent human history as is evident in his new book 'The Better Angels of Human Nature'.
Naturalist1979 4 months ago
You think our upright gait was pressured by walk-upright-memes and not simply changing environmental factors? What kind of selective pressure for walk-(evermore-)upright-memes would you say caused this?
Naturalist1979 4 months ago
@Naturalist1979 Many factors have been suggested as selectively favouring an upright gait. "The evolution of the upright posture and gait" by Niemitz (2010) offers a review of these. This happened a long time ago - and I am not committed to any particular selective hypothesis.
tmtyler 4 months ago
@Naturalist1979 The idea that our upright gait is a product of gene-meme coevolution is a fairly simple consequence of the extent to which our upright gait is still culturally transmitted - even today. This idea is not incompatible with the idea that changed environmental conditions may have triggered the change.
tmtyler 4 months ago
@tmtyler That seems fair, but in that case there doesn't seem to be a ´memetic driver´ involved as in Blackmore's hypothesis.
Naturalist1979 4 months ago
@Naturalist1979 The requirements for Blackmore's "memetic driving" don't seem too demanding. I suspect you are using the term to refer to cases where the memes are associated with their own selective pressures (rather than just facilitating adaptation to the environment). That is practically bound to happen, though. For example, if walking skill is facilitated by behavioural imitation, that introduces a whole bunch of selection pressures to improve imitation capabilities.
seemysig 4 months ago
@Naturalist1979 Pinker describes culture as a "prescientific black box". Speculating on human evolution without factoring in cultural evolution seems to be mostly a pointless waste of time to me - since the effects of culture on our acestors were so large. Cultural change dragged the human genome behind it in its rampage through design space. Ignoring cultural evolution severely limits what can usefully be said.
tmtyler 4 months ago
A fascinating point about Academia!
apekillssnake 4 months ago
This is precisely what I have been working on for a couple of years. I apply John Nash's Game theory/FU Buddy theory with psychology in my model regarding memes! You can see this in action perfectly with Ujames1978 Channel and the his subscriber Hannibalfatboy, it's fascinating and I apply this heavily to the Mens Rights Movement, Feminism and prosocial behaviorisms! APE
apekillssnake 4 months ago