I commend all the great tribute videos now on YouTube to the brave men of RAF Bomber Command. The American USAAF also played a major role in the bomber offensive against Germany. Let's remember that the RAF and USAAF did more than any other Western allied services to bring the European war to an early and successful conclusion. They saved millions of lives by helping end the tyranny of Hitler's German Reich earlier than would otherwise have been possible without the bombing offensive.
@drskzzz - starving populations of liberated but shattered Europe & were involved in the Berlin Airlift, not to mention helping to rebuild the German economy by transferring goods and much needed materials all around Germany (as shown in my dad's Flying Log Books - RAF 1937-46, BEA 1946-64). Good luck and let's keep an eye of the politicians.
@drskzzz - some interesting comments. Dresden was chosen by Churchill, not by Harris, to "appease" the Soviets.By Feb '45 the fighting was about post war politics.The memorial is to honour the sacrifice of these young men (the intellectual cream of their generation), not to glorify war.They did the best they could with the technology of the times-harder to bomb Germany from England than vice versa.V1& 2 could cause great damage with no injury to crews.Later the same RAF crews brought relief to
@Insperato62 I suspect Dresden was also intended to demonstrate British & American hitting power to Uncle Joe to discourage any thoughts he might have about pushing further west. The destructive power of the RAF & USAAF was awesome by the latter stages of WW2.
I think the problem is, the german people are still coming to terms with the fact that they slaughtered up to 20 million people....so the easy target is the British who fought against them
Please Mister Gibb. Build these memorial. Do not care about our crybaby mayor. Do not care about this ugly city. Do not care about those fucking germans. Everything they want is to forget Auschwitz, but never Dresden. I see it every day.
Erik from Dresden
PS: I also see europe's biggest neo-nazi deployment every year, in Dresden.
The world does NOT need such a memorial -especially not 65 years after the end of war.
What irritates us Germans the most is the fact, that Robin Gibb does not feel ashamed enough to give a concert in DRESDEN.
How audacious to think that we would take part in financing such a monument !
Let him build this monument in the gardens of his whore-palace - and let him build one of himself right next to it -so that the world will remember in 400 years time who had such a crazy idea.
The RAF Bomber Command Memorial will finally pay a public debt of gratitude to the 55,573 aircrew who lost their lives in World War II defending us against the oppression of the Nazis. All volunteers, they took to the skies knowing the odds they faced, but did so anyway. So please visit bombercommand,com/timecapsule and upload your personal message to the Time Capsule or simply make a donation.
bomber command has its memorial, its the statue of Sir!!!Arthur Harris He is the human symbol for the deeds bomber command is responsible for. Incendiaries and cluster bombs are constructed and mend to be used against soft targets, like houses and humans. The honor is not with the decision, the honor is with the men risking their lives to defeat the evil Nazi regime by the "honored" and "holy" Harris.
So Harris stands for bravery and gallantry Sir Arthur Harris, would the Queen honor a coward?
Sorry grazyarnie: thumbed you down wrongly! Britain is schizophrenic about it's relationship with 'cousin Germany' and although it has centuries of skeletons to hide, it never 'did that' i.e. con-camps on own soil - we did nasty stuff on islands far away, or islands not so far in Ireland's case! We have a great Sprichwort: 'never shit on your doorstep'. What most Brits choose to ignore is that millions of German invalids, Gays,communists and objectors as well German Jews died in those camps.
no problem, I dont have hard feelings against the british nation, actually I like them, the british folks. I even do honor the bomber crews cause they dropped not only bombs they also dropped food and "sugar" during the Berlin blockade. Morgenthau was refused by the US american people and Marshall was used for the Germans as well, as the rest of Europe. Germans finally found their place in the world with the help of the people, not politicians, of the US and UK
@grazyarnie To raise much needed funds for this memorial the RAF Bomber Command Time Capsule allows you to leave your personal tribute to those who gave everything for us: bombercommand,com/timecapsule
@BomberCommand100 okay again for You to retype to hammer it into the heads of ignorance...the idiots, I dont call You that. were believing Harris´s lies, they even believed that Churchill wasnt envolved as a responsible in the sinking of the Lusitinia....was planned by Churchill, cause later he said:" the germans brought us the most victorious deed we were aiming for.....
So the political world wanted war against the germans...and the germans emperor was an idiot...as history shows
Your statement isnt reflecting to truth. Your name should bound You on truth.but You just use it to spread lies and faulty propaganda speeches against the ethnic germans...You dont attack the bogus enemies You are after, You believe in idiotic thoughts like the holy praised command in1945
Brits aren't told whole what really happened in school or the media- we have to READ modern more objective books to find out. Most of my life I believed Dresden = Tit for Tat for Coventrry i.e. Dresden no worse off! I visited both cities often. But, Dresden was raised to ground: schools, hospitals, zoo, churches and 2 cathedrals - fire recumbusted for DAYS AFTER. Thousands of bodies were buried in mass graves for hygiene reasons. NO CITY in England suffered like this, including Coventry..
No memorial to SS. That is obvious. Consequently, no memorial to the RAF bomber command which implemented similar genocidal agenda as the SS. Like the bullets of the SS were directed at Slavic women and children, the phosphor and gasoline jelly were directed at German, French, Italian and Austrian women and children.
No memorial for the RAF Bomber Command. The Nuremberg alone defines the character of atrocity clearly enough and that applies to the winners too.
@hwschildt Utter drivel. There is NO comparison whatsoever between the activities of the SS Einsatzgruppen, who embarked on a campaign to DELIBERATELY annihilate Jews, Gypsies, the mentally & physically impaired, & the activity of the RAF Bomber Command. The whole purpose of the strategic bomber campaign was primarily intended to destroy/disrupt German war production. It was NOT a campaign aimed at ANNIHILATING every single German man, woman & child. EMotive bullshit from HWS as per your SOP.
Thank you for posting this. A very poignant and fitting tribute. The very right to argue this point was made by the sacrifice these young men made to keep our country free, they stood up and were counted, would the youth of today do the same in those circumstances? Per Ardva
Take your basic work in a libary and ask were finland was in ww2 they joined the nazi's and they turned on them just to get slapped by the soviets by taking a city and here you are on a USA website talking to a U.K person about something you never even seen before about bombing ..heres a little slap to you .i have been in a flying lacaster I know why a 4,000lbs cookie and insend, bombs were used the cookie was droped first to blow roofs off and windows the insend were to burn the rest
The lack of education, intellect and humanity speaks through you. You see the deliberate roasing of civilians justified, just like what happened in Japan and Vietnam too.
Besides, you are a young lad with some heroic insights on the ww2. You never been in a flying Lancaster (the coffin for pilots with no escape when such a thing woiuld crashland and explode).
"Take your basic work in a libary and ask were finland was in ww2 they joined the nazi's and they turned on them just to get slapped by the soviets..."
The Finns did not join the Nazis (Did you mean germany?), they were invaded by the Red Army of the mass murder Stalin, your beloved "Uncle Joe" and were left in the lurch be all Western Allies, so they had to defend themselves against a overwhelming number of communists- and prevailed!
And on YT there are no USA websites, dude! If you can`t stand freedom of speech, stay away!
@robinhood48 You don't know your history. Go and research SS Viking Division. It was formed entirely from Finnish VOLUNTEERS. The Finns played a significant part in the fighting on the Ost Front and Viking was classed as an elite division.
Thank you for your interesting contribution to this discussion. No need for me to resarch, I know the history of the Waffen- SS. They were an international legion and the best army ever. Not only Finns joined this elite army but also French, Belgians, Netherlands, Swedes and even Muslims from Balkan.
Until 1944 the Waffen SS consisted of volunteers only, after 1944 the German parts of the SS drafted conscripts.
@hwschildt "I don't have time. But some even basic work in (a) library wold prove- AND EASILY- all your points total(ly) bogus." Really? Bring it on then Bullshitschildt. Stop fudging, bullshitting & evading. You need to read more. Try "Bomber Boys," Patrick Bishop. Try "Bomber Command," Max Hastings. Try "Bonber Offensive," By Sir Arthur Harris.
My failure? Oh I feel devastated, but dizzy before the splendour of your intellect, Mr. Liverpoolscottish. How persuasive you are when you preach the gospel of carpet bombing!!!! Awesome!
"The RAF bombing was very inaccurate & sporadic. Incidentally, who bombed Guernica?"
Yes, they bombed Guernica and that was wrong. But what did the RAF in Iraq and India in the 1920s? Why so selective, Mr. Liverpoolscottish? I know why because I already know you, so don't bother answering.
Perhaps you would like to discuss how primative both bombs & bombing itself was during the 1920's? The average bomb weighed no more than 20 lb & was usually released over the side of the fuselage, or dropped off a wing pylon. Accuracy & therefore effectiveness was abysmal. There is no comparision between the early 20's & the mid-late 30's. By the mid 30's, they were building DEDICATED bombers, as opposed to throwing bombs over the side of bi-lanes. You make inapproriate comparisons ALL the time.
How odd. You have continued to send me replies, but when you are put on the ropes by an argument you cannot defeat, you resort to your inner child & decide you do not wish to discuss matters. How selective, how childish! Answer the question & stop evading your defeat.......Anybody who reads the point I raised & your failure to answer appreciates who has the upper hand and it ain't you!
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"Fritz Thyssen resigned from the Council of State after November 9th 1938 Kristallnacht, was arrested in 1940, and spent the remainder of war in a sanatorium and in concentration camps."
I know that. But it does not undo the fact that behind Hitler's rise were two German bankers who were closely collaborating with Bank of England which had earlier sanctioned the merciless monetary politics of the Weimar Republic.
"Talking of burning women & children, perhaps you would like to debate the Holocaust of the Jews?"
There are nice photos of Fuehrer posing with Averell Harriman and Prescott Bush ('Boy George's grandpa') from the NY-Based bank Union Banking Corp. which was a NY Affiliate of the Bank of England.
"... According to documents seen by the Guardian, after UBC was set up it transferred $2m to BBH accounts and between 1924 and 1940 the assets of UBC hovered around $3m, dropping to $1m only on a few occasions."
The Union Banking Corporation (UBC) was a banking corporation in the US whose assets were seized by the United States government during World War II under the Trading with the Enemy Act and Executive Order No. 9095. According to an Oct. 5, 1942, report from the USA's federal Office of Alien Property Custodian, Union Banking was owned by Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaardt N.V., a Dutch bank.
The memo from August 18, 1941 states "My investigation produced no evidence as to the ownership of this Dutch bank."[1] The Dutch bank was alleged to be affiliated with United Steel Works,[relevant? discuss] a German company. Fritz Thyssen and his brother, Heinrich Thyssen-Bornemisza, had the Dutch bank and the steel firm as part of their business and financial empire according to the US. government agency.
"The Union Banking Corporation (UBC) was a banking corporation in the US whose assets were seized by the United States government during World War II under the Trading with the Enemy Act and Executive Order No. 9095."
And the damage already done. So now one could concentrate on hiding the vestiges.
Ben Aris in Berlin and Duncan Campbell in Washington The Guardian, Saturday 25 September 2004 23.59 BST Article history:
"By the late 1930s, Brown Brothers Harriman, which claimed to be the world's largest private investment bank, and UBC had bought and shipped millions of dollars of gold, fuel, steel, coal and US treasury bonds to Germany, both feeding and financing Hitler's build-up to war.
Between 1931 and 1933 UBC bought more than $8m worth of gold, of which $3m was shipped abroad. ..."
I think that is "Brown Brothers Harriman", i.e., Harriman & Bush. Not sure. But it is certain that Averell Harriman and Prescott Bush were both promotors of "Racial Hygieny" and eugenics, and that Hitler knew them personally. Thus BBH would be UBC, i.e., Union Banking Corporation.
It is an interesting theory. But it would have been utter madness for the BoE to sponsor a "contained" war in Europe - especially after 14-18. There may have been elements throughout the world, in the USA, Britain and Europe, that subscribed to the policies Nazi Germany. However, this evidence doesn't mean that the origins of world war two can be laid at the door of either the British People, Britain as a nation or the British Government.
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"However, this evidence doesn't mean that the origins of world war two can be laid at the door of either the British People, Britain as a nation or the British Government."
Of course the ownership and other legal issues can be camouflaged effectively. And I am aware that the Dutch bank had a central role in funding Germany. One thing is, however, certain. The gigantic funding of Hitler could not possibly have happened with the Swiss loans or by looting the occupied territories alone.
This is but one part of the picture. The central agent in this was Bank of England and its head Montagu Norman. Harriman and Bush were his NY affiliates.
Well Britain's interest was always a weak European continent. I suspect that since most of the wealth of this planet was Anglo-U.S. based in the 19th and 20th century, the world wars were the effort of draining Europe's wealth and population.
Britain succeeded in this - Austria and Turkey were chopped to pieces easily and the natural resources caught in the Middle East. As to Germany, the British establishment was obsessed in its destruction fearing that Germany and Russia would join.
I thought it was France, not Britain, who pushed for the punitive settlement of Versaille. The changes in Austria and Turkey etc. after world war one came about through the collapse of the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires.
Exactly. WW1 virtually bankrupted Britain. Our economy was a mess for years afterwards. The last thing as a nation we either needed, or wanted was yet another war. We slashed defence budgets & ran our armed forces down massively. In the 30's, politicians closed their ears to the voice in the wilderness who warned of potential resurgent German mlitary power & aggression, namely, Churchill. Hws & his pathetic conspiracy theory falls flat on it's face. There was NO desire for war in Britain.
Do bankers represent GOVERNMENT & therefore political will? No they do not. Britain's economy was in turmoil post WW1. Defence spending was SLASHED in the 20's & 30's. If we wanted war, where was the huge increase in defence spending in the early 30's? There simply wasn't any. British politicians only woke up in 1936 & began to spend money on the forces EG The RAF- Hurricanes & Spitfires began to appear. Your theory has such huge holes in it a FINNISH SS Div could drive through it unnoticed.
You will not find ANY concrete evidence to support the conspiracy theory nonsense that certain indivduals on YT appear to cling too. At best they are misguided buffoons, at worst they possess a hidden and very sinister agenda-ie Pro-Nazi apologists. There is one on here who posts such drivel at a prodigious rate, all over WW2 video's dedicated to the British. I have concluded the most effective way to deal with them is to totally ignore them, not engage, and just give them the thumbs down. :)
Hjalmar Schacht was affiliated with Montagyn Norman's Bank of England which implemeted the looting policy of reparations during the Weimar Republic & c. Then, J.P.Morgan and UBC are British NY affiliates.
These problems have been dealt with both Anthony Sutton and Guido Giacomo Preparata who ARE respected historians.
I note with considerable interest, that you have completely evaded the question I posed to you. Namely, if according to your conspiracy theory bullshit, Britain purposely engineered WW2, why was our defence budget so pitiful in the early-mid 1930's? So the British political elite actively encouraged the banks to lend Hitler money for armaments, yet they failed to spend an adequate amount on the British defence budget?! They must have really wanted to fight another war with Germany then......NOT.
You young folks have missed the point.. The best that the RAF could do was hit large area targets at night. The Barnes Wallis bombs were never plentifull. By the way, the innocent women worked in the armament factories, Defence of the Reich AA units, fighter control and the children were in the Hitler Jugend. The real innocents went to the camps. If you don't believe me ask the Pope. He Manned a big FLAK gun as a innocent child,
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I respect the pilots who served their country, wholeheartedly.
But my post which is harsh, reflects the sinister implications behind the campaign, and the harsh fact that most of the bombs were unleashed against civilians.
I don't harbour any sympathy towards the Nazi government of Germany and I condemn racism.
To me a Lancaster is like a black swastika on a white circular field and red background.
My tribute to the victims of Guernica, Varszaw, Coventry, Hamburg, Dresden and Hiroshima.
I removed the post because it was too disrespecting towards the pilots.
But I point out that there are people everywhere who abhor the campaign of the RAF Bomber Command during the WW2 and who can't ever accept it as valiant or even necessary,
A valid point hwschildt and would appear the reason that the British government never truly recognised the flight crews. I made this video but have a similar respect of the crews of German U-boats. While I condemn the politics, one cannot understand what both had to endure, serving their respective countries. I may be criticised for saying that but why have double-standards?
A very good point, and the comparison of the RAF bomber crew to the German U-boat crew is very relevant. They sank many civilian ships, even ships who were full of immigrants heading to the U.S.
Perhaps you would like to comment on the Luftwaffe bombing campaign in Britain? Was that necessary? Was that valiant or necessary? Are we worse simplt because we hit back harder?! lol Next time we have to face an evil, totalitarian regime that engages in industrial scale mass murder, invades & occupies it's European neighbours and aims to dominate the world, what do you suggest? Perhaps we should fight back with a feather duster? Or hit them on the head with a bunch of flowers? IDIOT.
I have already condemned the Luftwaffe campaign against Britain in numerous posts of mine. Actually it was Churchill who PROVOKED Luftwaffe to bomb Britain. Berlin and the Ruhr area were bombed several times before Coventry and the Blitz. This is the truth.
Yes indeed it is, and the bombing was completely ineffective at that stage of the war. The RAF bombing was very inaccurate & sporadic. Incidentally, who bombed Guernica? Who bombed Warsaw & Rotterdam? Was that in Churchills orders too? The reason behind the bombing of Berlin in 1940 is patently obvious- it was to draw the Luftwaffe away from bombing the RAF fighter airfields in 11 Group which were taking a pounding. A very clever strategy under the circumstances-clever Winston!
Hwsschildt- You are full if it! You infest WW2 videos dedicated to the British all over YT. I have read your thinly disguised anti-British drivel on numerous sites on YT. Perhaps ou should pick up a history book & remind yourself who actually started the whole bloody episode referred to as WW2. Big clue for you- IT WAS NOT THE BRITISH.
Perhaps you should go and research what the German Luftwaffe did to Coventry. After Coventry, the gloves came off and we gave it back to you lot in spades. How dare you criticise the British in such a way. Talking of burning women & children, perhaps you would like to debate the Holocaust of the Jews? You are a hipocrit & you make me want to vomit!
Figures are irrelevant. The Germans embarked on the bombing of civilians with great gusto in WW2. Unfortunately, they picked on a nation that learned to hit back far harder than they ever could with a strategic bomber force, as opposed to a tactical airforce ie Luftwaffe. The ONLY issue that matters is this- WHO STARTED AN AGGRESSIVE WAR OF CONQUEST & OCCUPATION IN 1939? Big clue- it was NOT Britain. Your point is null & void. You are like a stylus stuck on a record-whinging on over & over. BORE
The greatest crime of all is to start a war. Who started WW2? Who flattened Poland? Bomber Harris? Who terrorised the Dutch into surrendering by threatening to lay waste to Rotterdam, then did so anyway, even after a surrender had been arranged? Bomber Harris? Who invaded Belgium & France & put a knife to the throat of Britain? Bomber Harris? Obviously NOT. The Nazis brought down the sword of Damocles on their own heads through their pursuit of an aggressive war of conquest. They are culpable.
Ca. 600 dead in Coventry, very bad indeed and already criminal, but 45000 dead in Hamburg by the operation with a conceited name 'Gomorrah' - a true war crime.
I commend all the great tribute videos now on YouTube to the brave men of RAF Bomber Command. The American USAAF also played a major role in the bomber offensive against Germany. Let's remember that the RAF and USAAF did more than any other Western allied services to bring the European war to an early and successful conclusion. They saved millions of lives by helping end the tyranny of Hitler's German Reich earlier than would otherwise have been possible without the bombing offensive.
RedGoblinus 11 months ago
@drskzzz - starving populations of liberated but shattered Europe & were involved in the Berlin Airlift, not to mention helping to rebuild the German economy by transferring goods and much needed materials all around Germany (as shown in my dad's Flying Log Books - RAF 1937-46, BEA 1946-64). Good luck and let's keep an eye of the politicians.
Insperato62 1 year ago
@drskzzz - some interesting comments. Dresden was chosen by Churchill, not by Harris, to "appease" the Soviets.By Feb '45 the fighting was about post war politics.The memorial is to honour the sacrifice of these young men (the intellectual cream of their generation), not to glorify war.They did the best they could with the technology of the times-harder to bomb Germany from England than vice versa.V1& 2 could cause great damage with no injury to crews.Later the same RAF crews brought relief to
Insperato62 1 year ago
@Insperato62 I suspect Dresden was also intended to demonstrate British & American hitting power to Uncle Joe to discourage any thoughts he might have about pushing further west. The destructive power of the RAF & USAAF was awesome by the latter stages of WW2.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 month ago in playlist Liked videos
I think the problem is, the german people are still coming to terms with the fact that they slaughtered up to 20 million people....so the easy target is the British who fought against them
jagdpanther1944 1 year ago
Please Mister Gibb. Build these memorial. Do not care about our crybaby mayor. Do not care about this ugly city. Do not care about those fucking germans. Everything they want is to forget Auschwitz, but never Dresden. I see it every day.
Erik from Dresden
PS: I also see europe's biggest neo-nazi deployment every year, in Dresden.
drskzzzZ 1 year ago
The world does NOT need such a memorial -especially not 65 years after the end of war.
What irritates us Germans the most is the fact, that Robin Gibb does not feel ashamed enough to give a concert in DRESDEN.
How audacious to think that we would take part in financing such a monument !
Let him build this monument in the gardens of his whore-palace - and let him build one of himself right next to it -so that the world will remember in 400 years time who had such a crazy idea.
Malindi65 1 year ago
The RAF Bomber Command Memorial will finally pay a public debt of gratitude to the 55,573 aircrew who lost their lives in World War II defending us against the oppression of the Nazis. All volunteers, they took to the skies knowing the odds they faced, but did so anyway. So please visit bombercommand,com/timecapsule and upload your personal message to the Time Capsule or simply make a donation.
BomberCommand100 1 year ago
I have the greatest respect for the aircrews of Bomber Command.
DrTWG 1 year ago
bomber command has its memorial, its the statue of Sir!!!Arthur Harris He is the human symbol for the deeds bomber command is responsible for. Incendiaries and cluster bombs are constructed and mend to be used against soft targets, like houses and humans. The honor is not with the decision, the honor is with the men risking their lives to defeat the evil Nazi regime by the "honored" and "holy" Harris.
So Harris stands for bravery and gallantry Sir Arthur Harris, would the Queen honor a coward?
grazyarnie 2 years ago
Sorry grazyarnie: thumbed you down wrongly! Britain is schizophrenic about it's relationship with 'cousin Germany' and although it has centuries of skeletons to hide, it never 'did that' i.e. con-camps on own soil - we did nasty stuff on islands far away, or islands not so far in Ireland's case! We have a great Sprichwort: 'never shit on your doorstep'. What most Brits choose to ignore is that millions of German invalids, Gays,communists and objectors as well German Jews died in those camps.
helenheather 2 years ago
@helenheather
no problem, I dont have hard feelings against the british nation, actually I like them, the british folks. I even do honor the bomber crews cause they dropped not only bombs they also dropped food and "sugar" during the Berlin blockade. Morgenthau was refused by the US american people and Marshall was used for the Germans as well, as the rest of Europe. Germans finally found their place in the world with the help of the people, not politicians, of the US and UK
grazyarnie 2 years ago
@grazyarnie To raise much needed funds for this memorial the RAF Bomber Command Time Capsule allows you to leave your personal tribute to those who gave everything for us: bombercommand,com/timecapsule
BomberCommand100 1 year ago
@BomberCommand100 okay again for You to retype to hammer it into the heads of ignorance...the idiots, I dont call You that. were believing Harris´s lies, they even believed that Churchill wasnt envolved as a responsible in the sinking of the Lusitinia....was planned by Churchill, cause later he said:" the germans brought us the most victorious deed we were aiming for.....
So the political world wanted war against the germans...and the germans emperor was an idiot...as history shows
grazyarnie 1 year ago
@BomberCommand100
Your statement isnt reflecting to truth. Your name should bound You on truth.but You just use it to spread lies and faulty propaganda speeches against the ethnic germans...You dont attack the bogus enemies You are after, You believe in idiotic thoughts like the holy praised command in1945
grazyarnie 1 year ago
Brits aren't told whole what really happened in school or the media- we have to READ modern more objective books to find out. Most of my life I believed Dresden = Tit for Tat for Coventrry i.e. Dresden no worse off! I visited both cities often. But, Dresden was raised to ground: schools, hospitals, zoo, churches and 2 cathedrals - fire recumbusted for DAYS AFTER. Thousands of bodies were buried in mass graves for hygiene reasons. NO CITY in England suffered like this, including Coventry..
helenheather 2 years ago
No memorial to SS. That is obvious. Consequently, no memorial to the RAF bomber command which implemented similar genocidal agenda as the SS. Like the bullets of the SS were directed at Slavic women and children, the phosphor and gasoline jelly were directed at German, French, Italian and Austrian women and children.
No memorial for the RAF Bomber Command. The Nuremberg alone defines the character of atrocity clearly enough and that applies to the winners too.
hwschildt 2 years ago
@hwschildt Utter drivel. There is NO comparison whatsoever between the activities of the SS Einsatzgruppen, who embarked on a campaign to DELIBERATELY annihilate Jews, Gypsies, the mentally & physically impaired, & the activity of the RAF Bomber Command. The whole purpose of the strategic bomber campaign was primarily intended to destroy/disrupt German war production. It was NOT a campaign aimed at ANNIHILATING every single German man, woman & child. EMotive bullshit from HWS as per your SOP.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
Thank you for posting this. A very poignant and fitting tribute. The very right to argue this point was made by the sacrifice these young men made to keep our country free, they stood up and were counted, would the youth of today do the same in those circumstances? Per Ardva
warbyuser 2 years ago
"...Anybody who reads the point I raised & your failure to answer appreciates who has the upper hand and it ain't you!"
I don't have time. But some even basic work in library would prove - AND EASILY - all your points total bogus.
Then, Mr Liverpool. You also forget what you have said earlier - thus your arguments don't form a consistent whole.
Finally, a person who never admits that he could be wrong is not very smart. That is you Liverpoolscottish.
hwschildt 2 years ago
Take your basic work in a libary and ask were finland was in ww2 they joined the nazi's and they turned on them just to get slapped by the soviets by taking a city and here you are on a USA website talking to a U.K person about something you never even seen before about bombing ..heres a little slap to you .i have been in a flying lacaster I know why a 4,000lbs cookie and insend, bombs were used the cookie was droped first to blow roofs off and windows the insend were to burn the rest
freakyflow 2 years ago
@freakyflow
The lack of education, intellect and humanity speaks through you. You see the deliberate roasing of civilians justified, just like what happened in Japan and Vietnam too.
Besides, you are a young lad with some heroic insights on the ww2. You never been in a flying Lancaster (the coffin for pilots with no escape when such a thing woiuld crashland and explode).
hwschildt 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
"Take your basic work in a libary and ask were finland was in ww2 they joined the nazi's and they turned on them just to get slapped by the soviets..."
@freakyflow
Read something first and only then tell your opinions about my country of which I am proud.
And oh yes! Averell Harriman, Prescott Bush and J.P.Morgan! American Bankers!!! They supported the campaign of the Nazis before 1933!!!
hwschildt 2 years ago
@freakyflow
The Finns did not join the Nazis (Did you mean germany?), they were invaded by the Red Army of the mass murder Stalin, your beloved "Uncle Joe" and were left in the lurch be all Western Allies, so they had to defend themselves against a overwhelming number of communists- and prevailed!
And on YT there are no USA websites, dude! If you can`t stand freedom of speech, stay away!
robinhood48 2 years ago
@robinhood48 You don't know your history. Go and research SS Viking Division. It was formed entirely from Finnish VOLUNTEERS. The Finns played a significant part in the fighting on the Ost Front and Viking was classed as an elite division.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH
Thank you for your interesting contribution to this discussion. No need for me to resarch, I know the history of the Waffen- SS. They were an international legion and the best army ever. Not only Finns joined this elite army but also French, Belgians, Netherlands, Swedes and even Muslims from Balkan.
Until 1944 the Waffen SS consisted of volunteers only, after 1944 the German parts of the SS drafted conscripts.
Anyway, thanks for the advice.
robinhood48 1 year ago
@hwschildt "I don't have time. But some even basic work in (a) library wold prove- AND EASILY- all your points total(ly) bogus." Really? Bring it on then Bullshitschildt. Stop fudging, bullshitting & evading. You need to read more. Try "Bomber Boys," Patrick Bishop. Try "Bomber Command," Max Hastings. Try "Bonber Offensive," By Sir Arthur Harris.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago 2
My failure? Oh I feel devastated, but dizzy before the splendour of your intellect, Mr. Liverpoolscottish. How persuasive you are when you preach the gospel of carpet bombing!!!! Awesome!
hwschildt 2 years ago
Comment removed
hwschildt 2 years ago
"The RAF bombing was very inaccurate & sporadic. Incidentally, who bombed Guernica?"
Yes, they bombed Guernica and that was wrong. But what did the RAF in Iraq and India in the 1920s? Why so selective, Mr. Liverpoolscottish? I know why because I already know you, so don't bother answering.
hwschildt 2 years ago
Perhaps you would like to discuss how primative both bombs & bombing itself was during the 1920's? The average bomb weighed no more than 20 lb & was usually released over the side of the fuselage, or dropped off a wing pylon. Accuracy & therefore effectiveness was abysmal. There is no comparision between the early 20's & the mid-late 30's. By the mid 30's, they were building DEDICATED bombers, as opposed to throwing bombs over the side of bi-lanes. You make inapproriate comparisons ALL the time.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 2 years ago
"I note with considerable interest, that you have completely evaded the question I posed to you."
You told me earlier how extatic you felt that you would not have to communicate with me, and I confirmed that the feeling was mutual.
Well Mr.Liverpool, I guess that you have short memory. How come?
hwschildt 2 years ago
How odd. You have continued to send me replies, but when you are put on the ropes by an argument you cannot defeat, you resort to your inner child & decide you do not wish to discuss matters. How selective, how childish! Answer the question & stop evading your defeat.......Anybody who reads the point I raised & your failure to answer appreciates who has the upper hand and it ain't you!
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 2 years ago
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"Fritz Thyssen resigned from the Council of State after November 9th 1938 Kristallnacht, was arrested in 1940, and spent the remainder of war in a sanatorium and in concentration camps."
I know that. But it does not undo the fact that behind Hitler's rise were two German bankers who were closely collaborating with Bank of England which had earlier sanctioned the merciless monetary politics of the Weimar Republic.
hwschildt 2 years ago
"That is fascinating - could you post some other links up as I'd be interested in reading more about this."
Ok. Let me send you a personal message ok? Links cannot be added to the posts here.
hwschildt 2 years ago
"Talking of burning women & children, perhaps you would like to debate the Holocaust of the Jews?"
There are nice photos of Fuehrer posing with Averell Harriman and Prescott Bush ('Boy George's grandpa') from the NY-Based bank Union Banking Corp. which was a NY Affiliate of the Bank of England.
hwschildt 2 years ago
" IT WAS NOT THE BRITISH."
Where was the necessary capital for the huge war effort for the ww2? In Germany after the 20s? Not Likely. LOLOLOL
That money was in London City and NY Wall Street, and bankers usually don't finance anything without expectations of profit.
hwschildt 2 years ago
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healeyisland 2 years ago
contd.
"... According to documents seen by the Guardian, after UBC was set up it transferred $2m to BBH accounts and between 1924 and 1940 the assets of UBC hovered around $3m, dropping to $1m only on a few occasions."
hwschildt 2 years ago
The Union Banking Corporation (UBC) was a banking corporation in the US whose assets were seized by the United States government during World War II under the Trading with the Enemy Act and Executive Order No. 9095. According to an Oct. 5, 1942, report from the USA's federal Office of Alien Property Custodian, Union Banking was owned by Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaardt N.V., a Dutch bank.
healeyisland 2 years ago
The memo from August 18, 1941 states "My investigation produced no evidence as to the ownership of this Dutch bank."[1] The Dutch bank was alleged to be affiliated with United Steel Works,[relevant? discuss] a German company. Fritz Thyssen and his brother, Heinrich Thyssen-Bornemisza, had the Dutch bank and the steel firm as part of their business and financial empire according to the US. government agency.
healeyisland 2 years ago
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healeyisland 2 years ago
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healeyisland 2 years ago
"The Union Banking Corporation (UBC) was a banking corporation in the US whose assets were seized by the United States government during World War II under the Trading with the Enemy Act and Executive Order No. 9095."
And the damage already done. So now one could concentrate on hiding the vestiges.
hwschildt 2 years ago
Ben Aris in Berlin and Duncan Campbell in Washington The Guardian, Saturday 25 September 2004 23.59 BST Article history:
"By the late 1930s, Brown Brothers Harriman, which claimed to be the world's largest private investment bank, and UBC had bought and shipped millions of dollars of gold, fuel, steel, coal and US treasury bonds to Germany, both feeding and financing Hitler's build-up to war.
Between 1931 and 1933 UBC bought more than $8m worth of gold, of which $3m was shipped abroad. ..."
hwschildt 2 years ago
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healeyisland 2 years ago
"Sorry, what is BBH again?"
I think that is "Brown Brothers Harriman", i.e., Harriman & Bush. Not sure. But it is certain that Averell Harriman and Prescott Bush were both promotors of "Racial Hygieny" and eugenics, and that Hitler knew them personally. Thus BBH would be UBC, i.e., Union Banking Corporation.
hwschildt 2 years ago
It is an interesting theory. But it would have been utter madness for the BoE to sponsor a "contained" war in Europe - especially after 14-18. There may have been elements throughout the world, in the USA, Britain and Europe, that subscribed to the policies Nazi Germany. However, this evidence doesn't mean that the origins of world war two can be laid at the door of either the British People, Britain as a nation or the British Government.
healeyisland 2 years ago
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"It is an interesting theory. But it would have been utter madness for the BoE to sponsor a "contained" war in Europe - especially after 14-18."
Not at all. Only that the plan badly backfired.
How can you explain the utterly brutal treatment of the Democratic Germany while Hitler's 3rd Reich was treated with leniency.
hwschildt 2 years ago
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"However, this evidence doesn't mean that the origins of world war two can be laid at the door of either the British People, Britain as a nation or the British Government."
Of course the ownership and other legal issues can be camouflaged effectively. And I am aware that the Dutch bank had a central role in funding Germany. One thing is, however, certain. The gigantic funding of Hitler could not possibly have happened with the Swiss loans or by looting the occupied territories alone.
hwschildt 2 years ago
This is but one part of the picture. The central agent in this was Bank of England and its head Montagu Norman. Harriman and Bush were his NY affiliates.
hwschildt 2 years ago
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healeyisland 2 years ago
Well Britain's interest was always a weak European continent. I suspect that since most of the wealth of this planet was Anglo-U.S. based in the 19th and 20th century, the world wars were the effort of draining Europe's wealth and population.
Britain succeeded in this - Austria and Turkey were chopped to pieces easily and the natural resources caught in the Middle East. As to Germany, the British establishment was obsessed in its destruction fearing that Germany and Russia would join.
hwschildt 2 years ago
I thought it was France, not Britain, who pushed for the punitive settlement of Versaille. The changes in Austria and Turkey etc. after world war one came about through the collapse of the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires.
healeyisland 2 years ago
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"I thought it was France, not Britain, who pushed for the punitive settlement of Versaille."
Britain followed passively what France did. Thus very probably Britain had secretly encouraged France to do that.
hwschildt 2 years ago
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hwschildt 2 years ago
Exactly. WW1 virtually bankrupted Britain. Our economy was a mess for years afterwards. The last thing as a nation we either needed, or wanted was yet another war. We slashed defence budgets & ran our armed forces down massively. In the 30's, politicians closed their ears to the voice in the wilderness who warned of potential resurgent German mlitary power & aggression, namely, Churchill. Hws & his pathetic conspiracy theory falls flat on it's face. There was NO desire for war in Britain.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 2 years ago
Do bankers represent GOVERNMENT & therefore political will? No they do not. Britain's economy was in turmoil post WW1. Defence spending was SLASHED in the 20's & 30's. If we wanted war, where was the huge increase in defence spending in the early 30's? There simply wasn't any. British politicians only woke up in 1936 & began to spend money on the forces EG The RAF- Hurricanes & Spitfires began to appear. Your theory has such huge holes in it a FINNISH SS Div could drive through it unnoticed.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 2 years ago
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healeyisland 2 years ago
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healeyisland 2 years ago
You will not find ANY concrete evidence to support the conspiracy theory nonsense that certain indivduals on YT appear to cling too. At best they are misguided buffoons, at worst they possess a hidden and very sinister agenda-ie Pro-Nazi apologists. There is one on here who posts such drivel at a prodigious rate, all over WW2 video's dedicated to the British. I have concluded the most effective way to deal with them is to totally ignore them, not engage, and just give them the thumbs down. :)
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 2 years ago
Hjalmar Schacht was affiliated with Montagyn Norman's Bank of England which implemeted the looting policy of reparations during the Weimar Republic & c. Then, J.P.Morgan and UBC are British NY affiliates.
These problems have been dealt with both Anthony Sutton and Guido Giacomo Preparata who ARE respected historians.
hwschildt 2 years ago
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healeyisland 2 years ago
I note with considerable interest, that you have completely evaded the question I posed to you. Namely, if according to your conspiracy theory bullshit, Britain purposely engineered WW2, why was our defence budget so pitiful in the early-mid 1930's? So the British political elite actively encouraged the banks to lend Hitler money for armaments, yet they failed to spend an adequate amount on the British defence budget?! They must have really wanted to fight another war with Germany then......NOT.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 2 years ago
Very nicely done. So sad to see so many young men caught up in the big mess.
itsabomberscope 2 years ago
You young folks have missed the point.. The best that the RAF could do was hit large area targets at night. The Barnes Wallis bombs were never plentifull. By the way, the innocent women worked in the armament factories, Defence of the Reich AA units, fighter control and the children were in the Hitler Jugend. The real innocents went to the camps. If you don't believe me ask the Pope. He Manned a big FLAK gun as a innocent child,
beowulf342000 3 years ago
Lets respect the pilots ok.
But let's also remember what they actually were told to do. The Nazi Germany did the same but that is no valid excuse.
hwschildt 3 years ago
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hwschildt 3 years ago
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hwschildt 3 years ago
I could remove this comment and the previous also but I'll leave them here for all to see. You obviously miss the point entirely.
alanstarkie2001 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I respect the pilots who served their country, wholeheartedly.
But my post which is harsh, reflects the sinister implications behind the campaign, and the harsh fact that most of the bombs were unleashed against civilians.
I don't harbour any sympathy towards the Nazi government of Germany and I condemn racism.
To me a Lancaster is like a black swastika on a white circular field and red background.
My tribute to the victims of Guernica, Varszaw, Coventry, Hamburg, Dresden and Hiroshima.
hwschildt 3 years ago
I removed the post because it was too disrespecting towards the pilots.
But I point out that there are people everywhere who abhor the campaign of the RAF Bomber Command during the WW2 and who can't ever accept it as valiant or even necessary,
hwschildt 3 years ago
A valid point hwschildt and would appear the reason that the British government never truly recognised the flight crews. I made this video but have a similar respect of the crews of German U-boats. While I condemn the politics, one cannot understand what both had to endure, serving their respective countries. I may be criticised for saying that but why have double-standards?
alanstarkie2001 3 years ago
A very good point, and the comparison of the RAF bomber crew to the German U-boat crew is very relevant. They sank many civilian ships, even ships who were full of immigrants heading to the U.S.
hwschildt 3 years ago
Perhaps you would like to comment on the Luftwaffe bombing campaign in Britain? Was that necessary? Was that valiant or necessary? Are we worse simplt because we hit back harder?! lol Next time we have to face an evil, totalitarian regime that engages in industrial scale mass murder, invades & occupies it's European neighbours and aims to dominate the world, what do you suggest? Perhaps we should fight back with a feather duster? Or hit them on the head with a bunch of flowers? IDIOT.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 2 years ago
I have already condemned the Luftwaffe campaign against Britain in numerous posts of mine. Actually it was Churchill who PROVOKED Luftwaffe to bomb Britain. Berlin and the Ruhr area were bombed several times before Coventry and the Blitz. This is the truth.
hwschildt 2 years ago
Yes indeed it is, and the bombing was completely ineffective at that stage of the war. The RAF bombing was very inaccurate & sporadic. Incidentally, who bombed Guernica? Who bombed Warsaw & Rotterdam? Was that in Churchills orders too? The reason behind the bombing of Berlin in 1940 is patently obvious- it was to draw the Luftwaffe away from bombing the RAF fighter airfields in 11 Group which were taking a pounding. A very clever strategy under the circumstances-clever Winston!
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 2 years ago
Hwsschildt- You are full if it! You infest WW2 videos dedicated to the British all over YT. I have read your thinly disguised anti-British drivel on numerous sites on YT. Perhaps ou should pick up a history book & remind yourself who actually started the whole bloody episode referred to as WW2. Big clue for you- IT WAS NOT THE BRITISH.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 2 years ago
At least Britain lost her empire (thanks to Germany) and became America´s poodle.
199520002002 3 years ago
The only way Britain could fight Germany was burning her women and children.
You can be really proud.
199520002002 3 years ago
Perhaps you should go and research what the German Luftwaffe did to Coventry. After Coventry, the gloves came off and we gave it back to you lot in spades. How dare you criticise the British in such a way. Talking of burning women & children, perhaps you would like to debate the Holocaust of the Jews? You are a hipocrit & you make me want to vomit!
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 2 years ago
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hwschildt 2 years ago
Figures are irrelevant. The Germans embarked on the bombing of civilians with great gusto in WW2. Unfortunately, they picked on a nation that learned to hit back far harder than they ever could with a strategic bomber force, as opposed to a tactical airforce ie Luftwaffe. The ONLY issue that matters is this- WHO STARTED AN AGGRESSIVE WAR OF CONQUEST & OCCUPATION IN 1939? Big clue- it was NOT Britain. Your point is null & void. You are like a stylus stuck on a record-whinging on over & over. BORE
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 2 years ago
The greatest crime of all is to start a war. Who started WW2? Who flattened Poland? Bomber Harris? Who terrorised the Dutch into surrendering by threatening to lay waste to Rotterdam, then did so anyway, even after a surrender had been arranged? Bomber Harris? Who invaded Belgium & France & put a knife to the throat of Britain? Bomber Harris? Obviously NOT. The Nazis brought down the sword of Damocles on their own heads through their pursuit of an aggressive war of conquest. They are culpable.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 2 years ago
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Ca. 600 dead in Coventry, very bad indeed and already criminal, but 45000 dead in Hamburg by the operation with a conceited name 'Gomorrah' - a true war crime.
hwschildt 2 years ago
very moving!
7649460 3 years ago
Excellent work - a worthy tribute.
VikingG 3 years ago
Magnificent!
buddy1901 3 years ago