I also have a question- if gender is socially created and not coming from nature, what is driving trans-gendered people to change? I mean, don't we have it from the horses mouth here when they say 'I was born the wrong sex'.
Additionally, you are completely at odds with Darwinian theory. Men and women have evolved both the genitals and the mental dispositions required to perform their accustomed roles. Prenatal testosterone studies have shown this.
So if you want to be scientific, get some science that backs up your position, waving your hands and just saying so doesn't cut it.
So, it is a big problem, in your mind at least, is that men are being forced to be manly and women are being forced to be womanly -- and this is due to societal pressures?
Norway is considered THE top country as far as gender equality, yet, what you find there, when people are allowed to be whatever they wish -- is a high correlation of men doing men jobs and women doing women jobs. And as you go down the list, into more 'oppressive' countries, the crossover increases, disproving your theory.
Hey, I'm doing a documentary for school on Gender Sensitivity. Is it alright if I use this as a reference? I will state that it is, in fact, not my own but yours. Please reply ASAP! Thanks :)
Spotted Hyenas live in female dominated packs of up to 80 individuals, and the pattern of female dominance is observed even in the absence of culture i.e. in cubs raised by humans. Although there is some overlap in body mass, even the biggest male will be subservient to the smallest female.
The rest of the thought process is left as an exercise for the reader.
What's your opinion on cross-dressing? (i. e. guy in a bridal dress on his wedding day.) Disgusting, repulsive, perverted, sexually deviant, weird, gay, funny, or just plain wrong?
You said that we can not possibly tell the difference between traits that are natural gendered and traits that are from cultural conditioning...true, but this does not mean that they don't exist; they most certainly do. Just like we know there is both good and evil, we can not separate the two, which is why ethics is so fascinating. I would like to see a movt. of men & women who are not trapped in the modern 1 dimension opinion of GR & recognize the natural and necessary uses of gender roles
@Rachulie brilliant comment, I couldn't agree more, gender SHOULD be irrelevant these days. It is not just in your place, where I live in the UK it is the same :@:@:@
sure gender roles might not all be bad. but when they surround u 24/7, and u dont belong to that gender in ur head, it's a big deal. i live in the bible belt. im pretty sure im gender queer but could just be that im just me, n i dont take my personality from gender roles. hell, every1 down here constantly focuses on gender. 'oh no, that's a boy's shirt' 'that's a girl's job' &just making random comments ALL THE TIME about my gender.. is it only down here or the rest of the usa?
I'm all for free thinking but i honestly dont believe human survival would continue much longer if everyone abandoned gender roles.. i think they are natural
Most of the people that really complain about gender roles are gay people. Why? Because dey want everyone to open up to their way of life n hate da fact men have to be a certain way and women gotta b a certain way. To be honest some gender roles r wrong I can agree on that, but a man has to b a man n a women has to be a women otherwise their will be no balance
this is why i lost respect for americans. i used to look up to american family values. But now with decadence and moral degeneracy, u can count on the liberals and their followers and supporters to ruin everything guarranteed
Let's abolish all cultural roles. Nobody take orders from anybody. Everybody do exactly what they want.
The first to protest would be the feminists, who expect the men to build everything and deliver the shipments of food, shelter, clothing, as well as keep the electricity on.
Gender roles are suddenly convenient when it involves MEN doing all the hardest and most necessary infrastructure jobs. God knows feminists won't build or deliver anything.
Well, if you believe that to be true, shouldn't you WANT gender roles to be abolished, thus forcing all these 'lazy feminists' you refer to to step up to the plate? Unless of course you believe that women are incapable of stepping up to the plate once the cultural conditioning is gone.
...What's the term for that kind of belief? Oh right, a gender role.
I am currently doing an essay on how gender roles have evolved in our society and to a lesser extent on how they vary based on region. Though most of your rant (for lack of a better word) is based on your personal opinion, I found it very helpful in givng me a few ideas and thought I would thank you!
You see, I was born in 1993, but I look like I'm born in 1996. Everywhere I go, I'm treated as an 18 year old, but deep down inside I feel like a 15 year old. I am discriminated everywhere I go. I am not allowed to play for my U-17 soccer team even though everyone is bigger than me!
In the USA, people can change their sex when they feel like they were born the wrong gender. Well I feel like I was born 3 years too early! I am depressed and am very sad...
Fabulous video! As a female who defies some, but not all of the stereotypical female gender roles, I think the gender roles discussion is one we seriously need to engage in. One thing that I definitely notice is that women are now freer than men to defy the female gender roles.
@plutorip yeah that is pretty sad. If a girl wants to a skirt, its fine, if she wants to wear pants its normal, but if a boy wants to wear pants it's fine, if he wants to wear a skirt he's mocked, teased, and often turned away and told to change, especially by parents and schools.
Same for makeup. (tho girls like me are mocked for hating it)
It's really sad. I personally hate skirts and makeup and think they look ugly on anyone, but if anyone wants to wear them it's their choice...
thanks for discussing this, i am male and can attest that because i do not enjoy everything that a male is "supposed" to enjoy i am often put under societal pressures to change what i seem to naturally enjoy which i find to be very annoying
If one believes this strongly on gender roles it really implies the probability of determinism which contradicts free will. Your implying that we don't think the way we do on our own rather our thoughts are molded by societies influence. We are nothing more than what gravity is to a rock and our choice is an illusion.
More importantly be like the guy in the matrix at times and enjoy the steak even though you know its fake. Can't take life to seriously and just enjoy our meaningless existences.
You can still see genetic difference averages. Men tend to be taller than women. This doesnt mean some women are taller than men. Men tend to want to date a shorter woman. You might say this is socially constructed and if it isn't something that is in our genes preference it's impossible to determine based on societies pressure. If men wanted taller women our species would have evolved that way in the first place though. Therefore its possible to see though stereotypes ie gender roles.
But the example with the boy and pink alone seems to deal with many different cultural points. Sounds simple but can turn out to be complex.
One thing may intertwines with so many other factors. Brings to mind topics like habitus, social distinction and Bourdieu, or power relations and Foucault. Interesting video though. Now I feel like researching this. Foucault also writes about sexuality and gender, I think.... But I'm no expert, only a student.
Gender roles in language is particularly interesting.... it upsets me sometimes the choice of personal pronouns available for women in Japanese. Darn it, I like the sound of "ore" but I'm not a man and so I'll sound like a fool. I guess I will stick with boring ol' "watashi". What other choice is there without sounding girly?
I like studying Japanese though... some languages have even more of this gendered speech, and age differentiations.
i remember when i was younger, there was this boy in our class, he was 'cool' and one day he walked in with a pink shirt on. the next day, like 7 other guys wore pink, and if you asked him why he wore that pink shirt (He still wears it sometimes) he would either say, Because pink is cool, Pink is better then blue, Pink is awesome or pink is just a colour. i totally agreed with him, and i totally agree with you.
the idea of gender roles are socially constructed concepts that aim to repress and control the mass in order to create a society that functions...in a capitalist system...wait...wat am i talking bout...im gonna shut up now...
Men and women are two very different members of the same species. We have different tasks to accomplish, and therefore we think and act differently. Those differences are necessary, and complimentary. When we try to change or deny those differences, we try to change and deny ourselves. My personal bottom line though is that if my daughter wants to play with dolls, I don't want her to feel like that's wrong. And if she wants to play with cars, I don't want her to feel like that's wrong either.
I agree that there is a level of cultural conditioning, but I believe that it's more helping to develop talents than to force children into specific paths. I think it is biological. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of different human cultures past and present on this earth, many of which have developed in near isolation from other communities. I don't know exact percentages, but I would be comfortable betting that in at least 95 percent of those cultures women were the primary caretakers.
woman possibly focus her efforts on raising children if she's worried about how to put food on the table, where the rent money is coming from, whether there's going to be water tomorrow? Men have a vital role too. I think our society as a whole would really benefit from a shift back to traditional mom at home, dad working gender roles, IF and I say most emphatically IF the opportunity to learn and grow and create and thrive is still made available to both sexes.
@russianseamonster While I completely agree with the importance of raising children in a nurturing environment (having a parent around and such), when you say women are better suited for taking care of children I disagree. Little girls get their baby dolls to play with and take care of, they pay house, so on and so forth. It's part of society's gender roles too, not something biological.
their interests. Then they should take that, and use it in the very best career, the very noblest passion. To help a child become. And while you're raising children, YES take ballet, YES learn to fix the car, YES take socio-economics. But don't get so caught up in that that you lose sight of what's important. And after the children have been successfully launched, YES have a career. But take time for that vital gender role. And men have a role also, to support women in that endeavor. How can a
themself, without someone to protect their right to grow as an individual, their right to learn, their right to choose who they are, that potential is significantly stunted. They are so busy battling to BE that they have little time to thrive. Well educated mothers, who are constantly seeking knowledge and to be a better mother, are essential to society. Women should go to college. They should understand how the world works, all sides of it. They should have opinions and be vital, and pursue
Women tend to be, (I'm not saying all women are, but the gender as a whole tends to be) better suited to taking care of children. The differences in the way our brains work, the differences in the way we relate, make us more suited to it. Even our bodies are built for it better. And children are our most precious asset as a race. They are our future. A child may have the potential to be something great. But without a mentor to foster that potential, without a cheerleader to help them believe in
I was raised in a home where I wasn't "confined" to "gender roles". I happily helped my Dad fix his car or fixed the toilet with my Mom, and then baked cookies with Dad and learned how to crochet from Mom. I think in matters of access to knowledge, both genders should be allowed to grow and explore. However, some gender roles are vital. I find it extremely disturbing that so many women are working. While Mom and Dad are both off pursuing a career, children suffer.
Lady, you opposed gender roles and yet I see you with long hair and characterized female clothing--and you say you don't want to be part of it? Seems to me you are configured as well to be socially accepted, or rather, socially expected.
I completely agree with the ridiculousness of gender roles. I remember writing a research report in middle school on women in aviation and (forgive me if this isn't correct to the tee - it's been nearly six years!) I remember reading about when women were first allowed to fly planes. There was this one rule saying they had to keep a certain amount of "femininity" about the cabin - you know, makeup, hair brushes, that sort of thing. Really?? Anyway, great video!! Love you guys!!
PPS Until 100 years ago it was pink for boys 'naturally' anticipating the manly red of blood and fire and danger, blue for girls like the gentle relaxing sky and cornflowers. See how many old pictures have males swaggering in rose, females reclining in pastel blue. Think of 'Alice in Wonderland'
PS The moment a man says you're cute and intelligent, so attractive feminists will seize on that as 'patronising' because it is 'feminine'. Equality allows women to call men cute and intelligent, therefore attractive too, without telling the women that they should be ashamed to be glorifying his ego. Feminist gender distinction: Man attracted to woman, he sees her as a 'sex object' he wants to 'use' to suit himself; woman attracted to man, she is 'submitting' for him to use as his 'sex object'
It is still much more acceptable for female to adopt male roles than vice-versa. This confirms superiority of male roles, keeps men from liberation from them and eliminates them from women. Male roles are consumer-producer dependent on commerce, female more personal traditionally more creative of food & clothing not taking orders from a boss. Independence rivals Commerce - why buy what you can make for yourself cheaper? 'Equality' now means 'male colonialism' eliminating feminine from both sexes
I totally agree. its not fair that even young, innocent boys who just so happen to think that pink is a cool color would get teased and harrased for such a simple, mindless thing.
@yourstrulyoctapus Yes, and have you seen the recent hullabaloo over the little boy who decided to dress up as Daphne from Scooby Doo? (Search "nerdy apple bottom" to find it.)
@sistersalad a more recent example I found on disney channel while watching my younger twin brother/sister. I can't remember what show it was, but these girls wanted this guys help in dancing. He didn't want to help, but they blackmailed him by threatening to show him at like 10 in his Halloween costume, as princess Leia which convinced him to help her to avoid the embarrassment.
But still, in books, they use only brothers and men, what about that? I don't find that fair... keep the sister salad name! I love the ring to it! Please keep it! The only reason you probably chose it is because it has a nice ring to it... sibling salad is yuck, like a nasty flavor... or brother salad, even more gross SISTER SALAD!!! ALL THE WAY!!!!!
If having a society is a natural part of being human (not saying you said that, but most people would agree that it is) , then annything generated from our society is also "natural". Therfore cultural gender roles ARE in fact "natural".
Because of this, your second argument is invallid. Of course this means that if we ever manage to elliminate the differences of gender roles in our society that will be the "natural" development , and trying to get there is also a "natural" part.
You talk about these subjects so nicely and refreshingly, it's so great for your opinions to be addressed like this, lightly and pleasantly but still very serious about what you believe in.
I 100% agree with everything you said here, and I hope lots more people watch your videos! :)
i don't have a problem with men being referred to as sisters- to me it suggests family and therefore unity or something shared. anyway, how often do people use the greeting "hi guys" to a group that includes females? that doesn't seem to cause much concern, it's just a friendly greeting. great video.x
i love how you can nerd out and i still love it because i barely secretly want to nerd out on camera about history too :) you're clearly in residence? schoolin'/ coolin'
I agree with you! This topic was actually covered yesterday with a group of my friends, and I wish I'd seen this earlier so I could reference it. You did an excellent job of expressing your opinion (opi-onion? does that work?) and I'm proud to be a subscriber!
I agree that gender roles are important. however, the problem of most feminists is, that they are all academics and cannot talk with normal people. Maybe it is better in English speaking countries, but in Germany/Austria, the feminists still speak about "heteronormativity, gender roles" and nobody knows what they want. I also hate when some demand that boys/men change into girls/women (gender) or blame all for not speaking as they want.
Hi sistersalad and saladites. I'm so glad you did this video Liz! It's something I think everyone needs to hear more. Another important 'debunk' of the 'it's in our genes' myth, is simply the fact that lots of people have varied sex chromosome differences. Some people never even know because the effects of this varience aren't major and chromosome tests are rare. But some people do and I think the existence of trans and intersex people is important to mention in your argument. Good job though!
You are amazing!! I'm a total feminist, but you bring up topics I hadn't even thought about! I really enjoy your videos, and I'm definitely showing them to a friend of mine who....doesn't think men and women are all equal. Please keep posting videos, they're great!!
Your friend is right! In America men are less likely to be as well educated or have as many civil rights or as much chances at a higher paying job if you look at median rather than mean averages in most states.
Plus there is some evidence that women are more likely to be involved in violence resulting in the deaths of children but will serve only a fraction of the time a man would serve.
So basically you're against conformity of widely accepted and assumed classifications which promote utter ignorance of the very nature of existence? I love you, marry me?
PLEASE DONT READ THIS. YOU WILL GET KISSED ON THE NEAREST POSSIBLE FRIDAY BY THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE. TOMORROW WILL BE THE BEST DAY OF YOUR LIFE. HOWEVER IF YOU DONT POST THIS COMMENT something bad will happen. NOW UV STARTED READIN DIS DUNT STOP THIS IS SO SCARY. SEND THIS TO 5 VIDEOS IN 143 MINUTES WHEN UR DONE PRESS F6 AND UR CRUSHES NAME WILL APPEAR ON THE SCREEN IN BIG LETTERS. THIS IS SO SCARY CAUSE IT ACTUALLY WORKS THIS ACTUALLY WORKS
This is the first vid i have watch, nd i think ur good but i disagree in a sense..
I have delved into this topic condiserably as it is on my psychology course of which my exam is in 7 days.
I think there are difference between male and female, and this should be encouraged so we can better ourselves as a whole. How ever i agree with ur point on the Qs that while women and men may have different strengths there is no stopping a particallar man betting better at a 'womans' thing or a visa versa.
@Kultivater As a psychology student around this period i have lots of exams and was typing that in a somewhat state of rush. I also suffer from dyslexias, there are serveral words i cut down to meet word count. I hope you can look the meaning and no forucs on these miniour discrepancies.
wow, that was a refreshingly intelligent (and accurate) articulation of the subject. To tell the truth, I was 'cleaning up' old subscriptions I thought were now irrelevant to this time in my life, and came across your quirky pic, clicked on it, and got 'the chills' watching this vid. I'm a 29yr old married male long a fan of female equality (I was one of 5 males in a 'Women in Society' class of 150 students). I love to see such compassionate intelligence in our world. THANK YOU!
This is brilliant! I enjoy your videos and thoughts so much! They are so insightful, yet they are not dull or boring. :) I agree that gender roles are something that are engrained into us throughout life, and so it is seemingly impossible to tell if they are truly a part of us. I think it is time for people to be more accepting, for what does is matter if a boy likes pink or a girl wants to be a dirt bike rider?
This is brilliant! I enjoy your videos and thoughts so much! They are so insightful, yet they are not dull or boring. :) I agree that gender roles are something that are engrained into us throughout life, and so it is seemingly impossible to tell if they are truly a part of us. I think it is time for people to be more accepting, for what does is matter if a boy likes pink or a girl wants to be a dirt bike rider?
well, 'sister salad' comes from something your mama said when she saw all of you together. and i still think you're right to address your actual sisters, alexandra and invisisis. but that's just me. so i'd stick with the sister thing just because it's about whom you intend to address. it's not a comment on gender or gender roles and constructions.
Gender roles are a product of a "safe" and "settled" civilization. If we were all fighting to find food from day to day...gender role wouldn't matter worth a damn...only who has something for the pot at dinner time. (This was particularly true of the frontier experience of early America.) So...if an apocalypse happens in 2021 for example...this will all be a mute point.
I read your channel's profile, so I understood the greeting. I just think it's great that you're sharing with us! I think gender roles developed based on our physicality in ways that made particular aspects of family life easier for us in the past; when more aspects of life, specifically work, tended to involve heavier physical labor compared to now. It was a simple, practical way to divide labor back then.
@njolee However throughout time gender-based perceptions and expectations spilled out from aspects of life, where they were practical, relevant or reasonable, to contexts where they were not. These mishaps prompt questions like: Why are inanimate objects designated gender in some languages? Why couldn't women in the US vote less than 100 yrs ago? Why (in the year 2010) are women blamed for earthquakes in Iran? (I have theories on each that I won't digress into.)
@njolee Modern technologies have removed the need for human power from most task of our daily lives. So these days we don't have the kind of justification to "genderize" physical labor/task division, let alone all things that should not have been genderized in the first place.
I read your channel's profile, so I understood the greeting. I just think it's great that you're sharing with us! I think gender roles developed based on our physicality in ways that made particular aspects of family life easier for us in the past; when more aspects of life, specifically work, tended to involve heavier physical labor compared to now. It was a simple, practical way to divide labor back then.
Women tend to be considered the weaker gender all around the world. I feel that women have a much stronger role in our society than in most of the world. Though I don't always agree with the way gender roles influence the way we think I realize that we have it better here than in most of the world.
Also, women tend to have a maternal instinct, this is just natural. There are women who truly love to take care of their family . Also, men tend to want to take care of their women and family. Then, we could always take a look at other cultures...
@AnntaColby Why would this "maternal instinct" be "natural"? I haven't met any "natural" (and therefore non-socialised) "women" lately ... or ever ... ^^
There are good and bad to gender roles. I get worked up when I'm told I can't do the same things as men but there are some things I really can't do that men can. Our bodies are different, men tend to be stronger and women more "delicate". Now this is not always the case but generally speaking men are stronger physically. I don't think it's right to treat someone differently because they are a "girly" man or "she-man". The truth is everyone's bodies are different.
@AnntaColby Then why distinguish between male and female instead of physically strong and physically "weak"? (Or, better even, not only distinguish between two possibilities but all variations?)
I'd also like to point out that one problem with gender roles is that they don't take into account those with disabilities or other obstacles that make it hard for them to do certain tasks you would expect a guy or a girl to do. Some guys can't be strong construction workers or military men, some girls can't be nurses (for lack of better example) or whatever inspires them because of these obstacles
I like your comments and appreciate them. I for one always have different interest than what is associated with my gender. People don't understand it but I continue proudly. In such instance that I have always made friends with girls easier than with guys. Its just the way it is, and I never feel like it has ever taken away from my "masculinity" or however you want to put.
Why would people get butt hurt about you addressing your sisters at the beginning of your videos? /facepalm.
Gender roles are everywhere no doubt but I don't think they're going anywhere anytime soon. Now there are lots of people who do things that 'cross' those lines but it's still looked upon as a bad thing genereally, especially if it's a guy doing 'girl' stuff. Should things change? Sure, but it's going to be a loooooooooong time before we could hope that it does : /
First off, I was super excited that I am IN THIS VIDEO. Anyway, I think gender equity is still yet to be achieved. For example, in Pennsylvania women with the same experience and education as their male counterparts are paid only three-fourths of what men are paid in the same jobs. Studies have also shown that women are much less likely to negotiate salary raises than men. Two good books on women negotiating and gender roles: "Women Don't Ask" and "Ask For It", both cowritten by Linda Babcock
Clearly, there's something innate about "male-ness". I would argue that gender roles are more of a time saving device that we use to describe things as being inherently male or female, not neccessarily a prescription for how you're supposed to act.
An experimenter took groups of young males and females and forced the males to play with dolls and the females to play with trucks (among other things). Turns out they rejected the roles that were imposed on them.
The males started using the Barbie dolls as baseball bats. The girls started having "truck tea parties".
@andharvey8 And to Culwin just below too, about 2nd graders segregating themselves based on gender. All you are proving is that they have learned gender as a construction by then. Children are extremely quick on picking up language, culture, and social expectations. We dress boy and girl children differently from birth, give them different toys, talk to them in different ways, comfort them differently. A child has no choice. They learn to think based on the models presented to them.
@StephenByerly, You would have a point there, but the kids they were using in the experiment were pre-K level. They didn't have a whole lot of time to acquire "social conditioning".
@andharvey8 You assume that social and linguistic learning for a little kid is a matter of years of time. They are being socially conditioned from the time they're popped out, starting with a gendered name, certain-colored walls, ways parents include him/her in their activities, ways people talk to him/her, TV shows they're pointed towards, books they're read, toys they're given, and bathrooms they're carried into. There's ample opportunity to be socially conditioned even in a year of experience
Perhaps you could use your cultural anthropological insight to discern another widespread condition that frequently results in one being mercilessly teased and disparaged to the extent that such an individual feels compelled to hide or disown this condition? The image I keep getting is of someone attempting to roll sideways up a grass-covered hill. For me this is the elephant in the living room that seriously dampens my enthusiasm for this discussion of gender roles.
I'm not going to lie. This is my favorite video of yours. I rant about gender roles in society all the time, and it drives me nuts that people subscribe to the belief that these things we associate with each gender ate inherently male or female.
I am a man, I enjoy pink, dolls, explosions, gun fights, fight club, tea parties, and girly deoderant. I feel left out due to the fact I meet the qualifications of both gender roles. I will write sternly worded letter to you superviser about leaving my people out.
BTW i just wanted to say i really appreciate that you take the time to comment on everyone's status! it brightened my day that my favorite video bloggers took the time to actually read my comment! and of course i'm promoting the video... i'm telling everyone
@jpely89 My pleasure! I love when these videos actually spark a good discussion! Thanks so much for telling people about the video, too--that means a lot to me.
@strati5 I couldn't access the link (probably a failure of mine to translate the code necessary for comment posting). Could you send it via message, or email to sistersalad at gmail?
Wow, this video was totally unexpected yet I'm quite glad you brought it up. Since this channel was initially developed as a method of contact between two sisters, I never really assumed it was to refer to your 'audience'... In fact it's kind of funny to hear you get hate mail on this topic. I mean, the phrase "hey guys" is almost a universal greeting, and yet when are women given the right to complain? This video really made me see how 'male' is equated with 'the default' and women, the other.
@sunmarsh Well, it was never anything approaching hate mail, but you make a very interesting point about the "default" perception of the male gender enshrined in certain societal conventions.
Wonderful, thank you!!! Given the nature of my grad studies, I could open up the whole big can o worms and note the results of generations and generations who have insisted on attrributing the culturally constructed gender roles onto the deity, and then using circular logic to argue that said deity is therefore male and that all non-males are therefore inferior...
EXAMPLE! i am usually a pretty free spirit and yesterday was BEAUTIFUL so, I decided i was going to put a flower behind my ear and walk around barefoot. Lets just say I was called a particular name which is not a nice term for gay people only because my actions where 'feminine' in nature.
@jpely89 Thanks for sharing your example. I'm sorry to hear you encountered such closed-minded people in the midst of what sounds like a very lovely way to spend a nice day. Did you pass along a link to this video? :-)
i'm also fascinated with the whole issue of gender identity, heck my 2nd book of poetry deals so with the issues of defining myself as "girl." there are definitely cultural norms but it is hard to ignore certain physical attributes that make the sexes "different" at least in physicality but should the possible functions of our bodies define ultimately who we are and what we do? i'm asking more questions than i am answering but just a fascinating topic :) - jessie
I'll totally be your male sister! I used to be ashamed of using the term sister or girl when speaking to other guys.
Why is it that women are supposed to relate to men, but men aren't expected to relate to women?
If you've ever heard of the Nostalgia Chick, she actually addresses this issue smartly in a review she has entitled "The Smurfette Principle" referencing past cartoons and TV shows that may have had an effect on this. If you're interested in watching it, I can send you the link! :)
@indigothecat Ah, yes, the Smurfette Principle! Very interesting. I've noticed this phenomenon most strongly when it comes to literature. Girls are much more willing to read books with male main characters (e.g. Harry Potter) than boys are to read books with female main characters (hard to think of an example since, due to this principle, female-main-character books rarely get as popular, and I refuse to compare Harry Potter to Twilight)...
So very interesting and intelligent. On a British program called QI (if you don't know it, I'm sure you'd love it) they said that... something like... little over a hundred years ago, pink was the colour for baby boy, blue for a girl. Just goes to show how arbitrary many gender signifiers are.
All that said, I agree that since values are assigned in any human culture, it would be optimal to remove the gender roles wholesale. I'm sure you'd agree as to the enormous challenge that represents, though.
@atemporaryhero I am all for multi-post responses! Thanks for yours. I agree with your conclusion that the main problem is the assignation of values to roles, though I'd like to quibble with your quibble regarding the physical ability gap: (1) Most modern gender roles are not based on such a gap. (2) I wonder how much of physical differences come from ancient labor division and how much from selective breeding on the basis of expectations about physicality (think Victorian England).
Take the age-old hunter/gatherer vs. nurturer divide. Taken on average, I think it's hard to argue the physiological gap between men and women that makes men better suited to chase down the mastodon, , while women stay back at the yurt, tending to the offspring, gathering food from the local flora etc.
I think the real break-point comes when /values/ are assigned to the roles, rather than just the roles themselves, and the variance in assigned value is what leads to social inequality.
Great video. I agree nearly completely. That said, I have a minor quibble with point 2. (Note: I'm having a devil of a time fitting my commentary into 500 characters, so I'll beg you to bear with a double post, and some copious trimming of thoughts).
I tend to think that there is a logical basis for some gender roles based on physical abilities, despite the capability overlap in some cases (though, in others, I think the overlap may actually be negligible at best-- for example, childbearing?)
So, to conclude my previous comment I do not think we need to eradicate gender roles. I think we as a society need to accept the fact that gender roles are generalizations, and that like all generalizations they are not going to be true for everyone. So teach your son that it's not ok to make fun of other boys if they like pink and teach your daughters not to pick on other girls if they don't like barbie. That is what we should be working towards. Acceptance.
So, to conclude on my previous comment I do not think we need to work towards eradicating gender roles. I think we need to increase understanding and acceptance of the fact that gender roles are not set facts or rules. They generalizations, and just like all generalizations they are not 100% of all people.
I agree that gender roles can have negative effects, but i disagree that they must be eradicated. The majority of gender roles were not created for some arbitrary reason. They were born from apparent patterns. The truth is the majority of women like to smell like those flowery deodorants and also like the pretty pink package. I don't think that gender roles are in themselves a bad thing. The real problem here is societies inability to accept those people who do not conform to gender roles.
@TehBoomBoomTeh But how do you know that the fact that the majority of women like flowery smells and pink packages (provided that is in fact true) is non-arbitrary, or at least not arbitrarily culturally induced?
(I do agree that the real problem is a lack of acceptance of those who fail to conform to gender roles, and I am all about teaching our kids not to pick on others who don't meet their expectations.)
Great video, Lizz, very interesting stuff! I agree with you too, that we can't just assume things about people based on gender roles, nor should we lock people into boxes based on what's "girl" and what's "boy." The Q example was pretty interesting, too.
Also, I think this marks my second appearance on this channel. And I was in Monica's video this week too. I feel so included!
This is so left field but I'm transgendered. Female to Male. That's really confusing. I look masculine but act so fem. So I said screw it and I go with Androgeous. I apologize for all the spelling mistakes. Hope you found this interesting
I think gender roles are not necesarily a negative thing. They have existed for thousands of years and must at have positive influences on culture, if not other cultures with no gender roles would probably have won out
@lifemerelife (1) How do you know they have existed for thousands of years? (2) Are you concluding that war, murder, and slavery are also not necessarily negative? Because those have also, presumably, existed for thousands of years.
Just because things are not evolutionarily harmful doesn't mean they're evolutionarily beneficial. And the fact that a trait has allowed a culture to survive only makes it a positive thing if your main concern is survival rather than, say, justice, love, etc.
I also have a question- if gender is socially created and not coming from nature, what is driving trans-gendered people to change? I mean, don't we have it from the horses mouth here when they say 'I was born the wrong sex'.
mindprism 1 week ago
"...is something I am interested in eradicating from society"
Really? You want to 'eradicate' peer pressure of all sorts then, amongst a tribal species that has millions of years head start on you.
My guess is you want to piss and moan and feel noble forever for taking on such a impossible and ridiculous task. Seek help young lady.
mindprism 1 week ago
Additionally, you are completely at odds with Darwinian theory. Men and women have evolved both the genitals and the mental dispositions required to perform their accustomed roles. Prenatal testosterone studies have shown this.
So if you want to be scientific, get some science that backs up your position, waving your hands and just saying so doesn't cut it.
mindprism 1 week ago
So, it is a big problem, in your mind at least, is that men are being forced to be manly and women are being forced to be womanly -- and this is due to societal pressures?
Norway is considered THE top country as far as gender equality, yet, what you find there, when people are allowed to be whatever they wish -- is a high correlation of men doing men jobs and women doing women jobs. And as you go down the list, into more 'oppressive' countries, the crossover increases, disproving your theory.
mindprism 1 week ago
Hey, I'm doing a documentary for school on Gender Sensitivity. Is it alright if I use this as a reference? I will state that it is, in fact, not my own but yours. Please reply ASAP! Thanks :)
MaquiRivera 1 week ago
ideological madness
imscaredofcoffee 2 weeks ago
Gender is in our genes:
Spotted Hyenas live in female dominated packs of up to 80 individuals, and the pattern of female dominance is observed even in the absence of culture i.e. in cubs raised by humans. Although there is some overlap in body mass, even the biggest male will be subservient to the smallest female.
The rest of the thought process is left as an exercise for the reader.
MrZentuga 3 weeks ago
I love this video, but please, can you take pauses for breathing in-between your words? Please!
salexo9 3 weeks ago
What's your opinion on cross-dressing? (i. e. guy in a bridal dress on his wedding day.) Disgusting, repulsive, perverted, sexually deviant, weird, gay, funny, or just plain wrong?
LadyLolitaJenny 3 weeks ago
Dey r natural, lol
raymondoe1997 1 month ago
You said that we can not possibly tell the difference between traits that are natural gendered and traits that are from cultural conditioning...true, but this does not mean that they don't exist; they most certainly do. Just like we know there is both good and evil, we can not separate the two, which is why ethics is so fascinating. I would like to see a movt. of men & women who are not trapped in the modern 1 dimension opinion of GR & recognize the natural and necessary uses of gender roles
ladyEulaelie 1 month ago
I couldn't have said it better. I've subscribed
5chocolatedragon 1 month ago
Sisters? (Male sisters included) haha
vickygretch 1 month ago
@Rachulie brilliant comment, I couldn't agree more, gender SHOULD be irrelevant these days. It is not just in your place, where I live in the UK it is the same :@:@:@
Phobosdeimos1 1 month ago
u r a retard at its best forms. I gotta a brother for u hanging between my legs
Sam10947 1 month ago
feminism is the path to degenracy and social demise...FUCK FEMINISM.
Sam10947 1 month ago
The only gender role I don't have a problem with is that men are expected to be chivalrous. I really don't understand why that's sexist.
TheAdmiralPancake 1 month ago
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sure gender roles might not all be bad. but when they surround u 24/7, and u dont belong to that gender in ur head, it's a big deal. i live in the bible belt. im pretty sure im gender queer but could just be that im just me, n i dont take my personality from gender roles. hell, every1 down here constantly focuses on gender. 'oh no, that's a boy's shirt' 'that's a girl's job' &just making random comments ALL THE TIME about my gender.. is it only down here or the rest of the usa?
Rachulie 1 month ago
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Rachulie 1 month ago
you are amazing! subscribed!
plushalligator 1 month ago
just subscribed :)
asimmervideo 2 months ago
I'm all for free thinking but i honestly dont believe human survival would continue much longer if everyone abandoned gender roles.. i think they are natural
earth2brandon 2 months ago
Most of the people that really complain about gender roles are gay people. Why? Because dey want everyone to open up to their way of life n hate da fact men have to be a certain way and women gotta b a certain way. To be honest some gender roles r wrong I can agree on that, but a man has to b a man n a women has to be a women otherwise their will be no balance
iSwifty33 2 months ago
this is why i lost respect for americans. i used to look up to american family values. But now with decadence and moral degeneracy, u can count on the liberals and their followers and supporters to ruin everything guarranteed
Sam10947 2 months ago
Let's abolish all cultural roles. Nobody take orders from anybody. Everybody do exactly what they want.
The first to protest would be the feminists, who expect the men to build everything and deliver the shipments of food, shelter, clothing, as well as keep the electricity on.
Gender roles are suddenly convenient when it involves MEN doing all the hardest and most necessary infrastructure jobs. God knows feminists won't build or deliver anything.
TruthandJustice101 2 months ago
@TruthandJustice101 Hahaha! This is excellent satire :)
o0Theresa0o 4 weeks ago
@TruthandJustice101
Well, if you believe that to be true, shouldn't you WANT gender roles to be abolished, thus forcing all these 'lazy feminists' you refer to to step up to the plate? Unless of course you believe that women are incapable of stepping up to the plate once the cultural conditioning is gone.
...What's the term for that kind of belief? Oh right, a gender role.
IcyGallus 3 weeks ago
Amen Sister.
cag126 3 months ago
I am currently doing an essay on how gender roles have evolved in our society and to a lesser extent on how they vary based on region. Though most of your rant (for lack of a better word) is based on your personal opinion, I found it very helpful in givng me a few ideas and thought I would thank you!
DeathToMayo 4 months ago
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I need help... Please give me advice
You see, I was born in 1993, but I look like I'm born in 1996. Everywhere I go, I'm treated as an 18 year old, but deep down inside I feel like a 15 year old. I am discriminated everywhere I go. I am not allowed to play for my U-17 soccer team even though everyone is bigger than me!
In the USA, people can change their sex when they feel like they were born the wrong gender. Well I feel like I was born 3 years too early! I am depressed and am very sad...
SamuelJoaodaSuica 4 months ago
@Sortsitar Lol girls playing PC games go against female guidelines? Lol games aren't specifically for boys you know, alot of women play them.
jayc342009 5 months ago
Fabulous video! As a female who defies some, but not all of the stereotypical female gender roles, I think the gender roles discussion is one we seriously need to engage in. One thing that I definitely notice is that women are now freer than men to defy the female gender roles.
plutorip 7 months ago
@plutorip yeah that is pretty sad. If a girl wants to a skirt, its fine, if she wants to wear pants its normal, but if a boy wants to wear pants it's fine, if he wants to wear a skirt he's mocked, teased, and often turned away and told to change, especially by parents and schools.
Same for makeup. (tho girls like me are mocked for hating it)
It's really sad. I personally hate skirts and makeup and think they look ugly on anyone, but if anyone wants to wear them it's their choice...
XXBleedingrose 2 months ago
thanks for discussing this, i am male and can attest that because i do not enjoy everything that a male is "supposed" to enjoy i am often put under societal pressures to change what i seem to naturally enjoy which i find to be very annoying
ilikescarecrows 8 months ago
If one believes this strongly on gender roles it really implies the probability of determinism which contradicts free will. Your implying that we don't think the way we do on our own rather our thoughts are molded by societies influence. We are nothing more than what gravity is to a rock and our choice is an illusion.
More importantly be like the guy in the matrix at times and enjoy the steak even though you know its fake. Can't take life to seriously and just enjoy our meaningless existences.
cavmanier 9 months ago
You can still see genetic difference averages. Men tend to be taller than women. This doesnt mean some women are taller than men. Men tend to want to date a shorter woman. You might say this is socially constructed and if it isn't something that is in our genes preference it's impossible to determine based on societies pressure. If men wanted taller women our species would have evolved that way in the first place though. Therefore its possible to see though stereotypes ie gender roles.
cavmanier 9 months ago
But the example with the boy and pink alone seems to deal with many different cultural points. Sounds simple but can turn out to be complex.
One thing may intertwines with so many other factors. Brings to mind topics like habitus, social distinction and Bourdieu, or power relations and Foucault. Interesting video though. Now I feel like researching this. Foucault also writes about sexuality and gender, I think.... But I'm no expert, only a student.
AnonaNicole 9 months ago
Gender roles in language is particularly interesting.... it upsets me sometimes the choice of personal pronouns available for women in Japanese. Darn it, I like the sound of "ore" but I'm not a man and so I'll sound like a fool. I guess I will stick with boring ol' "watashi". What other choice is there without sounding girly?
I like studying Japanese though... some languages have even more of this gendered speech, and age differentiations.
AnonaNicole 9 months ago
you talk really fast.
klfkenshin 10 months ago
i remember when i was younger, there was this boy in our class, he was 'cool' and one day he walked in with a pink shirt on. the next day, like 7 other guys wore pink, and if you asked him why he wore that pink shirt (He still wears it sometimes) he would either say, Because pink is cool, Pink is better then blue, Pink is awesome or pink is just a colour. i totally agreed with him, and i totally agree with you.
firegirl2202 11 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
One thing; Get in the kitchen.
BlindSnipingPro 11 months ago
the idea of gender roles are socially constructed concepts that aim to repress and control the mass in order to create a society that functions...in a capitalist system...wait...wat am i talking bout...im gonna shut up now...
elvali0205 1 year ago
Men and women are two very different members of the same species. We have different tasks to accomplish, and therefore we think and act differently. Those differences are necessary, and complimentary. When we try to change or deny those differences, we try to change and deny ourselves. My personal bottom line though is that if my daughter wants to play with dolls, I don't want her to feel like that's wrong. And if she wants to play with cars, I don't want her to feel like that's wrong either.
russianseamonster 1 year ago
I agree that there is a level of cultural conditioning, but I believe that it's more helping to develop talents than to force children into specific paths. I think it is biological. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of different human cultures past and present on this earth, many of which have developed in near isolation from other communities. I don't know exact percentages, but I would be comfortable betting that in at least 95 percent of those cultures women were the primary caretakers.
russianseamonster 1 year ago
woman possibly focus her efforts on raising children if she's worried about how to put food on the table, where the rent money is coming from, whether there's going to be water tomorrow? Men have a vital role too. I think our society as a whole would really benefit from a shift back to traditional mom at home, dad working gender roles, IF and I say most emphatically IF the opportunity to learn and grow and create and thrive is still made available to both sexes.
russianseamonster 1 year ago
@russianseamonster While I completely agree with the importance of raising children in a nurturing environment (having a parent around and such), when you say women are better suited for taking care of children I disagree. Little girls get their baby dolls to play with and take care of, they pay house, so on and so forth. It's part of society's gender roles too, not something biological.
azziechan 1 year ago
their interests. Then they should take that, and use it in the very best career, the very noblest passion. To help a child become. And while you're raising children, YES take ballet, YES learn to fix the car, YES take socio-economics. But don't get so caught up in that that you lose sight of what's important. And after the children have been successfully launched, YES have a career. But take time for that vital gender role. And men have a role also, to support women in that endeavor. How can a
russianseamonster 1 year ago
themself, without someone to protect their right to grow as an individual, their right to learn, their right to choose who they are, that potential is significantly stunted. They are so busy battling to BE that they have little time to thrive. Well educated mothers, who are constantly seeking knowledge and to be a better mother, are essential to society. Women should go to college. They should understand how the world works, all sides of it. They should have opinions and be vital, and pursue
russianseamonster 1 year ago
Women tend to be, (I'm not saying all women are, but the gender as a whole tends to be) better suited to taking care of children. The differences in the way our brains work, the differences in the way we relate, make us more suited to it. Even our bodies are built for it better. And children are our most precious asset as a race. They are our future. A child may have the potential to be something great. But without a mentor to foster that potential, without a cheerleader to help them believe in
russianseamonster 1 year ago
I was raised in a home where I wasn't "confined" to "gender roles". I happily helped my Dad fix his car or fixed the toilet with my Mom, and then baked cookies with Dad and learned how to crochet from Mom. I think in matters of access to knowledge, both genders should be allowed to grow and explore. However, some gender roles are vital. I find it extremely disturbing that so many women are working. While Mom and Dad are both off pursuing a career, children suffer.
russianseamonster 1 year ago
Lady, you opposed gender roles and yet I see you with long hair and characterized female clothing--and you say you don't want to be part of it? Seems to me you are configured as well to be socially accepted, or rather, socially expected.
ThoughtGazeCarlos 1 year ago
my fav color is blue, and sure i will give my son a vibrator :P
izzykells 1 year ago
I completely agree with the ridiculousness of gender roles. I remember writing a research report in middle school on women in aviation and (forgive me if this isn't correct to the tee - it's been nearly six years!) I remember reading about when women were first allowed to fly planes. There was this one rule saying they had to keep a certain amount of "femininity" about the cabin - you know, makeup, hair brushes, that sort of thing. Really?? Anyway, great video!! Love you guys!!
iDaydream00 1 year ago
PPS Until 100 years ago it was pink for boys 'naturally' anticipating the manly red of blood and fire and danger, blue for girls like the gentle relaxing sky and cornflowers. See how many old pictures have males swaggering in rose, females reclining in pastel blue. Think of 'Alice in Wonderland'
Saiaton 1 year ago
PS The moment a man says you're cute and intelligent, so attractive feminists will seize on that as 'patronising' because it is 'feminine'. Equality allows women to call men cute and intelligent, therefore attractive too, without telling the women that they should be ashamed to be glorifying his ego. Feminist gender distinction: Man attracted to woman, he sees her as a 'sex object' he wants to 'use' to suit himself; woman attracted to man, she is 'submitting' for him to use as his 'sex object'
Saiaton 1 year ago
It is still much more acceptable for female to adopt male roles than vice-versa. This confirms superiority of male roles, keeps men from liberation from them and eliminates them from women. Male roles are consumer-producer dependent on commerce, female more personal traditionally more creative of food & clothing not taking orders from a boss. Independence rivals Commerce - why buy what you can make for yourself cheaper? 'Equality' now means 'male colonialism' eliminating feminine from both sexes
Saiaton 1 year ago
I totally agree. its not fair that even young, innocent boys who just so happen to think that pink is a cool color would get teased and harrased for such a simple, mindless thing.
yourstrulyoctapus 1 year ago 13
@yourstrulyoctapus Yes, and have you seen the recent hullabaloo over the little boy who decided to dress up as Daphne from Scooby Doo? (Search "nerdy apple bottom" to find it.)
sistersalad 1 year ago 6
@sistersalad a more recent example I found on disney channel while watching my younger twin brother/sister. I can't remember what show it was, but these girls wanted this guys help in dancing. He didn't want to help, but they blackmailed him by threatening to show him at like 10 in his Halloween costume, as princess Leia which convinced him to help her to avoid the embarrassment.
XXBleedingrose 2 months ago
win. again, this is an atriculate and accurate analysis of the topic. great video. thanks!
semigrenzy 1 year ago
But still, in books, they use only brothers and men, what about that? I don't find that fair... keep the sister salad name! I love the ring to it! Please keep it! The only reason you probably chose it is because it has a nice ring to it... sibling salad is yuck, like a nasty flavor... or brother salad, even more gross SISTER SALAD!!! ALL THE WAY!!!!!
Annaluvsdasims2and3 1 year ago
To objection 2
If having a society is a natural part of being human (not saying you said that, but most people would agree that it is) , then annything generated from our society is also "natural". Therfore cultural gender roles ARE in fact "natural".
Because of this, your second argument is invallid. Of course this means that if we ever manage to elliminate the differences of gender roles in our society that will be the "natural" development , and trying to get there is also a "natural" part.
92ESPN 1 year ago
I totally agree with you, gender roles have been bothering me for some time, despite me being male. Fuck... some social conventions are sooo dumb.
Awesome video.
00L1nk00 1 year ago
You are awsome!!!:)
HateIsForFools 1 year ago
YES. YES. YES.
As far as this feminist is concerned, you nailed it. Then again, my feminism makes me biased.
swagar 1 year ago
I love you!
You talk about these subjects so nicely and refreshingly, it's so great for your opinions to be addressed like this, lightly and pleasantly but still very serious about what you believe in.
I 100% agree with everything you said here, and I hope lots more people watch your videos! :)
EllieandEleanor 1 year ago
i don't have a problem with men being referred to as sisters- to me it suggests family and therefore unity or something shared. anyway, how often do people use the greeting "hi guys" to a group that includes females? that doesn't seem to cause much concern, it's just a friendly greeting. great video.x
holsinmysocks 1 year ago
Thank you for posting this, it made me feel a bit more hopeful and less alone with my values! :)
SwimingPolarbear 1 year ago
how the hell can men be called "sisters"????????/ are you crazy?
GoldeWC 1 year ago
i was at the event at the beginning of the video.
we were sitting in front of the storm trooper.
my mom and sister are in the background at one point...
also, i pretty much agree with most of what you said.
rainbowbubblesXD 1 year ago
i fucking love explosions
soj22 1 year ago 3
i love how you can nerd out and i still love it because i barely secretly want to nerd out on camera about history too :) you're clearly in residence? schoolin'/ coolin'
soj22 1 year ago
I agree with you! This topic was actually covered yesterday with a group of my friends, and I wish I'd seen this earlier so I could reference it. You did an excellent job of expressing your opinion (opi-onion? does that work?) and I'm proud to be a subscriber!
ProjectSugarCube 1 year ago
I agree that gender roles are important. however, the problem of most feminists is, that they are all academics and cannot talk with normal people. Maybe it is better in English speaking countries, but in Germany/Austria, the feminists still speak about "heteronormativity, gender roles" and nobody knows what they want. I also hate when some demand that boys/men change into girls/women (gender) or blame all for not speaking as they want.
AustrianAtheist 1 year ago
Hi sistersalad and saladites. I'm so glad you did this video Liz! It's something I think everyone needs to hear more. Another important 'debunk' of the 'it's in our genes' myth, is simply the fact that lots of people have varied sex chromosome differences. Some people never even know because the effects of this varience aren't major and chromosome tests are rare. But some people do and I think the existence of trans and intersex people is important to mention in your argument. Good job though!
deadlybuzz 1 year ago
You are amazing!! I'm a total feminist, but you bring up topics I hadn't even thought about! I really enjoy your videos, and I'm definitely showing them to a friend of mine who....doesn't think men and women are all equal. Please keep posting videos, they're great!!
strawberrychan141 1 year ago 4
@strawberrychan141 Thanks!
sistersalad 1 year ago
@strawberrychan141
Your friend is right! In America men are less likely to be as well educated or have as many civil rights or as much chances at a higher paying job if you look at median rather than mean averages in most states.
Plus there is some evidence that women are more likely to be involved in violence resulting in the deaths of children but will serve only a fraction of the time a man would serve.
Kinda scary how things reverse isn't it?
laughingsoftly 1 year ago
So basically you're against conformity of widely accepted and assumed classifications which promote utter ignorance of the very nature of existence? I love you, marry me?
Kultivater 1 year ago
it looks like the youtube enforcement person doesn't want to hear about gender roles
pete275 1 year ago
Pink was originally the male colour....
sorry, just had to throw that out there....
beafboy01 1 year ago
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PLEASE DONT READ THIS. YOU WILL GET KISSED ON THE NEAREST POSSIBLE FRIDAY BY THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE. TOMORROW WILL BE THE BEST DAY OF YOUR LIFE. HOWEVER IF YOU DONT POST THIS COMMENT something bad will happen. NOW UV STARTED READIN DIS DUNT STOP THIS IS SO SCARY. SEND THIS TO 5 VIDEOS IN 143 MINUTES WHEN UR DONE PRESS F6 AND UR CRUSHES NAME WILL APPEAR ON THE SCREEN IN BIG LETTERS. THIS IS SO SCARY CAUSE IT ACTUALLY WORKS THIS ACTUALLY WORKS
FireworksattheDunes 1 year ago
I'm a girl who hates shopping.
That doesn't make me feel less like a girl. I just don't like looking for clothes.
snaliger 1 year ago
This is the first vid i have watch, nd i think ur good but i disagree in a sense..
I have delved into this topic condiserably as it is on my psychology course of which my exam is in 7 days.
I think there are difference between male and female, and this should be encouraged so we can better ourselves as a whole. How ever i agree with ur point on the Qs that while women and men may have different strengths there is no stopping a particallar man betting better at a 'womans' thing or a visa versa.
laelius3 1 year ago
@laelius3 For a psychology student, you certainly lack in the world grammer.
Kultivater 1 year ago
@Kultivater As a psychology student around this period i have lots of exams and was typing that in a somewhat state of rush. I also suffer from dyslexias, there are serveral words i cut down to meet word count. I hope you can look the meaning and no forucs on these miniour discrepancies.
laelius3 1 year ago
wow, that was a refreshingly intelligent (and accurate) articulation of the subject. To tell the truth, I was 'cleaning up' old subscriptions I thought were now irrelevant to this time in my life, and came across your quirky pic, clicked on it, and got 'the chills' watching this vid. I'm a 29yr old married male long a fan of female equality (I was one of 5 males in a 'Women in Society' class of 150 students). I love to see such compassionate intelligence in our world. THANK YOU!
Joyfreek
joyfreek 1 year ago 7
@joyfreek Thanks for this comment. It means a lot to me. I'm very glad you enjoyed the video. Compassionate intelligence for the win!
sistersalad 1 year ago
ve watched this video about xxxxxyyyyyyy times, and I still love it!!
I,m blue, not pink
DerWahreErloeser 1 year ago
I've watched this video about xxxxxyyyyyyy times, and I still love it!!
I,m blue, not pink
DerWahreErloeser 1 year ago
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This is brilliant! I enjoy your videos and thoughts so much! They are so insightful, yet they are not dull or boring. :) I agree that gender roles are something that are engrained into us throughout life, and so it is seemingly impossible to tell if they are truly a part of us. I think it is time for people to be more accepting, for what does is matter if a boy likes pink or a girl wants to be a dirt bike rider?
lyrical1026 1 year ago
This is brilliant! I enjoy your videos and thoughts so much! They are so insightful, yet they are not dull or boring. :) I agree that gender roles are something that are engrained into us throughout life, and so it is seemingly impossible to tell if they are truly a part of us. I think it is time for people to be more accepting, for what does is matter if a boy likes pink or a girl wants to be a dirt bike rider?
lyrical1026 1 year ago
Sister, you are really good....(male comment, no jive), Every time I watch sister salad, I have to think, a long time...Thanks for that!
Oh wait...:-=)
Stay sisters, and please give invisis my love, straight outa germany
DerWahreErloeser 1 year ago 2
@DerWahreErloeser :-) Thanks, will do!
sistersalad 1 year ago
well, 'sister salad' comes from something your mama said when she saw all of you together. and i still think you're right to address your actual sisters, alexandra and invisisis. but that's just me. so i'd stick with the sister thing just because it's about whom you intend to address. it's not a comment on gender or gender roles and constructions.
dissolving 1 year ago
Gender roles are a product of a "safe" and "settled" civilization. If we were all fighting to find food from day to day...gender role wouldn't matter worth a damn...only who has something for the pot at dinner time. (This was particularly true of the frontier experience of early America.) So...if an apocalypse happens in 2021 for example...this will all be a mute point.
ktblue2bass 1 year ago
Great topic!
njolee 1 year ago
I read your channel's profile, so I understood the greeting. I just think it's great that you're sharing with us! I think gender roles developed based on our physicality in ways that made particular aspects of family life easier for us in the past; when more aspects of life, specifically work, tended to involve heavier physical labor compared to now. It was a simple, practical way to divide labor back then.
njolee 1 year ago
@njolee However throughout time gender-based perceptions and expectations spilled out from aspects of life, where they were practical, relevant or reasonable, to contexts where they were not. These mishaps prompt questions like: Why are inanimate objects designated gender in some languages? Why couldn't women in the US vote less than 100 yrs ago? Why (in the year 2010) are women blamed for earthquakes in Iran? (I have theories on each that I won't digress into.)
njolee 1 year ago
@njolee Modern technologies have removed the need for human power from most task of our daily lives. So these days we don't have the kind of justification to "genderize" physical labor/task division, let alone all things that should not have been genderized in the first place.
njolee 1 year ago
I read your channel's profile, so I understood the greeting. I just think it's great that you're sharing with us! I think gender roles developed based on our physicality in ways that made particular aspects of family life easier for us in the past; when more aspects of life, specifically work, tended to involve heavier physical labor compared to now. It was a simple, practical way to divide labor back then.
jayleeds2006 1 year ago
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jayleeds2006 1 year ago
Women tend to be considered the weaker gender all around the world. I feel that women have a much stronger role in our society than in most of the world. Though I don't always agree with the way gender roles influence the way we think I realize that we have it better here than in most of the world.
AnntaColby 1 year ago
Also, women tend to have a maternal instinct, this is just natural. There are women who truly love to take care of their family . Also, men tend to want to take care of their women and family. Then, we could always take a look at other cultures...
AnntaColby 1 year ago
@AnntaColby Why would this "maternal instinct" be "natural"? I haven't met any "natural" (and therefore non-socialised) "women" lately ... or ever ... ^^
rlnd18 1 year ago
There are good and bad to gender roles. I get worked up when I'm told I can't do the same things as men but there are some things I really can't do that men can. Our bodies are different, men tend to be stronger and women more "delicate". Now this is not always the case but generally speaking men are stronger physically. I don't think it's right to treat someone differently because they are a "girly" man or "she-man". The truth is everyone's bodies are different.
AnntaColby 1 year ago
@AnntaColby Then why distinguish between male and female instead of physically strong and physically "weak"? (Or, better even, not only distinguish between two possibilities but all variations?)
rlnd18 1 year ago
I'd also like to point out that one problem with gender roles is that they don't take into account those with disabilities or other obstacles that make it hard for them to do certain tasks you would expect a guy or a girl to do. Some guys can't be strong construction workers or military men, some girls can't be nurses (for lack of better example) or whatever inspires them because of these obstacles
jwhartman14 1 year ago
I like your comments and appreciate them. I for one always have different interest than what is associated with my gender. People don't understand it but I continue proudly. In such instance that I have always made friends with girls easier than with guys. Its just the way it is, and I never feel like it has ever taken away from my "masculinity" or however you want to put.
jwhartman14 1 year ago
Why would people get butt hurt about you addressing your sisters at the beginning of your videos? /facepalm.
Gender roles are everywhere no doubt but I don't think they're going anywhere anytime soon. Now there are lots of people who do things that 'cross' those lines but it's still looked upon as a bad thing genereally, especially if it's a guy doing 'girl' stuff. Should things change? Sure, but it's going to be a loooooooooong time before we could hope that it does : /
Deovindice2001 1 year ago
you seem pretty smart. You must read all the time.
braneden 1 year ago
First off, I was super excited that I am IN THIS VIDEO. Anyway, I think gender equity is still yet to be achieved. For example, in Pennsylvania women with the same experience and education as their male counterparts are paid only three-fourths of what men are paid in the same jobs. Studies have also shown that women are much less likely to negotiate salary raises than men. Two good books on women negotiating and gender roles: "Women Don't Ask" and "Ask For It", both cowritten by Linda Babcock
chavayln18 1 year ago
1. I can't believe I haven't watched this video yet.
2. Remind me not to watch this video when I'm tired. Will have to watch again tomorrow so I can properly comment
phampants 1 year ago
Clearly, there's something innate about "male-ness". I would argue that gender roles are more of a time saving device that we use to describe things as being inherently male or female, not neccessarily a prescription for how you're supposed to act.
andharvey8 1 year ago
From a psych class that I took in college:
An experimenter took groups of young males and females and forced the males to play with dolls and the females to play with trucks (among other things). Turns out they rejected the roles that were imposed on them.
The males started using the Barbie dolls as baseball bats. The girls started having "truck tea parties".
andharvey8 1 year ago
@andharvey8 And to Culwin just below too, about 2nd graders segregating themselves based on gender. All you are proving is that they have learned gender as a construction by then. Children are extremely quick on picking up language, culture, and social expectations. We dress boy and girl children differently from birth, give them different toys, talk to them in different ways, comfort them differently. A child has no choice. They learn to think based on the models presented to them.
StephenByerly 1 year ago
@StephenByerly, You would have a point there, but the kids they were using in the experiment were pre-K level. They didn't have a whole lot of time to acquire "social conditioning".
andharvey8 1 year ago
@andharvey8 You assume that social and linguistic learning for a little kid is a matter of years of time. They are being socially conditioned from the time they're popped out, starting with a gendered name, certain-colored walls, ways parents include him/her in their activities, ways people talk to him/her, TV shows they're pointed towards, books they're read, toys they're given, and bathrooms they're carried into. There's ample opportunity to be socially conditioned even in a year of experience
StephenByerly 1 year ago
I agree with you completely!
dragonskydivine 1 year ago
Perhaps you could use your cultural anthropological insight to discern another widespread condition that frequently results in one being mercilessly teased and disparaged to the extent that such an individual feels compelled to hide or disown this condition? The image I keep getting is of someone attempting to roll sideways up a grass-covered hill. For me this is the elephant in the living room that seriously dampens my enthusiasm for this discussion of gender roles.
saladuncle 1 year ago
I'm not going to lie. This is my favorite video of yours. I rant about gender roles in society all the time, and it drives me nuts that people subscribe to the belief that these things we associate with each gender ate inherently male or female.
zengrenouille 1 year ago
I am a man, I enjoy pink, dolls, explosions, gun fights, fight club, tea parties, and girly deoderant. I feel left out due to the fact I meet the qualifications of both gender roles. I will write sternly worded letter to you superviser about leaving my people out.
JohnMoore90 1 year ago
I should've said this in my last two huge comments:
I am proud to be a sister!
~ Jethro.
IJethrobot 1 year ago
Quality quantitative questions of an uneQuivocal quandary! Enjoyed the discussion. - from one of the male "sisters"
Samm5884 1 year ago
Well Said!!
ThisClaimer 1 year ago
BTW i just wanted to say i really appreciate that you take the time to comment on everyone's status! it brightened my day that my favorite video bloggers took the time to actually read my comment! and of course i'm promoting the video... i'm telling everyone
jpely89 1 year ago
@jpely89 My pleasure! I love when these videos actually spark a good discussion! Thanks so much for telling people about the video, too--that means a lot to me.
sistersalad 1 year ago
@strati5 I couldn't access the link (probably a failure of mine to translate the code necessary for comment posting). Could you send it via message, or email to sistersalad at gmail?
sistersalad 1 year ago
Wow, this video was totally unexpected yet I'm quite glad you brought it up. Since this channel was initially developed as a method of contact between two sisters, I never really assumed it was to refer to your 'audience'... In fact it's kind of funny to hear you get hate mail on this topic. I mean, the phrase "hey guys" is almost a universal greeting, and yet when are women given the right to complain? This video really made me see how 'male' is equated with 'the default' and women, the other.
sunmarsh 1 year ago
@sunmarsh Well, it was never anything approaching hate mail, but you make a very interesting point about the "default" perception of the male gender enshrined in certain societal conventions.
sistersalad 1 year ago
Wonderful, thank you!!! Given the nature of my grad studies, I could open up the whole big can o worms and note the results of generations and generations who have insisted on attrributing the culturally constructed gender roles onto the deity, and then using circular logic to argue that said deity is therefore male and that all non-males are therefore inferior...
revmccance 1 year ago
@revmccance Ooh, yes, that's a very fascinating addition to the discussion...
sistersalad 1 year ago
I am a Girl!
I hate shopping
I love horror movies
I only get manicures when it's a REALLY special occasion (weddings and other)
I purposefully made my favorite color blue when i eight to retaliate against gender roles.
...Lizz I have one thing to say to you:
Right on Sister!
PaperbackWriter9 1 year ago
@PaperbackWriter9 Right on 8-year-old you!!!
sistersalad 1 year ago
bahaha I'm a male sister
Andrewethest 1 year ago
EXAMPLE! i am usually a pretty free spirit and yesterday was BEAUTIFUL so, I decided i was going to put a flower behind my ear and walk around barefoot. Lets just say I was called a particular name which is not a nice term for gay people only because my actions where 'feminine' in nature.
jpely89 1 year ago
@jpely89 Thanks for sharing your example. I'm sorry to hear you encountered such closed-minded people in the midst of what sounds like a very lovely way to spend a nice day. Did you pass along a link to this video? :-)
sistersalad 1 year ago
i'm also fascinated with the whole issue of gender identity, heck my 2nd book of poetry deals so with the issues of defining myself as "girl." there are definitely cultural norms but it is hard to ignore certain physical attributes that make the sexes "different" at least in physicality but should the possible functions of our bodies define ultimately who we are and what we do? i'm asking more questions than i am answering but just a fascinating topic :) - jessie
charlottepoet 1 year ago
@charlottepoet You are asking precisely THE questions. We should all ask ourselves these questions a bit more often, I think...
sistersalad 1 year ago
I'll totally be your male sister! I used to be ashamed of using the term sister or girl when speaking to other guys.
Why is it that women are supposed to relate to men, but men aren't expected to relate to women?
If you've ever heard of the Nostalgia Chick, she actually addresses this issue smartly in a review she has entitled "The Smurfette Principle" referencing past cartoons and TV shows that may have had an effect on this. If you're interested in watching it, I can send you the link! :)
indigothecat 1 year ago
@indigothecat Ah, yes, the Smurfette Principle! Very interesting. I've noticed this phenomenon most strongly when it comes to literature. Girls are much more willing to read books with male main characters (e.g. Harry Potter) than boys are to read books with female main characters (hard to think of an example since, due to this principle, female-main-character books rarely get as popular, and I refuse to compare Harry Potter to Twilight)...
sistersalad 1 year ago
I always feel so smart after I watch these videos:)
Laners09 1 year ago
/agree
dstoooooops 1 year ago
agreed :)
pudding21lover 1 year ago
I agree completely with this video.
Swenglish 1 year ago
and no. i do not disagee with you, because i am a modern and intelligent women like you. except. my english isnt as good as yours ;) *
yea! men and women are diffrent..... ha* i never knew before.. lol
looksi 1 year ago
i ask myself the same question soooo maybe times!
looksi 1 year ago
So very interesting and intelligent. On a British program called QI (if you don't know it, I'm sure you'd love it) they said that... something like... little over a hundred years ago, pink was the colour for baby boy, blue for a girl. Just goes to show how arbitrary many gender signifiers are.
touchdownturnaround7 1 year ago
@touchdownturnaround7 Yes, I tried to find a solid reference substantiating this claim, which is all over the internet, but I couldn't...
Just browsed the wikipedia page for QI. Looks fascinating!
sistersalad 1 year ago
All that said, I agree that since values are assigned in any human culture, it would be optimal to remove the gender roles wholesale. I'm sure you'd agree as to the enormous challenge that represents, though.
atemporaryhero 1 year ago
@atemporaryhero I am all for multi-post responses! Thanks for yours. I agree with your conclusion that the main problem is the assignation of values to roles, though I'd like to quibble with your quibble regarding the physical ability gap: (1) Most modern gender roles are not based on such a gap. (2) I wonder how much of physical differences come from ancient labor division and how much from selective breeding on the basis of expectations about physicality (think Victorian England).
sistersalad 1 year ago
Take the age-old hunter/gatherer vs. nurturer divide. Taken on average, I think it's hard to argue the physiological gap between men and women that makes men better suited to chase down the mastodon, , while women stay back at the yurt, tending to the offspring, gathering food from the local flora etc.
I think the real break-point comes when /values/ are assigned to the roles, rather than just the roles themselves, and the variance in assigned value is what leads to social inequality.
atemporaryhero 1 year ago
Great video. I agree nearly completely. That said, I have a minor quibble with point 2. (Note: I'm having a devil of a time fitting my commentary into 500 characters, so I'll beg you to bear with a double post, and some copious trimming of thoughts).
I tend to think that there is a logical basis for some gender roles based on physical abilities, despite the capability overlap in some cases (though, in others, I think the overlap may actually be negligible at best-- for example, childbearing?)
atemporaryhero 1 year ago
So, to conclude my previous comment I do not think we need to eradicate gender roles. I think we as a society need to accept the fact that gender roles are generalizations, and that like all generalizations they are not going to be true for everyone. So teach your son that it's not ok to make fun of other boys if they like pink and teach your daughters not to pick on other girls if they don't like barbie. That is what we should be working towards. Acceptance.
TehBoomBoomTeh 1 year ago
So, to conclude on my previous comment I do not think we need to work towards eradicating gender roles. I think we need to increase understanding and acceptance of the fact that gender roles are not set facts or rules. They generalizations, and just like all generalizations they are not 100% of all people.
TehBoomBoomTeh 1 year ago
I agree that gender roles can have negative effects, but i disagree that they must be eradicated. The majority of gender roles were not created for some arbitrary reason. They were born from apparent patterns. The truth is the majority of women like to smell like those flowery deodorants and also like the pretty pink package. I don't think that gender roles are in themselves a bad thing. The real problem here is societies inability to accept those people who do not conform to gender roles.
TehBoomBoomTeh 1 year ago
@TehBoomBoomTeh But how do you know that the fact that the majority of women like flowery smells and pink packages (provided that is in fact true) is non-arbitrary, or at least not arbitrarily culturally induced?
(I do agree that the real problem is a lack of acceptance of those who fail to conform to gender roles, and I am all about teaching our kids not to pick on others who don't meet their expectations.)
sistersalad 1 year ago
Great video, Lizz, very interesting stuff! I agree with you too, that we can't just assume things about people based on gender roles, nor should we lock people into boxes based on what's "girl" and what's "boy." The Q example was pretty interesting, too.
Also, I think this marks my second appearance on this channel. And I was in Monica's video this week too. I feel so included!
obsessivejez 1 year ago
100% Agreed!
RockieRaccoon13 1 year ago
This is so left field but I'm transgendered. Female to Male. That's really confusing. I look masculine but act so fem. So I said screw it and I go with Androgeous. I apologize for all the spelling mistakes. Hope you found this interesting
divinitynmotion 1 year ago
I think gender roles are not necesarily a negative thing. They have existed for thousands of years and must at have positive influences on culture, if not other cultures with no gender roles would probably have won out
lifemerelife 1 year ago
@lifemerelife (1) How do you know they have existed for thousands of years? (2) Are you concluding that war, murder, and slavery are also not necessarily negative? Because those have also, presumably, existed for thousands of years.
Just because things are not evolutionarily harmful doesn't mean they're evolutionarily beneficial. And the fact that a trait has allowed a culture to survive only makes it a positive thing if your main concern is survival rather than, say, justice, love, etc.
sistersalad 1 year ago
Im wondering what positivies occure because of gender roles. I would think there are some if not a lot of them.
lifemerelife 1 year ago
@lifemerelife I'm sure there are too, but they may not outweigh the negative effects well enough to make them worthwhile. Can you give any examples?
sistersalad 1 year ago
i love you sistersalad!
thebluebus 1 year ago