@altar1968 Meades spent most of his television career prior to this in reminding the people who live in the UK to the social and political injustices, collective amnesias and strangeness of its past and present.
He'd have done better to take the hypocrisy of soviet propaganda as a matter of course. One of the first things they did was end worker management. It was just a brute empire pretending to be a modern country. Just take it for what it was and ditch this holier than thou attitude.
Of course western intellectuals and politicians who defend Stalinism didn't/don't necessarily "covet the licence of free range tyrants". They just were fooling themselves about Stalin, most of them.
Great stuff - almost as good as its predecessor on Nazi architecture. Meades is at his best savaging the pretensions of totalitarians. Perhaps the time is ripe for him to take on Maoism...
I agree with taking on Maoism. The chinese government TO THIS DAY is perpetuating countless crimes against humanity and no one is saying a peep. Their legacy is rooted in the brutality of chriaman mao's supporters, who committed senseless acts of brutality and sadistic carnage on the rural villagers they demanded convert to communism. Students clutching Mao's little red book as they force innocent villagers to devour the dismembered flesh of fellow villagers in cruelty is the Maoist legacy.
@Ultrasecond China is often overlooked when it comes to tyrannical totalitarian regimes, I mean does the UK & USA even care about the Tibetans or political dissidents or living conditions in general?
Stalin was of course 'Uncle Joe' during the War; so much propaganda was directed against Hitler that a knee jerk reaction against Stalin and Communist regimes in general wasn't able to be inculcated in the collective memory.
I think it has more to do with Britain and the U.S. using Stalin's forces to exhaust and destroy the Germans in the war. It wouldn't do to admit that you had defeated one maniacal, genocidal dictator by allying yourself with another one. Quantities of bodies doesn't matter.
Hitler subjugated- tried to eliminate- an entire race based off of a factor the individual had no control over. The Soviets killed a whole lot of people- intentionally or otherwise- but genocide was never on the agenda. That's why one is demonized and the other merely loathed.
@SgtStrayshot That's a lie and you know it. Your statement makes you highly suspect as either an outright Marxist or a Marxist sympathizer. Knowing there are people like you in the world makes me sick. Kulaks couldn't help who they were, but they were denied any sort of rights or dignity simply for the class they belonged to.
I guess that's just fine with you though, seeing as how you are most likely a Marxist.
I hope you end up starving in a work camp yourself.
@Sleepy1988 Haha, good to know historical revisionism is in full swing. Nobody outside of the US gives claims of Soviet genocide any credence whatsoever. The Holodomor is one of the more depressing fabrications of the past few decades (a fabrication insofar as there's no evidence it was engineered or intentional in any way).
And it's very telling that the very suggestion that the Soviets weren't the awful monsters the West makes them out to be deserves starvation and death.
@SgtStrayshot So in spite of the fact that there is a tremendous amount of evidence, much of it coming from Stalin's own disclosed records, there are still holodomar deniers like you - to the point that you declare by fiat that there is 'no evidence' in spite of the fact that there is. A great deal, in fact. That's rather depressing.
@MassiveJungle To whom are you addressing that question? If you're addressing it rhetorically to Meades, then it should have been evident from the beginning that the answer is yes, and that your contribution adds nothing to the line of thought which he is pursuing here.
'The Soviet Union was as much founded on the works of the 19th century poetic realists Lewis Carroll and Robert Louis Stevenson as it was in that of the 19th century prosaic fantastists Karl Marx and Fredrich Engels'
the USSR was more secretive because persecution wasn't taught about in education (like nazi schools) or propagandised (like on the peoples radio under the nazis)
And where does the Indian mutiny sit with this very valid attack on Stalin? Not pot kettle black?
altar1968 3 months ago
@altar1968 Meades spent most of his television career prior to this in reminding the people who live in the UK to the social and political injustices, collective amnesias and strangeness of its past and present.
So, why do you mention the Indian Mutiny ?
Stereolabdream 1 month ago
He'd have done better to take the hypocrisy of soviet propaganda as a matter of course. One of the first things they did was end worker management. It was just a brute empire pretending to be a modern country. Just take it for what it was and ditch this holier than thou attitude.
stoazen 1 year ago
Of course western intellectuals and politicians who defend Stalinism didn't/don't necessarily "covet the licence of free range tyrants". They just were fooling themselves about Stalin, most of them.
belisariusorb 1 year ago
Youtube comments: Where I come for impeccable academic credentials and unbiased historical debate!
TheAdmiral 1 year ago 4
@TheAdmiral the irony
fdsdh1 1 week ago
This is a great documentary!
Sleepy1988 1 year ago
Great stuff - almost as good as its predecessor on Nazi architecture. Meades is at his best savaging the pretensions of totalitarians. Perhaps the time is ripe for him to take on Maoism...
ninthcouncil 3 years ago 10
I agree with taking on Maoism. The chinese government TO THIS DAY is perpetuating countless crimes against humanity and no one is saying a peep. Their legacy is rooted in the brutality of chriaman mao's supporters, who committed senseless acts of brutality and sadistic carnage on the rural villagers they demanded convert to communism. Students clutching Mao's little red book as they force innocent villagers to devour the dismembered flesh of fellow villagers in cruelty is the Maoist legacy.
Ultrasecond 2 years ago
@Ultrasecond China is often overlooked when it comes to tyrannical totalitarian regimes, I mean does the UK & USA even care about the Tibetans or political dissidents or living conditions in general?
fdsdh1 1 week ago
genius:)
and yea russias slipping back into revisionist history again:(
omgwtfbbqstfu 3 years ago
because history is written and interpreted by the victors i guess.
mrotsdnal 4 years ago 2
Yes, why do people demonize Hitler and not Stalin? Which system created more bodies?
WizardKing78 4 years ago
Stalin was of course 'Uncle Joe' during the War; so much propaganda was directed against Hitler that a knee jerk reaction against Stalin and Communist regimes in general wasn't able to be inculcated in the collective memory.
That's just my theory...
littlegreymen 3 years ago
I think it has more to do with Britain and the U.S. using Stalin's forces to exhaust and destroy the Germans in the war. It wouldn't do to admit that you had defeated one maniacal, genocidal dictator by allying yourself with another one. Quantities of bodies doesn't matter.
trumpetlegs 2 years ago
Hitler subjugated- tried to eliminate- an entire race based off of a factor the individual had no control over. The Soviets killed a whole lot of people- intentionally or otherwise- but genocide was never on the agenda. That's why one is demonized and the other merely loathed.
SgtStrayshot 3 years ago
@SgtStrayshot That's a lie and you know it. Your statement makes you highly suspect as either an outright Marxist or a Marxist sympathizer. Knowing there are people like you in the world makes me sick. Kulaks couldn't help who they were, but they were denied any sort of rights or dignity simply for the class they belonged to.
I guess that's just fine with you though, seeing as how you are most likely a Marxist.
I hope you end up starving in a work camp yourself.
Sleepy1988 1 year ago
@Sleepy1988 Haha, good to know historical revisionism is in full swing. Nobody outside of the US gives claims of Soviet genocide any credence whatsoever. The Holodomor is one of the more depressing fabrications of the past few decades (a fabrication insofar as there's no evidence it was engineered or intentional in any way).
And it's very telling that the very suggestion that the Soviets weren't the awful monsters the West makes them out to be deserves starvation and death.
SgtStrayshot 1 year ago
@SgtStrayshot So in spite of the fact that there is a tremendous amount of evidence, much of it coming from Stalin's own disclosed records, there are still holodomar deniers like you - to the point that you declare by fiat that there is 'no evidence' in spite of the fact that there is. A great deal, in fact. That's rather depressing.
HisEmptyHouse 1 year ago
Perhaps they're both terrible, have you ever thought of that?
MassiveJungle 3 years ago 6
@MassiveJungle To whom are you addressing that question? If you're addressing it rhetorically to Meades, then it should have been evident from the beginning that the answer is yes, and that your contribution adds nothing to the line of thought which he is pursuing here.
belzondium 1 year ago
'The Soviet Union was as much founded on the works of the 19th century poetic realists Lewis Carroll and Robert Louis Stevenson as it was in that of the 19th century prosaic fantastists Karl Marx and Fredrich Engels'
chuckles ;)
belzondium 1 year ago
It makes our alliance with russia at the end of the war much easier to swallow? Not that it's right.
sergelapelle 2 years ago
@WizardKing78 stalin used to be uncle joe, hitler was always just an austrian lunatic
the nazi's were also more open about persecution, the USSR was more secretive about persecution
fdsdh1 1 week ago
the USSR was more secretive because persecution wasn't taught about in education (like nazi schools) or propagandised (like on the peoples radio under the nazis)
fdsdh1 1 week ago
Brilliant!
schoonero 4 years ago 3