The Mayan city Pan cha'lib' and The Book of Mormon

[heyduke3]

This is for tourist and not a real Mayan ritual.

[theephraimite]

Some of this stuff is very similar to certain aspects of Polynesian culture, especailly the blowing of some kind of trumpet and what sounds like the war cry that we Samoans do.

[omiolo]

I was looking at going to the Mayan city of LAMANai. Funny how one of the main characters in the BOM is Laman and there is a city called LAMANai. Joseph Smith sure was a good guesser.

[1nV1nC1Bl3BaLaM]

Ilove copal

[apocalypse1280]

I thought "Bountiful" was in Arabia? Anyway, a lot of evidence does point to the Book Of Mormon being historically true. I'm just troubled by the belief that there are multiple gods, and that God was a human, and that men can become Gods. Not only is none of that mentioned in the Book Of Mormon, but it's blasphemy in my opinion.

[fairldsorg]

@apocalypse1280 Yes, there was a Bountiful in the Old World as well. Odds are, they named the New World Bountiful after the one in Arabia.

For the rest of your questions, we have several articles on those issues. Just go to fairwiki dot org and type in theosis. That will link you to several different articles on the subject.

[apocalypse1280]

@fairldsorg So there are 2 bountifuls in the Book Of Mormon?

[fairldsorg]

@apocalypse1280 Yup. 1 Nephi 17:5 is the Arabian Bountiful, while Alma 52:15 is the New World Bountiful

[apocalypse1280]

@fairldsorg I don't know about this, but it's blasphemy to believe in more than one God, or suggest that men can become Gods.

[LDS4Life71]

@apocalypse1280 You need to read it cover to cover for yourself.

And it is really good if you play it to listen to while you read it online.

[Bureyeanne]

@apocalypse1280

Not blasphemy, the very word of the Lord. It is just that so much was taken with the apostles were killed.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

[apocalypse1280]

@Bureyeanne So you think he meant that literally, even though Moses couldn't see the true nature of God, nor can any other human as it is written?

[Bureyeanne]

@apocalypse1280

Ex. 33: 11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. . .

[apocalypse1280]

@Bureyeanne Doesn't it say in the Bible that no one can see the true likeness of God, or he will instantly die? I thought Moses talked to a burning bush, not face to face with God. You obviously gave an example, but doesn't that mean the Bible contradicts itself?

[Bureyeanne]

@apocalypse1280 The answer to that is found in Mark 9: 2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

So the key is the idea of being changed in body and spirit in order to be able to behold the presence of God. For one's own eyes can not behold God but spiritual eyes. Otherwise one would wither in God's presence.

There are other examples of such in the scriptures.

[tuvoca]

@Bureyeanne Ask a Muslim what that Christian stuff means .They can give you a Muslim and traditional 'middle eastern' perspective. Muslims think certain things in the bible are pretty blasphemous. Specifically, phrases in the bible like "children of God," "inheriting all that the Father hath," and many other parts the bible. Ask them directly what they believe and they'll tell you.

[bmw311]

@apocalypse1280 Answers to your questions and all kinds of other LDS doctrinal issues look up Jeff Lindsay LDS FAQs. Poke around on that site, he's got all kinds of goodies with good references to multiple sources.

[msstandage]

And i promise you that if you read the book of Mormon and pray about its truthfulness god will reveal it unto you after the trial of your faith just as he has to me and over 12 million other people who are living on this earth.  I challenge you to read and pray about that book.

[msstandage]

Evidence though is not enough. And i know this because it was certainly not enough for me. It just couldn't convince me even though it was evidence. I could have been shown the gold plates which Joseph smith used to translate the book. I could have seen, touched, and turned the plates but i still would not have known anymore then i did at that time before seeing the plates. I testify that God works threw faith.

[msstandage]

Have you ever seen a perfectly able 35 year old that still lives with his parents that's happy? Think of god the same way and that we chose to leave his house to come to earth and progress threw mortality so that we can someday receive what he has and have our own heavenly homes. You said in your comment that a lot of evidence does point towards the book of Mormon in being historically true.

[msstandage]

Well if God is perfect. And is all loving. He would want his children who are us and everybody that has lived and will live on this earth to have what he has and to be what he is. Also parents who want the best for their children want them to go out and leave there houses and make families and homes of their own. Because they know that's best for them and will ultimately lead to there own happiness.

[msstandage]

@apocalypse1280 that was something that was hard for me to grasp also. Through praying i received an answer to those troubling questions. Lets take true parents who love their children and are good people. They want there children to have everything they have plus more. They want them

to be as happy as they can possibly be and to avoid making mistakes and especially the same

mistakes they made.

[theephraimite]

@apocalypse1280 One of my religion professors (he's not lds) says that Chistians don't even read the Bible. You are exactly one of the reasons why I agree with him. Heck, there are tons of scriptues in the New Testament that teach of man's potential to reach godhood.

[rappleye5]

Where can I get more information about Pan cha'lib, and the translation into "bountiful"?

[omiolo]

Before departing from Omaha on May 13, the boys studied handcart history, making connections with the past by identifying themselves with individuals who made the original treks.

[omiolo]

“Somebody suggested we do it as a family trip,” he said, referring to his wife, Shari, and their boys — Samuel, 12; Joshua, 10; Matthew, 9; and Michael, 2½. “After serious prayer and pondering, we decided that would be the thing to do.”

[telephonemoose]

where did you get your information? Is there any way I can access it? I don't think you're lying or anything, it's just that if I ever wanted to show this to any non-members it would be easy for them to say "the guy making this video just made it all up"

[LDSapologist71]

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance that principle is contempt prior to investigation.

-Herbert Spencer

[omiolo2]

Pan cha'lib'

BOUNTIFUL

[fairldsorg]

And the list goes on and on.....

[jeannie1116]

The Book of Mormon people lived in the Great Lakes area, not Central America. Lehi and his family landed at the mouth of the Mississippi River. The false premise that the people arrived in central America comes from the statement that they could walk from the Sea on the East to the Sea on the West in 1-1/2 days. Land!These People came from the Red Sea and Dead Sea, which are like our Great lakes where the same can be said of walking from the Sea on the East to the Sea on the West in 1-1/2 days.

[fairldsorg]

No one actually "knows" where The Book of Mormon took place. There are several theories out there, including Central America, North America, South America, and all of the Americas. The Church has said that there is no revealed geography, so we are left on our own. There are several other good videos found to the right in the related videos section, but they mainly support a Central American setting.

[trinidadrm]

Ask what most BYU scollars say! They almost all support this area and people!

[trinidadrm]

alma 51 33 and 52 1  definately not in the cold great lakes!

[trinidadrm]

where is this city on google earth

[trinidadrm]

Look up pres hinkleys guatamala temple dedicatory prayer from 1984 to see who the lord claims to be the children of lehi!

[fairldsorg]

Excellent point trinidadrm. In addition to that, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote "but we must remember that there are millions of the 'remnant' in Mexico, Central and South America" (Church History and Modern Revelation 2:127)

Speaking in conference in October 1921, Elder Andrew Jenson stated, "We, therefore cast a glance southward into old Mexico and through the great countries beyond --

[fairldsorg]

down through Central America and South America, where there are millions and millions of Lamanites, direct descendants of Father Lehi." Conference Report, October 1921, p.120

President Hinckley in his prayer at the dedication of the Mexico City temple in December 1983, he stated, "Bless Thy Saints in this great land and those from other lands who will use this Temple. Most have in their veins the blood of Father Lehi"

[fairldsorg]

In his March 6, 1999 dedicatory prayer given at the Colonia Juaréz Chihuahua Temple, Hinckley he said, "Bless Thy Saints that they may continue to live here without molestation. May they live in peace and security. May they be prospered as they cultivate their farms and pursue their vocations. May the sons and daughters of father Lehi grow in strength and in fulfillment of the ancient promises made concerning them."

[fairldsorg]

In August 1999, Hinckley made a similar statement as he was in Guayaquil, Ecuador to dedicate another new LDS temple. "It has been a very interesting thing to see the descendants of father Lehi in the congregation that have gathered in the temple...So very many of these people have the blood of Lehi in their veins, and it is just an intriguing thing to see their tremendous response and their tremendous interest" (Salt Lake Tribune 11/30/2000).

[fairldsorg]

When President James Faust gave the dedicatory prayer for the Tuxtla Gutierrez, Mexico temple on March 12, 2000, he stated, "We invoke Thy blessings upon this nation of Mexico where so many of the sons and daughters of Father Lehi dwell."

President Thomas S. Monson said in the dedication of the Villahermosa, Mexico temple on May 21, 2000: "May Thy eternal purposes concerning the sons and daughters of Lehi be realized in this sacred house"

[fairldsorg]

Pan cha'lib is only known from the narrative. But the modern day Joyabaj is in El Quiche, Guatemala 14° 59' 42" North, 90° 48' 22"

It probably would be easiest to google Joyabaj and click on the google maps link.

[fairldsorg]

I think John Lunds book "Mesoamerica and The Book of Mormon: Is This the Place?" makes a great argument for the climate of the Book of Mormon not being compatible for the Great Lakes region.

[ilikesuzuki]

@fairldsorg hi fyi i was a missionary serving in Guatemala in 2001-2003 i saw a lot of evidences in the land to help me to know that it did took place in this region of the world. i saw ancient cities where you could still see the dirt walls, AND LAKES COVERED CITIES.

[ilikesuzuki]

@fairldsorg many of the Guatemalans believe the ancient true story of Quezelcote. he was believed to be pure with light skin and will visit the people again and bring peace to them. i have a lot of interesting stories about this mystical place regarding to the BOM

[fairldsorg]

@ilikesuzuki Very interesting, thank you for sharing. I'd love to see more posts from you.

[strikerhiryu]

Jesus Christ Lives! Joseph Smith is a prophet of God! The Book of Mormon is the word of God!

[1bakers3]

@strikerhiryu tru i believe the book is also tru l

[Christisms]

I am taking it that most Mormon scholars are pretty convinced that they know that the Book of Mormon takes place in Central America prior to the rise of the Mayan civilization?

[LDSapologist71]

Read the book of Mormon and then you can see how well all this information really ties in.

It is truly amazing.

[THELDSLIFE]

We're searching for evidence that a 300 B.C. judeo-christian society can be found among them... and so far it looks very much to the affirmative. I'm sure we'll all have much more to 'hang our hats' on other than "earth science" and "language usages" that the book of Mormon uses; suggesting a semetic culture had written this book and not 19th century farm boys...

[THELDSLIFE]

The best way to prove things for yourself is to "read them" and not "read of them"

[lemanusamoa]

Awesome:)

[ChristopherMillz]

Very interesting. Nice vids coming out. btw, at 1:35, "know" should be "no" :)

[fairldsorg]

@ChristopherMillz

Thanks Christopher. That's what I get for trying to put something together after a few night time Theraflus!

[ChristopherMillz]

np. hope it's not the swine!

[elderwannabe1and2]

i want to do this, before game its like HAKA lol

[omiolo]

Pan cha'lib means BOUNTIFUL!

I tell you, Joseph Smith sure was a good guesser =)

I think he got the name from the island of pan cha'lib where captain hook hid his gold.....

[Bureyeanne]

@omiolo Capt Hook postdates Joseph Smith by 80 years.

[omiolo]

@Bureyeanne i am sure that is a Mormon conspiracy too =). Changing the date of Capt. Hook's birth.