WE WANT PART 3! It has been years... you have left us all hanging. I miss the 240p space battles. I believe, and I think many will agree with me, your videos are the definitive battles. Everything else on youtube is complete crap. HOW WILL IT END?? please come back captainshuttle.
From what I hear, he and rifleman80 decided not to make a new one because of all the n00bs and their flamewar, and possibly real attacks on the authors.
From an avid fan of both, to all you trekkers and Jedi freaks, stop nit picking and just enjoy this person's productions and appreciate their intent. I, for one, find them quite entertaining.
If your not making a new one because you think it's starting a flame war, well you must be a nazi against free speech. I live in a country called the United States of America. The first amendment is the right to free speech. So go suck it.
even if they could beat the Federation back, the Romulans and possibly the Klingons would use their cloaking devices to wage a guerilla war against the empire. BTW. I'm a fan of both but SW has serious holes in their tech like letting ships through their shields. The Klingons would just board the Super Star Destroyer and either sabotage it or capture it. Unless Vader or the Emporer were onboard the Klingons wouldn't have much trouble with the red shirts er I mean storm troopers.
@TheUnknowable2 uh, ships only go through shields if they want them to, IE if they are launching fighters or whatnot out of the hangar, one could theoretically fly in at the same time. Otherwise attempting to do so would result in them splattering against the shielding. Klingons would be slaughtered by Stormtroopers, the myth that Stormtroopers are poor fighters and Klingons are somehow a force to be reckoned with is just that, a myth.
@Perion Ignoring Non-canon: Blaster weapons cannot penetrate "magnetic seals" or "ray shields" at all. Starfleet Shields are both. Not to mention, the old Enterprise can destroy cities with just it's phasers, (torpedoes are more powerful) and can level an M-class planet's surface, as per the Original Series episodes "Mirror, Mirror", and "A Taste of Armageddon". The old Enterprise is 86 years old in Trek time, making it the OUTDATED MODEL. *Trek* wins.
@TheUnknowable2 The Empire are familiar with far more sophisticated Cloaking Devices (ones that create absolutely no emissions whatsoever) and have a nifty way of detecting even them.
@1993Warbirds Star Trek's science makes even less sense, Star Wars doesn't even try to explain how their tech works, which quite honestly is for the best.
This is very interesting. I find it funny that people compare two completely different universes, that aren't really comparable. People always forget that there is more than just starfleet in the galaxy for some reason. Also, according to lucas, the empire ended with the last movie in the original trilogy anyway. According to sw canon, if it cannot be supported in the movies, it didn't happen. So much for all those novels and "tech" books, eh?
@uni4rm actually according to sw canon if it is outright contradicted by the movies, it didn't happen. It doesn't need movie support, it just needs the movies to not contradict it. plain and simple
They can be compared, their capabilities can be defined, measured and thus compared. The Two are different galaxies yes, but "completely different universes" ? not necessarily.
the defiant can beat the entire star wars galaxy, even the death star (its only slightly larger than the millenium falcon so it could fire its guided quantum torpedoes at the core). If that doesnt work, Voyager can just launch a couple tricobalt devices, and if THAT doesnt work, we can pray to the Prophets to unleash the Borg.
@17MrBob01 not really for the fire power coming from one shot of a turbo laser battery can blast through the sheilds through the hull dont beleive me look up the power out puts of each
you do realize if the mikly way galaxy was going to be lost starfleet would not be fighting alone the domion romulians klingons and just about every major power would be fiightig along side but looks good
@Perion Well, they did take out one of the three ships at the outpost. If they can get the Romulans to help, they could take out the other two ships. The destroyer wouldn't have time to get it's defenses up if a Warbird decloaked.
Q would never allow this shit to go down. Vader: You have no idea about the power of the dark side of the force. Q: Your idiot I am the force. Q turns Darth Vader into a can of soup, and crushes the eperor with a dirty looks. Trek wins.
@McMahonHater Q wouldn't care, he never stopped the Dominion, or the Borg or the Klingons or interfered with any galactic politics (it's beneath the Q to concern themselves with such things) not even in any of those alternate universes where the Federation lost.
@McMahonHater No he doesn't, he doesn't owe either one of them anything, sure they did favours for him but he already paid them back for them in the show.
@Perion So Q doesn't oh Picard for saving his life when he was stripped of his powers? And Q doesn't owe Janeway for playing Godmother to Q JR ? What exactly did he do to pay them back? And what makes you so sure Q won't get involved just because he'd like to dick with the Emperor and his Sith Lord.
@McMahonHater Not as far as Q is concerned, he payed his debt to them already, helping to save humanity in "All good things".
Dicking around is one thing, If he's done similar things to the Dominion, Klingons and Romulans that he's done to the Federation, then I have no doubt he would do similar things to the Empire.
He will NOT however rescue the Federation from being conquered by the Empire, any more than he would save them from being assimilated by the Borg, or annihilated by the Dominion.
@Perion He would if he thought it would be entertaining. However I just remembered something today when I was going to a job interview, that went well for the record, In an episode of the original Star Trek called Erand of Mercy they intoduce a species called Organian's who were able to stop a conflict between the Fed's and the Klingons just by thinking about it. And not just on there world but across the entire quarant. Both sides were rendered powerless.
@McMahonHater Granted the Organians didn't join the UFP in that episode, but I don't think they would allow Palpatine's Galactic Empire to kill millions (or even billions) when they could stop it with a mere thought.
Heaven help the Empire if Talosian's take an interest in their invation.
@McMahonHater Neither the Organians or the Talosians did anything to stop the Dominion from slaughtering billions, so neither one of them would be likely to do anything come the Empire invading.
@Perion In what episode of DS9 did the Dominion "slaughter billion" I think you are getting your information from the wrong pace. The Dominion bairly even got hold of DS9 before they were beaten. The Organians and Tolosians were probably aware that the Federation and it's allies could handle them in the long run, but as you point out the Empire is at an entirely different level.
@Perion It was projected, but it's not what happened. They were stopped long before they were even that far into the quadrent. Most of the deaths ended up on Cardasia Prime, and the major battle that finally won the war. There is no way they lost 900 billion people in the end. Projection don't mean shit.
@McMahonHater The Projection means everything, Bashir never considered the involvement of the Organians or Talosians or any of the others to be a possibility, writing them off as non-combatants etc, It shows that they cannot be counted on. If 900 billion lives were destroyed those races would do nothing about it, it's none of their concern.
@Perion I can claim that if I want, there is no proof to say other wise. Considering Jedi can see glimpses of the future why can the Organians. As Spock said "They are as far above use as we are an amoeba". In the end, despite all their abilities a Jedi is still just a mortal being, Organains are more powerful then them as well.
@McMahonHater Actually there is plenty of proof to say otherwise,
Them not interfering because of knowing the Federation would win is retarded, and shows that you weren't paying anywhere near enough attention to the episode. Need I remind you that in "Errand of Mercy" the Organians didn't care who would win, as far as t hey were concerned the Federation was just as bad as the Klingons.
The only interference they have ever shown is stopping one war that was being started on their doorstep.
Neither they nor any other race have interfered in any other War the Federation have gone into, not even in all the alternate universes and timelines where the Borg rampage across the galaxy, or where the Klingons and/or Cardassians do the same.
@Perion Really? At what point in the episode do the Organians state the limits to their abilities. At what point is it said they don't have the power of Prcognition? Don't you think an Empirial invation would eventually come to their door step?
Besides, the big claim is that nobody in the Trek Univerce could stop the Empire, and I have given at least 2 examples of races that could, and with out breaking a sweat. So you are officialy proven wrong.
@McMahonHater Sorry, but races who don't care enough to stop the empire don't count, which is why I didn't include them.
I can list 5 races in Trek that could, but none of them would.
I never said the Organians can't tell the future. I'm saying It doesn't matter, none of the omni races did anything about the Borg or the whatnot that came in and conquered the Alpha Quadrant in all those alternate universes, there's no reason to assume they would in the prime universe either.
@Perion Yes they do, because you arguement wasn't "Who would stop them" but that nobody could stop them. Besides it's sceince fiction, and we could write it anyway we want it to go. So if in my verion the Organians would step in to serve the greater good when they are really needed most, then thats how it goes. However you would right it, is up to you.
Sorry, but they don't, because they have no bearing on the outcome, you are arguing semantics while completely missing the point, but then again, you've been doing that since your first comment.
Just because it's fiction doesn't mean you can claim whatever the hell you want and expect someone to take you even remotely seriously. You MUST take into account motivations, precedents and continuity.
@Perion It's relevant because your comment was pretty much if the other guy is bigger you might as well just give up... hey, are you French? Cause thats what they do.
Except the Germans WEREN'T bigger than say, the Americans and the Russains, who curb-stomped the Germans, so your WWII analogy falls flat, the main reason the British Held out as long as they did was because it took so much effort for the Germans to cross the English Channel, and the balance of power was relatively even.
Empire vs Federation does not equal Axis vs Allies, or Germany vs England, or Germany vs France, or even Germany vs Poland, it equals Modern America vs Ancient Egypt.
@Perion Yes they were, the Germans happened to be the most powerful army in the world at the time, and the most advanced. Japan had the biggest Navey as well. Add to that the fact that the rest of the world was lowering it's arms while Germany was building up, and the fact that the people fighting for Germany & Japan were brainwashed into believing that it was their destiney to rule the world and there you have it.
@McMahonHater On top of this, the American and Russian industrial might alone was enough to overwhelm the Nazis, even if it got off to a slow start (same thing happened in World War 1 when america joined the war, but once they got up steam it was pretty well inevitable)
There was time for them to come up with new designs, and their enemies used the same tech base, it was only a matter of designs and tactics that gave the Germans the edge at the start.
@Perion To put it in term you could understand, and Allied tank at the begining of WWII vs a German tank would be like a Federation Starship firing on an Empirial Destroyer... don't believe all the bull shit they teach you in American History the good guys took plenty of shit kickings, even after the USA finally got thier ass's in gear and joined the fight. If Hitler hadn't tried fighting on so many fronts who know what would have happened.
@McMahonHater Uh no, while the Germans had the best tech at the start the gap wasn't anywhere near Federation vs Empire, it was more like Federation vs Dominion which, needless to say, the Federation won.
You still don't understand the sheer gap that exists here. The Germans in WW2 were on the same overall tech base as everyone else, that's why they could catch up, with the Federation vs Empire it's once again, like ancient egypt vs modern usa.
@Perion Well then you need to move someplace else because you are way to big of an ass hole to share the same country as me. In close "The Prophits", who could be the "Organians" or any number off all cosmic level types in the Trek Univese, They made the entire dominio fleet just vanish inside the Worm Hole by DS9, and since not allot is known about them who knows what they are capable off. I highly doubt they would let a force like the Empire into thier "dimention".
@McMahonHater The Prophets power ends with the wormhole and the Imperials never need to use it, the Organians never interfered with the Dominion War so they wouldn't interfere with the Empire either.
@Perion Also, since species like the Organians, The Metrons, and Q are god like their is nothing to say that they couldn't forsee the federation beating the Dominion, and so they knew they wouldn't have to get involved. However a group like the Empire (being so much advanced as you say) might cause them to deside to step in to prevent mass loss of life... the Organians alone could stop the Empire with the thought, and send them back to thier own dimention.
@McMahonHater mere hyperbole and wild speculation, based on the completely unfounded concept that the Organians, Metrons and Q actually care, since they never stopped the Dominion or the Borg from conquering/assimilating thousands of worlds, there isn't the slightest shred of evidence that they would save the federation.
@Perion you keep saying Federation, I am simply talking about lives in general. Since the prediction of "9 billion lost" never happened because the Wormhole "Proffets" steped in (and could have been the Metrons or the Organians for all we know) who is to say other omni races wouldn't. You keep falling back to the Dominion war, but the Dominion was beaten because of an Omni Race stepping in. So it's all about how it is written.
@McMahonHater No the Dominion was beaten because Odo convinced the founder to stop in exchange for the cure, the so called "Omni Race" who's power over the wormhole just bought the Federation some time.
It wasn't 9 billion it was 900 Billion, and that prediction was made AFTER the Prophets stepped in, and they never stepped in again, not because they knew the federation would win, but because A) they didn't care and B) their power is limited to the Wormhole.
@Perion So you are saying that the Warm Hole Proffets wouldn't do anything to help the mortal beings whom they do care about "Bejorans" when if the Dominian had beat the federation in a final conflict battle? The Dominian would have had to come in through the worm hole anyway and they would have stopped them if it meant the end of Bajor. Also if the Proffets hadn't stepped in then the Federation and it's allies wouldn't have had time to make the deal through Odo, so you point is moot.
@McMahonHater your atrocious spelling aside, remember how much convincing it took from Sisko to get the Prophets to do anything in the first place in regards to the wormhole, and on top of that they demanded a heavy price for their "favour" (basically foreshadowing sisko's "death" at the end of the series) so once again, you prove that you don't understand. on top of that, destroying the Prophets isn't hard to do.
Point is, you cannot use the "they knew the federation would win" argument.
@McMahonHater There is Zero evidence that the Metrons or Organians are the Prophets, in fact there is considerable evidence that they are not.
Again the Organians don't take sides, if they interfere, then they would stop ALL Hostilities, and they would certainly not kill anyone, that would run completely counter to their pacifist nature and the entire reason for their interference in the first place.
@Perion Then if the Empire is invading, and the Organians stop thier hotility then they have lost, because their invation would have failed. Not to mention their is nothing to say the Organians wouldn't send them back to their own dimention.
@McMahonHater Also I don't just use the Dominion War as an example, there are hundreds of races the Dominion or Borg have conquered, assimilated or killed. Where were these so called "omni races" then?when trillions of lives were lost? they didn't lift a finger to help, the Federation and Klingons etc are no different.
In short, don't claim victory when you haven't got your facts straight.
@McMahonHater also since the Organians considered the Federation just as bad as the Klingons (who at the time were about as bad as the Dominion) means that they didn't care who would win when they stopped the Federation/Klingon war, so the theory of them being friendly to the federation is bunk.
@McMahonHater You can't use World War 2 analogies for Star Wars vs Star Trek, because the tech gap is that of thousands of years, many, many orders of magnitude, Allied tanks, even at the start of WWII could still destroy German tanks, and the relationship between a Cruiser tank and a Panzer was roughly the same between a Sherman and a Tiger by the end of the war, the only time the Allies had equal, or even superior tanks to the Germans was at the end of the Africa campaign and the Russian T-34
@Perion My Grandfather drove a Tank for Canada during WWII, and the first time he fires a shell on a German tank it bounced off. It was the "Never say die" attitued that allowed the Allies to win WWII, and that is what would allow the Federation to overcome the empire in the long run. It's a matter of Persecerance and numbers. How much could the Empire dedicate to taking another dimention when he has to contend with the Rebels? You only need to get 7/9 on one Destroyer and she'll own it.
@McMahonHater what kind of tank was he firing at? a Tiger? then it makes sense, I was comparing of course shermans to panthers, which were on roughly equal footing, I forget about the even Tigers had weaknesses (rear armour, airstrike vulnerability) and the shermans outnumbered them, were faster and more reliable. Imperial ships have no weaknesses to Trek.
Rebels had technological parity, and the Emperor bet the farm to turn luke to the dark side.
@McMahonHater Once again you can't use World War II as a basis for Federation vs Empire, because there is just no comparison, the Federation I'm sure would be persistent for the first few minutes, but after their entire fleet and all their shipyards/factories are smashed and troopers, tanks and walkers are swarming through all their cities at once in less than an hour they would have no choice but to surrender.
@McMahonHater Also remember 7 of 9 explicitly stated that the Borg have never been able to assimilate or adapt to neutronium, guess what star destroyers are made out of?
@Perion Federation ship surenders, Emirial troop board it, 7 of 9 grabs one and assimilates him, then they assimilate 2, and so on and so on... then they sneak back on the Destroyer and they get to work on assimilating the rest of the troops (and killing those they can't). Bam the federation has an Emperial Destroyer that they can reverse engineir.
@McMahonHater wow, just wow, the sheer level of wank involved here is really quite something, so many problems with this theory I could fill a whole page but here it goes.
1) It assumes the Imperials would allow 7 of 9 to get that close, when in reality she would be demanded to hold her hands in a clearly visable fashion and they would then be in binders. There would be many Stomtroopers around any sudden movement would result in either her death or stunning and waking up with binders on.
@Perion It's not hard to believe considering they let a farm boy and a pirate get the drop on them in the first movie. Imperial Troops in general aren't exactly briliant. Remember Family Guy "Blue Harvest"... "Hold your fire, there aren't any life forms" What? Are we paying by the lazer blast now?". 7/9 would infect them as thay walked in through the air lock... the only wank here is you and you lame bull shit.
@McMahonHater "they let a farm boy and a pirate get the drop on them in the first movie." Keep in mind that Vader knew the Falcon was coming with the death star plans before they were on board, and said that the princess "may yet be of use to us" we later find that they let them escape.
Holding their fire because there aren't any life forms aboard is a perfectly prudent thing to do, you don't want your soldiers to go firing willy nilly, any argument against that requires hindsight.
@McMahonHater Yes she would, you have no sense of realism if you believe any otherwise, they see her make a move, at best she MIGHT get one, but the others will shoot her.
Even if she has a bunch of people nearby, they will be gunned down too since they would be in plain view (They can't simply burst out of nowhere). Even if she were to, by some miracle, take out all the boarding Troopers, there would be no way to get to the ISD since after losing contact they would simply destroy the fed ship.
@McMahonHater Remember the ISD won't dock with the Fed ship, they didn't even Dock with the Tantive IV, they used a boarding shuttle, and no, she isn't going to be able to take that shuttle and use it either, you simply have no sense of scale if you think this is going to work.
Wow, just wow, It really becomes sad when you are clearly so loathing and despising of the franchise that you resort to the most ludicrous, illogical and completely baseless assumptions with zero evidence to support your claims. Where was Amanda Rogers in the Mirror universe? Or all the countless timeliness where neither she, nor anyone else in the franchise helped the federation when it was completely doomed?
Same as where her "Prime" universe version would be, doing nothing.
@Perion Amanda Rogers wasn't even born in the Mirrior Univece, the earth was taken over about 100 years before and most of humanity was enslaved. Your true ignorance of Star Trek lore is beyond words.
@McMahonHater Sisko, O'Brien, Bashir and Jennifer were all born in the Mirror Universe, there is zero evidence that Amanda Rogers wasn't, or that Picard wasn't.
@McMahonHater And now you've completely run out of ideas, unable to do anything other than resort to childish contradictions without even pretending to give evidence.
@Perion There is no Concession, you are wrong. Not to mention a loser who sits at home all day reading fictional tech manuals from 2 sci-fi franchises. Great Sci-Fi franchises (don't get me wrong), but even I don't take it so much to heart. My idea would work for the very reason I said it would the Empires Arogance, hell they got there ass's kicked by tedd bears in Return of the Jedi movie, and you don't think 7/9 & Hugh's rebel borgs couldn't beat them... get a clue.
@McMahonHater And now you're just trolling, flaming and as always making baseless claims, as the Ewoks didn't defeat them at all. besides, Ewoks are superior to the Borg anyhow, course, even chimpanzees have better tactical sense than the Borg.
Your entire idea is based on a fundemental underestimation of your enemy, which is why it is doomed to failure.
@Perion You really missed the entire point. You really have no clue what you are talking about. In the end it was the society with no technology that caused the down fall of the Empire that had massive technology. Watch the interviews Lucas does (should be on the DVDs) thats where he explains it. Your right, the Empire would underestamate the federation, and thats why they would fail.
@McMahonHater Sorry, but in the end it was Vader who caused the downfall of the Empire, Luke drove him to toss the Emperor off the edge. also it was the Rebellion, who had technological parity with the Empire, who made the Ewok Distraction more than just a minor nuisance.
Thus it required two things to work
1. Technological Parity, which no one in Trek has,
2. The Emperor betting the farm on turning someone to the Dark Side, since people are ignorant of the force in Trek, won't happen either.
@Perion Well, the reason the Borg didn't attack Jean Luc was because he was assimilated before, and the Borg thought he was still under their control. In real life, the Borg would treat anything that was holding a stick as a threat. So. Yeah.
Storm Trooper: This'll work, trust me.
(walks past borg) See! Told y- (cut off from borg sticking Nanoprobes in neck.
@indianajoneszilla Actually they did that whole shtick in Q-Who, long before Picard was assimilated, They did it in Voyager all the time too, the Borg knew full well that Picard wasn't in the collective anymore same with 7 of 9, so no.
The only time they ever actively attack someone without provocation is if you try to enter the central plexus, which honestly wouldn't even be necessary for blowing up their ship (hell even boarding it wouldn't be remotely necessary.)
@McMahonHater And before you try a rubber-vs-glue retort, I will remind you that Unlike the Borg, Chimpanzees understand the concept of sentries, whereas the Borg will simply let someone waltz in and wreck up the place before they do something about them.
Also Kinetic weapons > Borg, be they Railguns or pointed sticks or anything in between.
@Perion I would agree if it were a regular Borg cube, but Hugh and his pals have a concept of snetries, and would not simply let somebody on their ship without kicking their ass. They also have the ability to creat other borgs since they have all there borg parts. It is you who underestimates the Federation, not me who underestimated the Empire. They would think they can't lose, and t hat beliefe is why they would.
@McMahonHater Sorry, but a poorly thought out plan won't magically work simply because the enemy is arrogant,. They can't lose because you don't take into account the sheer size of a Star Destroyer and the fact that Nanoprobes aren't instantaneous, it takes several minutes for someone who is infected to be controlled by the Nanoprobes, such as Mr. Hawk. meanwhile it would all be over in seconds, with the Troopers standing over the dead or stunned bodies of their assailants.
@McMahonHater Someone being Arrogant doesn't automatically make them helpless and defenseless as your scenario relies upon, we never saw Hugh's forces again, with no sign that they know how to contact them. Keep in mind that there wouldn't be enough time to call them in anyhow in the event of an Invasion. It's not like their pretense would make even the slightest of differences.
You vastly overestimate the power and speed of Assimilation, and underestimate the Empire, thus are doomed to fail.
@McMahonHater Remember they are Arrogant for a reason, especially in this case, where they have every right to feel invincible, because for all intents and purposes THEY ARE. However Arrogance does not equal Overconfidence, it simply means they are powerful as all get out and they know it.
There's a word for that, it's called an Insufferable Genius, sure the person may be arrogant and condescending, but they're still right. Their attitude has nothing to do with whether they are right or wrong.
@Perion When people think they can't lose, thats when they tend to leave themselves open somehwere. Thats why the empire lost to the rebels in the first place., and thats why they would lose to the Federation... either that or the Enterprise NCC-1701 Z comming through a worm hole from the 30th century and wiping out the Imperial Invation... yep, that one works for me.
@McMahonHater Sorry but bringing in a Hypothetical ship from the future (I'm not even going to bother with pointing out the problems with time travel and why that wouldn't work anyhow.) Is at best admitting that the Federation would lose, concession accepted.
When people think they can't lose, it can also be due to them having planned things very meticulously, and are intimately familiar with their abilities and those of their enemies.
Arrogance and Recklessness do not always go hand in hand.
@McMahonHater Again the Rebels won because they had technological Parity with the Empire and the Emperor put it all on the line to turn Luke to the dark side. We have seen him do this before, betting the farm on Anakin and it paying off, however, not only does the Federation lack technological parity, but there is nothing there for the Empire to make such a gambit over.
2) It assumes that somehow this assimilation is instantaneous, while we know for a fact it isn't, Assimilation requires both Nanoprobes and SURGERY, for the more complex implants, this process takes quite some time. No evidence exists for those who have been infected with Nanoprobes to be capable of assimilating others, and every piece of evidence we have of those who haven't undergone stage 2 assimilation suggests they cannot.
@Perion All she needs is contole of a small group of Troopers, then she controles them throught the Nonoprobes to controle them, and use them to help take over the Star Destroyer. It's not like she would be alone when the Storm Trooper board the ship, she would have some Star Fleet and other alied alien races with her to help.
@McMahonHater Again, she would be dead or unconcious with, at best, one troop with a momentary nanoprobe infection, again Nanoprobe infection is NOT instantanious, we see Federation soldiers with more than enough free will for at least a minute or so, and 7 would be dead or stunned in a split second.
Again you would need ALLOT more than a "small group" to take over even a fraction of the ISD. and They board via shuttle, like a TIE bomber type (that's how it was done in ANH)
3) It assumes that the Empire has no experience fighting a self propagating viral infection that possesses it's hosts, while in reality they have extensive experience and even created once created one as a weapon. So they would have effective means of fighting them as well as a cure readily available (hint, it's called Bacta, and no the Borg nanoprobes would NOT be able to assimilate it)
@Perion And you are assuming that the Empire would have met the Borg before. Remember your Canadian history Perion. When the White European first came to North America the Natives got sick because they had not experience with the bacteria they brought with them. If they haven't encounter the borg Nonoprobes their is now sure way to know that they wouldn't work on "Bacta" especialy after the encounter with Species 8472.
@McMahonHater 8472 is 8472, not Bacta, what applies to one does not apply to the other as Borg lack the capacity for lateral, creative thought, as the Undine war proved, there would be zero time to develop something like that to be effective vs Bacta anyhow.
Also your analogy falls flat because the White Europeans in this case are the Empire while the Borg are the natives, and again Borg Nanoprobes are nothing new to them, they have plenty of experience with such things, and have created worse.
4) A Star Destroyer carries thousands of troops, and have weapons that drones could never adapt to (non-frequency based energy weapons, slughtrowers, knives that could slice an arm off like butter, etc), not to mention the neutronium blast doors, poison gas injectors, turret guns and the ever present option of depressurizing sections of the ship and blowing the drones out into space. So even if you did get drones on board they would never be able to take over the ship.
@Perion And yet a farm boy and a pirate were able to slip passed all that and sneak onto the Death Star no less. Face it, 7/9 is smarter then Solo and Skywalker, so she and other's in star fleet could come up with a batle plan to get them in.
@McMahonHater Remember Vader, Tarkin and Leia all said that the Empire let them go, the only reason Han and Luke etc were able to get on or off the Death Star alive was because Vader wanted them to, it's in the film.
I don't see any evidence that 7/9 is more intelligent than either of them, she has more knowledge because of the database in her head, but so does C-3PO. Either way nothing she knows could possibly help her against the Empire.
5) Even if they somehow had an intact Star Destroyer with no crew somehow and the security systems on board were non functional (obviously not by using your scenario which could never happen) It would take them centuries to millennia to reverse engineer it. An Invasion of the Federation would last minutes to an hour before the Federation collapsed, so they clearly would not have anywhere near enough time to do so.
@Perion First of all you Arrogant shit wad, my scenerio is probably the best way for the federation to go, and it would work, because the Empire is full of arogan idiots (not unlike yourself) who would walk into federation space thinking it would be a cake walk. That feeling of Invulnerability alone would be the exact reason why my idea would work. Also, once they have controle of the Destroyer the picards buddy Hugh could come in and finnish the Assimilation, giving them the know how they need
@McMahonHater Your scenario is based on you underestimating the Empire, thinking them no more than, as you put it "arogan idiots" Meanwhile I have analyzed every piece of canon, and even a great deal of non-canon Trek tech, Federation, Dominion, Borg etc, and have found that their Feeling of invulnerability is well deserved.
Your scenario also relies on 7 of 9 keeping her implants, where as we know from Future Janeway that odds are she won't be by the time the Empire attacks.
@McMahonHater 5(CONT) ) Even if you dropped a B2 Bomber into Civil War America, with all the scientists who invented the thing, it would still take decades to a century to build another one, they simply do not have the resource infrastructure or required technologies to make it possible. So at best America would get a B2 bomber 10-20 years before it was supposed to.
Now Imagine if you dropped that same B2 Bomber and science team into Ancient Egypt and had the modern US military Invading them.
@McMahonHater Again, zero evidence she would intervene, now that she's a Q. Other than your saying so. Meanwhile again we have a great deal of evidence that she wouldn't, not least of which being Q law, so unless she wants to spend the rest of eternity in a comet for even trying (and failing) then she isn't gonna do squat.
@McMahonHater Oh and for the Purposes of Star Wars vs Star Trek it's often said "Same Universe, Separate Galaxies" so the Empire is from the same Dimension as the Federation, just that they are separated by time and distance (A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.)
None of this can be said about the Feds vs the Empire
The Empire has superior designs, tactics, technology thousands of years ahead of the federation and work on completely alien principles that the federation has NEVER been able to understand, on top of this the Empire is so fast, and so large, that they could take a drop from the ocean that is their starfleet and conquer or destroy the entire federation in a matter of minutes to hours tops.
Um, Jedi have Precognition as well, Anakin found out that it could be as little ahead as when racing a podracer, or seeing the death of his wife while giving birth.
Also, the word "forseen" seems to be common with Vader and the Emperor...
By a stroke of luck that Chewy didn't land flat on his ass when swinging on the vine.
There is a bit unhaziness, but Jedi seem to be able to use foresight when they need it most (piloting a ship, knowing when someone is around the bend, fighting a single person or group of enemies, etc.). Some Jedi/Sith have better power of Foresight than others, as Anakin showed more of it than the Emperor did.
"...Always in motion, the future is..." Even though the Emperor was able to predict certain events, he wasn't able to see everything that did or could happen. For example, the Emperor saw the Rebels on Endor, resulting in him sending his Legion of best troops on the surface, but maybe he didn't see(let alone consider) that they would meet up and befriend the Ewoks. A slight miscalculation on his part...
@Perion Of course it's always possible Q would cause the Empire to come into the Star Trek dimention, because he thought it would be entertaining as well. He's a real prick at times LOL.
@McMahonHater In "Star Wars vs Star Trek: Conquest" Q is implied as being the direct cause of the confrontation, and we find out that he has been similarly tormenting Picard's opposite number on the Empire side.
@draven5149 sorry, but that's not the case at all. Trek shields and weapons are extremely low yield compared to Star Wars, Trek torpedoes are more powerful than phasers yet are only in the double digit megatons at most, and even the Flagship has only 1 launcher it can use on any given target.
Star Wars Turbolasers (don't let the "laser" part fool you, they aren't really l.a.s.e.r. at all) Are in the triple digit Gigatons at least and even ships not designed for heavy combat have 12 of these.
Wow, i've been waiting three years for part 3. I know animation takes a few weeks for things like Red vs Blue. It can't take three years to make this.
Just btw what does military experiance have to do with this? Aside from the fact that "lasers" travel slower then modern day bullets and are visable in space somehow Makes both fiction.thank you good day.
@Perion Let's face it Perion. If the empereor was on that supersar Destroyer and he was leading the attack. He would fail. He's completely insane. The Federation officers are trained to be cool-headed and make good decisions. They could simply out-wit Darth Sidious. And why haven't you finished this vid? We are all eager to see how it plays out. Despite my opinions
@Perion Let's face it Perion. If Emperor Sidious was leading this attack on the Federation, he would ultimately fail because he is completely insane! His lust for power so often blinded him. Starfleet officers are trained to be cool-headed and think before they act. There is no way the Empire could win. Plus, once the Federation came under attack, the other races would be too. They would have to band together for a much stronger force. Much more powerful than the Imperial fleet
A single one of their vessels, considered old and obsolete by the time of the original trilogy, and never designed for heavy ship to ship combat in it's prime is already, compared to a Galaxy Class it's. only 110m longer, but more than 3 times faster than impulse and tens of thousands of times faster than warp.and hundreds of thousands of times the firepower and millions of times the shielding.
This thing's main role? it's a Dropship, carrying 16,000 highly trained and heavily armed soldiers that make Jem'Hadar look like a bunch of tribbles, supported by hundreds of combat vehicles to which the federation and it's allies have not even a remote analogue to.
A mere 2,000 Romulans were expected to hold Vulcan for an extended period of time, even though the rest of the Federation would undoubtedly send reinforcements to try to take them back, they felt 2,000 troops would be enough...
WE WANT PART 3! It has been years... you have left us all hanging. I miss the 240p space battles. I believe, and I think many will agree with me, your videos are the definitive battles. Everything else on youtube is complete crap. HOW WILL IT END?? please come back captainshuttle.
PresentingHilarious 1 month ago 3
From what I hear, he and rifleman80 decided not to make a new one because of all the n00bs and their flamewar, and possibly real attacks on the authors.
Jerkwad152 4 months ago
Agreed, enjoy it for what it is. Very nicely put together series, can't wait for 3.
EdgarNobleWolf 5 months ago
From an avid fan of both, to all you trekkers and Jedi freaks, stop nit picking and just enjoy this person's productions and appreciate their intent. I, for one, find them quite entertaining.
DBro65 5 months ago
If your not making a new one because you think it's starting a flame war, well you must be a nazi against free speech. I live in a country called the United States of America. The first amendment is the right to free speech. So go suck it.
thefinalfrontier1701 5 months ago
@thefinalfrontier1701 your comment is why he isnt making another one. shut up.
PresentingHilarious 1 month ago
@PresentingHilarious ...
I fail to understand your logic.
Idazmi7 1 week ago
Never gonna happen. Whenever there is Star Trek versus Star Wars , there will always be FlameWar.
STSWB5SG1FAN 5 months ago
It's an awesome seris of animations and I have just one question.
When is the 3rd part going to be posted?
PresidentGLc 6 months ago
goos shir right here.
buffyslayer30 6 months ago
what did you use to make the animations I am interested on how well you did them
Stargate404 7 months ago
even if they could beat the Federation back, the Romulans and possibly the Klingons would use their cloaking devices to wage a guerilla war against the empire. BTW. I'm a fan of both but SW has serious holes in their tech like letting ships through their shields. The Klingons would just board the Super Star Destroyer and either sabotage it or capture it. Unless Vader or the Emporer were onboard the Klingons wouldn't have much trouble with the red shirts er I mean storm troopers.
TheUnknowable2 7 months ago
@TheUnknowable2 uh, ships only go through shields if they want them to, IE if they are launching fighters or whatnot out of the hangar, one could theoretically fly in at the same time. Otherwise attempting to do so would result in them splattering against the shielding. Klingons would be slaughtered by Stormtroopers, the myth that Stormtroopers are poor fighters and Klingons are somehow a force to be reckoned with is just that, a myth.
Never bring a Bat'leth to a blaster fight.
Perion 7 months ago
@Perion Ignoring Non-canon: Blaster weapons cannot penetrate "magnetic seals" or "ray shields" at all. Starfleet Shields are both. Not to mention, the old Enterprise can destroy cities with just it's phasers, (torpedoes are more powerful) and can level an M-class planet's surface, as per the Original Series episodes "Mirror, Mirror", and "A Taste of Armageddon". The old Enterprise is 86 years old in Trek time, making it the OUTDATED MODEL. *Trek* wins.
Idazmi7 4 months ago
@TheUnknowable2 The Empire are familiar with far more sophisticated Cloaking Devices (ones that create absolutely no emissions whatsoever) and have a nifty way of detecting even them.
Perion 7 months ago
Really. The third one needs to come. I want to see who will kick Star Wars' make-no-sense science in the ass
1993Warbirds 7 months ago
@1993Warbirds Star Trek's science makes even less sense, Star Wars doesn't even try to explain how their tech works, which quite honestly is for the best.
Perion 7 months ago
Are you making part 3?????????
thefinalfrontier1701 8 months ago
part 3????
tinytottles 8 months ago
it'd only take several quantum torpedoes to obliterate the Executor...
silaku 9 months ago
@silaku if by several you mean several billion
Quantum Torpedo effective yield = 48 megatons
Executor shield capacity = 80,000,000,000 megatons per second for 30 minutes straight, and that's WITHOUT drawing in extra power from other systems.
Perion 9 months ago
This is very interesting. I find it funny that people compare two completely different universes, that aren't really comparable. People always forget that there is more than just starfleet in the galaxy for some reason. Also, according to lucas, the empire ended with the last movie in the original trilogy anyway. According to sw canon, if it cannot be supported in the movies, it didn't happen. So much for all those novels and "tech" books, eh?
uni4rm 9 months ago
@uni4rm actually according to sw canon if it is outright contradicted by the movies, it didn't happen. It doesn't need movie support, it just needs the movies to not contradict it. plain and simple
They can be compared, their capabilities can be defined, measured and thus compared. The Two are different galaxies yes, but "completely different universes" ? not necessarily.
Perion 9 months ago
hey, when is pt. 3 gonna be up? it's been YEARS
Nitroglycerine1000 10 months ago 9
When are you going to make part 3
thefinalfrontier1701 11 months ago
I stopped caring about this argument years ago
bigcool89 11 months ago
WHERE THE HELL IS PART 3 I'VE BEEN WAITING 3 YEARS
jackflak1979 1 year ago
light guns are generally on the Megaton scale, while Medium guns are on the gigaton scale, and heavy guns are on the Teraton scale.
overall firepower of each ship under normal combat situations is roughly
Acclamator: 2.4 teratons per second
Venator: 275 teratons per second
Imperial: 800 teratons per second
Remember the Acclamator is primarily a Dropship, not a warship, so the Venator being over 100x more powerful makes sense.
Starkiller22475 1 year ago
Comment removed
Starkiller22475 1 year ago
How long does "Coming Soon" actually mean?
JediMasterJD996 1 year ago
the defiant can beat the entire star wars galaxy, even the death star (its only slightly larger than the millenium falcon so it could fire its guided quantum torpedoes at the core). If that doesnt work, Voyager can just launch a couple tricobalt devices, and if THAT doesnt work, we can pray to the Prophets to unleash the Borg.
17MrBob01 1 year ago
@17MrBob01 not really for the fire power coming from one shot of a turbo laser battery can blast through the sheilds through the hull dont beleive me look up the power out puts of each
Starkiller22475 1 year ago
Are you going to make part 3? At least tell us.
thefinalfrontier1701 1 year ago
you do realize if the mikly way galaxy was going to be lost starfleet would not be fighting alone the domion romulians klingons and just about every major power would be fiightig along side but looks good
worldofwarcraftman2 1 year ago
@worldofwarcraftman2 That would be a more impressive fight, but it wouldn't affect the outcome any, Empire is just too strong.
Perion 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Perion Well, they did take out one of the three ships at the outpost. If they can get the Romulans to help, they could take out the other two ships. The destroyer wouldn't have time to get it's defenses up if a Warbird decloaked.
thefinalfrontier1701 1 year ago
When is part 3 coming?
Jcorp67 1 year ago
now this, will be the coolest star trek vs star wars ever in history so far :D
CommanderCarsten 1 year ago
I win
4dojo 1 year ago
Q would never allow this shit to go down. Vader: You have no idea about the power of the dark side of the force. Q: Your idiot I am the force. Q turns Darth Vader into a can of soup, and crushes the eperor with a dirty looks. Trek wins.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
@McMahonHater Q wouldn't care, he never stopped the Dominion, or the Borg or the Klingons or interfered with any galactic politics (it's beneath the Q to concern themselves with such things) not even in any of those alternate universes where the Federation lost.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion Q owes both Picard and Janeway favors, all they'd have to do is give him a shout and that would be it for Darth and his daddy.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
@McMahonHater No he doesn't, he doesn't owe either one of them anything, sure they did favours for him but he already paid them back for them in the show.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion So Q doesn't oh Picard for saving his life when he was stripped of his powers? And Q doesn't owe Janeway for playing Godmother to Q JR ? What exactly did he do to pay them back? And what makes you so sure Q won't get involved just because he'd like to dick with the Emperor and his Sith Lord.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
@McMahonHater Not as far as Q is concerned, he payed his debt to them already, helping to save humanity in "All good things".
Dicking around is one thing, If he's done similar things to the Dominion, Klingons and Romulans that he's done to the Federation, then I have no doubt he would do similar things to the Empire.
He will NOT however rescue the Federation from being conquered by the Empire, any more than he would save them from being assimilated by the Borg, or annihilated by the Dominion.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion He would if he thought it would be entertaining. However I just remembered something today when I was going to a job interview, that went well for the record, In an episode of the original Star Trek called Erand of Mercy they intoduce a species called Organian's who were able to stop a conflict between the Fed's and the Klingons just by thinking about it. And not just on there world but across the entire quarant. Both sides were rendered powerless.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
@McMahonHater Granted the Organians didn't join the UFP in that episode, but I don't think they would allow Palpatine's Galactic Empire to kill millions (or even billions) when they could stop it with a mere thought.
Heaven help the Empire if Talosian's take an interest in their invation.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
@McMahonHater Neither the Organians or the Talosians did anything to stop the Dominion from slaughtering billions, so neither one of them would be likely to do anything come the Empire invading.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion In what episode of DS9 did the Dominion "slaughter billion" I think you are getting your information from the wrong pace. The Dominion bairly even got hold of DS9 before they were beaten. The Organians and Tolosians were probably aware that the Federation and it's allies could handle them in the long run, but as you point out the Empire is at an entirely different level.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
@McMahonHater Julian Bashir's genetically altered brain projected 900 billion deaths as a result of the Dominion War.
Sorry, but that line of thinking is extremely flawed, that they didn't interfere only because they "knew" the federation would win or some such bs.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion It was projected, but it's not what happened. They were stopped long before they were even that far into the quadrent. Most of the deaths ended up on Cardasia Prime, and the major battle that finally won the war. There is no way they lost 900 billion people in the end. Projection don't mean shit.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
@McMahonHater The Projection means everything, Bashir never considered the involvement of the Organians or Talosians or any of the others to be a possibility, writing them off as non-combatants etc, It shows that they cannot be counted on. If 900 billion lives were destroyed those races would do nothing about it, it's none of their concern.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion I can claim that if I want, there is no proof to say other wise. Considering Jedi can see glimpses of the future why can the Organians. As Spock said "They are as far above use as we are an amoeba". In the end, despite all their abilities a Jedi is still just a mortal being, Organains are more powerful then them as well.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
@McMahonHater Actually there is plenty of proof to say otherwise,
Them not interfering because of knowing the Federation would win is retarded, and shows that you weren't paying anywhere near enough attention to the episode. Need I remind you that in "Errand of Mercy" the Organians didn't care who would win, as far as t hey were concerned the Federation was just as bad as the Klingons.
The only interference they have ever shown is stopping one war that was being started on their doorstep.
Perion 1 year ago
Neither they nor any other race have interfered in any other War the Federation have gone into, not even in all the alternate universes and timelines where the Borg rampage across the galaxy, or where the Klingons and/or Cardassians do the same.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion Really? At what point in the episode do the Organians state the limits to their abilities. At what point is it said they don't have the power of Prcognition? Don't you think an Empirial invation would eventually come to their door step?
Besides, the big claim is that nobody in the Trek Univerce could stop the Empire, and I have given at least 2 examples of races that could, and with out breaking a sweat. So you are officialy proven wrong.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
@McMahonHater Sorry, but races who don't care enough to stop the empire don't count, which is why I didn't include them.
I can list 5 races in Trek that could, but none of them would.
I never said the Organians can't tell the future. I'm saying It doesn't matter, none of the omni races did anything about the Borg or the whatnot that came in and conquered the Alpha Quadrant in all those alternate universes, there's no reason to assume they would in the prime universe either.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion Yes they do, because you arguement wasn't "Who would stop them" but that nobody could stop them. Besides it's sceince fiction, and we could write it anyway we want it to go. So if in my verion the Organians would step in to serve the greater good when they are really needed most, then thats how it goes. However you would right it, is up to you.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
@McMahonHater
Sorry, but they don't, because they have no bearing on the outcome, you are arguing semantics while completely missing the point, but then again, you've been doing that since your first comment.
Just because it's fiction doesn't mean you can claim whatever the hell you want and expect someone to take you even remotely seriously. You MUST take into account motivations, precedents and continuity.
This isn't some shitty fanfic.
But again you completely miss the point.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion Thank God everybody doesn't think the same way you do, or we would all be speaking German now.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@McMahonHater What are you babbling about?
Perion 1 year ago
@McMahonHater THANK YOU! It's about time someone shuts up perion.
thefinalfrontier1701 1 year ago
@thefinalfrontier1701 Actually, I just took a break, and he still hasn`t answered how his line about World War II has any relevance.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion It's relevant because your comment was pretty much if the other guy is bigger you might as well just give up... hey, are you French? Cause thats what they do.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
Except the Germans WEREN'T bigger than say, the Americans and the Russains, who curb-stomped the Germans, so your WWII analogy falls flat, the main reason the British Held out as long as they did was because it took so much effort for the Germans to cross the English Channel, and the balance of power was relatively even.
Empire vs Federation does not equal Axis vs Allies, or Germany vs England, or Germany vs France, or even Germany vs Poland, it equals Modern America vs Ancient Egypt.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion Yes they were, the Germans happened to be the most powerful army in the world at the time, and the most advanced. Japan had the biggest Navey as well. Add to that the fact that the rest of the world was lowering it's arms while Germany was building up, and the fact that the people fighting for Germany & Japan were brainwashed into believing that it was their destiney to rule the world and there you have it.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
@McMahonHater On top of this, the American and Russian industrial might alone was enough to overwhelm the Nazis, even if it got off to a slow start (same thing happened in World War 1 when america joined the war, but once they got up steam it was pretty well inevitable)
There was time for them to come up with new designs, and their enemies used the same tech base, it was only a matter of designs and tactics that gave the Germans the edge at the start.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion To put it in term you could understand, and Allied tank at the begining of WWII vs a German tank would be like a Federation Starship firing on an Empirial Destroyer... don't believe all the bull shit they teach you in American History the good guys took plenty of shit kickings, even after the USA finally got thier ass's in gear and joined the fight. If Hitler hadn't tried fighting on so many fronts who know what would have happened.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
@McMahonHater Uh no, while the Germans had the best tech at the start the gap wasn't anywhere near Federation vs Empire, it was more like Federation vs Dominion which, needless to say, the Federation won.
You still don't understand the sheer gap that exists here. The Germans in WW2 were on the same overall tech base as everyone else, that's why they could catch up, with the Federation vs Empire it's once again, like ancient egypt vs modern usa.
Oh and I'm not American, I'm Canadian.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion Well then you need to move someplace else because you are way to big of an ass hole to share the same country as me. In close "The Prophits", who could be the "Organians" or any number off all cosmic level types in the Trek Univese, They made the entire dominio fleet just vanish inside the Worm Hole by DS9, and since not allot is known about them who knows what they are capable off. I highly doubt they would let a force like the Empire into thier "dimention".
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater The Prophets power ends with the wormhole and the Imperials never need to use it, the Organians never interfered with the Dominion War so they wouldn't interfere with the Empire either.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion Also, since species like the Organians, The Metrons, and Q are god like their is nothing to say that they couldn't forsee the federation beating the Dominion, and so they knew they wouldn't have to get involved. However a group like the Empire (being so much advanced as you say) might cause them to deside to step in to prevent mass loss of life... the Organians alone could stop the Empire with the thought, and send them back to thier own dimention.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater I don't think I could have fucked up my grammer much more on that last comment... but you get my point.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater mere hyperbole and wild speculation, based on the completely unfounded concept that the Organians, Metrons and Q actually care, since they never stopped the Dominion or the Borg from conquering/assimilating thousands of worlds, there isn't the slightest shred of evidence that they would save the federation.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion you keep saying Federation, I am simply talking about lives in general. Since the prediction of "9 billion lost" never happened because the Wormhole "Proffets" steped in (and could have been the Metrons or the Organians for all we know) who is to say other omni races wouldn't. You keep falling back to the Dominion war, but the Dominion was beaten because of an Omni Race stepping in. So it's all about how it is written.
By the way... you just lost.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater No the Dominion was beaten because Odo convinced the founder to stop in exchange for the cure, the so called "Omni Race" who's power over the wormhole just bought the Federation some time.
It wasn't 9 billion it was 900 Billion, and that prediction was made AFTER the Prophets stepped in, and they never stepped in again, not because they knew the federation would win, but because A) they didn't care and B) their power is limited to the Wormhole.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion So you are saying that the Warm Hole Proffets wouldn't do anything to help the mortal beings whom they do care about "Bejorans" when if the Dominian had beat the federation in a final conflict battle? The Dominian would have had to come in through the worm hole anyway and they would have stopped them if it meant the end of Bajor. Also if the Proffets hadn't stepped in then the Federation and it's allies wouldn't have had time to make the deal through Odo, so you point is moot.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater your atrocious spelling aside, remember how much convincing it took from Sisko to get the Prophets to do anything in the first place in regards to the wormhole, and on top of that they demanded a heavy price for their "favour" (basically foreshadowing sisko's "death" at the end of the series) so once again, you prove that you don't understand. on top of that, destroying the Prophets isn't hard to do.
Point is, you cannot use the "they knew the federation would win" argument.
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater There is Zero evidence that the Metrons or Organians are the Prophets, in fact there is considerable evidence that they are not.
Again the Organians don't take sides, if they interfere, then they would stop ALL Hostilities, and they would certainly not kill anyone, that would run completely counter to their pacifist nature and the entire reason for their interference in the first place.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion Then if the Empire is invading, and the Organians stop thier hotility then they have lost, because their invation would have failed. Not to mention their is nothing to say the Organians wouldn't send them back to their own dimention.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Because the Organians didn't stop the Trillions of lives from being lost to the Dominion or the Borg, you STILL don't get it.
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Also I don't just use the Dominion War as an example, there are hundreds of races the Dominion or Borg have conquered, assimilated or killed. Where were these so called "omni races" then?when trillions of lives were lost? they didn't lift a finger to help, the Federation and Klingons etc are no different.
In short, don't claim victory when you haven't got your facts straight.
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater also since the Organians considered the Federation just as bad as the Klingons (who at the time were about as bad as the Dominion) means that they didn't care who would win when they stopped the Federation/Klingon war, so the theory of them being friendly to the federation is bunk.
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater You can't use World War 2 analogies for Star Wars vs Star Trek, because the tech gap is that of thousands of years, many, many orders of magnitude, Allied tanks, even at the start of WWII could still destroy German tanks, and the relationship between a Cruiser tank and a Panzer was roughly the same between a Sherman and a Tiger by the end of the war, the only time the Allies had equal, or even superior tanks to the Germans was at the end of the Africa campaign and the Russian T-34
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion My Grandfather drove a Tank for Canada during WWII, and the first time he fires a shell on a German tank it bounced off. It was the "Never say die" attitued that allowed the Allies to win WWII, and that is what would allow the Federation to overcome the empire in the long run. It's a matter of Persecerance and numbers. How much could the Empire dedicate to taking another dimention when he has to contend with the Rebels? You only need to get 7/9 on one Destroyer and she'll own it.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater what kind of tank was he firing at? a Tiger? then it makes sense, I was comparing of course shermans to panthers, which were on roughly equal footing, I forget about the even Tigers had weaknesses (rear armour, airstrike vulnerability) and the shermans outnumbered them, were faster and more reliable. Imperial ships have no weaknesses to Trek.
Rebels had technological parity, and the Emperor bet the farm to turn luke to the dark side.
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Once again you can't use World War II as a basis for Federation vs Empire, because there is just no comparison, the Federation I'm sure would be persistent for the first few minutes, but after their entire fleet and all their shipyards/factories are smashed and troopers, tanks and walkers are swarming through all their cities at once in less than an hour they would have no choice but to surrender.
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Also remember 7 of 9 explicitly stated that the Borg have never been able to assimilate or adapt to neutronium, guess what star destroyers are made out of?
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion Who said anything about assimilating a Star Destroyer. If you assimilait the people who run it.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater which would require being able to get on board, which isn't going to happen.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion Federation ship surenders, Emirial troop board it, 7 of 9 grabs one and assimilates him, then they assimilate 2, and so on and so on... then they sneak back on the Destroyer and they get to work on assimilating the rest of the troops (and killing those they can't). Bam the federation has an Emperial Destroyer that they can reverse engineir.
You lose AGAIN!!!
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater wow, just wow, the sheer level of wank involved here is really quite something, so many problems with this theory I could fill a whole page but here it goes.
1) It assumes the Imperials would allow 7 of 9 to get that close, when in reality she would be demanded to hold her hands in a clearly visable fashion and they would then be in binders. There would be many Stomtroopers around any sudden movement would result in either her death or stunning and waking up with binders on.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion It's not hard to believe considering they let a farm boy and a pirate get the drop on them in the first movie. Imperial Troops in general aren't exactly briliant. Remember Family Guy "Blue Harvest"... "Hold your fire, there aren't any life forms" What? Are we paying by the lazer blast now?". 7/9 would infect them as thay walked in through the air lock... the only wank here is you and you lame bull shit.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater "they let a farm boy and a pirate get the drop on them in the first movie." Keep in mind that Vader knew the Falcon was coming with the death star plans before they were on board, and said that the princess "may yet be of use to us" we later find that they let them escape.
Holding their fire because there aren't any life forms aboard is a perfectly prudent thing to do, you don't want your soldiers to go firing willy nilly, any argument against that requires hindsight.
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater 7/9 would be either Dead or stunned if she even made the attempt I'm afraid.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion No she wouldn't.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Yes she would, you have no sense of realism if you believe any otherwise, they see her make a move, at best she MIGHT get one, but the others will shoot her.
Even if she has a bunch of people nearby, they will be gunned down too since they would be in plain view (They can't simply burst out of nowhere). Even if she were to, by some miracle, take out all the boarding Troopers, there would be no way to get to the ISD since after losing contact they would simply destroy the fed ship.
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Remember the ISD won't dock with the Fed ship, they didn't even Dock with the Tantive IV, they used a boarding shuttle, and no, she isn't going to be able to take that shuttle and use it either, you simply have no sense of scale if you think this is going to work.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion Yes it will, yes she will, and it doesn't matter.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater
Wow, just wow, It really becomes sad when you are clearly so loathing and despising of the franchise that you resort to the most ludicrous, illogical and completely baseless assumptions with zero evidence to support your claims. Where was Amanda Rogers in the Mirror universe? Or all the countless timeliness where neither she, nor anyone else in the franchise helped the federation when it was completely doomed?
Same as where her "Prime" universe version would be, doing nothing.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion Amanda Rogers wasn't even born in the Mirrior Univece, the earth was taken over about 100 years before and most of humanity was enslaved. Your true ignorance of Star Trek lore is beyond words.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Sisko, O'Brien, Bashir and Jennifer were all born in the Mirror Universe, there is zero evidence that Amanda Rogers wasn't, or that Picard wasn't.
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater It also doesn't explain the countless other universes which I also mentioned.
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Oh it does matter, because all that she did would be undone as concequence.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion No it's doesn't.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater And now you've completely run out of ideas, unable to do anything other than resort to childish contradictions without even pretending to give evidence.
Concession Accepted.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion There is no Concession, you are wrong. Not to mention a loser who sits at home all day reading fictional tech manuals from 2 sci-fi franchises. Great Sci-Fi franchises (don't get me wrong), but even I don't take it so much to heart. My idea would work for the very reason I said it would the Empires Arogance, hell they got there ass's kicked by tedd bears in Return of the Jedi movie, and you don't think 7/9 & Hugh's rebel borgs couldn't beat them... get a clue.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater And now you're just trolling, flaming and as always making baseless claims, as the Ewoks didn't defeat them at all. besides, Ewoks are superior to the Borg anyhow, course, even chimpanzees have better tactical sense than the Borg.
Your entire idea is based on a fundemental underestimation of your enemy, which is why it is doomed to failure.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion You really missed the entire point. You really have no clue what you are talking about. In the end it was the society with no technology that caused the down fall of the Empire that had massive technology. Watch the interviews Lucas does (should be on the DVDs) thats where he explains it. Your right, the Empire would underestamate the federation, and thats why they would fail.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Sorry, but in the end it was Vader who caused the downfall of the Empire, Luke drove him to toss the Emperor off the edge. also it was the Rebellion, who had technological parity with the Empire, who made the Ewok Distraction more than just a minor nuisance.
Thus it required two things to work
1. Technological Parity, which no one in Trek has,
2. The Emperor betting the farm on turning someone to the Dark Side, since people are ignorant of the force in Trek, won't happen either.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion Well, the reason the Borg didn't attack Jean Luc was because he was assimilated before, and the Borg thought he was still under their control. In real life, the Borg would treat anything that was holding a stick as a threat. So. Yeah.
Storm Trooper: This'll work, trust me.
(walks past borg) See! Told y- (cut off from borg sticking Nanoprobes in neck.
indianajoneszilla 10 months ago
@indianajoneszilla Actually they did that whole shtick in Q-Who, long before Picard was assimilated, They did it in Voyager all the time too, the Borg knew full well that Picard wasn't in the collective anymore same with 7 of 9, so no.
The only time they ever actively attack someone without provocation is if you try to enter the central plexus, which honestly wouldn't even be necessary for blowing up their ship (hell even boarding it wouldn't be remotely necessary.)
Perion 10 months ago
@McMahonHater And before you try a rubber-vs-glue retort, I will remind you that Unlike the Borg, Chimpanzees understand the concept of sentries, whereas the Borg will simply let someone waltz in and wreck up the place before they do something about them.
Also Kinetic weapons > Borg, be they Railguns or pointed sticks or anything in between.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion I would agree if it were a regular Borg cube, but Hugh and his pals have a concept of snetries, and would not simply let somebody on their ship without kicking their ass. They also have the ability to creat other borgs since they have all there borg parts. It is you who underestimates the Federation, not me who underestimated the Empire. They would think they can't lose, and t hat beliefe is why they would.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Sorry, but a poorly thought out plan won't magically work simply because the enemy is arrogant,. They can't lose because you don't take into account the sheer size of a Star Destroyer and the fact that Nanoprobes aren't instantaneous, it takes several minutes for someone who is infected to be controlled by the Nanoprobes, such as Mr. Hawk. meanwhile it would all be over in seconds, with the Troopers standing over the dead or stunned bodies of their assailants.
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Someone being Arrogant doesn't automatically make them helpless and defenseless as your scenario relies upon, we never saw Hugh's forces again, with no sign that they know how to contact them. Keep in mind that there wouldn't be enough time to call them in anyhow in the event of an Invasion. It's not like their pretense would make even the slightest of differences.
You vastly overestimate the power and speed of Assimilation, and underestimate the Empire, thus are doomed to fail.
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Remember they are Arrogant for a reason, especially in this case, where they have every right to feel invincible, because for all intents and purposes THEY ARE. However Arrogance does not equal Overconfidence, it simply means they are powerful as all get out and they know it.
There's a word for that, it's called an Insufferable Genius, sure the person may be arrogant and condescending, but they're still right. Their attitude has nothing to do with whether they are right or wrong.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion When people think they can't lose, thats when they tend to leave themselves open somehwere. Thats why the empire lost to the rebels in the first place., and thats why they would lose to the Federation... either that or the Enterprise NCC-1701 Z comming through a worm hole from the 30th century and wiping out the Imperial Invation... yep, that one works for me.
McMahonHater 10 months ago
Comment removed
Perion 10 months ago
@McMahonHater Sorry but bringing in a Hypothetical ship from the future (I'm not even going to bother with pointing out the problems with time travel and why that wouldn't work anyhow.) Is at best admitting that the Federation would lose, concession accepted.
When people think they can't lose, it can also be due to them having planned things very meticulously, and are intimately familiar with their abilities and those of their enemies.
Arrogance and Recklessness do not always go hand in hand.
Perion 10 months ago
@McMahonHater Again the Rebels won because they had technological Parity with the Empire and the Emperor put it all on the line to turn Luke to the dark side. We have seen him do this before, betting the farm on Anakin and it paying off, however, not only does the Federation lack technological parity, but there is nothing there for the Empire to make such a gambit over.
Perion 10 months ago
@McMahonHater
2) It assumes that somehow this assimilation is instantaneous, while we know for a fact it isn't, Assimilation requires both Nanoprobes and SURGERY, for the more complex implants, this process takes quite some time. No evidence exists for those who have been infected with Nanoprobes to be capable of assimilating others, and every piece of evidence we have of those who haven't undergone stage 2 assimilation suggests they cannot.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion All she needs is contole of a small group of Troopers, then she controles them throught the Nonoprobes to controle them, and use them to help take over the Star Destroyer. It's not like she would be alone when the Storm Trooper board the ship, she would have some Star Fleet and other alied alien races with her to help.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Again, she would be dead or unconcious with, at best, one troop with a momentary nanoprobe infection, again Nanoprobe infection is NOT instantanious, we see Federation soldiers with more than enough free will for at least a minute or so, and 7 would be dead or stunned in a split second.
Again you would need ALLOT more than a "small group" to take over even a fraction of the ISD. and They board via shuttle, like a TIE bomber type (that's how it was done in ANH)
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater
3) It assumes that the Empire has no experience fighting a self propagating viral infection that possesses it's hosts, while in reality they have extensive experience and even created once created one as a weapon. So they would have effective means of fighting them as well as a cure readily available (hint, it's called Bacta, and no the Borg nanoprobes would NOT be able to assimilate it)
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion And you are assuming that the Empire would have met the Borg before. Remember your Canadian history Perion. When the White European first came to North America the Natives got sick because they had not experience with the bacteria they brought with them. If they haven't encounter the borg Nonoprobes their is now sure way to know that they wouldn't work on "Bacta" especialy after the encounter with Species 8472.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater 8472 is 8472, not Bacta, what applies to one does not apply to the other as Borg lack the capacity for lateral, creative thought, as the Undine war proved, there would be zero time to develop something like that to be effective vs Bacta anyhow.
Also your analogy falls flat because the White Europeans in this case are the Empire while the Borg are the natives, and again Borg Nanoprobes are nothing new to them, they have plenty of experience with such things, and have created worse.
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater
4) A Star Destroyer carries thousands of troops, and have weapons that drones could never adapt to (non-frequency based energy weapons, slughtrowers, knives that could slice an arm off like butter, etc), not to mention the neutronium blast doors, poison gas injectors, turret guns and the ever present option of depressurizing sections of the ship and blowing the drones out into space. So even if you did get drones on board they would never be able to take over the ship.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion And yet a farm boy and a pirate were able to slip passed all that and sneak onto the Death Star no less. Face it, 7/9 is smarter then Solo and Skywalker, so she and other's in star fleet could come up with a batle plan to get them in.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Remember Vader, Tarkin and Leia all said that the Empire let them go, the only reason Han and Luke etc were able to get on or off the Death Star alive was because Vader wanted them to, it's in the film.
I don't see any evidence that 7/9 is more intelligent than either of them, she has more knowledge because of the database in her head, but so does C-3PO. Either way nothing she knows could possibly help her against the Empire.
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater
5) Even if they somehow had an intact Star Destroyer with no crew somehow and the security systems on board were non functional (obviously not by using your scenario which could never happen) It would take them centuries to millennia to reverse engineer it. An Invasion of the Federation would last minutes to an hour before the Federation collapsed, so they clearly would not have anywhere near enough time to do so.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion First of all you Arrogant shit wad, my scenerio is probably the best way for the federation to go, and it would work, because the Empire is full of arogan idiots (not unlike yourself) who would walk into federation space thinking it would be a cake walk. That feeling of Invulnerability alone would be the exact reason why my idea would work. Also, once they have controle of the Destroyer the picards buddy Hugh could come in and finnish the Assimilation, giving them the know how they need
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Your scenario is based on you underestimating the Empire, thinking them no more than, as you put it "arogan idiots" Meanwhile I have analyzed every piece of canon, and even a great deal of non-canon Trek tech, Federation, Dominion, Borg etc, and have found that their Feeling of invulnerability is well deserved.
Your scenario also relies on 7 of 9 keeping her implants, where as we know from Future Janeway that odds are she won't be by the time the Empire attacks.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion Jeri Ryan doesn't have Implants her boobs are real.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater 5(CONT) ) Even if you dropped a B2 Bomber into Civil War America, with all the scientists who invented the thing, it would still take decades to a century to build another one, they simply do not have the resource infrastructure or required technologies to make it possible. So at best America would get a B2 bomber 10-20 years before it was supposed to.
Now Imagine if you dropped that same B2 Bomber and science team into Ancient Egypt and had the modern US military Invading them.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion Amanda Roger, nuff said, you lose, the Empire Loses, and all is well in Federation space.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Again, zero evidence she would intervene, now that she's a Q. Other than your saying so. Meanwhile again we have a great deal of evidence that she wouldn't, not least of which being Q law, so unless she wants to spend the rest of eternity in a comet for even trying (and failing) then she isn't gonna do squat.
Perion 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Oh and for the Purposes of Star Wars vs Star Trek it's often said "Same Universe, Separate Galaxies" so the Empire is from the same Dimension as the Federation, just that they are separated by time and distance (A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.)
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion Well then the Empire is gone because the Story also say "Long, long ago in a Galixy far, far, away." so you lose again.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater Nice try that's not a valid argument. It's called a Wormhole for one thing.
Perion 11 months ago
@Perion And another reality all together... after all one is in the Rodenberry Univerce and the other is in the Lucas Univerce.
McMahonHater 11 months ago
@McMahonHater
None of this can be said about the Feds vs the Empire
The Empire has superior designs, tactics, technology thousands of years ahead of the federation and work on completely alien principles that the federation has NEVER been able to understand, on top of this the Empire is so fast, and so large, that they could take a drop from the ocean that is their starfleet and conquer or destroy the entire federation in a matter of minutes to hours tops.
Perion 1 year ago
@McMahonHater
Um, Jedi have Precognition as well, Anakin found out that it could be as little ahead as when racing a podracer, or seeing the death of his wife while giving birth.
Also, the word "forseen" seems to be common with Vader and the Emperor...
iherduliekthem 1 year ago
@iherduliekthem Yes, the Emperor forsaw victory, and then he lost.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
@McMahonHater
He foresaw that the Rebels would come to the Endor Moon, so he sent a regiment of his finest soldiers.
Did those Rebels ever show up?
iherduliekthem 1 year ago
@iherduliekthem Yes, and he also predicted they would fail, and the won.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
@McMahonHater
By a stroke of luck that Chewy didn't land flat on his ass when swinging on the vine.
There is a bit unhaziness, but Jedi seem to be able to use foresight when they need it most (piloting a ship, knowing when someone is around the bend, fighting a single person or group of enemies, etc.). Some Jedi/Sith have better power of Foresight than others, as Anakin showed more of it than the Emperor did.
iherduliekthem 1 year ago
"...Always in motion, the future is..." Even though the Emperor was able to predict certain events, he wasn't able to see everything that did or could happen. For example, the Emperor saw the Rebels on Endor, resulting in him sending his Legion of best troops on the surface, but maybe he didn't see(let alone consider) that they would meet up and befriend the Ewoks. A slight miscalculation on his part...
Slimer2x3 1 year ago
@Perion Of course it's always possible Q would cause the Empire to come into the Star Trek dimention, because he thought it would be entertaining as well. He's a real prick at times LOL.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
@McMahonHater In "Star Wars vs Star Trek: Conquest" Q is implied as being the direct cause of the confrontation, and we find out that he has been similarly tormenting Picard's opposite number on the Empire side.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion I Where can I find that. I didn't no they had anybody as useless as Picard in the Star Wars Universe.
McMahonHater 1 year ago
star trek wins always , weapons ad sheidls are better
draven5149 1 year ago
@draven5149 sorry, but that's not the case at all. Trek shields and weapons are extremely low yield compared to Star Wars, Trek torpedoes are more powerful than phasers yet are only in the double digit megatons at most, and even the Flagship has only 1 launcher it can use on any given target.
Star Wars Turbolasers (don't let the "laser" part fool you, they aren't really l.a.s.e.r. at all) Are in the triple digit Gigatons at least and even ships not designed for heavy combat have 12 of these.
Perion 1 year ago
Its almost been 3 years.....
Austindude3954 1 year ago
Wow, i've been waiting three years for part 3. I know animation takes a few weeks for things like Red vs Blue. It can't take three years to make this.
Artoofeva 1 year ago
because of you noobs he'll never make part 3
Telamon8 1 year ago
@Telamon8 piss of fagot
endlessdarkness10 1 year ago
This is part 3 btw ;)
Perion 1 year ago
STAR WARS RULES
TheGoobeee 1 year ago
The empire should have just sent the death star
zacker150 1 year ago
Why bother? the Galaxy Gun is better anyhow.
Perion 1 year ago
DAM IT I WANT IT TO BE REAL
IBioPoxI 1 year ago 2
Also I think perion was winning. Btw gl with Ddos.
SycllaLoL 1 year ago
Just btw what does military experiance have to do with this? Aside from the fact that "lasers" travel slower then modern day bullets and are visable in space somehow Makes both fiction.thank you good day.
SycllaLoL 1 year ago
The Federation will never fall. I garauntee that
WARBIRDS1993 1 year ago
Amusing, because if the Empire ever did show up, they would, quite literally overnight.
Perion 1 year ago
@Perion Let's face it Perion. If the empereor was on that supersar Destroyer and he was leading the attack. He would fail. He's completely insane. The Federation officers are trained to be cool-headed and make good decisions. They could simply out-wit Darth Sidious. And why haven't you finished this vid? We are all eager to see how it plays out. Despite my opinions
WARBIRDS1993 1 year ago
@Perion Let's face it Perion. If Emperor Sidious was leading this attack on the Federation, he would ultimately fail because he is completely insane! His lust for power so often blinded him. Starfleet officers are trained to be cool-headed and think before they act. There is no way the Empire could win. Plus, once the Federation came under attack, the other races would be too. They would have to band together for a much stronger force. Much more powerful than the Imperial fleet
WARBIRDS1993 1 year ago
You underestimate the power of the Empire,
A single one of their vessels, considered old and obsolete by the time of the original trilogy, and never designed for heavy ship to ship combat in it's prime is already, compared to a Galaxy Class it's. only 110m longer, but more than 3 times faster than impulse and tens of thousands of times faster than warp.and hundreds of thousands of times the firepower and millions of times the shielding.
Perion 1 year ago
This thing's main role? it's a Dropship, carrying 16,000 highly trained and heavily armed soldiers that make Jem'Hadar look like a bunch of tribbles, supported by hundreds of combat vehicles to which the federation and it's allies have not even a remote analogue to.
A mere 2,000 Romulans were expected to hold Vulcan for an extended period of time, even though the rest of the Federation would undoubtedly send reinforcements to try to take them back, they felt 2,000 troops would be enough...
Perion 1 year ago