Xtians honestly in this day and age don't still believe Isaiah 7 is about Jesus do they?
It only requires a simple reading of the entire chapter to clearly see that the prophecy has nothing to do with him. Even on top of that the prophecy is clearly fulfilled in II Kings 15-16 & 2 Chronicles 28.
And in no where in the chapter does it say "Virgin" (בְּתוּלָה) it say Young woman / maiden (עַלְמָה)
If you are going to quote the word of G-d spoken through the Prophets please dont change it.
It was the JEWS who translated it as virgin originally not the Christians. The Old Testament used by the first century Jews during that time period was the Septuagint which was the Greek Translation of the Old Testament which predates Christ. It had the word rendered as "virgin". So if you have a problem with it then your issue is not with Christians but your own Jewish scholars who translated it that way (and it was translated by 70 of the best Jewish scholars at that time)
4) Not one version of Sepher Yeshayahu is the word "בְּתוּלָה" found in chapter 7. Since Yeshayahu (PBUH) wrote in Hebrew and not greek its kinda important.
5) Even if it does in fact say Virgin it still doesn't solve the problem that its referring to both a king of Yisra'el and a king of 'Aram fighting at war with the King of Yehudha.
so.. this applies to JC how?
6) The prophesy was fulfilled in II Kings15-16& 2 Chronicles 28 around 730 BCE. Thats 730 years before JC was born.
The Catholic Church is the new Pharisees. Its not the whore of babylon, and the pope is not the antichrist, but it is a legalistic political structure that puts stumbling blocks before the believers. All a Christian needs is the Holy Scripture, and to confess with our mouths that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and none can come to the Father but through the Son. Protestants have no right to hurl stones at Catholics however, we need to love each other, and defend each other from the true enemy.
The Catholic church is run by Masons(Evil cult) that takes secret oaths.
It was involved in Nazi brain washing Hitler was Catholic and worked with the Pope-Historical fact! also the Vatican was signing facist documents with Mussilini (facist leader).
Rome was responsible for the Afican slaves ships-Fact!
Over 300 million deaths including there own Christians.
Yus'hua Christ was a strict vegetarian, The Holy twelve lection 38 confirms this!
@ANDROID697 Wow, if you knew anything about you would see the Catholic Church condemned Freemasonry and excoummunicated for the practice. "The Gospel of the Holy Twelve" is not a Biblical book, it is found in no canon. And I see you call him "Yus'hua", well you should know that the New Testament written in greek and in greek His name is "Iesous", which translates to "Jesus". So it's okay to call him that btw.
Since many don't believe in Christ Jesus our Lord. One might reference Jewish historian Josephus (-c 100 C.E.), Justin Martyr (100165 C.E.), and Roman man historians Suetonius (c. 69-140 C.E.), Tacitus (55 C.E.). Additionally, the Holy scriptures provide rich details in way of dates, places, and names of local rulers, etc., - Luke 2:1-52
The New Bible Dictionary thus comments: It would appear that Jews frequently united to pay the Temple tax in pairs.Any individual who wanted to pay the tax for just one person was liable for an agio, a fee for changing money as high as 8%. However, those who paid for 2 people at the same time were exempt. So even in this minor detail, the account agrees with what is known about common practices in Jesus time.
Mat 17:24-27.Many scholars believe that the stater coin mentioned here was, in fact, the tetradrachma. This coin was worth four drachmas, or the equivalent of the temple tax for two persons. The tetradrachma was far more common and more readily available than the didrachma.
You might like this reference: Alfred Edersheim located 456 passages to which the ancient Synagogue referred as Messianic, and there were 558 references in the most ancient rabbinic writings supporting such applications. (The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, 1906, Vol. I, p. 163; Vol. II, pp. 710-737) e.g, Genesis 49:10 The Targum of Onkelos, the Jerusalem Targums, and the Midrash all recognize the expression Shiloh as applying to the Messiah.
A catholic church full of human traditions.with your idols, the Second and the 4th commandments.?The worshiping through human made saints.?,Mother mary,haa?,preach the true Jesus. the Lord of the Sabath.
Obviously you're happy in your blindness; so I'll leave you to it. I just pray that God opens your eyes before it's too late. On judgment day though, you won't be able to point at me and say that I never tried to tell you. I've done my part to try to open your eyes. God gives us free choice though to believe what we want to believe. Far be it from me to try to take that free choice away from you when God has granted it to everyone. He will still hold you responsible though for what you believe.
At 3:15 into the video it sounds like you're saying that "the Catholic church is this New Covenant. church" What? The Catholic church teaches doctrine that is totally against scripture!! How can you say that the Catholic church is the New Covenant church? You definitely have it right that Jesus is the Messiah; but the Catholic church couldn't possibly be the New Covenant church. In fact, some even interpret scripture as saying that a future pope will be the antichrist! Read your Bible! :-(
I watched your second video where you present "clear biblical evidence" and you are totally blinded to the truth which is exactly where Satan wants you to be. I left comments on that video and on your main wall as well. Challenge yourself to look further than what the **Catholic church** is telling you. Satan is a great deceiver. The Bible says he roams to and fro on the earth seeking who he might devour and destroy. Don't be one of the ones he scoops up for lunch. Look at Jack Chick's site.
@12345hispanics I consider myself to be Hebraic Christian, meaning that I believe that the Torah is still just as valid now as it was during Biblical times. (Matt 5:17-19) (Luke 16:16-17). We can't be legalistic though or we are placed under it again. (Gal 5) God's ways are that of true peace and Torah (when followed properly - without legalism) helps us to safeguard our hearts and minds and keep us focused on God's Truth. Torah is also prophetic, so it helps us to be aware of things to come.
@12345hispanics Check out Jack Chick's website and there are some videos on here about his stuff as well. There are also videos on here from other people about the possibility of the future pope being the antichrist. You can see some of them in my playlist "End Times - red flags". I'm not saying it's true. I'm just saying that it gives us something to think about and to keep our eyes open for. The Bible never fully identifies the antichrist. It's held a secret until God's timing is right.
1 samuel 6:19 And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.
deuteronomy 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
Exodus 23:24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Religious addict is the #1 problem facing the human race all around the world. Thanks to the Internet, we can start to heal the damage done today, and over the centuries by fear mongering and 'divide & conquer' type thinking AND actions.
You say that the new covenant was the Catholic church. How do you substantiate that claim. What was the church before 312ad? Isn't the new covenant through Jesus? What does a pagan, idolatrous church have to do with the new covenant. How can you equate the teaching of the Catholic church with the teachings of Jesus? They are not the same teachings.
if you read the writings of the early church fathers you will see that all the teachings of the church were there before 312 Ad. Ignatius of Antioch and Justin Martyr (2nd century) all believed catholic teaching reguarding the Eucharist. Ireneus (also 2nd century) beleived that mary was the new eve and the concept of co-redemptix.
So the claim that the church got "Paganized" in the 4th century is rediculous since all of these beleifs which anticatholics consider "pagan" were well in place before the 4th century and were even handed down by the apostles themselves according to many of the early church fathers.
also, if you beleive that the catholic church became "pagan" in the 4th century, can you please explain why you accept the canon of scriptrue which was established in the 4th century? Why do you accept the canon of scripture for a church which you beleive is "pagan"
As MB13 pointed out on another video, you misuse the word "catholic" on the early church. RCC has one actual source and that is Constantine. The RCC started pagan because of him.
Any church can claim this doctrine or that doctrine from the early church; it's the doctrine that follows with the teaching of Jesus that matter.
As for what is canon, I do not accept everything in the NT as canon; the teaching of Paul for example.
1) again, your assertion that the church began with constantine is erroneous because even back in the 2nd century, Ignatius of Antioch and many other writers say that the church of rome presides in love over the other churches. Constnatine did not start the church, he only ended the persecution by legalizing it. Also, why don't you accept the teachings o Paul? By what authority do you reject them?
These are prayers that were directed to God, not saints. Probably these are the prayers of the martyrs crying to God to avenge thier blood (Rev. 6:10). Anyway, though they (elders) presented these prayers to God, there is no suggestion that they had any part in answering them. In fact, this makes sense because they are offering them up to God for Him to hear and answer.
it says that the elders in heaven (saints) are offering to God the prayers of thoes christians on earth. How can they offer God the prayers of thoes on earth unless thoes on earth put them in thier possesion?
It does not say that the elders were saints. The elders are offering up the prayers of the saints. The bowls of incense or the vials of odours (depending on which translation you read) are the prayers of the SAINTS, not of general Christians.
the word "saint" means "holy one" and it applies to all who are members of the body of christ, the church. So yes the title saint would apply to both the elders in heaven and the christians on earth. So actaully this is a great example of the saints in heaven (elders) praying for the saints on earth
That's a pretty good explanation of saint, though I don't know that it applies to the elders in heaven. You stated in a comment below that saints offered up prayers of saints, when elders offered up the prayers. The elders are of the court of God and the word saint is not used to describe them in the Biblical text. And how do you answer for the Catholics about their idols?
1) we don't worship idols, rahter we use them in the worship on God. Also you need to look at all the places where God commanded the use of images such as in the building of the temple, he commanded that statues of angels be built. He also commanded that statues of angels be placed on the ark of the covanet. The Jews venerated the ark the same way catholics venerate (not worship) religious images.
2)Every time the OT talks about idols in a negetive light, it is alwasy in the context of WORSHIPING idols as God. Catholics do not do this
3) Back in the OT God had not come in a physical form, so it would have been wrong to make an image of an invisilbe God. But now, Christ, who is the image of the invisible God and in the form of God,, has come. There is nothing wrong with making an image of htat image.
The Jews do not venerate the arc the same way that Catholics use idols. Jews do not pray to the Arc. The reason there are cherubim and the Arc is as you said: God said to put them there. By your own word you say you use idols to worship which is exactly what God said not to do. God call idols detestable and worthless. By the word of God you cannot have idols, but you do! It is an abomination to God.
we do not worhip the images, rather we USE the images in the worship of God. Besides, at the second council of Nicea, it was determined that the use of images in worship did not violate God's commandments.
actaully we dont pray to images either. Logically if one were to see a person praying before a image of jesus christ one would conclude that the person was praying to jesus not to the image.
So why didn't Jesus come to earth and hand out images of himself. Jesus is not an image. He is not a wafer, a baby jesus, or a dead crucified jesus. He rose from the dead and is reigning in heaven. Catholics believe dangerous and erroneous doctrines.
Where does it say that it is okay to make an image of a visible god?
The OT say don't make idols. Whether worshiped or not.
Deu 4:23 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.
in revelation 5:8 we see the saitns in heaven offering up to God the prayers of the saints on earth
"When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones."
the word idolatry means "idol worship." catholics don't worship mary in the sense that we give her adoration. We ask her to pray for us just as we ask our fellow christians to pray for us on earth. and the eastern orthodox also pray to mary and the saints
Infact prayers to the saints was practiced in tyhe very origins of christianity long before protestantism ever existed
The Catholics make idols and pray to them. That is forbidden, not once but several times. Every statue the Catholics make of Jesus or Mary or any saint is an abomination to God. For example: Deuteronomy 4:15-16 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether FORMED LIKE A MAN OR A WOMAN
BS"D
Xtians honestly in this day and age don't still believe Isaiah 7 is about Jesus do they?
It only requires a simple reading of the entire chapter to clearly see that the prophecy has nothing to do with him. Even on top of that the prophecy is clearly fulfilled in II Kings 15-16 & 2 Chronicles 28.
And in no where in the chapter does it say "Virgin" (בְּתוּלָה) it say Young woman / maiden (עַלְמָה)
If you are going to quote the word of G-d spoken through the Prophets please dont change it.
613degrees 2 months ago
It was the JEWS who translated it as virgin originally not the Christians. The Old Testament used by the first century Jews during that time period was the Septuagint which was the Greek Translation of the Old Testament which predates Christ. It had the word rendered as "virgin". So if you have a problem with it then your issue is not with Christians but your own Jewish scholars who translated it that way (and it was translated by 70 of the best Jewish scholars at that time)
OneTrueChurch 2 months ago
@OneTrueChurch
BS"D
This is all completely off. If you knew anything about Hebrew or greek for that matter you would see this. So lets being.
1) The original septuagint written 2,200 years ago is only a translation of The Torah. so there goes your entire argument.
2) The spetugine which you are talking about was created by the church in the 3rd century ad.
3) Even though this is a Xtian work the word they use is "parthenos" which can mean Virgin or Maiden like in Gen 34:2-4 with Dinah.
613degrees 2 months ago
@OneTrueChurch
4) Not one version of Sepher Yeshayahu is the word "בְּתוּלָה" found in chapter 7. Since Yeshayahu (PBUH) wrote in Hebrew and not greek its kinda important.
5) Even if it does in fact say Virgin it still doesn't solve the problem that its referring to both a king of Yisra'el and a king of 'Aram fighting at war with the King of Yehudha.
so.. this applies to JC how?
6) The prophesy was fulfilled in II Kings15-16& 2 Chronicles 28 around 730 BCE. Thats 730 years before JC was born.
613degrees 2 months ago
@OneTrueChurch
7) It was 72 sages ( Tractate megillah 9)
613degrees 2 months ago
The Catholic Church is the new Pharisees. Its not the whore of babylon, and the pope is not the antichrist, but it is a legalistic political structure that puts stumbling blocks before the believers. All a Christian needs is the Holy Scripture, and to confess with our mouths that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and none can come to the Father but through the Son. Protestants have no right to hurl stones at Catholics however, we need to love each other, and defend each other from the true enemy.
particle58 1 year ago
1Timothy 4;10
bob701z 1 year ago
Roman Catholicism is barely Christian, let alone the "one true church".
all66books 1 year ago
The Catholic church is run by Masons(Evil cult) that takes secret oaths.
It was involved in Nazi brain washing Hitler was Catholic and worked with the Pope-Historical fact! also the Vatican was signing facist documents with Mussilini (facist leader).
Rome was responsible for the Afican slaves ships-Fact!
Over 300 million deaths including there own Christians.
Yus'hua Christ was a strict vegetarian, The Holy twelve lection 38 confirms this!
90% so called Christians/Catholic's eat meat!
ANDROID697 2 years ago
@ANDROID697 Wow, if you knew anything about you would see the Catholic Church condemned Freemasonry and excoummunicated for the practice. "The Gospel of the Holy Twelve" is not a Biblical book, it is found in no canon. And I see you call him "Yus'hua", well you should know that the New Testament written in greek and in greek His name is "Iesous", which translates to "Jesus". So it's okay to call him that btw.
DavidVelezPerez 1 year ago
*excommunicated people
DavidVelezPerez 1 year ago
the roman catholic church is the whore that rides the beast
Pasqh 2 years ago
Since many don't believe in Christ Jesus our Lord. One might reference Jewish historian Josephus (-c 100 C.E.), Justin Martyr (100165 C.E.), and Roman man historians Suetonius (c. 69-140 C.E.), Tacitus (55 C.E.). Additionally, the Holy scriptures provide rich details in way of dates, places, and names of local rulers, etc., - Luke 2:1-52
eltigreoso 2 years ago
This shows us evidence a) Jesus was definitey real. b) gospel writers were eyewitnesses.
eltigreoso 2 years ago
The New Bible Dictionary thus comments: It would appear that Jews frequently united to pay the Temple tax in pairs.Any individual who wanted to pay the tax for just one person was liable for an agio, a fee for changing money as high as 8%. However, those who paid for 2 people at the same time were exempt. So even in this minor detail, the account agrees with what is known about common practices in Jesus time.
eltigreoso 2 years ago
Mat 17:24-27.Many scholars believe that the stater coin mentioned here was, in fact, the tetradrachma. This coin was worth four drachmas, or the equivalent of the temple tax for two persons. The tetradrachma was far more common and more readily available than the didrachma.
eltigreoso 2 years ago
Why did Jesus and Peter pay the temple tax with just one coin?
In Jesus day, every Jewish male over 20 yrs of age was required to pay a yearly temple tax of 2 drachmas, or a didrachma.
eltigreoso 2 years ago
You might like this reference: Alfred Edersheim located 456 passages to which the ancient Synagogue referred as Messianic, and there were 558 references in the most ancient rabbinic writings supporting such applications. (The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, 1906, Vol. I, p. 163; Vol. II, pp. 710-737) e.g, Genesis 49:10 The Targum of Onkelos, the Jerusalem Targums, and the Midrash all recognize the expression Shiloh as applying to the Messiah.
eltigreoso 2 years ago
A catholic church full of human traditions.with your idols, the Second and the 4th commandments.?The worshiping through human made saints.?,Mother mary,haa?,preach the true Jesus. the Lord of the Sabath.
kisumudalahera 2 years ago
Wonderful video. A great internet resource to have to reference to friends. God bless you.
OneCatholic 2 years ago
Obviously you're happy in your blindness; so I'll leave you to it. I just pray that God opens your eyes before it's too late. On judgment day though, you won't be able to point at me and say that I never tried to tell you. I've done my part to try to open your eyes. God gives us free choice though to believe what we want to believe. Far be it from me to try to take that free choice away from you when God has granted it to everyone. He will still hold you responsible though for what you believe.
DebiB62 2 years ago
At 3:15 into the video it sounds like you're saying that "the Catholic church is this New Covenant. church" What? The Catholic church teaches doctrine that is totally against scripture!! How can you say that the Catholic church is the New Covenant church? You definitely have it right that Jesus is the Messiah; but the Catholic church couldn't possibly be the New Covenant church. In fact, some even interpret scripture as saying that a future pope will be the antichrist! Read your Bible! :-(
DebiB62 2 years ago
watch my other videos. I present clear biblical evidence that the Catholic church is the only true Church and that its doctrines are true
OneTrueChurch 2 years ago
I watched your second video where you present "clear biblical evidence" and you are totally blinded to the truth which is exactly where Satan wants you to be. I left comments on that video and on your main wall as well. Challenge yourself to look further than what the **Catholic church** is telling you. Satan is a great deceiver. The Bible says he roams to and fro on the earth seeking who he might devour and destroy. Don't be one of the ones he scoops up for lunch. Look at Jack Chick's site.
DebiB62 2 years ago
Jack Chick is an evil lunatic and liar. His tracts are pure garbage and distortion. even many protestants have spoken out against him.
OneTrueChurch 2 years ago
Amen ,are you christian pentecostal
12345hispanics 1 year ago
@12345hispanics I consider myself to be Hebraic Christian, meaning that I believe that the Torah is still just as valid now as it was during Biblical times. (Matt 5:17-19) (Luke 16:16-17). We can't be legalistic though or we are placed under it again. (Gal 5) God's ways are that of true peace and Torah (when followed properly - without legalism) helps us to safeguard our hearts and minds and keep us focused on God's Truth. Torah is also prophetic, so it helps us to be aware of things to come.
DebiB62 1 year ago
amen to all of the things that you said except i never read a part in the bible where it mentions that the pope is the anti christ
12345hispanics 1 year ago
@12345hispanics Check out Jack Chick's website and there are some videos on here about his stuff as well. There are also videos on here from other people about the possibility of the future pope being the antichrist. You can see some of them in my playlist "End Times - red flags". I'm not saying it's true. I'm just saying that it gives us something to think about and to keep our eyes open for. The Bible never fully identifies the antichrist. It's held a secret until God's timing is right.
DebiB62 1 year ago
amen to all of the things that you said except i never read a part in the bible where it mentions that the pope is the anti christ
12345hispanics 1 year ago
are you christian by the way
12345hispanics 1 year ago
1 samuel 6:19 And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.
eggwoman123 2 years ago
deuteronomy 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
eggwoman123 2 years ago
Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
eggwoman123 2 years ago
Exodus 23:24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.
eggwoman123 2 years ago
Beautiful Job. What a blessing you are. thankyou!
mysaviormygod 3 years ago
thank you God Bless
OneTrueChurch 3 years ago
Your a Catholic, my mom is a Catholic, and so far, I, being a Protestant, have never disagreed with you or my mom yet.
virindi73 3 years ago
good videos!
shredder2088 3 years ago
Good Videos!
shredder2088 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yahweh is a thunderhurler just like Zeus, get over it; just like I got over it.
VoiceOfModeration 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Religious addict is the #1 problem facing the human race all around the world. Thanks to the Internet, we can start to heal the damage done today, and over the centuries by fear mongering and 'divide & conquer' type thinking AND actions.
Thunderwunder1 4 years ago
You say that the new covenant was the Catholic church. How do you substantiate that claim. What was the church before 312ad? Isn't the new covenant through Jesus? What does a pagan, idolatrous church have to do with the new covenant. How can you equate the teaching of the Catholic church with the teachings of Jesus? They are not the same teachings.
tzephon 4 years ago
if you read the writings of the early church fathers you will see that all the teachings of the church were there before 312 Ad. Ignatius of Antioch and Justin Martyr (2nd century) all believed catholic teaching reguarding the Eucharist. Ireneus (also 2nd century) beleived that mary was the new eve and the concept of co-redemptix.
OneTrueChurch 4 years ago
So the claim that the church got "Paganized" in the 4th century is rediculous since all of these beleifs which anticatholics consider "pagan" were well in place before the 4th century and were even handed down by the apostles themselves according to many of the early church fathers.
OneTrueChurch 4 years ago
also, if you beleive that the catholic church became "pagan" in the 4th century, can you please explain why you accept the canon of scriptrue which was established in the 4th century? Why do you accept the canon of scripture for a church which you beleive is "pagan"
OneTrueChurch 4 years ago
As MB13 pointed out on another video, you misuse the word "catholic" on the early church. RCC has one actual source and that is Constantine. The RCC started pagan because of him.
Any church can claim this doctrine or that doctrine from the early church; it's the doctrine that follows with the teaching of Jesus that matter.
As for what is canon, I do not accept everything in the NT as canon; the teaching of Paul for example.
tzephon 4 years ago
1) again, your assertion that the church began with constantine is erroneous because even back in the 2nd century, Ignatius of Antioch and many other writers say that the church of rome presides in love over the other churches. Constnatine did not start the church, he only ended the persecution by legalizing it. Also, why don't you accept the teachings o Paul? By what authority do you reject them?
OneTrueChurch 4 years ago
By what authority does Paul teach against what Jesus taught or what God has placed as commandments.
God gave circumcision and the Law. Jesus preached obedience to God and the Law. Paul tried to turn the Jews away from the Law.
Who is right: Paul, Jesus, or God. I tell you that only Jesus and God are in harmony with what they say.
Who will you follow?
tzephon 4 years ago
These are prayers that were directed to God, not saints. Probably these are the prayers of the martyrs crying to God to avenge thier blood (Rev. 6:10). Anyway, though they (elders) presented these prayers to God, there is no suggestion that they had any part in answering them. In fact, this makes sense because they are offering them up to God for Him to hear and answer.
frostykind 4 years ago
it says that the elders in heaven (saints) are offering to God the prayers of thoes christians on earth. How can they offer God the prayers of thoes on earth unless thoes on earth put them in thier possesion?
OneTrueChurch 4 years ago
It does not say that the elders were saints. The elders are offering up the prayers of the saints. The bowls of incense or the vials of odours (depending on which translation you read) are the prayers of the SAINTS, not of general Christians.
tzephon 4 years ago
the word "saint" means "holy one" and it applies to all who are members of the body of christ, the church. So yes the title saint would apply to both the elders in heaven and the christians on earth. So actaully this is a great example of the saints in heaven (elders) praying for the saints on earth
OneTrueChurch 4 years ago
That's a pretty good explanation of saint, though I don't know that it applies to the elders in heaven. You stated in a comment below that saints offered up prayers of saints, when elders offered up the prayers. The elders are of the court of God and the word saint is not used to describe them in the Biblical text. And how do you answer for the Catholics about their idols?
tzephon 4 years ago
1) we don't worship idols, rahter we use them in the worship on God. Also you need to look at all the places where God commanded the use of images such as in the building of the temple, he commanded that statues of angels be built. He also commanded that statues of angels be placed on the ark of the covanet. The Jews venerated the ark the same way catholics venerate (not worship) religious images.
OneTrueChurch 4 years ago
2)Every time the OT talks about idols in a negetive light, it is alwasy in the context of WORSHIPING idols as God. Catholics do not do this
3) Back in the OT God had not come in a physical form, so it would have been wrong to make an image of an invisilbe God. But now, Christ, who is the image of the invisible God and in the form of God,, has come. There is nothing wrong with making an image of htat image.
OneTrueChurch 4 years ago
The Jews do not venerate the arc the same way that Catholics use idols. Jews do not pray to the Arc. The reason there are cherubim and the Arc is as you said: God said to put them there. By your own word you say you use idols to worship which is exactly what God said not to do. God call idols detestable and worthless. By the word of God you cannot have idols, but you do! It is an abomination to God.
tzephon 4 years ago
we do not worhip the images, rather we USE the images in the worship of God. Besides, at the second council of Nicea, it was determined that the use of images in worship did not violate God's commandments.
OneTrueChurch 4 years ago
actaully we dont pray to images either. Logically if one were to see a person praying before a image of jesus christ one would conclude that the person was praying to jesus not to the image.
OneTrueChurch 4 years ago
So why didn't Jesus come to earth and hand out images of himself. Jesus is not an image. He is not a wafer, a baby jesus, or a dead crucified jesus. He rose from the dead and is reigning in heaven. Catholics believe dangerous and erroneous doctrines.
acmazza 3 years ago
Where does it say that it is okay to make an image of a visible god?
The OT say don't make idols. Whether worshiped or not.
Deu 4:23 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.
tzephon 4 years ago
Mary can recieve prayers? Is this Scriptural?
frostykind 4 years ago
in revelation 5:8 we see the saitns in heaven offering up to God the prayers of the saints on earth
"When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones."
OneTrueChurch 4 years ago
no its not, its actually idolotry, praying to anyone besides God is like having another God. i think only catholics pray to mary...
wakyworm 4 years ago
the word idolatry means "idol worship." catholics don't worship mary in the sense that we give her adoration. We ask her to pray for us just as we ask our fellow christians to pray for us on earth. and the eastern orthodox also pray to mary and the saints
Infact prayers to the saints was practiced in tyhe very origins of christianity long before protestantism ever existed
OneTrueChurch 4 years ago
Shalom and love b'Shem YESHUAH
hannahr77 4 years ago
The Catholics make idols and pray to them. That is forbidden, not once but several times. Every statue the Catholics make of Jesus or Mary or any saint is an abomination to God. For example: Deuteronomy 4:15-16 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether FORMED LIKE A MAN OR A WOMAN
tzephon 4 years ago
The new covenant is not the Katholic Church!Do you pray to Mary with the Katholic?
2praise 4 years ago
its spelled "Catholic" not "Katholic" and yes I do ask the mother of my savior to pray for me.
OneTrueChurch 4 years ago