4" tall apples? What kind of fertilizers do they use in equestria? I've never seen an apple much larger than about 3", and most are somewhere between 2.5" - 3" tall, making 18 of them the perfect size for a cello, not a bass.
But you have to understand that there are different sizes of cellos and double basses. Unless we are under the assumption that we are using full-sized instruments, there is no way to tell. But the pegs (used for tuning the instrument) are similar to that of a cello, while the overall shape of the instrument's body resembles a bass, more or less.
@Jctankk being that i play both instruments, i like to to agree to that the pegs are similar to that of a cello, but the most likely did that due to most six year old's don't know the difference in the pegs or the bass (to be more clear most dont even know what a bass is)
but the shape is indeed the one of a bass due to it has a fatter bottom then the top on the body of the instrument where on a cello the bottom and the top parts are close to the same size
If you look at the neck, it looks more like a cello. Plus the tuning pegs don't really look like those of a bass. However, the bottom of the instrument Octavia plays looks more like a bass.
BUT it could always be a hybrid of the two. The double cello. Yup.
Your maths rely on rather large apples and would make it seem that Octavia is only slightly taller standing than AJ is walking.
Then consider the inconsistency of proportions in cartoon animation. While it would be entirely resonable to assume that AJ would be quite tall, when at the same range, they all appear to be almost the same size.
I still just say Cello because I like the word more, and Cellist rolls of the toungue better than Double Bass Player.
My only argument; A regular pony, well, not all of them are the same height. So an average could be used, but her measurements are probably not QUITE exact.
I don`t understand how people still argue about this issue...this video explains it all (in a semi in depth way). Even while sitting down, a double bass` scroll will still extend pass the players head, where as a cello scroll will always be level.
The treble clef cutie mark is obviously a mistake...
Very interesting. I love it when people try to solve little issues in shows. Sometimes the result can change your entire view on the show in general! And this one, I believe, will definitely be of some kind of importance to the fandom. I'm very impressed with the mathmatics involved in the calculations.
@NaiKujib0 It doesn't matter. As long as you can determine an average apple's size, you can estimate the size of the double base.. Your argument is like saying that 50 times two is different from 25 times four.
Perhaps the artists decided to cross the cello with the doghouse. Its details (Head, light color) seem to make it a cello. But it's big enough for her to have to stand up to play it...Or, people read waaaay to much into this show......Nah.
I did the Apple Size analysis again in order to prove you wrong, but it didn't work D:
BUT Octavia's instrument resembles a cello more than a double bass. The top of the body of Octavia's instrument is rounded, like a cello's, rather than slightly pointy like a bass's. And the pegs of Octavia's instrument stick out like a cello's instead of backwards like a bass.
Size = double bass, but shape and appearance = cello. NO CONCLUSION.
The premise is so utterly ridiculous, as is the fact there even is a debate about which instrument a walking Flash-animated pony is playing) But the argument is made with such sincerity that it becomes impossible not to care your self.
This video is a comedic master-piece, and I applaud you good sir.
I love you man. Thanks for clearing it up. @_@ I even showed Octavia to my dad who plays in a jazz/orchestra band in a hotel and says that Octavia clearly plays the double base.
I mean, if it was a cello, it better be one that is built FOR a pony. Everyone says it's a cello, because since humans need to 'sit' while playing it, Octavia has no need to because ponies could be taller than humans while standing. I think they forgot that humans don't exist in Equestria.
This is why I love this fandom. I know NOTHING about music. Now however, I will be able to blag some measure of sophistication by pretending to know the difference between a doghouse bass and a cello.
AND THEY WILL NEVER KNOW I STOLE IT FROM A PONY VIDEO!
Sorry to discount your long look at height and size, but there's a simple way to determine what the instrument is.
Cellos, or violin-cellos, as they're occasionally called, are both part of the 'violin' family. Distinctions of this family are that the body of the instrument goes into the neck at right angles.
Violas and Basses (speaking as a 'doghouse' player) have instrument bodies that curve upwards into the neck, ending parallell.
I think that most of the people who argue over this are players of either cello or doghouse. They all want her to be playing THEIR instrument so that they can relate to her.
I say that she in fact can't play either of those instruments. The instrument is actually a shell to hide an MP3-player and a speaker which she uses to fool people that she can actually play. :]
I find the "measuring height by apples" method to be a bit unreliable. If you were to measure the height of a pony via comparison to other species, like rabbits, cats, birds, or cows, you may end up with a completely different result.
Look at the damned BOW people. you use a different BOW for each instrument. having played both i noticed the differenc in the BOW. while the BOW to a cello is slender and long. a doghouses BOW is short fat and in my opinion ugly. why has nopony adressed that as a factor. BOWS PEOPLE BOWS
Oh btw, you mention compare your height standing on hands and KNEES. That's a bad one there. You see, when a pony stands on all fours, her legs are straight and streched out, while a human would bend his legs in half, so the height difference between "on all fours" and standing human is a lot more signifacnt than it is in the case of a pony.
This won't invalidate the reasoning, just pointing it out.
At least we 100% know it isn't a cello based on the pitches she is playing and how her hoof position doesn't allow those pitches if it IS a cello. I still don't think it is a double bass either though. (Also the bass violin theory is faulty for many reasons) It most closely resembles a Double Bass with some oddball modifications seeing as how it is impossible that it is a cello. In reality it is just a cartoon and the animators sort of drew something.
I just want to mention that a double bass has a "slope", and a cello does not (the double bass' top looks like this when on it's side {, and the cello is more rounded like ( ) the cello's top on one side has one curve like a "(" and the bass has 2 like an "s"... kinda... but notice the slopes on octavia's CELLO and how it has one curve. though the cello may be larger than it should be it is classified as a cello. (i play the cello and my teacher has experience with cello and bass)
Thing is, this argument is based around the assumption that the animators have drawn to perfect scale, which isn't exactly fair (for example, the head of the instrument is drawn far too big). Also, there are subtle differences in the body shape. The top of the body on a Cello is rounded off, akin to a circle, whereas the double bass is more pointed. Additionally, the tuning pegs on a cello are larger and stick out sideways,, whereas a double bass' point backwards.
My counter argument is that it is a cartoon and if the animators want to have a 6' cello in the episode, no one is going to stop them. I mean really, how many things have we seen in the cartoon that broke physics? My belief is that Octavia plays whatever you want to think she plays. (at least until they officially announce it.)
Frankly, the use of apples to determine scale makes this measurement -- already an estimation -- still more indeterminate. So your argument, while valid, lacks the necessary finality to end internet debate.
The heat death of the universe lacks the necessary finality to end internet debate, actually. The debate shall rage on.
She is playing a bass because bass is traditionally played standing and cello is traditionally played sitting down, which is how the animators determined her pose.
While to the untrained eye, a Cello and a Double Bass look similar, there are some very specific design elements that are unique to each instrument:
First: The head. Cellos use friction-held tuning pegs that stick out from both sides of the head, much like a violin. While DBs use geared Machine heads, like a guitar, that sit 90 degrees to the head.
The other thing is the shoulders of the instrument: Cellos have flat shoulders like a violin, whereas DBs have tapered shoulders.
Things COULD be different in equestria though. It wouldn't make any sense for instruments to be the same size as if a human were playing them since as far as we know, humans don't even exist. Though yes, if it is that tall, it does still point to it being a double bass. Still though, it would make sense for instruments to be made to fit ponies rather than people.
I bet the animators just thought "we need a pony playing a tall string instrument, throw something like a cello or double bass in there and we got it sorted". They never would have suspected that their lack of precision when drawing the instrument would cause such a massive online argument.
Well, after changing the instrument name in my fic to cello, I now need to change it back to double bass. lol. I find this as the end to the debate, and can now link this vid if anyone argues. Thank you so much.
I maintain that it is a custom-made (or Equestrian exclusive) combination of the 2. True, it does have the height of a bass and a very bass-shaped headstock -- not to mention the tone of the notes she plays -- it has several Cello-related attributes as well. Specifically, its lighter color, longer peg at the bottom, larger tuning pegs, and overall body shape. It can't be clearly identified, because it isn't uniquely one or the other.
You know horses are measured by hands (4'') right? From hoof to the base of the neck. So I guess the pony measurement is off. But I have never considered this so thank you for the clearing the issue I guess.
STFU, thngs mit B diff in equestria111. But in all seriousness, I can't imagine why you assume equestrian apples are the same as our apples. For all we know, the apples could be a few centimeters high, and Fluttershy could fit in your hand (No, I'm not serious), or the reverse. Also, what species of apple are you using to approximate 1 apple to 4"? LET THE DEBATE CONTINUE!
Thank you for making this! I hope this will settle the issue (not that I have great hopes for it), but if not, there's something else you should look at: instruments that are not full-size. This actually makes the instrument MORE likely to be a bass, since it's clearly too large to be a cello scaled to her body. I just wish Jayson had remained silent on the issue. He specifically said he wasn't sure, but people are still taking his shot in the dark as the gospel truth.
1. She is either playing the highest string or the second highest string based on the video (I can't tell which one).
2. Assuming this is a cello That means she can only be playing notes from D2 extending upward. (Or a C1/G1 depending on if she is bowing the other strings openly)
3. She is playing an F2 and an E2. These notes have to be played on the second highest string based on the situation. F and E would require her hoof to be lower on the board.
@Overkillius I APOLOGIZE! I got my octaves messed up. Just add one to each number and the octaves are now correct. The result is still the same and the way we got to it ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE NOW. Still can't be playing a cello.
You said to compare the height difference from being on our hands and knees to standing erect, but the problem with there is that ponies, when standing normally, are not on their knees. A better comparison for a human would be a 4-point stance. From that, I maintain that a pony standing erect is still too small to play a double bass, and her instrument's appearance is obviously closer to that of a cello's.
Also, we have Jayson Thiessen quoted for saying it's a cello.
is it really so wrong to assume things are different in equestria? i mean the piano keys in the same scene go white, white, black, white, white, black. so from that we can deduce that he is playing no instrument I've ever seen.
upon listening to the pony pokey it would seem the the instrument in question doesn't play any notes lower than C2, the lowest note the cello can play (assuming i'm hearing correctly which i can't promise). So this comment proves nothing.
Most of the Double Basses I've ever played measure closer to 7 feet tall, I've also seen a Cello that was 5' 9" with no endpin, which is adding ~1 apple. You are neglecting, though, that a Cello and Double Bass are, in fact, members of different families of string instruments. The Bass has a slight curve into the finger board, whereas the Cello does not. This instrument does not have this tell-tale curve and is thus a Cello.
Not trying to discount you, I think you have a resounding point there but, I feel the need to say that just because she could very well be playing a "Doghouse" in the episode, it doesn't mean thats the only instrument she plays. She could very well play both.
I say this mostly because people have a tendancy to hook onto one single idea and not accept any variations. I know some who would be outraged to think Octavia could play any other kind of instrument other the one she plaayed in ep 16.
@gskaloyan Well yeah. I agree that it's unlikely that it's the ONLY instrument she plays. It's likely she plays a wider range of instruments. Still, the entirety around her fanon is based on that instrument we see her playing in the episode.
What if we use the mlp toy scale, would it then be the world's smallest violin? Jokes aside, if the animators used both instruments for the music - or used the sound of one instrument, but animated another - would it not come down to magic?
I always have an always will say Doghouse Bass, simply because no matter where I look I has always seen everyone playing the Cello while sitting down while people who play Doghouse would either stand the whole time or be forced to sit in a large stool. There is also the concept of the spike, the spike of the cello (although adjustable for different lengths) is usually fully extended while playing. Also Doghouse basses tops do curl unlike what several people seem to be saying
She is playing a Cello, I played the Cello for 7 years so I think I will reconize one when I see one. Also the easiest way to tell is too look at the top of the body, a Cello's is curved while a Bass's is more like a peak.
I will admit that from what you presented the size is off, but it could just be oversize to allow it to be easily played while standing.
Oh and to anyone bring up it fact Octavia's cutie mark is a Treble Clef let me tell you that the Cello can play all three Clefs.
A Valid argument would be the pegs. At the top of both instruments, the tuning pegs are different between the bass and every other instrument in the bowed string family. The pegs of a cello stick out perpendicular to the head of the cello, whereas the bass has gears, which make it's pegs face parallel to it's head. These pegs are necessary to provide mechanical advantage, as its strings are too large to be tightly tuned by just wrapping it around a peg normally. THEREFORE IT IS A CELLO
Her mark might be a Treble Clef, but if you look at the general shape of her hair from the side, it surprisingly looks like a Bass Clef. In that way, she has both Clefs on her. But Music is Music, and I don't think anyone should read too deeply into the mark, but merely what it's supposed to represent. Music.
Continuing my comment from before because of the dumb 500 character thing... There IS a third option if we want to meet at middle ground: The Bass Cello
The Bass Cello is about the same size as a double Bass (perhaps just a BIT smaller) and has pretty much the exact same shape as the Cello.
The only issue there is that here on Earth anyway, the Bass Cello hasn't been in common use for about 150 years at least... but hey! Maybe things are different in Equestria! lol
Go to Google images and type in Cello. Then Type in Double Bass. There's a part of the instrument that looks distinctly different between the two.
Look at the top of the instrument at the two knobby things (I openly admit I know little about instruments) On the cello they are prominent and large. On the Double Bass they are small if even visible.
Now look at Octavia's instrument. Which one does it just LOOK like more in general with those big damn knobs?
This debate is difficult because the instrument in question shares traits from both a bass and a cello. As you have just proven, it may be the same size as a bass. However, your statement that cellos and basses having the same shape is false. There is an obvious difference at the top of the two instruments: The bass curves up near the fingerboard, while the cello retains a constant curve. Also, to add to the confusion, Octavia's instrument clearly has the pegs of a cello, and not a bass.
Isn't the assumption that instuments are the same size in Equestria a bit odd? For example the piano Spike plays in 'Over a Barrel' is quite small, if I remember correctly. Perhaps comparative sizes of other intruments in relation to their know real-world equivalentswould be an interesting point to discuss.
Well... A way to add more data to this is by comparing the sizes of the other instruments in the show. Are the instruments human sized and used by ponies or are they sized to go along with the size of a pony? Or does that even matter with horses this small in the first place?
How about the cow scale? Judging from AJ's height vs the cows in Applebuck Season, (see img33.imageshack.us/img33/6655/ponysize.jpg) She would be ~2' 4", making it more of a cello.
@LifeSequenceBreak I don't remember him saying so. Also, the character wasn't his design, nor was the music in the background, so I doubt he'd really know or try to claim it.
@LiosRa He didn't. I collect interviews and infos coming from the production team and I can't recall Ingram ever saying it.
Thiessen on the other hand mentioned that he THINKS it's a cello. But in all honesty, I doubt any of the creators had a specific idea, they just wanted to create a stylish BACKGROUND music pony with a classical string instrument, and they did a fine job :)
Counter argument - I do not think it's an excuse that things can be different in Equestria. If we are already putting so much thought into a cartoon, it's logical to assume that a small and intelligent race, like these ponies, have no reason to create instruments fitting for creatures nearly twice their normal on-fours height. (At least instruments that you are supposed to virtually 'hug').
So I do value your points and they are indeed logical, but no, it won't end the debate.
On a more pointed note, strictly speaking size isn't necessarily an indicator of what kind of instrument you're playing, but rather tuning. While tuning certainly constrains the size of the instrument, there can be size overlap. The lowest string on a Cello is generally tuned to C2, while the double bass is usually tuned to E1. So to truly rule out the cello, you would have to show that Octavia plays a note below C2.
@originalph00tbag Now if she doesn't play a note below C2, this doesn't rule out the double bass. That's much harder to make a valid argument for. Ultimtely, to be fully sure in that case, one would have to go off of whether it sounds like a cello or like a double bass.
That said, it's very unorthodox for a cello to get much longer than five feet tall, so you've made a very convincing argument, even if it doesn't say anything absolutely conclusive.
*Touches keyboard*STOP!
101pikapikapika 5 days ago
What about the 8ft candy cane?
PinkamenaDiane 1 month ago
4" tall apples? What kind of fertilizers do they use in equestria? I've never seen an apple much larger than about 3", and most are somewhere between 2.5" - 3" tall, making 18 of them the perfect size for a cello, not a bass.
ScubaLumberjack 1 month ago
Thanks!
snowmanninja2 1 month ago
But you have to understand that there are different sizes of cellos and double basses. Unless we are under the assumption that we are using full-sized instruments, there is no way to tell. But the pegs (used for tuning the instrument) are similar to that of a cello, while the overall shape of the instrument's body resembles a bass, more or less.
Jctankk 1 month ago
@Jctankk
A cello size is as follows:
Body Length
1/8 size - 17.75 to 20 inches
1/4 size - 20 to 23 inches
1/2 size - 23 to 26 inches
3/4 size - 26 to 27.25 inches
4/4 size - 30 inches and above
BrainMud 1 month ago
@Jctankk being that i play both instruments, i like to to agree to that the pegs are similar to that of a cello, but the most likely did that due to most six year old's don't know the difference in the pegs or the bass (to be more clear most dont even know what a bass is)
but the shape is indeed the one of a bass due to it has a fatter bottom then the top on the body of the instrument where on a cello the bottom and the top parts are close to the same size
deathfire365 4 weeks ago
Oh my jezus... i love this fandom
BlinkyBillthekoala 1 month ago
Valid argument: "cello" sounds a lot snootier than "doghouse". ^_^
MarianLH 2 months ago
Everyone's missing the most important question.
Why do you sound like a younger LittleKuriboh
TheVercci 2 months ago
If you look at the neck, it looks more like a cello. Plus the tuning pegs don't really look like those of a bass. However, the bottom of the instrument Octavia plays looks more like a bass.
BUT it could always be a hybrid of the two. The double cello. Yup.
Randomizationable 2 months ago
Seems it was a cello.
equestriadaily[dot]com/2011/12/sweet-and-elite-episode-followup.html
Flumong 2 months ago
And now you are completely wrong and it is confirmed to be a cello.
RaccoonBL 2 months ago
Assuming that AJ and Octavia are the same size, this could very well be correct. But those apples could be larger or smaller than an average apple.
At the end of the day, my PERSONAL OPINION is that it's a cello, the body is simply more similar to a cello in my eyes.
At the end of the day, it's a TV show and it doesn't really matter.
UrieHusky 3 months ago
Your maths rely on rather large apples and would make it seem that Octavia is only slightly taller standing than AJ is walking.
Then consider the inconsistency of proportions in cartoon animation. While it would be entirely resonable to assume that AJ would be quite tall, when at the same range, they all appear to be almost the same size.
I still just say Cello because I like the word more, and Cellist rolls of the toungue better than Double Bass Player.
AgentTasmania 3 months ago
I am fucking impressed.
My only argument; A regular pony, well, not all of them are the same height. So an average could be used, but her measurements are probably not QUITE exact.
Still. Bravo.
MyLittleImperator 3 months ago
I don`t understand how people still argue about this issue...this video explains it all (in a semi in depth way). Even while sitting down, a double bass` scroll will still extend pass the players head, where as a cello scroll will always be level.
The treble clef cutie mark is obviously a mistake...
MaximumPony 4 months ago
Very interesting. I love it when people try to solve little issues in shows. Sometimes the result can change your entire view on the show in general! And this one, I believe, will definitely be of some kind of importance to the fandom. I'm very impressed with the mathmatics involved in the calculations.
Kalebfenoir 4 months ago
I don't think it;s a cello. When pinkie grabs the bow and forces Octavia to play the instrument; it sounds nothing a cello strummed randomly.
donotreply1000 4 months ago
I have found a loophole in the apple math. Organic apples are much smaller than conventional apples. Therefore the measurements would be off.
(This is just me personally, but I don't see Applejack spraying pesticides on her precious apple trees)
NaiKujib0 4 months ago
@NaiKujib0 It doesn't matter. As long as you can determine an average apple's size, you can estimate the size of the double base.. Your argument is like saying that 50 times two is different from 25 times four.
Gurgleschlortz 3 months ago
You have a lot of time on your hands.
Not that that's a bad thing. It's good to use mathematics to an advantage.
hotelmario510 4 months ago
I still say she plays a viol.
kefkaexdeath 4 months ago
Wait, people were actually raging over which instrument a background pony in a cartoon is playing?
wtf internet
Gotmilk0112 4 months ago
Perhaps the artists decided to cross the cello with the doghouse. Its details (Head, light color) seem to make it a cello. But it's big enough for her to have to stand up to play it...Or, people read waaaay to much into this show......Nah.
TheImperfectTheory 5 months ago in playlist More videos from LiosRa
MMMMMBUHBYE
gmc5626 5 months ago
bahahaha well ... this can be a cello adapted for ponies... who knows...
victorholiguti 5 months ago
you're all wrong. Ponies, with their hooves, can not play a stringed instrument.
nilvlrod 5 months ago
this...was...epic...
0sheldm 5 months ago
That's a weird looking kitchen knife...
Aircalibur421 5 months ago
Is it weird that I read "addressing an issue" in the Epic Rap Battle voice?
lalala300 5 months ago in playlist More videos from LiosRa
I did the Apple Size analysis again in order to prove you wrong, but it didn't work D:
BUT Octavia's instrument resembles a cello more than a double bass. The top of the body of Octavia's instrument is rounded, like a cello's, rather than slightly pointy like a bass's. And the pegs of Octavia's instrument stick out like a cello's instead of backwards like a bass.
Size = double bass, but shape and appearance = cello. NO CONCLUSION.
Violas are better anyways ;)
earthvailo 5 months ago in playlist More videos from LiosRa
I love this video, so very, very much.
The premise is so utterly ridiculous, as is the fact there even is a debate about which instrument a walking Flash-animated pony is playing) But the argument is made with such sincerity that it becomes impossible not to care your self.
This video is a comedic master-piece, and I applaud you good sir.
pikemand1410 5 months ago in playlist Flere videoer fra LiosRa
I love you man. Thanks for clearing it up. @_@ I even showed Octavia to my dad who plays in a jazz/orchestra band in a hotel and says that Octavia clearly plays the double base.
I mean, if it was a cello, it better be one that is built FOR a pony. Everyone says it's a cello, because since humans need to 'sit' while playing it, Octavia has no need to because ponies could be taller than humans while standing. I think they forgot that humans don't exist in Equestria.
VanillaAnimations 5 months ago
This is why I love this fandom. I know NOTHING about music. Now however, I will be able to blag some measure of sophistication by pretending to know the difference between a doghouse bass and a cello.
AND THEY WILL NEVER KNOW I STOLE IT FROM A PONY VIDEO!
Philweasel 5 months ago
The pegs, and the sharp curves, cello ,thats it.
RegularAussieBrony 5 months ago
you measure height in apples therefore your argument is invalid...
(I'm kidding)
no arguments here.... infact i don't care...
though i do like the theory of a giant violin
ravensshade 5 months ago
i can't be the only one seeing the truth, right?
She's playing a very elaborate looking, stringed Theremin, with a bow...
She is Very skilled.
andreasfr1 5 months ago
DO know how this thing are made it can height and size can change in body for smaller stuff so use it
ConnorRadcliffe 5 months ago
Dude, your voice...!! You can totally voice this xD
/watch?v=iBaRtIHFeTU
iBringDaLULZ 5 months ago
Sorry to discount your long look at height and size, but there's a simple way to determine what the instrument is.
Cellos, or violin-cellos, as they're occasionally called, are both part of the 'violin' family. Distinctions of this family are that the body of the instrument goes into the neck at right angles.
Violas and Basses (speaking as a 'doghouse' player) have instrument bodies that curve upwards into the neck, ending parallell.
It's a Cello.
Earthenfist 5 months ago
I think that most of the people who argue over this are players of either cello or doghouse. They all want her to be playing THEIR instrument so that they can relate to her.
I say that she in fact can't play either of those instruments. The instrument is actually a shell to hide an MP3-player and a speaker which she uses to fool people that she can actually play. :]
KaptenN 5 months ago
I find the "measuring height by apples" method to be a bit unreliable. If you were to measure the height of a pony via comparison to other species, like rabbits, cats, birds, or cows, you may end up with a completely different result.
ThatAnnoyingKitsune 5 months ago
Ponies are really serious business. And I am NOT being sarcastic.
ramiel1234321 5 months ago
If only you studied this hard in school.
They should should make Ponies101 for school :D
PoopTruffles 5 months ago
awsome, i love complex explanations, altough i never heard of the argument before. and ofc mathematics win again. albeit applejack dont get it.
alek4ever91 5 months ago
Because we all know that MLP is known for it's real world accurate scaling of props.
How about comparing the cello/double bass to the baby grand that's in the same frame as it.
HoShiiJii 5 months ago
well maybe things are different in equestria. (lulz)
SuperNinjateddybear 5 months ago
don't you use your fancy mathematics to muddy the issue.
TheLawnWanderer 5 months ago 4
It's a Doublecellolin
WoodenToaster 5 months ago 3
Look at the damned BOW people. you use a different BOW for each instrument. having played both i noticed the differenc in the BOW. while the BOW to a cello is slender and long. a doghouses BOW is short fat and in my opinion ugly. why has nopony adressed that as a factor. BOWS PEOPLE BOWS
TheSeniorburrito 5 months ago
Nice Try Lio, but just wait for the nightly round up on EqD it will all become clear.
Scrat
TheMightyScraticus 5 months ago
because ponies
hamyo4 5 months ago
Ponies: Serious fucking business
Lanceweilder 5 months ago 34
People being elitist about ponies.
Oh my lol.
MidoriFan10 5 months ago 2
Oh btw, you mention compare your height standing on hands and KNEES. That's a bad one there. You see, when a pony stands on all fours, her legs are straight and streched out, while a human would bend his legs in half, so the height difference between "on all fours" and standing human is a lot more signifacnt than it is in the case of a pony.
This won't invalidate the reasoning, just pointing it out.
Ewyndall 5 months ago
Cello sounds lot better than "Double Bass" and seem more fitting.
RetardedGuitarGuy 5 months ago
lol stfu u dumb, thngs mite be dffrnt in equstria
AdmiralZhao007 5 months ago 14
At least we 100% know it isn't a cello based on the pitches she is playing and how her hoof position doesn't allow those pitches if it IS a cello. I still don't think it is a double bass either though. (Also the bass violin theory is faulty for many reasons) It most closely resembles a Double Bass with some oddball modifications seeing as how it is impossible that it is a cello. In reality it is just a cartoon and the animators sort of drew something.
Overkillius 5 months ago
I just want to mention that a double bass has a "slope", and a cello does not (the double bass' top looks like this when on it's side {, and the cello is more rounded like ( ) the cello's top on one side has one curve like a "(" and the bass has 2 like an "s"... kinda... but notice the slopes on octavia's CELLO and how it has one curve. though the cello may be larger than it should be it is classified as a cello. (i play the cello and my teacher has experience with cello and bass)
silas123781 5 months ago
Has anypony ever told you that you sound a LOT like the VERY MANLY Dan Greene? Just curious...
And THANK YOU SO MUCH for doing this!
zidanewaterflower 5 months ago
Thing is, this argument is based around the assumption that the animators have drawn to perfect scale, which isn't exactly fair (for example, the head of the instrument is drawn far too big). Also, there are subtle differences in the body shape. The top of the body on a Cello is rounded off, akin to a circle, whereas the double bass is more pointed. Additionally, the tuning pegs on a cello are larger and stick out sideways,, whereas a double bass' point backwards.
Tl;dr It's a Cello
Rksimmons 5 months ago
lol stfu u dumb, thngs mite be dffrnt in equestria
kalivodaanda 5 months ago 4
My counter argument is that it is a cartoon and if the animators want to have a 6' cello in the episode, no one is going to stop them. I mean really, how many things have we seen in the cartoon that broke physics? My belief is that Octavia plays whatever you want to think she plays. (at least until they officially announce it.)
soulstrikebk 5 months ago
Frankly, the use of apples to determine scale makes this measurement -- already an estimation -- still more indeterminate. So your argument, while valid, lacks the necessary finality to end internet debate.
The heat death of the universe lacks the necessary finality to end internet debate, actually. The debate shall rage on.
She is playing a bass because bass is traditionally played standing and cello is traditionally played sitting down, which is how the animators determined her pose.
BlackWolfe 5 months ago
While to the untrained eye, a Cello and a Double Bass look similar, there are some very specific design elements that are unique to each instrument:
First: The head. Cellos use friction-held tuning pegs that stick out from both sides of the head, much like a violin. While DBs use geared Machine heads, like a guitar, that sit 90 degrees to the head.
The other thing is the shoulders of the instrument: Cellos have flat shoulders like a violin, whereas DBs have tapered shoulders.
CJTheReal 5 months ago
Things COULD be different in equestria though. It wouldn't make any sense for instruments to be the same size as if a human were playing them since as far as we know, humans don't even exist. Though yes, if it is that tall, it does still point to it being a double bass. Still though, it would make sense for instruments to be made to fit ponies rather than people.
RasrapSmurf 5 months ago
I bet the animators just thought "we need a pony playing a tall string instrument, throw something like a cello or double bass in there and we got it sorted". They never would have suspected that their lack of precision when drawing the instrument would cause such a massive online argument.
lankygit101 5 months ago
I think the animators just do this sort of thing just to screw with us.
Ignout 5 months ago
Well, you've convinced me.
ActionScripter9109 5 months ago
Well, after changing the instrument name in my fic to cello, I now need to change it back to double bass. lol. I find this as the end to the debate, and can now link this vid if anyone argues. Thank you so much.
WarhunterT71 5 months ago
I maintain that it is a custom-made (or Equestrian exclusive) combination of the 2. True, it does have the height of a bass and a very bass-shaped headstock -- not to mention the tone of the notes she plays -- it has several Cello-related attributes as well. Specifically, its lighter color, longer peg at the bottom, larger tuning pegs, and overall body shape. It can't be clearly identified, because it isn't uniquely one or the other.
jacobpotter 5 months ago
3:01 your arguement has been rendered invalid
WalrusFever 5 months ago
Is there any double bass performance that does both plucking and use the bow? (no, not at the same time! XD yknow what I mean)
jongyon7192p 5 months ago
You seem to have Cello tuning pegs on your "double bass"
ASecretToEveryone 5 months ago
Thank Celestia you made this video!!! You explained all the reasons I had to argue in favor of the double-bass, but in a coherent way!
Rainbow Dash salutes you
pacheco410222 5 months ago
You know horses are measured by hands (4'') right? From hoof to the base of the neck. So I guess the pony measurement is off. But I have never considered this so thank you for the clearing the issue I guess.
Ronvarone 5 months ago
Don't you use yer fancy mathematics to muddy the issue!
DMtactical 5 months ago 19
STFU, thngs mit B diff in equestria111. But in all seriousness, I can't imagine why you assume equestrian apples are the same as our apples. For all we know, the apples could be a few centimeters high, and Fluttershy could fit in your hand (No, I'm not serious), or the reverse. Also, what species of apple are you using to approximate 1 apple to 4"? LET THE DEBATE CONTINUE!
JimmyWalters1 5 months ago
Thank you for making this! I hope this will settle the issue (not that I have great hopes for it), but if not, there's something else you should look at: instruments that are not full-size. This actually makes the instrument MORE likely to be a bass, since it's clearly too large to be a cello scaled to her body. I just wish Jayson had remained silent on the issue. He specifically said he wasn't sure, but people are still taking his shot in the dark as the gospel truth.
PerfectlyGenericUser 5 months ago
It could also be something in an animated show that can't be named.
Like when you watch Transformers, and you see a car in the background, you don't argue that it's a Ferrari, or a Lamborghini, it's a car. Just a car.
BronyChris 5 months ago
1. She is either playing the highest string or the second highest string based on the video (I can't tell which one).
2. Assuming this is a cello That means she can only be playing notes from D2 extending upward. (Or a C1/G1 depending on if she is bowing the other strings openly)
3. She is playing an F2 and an E2. These notes have to be played on the second highest string based on the situation. F and E would require her hoof to be lower on the board.
She isn't playing a Cello. It is impossible.
Overkillius 5 months ago
@Overkillius I APOLOGIZE! I got my octaves messed up. Just add one to each number and the octaves are now correct. The result is still the same and the way we got to it ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE NOW. Still can't be playing a cello.
Overkillius 5 months ago
You said to compare the height difference from being on our hands and knees to standing erect, but the problem with there is that ponies, when standing normally, are not on their knees. A better comparison for a human would be a 4-point stance. From that, I maintain that a pony standing erect is still too small to play a double bass, and her instrument's appearance is obviously closer to that of a cello's.
Also, we have Jayson Thiessen quoted for saying it's a cello.
elk832 5 months ago
is it really so wrong to assume things are different in equestria? i mean the piano keys in the same scene go white, white, black, white, white, black. so from that we can deduce that he is playing no instrument I've ever seen.
samdaman517 5 months ago
your all wrong. she plays the banjo.
randomperson2634 5 months ago 95
@randomperson2634 Then why is it nothing like the banjo Pinkie has in Swarm of the Century?
LAWYERED!
CharginChuck 5 months ago
Comment removed
AdmiralZhao007 5 months ago
@randomperson2634 KAZOOIE
GiromCalica 5 months ago
@randomperson2634 *Insert Spiral Mountain Theme Here*
ivan2294 5 months ago
upon listening to the pony pokey it would seem the the instrument in question doesn't play any notes lower than C2, the lowest note the cello can play (assuming i'm hearing correctly which i can't promise). So this comment proves nothing.
That is all i suppose...
samdaman517 5 months ago
Most of the Double Basses I've ever played measure closer to 7 feet tall, I've also seen a Cello that was 5' 9" with no endpin, which is adding ~1 apple. You are neglecting, though, that a Cello and Double Bass are, in fact, members of different families of string instruments. The Bass has a slight curve into the finger board, whereas the Cello does not. This instrument does not have this tell-tale curve and is thus a Cello.
TurtleManXD 5 months ago
Not trying to discount you, I think you have a resounding point there but, I feel the need to say that just because she could very well be playing a "Doghouse" in the episode, it doesn't mean thats the only instrument she plays. She could very well play both.
I say this mostly because people have a tendancy to hook onto one single idea and not accept any variations. I know some who would be outraged to think Octavia could play any other kind of instrument other the one she plaayed in ep 16.
gskaloyan 5 months ago 5
@gskaloyan Well yeah. I agree that it's unlikely that it's the ONLY instrument she plays. It's likely she plays a wider range of instruments. Still, the entirety around her fanon is based on that instrument we see her playing in the episode.
LiosRa 5 months ago 8
Its a cello. The tuning pegs come out sideways and it has a peg at the bottom.
tanmanknex 5 months ago
What if we use the mlp toy scale, would it then be the world's smallest violin? Jokes aside, if the animators used both instruments for the music - or used the sound of one instrument, but animated another - would it not come down to magic?
RatTheFearful 5 months ago
I always have an always will say Doghouse Bass, simply because no matter where I look I has always seen everyone playing the Cello while sitting down while people who play Doghouse would either stand the whole time or be forced to sit in a large stool. There is also the concept of the spike, the spike of the cello (although adjustable for different lengths) is usually fully extended while playing. Also Doghouse basses tops do curl unlike what several people seem to be saying
TheRougeStallion 5 months ago
She is playing a Cello, I played the Cello for 7 years so I think I will reconize one when I see one. Also the easiest way to tell is too look at the top of the body, a Cello's is curved while a Bass's is more like a peak.
I will admit that from what you presented the size is off, but it could just be oversize to allow it to be easily played while standing.
Oh and to anyone bring up it fact Octavia's cutie mark is a Treble Clef let me tell you that the Cello can play all three Clefs.
arcticstorm058 5 months ago
If you look closely the instrument is closer to a cello in two ways.
1) The upper bout of a double bass curves into the neck, but the on the Cello it does not.
2) The tail spike is longer on a Cello than on a double bass to make up for it's size allowing someone to hold it up easier.
So in my opinion its a Cello.
DesertStar27 5 months ago
I say look at the tuning pegs and the shape of the soundbox tends to learn towards the cello more. Also apples=10cm is an assumption.
Very impressed at your knowledge of the two instruments though and I still say it's a cello.
314isuBerTasty 5 months ago
A Valid argument would be the pegs. At the top of both instruments, the tuning pegs are different between the bass and every other instrument in the bowed string family. The pegs of a cello stick out perpendicular to the head of the cello, whereas the bass has gears, which make it's pegs face parallel to it's head. These pegs are necessary to provide mechanical advantage, as its strings are too large to be tightly tuned by just wrapping it around a peg normally. THEREFORE IT IS A CELLO
ndu192 5 months ago
@ndu192 I keep telling you guys it's a hybrid.
inukirby992 5 months ago
Am I the only only one that considered the endpin? Also, lol stfu u dumb. thngs mite be dffrnt in equstria.
pikapoo25 5 months ago
IT'S A HYBRID!
The only logical conclusion.
inukirby992 5 months ago
Her cutie mark is a Treble Clef, which is most commonly played by the Violin, and very rarely played by the Cello or Double Bass.
Therefor, she is actually playing a 6 foot tall violin.
ffdood1 5 months ago 135
@ffdood1 Maybe ponies play the Treble Clef with the Cello/Double Bass.
*Shrugs*
inukirby992 5 months ago
@ffdood1
Her mark might be a Treble Clef, but if you look at the general shape of her hair from the side, it surprisingly looks like a Bass Clef. In that way, she has both Clefs on her. But Music is Music, and I don't think anyone should read too deeply into the mark, but merely what it's supposed to represent. Music.
Kalebfenoir 4 months ago
So much science! Er, technically no science. Still, pretty crazy
inivonwini 5 months ago
Continuing my comment from before because of the dumb 500 character thing... There IS a third option if we want to meet at middle ground: The Bass Cello
The Bass Cello is about the same size as a double Bass (perhaps just a BIT smaller) and has pretty much the exact same shape as the Cello.
The only issue there is that here on Earth anyway, the Bass Cello hasn't been in common use for about 150 years at least... but hey! Maybe things are different in Equestria! lol
WilliamTheMuddy 5 months ago
Actually? I do have a valid counterpoint.
Go to Google images and type in Cello. Then Type in Double Bass. There's a part of the instrument that looks distinctly different between the two.
Look at the top of the instrument at the two knobby things (I openly admit I know little about instruments) On the cello they are prominent and large. On the Double Bass they are small if even visible.
Now look at Octavia's instrument. Which one does it just LOOK like more in general with those big damn knobs?
WilliamTheMuddy 5 months ago
This debate is difficult because the instrument in question shares traits from both a bass and a cello. As you have just proven, it may be the same size as a bass. However, your statement that cellos and basses having the same shape is false. There is an obvious difference at the top of the two instruments: The bass curves up near the fingerboard, while the cello retains a constant curve. Also, to add to the confusion, Octavia's instrument clearly has the pegs of a cello, and not a bass.
Diska12 5 months ago
Isn't the assumption that instuments are the same size in Equestria a bit odd? For example the piano Spike plays in 'Over a Barrel' is quite small, if I remember correctly. Perhaps comparative sizes of other intruments in relation to their know real-world equivalentswould be an interesting point to discuss.
Anyway I vote Giant (apparently) Cello.
fayers189 5 months ago
@fayers189 Pianos can be small. Hence the toy piano for children.
inukirby992 5 months ago
Cello's are cooler :D
no I'm just kidding, I just like the sound of Octavia playing a cello
crayon151 5 months ago
Comment removed
Diska12 5 months ago
Glorious...
Threvlin 5 months ago
Well... A way to add more data to this is by comparing the sizes of the other instruments in the show. Are the instruments human sized and used by ponies or are they sized to go along with the size of a pony? Or does that even matter with horses this small in the first place?
SpecterVonBaren 5 months ago
nicely done good brony \(^ώ^)/
Wing0002 5 months ago
Bass: Where the body curves up when it meets the finger board. Tuning pegs function with a worm gear and are facing downward.
Cello: What is animated (except size apparently).
SkylarkBrony 5 months ago
lol stfu u dumb, thngs mite be dffrnt in equstria
but really you did solve this
Mapleopian 5 months ago
How about the cow scale? Judging from AJ's height vs the cows in Applebuck Season, (see img33.imageshack.us/img33/6655/ponysize.jpg) She would be ~2' 4", making it more of a cello.
CountryKid1010 5 months ago
Question: Is "Magic" a valid argument?
MetalGearSamus 5 months ago
no, this is patrick.
KhaledAlAsad 5 months ago
What's the song that plays at 1:17 in the video? I've heard it from somewhere!!
Madrider760 5 months ago
Didn't Daniel Ingram himself say that she was playing a Cello?
LifeSequenceBreak 5 months ago
@LifeSequenceBreak I don't remember him saying so. Also, the character wasn't his design, nor was the music in the background, so I doubt he'd really know or try to claim it.
LiosRa 5 months ago 4
@LiosRa He didn't. I collect interviews and infos coming from the production team and I can't recall Ingram ever saying it.
Thiessen on the other hand mentioned that he THINKS it's a cello. But in all honesty, I doubt any of the creators had a specific idea, they just wanted to create a stylish BACKGROUND music pony with a classical string instrument, and they did a fine job :)
Ewyndall 5 months ago
Counter argument - I do not think it's an excuse that things can be different in Equestria. If we are already putting so much thought into a cartoon, it's logical to assume that a small and intelligent race, like these ponies, have no reason to create instruments fitting for creatures nearly twice their normal on-fours height. (At least instruments that you are supposed to virtually 'hug').
So I do value your points and they are indeed logical, but no, it won't end the debate.
Ewyndall 5 months ago
@LifeSequenceBreak Oh hi LSB. Haven't seen you in forever.
RaZor921 5 months ago
@RaZor921 Hey!
RL is a bitch ;D
LifeSequenceBreak 5 months ago
Jayson Thiessen said he thinks it's a cello.
On a more pointed note, strictly speaking size isn't necessarily an indicator of what kind of instrument you're playing, but rather tuning. While tuning certainly constrains the size of the instrument, there can be size overlap. The lowest string on a Cello is generally tuned to C2, while the double bass is usually tuned to E1. So to truly rule out the cello, you would have to show that Octavia plays a note below C2.
originalph00tbag 5 months ago
@originalph00tbag Now if she doesn't play a note below C2, this doesn't rule out the double bass. That's much harder to make a valid argument for. Ultimtely, to be fully sure in that case, one would have to go off of whether it sounds like a cello or like a double bass.
That said, it's very unorthodox for a cello to get much longer than five feet tall, so you've made a very convincing argument, even if it doesn't say anything absolutely conclusive.
originalph00tbag 5 months ago
Solving problems with SCIENCE
Falkenad108 5 months ago
FIRST!
RaZor921 5 months ago