1 John 3:2 “Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.” Romans 8:16 “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:” I John 5:13 "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."
How saved are you when you might fall away and discover you were never saved in the first place? How do you know you will "endure to the end"? "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."
@trencher7 You might as well ask, how saved are you when you're saved? If a person has been really saved, (God's way – John 14:6; John 20:31; Acts 16:31) how can you discover later that you weren't saved in the first place?
@trencher7 God, in His plan of salvation by grace, doesn't play games. Rom 8:16 “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:” One either believes God or he doesn’t. If one is saved God’s way, then later he doesn’t find out he is not saved.
@trencher7 Fall away? How can that happen? John 6:44 “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” Changing one's mind about sin and the Savior, trusting upon the Lord for forgiveness, it is at that very moment of faith that the Holy Spirit comes to indwell that person forever
@trencher7 The Holy Spirit doesn’t just come and go. John 10:27-30 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.
@trencher7 Rom 8:9-11 “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
@diesbl Those are great scriptures. Heb 5:9 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"
So obedience is a requirement for salvation. I would consider obedience a work. Works don;t earn us salvation, God simply chooses to save those who do his will. When the man asked Jesus how to be saved, Jesus did not say "Just believe!", but asked the man to do a work (sell all that he had). Of course works alone without faith will not save.
@trencher7 – “So obedience is a requirement for salvation.” You ask. Yes! Your words have truth, as I quoted them here. It could be said to be a requirement or condition for salvation. But it is not a work.
@diesbl Eph. 2:8-9 “For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not of works, so that no one can boast.” One can twist the word obey around and call it a work or works. When they do this, they can claim (boast) that they took part in the grace of God.
@diesbl God’s salvation is a free gift, given by His grace. How can one take part in it by any work? The free gift becomes an earned gift. What does God’s word say and demand or require…that’s what counts. God says to obey the gospel. Do the condition, do the requirement….which is to obey the gospel.
@diesbl How do you define "work"? Even though the Lord asks us to participate in our salvation none of it "earns" us Salvation. There's nothing wrong with calling our obedience as works as long as you aren't assuming they make God obligated to save us. It's His grace that makes it all possible. That's what Paul was getting at. We have nothing to boast of since mankind can never on his own overcome spiritual death as a result of sin.
@trencher7 My defining "work" - The outward expression of inward faith. Faith and works are inseparable - Jesus is the source of works for those who have faith, and those works are presented as "fruit." A Christian bears fruits of the spirit because it is the nature of the Christians to do so. This bearing of fruit is not always easy since a born-again Christian, after he is saved, has two natures within that are always warring with each other. The natural man against the spiritual man.
@trencher7 I wouldn't call obedience works, as far as salvation goes, when the scriptures do not call it that. You are correct though, "It's His grace that makes it all possible. That's what Paul was getting at. We have nothing to boast of since mankind can never on his own overcome spiritual death as a result of sin."
@trencher7 You say, “God simply chooses to save those who do his will.” You are correct. What is God’s will? Obey the gospel and be saved. Good fruit will follow. If good works, good fruit, does not follow salvation by faith, then there was no salvation in the first place.
@trencher7 “Works alone without faith will not save” as you put it, is confusing the gospel. Scripture teaches that no amount of human goodness, human works, human morality, or religious activity can gain acceptance with God or get anyone into heaven.
@trencher7 Romans 1:18-3:8, the Apostle Paul declares that both Jews and Greeks are under sin, that “there is no one righteous, not even one” (Rom. 3:9-10).
@trencher7 Jesus, in telling this man to sell all that he had, was showing that the man was trusting in the wrong thing. He was trusting in his riches to earn himself salvation instead of trusting in Jesus and His gospel. See Mark 10:24,
@trencher7 The same thing happens in In Matt. 19:17-19. Jesus tells the young man that eternal life comes by keeping the commandments. Jesus is showing the man that anyone who can perfectly keep the law cannot be accused of being a lawbreaker (James 2:10). He also, was trusting in the wrong thing.
@trencher7 Jesus’ conversation with these young men was not meant to be didactic. The fact that Jesus was challenging them to do something Jesus knew they couldn’t or wouldn’t do, their reaction was clear as to what they were trusting in.
@trencher7 Acts 16:30-31, the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas: “. . . ‘Sirs, what must I do to be saved?’ And they said, ‘Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved . . . .’ ”
When God drew me to Jesus Christ (John 6:44 –“No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”), and I heard the gospel, and obeyed what God said I needed to do to be saved, I obeyed Him and He saved me. He did the work in my heart.
@trencher7 I did whatever I was told by God. I didn’t think about whether it was a work or not. At that point, I wasn’t worried about what was works and what wasn’t works. I didn’t know much about that stuff yet. But, I knew my wicked condition and enough of the gospel to tell me I needed a savior to save me from God’s wrath.
@trencher7 I didn’t want to end up in hell which is where I was headed and I knew it. When God drew me, He gave me faith to believe the gospel. I knew I was a wicked sinner, deserving God’s wrath, condemnation and punishment. That’s repentance.
@trencher7 I saw I was a lost soul. I saw myself as God sees me. Not how man sees me but how God sees me. My salvation produces good works (Howbeit, not as much as I want) and if doing good works is a condition to keep me saved to get me into heaven, then I wouldn’t make it. God’s grace means unmerited favor. I didn’t deserve (merit) God’s grace before I Got saved, how could I merit keeping it after I got saved?
@trencher7 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”
@trencher7 Rom 8:37-39 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Salvation - Not a process as Tanner states. 1 John 5:13 "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." No process here either. He makes God a liar!
@diesbl Sure it is. You also need to repent throughout your life and continue following Jesus. Unless you think you can be saved without repenting. Repentance itself can be considered a process.
@trencher7 - Is repentance necessary for salvation?" Of course, this is of utmost importance, We have to repent only of the thing that makes us unsaved, and that is unbelief. You say, “Repentance itself can be considered a process.” If you are meaning continued repentance being a process to save us or keep us saved, then no. Salvation is not a process as I said.
1. Metanoeo. This is a compound word. “Meta” means change “noeo” means thinking. This word is derived from “nous” which means mind. So, metanoeo means to “change your mind”
2. Metamellamai. This is also a compound word. “Meta” means change “mellamai” means emotions. It means to have a “change of emotions”.
@trencher7 You are correct in saying that the unrepentant will not be saved. They won’t be. But, what you are saying is that salvation is a continued process of repentance. What you are saying is that a “Christian” that is “unrepentant” by not continuing to repent of his sins throughout his life, over and over and over, will not be saved.
@trencher7 How can a person become a Christian without first repenting? You put a Christian in the same category as a sinner (unsaved, unrepentant), as if they share a common attribute.
@trencher7 Salvation that is a continual act of repentance is a salvation by works and trial and not scriptural. Salvation comes by faith in Christ alone. Believing is a non-meritorious act and requires nothing of us except a change of mind.
@trencher7 When someone tries to add “repenting of sin” or emotionalism to the free gift of God he is saying that what Jesus Christ did for us is not enough. Bible repentance is a change of mind, prompted by a change of heart, resulting in a change of life.
@trencher7 If you're asking me personally, I am a born-again Christian..saved...have been saved for 35 years...if you're talking about anyone else that has been truly born-again, then why would they need to be saved again now?
@trencher7 What "Evangelicals"? By this statement, are you referring to a Christian church believing in personal conversion and the inerrancy of the Bible? Or as in evangelical Christianity or those that have a ultraconservative evangelical message?
@trencher7 I am an "Evangelical" Christian you could say I guess and am one of those ultraconservatives. I don't know where you get your information but I have never met any of these "Evangelicals" that say or as you put it "always saying Christ didn't do enough when they proclaim damnation to all those who disagree with their creedal doctrines"
in my 35 years of walking with the Lord. "Christ didn't do enough"? WHAT!
@trencher7 I think what you are meaning is God (not Evangelicls) proclaim damnation to all those who disagree with His creedial doctrines. Evangelicls only repeat what God has already said to those who disagree with His Biblical doctrines. Only those that believe and teach that God didn't do enough, really mean that Christ's work on the cross at Calvary, wasn't enough so they want to add their good works to the gospel of Christ. This is Not an Evangelicl belief or message.
@trencher7 Evangelicalism - Evangelicals - key commitments are: The need for personal conversion (or being "born again"); A high regard for biblical authority; An emphasis on teachings that proclaim the saving death and resurrection of the Son of God, Jesus Christ; Actively expressing and sharing the gospel
@trencher7 Universalist? Universalist Church of America? Unitarian Universalism?
Universalism is a school of So called “Christian” theology which includes the belief in the doctrine of universal reconciliation, the view that all human beings or all fallen creatures will ultimately be restored to right relationship with God. Not hardly!! What gave you that idea? Universalist and Evangelical are two seperate entities. Not even close!
@trencher7 I never said He did. What I said was, concerning the gospel doctrine of salvation, good works does not come into the picture. Salvation plus works is not what the Bible teaches. After one is born-again (saved) we should do good works, as the scriptures say, abide (continue) in good works. Not to be saved, or to get saved, but we do good works BECAUSE we are saved. Of course works are part of the gospel (good news). We are to grow in Christ Jesus and be comformed to His image.
They really need to move the microphone away from that woman who keeps giggling and talking. How rude she is. Maybe she needs to have the decency to remove herself from this room! She acts like a young child and not an adult.
2 Peter 3:16 "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
Tanner is pretty decisively wrong but I am quite impressed that he at least tried to display some facts and critical thought, for the most part that never comes into play with a common Mormon who just goes to temple and never questions or thinks critically about their beliefs.
Just remember mormons...the situation you are in is completely understood. Born into it, family is buried in it, your friends may not like you if you change, but there is one immutable point you HAVE to remember. YOU and only YOU are responsible for your destiny in the end. You will not leave this earth with your family or friends when you die. YOU WILL DIE ALONE. The next 'stop' is up to you. Trust in the Lord ONLY. Trust in the Bible only. There was NO apostasy. Jesus never left us.
@cr500blur You said the Bible is all there is then I showed you many verses that says there are sacred scriptures that were left out. That proves the Book of Mormon is true when it says there were many plain and precious things removed. So no, it's not meaningless.
@majinish - Well, I picked three of the verses you gave me and they don't have anything to do with what you're talking about. If you call that proof, then you don't have the ability to understand, and nothing I say is going to make any difference. Concentrate on the end result and the real question. What if you're wrong? Joey and Briggey won't be holding your hand when you die. You will die alone....in your sins.
@cr500blur You mean other than the fact that they, along with the list of other verses I gave, say there are books outside the Bible. Guess you don't believe in the Bible as much as you claim.
@"What if you're wrong?" I've received a witness from the Holy Ghost that the church is true so there is no "what if I'm wrong". The church is true & it's Jesus Christ's church and that's a fact.
@majinish - Sorry, none of those verses tell me that at all. Your lack of understanding somehow makes you think I don't follow the Bible. Your reasoning is of course in error. Where did the supposed witness come from? You cannot prove it, and I'm willing to bet you know it. Talk to any ex-mormon, and they will confirm that what you're saying is not true. You are all living a lie and you know it.
@cr500blur I don't have a lack of understanding at all. I gave you a list of not just 3 verses but many that say there are other books outside the Bible. You say you follow the Bible then you say what's in the Bible is it. The Bible says otherwise that's why you do not follow the Bible as well as you say. And I live according to the truth.
@cr500blur For one, the list I gave. You say the Bible is all there is while the Bible itself proves there's more. We don't "justify" our beliefs. We believe in the truth. And I've explained stuff on here you've tried to talk about but you simply dismiss what has been said.
@majinish - I'm not dismissing anything. Site the verse and then explain how that means what you say. Then I will tell you what I think it says. I stand by the Bible and Jesus, now you prove your theorems. My theory is that it doesn't mean what you think it says. Site the verse.
@majinish - Well, I guess I can understand why you are in this cult. You're not that bright. I give you...
Exo 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. NOT PROOF
1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: NOT PROOF
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, NOT PROOF
@cr500blur Jesus Christ's church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, isn't a cult. Those verses give specific proof. The Book of the Covenant is the name of what was read out of. There's an epistle to the Corinthians prior to 1 & 2 Corinthians. Paul wrote down some things that haven't been shown. Those verses are great examples of proof.
@majinish - No use in arguing with you. You're obviously deluded. They're all in the Bible about the Bible. NONE of them talk about things to come that will be written. Good luck...you're going to need it.
@cr500blur Revelation 14:6 talks about scriptures are, well in today's context it's have already, come since the Book of Mormon is here. The Bible and Book of Mormon are true. The Bible proves there are true sacred texts outside of itself.
@majinish - The Bible is true and the BOM is a false doctrine. Your ability to read is seriously impaired.
Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
The everlasting gospel is the salvation of the world thru Christs atonement spoken of in the Bible. It takes serious error to make the stretch you did. I find it hard to believe then I don't...
@cr500blur No, they're both true. I can read just fine. I didn't stretch anything. See what I mean? You'll try your best, regardless of how wrong you are, to dismiss everything I say despite the fact that the Bible backs up what I have said. Revelation 14:6 refers to the Book of Mormon.
@majinish - How wrong I am? I am using the Bible and intelligence. Rev 14:6 is out in the future after the Rapture of the church (body of believers), and you 'think' it was in the past. Can't argue with you about it because you don't have an argument. You are going to have to TRY and get it thru your head that it is at least possible for you to be stretching the scripture to fit your belief. You shouldn't have to try to hard if you were honest. The veil is DEFINITELY over your eyes.
@cr500blur You're using the Bible but not intelligence. And I -know- Revelation 14:6 has been fulfilled. All you critics say is we don't have an argument. I gave my argument as well as verses from the Bible CORRECTLY. No, I'm not stretching the scriptures. I read and study them and I understand them. And I am honest. When I say the Bible proves the Book of Mormon is true I'm being 100% honest. I feel sorry for anyone that talks against something sacred according to God.
@majinish Wellll, you have honestly misinterpreted that scripture and, I'm sure, many more. You see...you are finding a way to make the scriptures of the only true word of God FIT your religion. No one else outside of the lds would EVER make that connection. If this were a court case, it would be thrown out, as it doesn't even remotely characterize evidence. That's why Christians feel sorry for those who don't follow the Word of God as it is given by God IN THE BIBLE. Try again...
@cr500blur No, I got the scripture correct. I don't try to make them fit anything. I simply explain what the scriptures teach. We Mormons are Christians. It's not up to people to say someone isn't a Christian. We follow and believe in Jesus Christ so that makes us Christians. I already gave a list of verses straight from the Bible that says there are other books. I don't have to try again because I've been correct with what I've said.
@majinish - Soooo everyone else is wrong. Sorry you're in the minority...
Christian - an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as recorded in the Canonical gospels and the letters of the New Testament.
I suppose you want to change the definition of marriage too. Sorry, you don't get to. There's nothing in that scripture or the other ones that means what you think. You don't decide, the Bible is clear. You are not. You are lost...
@cr500blur No, not everyone. Just those that get the scriptures incorrect. And monotheistic means non-trinitarian. Oh, and a closed canon is an unbiblical concept. Yes, we Mormons are Christians. We're not lost, we're members of Jesus Christ's church. If you don't think so that's your -problem-.
@majinish "Just those that get the scriptures incorrect." Translation: Only I can correctly understand the scriptures because I belong the only true church. "And monotheistic means non-trinitarian." You sound like a oneness Pentecostal now. JWS believe that as well. But I see you are continuing having pusedo-debates on the internet where you can never be challenged in any way shape or form. You can make all your assertions, but never get into exegete passages, or face real cross examination...
from your debate opponent live on camera in front of a real, live audience. That's what so sad. You think you are good, but I wonder how you would fair under those circumstances? You and Catholic29 are both two of a kind. Stay safe behind your keyboard majinish. Perhaps one day you will have the guts to do a real debate.But I doubt you ever will.
@majinish - But, most mormons are wrong. The only scriptures are in the Bible. Monotheistic is one God, you're wrong as usual. Closed canon - wrong again. Noooo, mormons in general are not Christian, they're smithian. Not the Jesus of the Bible. It's not my problem, it's yours. You stick to your group (lost), and we'll stick to ours (found). You have been wrong in every area, and don't see it at all. You are truly lost.
@cr500blur Well I haven't been wrong yet about the scriptures. The Bible itself says there are other scriptures. To say the Bible is all there is is to go against the Bible. Making a closed canon was just to shut a group up in early history, it had nothing to do with the scriptures themselves. Yes, we're Christians. We believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible who is the same Jesus Christ of the Book of Mormon. I'm not the one lost here. Sorry but that's a fact.
@majinish "Well I haven't been wrong yet about the scriptures." You keep proving my point. Making these assertions without any fear of being crossed examined by an opponent who is well versed in the scriptures, live, in a public debate. You continue repeating yourself about your superiority, but it means nothing to any one except you. When's that real debate going to take place there majinish?
@TheJpgr1958 And yet you and others also repeat yourselves so you don't have an argument. You haven't given anything to debate. As it's been shown, regardless of you people being told what the truth is, you dismiss it.
@majinish "And yet you and others also repeat yourselves so you don't have an argument." Pot meet kettle. "You haven't given anything to debate." And neither have you except your "height from Olympus" statement that no one should ever discuss Scripture with you for you study the Bible and that no one else has it correct except you and your church. Arrogent JW, I mean Moonie, Darn, I mean Roman Catholic... You believe you are above reproach.
@majinish "As it's been shown, regardless of you people being told what the truth is, you dismiss it." Once again, pot meet kettle. More dribble from you who stays safe behind your keyboard. When are you going to come out from behind that and engage in a REAL debate majinish? WE are waiting.
@majinish "You don't give anything to debate." AND YOU DO?? That's a joke. Your type of debate and debating skills are akin to the WWF, which is a phony version of wrestling. Characters like Hulk Hogan, Randy "Macho" Man Savage (RIP), are all colorful characters created for nothing but entertainment, but if they were ever to get into a REAL wrestling match where true wrestling skills would be required, they would lose. They are for show, much like you. You have no substance, no knowledge of..
@TheJpgr1958 1st of all I don't care for idiots that look at my profile. By the way, to wrestle now in something like the WWE you have to have at least 4-5 years of real wrestling experience so try to not make a fool out of yourself. I have great knowledge of the scriptures. I'm not just saying that, it's a simple fact.
@majinish - Well, you obviously have a hard time interpreting them. Understanding them in your heart based on what your religion teaches is totally different from general interpretation from the ORIGINAL Greek and Hebrew. Think about it.....everyone else in the last 2000 years was wrong and somehow you're right? Not going to happen, just from logic alone. Then again, you would have to be able to think logically.
@majinish - your version or description or version of the Holy Ghost is probably a demon. The bottom line has been the same all along. I have proved over and over and over that you are incorrect and yet there you stand proud as can be, restating the stoopid name of your church over and over and over as some sort of proof. Wrong then, wrong now, wrong in the future. No man can serve two masters and that is what you're doing.
There......no go ahead and deny everything as usual...
@cr500blur No, it is the Holy Ghost, not a demon. You haven't proven anything once. And wow, call the name of Jesus Christ's church stupid? That's not going to go over well with God the Father or Jesus Christ. I serve Jesus Christ and I'm a member of his church.
@majinish - sorry, it's the name of the lds church and basically blasphemy to be putting Jesus' name in it. What did Orson say...
"...the most cunning, wicked, bold, deep-laid impositions ever palmed upon the world, calculated to deceive and ruin millions who sincerely receive it as the Word of God, and will suppose themselves built upon the rock of truth, until they are plunged, with their families, into hopeless despair."
He hit the nail on the head and many are deluded...including you...
@cr500blur The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints is Jesus Christ's church. Telling you the truth isn't blasphemy. This is Jesus Christ's church. The one deluded here is you, not me. I follow Jesus Christ. You put down his teachings and his church.
@majinish - Now pay attention, and stop repeating yourself. Typing the name of your organization IS NOT PROOF. Jesus Christ's church is His body of believers on the earth, not some stoopid organization dreamed up by some guy that got kicked out of every state moving toward Utah. I have proven you wrong in every case without question and you are too deluded to see. Jesus' teachings are found in the Bible, and they are directly contradicted by blasphemous false teachings of the lds. Period.
@cr500blur Jesus Christ's church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. You haven't proven me wrong on anything. You say I repeat stuff yet all you say is "I've proven you wrong". No, you haven't. Not once have you done what you claim. Jesus' teachings are found in the Bible and Book of Mormon. We teach Jesus Christ's teachings and that's a fact.
@majinish - Why not concentrate on learning something instead of sitting there repeating this garbage like some kind of spoon-fed robot. You're not going to get anywhere with real Christians, because we believein and follow ONLY THE BIBLE. Watch this video series on the problems with your own organization...it oughta make you feel sick.
@cr500blur If you believe in everything the Bible says then you would not say the Bible is all there is since the Bible proves there are other books. I gave a list of verses already. I am a real Christian. I'm a biblical Christian. No such thing as Mormonism vs Christianity. Mormonism IS Biblical Christianity. I don't really have to watch it because I've seen different videos like this. They're not impressive at all.
@majinish - "...the Bible proves there are other books.". No it doesn't. Proof is factual evidence one can put their finger on, like the Dead Sea Scrolls. Not what you feel.
"I don't really have to watch it...". See, you won't test the scripture or your 'feelings', like the Bible says to. So if you are this so-called Christian, then you would investigate all that you can get your hands so that you are as informed as you can be. But you guys don't. You believe everyone else is lying...but
@cr500blur I even gave you a list of verses from the Bible that talk about other books and I mean more than 3. I know the scriptures and I have tested how I feel. I know what I feel is based on the truth, not a distorted version like what you claim the Bible teaches. I believe in what it really teaches.
@majinish - Exactly what scripture did I distort? You are so funny. I take three of your examples that don't mean what you say they do and I am the one doing the distorting. Ha, that's a laugh. I'm getting the feeling that you are pulling everyone's leg on this subject. No one could possibly be this deluded and be considered a serious person.
@cr500blur Those 3 even talk about books outside the Bible yet you say the Bible says it's all there is. Those 3 aren't even all the verses I gave you. Did you even read all the verses? Going by your ignorant comments I'm guessing no.
@majinish "JESUS CHRIST ISN'T ENOUGH. YOU NEED JOSEPH SMITH AND THE LDS CHURCH." This statement was given by a Mormon that goes by the name UtahMormon90. Do you agree with this?
@TheJpgr1958 That's the guy's personal opinion, not doctrine of Jesus Christ's church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I don't agree with his opinion but again, his opinion and nothing more.
@TheJpgr1958 He and I might both be members of Jesus Christ's church but what he believes is his opinion. I believe in what's taught by Jesus Christ's teachings which are taught by his church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God but he nor any other prophet or apostle including Abraham, Peter, Isaiah, Paul, or anyone else will get to you the Father or His kingdom except the Lord Jesus Christ. Thats what his church & the scriptures teach.
@majinish "There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188). Majinish is wrong." This is what UtahMormon90 just stated to me about your response about it being just his opinion.
@majinish - Your problem, though, is that Jesus Christ's church is His body of believers. 'Member...it says it in the Bible you say you believe in. Not some organization or building or group MAN created. This is your problem. It is taught to us in His Bible, not by some building down the street that doesn't even have the respect to represent His atonement with the cross. Scary stuff...
@majinish - It is all that there is. You seem to be insinuating that God the Father makes mistakes, or changed His mind, or didn't do it right the first time. Unfortunately for your theory, the Bible is God's Word and He didn't make a mistake, sooooooooo he didn't need 'other books'. As for the other verses, I picked 3 randomly and NONE of them say anything LITERALLY or figuratively about your idea. NONE OF THEM. Go to the ORIGINAL language and stop arguing for the English version.
@cr500blur The Bible doesn't teach it's all there is. Still waiting to see if you read the other verses I gave. Have you? The Bible and Book of Mormon are the word of God. Yes, they do speak literally of other books. So far all you've done is show you don't believe in EVERYTHING the Bible teaches.
@majinish - Weelllllll, so far you have chosen not to check out anything I just wrote about. 'Member.... Isaiah 43:10, to mention just one. We don't need to talk about anything else, even though I could point out many, many discrepancies. Just stick to that scripture. If not, then don't bother to respond. If you won't check that out and can't learn from that, there is no point in talking about anything else. That one is as plain as day, and you still don't get it. 'Member.......God or god
@majinish - Yea, that's it, I didn't pay attention. Sorry, Maj, I don't have that problem. You did say...
"It's not saying there are no other divine beings."
Nooooooo, really? We're talking about the subject of other gods here, Mr. Pay Attention, not divine beings. The scripture doesn't say 'divine beings', it says God and gods. One upper case (God the Father or Abba) and the other is lower case (idols, men). The scripture literally has God STATING there are no other gods.
@majinish - Here...pay attention to this and use some of that enormous skill of the Bible to explain away these stoopid comments from previous deluded lds leaders...
"The Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, Justification By Faith in Jesus Christ is called a "pernicious doctrine" twice and he states that it has been "an influence for evil." (pp. 107, 480) Bruce McConkie once stated that a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is "improper and perilous" (Church News, March 20, 1982, p. 5)"
@cr500blur I see that majinish has finally (hopefully)left the building. He's a typical Mormon who thinks they have the whole gospel, when in reality, they have no more truth than a JW, Roman Catholic, Moonie, Oneness, who all claim the exact same thing, and are just as deluded and lost as the Mormons are. If he does come back, I suggest to ignore him because all he does is spew out his testimony which means nothing. Keep up the great job though in defending the true Gospel of the REAL Jesus!!
@TheJpgr1958 - It's never stopped being amazing in the last 20 years how deluded these people are when I have had discussions with them. They have never understood the simplicity of God's plan through His Son. That is because the delusion they believe in is straight from you know who. They don't understand that Satan will use any means necessary to keep God's creation away from Him. And gee, look what their cult does to them if they question anything......YOU'RE OUT.
@majinish "There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188). Majinish is wrong." This is what UtahMormon90 just stated to me about your response about it being just his opinion. Would you care to respond?
@majinish - they aren't. They're just examples of people who have done the research, like in that video. When a thinking person sees all of the discrepancies, it is very easy to determine that you have been had. Do the research, get informed, and get on the winning team. That team calls themselves Christians, they follow the Bible, and your leaders in the past have called them another type of Christian. I can call myself Steve, but that doesn't make me a Steve. Get it. Be Christian ONLY.
@cr500blur Well you haven't told the truth so means you're lying. Like I said, I've looked into the claims from critics as well as the history of the church. I'm on God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost's side so I am on the winning team. We are Christians regardless of what others say. We're Biblical Christians.
@majinish - Well then, my confused friend who says all this dribble....explain Isaiah 43:10...you know the one from the Bible, you know the one you say you believe in and follow, the one your organization says is only as good as it is translated. A real Christian would take it for what it says in English, that was carefully translated from the original Hebrew, that says God is the only God. not one of many gods. Ouch, you have now been painted into a corner. Time to pull the persecution card.
@cr500blur I'm not the one confused here. Isaiah 43:10 doesn't contradict what we teach. You should try reading Psalms 86:8. Since Yahweh is eternal that means nobody can be exalted before or after him because there is no before or after eternity. It's not saying there are no other divine beings. In fact the Bible states there are. Not in a corner.
@majinish - Ohhhhhh yes you are. That's what's funny about you and other mormons. You're dead wrong and have no idea that you are. YOUR argument is based on YOUR understanding of the English words used in the Old Testament as a translation of the original Hebrew text. Where God the Father had many names, YOU have chosen to dwell on the English version, apparently NEVER bothering to check the concordances. You could have even used your KJV to make the comparisons to actually learn....
@majinish - Here's the (YOUR) problem. In the Bible, there are multiple names used for God the Father such as Yĕhovah, Adonai, Elohim, etc. In the original Hebrew, Elohim was translated to singular and plural, God & gods. The definition of gods ('el) is god-like, mighty men, or rulers. When God the Father is spoken of, the term Yĕhovah is used. In other words, what is being spoken of is the Creator and the created. Those gods are idols, not other Yĕhovah's. He told us there are none else.
@cr500blur - To get at least an idea of what one person knows from his research and from being on both sides of the fence, start listening at about the 5 minute mark of part 17 of that video I referenced. He will tell you the differences in doctrine between what he knew as a mormon and then what he found out in 3 months of research. if you won't at least check it out, you are proving once again that you are not like main stream Christians.......who do check things out.
the rules of debate, just throwing out endless dribble on the internet, where you are pretty much free to state anything you like without any worries of real face to face interaction with your opponent, feeling safe behind your keyboard. So no matter how good YOU THINK you are in debate, you have proven nothing because you are scared and unwilling to be involved in a REAL debate where you would fold. So keep on pretending.
@majinish - Your version of facts don't fit with the rest of society. That makes you part of the minority. You're so stubbornly misguided, you would probably try to prove to me that you're not human. Go ahead and think what you want...you'll be wrong then too. If I were you, I would be just a little bit worried if someone continued to say that I was wrong. It shows how close-minded you are. Oh well, the world need ditch diggers too. Good luck to you when Jesus scoffs at you...
@cr500blur Yet mine fits perfectly with the Bible and God. I don't care about "fitting in" with society. I choose the side of truth which is what society is usually against just as you are. I've studied the Bible not by what people say but by the Holy Ghost. So you're saying the Holy Ghost misguides? Good luck with that. It's not a matter of just what I think, it's what I know.
@cr500blur The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints being Jesus Christ's church is more than what I believe, it's what I know to be a true fact. The problem with your "if I were you" is I know I'm right with what I've said. I follow Jesus Christ therefore I have nothing to be worried about. I'm not close-minded, I simply prefer sticking with the truth. Again, I follow Jesus Christ and Jesus doesn't scoff his true followers.
@majinish - Let's see if you can follow this...you follow a religion that was founded by a guy back in the 19th century who said the following...
"Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet"
Anyone who claims to be Christian and follow the Jesus of the Bible AND doesn't have a problem with this statement is just plain stoopid. And there's more...
@cr500blur I follow Jesus Christ and I'm a member of Jesus Christ's church. The religion actually started when Jesus Christ was first on the earth. The apostasy took place after the apostles were killed off & his church needed to be restored.
@majinish - The 'CHURCH' is the body of believers following the gospel that he presented to the world that was written about in the BIBLE. These was no apostasy. That, my ignoring friend, is lds teaching and not biblical.
Annnnnnnd off to the races you'll go.......and that's just ONE lds belief that is off the charts stoopid. Just remember....the bigger the lie, the easier it is to believe. Don't be a sucker. Stick with the BIBLE.
@cr500blur @"The 'CHURCH' is the body of believers following the gospel that he presented to the world" One Lord, one faith, one baptism. You have Baptist, Methodist, etc. No, they do not follow the gospel that was presented. If they did then they would not be separate denominations.
@"These was no apostasy. That, my ignoring friend, is lds teaching and not biblical" Wrong as usual. If you read the Bible you'd know there was an apostasy.
@majinish - "they would not be separate denominations"
Oh really? Did you come up with that one or maybe it's lds teaching. Wrong again. The denominations come from slight disagreements from within the Bible. There is hardly any disagreement on the gospel itself. Oh and BTW, what about all of the sects or mormoism. I suppose you have another dumb answer for that as well.
If you could read and comprehend you wouldn't be wrong AGAIN. None of your examples proves a damn thing.
@majinish - I suggest coming up with a nice long explanation that you are going to have to give to Jesus when you are judged. Your blasphemy beliefs have got you on a direct line straight to hell when you pass on. I can only imagine the look on your face of surprise when you find yourself in a very dark place wondering how the heck you got there. That is exactly where you will be as long as you continue to praise anyone or anything outside of Jesus.
@cr500blur I follow Jesus Christ so I'll be fine. What I believe in is the truth. I know where I'll be and that's with God the Father and Jesus Christ.
@cr500blur Yea, critics try to use that quote. Jesus himself said he'd have followers that would do works greater than what he did.
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Any of you out there who would like a clear understanding of where scripture came from and why it IS from God, read and learn. Don't listen to the cults...they are here to deceive...
Do not fall for the teachings of any false gospel, as they are accursed.
2 Jn.9-11 Everyone who goes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of Christ does not have God; the one who remains in the teaching, this person has both the Father and the Son. If someone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house and do not speak a greeting to him. For the one who speaks a greeting to him makes himself a partner in his wicked works.
24And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying: 25having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
(The Bible and Book of Mormon support each other and speak of the same Jesus Christ.)
@majinish - you're wasting your time trying to prove your Christianity. I can pick any number of lds beliefs that are commonly known as excluding you and any mormon from being a Christian. It doesn't matter what word you stick in front of it, you're still not Christian. Christian is a description of a belief system that was here long before lds fantasy. You must be in favor of changing the definition of marriage too. Get it. You guys don't get to change the definition of Christianity...
@cr500blur No, you don't have the authority to say if someone is or isn't a Christian. We are Christians because we believe in Jesus Christ and we follow his teachings. Yes, we're Christians.
@majinish - It's not about authority. It's the definition...
Certain Christian doctrines constitute the core of the faith. Central doctrines include the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the bodily resurrection, the atoning work of Christ on the cross, and salvation by grace through faith. These doctrines so comprise the essence of the Christian faith that to remove any of them is to make the belief system non-Christian.
I would also add multiple scriptures which lds have scoffed at. Period...
@cr500blur Don't try having a discussion with this fool. He's a arrogent tool who thinks he is superior on the scriptures and that no one should try to debate him. Yet he will never engage in a real scholastic debate. If he did, most of things he states here on youtube would never be allowed. He would be laughed right out of the building and he knows it. But he thinks he's knowledgeable, and that's the sad part. He is just like a fellow who goes by the name of mormonanswerman, who when asked...
if he would be willing to have a real scholastic debate via skype with an individual, he backed down so fast, it was hilarious. These two fellows are safer behind their respective keyboards, where they do not have to look at their opponent in the eyes and answer the tough questions about their faith. They would play, and they have, the anit-Mormon card in order to get out of any discussion.
@TheJpgr1958 - For them it is hard to change everything they have ever known, to the point where they have deluded themselves. Relationships with family, friends, neighbors, spouses......all of it could end if they start following Christian doctrine and denying the lds teachings that came from false prophets. That's what is so funny....they'll deny the truth to keep from being black-balled by their own fanatical followers. Scary stuff indeed...
23Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words, and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them—Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them.
("Your words" refers to when Nephi tells those he teaches of Jesus Christ.)
The Bible speaks of Jesus being nailed to a cross for the sins of mankind. The Book of Mormon tells that Jesus Christ had nail prints in his hands and feet when he visited the multitude.
16And when they had all gone forth and had witnessed for themselves, they did cry out with one accord, saying: 17Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.
15And it came to pass that the multitude went forth, and thrust their hands into his side, and did feel the prints of the nails in his hands and in his feet; and this they did do, going forth one by one until they had all gone forth, and did see with their eyes and did feel with their hands, and did know of a surety and did bear record, that it was he, of whom it was written by the prophets, that should come.
1 John 3:2 “Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.” Romans 8:16 “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:” I John 5:13 "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."
diesbl 3 weeks ago
How saved are you when you might fall away and discover you were never saved in the first place? How do you know you will "endure to the end"? "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."
trencher7 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 You might as well ask, how saved are you when you're saved? If a person has been really saved, (God's way – John 14:6; John 20:31; Acts 16:31) how can you discover later that you weren't saved in the first place?
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 God, in His plan of salvation by grace, doesn't play games. Rom 8:16 “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:” One either believes God or he doesn’t. If one is saved God’s way, then later he doesn’t find out he is not saved.
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 Fall away? How can that happen? John 6:44 “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” Changing one's mind about sin and the Savior, trusting upon the Lord for forgiveness, it is at that very moment of faith that the Holy Spirit comes to indwell that person forever
diesbl 3 weeks ago
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diesbl 3 weeks ago
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@trencher7 The Holy Spirit doesn’t just come and go. John 10:27-30 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 Rom 8:9-11 “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@diesbl Those are great scriptures. Heb 5:9 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"
So obedience is a requirement for salvation. I would consider obedience a work. Works don;t earn us salvation, God simply chooses to save those who do his will. When the man asked Jesus how to be saved, Jesus did not say "Just believe!", but asked the man to do a work (sell all that he had). Of course works alone without faith will not save.
trencher7 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 – “So obedience is a requirement for salvation.” You ask. Yes! Your words have truth, as I quoted them here. It could be said to be a requirement or condition for salvation. But it is not a work.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@diesbl Eph. 2:8-9 “For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not of works, so that no one can boast.” One can twist the word obey around and call it a work or works. When they do this, they can claim (boast) that they took part in the grace of God.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@diesbl God’s salvation is a free gift, given by His grace. How can one take part in it by any work? The free gift becomes an earned gift. What does God’s word say and demand or require…that’s what counts. God says to obey the gospel. Do the condition, do the requirement….which is to obey the gospel.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@diesbl How do you define "work"? Even though the Lord asks us to participate in our salvation none of it "earns" us Salvation. There's nothing wrong with calling our obedience as works as long as you aren't assuming they make God obligated to save us. It's His grace that makes it all possible. That's what Paul was getting at. We have nothing to boast of since mankind can never on his own overcome spiritual death as a result of sin.
trencher7 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 My defining "work" - The outward expression of inward faith. Faith and works are inseparable - Jesus is the source of works for those who have faith, and those works are presented as "fruit." A Christian bears fruits of the spirit because it is the nature of the Christians to do so. This bearing of fruit is not always easy since a born-again Christian, after he is saved, has two natures within that are always warring with each other. The natural man against the spiritual man.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 I wouldn't call obedience works, as far as salvation goes, when the scriptures do not call it that. You are correct though, "It's His grace that makes it all possible. That's what Paul was getting at. We have nothing to boast of since mankind can never on his own overcome spiritual death as a result of sin."
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 You say, “God simply chooses to save those who do his will.” You are correct. What is God’s will? Obey the gospel and be saved. Good fruit will follow. If good works, good fruit, does not follow salvation by faith, then there was no salvation in the first place.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 “Works alone without faith will not save” as you put it, is confusing the gospel. Scripture teaches that no amount of human goodness, human works, human morality, or religious activity can gain acceptance with God or get anyone into heaven.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 Romans 1:18-3:8, the Apostle Paul declares that both Jews and Greeks are under sin, that “there is no one righteous, not even one” (Rom. 3:9-10).
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 Jesus, in telling this man to sell all that he had, was showing that the man was trusting in the wrong thing. He was trusting in his riches to earn himself salvation instead of trusting in Jesus and His gospel. See Mark 10:24,
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 The same thing happens in In Matt. 19:17-19. Jesus tells the young man that eternal life comes by keeping the commandments. Jesus is showing the man that anyone who can perfectly keep the law cannot be accused of being a lawbreaker (James 2:10). He also, was trusting in the wrong thing.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 Jesus’ conversation with these young men was not meant to be didactic. The fact that Jesus was challenging them to do something Jesus knew they couldn’t or wouldn’t do, their reaction was clear as to what they were trusting in.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 Acts 16:30-31, the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas: “. . . ‘Sirs, what must I do to be saved?’ And they said, ‘Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved . . . .’ ”
When God drew me to Jesus Christ (John 6:44 –“No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”), and I heard the gospel, and obeyed what God said I needed to do to be saved, I obeyed Him and He saved me. He did the work in my heart.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 I did whatever I was told by God. I didn’t think about whether it was a work or not. At that point, I wasn’t worried about what was works and what wasn’t works. I didn’t know much about that stuff yet. But, I knew my wicked condition and enough of the gospel to tell me I needed a savior to save me from God’s wrath.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 I didn’t want to end up in hell which is where I was headed and I knew it. When God drew me, He gave me faith to believe the gospel. I knew I was a wicked sinner, deserving God’s wrath, condemnation and punishment. That’s repentance.
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 I saw I was a lost soul. I saw myself as God sees me. Not how man sees me but how God sees me. My salvation produces good works (Howbeit, not as much as I want) and if doing good works is a condition to keep me saved to get me into heaven, then I wouldn’t make it. God’s grace means unmerited favor. I didn’t deserve (merit) God’s grace before I Got saved, how could I merit keeping it after I got saved?
diesbl 2 weeks ago
@trencher7 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 Rom 8:37-39 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
diesbl 3 weeks ago
Salvation - Not a process as Tanner states. 1 John 5:13 "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." No process here either. He makes God a liar!
diesbl 2 months ago
@diesbl Sure it is. You also need to repent throughout your life and continue following Jesus. Unless you think you can be saved without repenting. Repentance itself can be considered a process.
trencher7 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 - Is repentance necessary for salvation?" Of course, this is of utmost importance, We have to repent only of the thing that makes us unsaved, and that is unbelief. You say, “Repentance itself can be considered a process.” If you are meaning continued repentance being a process to save us or keep us saved, then no. Salvation is not a process as I said.
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@diesbl The unrepentant will not be saved. A Christian who chooses to no longer ceases to repent will not be saved. Tell me, how does one repent?
trencher7 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 You tell me what the word "repent" means in the Bible.
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 Greek - Repentance
1. Metanoeo. This is a compound word. “Meta” means change “noeo” means thinking. This word is derived from “nous” which means mind. So, metanoeo means to “change your mind”
2. Metamellamai. This is also a compound word. “Meta” means change “mellamai” means emotions. It means to have a “change of emotions”.
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 You are correct in saying that the unrepentant will not be saved. They won’t be. But, what you are saying is that salvation is a continued process of repentance. What you are saying is that a “Christian” that is “unrepentant” by not continuing to repent of his sins throughout his life, over and over and over, will not be saved.
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 How can a person become a Christian without first repenting? You put a Christian in the same category as a sinner (unsaved, unrepentant), as if they share a common attribute.
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 How can a person call himself a Christian if he needs a whole lifetime of repentance to become one?
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 Salvation that is a continual act of repentance is a salvation by works and trial and not scriptural. Salvation comes by faith in Christ alone. Believing is a non-meritorious act and requires nothing of us except a change of mind.
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 When someone tries to add “repenting of sin” or emotionalism to the free gift of God he is saying that what Jesus Christ did for us is not enough. Bible repentance is a change of mind, prompted by a change of heart, resulting in a change of life.
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@diesbl So you don't need to repent in order to be saved now??
trencher7 3 weeks ago
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diesbl 3 weeks ago
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@trencher7 If you're asking me personally, I am a born-again Christian..saved...have been saved for 35 years...if you're talking about anyone else that has been truly born-again, then why would they need to be saved again now?
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@diesbl Evangelicals are always saying Christ didn't do enough when they proclaim damnation to all those who disagree with their creedal doctrines.
trencher7 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 What "Evangelicals"? By this statement, are you referring to a Christian church believing in personal conversion and the inerrancy of the Bible? Or as in evangelical Christianity or those that have a ultraconservative evangelical message?
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@diesbl Just about every Evengelical who has attacked my beliefs.
trencher7 3 weeks ago
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@trencher7 I am an "Evangelical" Christian you could say I guess and am one of those ultraconservatives. I don't know where you get your information but I have never met any of these "Evangelicals" that say or as you put it "always saying Christ didn't do enough when they proclaim damnation to all those who disagree with their creedal doctrines"
in my 35 years of walking with the Lord. "Christ didn't do enough"? WHAT!
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 I think what you are meaning is God (not Evangelicls) proclaim damnation to all those who disagree with His creedial doctrines. Evangelicls only repeat what God has already said to those who disagree with His Biblical doctrines. Only those that believe and teach that God didn't do enough, really mean that Christ's work on the cross at Calvary, wasn't enough so they want to add their good works to the gospel of Christ. This is Not an Evangelicl belief or message.
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@diesbl I didn't know you were a universalist.
trencher7 3 weeks ago
@trencher7 Evangelicalism - Evangelicals - key commitments are: The need for personal conversion (or being "born again"); A high regard for biblical authority; An emphasis on teachings that proclaim the saving death and resurrection of the Son of God, Jesus Christ; Actively expressing and sharing the gospel
diesbl 3 weeks ago
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diesbl 3 weeks ago
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@trencher7 Universalist? Universalist Church of America? Unitarian Universalism?
Universalism is a school of So called “Christian” theology which includes the belief in the doctrine of universal reconciliation, the view that all human beings or all fallen creatures will ultimately be restored to right relationship with God. Not hardly!! What gave you that idea? Universalist and Evangelical are two seperate entities. Not even close!
diesbl 3 weeks ago
@diesbl God did not say we should not abide in good works or that they were no part of the gospel.
trencher7 3 weeks ago
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diesbl 3 weeks ago
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@trencher7 I never said He did. What I said was, concerning the gospel doctrine of salvation, good works does not come into the picture. Salvation plus works is not what the Bible teaches. After one is born-again (saved) we should do good works, as the scriptures say, abide (continue) in good works. Not to be saved, or to get saved, but we do good works BECAUSE we are saved. Of course works are part of the gospel (good news). We are to grow in Christ Jesus and be comformed to His image.
diesbl 3 weeks ago
They really need to move the microphone away from that woman who keeps giggling and talking. How rude she is. Maybe she needs to have the decency to remove herself from this room! She acts like a young child and not an adult.
diesbl 2 months ago
2 Peter 3:16 "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
diesbl 2 months ago
Luke 18:19 "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."
diesbl 2 months ago
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Tanner is pretty decisively wrong but I am quite impressed that he at least tried to display some facts and critical thought, for the most part that never comes into play with a common Mormon who just goes to temple and never questions or thinks critically about their beliefs.
godswordsheal 4 months ago
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godswordsheal 4 months ago
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godswordsheal 4 months ago
There are many scriptures that tell us what is coming in the future, but one is very specific...
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Hell is very real and millions are there. Fear God, trust Jesus, and repent by turning to Him.
cr500blur 6 months ago 2
Just remember mormons...the situation you are in is completely understood. Born into it, family is buried in it, your friends may not like you if you change, but there is one immutable point you HAVE to remember. YOU and only YOU are responsible for your destiny in the end. You will not leave this earth with your family or friends when you die. YOU WILL DIE ALONE. The next 'stop' is up to you. Trust in the Lord ONLY. Trust in the Bible only. There was NO apostasy. Jesus never left us.
cr500blur 6 months ago 2
Book of the Covenant, an epistle prior to 1 Corinthians, and another letter to the Ephesians.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - well, that would be meaningless, per the current conversation...
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur You said the Bible is all there is then I showed you many verses that says there are sacred scriptures that were left out. That proves the Book of Mormon is true when it says there were many plain and precious things removed. So no, it's not meaningless.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - Well, I picked three of the verses you gave me and they don't have anything to do with what you're talking about. If you call that proof, then you don't have the ability to understand, and nothing I say is going to make any difference. Concentrate on the end result and the real question. What if you're wrong? Joey and Briggey won't be holding your hand when you die. You will die alone....in your sins.
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur You mean other than the fact that they, along with the list of other verses I gave, say there are books outside the Bible. Guess you don't believe in the Bible as much as you claim.
@"What if you're wrong?" I've received a witness from the Holy Ghost that the church is true so there is no "what if I'm wrong". The church is true & it's Jesus Christ's church and that's a fact.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - Sorry, none of those verses tell me that at all. Your lack of understanding somehow makes you think I don't follow the Bible. Your reasoning is of course in error. Where did the supposed witness come from? You cannot prove it, and I'm willing to bet you know it. Talk to any ex-mormon, and they will confirm that what you're saying is not true. You are all living a lie and you know it.
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur I don't have a lack of understanding at all. I gave you a list of not just 3 verses but many that say there are other books outside the Bible. You say you follow the Bible then you say what's in the Bible is it. The Bible says otherwise that's why you do not follow the Bible as well as you say. And I live according to the truth.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - Name one verse, copy it in here and explain who it justifies your belief...
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur For one, the list I gave. You say the Bible is all there is while the Bible itself proves there's more. We don't "justify" our beliefs. We believe in the truth. And I've explained stuff on here you've tried to talk about but you simply dismiss what has been said.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - I'm not dismissing anything. Site the verse and then explain how that means what you say. Then I will tell you what I think it says. I stand by the Bible and Jesus, now you prove your theorems. My theory is that it doesn't mean what you think it says. Site the verse.
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur If you're not dismissing anything why did you try to dismiss 3 verses that are straight out saying there are books outside of the Bible?
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - Well, I guess I can understand why you are in this cult. You're not that bright. I give you...
Exo 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. NOT PROOF
1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: NOT PROOF
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, NOT PROOF
Still waiting...
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur Jesus Christ's church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, isn't a cult. Those verses give specific proof. The Book of the Covenant is the name of what was read out of. There's an epistle to the Corinthians prior to 1 & 2 Corinthians. Paul wrote down some things that haven't been shown. Those verses are great examples of proof.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - No use in arguing with you. You're obviously deluded. They're all in the Bible about the Bible. NONE of them talk about things to come that will be written. Good luck...you're going to need it.
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur Revelation 14:6 talks about scriptures are, well in today's context it's have already, come since the Book of Mormon is here. The Bible and Book of Mormon are true. The Bible proves there are true sacred texts outside of itself.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - The Bible is true and the BOM is a false doctrine. Your ability to read is seriously impaired.
Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
The everlasting gospel is the salvation of the world thru Christs atonement spoken of in the Bible. It takes serious error to make the stretch you did. I find it hard to believe then I don't...
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur No, they're both true. I can read just fine. I didn't stretch anything. See what I mean? You'll try your best, regardless of how wrong you are, to dismiss everything I say despite the fact that the Bible backs up what I have said. Revelation 14:6 refers to the Book of Mormon.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - How wrong I am? I am using the Bible and intelligence. Rev 14:6 is out in the future after the Rapture of the church (body of believers), and you 'think' it was in the past. Can't argue with you about it because you don't have an argument. You are going to have to TRY and get it thru your head that it is at least possible for you to be stretching the scripture to fit your belief. You shouldn't have to try to hard if you were honest. The veil is DEFINITELY over your eyes.
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur You're using the Bible but not intelligence. And I -know- Revelation 14:6 has been fulfilled. All you critics say is we don't have an argument. I gave my argument as well as verses from the Bible CORRECTLY. No, I'm not stretching the scriptures. I read and study them and I understand them. And I am honest. When I say the Bible proves the Book of Mormon is true I'm being 100% honest. I feel sorry for anyone that talks against something sacred according to God.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish Wellll, you have honestly misinterpreted that scripture and, I'm sure, many more. You see...you are finding a way to make the scriptures of the only true word of God FIT your religion. No one else outside of the lds would EVER make that connection. If this were a court case, it would be thrown out, as it doesn't even remotely characterize evidence. That's why Christians feel sorry for those who don't follow the Word of God as it is given by God IN THE BIBLE. Try again...
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur No, I got the scripture correct. I don't try to make them fit anything. I simply explain what the scriptures teach. We Mormons are Christians. It's not up to people to say someone isn't a Christian. We follow and believe in Jesus Christ so that makes us Christians. I already gave a list of verses straight from the Bible that says there are other books. I don't have to try again because I've been correct with what I've said.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - Soooo everyone else is wrong. Sorry you're in the minority...
Christian - an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as recorded in the Canonical gospels and the letters of the New Testament.
I suppose you want to change the definition of marriage too. Sorry, you don't get to. There's nothing in that scripture or the other ones that means what you think. You don't decide, the Bible is clear. You are not. You are lost...
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur No, not everyone. Just those that get the scriptures incorrect. And monotheistic means non-trinitarian. Oh, and a closed canon is an unbiblical concept. Yes, we Mormons are Christians. We're not lost, we're members of Jesus Christ's church. If you don't think so that's your -problem-.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish "Just those that get the scriptures incorrect." Translation: Only I can correctly understand the scriptures because I belong the only true church. "And monotheistic means non-trinitarian." You sound like a oneness Pentecostal now. JWS believe that as well. But I see you are continuing having pusedo-debates on the internet where you can never be challenged in any way shape or form. You can make all your assertions, but never get into exegete passages, or face real cross examination...
TheJpgr1958 6 months ago
from your debate opponent live on camera in front of a real, live audience. That's what so sad. You think you are good, but I wonder how you would fair under those circumstances? You and Catholic29 are both two of a kind. Stay safe behind your keyboard majinish. Perhaps one day you will have the guts to do a real debate.But I doubt you ever will.
TheJpgr1958 6 months ago
@majinish - But, most mormons are wrong. The only scriptures are in the Bible. Monotheistic is one God, you're wrong as usual. Closed canon - wrong again. Noooo, mormons in general are not Christian, they're smithian. Not the Jesus of the Bible. It's not my problem, it's yours. You stick to your group (lost), and we'll stick to ours (found). You have been wrong in every area, and don't see it at all. You are truly lost.
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur Well I haven't been wrong yet about the scriptures. The Bible itself says there are other scriptures. To say the Bible is all there is is to go against the Bible. Making a closed canon was just to shut a group up in early history, it had nothing to do with the scriptures themselves. Yes, we're Christians. We believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible who is the same Jesus Christ of the Book of Mormon. I'm not the one lost here. Sorry but that's a fact.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish "Well I haven't been wrong yet about the scriptures." You keep proving my point. Making these assertions without any fear of being crossed examined by an opponent who is well versed in the scriptures, live, in a public debate. You continue repeating yourself about your superiority, but it means nothing to any one except you. When's that real debate going to take place there majinish?
TheJpgr1958 6 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 And yet you and others also repeat yourselves so you don't have an argument. You haven't given anything to debate. As it's been shown, regardless of you people being told what the truth is, you dismiss it.
majinish 6 months ago
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@majinish "And yet you and others also repeat yourselves so you don't have an argument." Pot meet kettle. "You haven't given anything to debate." And neither have you except your "height from Olympus" statement that no one should ever discuss Scripture with you for you study the Bible and that no one else has it correct except you and your church. Arrogent JW, I mean Moonie, Darn, I mean Roman Catholic... You believe you are above reproach.
TheJpgr1958 6 months ago
@majinish "As it's been shown, regardless of you people being told what the truth is, you dismiss it." Once again, pot meet kettle. More dribble from you who stays safe behind your keyboard. When are you going to come out from behind that and engage in a REAL debate majinish? WE are waiting.
TheJpgr1958 6 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 And you say I go in circles? You don't give anything to debate.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish "You don't give anything to debate." AND YOU DO?? That's a joke. Your type of debate and debating skills are akin to the WWF, which is a phony version of wrestling. Characters like Hulk Hogan, Randy "Macho" Man Savage (RIP), are all colorful characters created for nothing but entertainment, but if they were ever to get into a REAL wrestling match where true wrestling skills would be required, they would lose. They are for show, much like you. You have no substance, no knowledge of..
TheJpgr1958 6 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 1st of all I don't care for idiots that look at my profile. By the way, to wrestle now in something like the WWE you have to have at least 4-5 years of real wrestling experience so try to not make a fool out of yourself. I have great knowledge of the scriptures. I'm not just saying that, it's a simple fact.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - you just have a problem with comprehension and understanding...pretty typical of people who don't know how ignorant they are...
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur When it comes to the scriptures I have no problem with understanding them.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - Well, you obviously have a hard time interpreting them. Understanding them in your heart based on what your religion teaches is totally different from general interpretation from the ORIGINAL Greek and Hebrew. Think about it.....everyone else in the last 2000 years was wrong and somehow you're right? Not going to happen, just from logic alone. Then again, you would have to be able to think logically.
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur No, I don't have a hard time interpreting the scriptures. I understand them by the Holy Ghost, not by what you claim they teach.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - your version or description or version of the Holy Ghost is probably a demon. The bottom line has been the same all along. I have proved over and over and over that you are incorrect and yet there you stand proud as can be, restating the stoopid name of your church over and over and over as some sort of proof. Wrong then, wrong now, wrong in the future. No man can serve two masters and that is what you're doing.
There......no go ahead and deny everything as usual...
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur No, it is the Holy Ghost, not a demon. You haven't proven anything once. And wow, call the name of Jesus Christ's church stupid? That's not going to go over well with God the Father or Jesus Christ. I serve Jesus Christ and I'm a member of his church.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - sorry, it's the name of the lds church and basically blasphemy to be putting Jesus' name in it. What did Orson say...
"...the most cunning, wicked, bold, deep-laid impositions ever palmed upon the world, calculated to deceive and ruin millions who sincerely receive it as the Word of God, and will suppose themselves built upon the rock of truth, until they are plunged, with their families, into hopeless despair."
He hit the nail on the head and many are deluded...including you...
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints is Jesus Christ's church. Telling you the truth isn't blasphemy. This is Jesus Christ's church. The one deluded here is you, not me. I follow Jesus Christ. You put down his teachings and his church.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - Now pay attention, and stop repeating yourself. Typing the name of your organization IS NOT PROOF. Jesus Christ's church is His body of believers on the earth, not some stoopid organization dreamed up by some guy that got kicked out of every state moving toward Utah. I have proven you wrong in every case without question and you are too deluded to see. Jesus' teachings are found in the Bible, and they are directly contradicted by blasphemous false teachings of the lds. Period.
cr500blur 6 months ago
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@cr500blur Jesus Christ's church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. You haven't proven me wrong on anything. You say I repeat stuff yet all you say is "I've proven you wrong". No, you haven't. Not once have you done what you claim. Jesus' teachings are found in the Bible and Book of Mormon. We teach Jesus Christ's teachings and that's a fact.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - Why not concentrate on learning something instead of sitting there repeating this garbage like some kind of spoon-fed robot. You're not going to get anywhere with real Christians, because we believein and follow ONLY THE BIBLE. Watch this video series on the problems with your own organization...it oughta make you feel sick.
youtube dotcom slash watch?v=Z3ZnpAVBCH0&NR=1
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur If you believe in everything the Bible says then you would not say the Bible is all there is since the Bible proves there are other books. I gave a list of verses already. I am a real Christian. I'm a biblical Christian. No such thing as Mormonism vs Christianity. Mormonism IS Biblical Christianity. I don't really have to watch it because I've seen different videos like this. They're not impressive at all.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - "...the Bible proves there are other books.". No it doesn't. Proof is factual evidence one can put their finger on, like the Dead Sea Scrolls. Not what you feel.
"I don't really have to watch it...". See, you won't test the scripture or your 'feelings', like the Bible says to. So if you are this so-called Christian, then you would investigate all that you can get your hands so that you are as informed as you can be. But you guys don't. You believe everyone else is lying...but
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur I even gave you a list of verses from the Bible that talk about other books and I mean more than 3. I know the scriptures and I have tested how I feel. I know what I feel is based on the truth, not a distorted version like what you claim the Bible teaches. I believe in what it really teaches.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - Exactly what scripture did I distort? You are so funny. I take three of your examples that don't mean what you say they do and I am the one doing the distorting. Ha, that's a laugh. I'm getting the feeling that you are pulling everyone's leg on this subject. No one could possibly be this deluded and be considered a serious person.
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur Those 3 even talk about books outside the Bible yet you say the Bible says it's all there is. Those 3 aren't even all the verses I gave you. Did you even read all the verses? Going by your ignorant comments I'm guessing no.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish "JESUS CHRIST ISN'T ENOUGH. YOU NEED JOSEPH SMITH AND THE LDS CHURCH." This statement was given by a Mormon that goes by the name UtahMormon90. Do you agree with this?
TheJpgr1958 6 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 That's the guy's personal opinion, not doctrine of Jesus Christ's church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I don't agree with his opinion but again, his opinion and nothing more.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish "I don't agree with his opinion but again, his opinion and nothing more." Ummmm, but he is a Mormon like you, correct?
TheJpgr1958 6 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 He and I might both be members of Jesus Christ's church but what he believes is his opinion. I believe in what's taught by Jesus Christ's teachings which are taught by his church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God but he nor any other prophet or apostle including Abraham, Peter, Isaiah, Paul, or anyone else will get to you the Father or His kingdom except the Lord Jesus Christ. Thats what his church & the scriptures teach.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish "There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188). Majinish is wrong." This is what UtahMormon90 just stated to me about your response about it being just his opinion.
TheJpgr1958 6 months ago
@majinish - Your problem, though, is that Jesus Christ's church is His body of believers. 'Member...it says it in the Bible you say you believe in. Not some organization or building or group MAN created. This is your problem. It is taught to us in His Bible, not by some building down the street that doesn't even have the respect to represent His atonement with the cross. Scary stuff...
cr500blur 6 months ago
@majinish - It is all that there is. You seem to be insinuating that God the Father makes mistakes, or changed His mind, or didn't do it right the first time. Unfortunately for your theory, the Bible is God's Word and He didn't make a mistake, sooooooooo he didn't need 'other books'. As for the other verses, I picked 3 randomly and NONE of them say anything LITERALLY or figuratively about your idea. NONE OF THEM. Go to the ORIGINAL language and stop arguing for the English version.
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur The Bible doesn't teach it's all there is. Still waiting to see if you read the other verses I gave. Have you? The Bible and Book of Mormon are the word of God. Yes, they do speak literally of other books. So far all you've done is show you don't believe in EVERYTHING the Bible teaches.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - Weelllllll, so far you have chosen not to check out anything I just wrote about. 'Member.... Isaiah 43:10, to mention just one. We don't need to talk about anything else, even though I could point out many, many discrepancies. Just stick to that scripture. If not, then don't bother to respond. If you won't check that out and can't learn from that, there is no point in talking about anything else. That one is as plain as day, and you still don't get it. 'Member.......God or god
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur I answered the part about Isaiah 43:10 or did you just choose to not pay attention?
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish Why won't you respond to what UtahMormon90 stated about your statement?
TheJpgr1958 6 months ago
@majinish - Yea, that's it, I didn't pay attention. Sorry, Maj, I don't have that problem. You did say...
"It's not saying there are no other divine beings."
Nooooooo, really? We're talking about the subject of other gods here, Mr. Pay Attention, not divine beings. The scripture doesn't say 'divine beings', it says God and gods. One upper case (God the Father or Abba) and the other is lower case (idols, men). The scripture literally has God STATING there are no other gods.
Period
cr500blur 6 months ago
@majinish - Here...pay attention to this and use some of that enormous skill of the Bible to explain away these stoopid comments from previous deluded lds leaders...
"The Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, Justification By Faith in Jesus Christ is called a "pernicious doctrine" twice and he states that it has been "an influence for evil." (pp. 107, 480) Bruce McConkie once stated that a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is "improper and perilous" (Church News, March 20, 1982, p. 5)"
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur I see that majinish has finally (hopefully)left the building. He's a typical Mormon who thinks they have the whole gospel, when in reality, they have no more truth than a JW, Roman Catholic, Moonie, Oneness, who all claim the exact same thing, and are just as deluded and lost as the Mormons are. If he does come back, I suggest to ignore him because all he does is spew out his testimony which means nothing. Keep up the great job though in defending the true Gospel of the REAL Jesus!!
TheJpgr1958 6 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 - It's never stopped being amazing in the last 20 years how deluded these people are when I have had discussions with them. They have never understood the simplicity of God's plan through His Son. That is because the delusion they believe in is straight from you know who. They don't understand that Satan will use any means necessary to keep God's creation away from Him. And gee, look what their cult does to them if they question anything......YOU'RE OUT.
cr500blur 6 months ago 2
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@majinish "There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188). Majinish is wrong." This is what UtahMormon90 just stated to me about your response about it being just his opinion. Would you care to respond?
TheJpgr1958 6 months ago
@majinish - they aren't. They're just examples of people who have done the research, like in that video. When a thinking person sees all of the discrepancies, it is very easy to determine that you have been had. Do the research, get informed, and get on the winning team. That team calls themselves Christians, they follow the Bible, and your leaders in the past have called them another type of Christian. I can call myself Steve, but that doesn't make me a Steve. Get it. Be Christian ONLY.
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur Well you haven't told the truth so means you're lying. Like I said, I've looked into the claims from critics as well as the history of the church. I'm on God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost's side so I am on the winning team. We are Christians regardless of what others say. We're Biblical Christians.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - Well then, my confused friend who says all this dribble....explain Isaiah 43:10...you know the one from the Bible, you know the one you say you believe in and follow, the one your organization says is only as good as it is translated. A real Christian would take it for what it says in English, that was carefully translated from the original Hebrew, that says God is the only God. not one of many gods. Ouch, you have now been painted into a corner. Time to pull the persecution card.
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur I'm not the one confused here. Isaiah 43:10 doesn't contradict what we teach. You should try reading Psalms 86:8. Since Yahweh is eternal that means nobody can be exalted before or after him because there is no before or after eternity. It's not saying there are no other divine beings. In fact the Bible states there are. Not in a corner.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - Ohhhhhh yes you are. That's what's funny about you and other mormons. You're dead wrong and have no idea that you are. YOUR argument is based on YOUR understanding of the English words used in the Old Testament as a translation of the original Hebrew text. Where God the Father had many names, YOU have chosen to dwell on the English version, apparently NEVER bothering to check the concordances. You could have even used your KJV to make the comparisons to actually learn....
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur My argument is based on the scriptures and what they really teach, not what you claim they teach.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - Here's the (YOUR) problem. In the Bible, there are multiple names used for God the Father such as Yĕhovah, Adonai, Elohim, etc. In the original Hebrew, Elohim was translated to singular and plural, God & gods. The definition of gods ('el) is god-like, mighty men, or rulers. When God the Father is spoken of, the term Yĕhovah is used. In other words, what is being spoken of is the Creator and the created. Those gods are idols, not other Yĕhovah's. He told us there are none else.
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur - To get at least an idea of what one person knows from his research and from being on both sides of the fence, start listening at about the 5 minute mark of part 17 of that video I referenced. He will tell you the differences in doctrine between what he knew as a mormon and then what he found out in 3 months of research. if you won't at least check it out, you are proving once again that you are not like main stream Christians.......who do check things out.
cr500blur 6 months ago
the rules of debate, just throwing out endless dribble on the internet, where you are pretty much free to state anything you like without any worries of real face to face interaction with your opponent, feeling safe behind your keyboard. So no matter how good YOU THINK you are in debate, you have proven nothing because you are scared and unwilling to be involved in a REAL debate where you would fold. So keep on pretending.
TheJpgr1958 6 months ago
@majinish - Your version of facts don't fit with the rest of society. That makes you part of the minority. You're so stubbornly misguided, you would probably try to prove to me that you're not human. Go ahead and think what you want...you'll be wrong then too. If I were you, I would be just a little bit worried if someone continued to say that I was wrong. It shows how close-minded you are. Oh well, the world need ditch diggers too. Good luck to you when Jesus scoffs at you...
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur Yet mine fits perfectly with the Bible and God. I don't care about "fitting in" with society. I choose the side of truth which is what society is usually against just as you are. I've studied the Bible not by what people say but by the Holy Ghost. So you're saying the Holy Ghost misguides? Good luck with that. It's not a matter of just what I think, it's what I know.
majinish 6 months ago
@cr500blur The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints being Jesus Christ's church is more than what I believe, it's what I know to be a true fact. The problem with your "if I were you" is I know I'm right with what I've said. I follow Jesus Christ therefore I have nothing to be worried about. I'm not close-minded, I simply prefer sticking with the truth. Again, I follow Jesus Christ and Jesus doesn't scoff his true followers.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - Let's see if you can follow this...you follow a religion that was founded by a guy back in the 19th century who said the following...
"Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet"
Anyone who claims to be Christian and follow the Jesus of the Bible AND doesn't have a problem with this statement is just plain stoopid. And there's more...
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur I follow Jesus Christ and I'm a member of Jesus Christ's church. The religion actually started when Jesus Christ was first on the earth. The apostasy took place after the apostles were killed off & his church needed to be restored.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - The 'CHURCH' is the body of believers following the gospel that he presented to the world that was written about in the BIBLE. These was no apostasy. That, my ignoring friend, is lds teaching and not biblical.
Annnnnnnd off to the races you'll go.......and that's just ONE lds belief that is off the charts stoopid. Just remember....the bigger the lie, the easier it is to believe. Don't be a sucker. Stick with the BIBLE.
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur @"The 'CHURCH' is the body of believers following the gospel that he presented to the world" One Lord, one faith, one baptism. You have Baptist, Methodist, etc. No, they do not follow the gospel that was presented. If they did then they would not be separate denominations.
@"These was no apostasy. That, my ignoring friend, is lds teaching and not biblical" Wrong as usual. If you read the Bible you'd know there was an apostasy.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - "they would not be separate denominations"
Oh really? Did you come up with that one or maybe it's lds teaching. Wrong again. The denominations come from slight disagreements from within the Bible. There is hardly any disagreement on the gospel itself. Oh and BTW, what about all of the sects or mormoism. I suppose you have another dumb answer for that as well.
If you could read and comprehend you wouldn't be wrong AGAIN. None of your examples proves a damn thing.
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur The Bible proves the Book of Mormon is true so since I believe in what the Bible says then I also believe in the Book of Mormon.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - I suggest coming up with a nice long explanation that you are going to have to give to Jesus when you are judged. Your blasphemy beliefs have got you on a direct line straight to hell when you pass on. I can only imagine the look on your face of surprise when you find yourself in a very dark place wondering how the heck you got there. That is exactly where you will be as long as you continue to praise anyone or anything outside of Jesus.
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur I follow Jesus Christ so I'll be fine. What I believe in is the truth. I know where I'll be and that's with God the Father and Jesus Christ.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - If, and only if, you follow His gospel and not man's...
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur Considering we teach Jesus Christ's gospel I do follow his gospel.
majinish 6 months ago
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@cr500blur Yea, critics try to use that quote. Jesus himself said he'd have followers that would do works greater than what he did.
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
You should read the Bible more.
majinish 6 months ago
Not to mention......obviously there is so much material here to relate, it falls into Hitler ville. The bigger the lie....
Why the attack on Christianity over the years? Because they are not...
dub dub dub dot mission dotorgslash jesuspeople slash mormatak.htm
cr500blur 6 months ago
Quotes:
Mc Conkie: One of the great heresies of modern Christendom is the unfounded assumption that the Bible contains all of the inspired teachings.
LDS: [Men]...can gain a better understanding of the doctrines of salvation through the Book of Mormon than they can through the Bible.
Hinckey: The traditional Christ of whom they [non-Mormons] speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.
Brigey: they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity.
Sorry bud...you're not Christian...
cr500blur 6 months ago
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'...after all we can do'
scary stuff considering....
'For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment'
cr500blur 6 months ago
Any of you out there who would like a clear understanding of where scripture came from and why it IS from God, read and learn. Don't listen to the cults...they are here to deceive...
carm dot org christianity sermons 2-timothy-316-all-scripture-inspired
cr500blur 6 months ago
Do not fall for the teachings of any false gospel, as they are accursed.
2 Jn.9-11 Everyone who goes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of Christ does not have God; the one who remains in the teaching, this person has both the Father and the Son. If someone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house and do not speak a greeting to him. For the one who speaks a greeting to him makes himself a partner in his wicked works.
cr500blur 6 months ago
24And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying: 25having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
(The Bible and Book of Mormon support each other and speak of the same Jesus Christ.)
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - you're wasting your time trying to prove your Christianity. I can pick any number of lds beliefs that are commonly known as excluding you and any mormon from being a Christian. It doesn't matter what word you stick in front of it, you're still not Christian. Christian is a description of a belief system that was here long before lds fantasy. You must be in favor of changing the definition of marriage too. Get it. You guys don't get to change the definition of Christianity...
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur No, you don't have the authority to say if someone is or isn't a Christian. We are Christians because we believe in Jesus Christ and we follow his teachings. Yes, we're Christians.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - It's not about authority. It's the definition...
Certain Christian doctrines constitute the core of the faith. Central doctrines include the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the bodily resurrection, the atoning work of Christ on the cross, and salvation by grace through faith. These doctrines so comprise the essence of the Christian faith that to remove any of them is to make the belief system non-Christian.
I would also add multiple scriptures which lds have scoffed at. Period...
cr500blur 6 months ago
@cr500blur Don't try having a discussion with this fool. He's a arrogent tool who thinks he is superior on the scriptures and that no one should try to debate him. Yet he will never engage in a real scholastic debate. If he did, most of things he states here on youtube would never be allowed. He would be laughed right out of the building and he knows it. But he thinks he's knowledgeable, and that's the sad part. He is just like a fellow who goes by the name of mormonanswerman, who when asked...
TheJpgr1958 6 months ago
if he would be willing to have a real scholastic debate via skype with an individual, he backed down so fast, it was hilarious. These two fellows are safer behind their respective keyboards, where they do not have to look at their opponent in the eyes and answer the tough questions about their faith. They would play, and they have, the anit-Mormon card in order to get out of any discussion.
TheJpgr1958 6 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 - For them it is hard to change everything they have ever known, to the point where they have deluded themselves. Relationships with family, friends, neighbors, spouses......all of it could end if they start following Christian doctrine and denying the lds teachings that came from false prophets. That's what is so funny....they'll deny the truth to keep from being black-balled by their own fanatical followers. Scary stuff indeed...
cr500blur 6 months ago
23Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words, and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them—Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them.
("Your words" refers to when Nephi tells those he teaches of Jesus Christ.)
majinish 6 months ago
The Bible speaks of Jesus being nailed to a cross for the sins of mankind. The Book of Mormon tells that Jesus Christ had nail prints in his hands and feet when he visited the multitude.
majinish 6 months ago
16And when they had all gone forth and had witnessed for themselves, they did cry out with one accord, saying: 17Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.
(Most High God refers to God the Father)
majinish 6 months ago
15And it came to pass that the multitude went forth, and thrust their hands into his side, and did feel the prints of the nails in his hands and in his feet; and this they did do, going forth one by one until they had all gone forth, and did see with their eyes and did feel with their hands, and did know of a surety and did bear record, that it was he, of whom it was written by the prophets, that should come.
majinish 6 months ago