BFD2, Alesis Trigger IO, RET E-Drums - VPT Walkthrough 2

[SchadowScythe]

Thanks for this!

I've been trying to figure out how to set up my kit with TriggerIO >.< and while I'm not a complete moron, I know -very- little about digital music creation (Save for FL Studio).

[joshtree14]

so you dont need a drum module? all your sounds are from a program? all you need is a set of e drums, firebox and an alesis i/o

[semiLivedj]

now that you spent all that money,you need to learn to play,the best way to learn is on an accoustic kit.But I think you skipped that lesson.Why the hell would you spend this much money for a beginner?But I know that v drums make people think their better than what they really are.Let me know when your ready to sell.

[ytsephill]

0 LATENCYYYYYYYYY

[naal92]

What is the Presounus FireBox for?

[AjaxpuffNstuff]

points2 shop (dot) com/? ref = ajaxpuffnstuff if you want to get the triggers for free thats how i got them

[littleims10]

As a fellow Firebox owner, I'd just like to say that the firebox DOES have latency, although its its very small.

[xx11x11xx]

Mikey HELP! I cant trigger any sounds with my "drum rocker" ION kit its plugged into the usb and th laptop recognizes the device but not sounds.... what do I do?? I just installed SD2.0 and Metal foundry.... THANKS

[xx11x11xx]

Mikey HELP, I just installed SD 2.0 and METAL foundry. I can only get sounds to trigger using my mouse. I have a "drum rocker" ion kit plugged into the usb port, my laptop recognizes it but the pads wont trigger any sounds.... Thanks for any help..

[eidossisrra]

What about the drum base? does it come with one?

[fresongeert]

What's the price of all the gear you have on this video?

[MikeyVPT]

You can get a full RET Percussion Stealth Pro kit for $2,495 USD, and you can get everything you need to trigger software for $159 USD. Software can cost from $199+. MUCH less than any other comparable kit and module!

-mikey

PS - Best prices at VirtualPercussionOutlet(.com)

[scrapyardroks]

i was wondering if you can buy single drums from RET i would like to get a whole kit but i dont have the money but i would really like to us and ret drum as a snare and does the alesis i/o have drum kits on it already

[123iuwegoiubuo]

while watching this i feel like your talking to the audience like were complete morons.

[MikeyVPT]

Really? I don't even Assume that people that are into Virtual Percussion are morons. I do assume that if you're watching, you're looking for real information. If I've offended you, I apologize, 'cause that's not my intent!

-mikey

[123iuwegoiubuo]

its just how you come across in the video and how you repeat yourself so often. yes, i understood "zero latency" but you say it at least 20 times in this video alone.

[USAboy22]

Dang, how close are your neighbors? That is NOT loud.

[MikeyVPT]

THUMBS UP!

-mikey

[chaosgod13]

The point is to create really quiet e-drums, or there is no point of buing e-drums instead of acoustic. 60db down are good but not enough. From what i can see from the vid i can t play them on midday or at night because they re still loud enough to annoy the neighbours. There s always a proportion between feeling and loudness. They look cool though.

[MikeyVPT]

Riiiiiight... I play my kit at all hours of the night, with pretty close neighbors. I don't even think they know I have a studio in my home!

I guess you'd have to play them to really get it.

They do look cool, and feel great, and trigger very well, and make it easy for me to record tracks in minutes!

-mikey

[jjpl2001email]

Hi, thanks for the guide about edrums and software, realy helpfull, so, my question, actualy i am building an e drum from the scratch, all the electronic and stand, so, i have a little of crosstalk betwin pads, what can u tell me about the ret crosstalk? do you have to modify some parameter on the alesis?

[jjpl2001email]

if you want, you can see my channel and my DIY edrum. Thanks

[jennafan14]

hey mikey! i have ezdrummer and i'm gettin latency and i have asio 4 all and all that, just wondering what is the cheapest way to get the latency down!

[9961430]

Does The Stealth kit come with the cymbols like you have in this video?

[MikeyVPT]

YES! It comes with the kit!

Check out VirtualPercussionOutlet(.com)

Best prices there.

-mikey

[mecrop12]

i want to triger my acoustic drumset with some dDrum triggers and i was wondering if i use the alesis trigger io and some sort of software on my computer if i can also plug it into an amp so i can hear what i am playing or do you have to use headphones? also what software would you recommend thats not really expensive? i play metal so i use double bass and such so i would need a program that would give me that type of sound. and with these programs can you record a track to the computer easily?

[MikeyVPT]

You can use the DDrum triggers for acoustics, and the Trigger Io... I would recommend either Addictive Drums or EZdrummer (EZdrummer has lots of cool expansions!). Both can be opened up INSIDE of any recording program easily and they trigger and sound great.

Check out prices at VirtualPercussionOutlet(.com)

Thanks!

-mikey

[BobSince1981]

Hey MVPT, love your vids and your passion for VPT. I'm using ASIO4ALL right now and it seems to work fine. I've just been making midi files in Tabit, but I have a Yamaha DD-55 with MIDI capability.

Would the Presonus Firebox allow me to hook my Yamaha DD-55 to it as a MIDI trigger?

I play to get an RET set someday if I can afford it.

[MikeyVPT]

Yes! You can use the Firebox to trigger the software!

You can get it at a great price at VirtualPercussionOutlet(.com)

-mikey

[cmporro1]

a few things.

it must have some latency. you mean no audible latency right? maybe less then 4 milliseconds.

and any chance you could stick a $20 radioshack db meter on that thing? i can hear the...what do they call the auto compression on cheap recorders.. kick in. i think the dynamics of the recording aren't true.

i'm new to e-drums. are you guys part of this movement to just trigger software?

not trying to give you a hard time. i'm asking because i like what you guys are doing.

thanks

[MikeyVPT]

You're right... there's about 2ms of latency, which is playable.

Once you get into the software, you'll know that there is built in compression effects to use with the drums and cymbals. What you see is what you get. I don't edit these drums for the videos... I have a life ;-)

Are we part of the movement?! With the software companies, we ARE the movement!

Thanks for watching!

-mikey

[cmporro1]

i just meant for the volume demo put a SPL meter on them. that way we could see more objectively how loud they are...60 decibels. you can get them real cheap at radio shack. they have a hold function to get eh highest peak. then you wouldn't have to answer all the loudness questions.

[MikeyVPT]

Surely. I would take a hand-crafted RET with an Evans head over any mesh, for sure.

[cast390]

Mikey, Why were my comments about the drum heads being much louder then the meshheads and the RET  snare triggering problems Im having been REMOVED???

[MikeyVPT]

I figured it was a lot of back and forth about trouble shooting, which we went over in messages. No need to clutter the comments section with our convo, ya know?!

Otherwise, these things would be filled with hundreds of different threads! I'd go insane.

-mikey

[cast390]

Mikey,

For this kit (stealth) does the trigger for the snare drum head completely cover the underside of the head.(inside the shell)Unlike the 13" pro snare(which I have) only covers about 3/4 of the circumference of the head on the inside of the shell

[MikeyVPT]

Good question! The 10" RET drums have trigger plates that cover a slightly higher ratio than the 13" counter-parts. I will say that I like the 10's better because I can roll on the edge and it's still fairly quiet. Also, I think they respond better as toms. I upgraded to a 13" Fusion Pro Snare, like yours.

You've got to post some pics or vids, bro!

-mikey

[naruto04210]

the drums are alot quieter than a practice pad

[MikeyVPT]

Yes, they are quiet. Nowhere near an acoustic drum, but still a drum.

-mikey

[ArisMetal]

You have external hard drive beacause you wanted a fast hard drive?? the hard drive is connected with USB 2 ??

[MikeyVPT]

I use the external hard drive to hold all of the sounds for BFD2.  Yes, I use the USB2.0!

-mikey

[naruto04210]

what is latency

[MikeyVPT]

Latency - the difference in time between stick attack, and sample playback.

There is always a latency between when you hit an RET drum and when you hear the drum sound.

You can find more info at VirtualPercussionOutlet(.com)

-mikey

[naruto04210]

thank cause most people dont respond to questions

[MikeyVPT]

I just try to help!

[doublestrokeroll]

Ooops never mind mikey...I figured it out...I had the firebox setting on the wrong thing in the i/o settings....I had it on like 1/2 wen it should have been on the ASIO...Now its just great...like you said zero latency.....I can't perceive a thing. thanks again for the videos.

[MikeyVPT]

Hahaha... I didn't see this until now. I'm glad you've got it working!

-mikey

[doublestrokeroll]

Hey Mikey...thanks for the great videos...How are you getting the zero latency out of the firebox with BFD2? I have it to along with a quad core computer with 4gigs of ram and a td9...and i end up getting some "cutting off" of notes along with what seems like latency at higher speeds...ends up sounding fake..at slower speeds the program articulates fine with an almost unnoticeable latency...Do you use the ASIO4ALL with the firebox?

[MikeyVPT]

Sorry for not getting back sooner!

BFD2 is a big program, but I have the Firebox configured to my computer well enough to take care of it. I also use the velocity curve in BFD2 to make it more playable.

I would use ASIO4ALL if I didn't use the Firebox. You can use one or the other for an audio driver.

-mikey

[Dougie085]

You definitely push that firebox to much :) I have an M-Audio Firewire 410 and it's excellent and 0 LATENCY! Generally ASIO4ALL will take care of any latency issues even with USB 2.0. Also if all you have are firewire 400 ports generally you should stick to USB 2.0. Firewire 400 actually has more latency then USB 2.0 Firewire 800 is awesome though :)

[Dougie085]

Oh forgot the Firewire 410 also has more inputs and outputs then the Firebox. I just want people to know there are plenty of other options out there.

[MikeyVPT]

Yep, that's not a bad option. I've used M-Audio gear before, and yes, it's good stuff.

I use PreSonus gear, and the FireBox has been nothing but amazing! When I get my ProTools rig, I'll be adding some M-Audio stuff, too.

-mikey

[Crabs308]

What was the cost of your whole E-Drum setup do you think

[MikeyVPT]

Hmm... it's hard to tell because I got a lot of software, an extra cymbal, extra hardware etc.

If you're looking for good prices, go to:

VirtualPercussionOutlet (.) com

We've got the best prices there...

-mikey

[DigitalAnimaniac]

The zero latency your getting is because of the firewire conection not anything exclusive to the FIREBOX right? ... so any brand of firwire interface say the MAUDIO brand would acheive the same benefit , right?

[DigitalAnimaniac]

Disreguard last ..missed where you responded already.

[roeljaja]

'Zero latency, I will repeat that:

Zero latency, that's unheard of in the edrum-world.'

Are you getting paid by Presonus? - cause (near)zero latency audio interfaces are very standard. The firebox is an awesome machine but not the only usable thing out there...

[MikeyVPT]

Jajaja... I wish! I don't think the guys at PreSonus know I exist, yet!

It's just an awesome all-around piece to have. I mean, not only is take care of my audio latency, but it has 6 outputs which is perfect for me for playing live/recording.

I know what I like, and I know what you mean. It's just that I struggled with latency for a long time and that was the only piece that solved all my problems... I'm in love!

-mikey

PS - Thanks for getting the quote right ;-)

[roeljaja]

Ok I understand. One question: is the hihat placed in a conventional hihatstand or are you using an foot controller?

Thanks for all your vids!

[MikeyVPT]

I'm using a hi-hat arm. I don't think I would mind using the conventional hi-hat stand, but I really like the idea of keeping my hi-hat in the same position... I think it helps keep the samples and playability the same.

RET does sell the conventional hi-hat controller/stand. It works really well.

Thank you for your comments. Do you use VPT, or do you play drums?

-mikey

[roeljaja]

I do play acoustic drums, and I've thought about getting a Roland but they just don't feel right. I would love to buy an RET set but I've just spent all my money on a beautiful Fender Stratocaster. Next year I'm going to university so I won't have a lot of money in the next couple of years. Maybe one day I'll be able to get a Fusion pro-cx imported from Germany or something... I live in the Netherlands.

[jennafan14]

hey mikey just wondering, i have ezdrummer and asio 4 all, and a laptop 2gb ram, 160 gb hardrive and i'm getting latency i dont wanna spend 300 200 dollars on a box, i'd like to get that around a 100 dollars if possible or cheaper, please help me

[jjpl2001email]

i know, find a Sound blaster and de kx project driver, it works with very very low lattency

[flopsiik]

HAHA OPFAS!!!

[MikeyVPT]

Umm... ???!!!

-mikey

[Mahavishnu80]

Hey Mikey i think you recommended a site for reducing latency somewhere but i cant find it. Could you tell me please. thanks.

[MikeyVPT]

The site will be VirtualPercussionOutlet (.) com

It'll be up January 1st, 2009!

Are you thinking about ASIO4ALL? That's a free one.

-mikey

[chrian31410]

about zero latency? umm would you get latency runnning to an amplifier? sry im a nub

[MikeyVPT]

Thanks for the question!

You wouldn't notice any extra latecy if you went out to an amp. You WOULD hear whatever amount of latency you had easier when you do that.

As long as you have very low latency, you'd be fine!

-mikey

[ActiveX101]

Just wanted to make a quick comment about the Firebox. It is not a zero latency device. There is no such thing as a zero latency device. You are going into a computer so there will always be processing time. Go into your Firebox driver control panel. Latency will range from 1.5ms to 24ms on the Firebox, and can easily be seen in the latency dropdown. Zero latency would be nice, but until they can teleport a signal faster than the speed of light with no processing time, it's not going to happen.

[MikeyVPT]

I know what you're saying about the firebox not being "zero" latency... But...

There's a large discussion as to what Zero Latency is. Is it absolute zero? Is it zero perceived latency?

To my ear, the firebox has zero perceived latency which equates to zero latency. If you can't hear it, is it there?

I think I've got my whole setup down to less than half a millisecond... thanks to the firebox.

I appreciate this comment. You're paying attention!

Thanks ActiveX101.

-mikey

[GabbeGubben]

can i have one elctric drum kit one bass and one guitar playing and recording at the same time with firebox?

[MikeyVPT]

You sure can! 6 inputs! It's awesome :-)

-mikey

[theminside]

ok sir i will when i get it if i cant get that sweet 0 latency . thank you for the quick reply

[theminside]

hey mikey you really know your stuff . i got the fire box comein in a few days. i got sonar. cubase. roland td 9. and dual 6400 pc with 3 gigs of ram will i be able to get ZERO LATENCY SIR??????? and can u give me tips on how to config the set up for that sweet zero latency.. please get back to me.

[MikeyVPT]

Thanks, sir!

I can talk you through using it for sure! It is REALLY easy to upload the drivers (you'll get the disc with it, too). Just let me know which questions you have!

Have you subscribed yet?!

-mikey

[nightmarekid74]

Mikey,

Are your toms just normal tom drums with triggers, or are they dampened? If they are dampened, how loud is it without dampening? Also, do the snares buzz on a snare drum with a trigger unless they are turned off? Thanks, Xander

[VirtuaDrummer]

Those are all electronic! No acoustic drums in Mikey's setup. All Virtual Percussion Technology.

Check his other videos for more info :-)

[MikeyVPT]

Joni,

The PreSonus FireBox has ZERO LATENCY! It's true. The overall VPT system has probably about .25ms which is unnoticeable to even MY picky playing style.

I also use Addictive Drums!

CURRENT FAVORITE VPT SYSTEMS: Addictive Drums, BFD2, SD2.0

RET Percussion really are the leaders in VPT.

I hope you use an RET kit if you're using software!

It's nice to hear from people who know about VPT!

-mikey

[Joni0001984]

I doubt zero latency. I have a Lynx L22 PCI card and I can get 0.5 ms, but maybe not with the heavy BFD2 with huge samples. Even on my 4 GB Corsair RAM, Intel Q9300 processor, P45 Asus motharboard. The risk is getting a squeking noise and almost blow your speakers. But 1.5 ms is really okay. Swedish Addictive Drums must be the fastest I have tried. Superior Drums has an ugly feel to the toms, kick and snare, think EZ Drummer, but wonderful cymbals - better than BFD2. But VSTi is the way to go!

[jeffillinois]

Question.. If I wanted to add additional cymbals (dual zone w/choke) can I run two alesis I/O's? Would that effect latency? I asked on another video about the choke, but it appears obvious that you are using an Alesis Trigger I/o and have choking ability, so I think that has answered my question about choking. :-) Moving away from acoustic drums has really kept me busy with research... :-( Thanks again for any help you can provide...

[MikeyVPT]

Jeff,

Choking is definitely possible. Where did you hear that it wasn't?!

Using TWO IO's wouldn't increase latency at all. It would just be more fun :-) Using VPT systems has really opened the door for more drummers to have the best options/sounds/playability. But, it's a new instrument.

Are you dropping that cash on an RET Percussion kit? Having played them for almost 2 years, I can honestly say that I will never play another kit again.

Let me know if you have any more questions!

-mikey

[jeffillinois]

I have to e-mail them and get some pricing. From what I've watched in the video's they look like they're great. Just not sure how much it's going to cost me. Looking for the following : Snare, Hat, Bass, 4 toms, 5 cymbals (1 splash, 1 ride, 3 crash), pedals, cables, rack and software. Would like to keep in the $4-5k range.  Really don't need an external hard drive. Already have a dedicated system available for this with two 500GB drives. Do I need firebox? (I don't record midi, etc...)

[MikeyVPT]

Wow... yeah, I'd probably go with an RET kit for sure. They can do anything you want.

If you're gonna play live, or just for practice, I'd definitely go with a firebox. It's very impressive! Cuts out any latency.

It seems like you're ready for a VPT system for sure with a dedicated rig like that! Go for it!

-mikey

[kheo80]

Hi Mikey!

I'm a proud owner of a RET edrumkit, but i generally use it with a td-12 module. Ok, i think i've got the best electronic ride cymbal, the Roland CY-15R, which has got 3 zones. (As your smartrigger, i think)

I'd like to buy BFD2 and there are few things i'd like to ask u. Does BFD2 support the positional sensing? And does it support the 3zones on a ride? I already know how it behaves with hi-hats and i think it's just amazing... Pls reply!

[MikeyVPT]

kheo80,

Awesome to meet you! RET kits are amazing, aren't they?!

BFD2 is a great program. As far as I know, it does support positional sensing for the snare, at least.

You're from Italy?! Awesome! Whick RET kit do you have?

-mikey

[MikeyVPT]

RET sells internationally! They sell directly to overseas clients everyday. They are no more expensive than other kits on the market... well, less expensive if you compare to an $1,800 module.. yuck! Just get a VPT package for $1,000 LESS!!! HAHAHA... Anyway, they the best deal overall than anything I've found. For the quality, Nothing else comes close. Does that help?

-mikey

[spoonjacks]

Really!!!! it's only $800?!?

[MikeyVPT]

Ha... yes, depending on which VPT package you want.

I love paying less for better quality... don't you?!

-mikey

[spoonjacks]

yeah man^-^

how much are the drums?

[Fagottron]

Hey Mikey,

How would go about purchasing an RET kit in Perth? Are they expensive?

[MikeyVPT]

Thanks again, brother!

The drums go into the Trigger I/O, then USB into my computer. Separately, my FirBox is connected via Firewire into my computer.

The FireBox is selected as my audio driver. It has ZERO LATENCY built into it!

Using the computers on-board audio card is like using a certain car engine... the FireBox is a much more Powerful Engine!

Make sense?

Honestly, I didn't think there would be 4!!! But, there's a lot of info here. I can't to get to #4! It'll have the sounds!

-m

[RTorrente]

Ok cool now i undastand...I have got a digi 002 which acts as a sound external sound card for protools will that be great? i know it prob might not have not have ZERO latency!!.....but im sure is better than onboard.

[jvernon1235]

Nice videos of the technology. I'll definitely be looking at getting one of these setups in the near future. I only have one problem with your info though...

There's no way it's ZERO latency. It's the nature of the beast and a near impossibility. Zero perceived latency maybe, but not zero.

Please note that I'm not trying be a pessimist with regards to this setup, quite the contrary, it's indeed awesome! I just want to make sure that the correct information is out there.

-JV

[MikeyVPT]

Thanks Mr. jvernon!

I'll give you credit. The overall system has Zero Perceived latency, however the FireBox has ZERO latency!!!

I definitely mention that the FireBox has Zero latency built into it. The overall setup might have about .5ms latency which is imperceivable at most :-)

Thanks for the comment, though. I'm with you. I want the facts, and nothing but!

-mikey

[RTorrente]

Hi Mikey...nice man,

jst one question, Does the trigger i/o from the drums go into the firebox USB/firewire or does it connect straight to computer USB?

How does the zero latency come about if i/o goes straight to PC?

rig's

by the way so glad u making 4 series...cant wait