From what I understand...If you have a good piston set-up then it is a very good system for a number of reasons. 1. Much easier to clean. Very few people actually like cleaning their gun. If you keep your gun clean, take care of it and you don't mind doing it, it doesn't matter. 2. Reliability. Some claim that a good piston system gives your rifle the reliability of an AK-47. 3. Good for suppressed. Keeps all the gases from going in your face if you have a suppressor. For plinking I would go DI.
I stayed with the original design for compatibility although a lefty with a gas system would be awesome if I wasn't concerned about parts. I have shot and cleaned a gas gun. I like D.I. for the amount of shooting I will be doing and the current cost of Ammo will keep my gun clean.
@reapercvr Another mindless idiot who did not read the discription or watch the full video. Sorry mam but your the POG. You would have seen that this was a question to the article posted in the video but stupid people such as yourself aren't smart enough to read or know what a question mark looks like. May you be the first to die, Ya fucking idiot!!!!!!
The old phrase "Don't try to fix what isn't broken" comes to mind. The DI system has worked for the AR-platform, so why change it? Plus, the piston system is just more money you have to drop into the gun. Sure it may be more reliable, but us civilians aren't going to be crawling through mud bogs, swamps, or deserts any time soon.
Thanks for the video, it helped me make my decision! I was debating installing a gas piston system, honestly it seems like a gamble that I'm not going to get much out of anyways. I like target shooting and prairie dog hunting. Once in a blue moon I'll have some fun with a mag dump. With my personal rifle I don't get in sustained firefights, drag it through water or dirt. So I'd say it's quite a bit of money for something I'll never use it for.
For small rifle cartridges like 5.56 where fouling and heat are less of an issue, I'd go DI. However after owning a DPMS AP4 .308 AR, I can say that heat and fouling are a major issue with the larger cartridge, especially when shooting even somewhat rapid fire. Compared to my P308 from POF that replaced the DPMS, the operation in the new piston rig is much more reliable, and many parts are proprietary anyway on the larger caliber ARs. Good vid.
@HomelessOnline That's correct. It basically means that the gas emitted by the discharge of the round directly impinges upon the bolt carrier group to cycle the weapon's action. Gas-piston systems use the same gas, but the gas impinges on a small piston, which pushes an operating rod that cycles the action.
@crunch2407 The op rod is hitting the impact key which is a more violent action than the gas action which pushes the BCG. A muzzle brake solves the issue of recoil though. Its not much of a difference but Piston guns tend to have a lil more recoil because of the action taking place at the gas key. It kind of hard to explain. Youtube dose not give enough space.
@datzitteezy Many good gas-piston ARs use a low-mass bolt carrier to counter the added mass that is being cycled. I think that things like buffer spring weight, buffer weight, barrel design, overall weapon weight and of course muzzle device all affect perceived recoil to a greater degree... tough to draw an exact side-by-side with so many variables, but the point is, you're right, if piston rigs have any more recoil, apples to apples, it's pretty minor.
@allMTN Yeah thats whats I was telling someone else. Recoil isn't a big issue to must. And with so many variations out there no system is the same, which can be a good or a bad thing. Its up to the consumer at the end of the day and they can't be wrong. Piston or DI your still getting what you want and your still getting a good AR.
I have a stag 8 with over 2,000 rounds. Great rifle and no problems. Not heavier, as accurate, runs cooler and cleaner. Just stating the facts. the rifle cost me $1,100. This review is flawed
@martiniw2olives This isn't a review. Your comment that this a review is a flawed one. The title of this video ends in a "?". You've got a safe queen bro. 2,000 rounds is nothing on a AR. We can do that in a day or two in DI guns and not clean em. Plus the article focuses more on drop in kits not factory piston guns. Some of you guys aren't paying attention to the details of the video. Please pay attention before making flawed comments about a video that has nothing to do with your gun.
@martiniw2olives You need to get out and shoot that stag. Piston ARs are great. They don't suck. You steal gotta clean it though, Yeah you have to brake a DI down but it dosen't take long to clean a DI AR like some people think. Piston ARs are an alternative but in no way shape or from are they a better gun than a DI AR. I just haven't seen this in my expirence when shooting piston ARs. More recoil, Less accurate, just as reliable as a good DI gun in my book. And I paid $800 bucks for my BCM.
Ok, so if there is a better platform that perfoms better and can save soldiers lives then why not? I have loved my piston ARs and will continue to push them. Pistons keep powder residue, carbon, etc out of the reciever and bolt other than what escapes the breach. This means a much cleaner more reliable rifle. Either way keep shooting and training have a good one. Even stoner noticed the DI problem check out the AR-18/180. Just food for thought.
@trevinor3 ummmm the title clearly states "Why Gas Piston ARs suck?" No body said anything about a M1 grand or a M2 carbine.......wrong vid bro and your welcome. Once again Please pay attention PEOPLE. read and watch the entire video before commenting on platforms nobody's fucking talking about!!!!!
Also in an emergency situation where I can't clean the gun regularly, it get's wet, muddy, what ever.. I'd like to have the piston system because I can remove the piston in a second and wipe it off, pop it back in and be ready to go. With the DI, I have to take the BCG apart to make sure everything is clean. Also, if there is a malfunction the DI is blowing hot gas closer to my face where as the piston releases the gas towards the front of the barrel.
@ung427 False. A good Di gun will work in all those conditions you stated. BCM rifles have fired over 60k in rounds with only being cleaned once. Just a few drops of slip2000 is easier than removing the op rod. If you have a malfunction then there is no hot gas at all. The gun is not firing so hot gas can't blow in your face. You only get alot of gas in your face when shooting supressed. Not a big issue otherwise.
It's just my preference from my own experience that's all. I just like it more because I didn't experience a loss in accuracy. Perhaps other rifles have more of a loss in accuracy and I got lucky. It just seems safer to me also.
I've got an Adams Arms piston system on a Smith and Wesson M&P 15 OR and it is just as accurate as before. The only differences that I find are that it now is not picky in terms of ammo, it shoots anything from cheap Wolf to match grade ammo, the bolt carrier group is cool and clean all day long, no matter how much I shoot, and it is slightly heavier now. I do like the fact that I can turn the knob and shut off the gas piston which seems to make my groups a lot smaller at the range.
@ung427 My BCM does just the same. Didn't need to change to a piston either. Piston drop ins will effect accuracy at distance. Not sure how far your shooting at your range. But at 400 yards must drop ins have rounds off target. DI are so much more accurate at distance. But thats not to say piston drop ins are bad. it just depends on what your looking for as a shooter. Me......I like accuracy at distance. Adams Arms makes the best drop ins that I have seen so far.
The DI system was designed for rifle length. It has NOT been used in its current format for 40+ years like some people think or try to argue. In the last 20 years the military has introduced more 16 or 14.5 inch barrels. This causes problems for DI guns. Too much pressure and too much stress on the BCG and extractor. In a rifle lenght DI gun you will have years and thousands of rounds of reliability. Carbine or mid length you have problems. Add that to hours of cleaning. No DI for me.
@KSH243 False. these days manufactures are producing, carbine, midlength, and rifle systems that are very reliable. they had issue in the past just like they did a few years ago when piston rifles hit the market. BCM rifles are some the best DI AR platforms on the market. DI for me.
@datzitteezy- Correct. However I was commenting on your statement of 40 years of faithfull service. More like 20 in the current design. Show me a vet or nam or korea that loved their M16. Now days they have improved DI guns. I own a DPMS 308. Other than cleaning it I have not complaints. I have seen many extractor failures and bolt failures on DI guns at 2k rounds or less. DI guns just have too much maintance. Wet bolts and all. Piston guns are a long way from sucking though.
@KSH243 Thats cool. Everyone has seen someting different. Ive seen DIs out shoot pistons and Ive seen pistons out last DIs. Its hard today to buy a bad rifle. Even the bottom of the barrel guys are putting out rifles that at least work on the range. Ive put over 1000 rounds through my BCM in one day. Its was dirty but didn't need to be cleaned. Wet the bolt a lil bit she ran like a sewing machine after another 1000 the next day. Only cleaned it because it deserved it. LOL
I have to say all of the authers points are up to debate. And the ones that do hold ground are mute... Like saying its heavier.... I mean, 3 or 4 ounces? Come on, do some push ups. Price on some LWRC guns are 1800 while a colt is 1400.... Really, they are running out of shit to write about.
@fcuk4220 Well you have to look at from the ground troops standpoint. They carry 100+ pounds sometimes so yeah 3 or 4 ounces would matter to them. As for civilians.....Nah 3 to 4 onces wouldn't matter much. The article does look at piston drop in kit and rifles from ground troop prospective (ref. to certain things the aurthor refers to.) The aurthur is pro DI and states that. Also at the time the article was published alot of the issues he talked about were indeed a fact.
@datzitteezy I'm pretty sure if they carry 100+ pounds, 3 or 4 ounces is not going to give them much to complain about. You kinda made a point against yourself. You'd think a person who carries much less weight would be the one to notice the extra couple extra ounces. And I'm pretty sure 3 or 4 ounces is worth the enhanced reliability, and a piston system would be geared toward someone who is already trained to carry a lot weight, and will be continuously firing (such as a soldier)
@juggaknot93 Thats not my point. Its a fact. I didn't just come up with that statement out of thin air. Read any military history which covers the advancement of technology on the battlefield. Its a fact.
@datzitteezy What are you talking about man? I'm pretty sure you read my comment wrong. And we're not talking about weight lifting, were talking about stamina and endurance. That example may have made sense in your head, but it doesn't apply. Not to mention we're talking about 4 measly ounces, not 10 pounds of dead weight. You're points are deluded.
@juggaknot93 No you read my comment wrong. Your talking about a few ounces. Im taliking about adding a few onces to the overall package that some troops carry. We aren't talking about weightlifting but the rule still applies. If you add weight wether a ounce or a pound it makes a difference. I never said anything about endurance, where did that come from?. There's a saying that our trrops use. "Ounces equals pounds Pounds equals pain." another FACT.
@juggaknot93 My points do make sense while yours do not. Using your logic people get stronger as they carry more. If you add wieght to something that someone is carring and its heavy as hell then they aren't going to notice it? Thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. What are you talking about? Im talking about adding additional weight to the overall package. What is going on in your head fool?
@juggaknot93 Quick question. If two guys are lifting weights.....One guys got hundred pounds on the bar. the other guy is just lifting the bar. You add 10 pounuds to each bar who's going to feel it more? Im pretty sure that the guy lifting the heavier weigth is going to feel more stress than the guy that was just lifting the bar. The same rules apply on the battlefield.
@fcuk4220 I will say that Im a pro DI guy as well. I do not think that piston ar's suck. I do think that the hype surpassed anything the rifle could have accomplished. I will say that Piston systems offer a the end user an alternative to the norm. But your trading one feature for another. And thats not a bad thing because its up to the consumer at the end of the day. If its what they want, then thats all that matters right?
At best a gas piston can be a 3 MOA rifle, and the new MINI 14's are 2-3 MOA for about 650 and they do not fail as long as you use factory mags. Do not waste your money on bullshit AR's.
@MrJapper88 3 MOA rifle? Do you know this for fact? No. I own a modified POF P308 with an HBAR and I shoot sub MOA with the rifle all day. I compete with this rifle. I also have a POF416 16" upper on a spikes tactical billet lower I built the way i wanted. That 5.56 gun ALSO shoots 1MOA or less.
@1967800 I didn't say they suck. its just the cover story title. notice the "?". Carrier tilt was an issue when I posted the vid over a year ago. Please pay attention people!!!
Piston ARs are gay. DGI works just fine. DGI ARs are the most accurate rifles the military has ever fielded. even more accurate than the Springfield 03. Plus with DGI guns you get faster split times because DGI is faster and softer shooting than piston guns. SOF over seas are returning their 416s for mid length DGI ARs because of those reasons. If it's still the weapon of choice for them, it is for me too.
In my experience with POF-USA and Osprey Defense, their pistons eliminated heat, carbon build-up and gas blow back in the bolt/firing pin and shooter's face. Carrier tilt and wear is all but gone with the latest one piece, tapered back bolt carriers. Carriers ride on bearing surfaces that keep them alligned, only the back floats free to ding the internal buffer tube finish. A small price to pay for reliability that Direct Impingement rifles can only mimic in a dust free lab.
@virgosintellect Good points. My expirence has been diferent though. The Osprey Op rod broke and POF rifles seem to crap out (FTF/DFs) after a high round count. Not bashing those systems but stating my expirence with those systems. I've seen better out of the adams drop in gas piston kits and LWRC.
Number one, piston guns are not mil spec. Each different model is proprietary to the manufacturer, parts are not interchangeable. Number two, they have slightly lower accuracy due to the stress imposed on the barrel by the piston.
@CharlieDoan You had someone else to think for you? Now I see why you guys kept getting your ass kicked during the vietnam war. LOL. They put our boys over there with a bunch of programable idiots that had know clue on how to defend themselves. Good luck in the future SHEEP!!.
@CharlieDoan I never said that the Ak/SKS suck!! This video is about piston AR's and those only and, the article says they suck not me. This video never talks about AKs. Vietname ended close to 40 years ago. There have been so many changes to both platforms neither of them reall suck. You have know idea what your talking about dude.
My LMT MRP piston driven carbine runs cooler, cleaner and longer than any other DI AR/M4 I've handled. Those who disagree are just oldschool and fear change. Also, they've already invested a shit pile of money on old firearms and cannot justify buying another one. Or, their wives won't let them LOL! But honestly, if a piston rifle is done right, LWRC or LMT then it's a great improvement over a DI rifle.
The best military on the planet with more expenditure on arms than the next 8 largest COMBINED has been using direct impingement rifles for nearly 45 years, they must be doing something right.
I replaced my DI with an adams arms piston on my rock river. I only did this to run testing and see if there is realy any reason to have a one. So far i dont see a difference in reliablility from any of my DI rifles. The rifle still gets dirty with or without the piston upgrade. But also i dont believe in neglecting a rifle that one day may save my life every piece of equipment needs upkeep. I will be doing more tests this summer and i'll give my final thoughts.
@JonnyC308 Sounds cool. I personally think the whole piston thing is highly overrated, it doesn't take much to clean a DI rifle, and really all a DI rifle needs is clean ammunition and a bit of lubrication on the bolt carrier.
@shdowhunt60 You bet man, one of the best upgrades for a di is a nickel boron bolt carrier. I have a Fail Zero in my Black rain/Noveske build everything wipes right off without using oil. When everyone thinks of the DI failing their getting their info from the 1960's when the AR needed some improvement. All of the new products we have now have eleminated those problems. There's no perfect rifle and are prone to failing unless you take care of them.
@JonnyC308 Yeah, I'm not even ARs around a lot. My grandfather has a couple DPMS ones, and they're nice. Really easy to clean. I'm actually trying to save up for the DPMS LR-308.
the di guns the ar 15 m16 rifles were 30 years be hind .when there were made . the ak47 piston fal piston hk nuff said all are piston ath ar is just now decoming what it should have been
the guy that wrote that is a fucking dumb ass the piston will last 3 times as long thats why the seals uses the lwrc ar15 rifles a piston is a lot quiteer than a gas gun with a can on it thats why i have one
@WIGGLYMOJR he's not hating on the GP AR. he's just giving buyers some things to consider when purchasing one. I use LWRC as an example in the video. The author does not use LWRC's name in the article . Personally I think LWRC rifles are badass. I'm still perfer DI guns. I think piston AR's are a great alternative to the norm.
@WIGGLYMOJR Navy Seals do not use LWRCs. They use the HK 416. The point of the article is correct. A piston AR is only advantageous when running suppressed (as you say) or if shortening the barrel under 14.5".
@WIGGLYMOJR The LWRC isn't your typical piston AR. It has special treatments to help prevent corrosion from ammo, salt water, ect as well as being a replacement for the chrome lining. My friend is a SEAL who is deployed over in Kenya and he's using the HK416 right now (piston driven) and that is what the majority carry. The piston will add some life but it takes away from the accuracy slightly due to the way it must be attached to the barrel (prevents proper resonance). Both should work fine
I mostly agree with the author, having read that particular article.
But I had to throw out half of it because it's an obvious bias towards direct impingement. DI would be fine for most people as most don't have SBRs, suppressors or put more than 4K rounds through it as long as they own it. Just keep it well-lubed and you'll be just fine.
Personally, I'd pony up for an LWRCi or Christensen Arms: "buy once, cry once" I say. NFA fans will love the increased MTBF and decreased wear-and-tear.
Let me start off by clearing a few things up. Direct Impingement IS a piston system. It is an internal gas piston system to be more exact, by every definition. An external pistol system is what the article refers to. It is, in every sense, inferior to the original internal piston system that Eugene Stoner designed. I urge the inexperienced to get involved on web sites like M4C and talk to people who have experience with high round counts and more advanced training. Do not give into the hype.
@joethe33 Thanks for your input. You are correct. However there is so much fluff on those forums I stay away from them. M4C is okay but it seems like every body on those forums is a elite spec ops seal team delta recon marine call of duty para rescue ranger. Most of the stuff on those forums is BS nowadays. High Round counts to me mean that someone visits the range alot. Im more interested in training and the manipulation of a weapon. You can do that without shooting up all your ammo.
@ziostplague Sorry bro your comment got deleted cause I wasn't talking to you. best thing for you to do is mind your business. If you don't have anything to add about the video than please keep ignorant dumbass comments to yourself...........Dumbass LOL!!!!
A word of wisdom, drop in kits will cause you nightmares for years, I'm still suffering from trying one in the early 90's. Either get a rifle that already has it or get the kit that replaces the gas block.
As for Mil-Spec Piston Systems that were made as a Piston AR, the Colt P0923 APC (Advanced Piston Carbine) IS Mil-Spec as is the Colt CM901 Mill-Spec, as is the LMT CQB MRP Piston System IS Mill-Spec.
You should read the article before you make a video about a magazine article 1. "Carrier Tilt": Nowhere in the paragraph does it mention ANYTHING in regards to "Causing Fouling In The Upper or Lower" & you say as if it's certain whatever YOUR idea of carrier-tilt will in fact occur. 2. Has anyone ever herd of an Op-Rob breaking? It's going back & forth impinging on the Carrier Key & the Carrier is specifically made to prevent Carrier-Tilt, that was a small when Piston Systems 1st came out.
@HungarianLegionnaire Ok the article was more than a paragraph long. It also does talk about fouling. Not in the prargraph you can see in the vid but it does. Op rod do break. There's a video TMHonFire posted were the op-rod breaks on his rifle. So i've heard of it and a few thousand other shooters have as well. Also this video was posted when carrier tilt was still big issue.
@thereal3323 A thing of carrier tilt. Would rather have a pws or lwrc rifle. Ferfrans has a great piston upper as well. Ruger are ok but they suck compared to lwrc or pws. The quality control is much better with pws and lwrc.
@datzitteezy very true lwrc are nicer but that comes with a price to. about 7 to 800 dollars more and im just talking uppers. also ruger has fixed there carrier tilt. the older parts on the piston system had problems. great vid keep them coming.
@thereal3323 Exactly. You pay for what you get. Id rather pay the $700 bucks and know they system is going to work out of the box. PWS and LWRC have been proven. thanks for watching!!
piston all the way. love my osprey. have over 3000 rounds. not one problem. and thats with some of the ammo being wolf and that stuff is crap. But my scar 16s is the king of the hill right now. recoil is amazing. piston driven rifle that was built from the ground is really hard to compete with. but di is still good.
@thereal3323 Osprey are cool. 3000 rounds..... that a high count too. The BCM DI filthy 14 has over 60,000 rounds through it not a single malfunction. Now thats impressive. A gas system that has that many rounds + its more accurate than any drop in piston kit. I'll stick with BCM.
@datzitteezy thats really good but what civilian is going to shoot that many rounds with a single rifle. just doesnt happen to many times, hurts the pockets. plus cleaning a di just seems to be more of a hassle. also from my experience they tenned to fail, and i dont need that in the desert.
@thereal3323 The filthy14 was only been cleaned about 4 times. If cleaning a rifle 4 times is too much of a hassle then wow. I mean you still have to clean a piston rifle. A civilian may not fire that many rounds......then thats a good thing. Hell put half that many rounds through a rifle and he/she would only have to clean it once or twice. Dosen't sound like to much of a hassle to me.
@thereal3323 In my expirence with drop in Piston AR's they tend to be less accurate than DI systems. After about 300 yards they are way off. At 400 yards the groupings were so spread out that some rounds were off target. I don't like how piston drop in kits mess up the natrual harmonics of the barrel. Id rather have a system bult around the piston like the SCAR. More accurate, more reliable.
@datzitteezy its how that filthy 14 was cleaned. it is a hassle compared to cleaning a piston. you dont have to keep that chamber clean. and yes SOME drop in pistons are inaccurate but it mostly realize on the operator.also could be trigger,barrel type, ammo,sight ,etc. but yes the mk16s is sitting on the top of the hill. you should also check out that beretta ARX. people are going to love that rifle. Cant wait what they say about it.
@datzitteezy Drop in piston kits aren't as reliable as a built from the ground up Piston Op ARs, do realize BEFORE the gets the gas has a chance to impinge on the piston the bullet is YARDS downrange? The piston has already impinged on the Op-Rod, Carrier & Key & a new cartridge has been chambered before it could ever have an opportunity to have ANY effects on the barrel harmonics. Thats the kind of statement from someone who doesn't know about piston systems & just read a G.P hater forum.
@HungarianLegionnaire LOL!!!!!! Your grammer sucks. "do realize BEFORE the gets the gas"........and your trying to prove a point? You have no idea what your talking about nor do you know what your trying to say. Also I don't hate GP rifles. If you watched the video before getting your tampon pulled you would have heard me say that I wouldn't mind having a GP rifle. Stop taking shit so personal. Watch the video again son and then finish working on your grammer. Then retry your comment. Peace.
@HungarianLegionnaire I want you to think about what your trying to say. Your fingers out typed your brain though lol. The first round fired is the most accurate. So just like said "the next round is chambered.".....If a round is chambered its ready to be fired right? So the barrel is still flexing when pulling the trigger under rapid fire correct?. If the harmonics are off, then guess what those follow up shots will be? Less accurate down range. AND THATS A FACT!! ITS not G.P. hater forum BS.
I was not into the ar 15 during 2010. But a quality of an item is should be judge not the whole lot. It also depends on the user, gas pistons are great for suppressed weapons (aka a can) along with full auto. Whereas a DI gun is good for shooting at the range and yes it has served well in the military but so did a lot of weapons that just plain ol' sucked. What it really boils down to is what you want, unless the laws say otherwise. Me I am going to get gas piston cause I like it. Peace!!
i just want a system that doesnt jam what ever the conditions might be, clean or dirty .accuracy? my ak74 can do the same as most AR at 200 yard havent tryed longer than that ( not hating on AR) im actually looking to buy my first AR thats why im here
@prnydecalle nothing wrong with that. the AK is great system. i just like the fact that if need to engage targets out passed 200 yards that i can. If you maintain a AR, run the proper spec parts in it then it will run just like an AK. BCM ARs have been known to run over 61,000 runs being cleaned less than 5 times. That saying something about a good DI gun. they work.
The AR piston has too many parts (at least three) that can break - piston, op rod, and impact key (and connecting pin between op rod and piston). This is what Stoner wanted to avoid when he invented the M16. The AK piston and carrier is a one piece fixture (piston screwed into carrier and rivet pinned) which is indestrucable and there is no impact involved (so no parts to chip or break). So if you want a rock solid .223 piston rifle - get a Saiga 223 and convert it. They are very accurate.
The game changes when you dump that shotty drop in system and pick up a PWS mk116, it's built like a tank using a LONG stroke piston. Far superior to Any DI rifle.
@TexasDistortion Except in accuracy. PWS is the shit but superior to a DI system? Nope. Accuracy falls all off with piston systems. It may be a great alternative to DI but superior......I doubt it.
a major problem with the AR or M16 platform is that its to finicky about dirt, where our GI's have been fighting lately in the dust and dirt of mideast, AK's are efficient and rock solid, mostly due to its stamped process, I understand this, some may not, but also because of its piston system keeps it cooler. I like the new Osprey version, used kidney bean shaped piston, to get more surface area, 5 minute mod. due to not having to change out fixed front sight, AK reliability with AR accuracy
Hmmmm.... So why fix what isn't broken? Gas piston works great, but Eugene Stoner nailed it with the DI, it's what the gun is designed for. I'll keep the gas piston in my ak.
Endless supply of replacement parts from hundreds of different sources. I strongly believe that this one weak link of non standardized piston parts is what will prevent the piston AR from pulling ahead of the DI system in popularity.
At this point I trust both systems equally. There is a trade off for either. One, lack of easy access to spare parts. The other requiring a little more attention to maintenance. Neither being a big inconvenience. Maintain the DI. Or...
Less need for maintenance not requiring regular lubrication to continue to function reliably. Plus as you know, lubricants attract dirt and dust into the action. But pistons require a small amount of lube too so not totally immune to that either.
While I disagree with much of what the author of the magazine article says, I do share the concerns about proprietary parts. This in itself is why I am still a fan of the DI system. It's simple and easy to keep running.
The DI does require a little attention but nothing big really. My only complaint about the DI is being somewhat lubrication dependent. It does require it to keep functioning properly.
In contrast my AA rifle will still have it's lubrication present even after many, many rounds unlike my DIs which eventually burn the lube off and require more oil. Not a big deal really unless you don't have access to more lube. This is where a correctly setup piston rifle shines.
The Adams Arms has been flawless. I prefer it. Not excessively expensive. No tilt. Reliable. Balance and weight almost identical to my Colt 6920s, BCMs, Spikes, Bushmasters, etc. Much cleaner running of course. 1000s of rounds won't get the piston rifles as dirty as just 100 rounds do in my DI rifles.
However, the dirty nature of the DI has never been a problem for me. But I'm not using it like our fine enlisted men either. My DI rifles keep running just like the piston.
datzittezzy, well done vid. I have rifles of both genre. I have to post this long winded response in several repies because of the 500 chacter limit.
A lot of the original complaints about pistons have been addressed. I have a Ruger SR556 and Adams Arms piston. Pinned factory installed gasblock. Neither exhibit any signs of carrier tilt. The Ruger is the early version and is a little heavier and does suffer from the occasional stuck case when using Wolf. Totally reliable with brass case.
Colt and FN both make piston guns based off the M4 platform. I know some people may not like the piston system and I'm not saying change every gun. I'm just saying if a soldier wants a piston system they should have the option, wether they pay for it out of their own pocket or the Army pays.
@mdouglas1990 To bad bro. Fact is that they can't choose what they use. Infantry boys are using DI systems nand kicking ass with it. Colt and FN are not making retro fitted systems based on the M4 and they are not issued to any infantry at this or anytime. Thats a fact.
@mdouglas1990 With all that being said. I think compaines like LWRC and Primary Weapon Systems and even the foreign AR makers like HK and Frefrans make awesome piston driven systems and would do just fine on the battlefield. Are they the end all be it answer to the AR/M4 platform? No. Stoner got it right with the DI system. Its proven itself for over 40 years and more users like it than not.
@datzitteezy More soldiers like the DI gun because they haven't had a chance to use a piston gun. Those who have used the FN SCAR and the HK 416 have said they liked it more. Not saying they're all going to like it better, like you said, most like the DI system better. But, to give the most un-biased opinion, they need exposure to both systems.
As for the operating rods, if something breaks, there will be extra parts for these rifles in supplies. The army isn't going to issue weapons to troops and leave them with what they have. And I've seen how the gas tubes are installed compared to the pistons, they are just as simple.
@mdouglas1990 Not true. they are not as easy to install. It aint hard but not as easy as a gas tube which held in place by the taper pin and barrel nut. You would have to replace the hole gas block to fit a piston system. And also the army would have to pay for all those extra op rods. so your looking at milliions of wasted dollars on a platform that does not need change. The DI system has proven it self over and over again.
@mdouglas1990 Nice article but the info seems extremly bias. Not something I would rely on as fact. Just a few soliders giving their opinion is all that seemes to be in the article. Maybe they did not take care of there weapons. There are numerous articles out there that state the complete opposite of what these guys are saying. Articles where soldiers said there carbines ran fine with the proper care.
@datzitteezy What defines proper care, cleaning it everyday? Tell a soldier, whose life the upgraded guns possibly saved, and tell them it isn't worth the change. I'm sure they'd have a different opinion.
@mdouglas1990 I guess reading the M4 manual would help in defining proper care and I never said it wasn't worth the change. Its exactly what you said it was.....their opinion not mine. there's nothing wrong with piston AR's but not all soldiers are for the change. Fact is.......most of them aren't.
@datzitteezy I say give the soldier the opinion at least. I really don't see a need to purchase a brand new gun designed from the ground up around a gas piston, a kit would do fine. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper to do it that way. Plus, you could even easily train the soldier using the piston to install it on their rifle, which would help the soldier understand the system more and how it works. So, if something were to go wrong, they would know how to fix it.
@mdouglas1990 It would cost more than you think. Op rods would have to go through Mil spec testing (raising cost). Also what happens if an Op rod breaks in combat. Its a moving part that at somepoint will fail. It would be a lot harder to replace the op rod than a gas tube. Trust me you aint gonna find a replacement operating rod in afganistan. Training would also cost money.
@mdouglas1990 What would be even cheaper than retro fitting all rifles with drop in piston kits would be use the proper maintance on the DI guns they already have. Clean it. Thats the cheapest way and they work. Thats what most soldiers are saying. And they already understand the systems that they are using. If something goes wrong with their systems then they already know how to fix it as is. Why force the soldier to change his training?
@datzitteezy It wouldn't be forcing the soldier, they'd willingly choose to. Besides, the Army has given gas piston guns to infantry, rangers, and special forces and they adapted to the rifles with no problem so retraining wouldn't be an issue.
@mdouglas1990 Ahhh Infantry men are issued weapons and not allowed to choose. The army has not given any type of retro fitted piston M4 to any of its infantry or SOP. Rangers were given the SCAR which is a completely different system based on the M4 but not the same. Special forces use the HK416 which is a gun designed around the piston not retro fitted. Where do you get your info from?
@mdouglas1990 FACT is that the DI system works fine if you take care of it. Theres nothing wrong with it. If it aint broke don't fix it. Look at the top tier makers of the M4 platform. Colt, BCM, dainel defense and even FN who makes the M16 for the army. they don't make piston M4 or ARs. why? cause there is nothing wrong with the systems on the market today. Pistons are a cool concept and make for a clean AR but just clean a DI and it will work fine. If it aint broke don't fix it.
@mdouglas1990 Also retro fitted systems mess up the natural harmonics of the barrel. The natural flexing of the barrel is impeeded when you clamp the new block and op rod to it. The barrel is not able to flex in the way it was designed. the accuracy will fall off at distance.
I changed a bushmaster 6.8 to a piston, using the pws brand. cant say that i would do it agin. not that im not satisfide with the results completly. the cost was to high. i could of bought a lwrc for what ive got in the bush conversion. the lwrc a better an way more accurate wepon. im now wanting to sell the bush and buy a m6a2 6.. hope this helps
i got a home built DI -AR when i take it to the rage i shoot at least 500 RD's it runs like a Swiss watch no complaints , BUT if i were to buy a new AR i would get a piston one
Most piston systems have a "stacked" BCG and the return spring is usually in line with the piston. I think piston guns BCG needs to be on steel rails. Striking the BCG issue sheeting strike plate keys off has been fixed by making the strike plate part of the BCG as opposed to attaching like a gas key.
@mdouglas1990 I don think so either way it's pushing above the center axis in a "floating" BCG. The gas key directs the flow of gas down and through the center axis through the bolt it doesn't push on the top of the BCG.
I think if the piston was built in or resting on the carrier, it would get a shove like direct impingment. It might help decrease carrier tilt since its pushing against the carrier rather than impacting it.
Also saw you wouldn't mind an lwrc. For free i wouldn't either but my buddy paid 2800 after tx lic for his m6 and had two rounds fail to extracted due to the rims being ripped off and a fail to feed ( prob mag related) the first 200 rounds. I'm 4000 in my BCM 14.5" midy with spikes nib m16 BCG & t1 buffer not one problem with wolf,m855, mk318 mod 0, fiocchi .223.
5% ammo 5% operator error not changing out gas rings or knowing when an extractor needs replacement. The m4 doesnt need a piston if anything better mags(pmags), a mid-length gas system, and 5 coil extractor spring with black insert and o ring and heavier buffers to slow it down a bit(nothing major) reverse engineering the rifle is ridiculous.
You mean to tell me people have become complete pussies over these small issues with gas piston ARs. So what, there is a little weight added and a small decrease in accuracy. You ask anyone in the military, they'll tell you they'd rather have a gun that has a small drop in accuracy and works all the time than a gun thats more accurate and works half the time. WW2 vets had heavier guns and they sucked that shit up and kept moving.
@mdouglas1990 Honestly I have a lot of friends and family in the military. They say accuracy is very important. None of my military buddies ever complaind that their guns working half the time either. Most said that their M16 or M4 ran flawless and the others had mag feeding issues other than that.....nothing. WW2 vets carried less equipment compared to what guys are carrying today. There was a trade off. As soilders carried more the lighter their guns got.
From what I understand...If you have a good piston set-up then it is a very good system for a number of reasons. 1. Much easier to clean. Very few people actually like cleaning their gun. If you keep your gun clean, take care of it and you don't mind doing it, it doesn't matter. 2. Reliability. Some claim that a good piston system gives your rifle the reliability of an AK-47. 3. Good for suppressed. Keeps all the gases from going in your face if you have a suppressor. For plinking I would go DI.
violencethequestion 3 days ago
I stayed with the original design for compatibility although a lefty with a gas system would be awesome if I wasn't concerned about parts. I have shot and cleaned a gas gun. I like D.I. for the amount of shooting I will be doing and the current cost of Ammo will keep my gun clean.
perkele311 4 days ago
they are awsome if you get one that was built for that not a kit you POG!!!!
reapercvr 6 days ago
@reapercvr Another mindless idiot who did not read the discription or watch the full video. Sorry mam but your the POG. You would have seen that this was a question to the article posted in the video but stupid people such as yourself aren't smart enough to read or know what a question mark looks like. May you be the first to die, Ya fucking idiot!!!!!!
datzitteezy 6 days ago
The old phrase "Don't try to fix what isn't broken" comes to mind. The DI system has worked for the AR-platform, so why change it? Plus, the piston system is just more money you have to drop into the gun. Sure it may be more reliable, but us civilians aren't going to be crawling through mud bogs, swamps, or deserts any time soon.
Blakmajik4 1 week ago
Thanks for the video, it helped me make my decision! I was debating installing a gas piston system, honestly it seems like a gamble that I'm not going to get much out of anyways. I like target shooting and prairie dog hunting. Once in a blue moon I'll have some fun with a mag dump. With my personal rifle I don't get in sustained firefights, drag it through water or dirt. So I'd say it's quite a bit of money for something I'll never use it for.
NolanMGI 1 week ago
@NolanMGI glad I could help.
datzitteezy 1 week ago
For small rifle cartridges like 5.56 where fouling and heat are less of an issue, I'd go DI. However after owning a DPMS AP4 .308 AR, I can say that heat and fouling are a major issue with the larger cartridge, especially when shooting even somewhat rapid fire. Compared to my P308 from POF that replaced the DPMS, the operation in the new piston rig is much more reliable, and many parts are proprietary anyway on the larger caliber ARs. Good vid.
allMTN 1 week ago
@allMTN Good info. Ive never thought about the differences with larger calibers in the AR platform. thanks for the input.
datzitteezy 1 week ago
@allMTN - What's "DI"? I keep seeing that, but I have no idea what it stands for. Thanks.
HomelessOnline 1 week ago
@allMTN - I think I figured out the answer to my question: "direct impingement." Please let me know if I'm wrong.
HomelessOnline 1 week ago
@HomelessOnline That's correct. It basically means that the gas emitted by the discharge of the round directly impinges upon the bolt carrier group to cycle the weapon's action. Gas-piston systems use the same gas, but the gas impinges on a small piston, which pushes an operating rod that cycles the action.
allMTN 6 days ago
@datzitteezy I thought because of the weight in the front it would reduce recoil, i mean i would think so
crunch2407 1 week ago
@crunch2407 The op rod is hitting the impact key which is a more violent action than the gas action which pushes the BCG. A muzzle brake solves the issue of recoil though. Its not much of a difference but Piston guns tend to have a lil more recoil because of the action taking place at the gas key. It kind of hard to explain. Youtube dose not give enough space.
datzitteezy 1 week ago
@datzitteezy Many good gas-piston ARs use a low-mass bolt carrier to counter the added mass that is being cycled. I think that things like buffer spring weight, buffer weight, barrel design, overall weapon weight and of course muzzle device all affect perceived recoil to a greater degree... tough to draw an exact side-by-side with so many variables, but the point is, you're right, if piston rigs have any more recoil, apples to apples, it's pretty minor.
allMTN 6 days ago
@allMTN Yeah thats whats I was telling someone else. Recoil isn't a big issue to must. And with so many variations out there no system is the same, which can be a good or a bad thing. Its up to the consumer at the end of the day and they can't be wrong. Piston or DI your still getting what you want and your still getting a good AR.
datzitteezy 6 days ago
I have a stag 8 with over 2,000 rounds. Great rifle and no problems. Not heavier, as accurate, runs cooler and cleaner. Just stating the facts. the rifle cost me $1,100. This review is flawed
martiniw2olives 1 week ago
@martiniw2olives This isn't a review. Your comment that this a review is a flawed one. The title of this video ends in a "?". You've got a safe queen bro. 2,000 rounds is nothing on a AR. We can do that in a day or two in DI guns and not clean em. Plus the article focuses more on drop in kits not factory piston guns. Some of you guys aren't paying attention to the details of the video. Please pay attention before making flawed comments about a video that has nothing to do with your gun.
datzitteezy 1 week ago
@martiniw2olives You need to get out and shoot that stag. Piston ARs are great. They don't suck. You steal gotta clean it though, Yeah you have to brake a DI down but it dosen't take long to clean a DI AR like some people think. Piston ARs are an alternative but in no way shape or from are they a better gun than a DI AR. I just haven't seen this in my expirence when shooting piston ARs. More recoil, Less accurate, just as reliable as a good DI gun in my book. And I paid $800 bucks for my BCM.
datzitteezy 1 week ago
@martiniw2olives And ive put over 7000 rounds through it.
datzitteezy 1 week ago
Milspec is king,
Simple is me, DI.
Piston is for Ak's.
CalvinDavidKnight 1 week ago
Ok, so if there is a better platform that perfoms better and can save soldiers lives then why not? I have loved my piston ARs and will continue to push them. Pistons keep powder residue, carbon, etc out of the reciever and bolt other than what escapes the breach. This means a much cleaner more reliable rifle. Either way keep shooting and training have a good one. Even stoner noticed the DI problem check out the AR-18/180. Just food for thought.
m4huntin 2 weeks ago
40 years of loyal service for the DI! says it all!
rednecklowlife 2 weeks ago
i have an m1 garand and an m2 carbine and taint got no problems! and I can thread a fleas arse at 100 yards! Thank you very much!
trevinor3 2 weeks ago
@trevinor3 ummmm the title clearly states "Why Gas Piston ARs suck?" No body said anything about a M1 grand or a M2 carbine.......wrong vid bro and your welcome. Once again Please pay attention PEOPLE. read and watch the entire video before commenting on platforms nobody's fucking talking about!!!!!
datzitteezy 2 weeks ago
Also in an emergency situation where I can't clean the gun regularly, it get's wet, muddy, what ever.. I'd like to have the piston system because I can remove the piston in a second and wipe it off, pop it back in and be ready to go. With the DI, I have to take the BCG apart to make sure everything is clean. Also, if there is a malfunction the DI is blowing hot gas closer to my face where as the piston releases the gas towards the front of the barrel.
ung427 2 weeks ago
@ung427 False. A good Di gun will work in all those conditions you stated. BCM rifles have fired over 60k in rounds with only being cleaned once. Just a few drops of slip2000 is easier than removing the op rod. If you have a malfunction then there is no hot gas at all. The gun is not firing so hot gas can't blow in your face. You only get alot of gas in your face when shooting supressed. Not a big issue otherwise.
datzitteezy 2 weeks ago
It's just my preference from my own experience that's all. I just like it more because I didn't experience a loss in accuracy. Perhaps other rifles have more of a loss in accuracy and I got lucky. It just seems safer to me also.
ung427 2 weeks ago
@ung427 And thats all that matters bro. thanks for watching.
datzitteezy 1 week ago
I've got an Adams Arms piston system on a Smith and Wesson M&P 15 OR and it is just as accurate as before. The only differences that I find are that it now is not picky in terms of ammo, it shoots anything from cheap Wolf to match grade ammo, the bolt carrier group is cool and clean all day long, no matter how much I shoot, and it is slightly heavier now. I do like the fact that I can turn the knob and shut off the gas piston which seems to make my groups a lot smaller at the range.
ung427 2 weeks ago
@ung427 My BCM does just the same. Didn't need to change to a piston either. Piston drop ins will effect accuracy at distance. Not sure how far your shooting at your range. But at 400 yards must drop ins have rounds off target. DI are so much more accurate at distance. But thats not to say piston drop ins are bad. it just depends on what your looking for as a shooter. Me......I like accuracy at distance. Adams Arms makes the best drop ins that I have seen so far.
datzitteezy 2 weeks ago
@datzitteezy I was shooting groups from 100 yds to 400 yds. It didn't seem to change the accuracy but I was using match grade ammo.
ung427 2 weeks ago
The DI system was designed for rifle length. It has NOT been used in its current format for 40+ years like some people think or try to argue. In the last 20 years the military has introduced more 16 or 14.5 inch barrels. This causes problems for DI guns. Too much pressure and too much stress on the BCG and extractor. In a rifle lenght DI gun you will have years and thousands of rounds of reliability. Carbine or mid length you have problems. Add that to hours of cleaning. No DI for me.
KSH243 2 weeks ago
@KSH243 False. these days manufactures are producing, carbine, midlength, and rifle systems that are very reliable. they had issue in the past just like they did a few years ago when piston rifles hit the market. BCM rifles are some the best DI AR platforms on the market. DI for me.
datzitteezy 2 weeks ago
@datzitteezy- Correct. However I was commenting on your statement of 40 years of faithfull service. More like 20 in the current design. Show me a vet or nam or korea that loved their M16. Now days they have improved DI guns. I own a DPMS 308. Other than cleaning it I have not complaints. I have seen many extractor failures and bolt failures on DI guns at 2k rounds or less. DI guns just have too much maintance. Wet bolts and all. Piston guns are a long way from sucking though.
KSH243 1 week ago
@KSH243 Thats cool. Everyone has seen someting different. Ive seen DIs out shoot pistons and Ive seen pistons out last DIs. Its hard today to buy a bad rifle. Even the bottom of the barrel guys are putting out rifles that at least work on the range. Ive put over 1000 rounds through my BCM in one day. Its was dirty but didn't need to be cleaned. Wet the bolt a lil bit she ran like a sewing machine after another 1000 the next day. Only cleaned it because it deserved it. LOL
datzitteezy 1 week ago
LWRC all day!!
BOWDOWNLS3 2 weeks ago
/shrug my LWRC m6a2 SPR is fantastic - Nothing wrong with DI or piston honestly - personal preference
xtop23 3 weeks ago
I have to say all of the authers points are up to debate. And the ones that do hold ground are mute... Like saying its heavier.... I mean, 3 or 4 ounces? Come on, do some push ups. Price on some LWRC guns are 1800 while a colt is 1400.... Really, they are running out of shit to write about.
fcuk4220 3 weeks ago
@fcuk4220 Well you have to look at from the ground troops standpoint. They carry 100+ pounds sometimes so yeah 3 or 4 ounces would matter to them. As for civilians.....Nah 3 to 4 onces wouldn't matter much. The article does look at piston drop in kit and rifles from ground troop prospective (ref. to certain things the aurthor refers to.) The aurthur is pro DI and states that. Also at the time the article was published alot of the issues he talked about were indeed a fact.
datzitteezy 3 weeks ago
@datzitteezy I'm pretty sure if they carry 100+ pounds, 3 or 4 ounces is not going to give them much to complain about. You kinda made a point against yourself. You'd think a person who carries much less weight would be the one to notice the extra couple extra ounces. And I'm pretty sure 3 or 4 ounces is worth the enhanced reliability, and a piston system would be geared toward someone who is already trained to carry a lot weight, and will be continuously firing (such as a soldier)
juggaknot93 2 weeks ago
@juggaknot93 Thats not my point. Its a fact. I didn't just come up with that statement out of thin air. Read any military history which covers the advancement of technology on the battlefield. Its a fact.
datzitteezy 2 weeks ago
@datzitteezy What are you talking about man? I'm pretty sure you read my comment wrong. And we're not talking about weight lifting, were talking about stamina and endurance. That example may have made sense in your head, but it doesn't apply. Not to mention we're talking about 4 measly ounces, not 10 pounds of dead weight. You're points are deluded.
juggaknot93 2 weeks ago
@juggaknot93 No you read my comment wrong. Your talking about a few ounces. Im taliking about adding a few onces to the overall package that some troops carry. We aren't talking about weightlifting but the rule still applies. If you add weight wether a ounce or a pound it makes a difference. I never said anything about endurance, where did that come from?. There's a saying that our trrops use. "Ounces equals pounds Pounds equals pain." another FACT.
datzitteezy 2 weeks ago
@juggaknot93 My points do make sense while yours do not. Using your logic people get stronger as they carry more. If you add wieght to something that someone is carring and its heavy as hell then they aren't going to notice it? Thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. What are you talking about? Im talking about adding additional weight to the overall package. What is going on in your head fool?
datzitteezy 2 weeks ago
@juggaknot93 Quick question. If two guys are lifting weights.....One guys got hundred pounds on the bar. the other guy is just lifting the bar. You add 10 pounuds to each bar who's going to feel it more? Im pretty sure that the guy lifting the heavier weigth is going to feel more stress than the guy that was just lifting the bar. The same rules apply on the battlefield.
datzitteezy 2 weeks ago
@fcuk4220 I will say that Im a pro DI guy as well. I do not think that piston ar's suck. I do think that the hype surpassed anything the rifle could have accomplished. I will say that Piston systems offer a the end user an alternative to the norm. But your trading one feature for another. And thats not a bad thing because its up to the consumer at the end of the day. If its what they want, then thats all that matters right?
datzitteezy 3 weeks ago
Ever owned a newer LWRC? Or maybe even a newer REC7?
fcuk4220 3 weeks ago
At best a gas piston can be a 3 MOA rifle, and the new MINI 14's are 2-3 MOA for about 650 and they do not fail as long as you use factory mags. Do not waste your money on bullshit AR's.
MrJapper88 3 weeks ago
@MrJapper88 You seemed really pissed. Calm down fool!! LOL
datzitteezy 3 weeks ago
@MrJapper88 3 MOA rifle? Do you know this for fact? No. I own a modified POF P308 with an HBAR and I shoot sub MOA with the rifle all day. I compete with this rifle. I also have a POF416 16" upper on a spikes tactical billet lower I built the way i wanted. That 5.56 gun ALSO shoots 1MOA or less.
angelxterminator 2 weeks ago
if they suck why is barrett making them. check out nutnfancy's review. carrier tilt has been fixed.
1967800 1 month ago
@1967800 I didn't say they suck. its just the cover story title. notice the "?". Carrier tilt was an issue when I posted the vid over a year ago. Please pay attention people!!!
datzitteezy 1 month ago
@1967800 they dont suck but nutnfancy is a joke and hardly an authority...
mer171 4 weeks ago
Piston ARs are gay. DGI works just fine. DGI ARs are the most accurate rifles the military has ever fielded. even more accurate than the Springfield 03. Plus with DGI guns you get faster split times because DGI is faster and softer shooting than piston guns. SOF over seas are returning their 416s for mid length DGI ARs because of those reasons. If it's still the weapon of choice for them, it is for me too.
Musashiprodigy 1 month ago
In my experience with POF-USA and Osprey Defense, their pistons eliminated heat, carbon build-up and gas blow back in the bolt/firing pin and shooter's face. Carrier tilt and wear is all but gone with the latest one piece, tapered back bolt carriers. Carriers ride on bearing surfaces that keep them alligned, only the back floats free to ding the internal buffer tube finish. A small price to pay for reliability that Direct Impingement rifles can only mimic in a dust free lab.
virgosintellect 1 month ago
@virgosintellect Good points. My expirence has been diferent though. The Osprey Op rod broke and POF rifles seem to crap out (FTF/DFs) after a high round count. Not bashing those systems but stating my expirence with those systems. I've seen better out of the adams drop in gas piston kits and LWRC.
datzitteezy 1 month ago
Number one, piston guns are not mil spec. Each different model is proprietary to the manufacturer, parts are not interchangeable. Number two, they have slightly lower accuracy due to the stress imposed on the barrel by the piston.
dustmundo 1 month ago
@dustmundo Right... thats why it's what the Navy Seals use and the M240B was recently replaced by an LWRC piston gun...
wtfdudenotcool101 1 month ago
Keep it simple
Buy 1 Ak-47
Buy 1 Bushmaster full size M16A1
And here you go..not need to read , not need to think and made other must think, because we had engineer to think for us already.
- Enjoy 2 world!
CharlieDoan 1 month ago
@CharlieDoan You had someone else to think for you? Now I see why you guys kept getting your ass kicked during the vietnam war. LOL. They put our boys over there with a bunch of programable idiots that had know clue on how to defend themselves. Good luck in the future SHEEP!!.
datzitteezy 1 month ago
So you said that AK-47 / SKS is suck because they used piston??? You did not know what u are talking about
AK-47 is over M16 man
You talked to a Vietnamese using M16 and Ak-47 right now!
CharlieDoan 1 month ago
@CharlieDoan I never said that the Ak/SKS suck!! This video is about piston AR's and those only and, the article says they suck not me. This video never talks about AKs. Vietname ended close to 40 years ago. There have been so many changes to both platforms neither of them reall suck. You have know idea what your talking about dude.
datzitteezy 1 month ago
Cool.
Thanks much.
34ID11Bravo 1 month ago
What is the front sight you have on this rifle?
Just curious.
Thanks.
34ID11Bravo 1 month ago
@34ID11Bravo Its an old yankee hill gas block sight. They don't make this style anymore.
datzitteezy 1 month ago
@shdowhunt60 How many DI AR rifles do you own? Have you ever ran 1,000s of rounds through either a DI or a Piston driven AR?
shaokem 1 month ago
My LMT MRP piston driven carbine runs cooler, cleaner and longer than any other DI AR/M4 I've handled. Those who disagree are just oldschool and fear change. Also, they've already invested a shit pile of money on old firearms and cannot justify buying another one. Or, their wives won't let them LOL! But honestly, if a piston rifle is done right, LWRC or LMT then it's a great improvement over a DI rifle.
shaokem 1 month ago
@shaokem Obvious troll is so painfully obvious.
shdowhunt60 1 month ago
The best military on the planet with more expenditure on arms than the next 8 largest COMBINED has been using direct impingement rifles for nearly 45 years, they must be doing something right.
the308capital 1 month ago
I replaced my DI with an adams arms piston on my rock river. I only did this to run testing and see if there is realy any reason to have a one. So far i dont see a difference in reliablility from any of my DI rifles. The rifle still gets dirty with or without the piston upgrade. But also i dont believe in neglecting a rifle that one day may save my life every piece of equipment needs upkeep. I will be doing more tests this summer and i'll give my final thoughts.
JonnyC308 1 month ago
@JonnyC308 Sounds cool. I personally think the whole piston thing is highly overrated, it doesn't take much to clean a DI rifle, and really all a DI rifle needs is clean ammunition and a bit of lubrication on the bolt carrier.
shdowhunt60 1 month ago
@shdowhunt60 You bet man, one of the best upgrades for a di is a nickel boron bolt carrier. I have a Fail Zero in my Black rain/Noveske build everything wipes right off without using oil. When everyone thinks of the DI failing their getting their info from the 1960's when the AR needed some improvement. All of the new products we have now have eleminated those problems. There's no perfect rifle and are prone to failing unless you take care of them.
JonnyC308 1 month ago
@JonnyC308 Yeah, I'm not even ARs around a lot. My grandfather has a couple DPMS ones, and they're nice. Really easy to clean. I'm actually trying to save up for the DPMS LR-308.
shdowhunt60 1 month ago
the di guns the ar 15 m16 rifles were 30 years be hind .when there were made . the ak47 piston fal piston hk nuff said all are piston ath ar is just now decoming what it should have been
WIGGLYMOJR 1 month ago
the guy that wrote that is a fucking dumb ass the piston will last 3 times as long thats why the seals uses the lwrc ar15 rifles a piston is a lot quiteer than a gas gun with a can on it thats why i have one
WIGGLYMOJR 1 month ago
@WIGGLYMOJR he's not hating on the GP AR. he's just giving buyers some things to consider when purchasing one. I use LWRC as an example in the video. The author does not use LWRC's name in the article . Personally I think LWRC rifles are badass. I'm still perfer DI guns. I think piston AR's are a great alternative to the norm.
datzitteezy 1 month ago
@WIGGLYMOJR Navy Seals do not use LWRCs. They use the HK 416. The point of the article is correct. A piston AR is only advantageous when running suppressed (as you say) or if shortening the barrel under 14.5".
CaribouLou45 1 month ago
@WIGGLYMOJR The LWRC isn't your typical piston AR. It has special treatments to help prevent corrosion from ammo, salt water, ect as well as being a replacement for the chrome lining. My friend is a SEAL who is deployed over in Kenya and he's using the HK416 right now (piston driven) and that is what the majority carry. The piston will add some life but it takes away from the accuracy slightly due to the way it must be attached to the barrel (prevents proper resonance). Both should work fine
jctSC2388 1 month ago
@WIGGLYMOJR it "might" last longer , keyword being might, but you have issues such as carrier tilt.
Piston AR's do some things really well such as suppressors & short barreled rifles , but for a standard carbine, not as much as you would think.
reignick1133 1 month ago
I mostly agree with the author, having read that particular article.
But I had to throw out half of it because it's an obvious bias towards direct impingement. DI would be fine for most people as most don't have SBRs, suppressors or put more than 4K rounds through it as long as they own it. Just keep it well-lubed and you'll be just fine.
Personally, I'd pony up for an LWRCi or Christensen Arms: "buy once, cry once" I say. NFA fans will love the increased MTBF and decreased wear-and-tear.
Excedrine 1 month ago
I got a LWRC 6.8 because its less time on cleaning. Why they cost more is that they are go to war ready.
crf50hugo 1 month ago
watch?v=aAqTpz_B_Ew&feature=fvwp&NR=1
rem0709 1 month ago
Let me start off by clearing a few things up. Direct Impingement IS a piston system. It is an internal gas piston system to be more exact, by every definition. An external pistol system is what the article refers to. It is, in every sense, inferior to the original internal piston system that Eugene Stoner designed. I urge the inexperienced to get involved on web sites like M4C and talk to people who have experience with high round counts and more advanced training. Do not give into the hype.
joethe33 1 month ago
@joethe33 Thanks for your input. You are correct. However there is so much fluff on those forums I stay away from them. M4C is okay but it seems like every body on those forums is a elite spec ops seal team delta recon marine call of duty para rescue ranger. Most of the stuff on those forums is BS nowadays. High Round counts to me mean that someone visits the range alot. Im more interested in training and the manipulation of a weapon. You can do that without shooting up all your ammo.
datzitteezy 1 month ago 5
@datzitteezy That Funny and true !
rem0709 1 month ago
@ziostplague Sorry bro your comment got deleted cause I wasn't talking to you. best thing for you to do is mind your business. If you don't have anything to add about the video than please keep ignorant dumbass comments to yourself...........Dumbass LOL!!!!
datzitteezy 2 months ago
A word of wisdom, drop in kits will cause you nightmares for years, I'm still suffering from trying one in the early 90's. Either get a rifle that already has it or get the kit that replaces the gas block.
TheBardicDruid 2 months ago
Adams arms is amazing, guns and ammo can kiss my ass. I'm going to build a grendel with their drop in kit.
NYBaller35 2 months ago
@NYBaller35 Nothing wrong with that. Hope the build turns out great. xD
datzitteezy 2 months ago
As for Mil-Spec Piston Systems that were made as a Piston AR, the Colt P0923 APC (Advanced Piston Carbine) IS Mil-Spec as is the Colt CM901 Mill-Spec, as is the LMT CQB MRP Piston System IS Mill-Spec.
HungarianLegionnaire 2 months ago
@HungarianLegionnaire Once again this article was released before those systems were introduced. Geeeez
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@HungarianLegionnaire
It wouldn't be "Mil-Spec" as there isn't any military contract, i.e. "spec requirements" - exactly why the FN-SCAR is NOT a MILSPEC item.
0SumProductions 2 months ago
You should read the article before you make a video about a magazine article 1. "Carrier Tilt": Nowhere in the paragraph does it mention ANYTHING in regards to "Causing Fouling In The Upper or Lower" & you say as if it's certain whatever YOUR idea of carrier-tilt will in fact occur. 2. Has anyone ever herd of an Op-Rob breaking? It's going back & forth impinging on the Carrier Key & the Carrier is specifically made to prevent Carrier-Tilt, that was a small when Piston Systems 1st came out.
HungarianLegionnaire 2 months ago
@HungarianLegionnaire Ok the article was more than a paragraph long. It also does talk about fouling. Not in the prargraph you can see in the vid but it does. Op rod do break. There's a video TMHonFire posted were the op-rod breaks on his rifle. So i've heard of it and a few thousand other shooters have as well. Also this video was posted when carrier tilt was still big issue.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
now looking at the ruger sr 556. A thing of beauty
thereal3323 2 months ago
@thereal3323 A thing of carrier tilt. Would rather have a pws or lwrc rifle. Ferfrans has a great piston upper as well. Ruger are ok but they suck compared to lwrc or pws. The quality control is much better with pws and lwrc.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@datzitteezy very true lwrc are nicer but that comes with a price to. about 7 to 800 dollars more and im just talking uppers. also ruger has fixed there carrier tilt. the older parts on the piston system had problems. great vid keep them coming.
thereal3323 2 months ago
@thereal3323 Exactly. You pay for what you get. Id rather pay the $700 bucks and know they system is going to work out of the box. PWS and LWRC have been proven. thanks for watching!!
datzitteezy 2 months ago
piston all the way. love my osprey. have over 3000 rounds. not one problem. and thats with some of the ammo being wolf and that stuff is crap. But my scar 16s is the king of the hill right now. recoil is amazing. piston driven rifle that was built from the ground is really hard to compete with. but di is still good.
thereal3323 2 months ago
@thereal3323 Osprey are cool. 3000 rounds..... that a high count too. The BCM DI filthy 14 has over 60,000 rounds through it not a single malfunction. Now thats impressive. A gas system that has that many rounds + its more accurate than any drop in piston kit. I'll stick with BCM.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@datzitteezy thats really good but what civilian is going to shoot that many rounds with a single rifle. just doesnt happen to many times, hurts the pockets. plus cleaning a di just seems to be more of a hassle. also from my experience they tenned to fail, and i dont need that in the desert.
thereal3323 2 months ago
@thereal3323 The filthy14 was only been cleaned about 4 times. If cleaning a rifle 4 times is too much of a hassle then wow. I mean you still have to clean a piston rifle. A civilian may not fire that many rounds......then thats a good thing. Hell put half that many rounds through a rifle and he/she would only have to clean it once or twice. Dosen't sound like to much of a hassle to me.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@thereal3323 In my expirence with drop in Piston AR's they tend to be less accurate than DI systems. After about 300 yards they are way off. At 400 yards the groupings were so spread out that some rounds were off target. I don't like how piston drop in kits mess up the natrual harmonics of the barrel. Id rather have a system bult around the piston like the SCAR. More accurate, more reliable.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@datzitteezy its how that filthy 14 was cleaned. it is a hassle compared to cleaning a piston. you dont have to keep that chamber clean. and yes SOME drop in pistons are inaccurate but it mostly realize on the operator.also could be trigger,barrel type, ammo,sight ,etc. but yes the mk16s is sitting on the top of the hill. you should also check out that beretta ARX. people are going to love that rifle. Cant wait what they say about it.
thereal3323 2 months ago
@datzitteezy Drop in piston kits aren't as reliable as a built from the ground up Piston Op ARs, do realize BEFORE the gets the gas has a chance to impinge on the piston the bullet is YARDS downrange? The piston has already impinged on the Op-Rod, Carrier & Key & a new cartridge has been chambered before it could ever have an opportunity to have ANY effects on the barrel harmonics. Thats the kind of statement from someone who doesn't know about piston systems & just read a G.P hater forum.
HungarianLegionnaire 2 months ago
@HungarianLegionnaire LOL!!!!!! Your grammer sucks. "do realize BEFORE the gets the gas"........and your trying to prove a point? You have no idea what your talking about nor do you know what your trying to say. Also I don't hate GP rifles. If you watched the video before getting your tampon pulled you would have heard me say that I wouldn't mind having a GP rifle. Stop taking shit so personal. Watch the video again son and then finish working on your grammer. Then retry your comment. Peace.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@HungarianLegionnaire I want you to think about what your trying to say. Your fingers out typed your brain though lol. The first round fired is the most accurate. So just like said "the next round is chambered.".....If a round is chambered its ready to be fired right? So the barrel is still flexing when pulling the trigger under rapid fire correct?. If the harmonics are off, then guess what those follow up shots will be? Less accurate down range. AND THATS A FACT!! ITS not G.P. hater forum BS.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
I was not into the ar 15 during 2010. But a quality of an item is should be judge not the whole lot. It also depends on the user, gas pistons are great for suppressed weapons (aka a can) along with full auto. Whereas a DI gun is good for shooting at the range and yes it has served well in the military but so did a lot of weapons that just plain ol' sucked. What it really boils down to is what you want, unless the laws say otherwise. Me I am going to get gas piston cause I like it. Peace!!
Alphalug 2 months ago
pistons? what other option is out there for the ar15
istuddd 2 months ago
i just want a system that doesnt jam what ever the conditions might be, clean or dirty .accuracy? my ak74 can do the same as most AR at 200 yard havent tryed longer than that ( not hating on AR) im actually looking to buy my first AR thats why im here
prnydecalle 2 months ago
@prnydecalle nothing wrong with that. the AK is great system. i just like the fact that if need to engage targets out passed 200 yards that i can. If you maintain a AR, run the proper spec parts in it then it will run just like an AK. BCM ARs have been known to run over 61,000 runs being cleaned less than 5 times. That saying something about a good DI gun. they work.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@datzitteezy nice ..thanks for your reply
prnydecalle 2 months ago
The AR piston has too many parts (at least three) that can break - piston, op rod, and impact key (and connecting pin between op rod and piston). This is what Stoner wanted to avoid when he invented the M16. The AK piston and carrier is a one piece fixture (piston screwed into carrier and rivet pinned) which is indestrucable and there is no impact involved (so no parts to chip or break). So if you want a rock solid .223 piston rifle - get a Saiga 223 and convert it. They are very accurate.
noobsmoke79 2 months ago
@noobsmoke79 All the more reason to stick with a rock solid DI AR. Keep it clean and it works.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
The game changes when you dump that shotty drop in system and pick up a PWS mk116, it's built like a tank using a LONG stroke piston. Far superior to Any DI rifle.
TexasDistortion 2 months ago
@TexasDistortion Except in accuracy. PWS is the shit but superior to a DI system? Nope. Accuracy falls all off with piston systems. It may be a great alternative to DI but superior......I doubt it.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
a major problem with the AR or M16 platform is that its to finicky about dirt, where our GI's have been fighting lately in the dust and dirt of mideast, AK's are efficient and rock solid, mostly due to its stamped process, I understand this, some may not, but also because of its piston system keeps it cooler. I like the new Osprey version, used kidney bean shaped piston, to get more surface area, 5 minute mod. due to not having to change out fixed front sight, AK reliability with AR accuracy
l8tr597 2 months ago
@l8tr597 Yeah those osprey systems are nice. I saw a video from someone a while back where the op rod broke on his though.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
Hmmmm.... So why fix what isn't broken? Gas piston works great, but Eugene Stoner nailed it with the DI, it's what the gun is designed for. I'll keep the gas piston in my ak.
Oliverpansoff 2 months ago
@Oliverpansoff No problem with that. This vids about ARs my friend.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
Buy a few critical replacement parts ahead of time for the piston, (which I also do for my DIs.) Both are great systems with a lot to offer.
Again, excellent vid and subject for discussion. Great job!
wjb1231 2 months ago
Endless supply of replacement parts from hundreds of different sources. I strongly believe that this one weak link of non standardized piston parts is what will prevent the piston AR from pulling ahead of the DI system in popularity.
At this point I trust both systems equally. There is a trade off for either. One, lack of easy access to spare parts. The other requiring a little more attention to maintenance. Neither being a big inconvenience. Maintain the DI. Or...
wjb1231 2 months ago
@wjb1231 I agree.
mdouglas1990 2 months ago
Less need for maintenance not requiring regular lubrication to continue to function reliably. Plus as you know, lubricants attract dirt and dust into the action. But pistons require a small amount of lube too so not totally immune to that either.
While I disagree with much of what the author of the magazine article says, I do share the concerns about proprietary parts. This in itself is why I am still a fan of the DI system. It's simple and easy to keep running.
wjb1231 2 months ago
The DI does require a little attention but nothing big really. My only complaint about the DI is being somewhat lubrication dependent. It does require it to keep functioning properly.
In contrast my AA rifle will still have it's lubrication present even after many, many rounds unlike my DIs which eventually burn the lube off and require more oil. Not a big deal really unless you don't have access to more lube. This is where a correctly setup piston rifle shines.
wjb1231 2 months ago
The Adams Arms has been flawless. I prefer it. Not excessively expensive. No tilt. Reliable. Balance and weight almost identical to my Colt 6920s, BCMs, Spikes, Bushmasters, etc. Much cleaner running of course. 1000s of rounds won't get the piston rifles as dirty as just 100 rounds do in my DI rifles.
However, the dirty nature of the DI has never been a problem for me. But I'm not using it like our fine enlisted men either. My DI rifles keep running just like the piston.
wjb1231 2 months ago
datzittezzy, well done vid. I have rifles of both genre. I have to post this long winded response in several repies because of the 500 chacter limit.
A lot of the original complaints about pistons have been addressed. I have a Ruger SR556 and Adams Arms piston. Pinned factory installed gasblock. Neither exhibit any signs of carrier tilt. The Ruger is the early version and is a little heavier and does suffer from the occasional stuck case when using Wolf. Totally reliable with brass case.
wjb1231 2 months ago
Colt and FN both make piston guns based off the M4 platform. I know some people may not like the piston system and I'm not saying change every gun. I'm just saying if a soldier wants a piston system they should have the option, wether they pay for it out of their own pocket or the Army pays.
mdouglas1990 2 months ago
@mdouglas1990 To bad bro. Fact is that they can't choose what they use. Infantry boys are using DI systems nand kicking ass with it. Colt and FN are not making retro fitted systems based on the M4 and they are not issued to any infantry at this or anytime. Thats a fact.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@mdouglas1990 With all that being said. I think compaines like LWRC and Primary Weapon Systems and even the foreign AR makers like HK and Frefrans make awesome piston driven systems and would do just fine on the battlefield. Are they the end all be it answer to the AR/M4 platform? No. Stoner got it right with the DI system. Its proven itself for over 40 years and more users like it than not.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@datzitteezy More soldiers like the DI gun because they haven't had a chance to use a piston gun. Those who have used the FN SCAR and the HK 416 have said they liked it more. Not saying they're all going to like it better, like you said, most like the DI system better. But, to give the most un-biased opinion, they need exposure to both systems.
mdouglas1990 2 months ago
As for the operating rods, if something breaks, there will be extra parts for these rifles in supplies. The army isn't going to issue weapons to troops and leave them with what they have. And I've seen how the gas tubes are installed compared to the pistons, they are just as simple.
mdouglas1990 2 months ago
@mdouglas1990 Not true. they are not as easy to install. It aint hard but not as easy as a gas tube which held in place by the taper pin and barrel nut. You would have to replace the hole gas block to fit a piston system. And also the army would have to pay for all those extra op rods. so your looking at milliions of wasted dollars on a platform that does not need change. The DI system has proven it self over and over again.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
nothing wrong with DI, just keep it wet
HunterKiller308 2 months ago
@HunterKiller308 I agree.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
You should check out this website called The USA's M4 Carbine Controversy. It gives some insight into what soldiers who oppose the DI system think
mdouglas1990 2 months ago
@mdouglas1990 Nice article but the info seems extremly bias. Not something I would rely on as fact. Just a few soliders giving their opinion is all that seemes to be in the article. Maybe they did not take care of there weapons. There are numerous articles out there that state the complete opposite of what these guys are saying. Articles where soldiers said there carbines ran fine with the proper care.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@datzitteezy What defines proper care, cleaning it everyday? Tell a soldier, whose life the upgraded guns possibly saved, and tell them it isn't worth the change. I'm sure they'd have a different opinion.
mdouglas1990 2 months ago
@mdouglas1990 I guess reading the M4 manual would help in defining proper care and I never said it wasn't worth the change. Its exactly what you said it was.....their opinion not mine. there's nothing wrong with piston AR's but not all soldiers are for the change. Fact is.......most of them aren't.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@mdouglas1990 What about the solider who's life was saved by a DI gun. Im pretty sure he feels damn good about his rifle too. LOL
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@datzitteezy I say give the soldier the opinion at least. I really don't see a need to purchase a brand new gun designed from the ground up around a gas piston, a kit would do fine. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper to do it that way. Plus, you could even easily train the soldier using the piston to install it on their rifle, which would help the soldier understand the system more and how it works. So, if something were to go wrong, they would know how to fix it.
mdouglas1990 2 months ago
@mdouglas1990 It would cost more than you think. Op rods would have to go through Mil spec testing (raising cost). Also what happens if an Op rod breaks in combat. Its a moving part that at somepoint will fail. It would be a lot harder to replace the op rod than a gas tube. Trust me you aint gonna find a replacement operating rod in afganistan. Training would also cost money.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@mdouglas1990 What would be even cheaper than retro fitting all rifles with drop in piston kits would be use the proper maintance on the DI guns they already have. Clean it. Thats the cheapest way and they work. Thats what most soldiers are saying. And they already understand the systems that they are using. If something goes wrong with their systems then they already know how to fix it as is. Why force the soldier to change his training?
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@datzitteezy It wouldn't be forcing the soldier, they'd willingly choose to. Besides, the Army has given gas piston guns to infantry, rangers, and special forces and they adapted to the rifles with no problem so retraining wouldn't be an issue.
mdouglas1990 2 months ago
@mdouglas1990 Ahhh Infantry men are issued weapons and not allowed to choose. The army has not given any type of retro fitted piston M4 to any of its infantry or SOP. Rangers were given the SCAR which is a completely different system based on the M4 but not the same. Special forces use the HK416 which is a gun designed around the piston not retro fitted. Where do you get your info from?
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@datzitteezy Thats what I was talking about. Guns based off the M4 platform, not piston systems for them.
mdouglas1990 2 months ago
@mdouglas1990 FACT is that the DI system works fine if you take care of it. Theres nothing wrong with it. If it aint broke don't fix it. Look at the top tier makers of the M4 platform. Colt, BCM, dainel defense and even FN who makes the M16 for the army. they don't make piston M4 or ARs. why? cause there is nothing wrong with the systems on the market today. Pistons are a cool concept and make for a clean AR but just clean a DI and it will work fine. If it aint broke don't fix it.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@mdouglas1990 Also retro fitted systems mess up the natural harmonics of the barrel. The natural flexing of the barrel is impeeded when you clamp the new block and op rod to it. The barrel is not able to flex in the way it was designed. the accuracy will fall off at distance.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
I changed a bushmaster 6.8 to a piston, using the pws brand. cant say that i would do it agin. not that im not satisfide with the results completly. the cost was to high. i could of bought a lwrc for what ive got in the bush conversion. the lwrc a better an way more accurate wepon. im now wanting to sell the bush and buy a m6a2 6.. hope this helps
freeRguns 2 months ago
i got a home built DI -AR when i take it to the rage i shoot at least 500 RD's it runs like a Swiss watch no complaints , BUT if i were to buy a new AR i would get a piston one
why760nitro 2 months ago
Most piston systems have a "stacked" BCG and the return spring is usually in line with the piston. I think piston guns BCG needs to be on steel rails. Striking the BCG issue sheeting strike plate keys off has been fixed by making the strike plate part of the BCG as opposed to attaching like a gas key.
elox02 2 months ago
@mdouglas1990 I don think so either way it's pushing above the center axis in a "floating" BCG. The gas key directs the flow of gas down and through the center axis through the bolt it doesn't push on the top of the BCG.
elox02 2 months ago
I think if the piston was built in or resting on the carrier, it would get a shove like direct impingment. It might help decrease carrier tilt since its pushing against the carrier rather than impacting it.
mdouglas1990 2 months ago
I think piston messes with lock time and is hard in extraction hence ripped rims
elox02 2 months ago
Also saw you wouldn't mind an lwrc. For free i wouldn't either but my buddy paid 2800 after tx lic for his m6 and had two rounds fail to extracted due to the rims being ripped off and a fail to feed ( prob mag related) the first 200 rounds. I'm 4000 in my BCM 14.5" midy with spikes nib m16 BCG & t1 buffer not one problem with wolf,m855, mk318 mod 0, fiocchi .223.
elox02 2 months ago
@datzitteezy 5% of that operator error is also mistreating mags and not checking feed lips
elox02 2 months ago
5% ammo 5% operator error not changing out gas rings or knowing when an extractor needs replacement. The m4 doesnt need a piston if anything better mags(pmags), a mid-length gas system, and 5 coil extractor spring with black insert and o ring and heavier buffers to slow it down a bit(nothing major) reverse engineering the rifle is ridiculous.
elox02 2 months ago
@elox02 Agreed
datzitteezy 2 months ago
90% of m4/16 problems are mag related
elox02 2 months ago
@elox02 the other 10% is ammo related
datzitteezy 2 months ago
You mean to tell me people have become complete pussies over these small issues with gas piston ARs. So what, there is a little weight added and a small decrease in accuracy. You ask anyone in the military, they'll tell you they'd rather have a gun that has a small drop in accuracy and works all the time than a gun thats more accurate and works half the time. WW2 vets had heavier guns and they sucked that shit up and kept moving.
mdouglas1990 2 months ago
@mdouglas1990 Honestly I have a lot of friends and family in the military. They say accuracy is very important. None of my military buddies ever complaind that their guns working half the time either. Most said that their M16 or M4 ran flawless and the others had mag feeding issues other than that.....nothing. WW2 vets carried less equipment compared to what guys are carrying today. There was a trade off. As soilders carried more the lighter their guns got.
datzitteezy 2 months ago
@datzitteezy I swear thats all I ever hear is that there guns fuck up on them.
mdouglas1990 2 months ago