@54v155 he gained the trust of dipshits, so they trusted him when he said you have to have lots of sex with me it is holy so basicly he was a perveted poece of shit who took advantage of other dipshits so to the core mormons are just perverted fucks
@tamasandy The quotes do not need any refuting in their proper context. BlackldsDOTorg gives a history of the church in parallel with black US history which tells the true story and context for these quotes.
Regarding blacks being denied the priesthood, this right is a PRIVILEGE exclusive to the House of Israel, and was granted unto the Gentiles only in consequence of Israel's trangression. The sons of Ham are not considered Gentiles, and so their grafting in was reserved for a future time.
@101mythbuster oh, so the CURSE of black skin and denial of the priesthood was a PRIVILEGE...? gotcha.
i'm sorry, but you believe what your church teaches you... that's why you accept these things. but, do you think you can atleast understand why many will not accept them? if a church taught the same regarding whites, would a simple explanation suffice for you? if i gave you a reference that explained the factual hisory of unicorns, would it do any good?
@tamasandy No, I don't think you do get it. What I actually said is that THE PRIESTHOOD is a PRIVILEGE, one that rightfully belongs only to the House of Israel. If blacks were ever cursed, it is only with regards to the priesthood. Mormons have never taught that black skin is a "curse", where do you get this information from? It seems that you have a problem reading into words and quotes only what you want them to say, it's no wonder that you misunderstand this doctrine.
traced back to canaan, son of ham who was the son of noah. in the story, a curse of black skin is placed on canaan to punish ham. it has since been named the "curse of ham". lds believed that canaan's wife egyptus was the descendant of cain which is how his seed survived the great flood.
children of canaan (& egyptus)... black skin is a curse and the seed of cain in lds theory.
quotes from your church history are in line with this theory.
traced back to canaan, son of ham who was the son of noah. in the story, a curse of black skin is placed on canaan to punish ham. it has since been named the "curse of ham". lds believed that canaan's wife egyptus was the descendant of cain which is how his seed survived the great flood.
children of canaan (& egyptus)... black skin is a curse and the seed of cain in lds theory.
quotes from your church history are in line with this theory.
@101mythbuster "In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the "servant of servants," and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2).
@tamasandy I had not received notification that you had posted these quotes, hence, my late reply.
You will notice in this quote, that the Mormons were known to their Missourian neighbors for their abolishonist views. Brigham seems to be only stating that getting involved in the slave issue would be useless, since he saw the situation as a fulfilment of God's decrees upon that race. He did not mean that it was permisable for the saints to own slaves. In fact, he denounced anyone who did.
@101mythbuster "You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Brigham Young, JOD, vol.7).
@tamasandy You will notice again in this quote, BY states that "the flat nose and black skin" is only a "mark," and not a "curse." He is not suggesting that these objectionable qualities found in "some classes of the human family" are a result of their skin color, or their belonging to an inferior race, but, as he stated on other occasions, as a result of them being deprived of the blessings of God due to the disobedience of their fathers, and their following in their incorrect traditions.
@tamasandy "sometimes it's not the truth" God is not worried about being politically correct, just because some people find it offensive doesn't mean it's not the truth.
What logical fallacies do you see in Mormonism exactly? I see Mormonism as providing the answers which mainstream Christianity cannot.
"the story of the curse of ham specifically explains black skin as a curse" Really? Where exactly is this "story" found?
@101mythbuster it seems i'm "hung up on skin color"? this video is addressing skin color. that's why we're talking about it.
majority of whites were racist in the 1800's and early 1900's... ok, agreed.
like i said before... the church members are not racist, the doctrine is.
"...black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of intelligence..." this doesn't explain an inferior race?
@tamasandy The focus of this video may be skin color but it's only because they're trying to sell the claim of Mormon racism, it has little to do with the real doctrine. If "the church members are not racist" and this doctrine is no longer relevant, what exactly is your issue?
"this doesn't explain an inferior race?" There are many classes of people from all races who fit this description, that doesn't necessarily mean they belong to a genetically inferior race. There's no such thing.
@101mythbuster "God is not worried about being politically correct, just because some people find it offensive doesn't mean it's not the truth." ...you've already stated this before and it doesn't mean it is the truth. also this is your opinion and not fact.
you believe in mormonism. therefore, you accept the answers they provide. all religion lacks in good logic.
i already explained the "curse of ham" story. read back.
curse of cain was widely believed by the lds, not the world.
@tamasandy "this is your opinion and not fact" The same can be said of your opinion, what evidence do you have that this is not fact.
I asked you to provide a source for the curse of ham story, not to give me your fabricated version of it.
The split between the Northern & Southern Baptist arose over the curse of cain doctrine and its use to justify slavery. The doctrine was used to support a ban on ordaining blacks to most Protestant clergies until the 1960s in both the U.S. and Europe.
@101mythbuster "this doctrine is no longer relevant, what exactly is your issue?" ...it was taught wasn't it? so, your church is true, but wasn't necessarily true when the doctrine was being taught? that is the issue with your church history, it exists... and the present church contradicts its past.
i agree, no such thing as an inferior race. but,the quote was specifically about the "african race". again, not his personal feelings. but, supposedly "God's word" which is no longer taught/true.
@tamasandy I said that the doctrine is no longer relevant beacause blacks are presently permited into the priesthood, not because what Mormon leaders stated in the past is no longer true. There is no contradiction when you view these quotes within the context of everything which they taught. Critics love to pick and choose statements which fit their contraversial claims and avoid telling the whole story. You say this is a racist doctrine, but it's clear that you know very little about it.
@101mythbuster "what evidence do you have that this is not fact." you ask this as if you have evidence it is fact or something is true unless proven false... either way, it remains an opinion. i don't claim any of my beliefs are fact. your church does... but still an opinion.
the problem with the curse of ham story is it is fiction. what i explained to you is merely what it became over the years and what many seemed to believe even without it being accepted as official doctrine.
@101mythbuster the doctrine is not longer relevant and never was. McConkie said, "Forget everything I have said, or what...Brigham Young...or whomsoever has said...that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world."...limited understanding = not true. what they previously taught was a racist doctrine simply because it was based on race. do you disagree with mcconkie?
@tamasandy Notice that McConkie qualified his statement by including only that which "is contrary to the present revelation." He's not necessarily referring to the priesthood ban or denying everything that's ever been said on the subject. He seems to be only referring to speculations given by church leaders as explanations behind the ban and which are in conflict with LDS revelation. Infallibility however, has never been a requisite for any duly ordained apostle or prophet in any age.
@101mythbuster "he's not necessarily referring to the priesthood ban or denying everything..." ...he's referring to any information given about blacks. either way, i don't feel forgetting what's been said is a good thing. as a religion, you are accountable for what is said/taught... especially from so-called prophets of God.
@tamasandy It seems that you wish to apply modern day standards to people who lived in a different period in history. Even prophets themselves are a product of their generation. So maybe I agree that church leaders could have worded things alot better when touching upon this doctrine, but keep in mind that people back then expressed themselves differently and were not so worried about political correctness as today. It seems you're alot more worried about words than anything else.
@101mythbuster perhaps you're right. i may be judging them on the standards of today. but, i think that's the point. "even prophets themselves are a product of their generation...." i agree. this is why i believe they were mere men with opinions they thought were inspired by God. this is just my opinion on this matter. i just can't accept the modern day explanations of your church for its past. this seems to be a similar reason you find mormonism to be more valid than mainstream christianity.
@tamasandy Maybe the reason that you have trouble accepting Mormonism is that your expectations are too unrealistic. I mean, what else would prophets be, if not "mere men"? It is absurd to think that prophets receive and speak revelation 24/7 and are never left to their own human understanding to ponder upon God's word. In reality, there is a vast difference between the revealed word of God through the prophets and the words of the prophets as men. Infallibile prophets do not exist.
@101mythbuster unrealistic? no, i'm just being realistic. yes, it's absurd to think that they speak revelation 24/7. many of the quotes that critics have issues with are not from small exchanges of words, conversations, bedtime stories... but from words spoken from a pulpit to a congregation, during conference, etc... aka adam-God, etc.? if this is not when these men are speaking for God, then when? it seems the church picks and chooses what is prophecy and what is not based on modern standards.
@tamasandy Not every thing spoken from a pulpit is automatically considered doctrine, although, I do see how many people (including Mormons) could be inclined to have this expectation. However, it is an unfair expectation that can prevent us from seeing past human imperfections and recognizing God's true servants. In reality, the contraversial Mormon quotes which critics like to abuse and endlessly exploit are really few, and far in between.
@tamasandy When a prophet speaks as he is moved upon by the Holy Ghost, you can pretty much consider it scripture. However, it is only by that self same spirit that we can know if what is being spoken is really the word of God or not. I have been moved to tears many times during general conference while hearing the apostles speak and have a testimony of the power and authority of God vested in them. While they are by no means infallible, their minute errors are nevertheless a rare occurence.
@101mythbuster also, isn't a prophet a man who communes directly with God? have any of the mormon prophets other than joseph made this claim? you don't believe monson does, do you? and if he doesn't, then he would just be president of your church and not a prophet.
@tamasandy Actually, there has been, in fact, many divine manifestations received by several of Joseph Smith's successors, although, maybe not so many as he himself received. This includes visions given to Brigham Young, John Taylor, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Wilford Woodruf and others. These kind of manifestations, however, were suited for the restoration of the KIngdom and are not as essential as that revelation presently given by general authorities for the perfecting of the saints.
@tamasandy God reveals himself unto men according to his own wiil, not according to the will of men. If God chose to reveal today new mysteries pertaining to his kingdom, he would only do so through his duly ordained mouthpiece. I do not know wether Thomas S. Monson has spoken directly to God or not and it makes no difference to me, because I know by the power of the Holy Ghost that he is the only man on earth today who holds the priesthood keys necessary to receive these things.
@tamasandy The Adam-God THEORY is actually not a doctrine, its existence is entirely derived from a handful of obscure statements made by Brigham Young with referrence to other related doctrines. It is quite possible that Young misinterpreted certain scripture passages about Adam to arrive at his conclusions, however, he also made many othe statements which seemingly contradict Adam-God. Since he never adequately expounded on these things, it is difficult to explain what he really meant by them.
@101mythbuster can you give any examples of any lds prophets (not smith) who gave an account of speaking directly with God? i don't think there's a single one. i think it does make a difference. that's what a prophet does... commune with God directly. if not, then he's no different than you or i.
adam-God is not accepted as doctrine. but, brigham did teach it as such. he taught it at general conference and members just didn't accept it. weird... modern day members (devout) wouldn't question.
@tamasandy Once again, your concept of what a prophet is supposed to be is far from accurate. The principal role of a prophet is to bring men unto Christ and to teach his doctrine. Once the foundations of the kingdom have been laid, heavenly visions become less essential and would only serve to satisfy the lusts of sign seekers. The revelation which ended the ban on priesthood is said to have been a truly pentecostal experience and is a perfect example of continued revelation in the church.
@tamasandy It is said Joseph Smith received commandments from God "even as Moses." Admitedly, none of his successors can make this claim, however, if you require examples, I will refer you to one of Brigahm Young's revelations found in Sec.136 and also Joseph F. Smith's 1918 vision of the spirit world found in Sec.138. Several visions are also recorded in the personal journals of John Taylor & Wilford Woodruf, not to mention several accounts of apostles having sighted Christ in the SLC temple.
@101mythbuster far from accurate? uh... no. i see things my way, and you yours. we only have opinions here. you and your way is not right... neither is mine. we have our own perceptions and perspectives. you believe in your church. therefore, you believe what they say, how they defend their history, how they explain things, etc... i don't believe in your church and do not accept what you do. that is all.
@tamasandy "we only have opinions here" Granted, but why do you assume that LDS don't have a personal testimony of these things and simply believe because church leaders tell them to. On the contrary, general authorities have made much emphasis over not depending upon borrowed light for our salvation. You wouldn't say that you believe the Bible simply because you've been told it's the word of God, would you?
You say this is only my opinion, but I say, I know it through personal revelation.
@101mythbuster there's no doubt you have a personal testimony. so does a muslim, jehovas witness, scientologist, etc... each religion "knows" they have the "truth" through personal revelation.
i've read the bible and the book of mormon. after praying, i sincerely do not believe either to be God's word. what would be your assessment of me then? is God not revealing "truth" to all who seek it?
from personal experience, i don't see how there could only be one way... perhaps this is my revelation.
@tamasandy Like I said, many truths can also be found within other religions simply because of the fact that everyone has the light of Christ to witness these truths unto them. However, not everyone receives the same degree of light. While individuals of different religions can have a genuine testimony of the Bible for example, it doesn't prevent them from deviseing many erroneous ideas, hence, the wilderness of Christian sects. This is the principal reason preisthood authority is so essential.
@tamasandy As for your case, I gather, since you claim to have prayed about it, that you believe in the existence of a supreme creator, otherwise, your prayer was in vain. God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him. We can only come unto him on his own terms, as declared in his word. Therefore, we must be willing to let go of any preconceived notions and exercise faith inorder to obtain a witness. Faith preceeds everything. A true and lasting testimony is not gained over night.
@101mythbuster "over night"? i genuinely searched in faith and it was a very strenuous, but positive process. i attended church meetings, spoke often with a bishop, took institute, seminary, etc...
"diligently seek... come unto him on his own terms"? by the standard of your church, that's exactly what i did. i loved attending church, the people, the activities, etc... but, in the end, this was my answer. you may question, but my search was sincere. this was long before i read church history.
@tamasandy (Mat.13:18-19) "Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side."
@tamasandy The answer you were given? By who?God? Which God? It sounds like you arrived at this conclusion through your own reasoning simply because Mormon teachings conflict with your own preconceived ideas. Somehow I doubt that being exposed to anti-Mormon literature had nothing to do with it. I realize that Baptism can be a real leap of faith to many investigators but the reality is that, without this crucial step, it is impossible to obtain a real testimony of the restored gospel.
@101mythbuster it's very interesting that you assume my answer couldn't have come from God and yours has. also, you argue with scripture that i don't believe in. shall i quote from a book you don't believe in to argue my point?
i don't believe what you do... i don't think the way you do... i didn't get the answer you did... and somehow, you doubt? surprise, surprise.
is there a reason why you can't accept that people have prayed about your book, your church, etc. and didn't gain confirmation?
@tamasandy I realize that many people have never received a confirmation of the restored Gospel and that is entirely their own problem. However, stating that one has received a divine witness that Mormonism is false is a completely different situation, especially, when it's from some unknown source you don't care to mention. That, I do not believe, in as much as I believe the witness which I have received from God. I can safely infer thereby that your claims (sincere or not) are simply untrue.
@101mythbuster how does it sound like i used my own reasoning? so, i'm lying? you're arrogant enough to presume to know the dealings and intent of another person. many say that mormons are judgemental... and this is why.
"without (baptism)... it is impossible to obtain a real testimony.." that is not true. if it were revealed to me that your church was true, i would have been baptized. if you choose to join before knowing it's true, you're a fool.
@tamasandy Presuming somtheing is quite different than infering it from your statements. Not to mention, you've been very vague about your own beliefs. I don't pretend to know your intentions but when you claim to have received a witness that Mormonism is false, after telling you I've received a witness of its truthfulness, you're essentially calling me a liar. Clearly, one of us is full of crap. If Mormons come off as being judgemental at times, it's only due to our uncompromising convictions.
@tamasandy A person cannot wait around until they become convinced beyond a shaddow of doubt before they act. They must follow the promptings of the spirit into the waters of baptism before they lose this small window of opportunity and the advesary takes away what they've already received. (See Mat.7:14) Without the Gift of the Holy Ghost a person cannot possess an enduring witness of the true Gospel and is therefore left to his own judgement to seek after truth.
@101mythbuster there was no prompting of the spirit for me to be baptized. that is a fact and i would currently be a devout member had there been. the way i see it, no one is wrong. if that's how you perceive it, go ahead, but do not expect me to follow blindly when i have my own answer. full of crap? personal revelation has come to every religion, every culture, etc., maybe we're all full of crap. people won't believe what you do and will not receive the same witness you have. live with it.
@tamasandy I don't expect you to follow anything blindly, on the contrary, I only want you to see what you so willfully refuse to see. This "no one is wrong" attitude is very diplomatic and politically correct but in reality there is no such thing as many paths to God, if that's what you're saying. Go ahead and quote from what ever book you want if you think it will convince me, but, if you're going to deny Mormonism at least say what I should believe in, otherwise, you have no credibility.
@101mythbuster that's completely fine. you think my claims are untrue? well, that's your opinion and your welcome to it. i still think your church is false.
i should say what you should believe in for me to have credibility? like i said before, we don't think alike... and in my opinion, that statement just sounds dumb. i don't have to tell you how to live your life. you don't have to tell me how to. i don't have to convince you of anything. you choose your own path. i choose mine.
@tamasandy "we don't think alike" Well that's just stating the obvious. It would also seem that you wish to continue avoiding the question about your beleifs. Is the answer really that bad? Look, my point is simply this, how are you going to sit there and tell someone their religion is false without providing an alternative as to what they should beleive? Even the atheist have an answer for that.
@tamasandy "i'm not telling you it's false. i'm telling you that i believe it is false" Sounds to me like you're not too sure. On the other hand, my belief in the Book of Mormon is such that I would be afraid to offend God and come under his condemnation were I to deny the truth which he has so oft made manifest unto me concerning it's veracity. I hope you can truly understand when I say to you that your mere opinion of Mormonism and my conviction of its truth, are not on equal terms.
@101mythbuster again, more assumptions and bad logic. i believe it is false. you believe it is true. all wwe have is opinions as i've stated before. perhaps if i just got baptised for the heck of it, as you suggested, i would be offending God. i know your church is not true. you may think that the world is full of crap and wasting their time, but the feeling is mutual. your testimony and faith mean absolutely nothing to me.
@101mythbuster when other religions receive confirmation for their "truth", is that untrue? they're the ones wasting their time?
one thing i believe in, is that there isn't one way that every person in the world needs to or should live. there couldn't possibly be. there are places in this world where people are born, live a full life, and die of old age never hearing of christ, let alone joseph smith. you of course think they will gain "truth" in the next life... i of course disagree.
@tamasandy I'm curious, you previously stated that you had prayed about the Book of Mormon once. I was wondering, since Moroni's promise clearly indicates to 'ask the Father in the name of Jesus Christ if these things be true,' how were you able to follow this formula without a belief in christ? Which I assume is the case due to your rejection of the Bible as the word of God, right? As I had suspected, it seems your trying to find God's truth on your own terms and not his.
@tamasandy LDS recognize that many truths can be found within other religions, however, because God is not the author of confusion, we do not consider their claims of spiritual gifts as being from God. Spiritual gifts are exclusive to Christ's true church and if they were also present in other religions, it would only mean that Christ is also divided. On the otherhand, the light of Christ that is in all men is a universal gift by which they are able to discern truth from error.
@tamasandy When I hear critics quoting church leaders to find fault in their words, it often brings to mind this scripture:
(Isaiah 29:20-21) "For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all THAT WATCH FOR INIQUITY are cut off: That make a man AN OFFENDER FOR A WORD, and LAY A SNARE for him that reproveth at the gate(the prophets), and turn aside the just for a thing of nought."
@tamasandy You will notice again in this quote, BY states that "the flat nose and black skin" is only a "mark," and not a "curse." He is not suggesting that objectionable qualities found in "some classes of the human family" are a result of their skin color, or their belonging to an inferior race, but, as he stated on other occasions, as a result of them being deprived of the blessings of God due to the disobedience of their fathers, and their following in their incorrect traditions.
@101mythbuster "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).
@tamasandy "If the Government of the United States, in Congress assembled, had the right to pass an anti-polygamy bill, they had also the right to pass a law that slaves should not be abused as they have been; they had also a right to make a law that negroes should be used like human beings, and not worse than dumb brutes. FOR THEIR ABUSE OF THAT RACE, THE WHITES WILL BE CURSED, UNLESS THEY REPENT." Brigham Young, (8 March 1863) Journal of Discourses 10:111
@tamasandy Just so that you don't misunderstand what Brigham Young meant by his statement, "the white man who belongs to the chosen seed" He is only referring to those Gentiles who have recieved the priesthood and thereby have been grafted into the Hosue of Israel. Young is merely making allusions to a time in ancient Israel, when death was the penalty for intermingling their chosen seed with the blood of the Cannanites, or are you also ignorant of these things?
@101mythbuster you just went off the subject. didn't you ask, "Mormons have never taught that black skin is a "curse", where do you get this information from?"? well, i just told you where. are you too ignorant to understand this?
the information i gave answered your question and what you replied with does not refute the fact that blacks were taught to have been cursed and are the seed of cain in lds theory. you misunderstand.
i don't accept your opinion of what he meant by "chosen seed".
@tamasandy My mistake, I thought this was a random quote, I guess I missed the part where it said that black skin was a curse. For your information, dark skin is not in itself a "curse" but rather the "mark" intended to distinguish their lineage.
What I said about the "chosen seed" is not merely my opinion, it is LDS doctrine. BY is here making a distinction between common Gentiles, and those who have received the oath and covenant of the priesthood, and therby become the seed of Abraham.
@tamasandy Also, the quote I provided was intended to show that despite Brigham Young's doctrinal views concerning the priesthood, he was not a racist by any definition, but often advocated in favor of African slaves. Visit blackldsDOTorg if you're serious about your objections and are not just trying to score points against the church. You will see exactly how LDS history compares with mainstream Christian history and US history, when it comes to racism during the 1800 and early 1900s.
@101mythbuster you must've missed the other repliesi gave...
black skin has been taught to be a curse as i've already explained... curse of ham, etc.
i'll try and meet you in the middle here... the church leaders are not racist. there may be some that are, but that would be a personal thing. the teachings are based on race... aka racist. you have to accept that non-memebers will see it that way simply because your prophets are seen as mere men teaching something they don't believe in.
@tamasandy I have news for you, the vast majority of whites in the US during the 1800s and early 1900s were racist to some degree. The Ku-klux Klan was made up of members all belonging to various "Christian" denominations.(no Mormons by the way) The belief that blacks bore the curse of cain was held by almost all the churches well into the mid 1900s. Have you ever heard of Mormons persecuting blacks, or lynching and murdering them? Mormons racist? Spare me.
@101mythbuster you see this as God's revelation to his prophets and just a historical account of blacks on this earth. so technically, God would be the racist not the prophets giving the message. this is another reason why non-believers will not accept the teaching and also why many believers will have a loss of faith. racist or not, what it boils down to is accepting whether the doctrine and theology is from God or not. i do not. maybe you can at least see why others don't accept it.
@tamasandy God is not a respecter of persons and yet, he chose the people of Israel above all other nations, and the Gentiles found favor, only through their transgression. I can see if you were a person of African descent, how this doctrine might be difficult to accept and yet there are many blacks today who believe in the restored gospel. You're only using this as another excuse to reject Mormonism. Women are also not permited into the priesthood, does this make God a sexist too?
@101mythbuster technically yes... by definition, withholding something from someone based on their sex would be considered sexist. women too have had their hardships in your church history apart from blessings such as the priesthood.
i don't need to be of african descent for this to be difficult to accept. i find it difficult to accept as a part of the human race. skin color is the result of time and evolution as it pertains to climate, etc... not a curse in anyway.
@tamasandy Skin color has a natural explanation just as everything else which God does, but he did not create the different races out of boredom or without purpose. It seems that you are too hung up on the matter of skin color, as if this had anything to do with the matter. The "curse of Ham," which you mention in another post, pertains only to the right of receiving the priesthood. (See Abraham1:26-27)
As for women suffering hardships in the church, perhaps you care to elaborate.
@101mythbuster you don't need to be of african descent or a woman to find mormonism difficult to accept. i do not find excuses to reject your church. based on its teachings and history, i just don't believe in it. that is all. just as you do not find excuses to reject islam, hindu, or santa clause. you just don't believe in them.
there are many logical fallacies in mormonism as with all religions.
@tamasandy Sometimes the truth can be difficult to accept for people who are unwilling to let go of their preconceived notions, however, I respect anyone who choses not to believe, as long as they don't go about trying to discredit other people's religion. But, speaking of "logical fallacies," this is precisely the reason that I have trouble accepting mainstream Christianity myself. Doctrines like Trinitarianism, ex-nihilo Creationism, etc. make absolutely no logical sense to me.
haha- try having a conversation with a born again christian, a mennonite, or a nun or priest......they all hate people who are not like them or serve God like they do. :D LOL!!!! I obviously live in a bible belt. :P I might not be white but I maske good money and have a shit load of education in university and college. :D haha! when I sound stupid (like my post here :P) ..makes sense. HAHA XD wanna scare a christian? Just say "God is a bastard" haha! that easrned me an exorcism! XD
the 3rd mormon president said blacks were on the earth to represent satan and white represented God. yes mormonism came out of a racist doctrine so did christianity. ppl used christianity to justify slavery and used the curse of cain to call blacks inferior and a cursed ppl. Islam is racist the religion made it legal for arabs to enslave africans. Religion itself is not bad, it is the men who make it bad. After all the suffering God has something special in store for the black race
@54v115 He knows that the Bible is corrupted and he thought he could form society for good by using his mind given by God to write a book to guide the future(we can clearly see his by his teachings which are now seen as outdated even by the mainstream LDS church).
@youngstormtaf No the Bible is not bullshit, the way people interpret it today is bullshit. When the Bible was originally written it was mainly written in didatic form and not in history form. Some parts were but most is Didadic, people take the Didadic parts and make them historical when they are not.
@LifeLibertyLove didn't Jo smiths Bible version remain with the RLDS containing about 1200 changes by Jo, and the LDS took a revised Jo smith bible with only 600 changes by the top guys not trusting Jo's version to Utah? I read that in the History of the Church.. why didn't they trust their own prophet? Are some Mormon prophets trusted (and truer) more than other mormon prophets?
@54v115 Why are you sorry? What else questions do you have? PM me. I am not an expert on Mormonism but I have a very well rounded knowledge of world religions and God concepts.
@LifeLibertyLove Why would Joseph Smith in creating the Book of mormon during the 19th century, which is a claimed history of 'ancient america', why would he use 17th century english? I'm confused over this. Also, why was Joseph Smith allowed to add to the D+C in such as way as to say that God told his wife Emma, she must accept his other 'wives'?
@54v115 He made it 17th century english because it sounds more authoritative. Actually he did not use the 17th century english the King James Version of the Bible was ORIGINALLY written in, rather, he used a more "updated" version of 17th century english like we have in our updated versions of the King James Version's of the Bible in book stores today. He added to D+C in order to sound more authoritative in his orders and to use his religious status to have power over women he wanted as wives.
@54v115 he made it from the golden plates. because the bible had been changed around alot. it still had some truth in it, but it also had some lies and errors in it too
@chadro85 no-one ever saw the golden plates..I've read the witness statements of the three guys. They tell us that they saw the plates in vision, and never actually saw or handled the plates. I don't believe that J.Smith actually had the plates. Also, the Bible has retained it's integrity throughout, with minor errors.. caused regardless of faithfully reproduction across time, culture. The language barriers and all the syntax and semantic challenges put to the scriveners didn't change content.
@chadro85 - No-one saw them.. none of the entire witnesses.. it tells you this in the witness statements in the Book of Mormon and the LDS church certainly do not have the golden plates or any artifacts for that matter. Wouldn't you think they'd show the plates, if they really could show them to validate their claims?
@54v115 no the lds church really does still have the plates. they mite not show them to the public. but that doesn't mean their a lie. i mean they've even told us where they are how much more info do you need. and besides seeing isn't always beileveing you know. even if they did show them to the public their would still be haters, anti-mormons, etc.
@chadro85 Not according to Jo Smith Jnr himself... nor ANY president of the LDS church. you will believe anything I'm sorry to add. i'm sorry if you disagree, but I undertake extensive research using LDS sources before i comment. I suggest you do the same!
This is why the state of AZ who is 80%LDS is so f'ed up. Its run by most of these SELF RICHIOUS ,water walking fake kooks. Racist kooks. Its so funny cause their fair skinned white and delightsome women like that dark meat in secret.
El mormonismo es palabrerio decorativo porque alguien de la iglesia lo manda quien escuche esto sepa que los juramentos de la masoneria que practican en el templo, los brazos en escuadra y los disfraces blancos y verdes no traen salvacion a la vida de las personas, tampoco un Dios verdadero necesita de gente tan ridicula como sus representantes en la tierra.
i use to work in the place and the owner was a mormon and most of the workers too,and the owner had this thing that he always had his favorites..you could definetly say he was ahead of his head, he had this ishue of pride,he was fake,and so on..so he had superwiser who was black,one day i heard that the black guy was fired al because he didnt say hi to the customer,when there is bunch of them and you cant just go and say hi to each one of them.if that was the case then we all should be fired
I believe blacks are inferior but it has nothing to do with religion, I am an evolutionist. I believe the blacks who stayed in Africa were left somewhere behind on the evolutionary scale. I believe whites and east asians are the most evolved of all races.
@SuddenCatharsis yes and that is why nazis and KKK believe it too ... the idea that one race is better than any othe race is dumb as Hell and has lead to murder and Death camps ! read your history , MORON !
It is also one of the reasons why I do not Believe in Evolution !
@TheStephen2009 Evolution is science, science is indifferent. You are rejecting reality (science) because it goes against your moral beliefs? Most scientists agree that all humans have a common ape ancestor and human life started in Africa. These original primitive humans spread out across the world and evolved while the ones who stayed behind (blacks), were left behind in the evolutionary game. Call it what you may, but its the truth.
@SuddenCatharsis YEA, YEA , YEA ! THe blacks are sub human ... Hear that before !and the Ugly Nazi thinking is what you call Science ! Give me a Break !
I Guess you are one of them who think the Jews are sub human too !
No I do not reject Science per say but I do reject your nazi like Science for moral reasons !
no , it is your truth which is so backwards and racist that is wrong !
@SuddenCatharsis one more thing ... I Believe in Human Rights and I and others like me look down on people like you for the race haters you are ! Black people are equal to all other races ! when you get rid of you race hating and come to join the Human race ! I wil be there to welcome you !
@TheStephen2009 Your fallacy is believing that I have hatred inside of me. Unlike you I don't base my beliefs on emotion. I consider myself fully rational and have reached my conclusions on race based on cognitive reasoning and evolutionary principles. You can continue living in your fairy tale world though where we're all created "equal" and the only differences are on the surface.
@SuddenCatharsis the nazis thought they were fully rational and base their conclusions on race based on cogniitive reasoning and evolutionary principles and look what happend to them !
I am reminded the way people acted in the south with " the blacks are lazy , they can not learn , they are lower than the APES on the evolutioary line , and Boy they were wrong !
I am living in a Fairy tale world ... Really ! Then you never were told about US History did you ?
Besides Egypt, two other Empires in Africa were officially Christian, Those were modern day Ethiopia, as well as Kush(Ancient Ethiopia). Educate yourself mate life is too long to let hatred root itself in your life.
You may know evolution, but you know very little about history. The Blacks were among the first to form advanced civs with advanced mathematics and architecture. Heard of Kush, Tau Seti, (Predates Egypt)? As far as God what God thinks of Blacks, I see you are not familiar with the Bible or the history of Christianity. If so you would know that Africa in the OT was usually mentioned favorably by God, and Africa was one of the first places that Christianity rooted itself.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
The church does not believe that all other races are evil. the church believes that the evilness of people is what brought different colored skins amount the people. If you are going to listen to someone bashing the book of mormon, make sure that he actually knows what it is talking about
You are trying to justify something that is pointless and just does not make sense, remember it all came from the same person who wrote that there are beings inhabiting the moon who dress like quakers...pure 19th century folklore.
@TheEyesOfSam Lol! The beings on the moon dressed as quakers theory of Joseph just makes me laugh hard but throw up at the same time because i know millions of innocent people still believe his crap, like most of my family :(
mormons are the ultimate wolves in sheeps clothing. they seem so kind and loving but when you start to learn there doctrines you can see how vile they really are.
@TheStephen2009 Oh and what is the truth, enlightened one. Are you denying that race exists? There are more differences than just skin color. Blacks are not simply darkly pigmented whites.
@SuddenCatharsis the truth is God does not see race when it comes to believeing in jesus christ and there is no places just for blacks , just for whites , just for any other race in heaven ! all who come and stand before God are in his eyes just believers in Jesus Christ !
Do I deny that race Exists ... NO I don;t ! that is a thing Satan use to keep people who are believe in Jesus Christ apart ! it is the same thing as the sin game , the race game , the class game , the money game !
@54v155 he gained the trust of dipshits, so they trusted him when he said you have to have lots of sex with me it is holy so basicly he was a perveted poece of shit who took advantage of other dipshits so to the core mormons are just perverted fucks
dead1ybeast 7 months ago
I recommend going to blackldsDOTorg to get the real facts.
101mythbuster 7 months ago
@101mythbuster what do you mean? these are factual quotes. your reference doesn't really refute these quotes. they give an excuse for them.
tamasandy 7 months ago
@tamasandy The quotes do not need any refuting in their proper context. BlackldsDOTorg gives a history of the church in parallel with black US history which tells the true story and context for these quotes.
Regarding blacks being denied the priesthood, this right is a PRIVILEGE exclusive to the House of Israel, and was granted unto the Gentiles only in consequence of Israel's trangression. The sons of Ham are not considered Gentiles, and so their grafting in was reserved for a future time.
101mythbuster 7 months ago
@101mythbuster oh, so the CURSE of black skin and denial of the priesthood was a PRIVILEGE...? gotcha.
i'm sorry, but you believe what your church teaches you... that's why you accept these things. but, do you think you can atleast understand why many will not accept them? if a church taught the same regarding whites, would a simple explanation suffice for you? if i gave you a reference that explained the factual hisory of unicorns, would it do any good?
tamasandy 7 months ago
@tamasandy No, I don't think you do get it. What I actually said is that THE PRIESTHOOD is a PRIVILEGE, one that rightfully belongs only to the House of Israel. If blacks were ever cursed, it is only with regards to the priesthood. Mormons have never taught that black skin is a "curse", where do you get this information from? It seems that you have a problem reading into words and quotes only what you want them to say, it's no wonder that you misunderstand this doctrine.
101mythbuster 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@101mythbuster never taught? that's a lie.
traced back to canaan, son of ham who was the son of noah. in the story, a curse of black skin is placed on canaan to punish ham. it has since been named the "curse of ham". lds believed that canaan's wife egyptus was the descendant of cain which is how his seed survived the great flood.
children of canaan (& egyptus)... black skin is a curse and the seed of cain in lds theory.
quotes from your church history are in line with this theory.
tamasandy 7 months ago
@101mythbuster never taught? that's a lie.
traced back to canaan, son of ham who was the son of noah. in the story, a curse of black skin is placed on canaan to punish ham. it has since been named the "curse of ham". lds believed that canaan's wife egyptus was the descendant of cain which is how his seed survived the great flood.
children of canaan (& egyptus)... black skin is a curse and the seed of cain in lds theory.
quotes from your church history are in line with this theory.
tamasandy 7 months ago
@101mythbuster "In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the "servant of servants," and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2).
tamasandy 7 months ago
@tamasandy I had not received notification that you had posted these quotes, hence, my late reply.
You will notice in this quote, that the Mormons were known to their Missourian neighbors for their abolishonist views. Brigham seems to be only stating that getting involved in the slave issue would be useless, since he saw the situation as a fulfilment of God's decrees upon that race. He did not mean that it was permisable for the saints to own slaves. In fact, he denounced anyone who did.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster "You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Brigham Young, JOD, vol.7).
tamasandy 7 months ago
@tamasandy You will notice again in this quote, BY states that "the flat nose and black skin" is only a "mark," and not a "curse." He is not suggesting that these objectionable qualities found in "some classes of the human family" are a result of their skin color, or their belonging to an inferior race, but, as he stated on other occasions, as a result of them being deprived of the blessings of God due to the disobedience of their fathers, and their following in their incorrect traditions.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster "sometimes the truth can be difficult to accept..." yes, and sometimes it's not the truth.
you don't accept mainstream christanity because of its logical fallacies, but do not understand how someone can see the same in mormonism?
the story of the curse of ham specifically explains black skin as a curse.
curse of cain was never widely believed. most christians believed cains seed ended with the flood.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy "sometimes it's not the truth" God is not worried about being politically correct, just because some people find it offensive doesn't mean it's not the truth.
What logical fallacies do you see in Mormonism exactly? I see Mormonism as providing the answers which mainstream Christianity cannot.
"the story of the curse of ham specifically explains black skin as a curse" Really? Where exactly is this "story" found?
"curse of cain was never widely believed" FALSE.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster it seems i'm "hung up on skin color"? this video is addressing skin color. that's why we're talking about it.
majority of whites were racist in the 1800's and early 1900's... ok, agreed.
like i said before... the church members are not racist, the doctrine is.
"...black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of intelligence..." this doesn't explain an inferior race?
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy The focus of this video may be skin color but it's only because they're trying to sell the claim of Mormon racism, it has little to do with the real doctrine. If "the church members are not racist" and this doctrine is no longer relevant, what exactly is your issue?
"this doesn't explain an inferior race?" There are many classes of people from all races who fit this description, that doesn't necessarily mean they belong to a genetically inferior race. There's no such thing.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster "God is not worried about being politically correct, just because some people find it offensive doesn't mean it's not the truth." ...you've already stated this before and it doesn't mean it is the truth. also this is your opinion and not fact.
you believe in mormonism. therefore, you accept the answers they provide. all religion lacks in good logic.
i already explained the "curse of ham" story. read back.
curse of cain was widely believed by the lds, not the world.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy "this is your opinion and not fact" The same can be said of your opinion, what evidence do you have that this is not fact.
I asked you to provide a source for the curse of ham story, not to give me your fabricated version of it.
The split between the Northern & Southern Baptist arose over the curse of cain doctrine and its use to justify slavery. The doctrine was used to support a ban on ordaining blacks to most Protestant clergies until the 1960s in both the U.S. and Europe.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster "this doctrine is no longer relevant, what exactly is your issue?" ...it was taught wasn't it? so, your church is true, but wasn't necessarily true when the doctrine was being taught? that is the issue with your church history, it exists... and the present church contradicts its past.
i agree, no such thing as an inferior race. but,the quote was specifically about the "african race". again, not his personal feelings. but, supposedly "God's word" which is no longer taught/true.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy I said that the doctrine is no longer relevant beacause blacks are presently permited into the priesthood, not because what Mormon leaders stated in the past is no longer true. There is no contradiction when you view these quotes within the context of everything which they taught. Critics love to pick and choose statements which fit their contraversial claims and avoid telling the whole story. You say this is a racist doctrine, but it's clear that you know very little about it.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster "what evidence do you have that this is not fact." you ask this as if you have evidence it is fact or something is true unless proven false... either way, it remains an opinion. i don't claim any of my beliefs are fact. your church does... but still an opinion.
the problem with the curse of ham story is it is fiction. what i explained to you is merely what it became over the years and what many seemed to believe even without it being accepted as official doctrine.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@101mythbuster the doctrine is not longer relevant and never was. McConkie said, "Forget everything I have said, or what...Brigham Young...or whomsoever has said...that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world."...limited understanding = not true. what they previously taught was a racist doctrine simply because it was based on race. do you disagree with mcconkie?
i know all i need to know.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy Notice that McConkie qualified his statement by including only that which "is contrary to the present revelation." He's not necessarily referring to the priesthood ban or denying everything that's ever been said on the subject. He seems to be only referring to speculations given by church leaders as explanations behind the ban and which are in conflict with LDS revelation. Infallibility however, has never been a requisite for any duly ordained apostle or prophet in any age.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster "he's not necessarily referring to the priesthood ban or denying everything..." ...he's referring to any information given about blacks. either way, i don't feel forgetting what's been said is a good thing. as a religion, you are accountable for what is said/taught... especially from so-called prophets of God.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy It seems that you wish to apply modern day standards to people who lived in a different period in history. Even prophets themselves are a product of their generation. So maybe I agree that church leaders could have worded things alot better when touching upon this doctrine, but keep in mind that people back then expressed themselves differently and were not so worried about political correctness as today. It seems you're alot more worried about words than anything else.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster perhaps you're right. i may be judging them on the standards of today. but, i think that's the point. "even prophets themselves are a product of their generation...." i agree. this is why i believe they were mere men with opinions they thought were inspired by God. this is just my opinion on this matter. i just can't accept the modern day explanations of your church for its past. this seems to be a similar reason you find mormonism to be more valid than mainstream christianity.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy Maybe the reason that you have trouble accepting Mormonism is that your expectations are too unrealistic. I mean, what else would prophets be, if not "mere men"? It is absurd to think that prophets receive and speak revelation 24/7 and are never left to their own human understanding to ponder upon God's word. In reality, there is a vast difference between the revealed word of God through the prophets and the words of the prophets as men. Infallibile prophets do not exist.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster unrealistic? no, i'm just being realistic. yes, it's absurd to think that they speak revelation 24/7. many of the quotes that critics have issues with are not from small exchanges of words, conversations, bedtime stories... but from words spoken from a pulpit to a congregation, during conference, etc... aka adam-God, etc.? if this is not when these men are speaking for God, then when? it seems the church picks and chooses what is prophecy and what is not based on modern standards.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy Not every thing spoken from a pulpit is automatically considered doctrine, although, I do see how many people (including Mormons) could be inclined to have this expectation. However, it is an unfair expectation that can prevent us from seeing past human imperfections and recognizing God's true servants. In reality, the contraversial Mormon quotes which critics like to abuse and endlessly exploit are really few, and far in between.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster and what about words spoken at general conference?
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy When a prophet speaks as he is moved upon by the Holy Ghost, you can pretty much consider it scripture. However, it is only by that self same spirit that we can know if what is being spoken is really the word of God or not. I have been moved to tears many times during general conference while hearing the apostles speak and have a testimony of the power and authority of God vested in them. While they are by no means infallible, their minute errors are nevertheless a rare occurence.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
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tamasandy 6 months ago
@101mythbuster also, isn't a prophet a man who communes directly with God? have any of the mormon prophets other than joseph made this claim? you don't believe monson does, do you? and if he doesn't, then he would just be president of your church and not a prophet.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy Actually, there has been, in fact, many divine manifestations received by several of Joseph Smith's successors, although, maybe not so many as he himself received. This includes visions given to Brigham Young, John Taylor, Joseph F. Smith, Lorenzo Snow, Wilford Woodruf and others. These kind of manifestations, however, were suited for the restoration of the KIngdom and are not as essential as that revelation presently given by general authorities for the perfecting of the saints.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster so, do you believe monson speaks directly to God as the biblical prophets did and as joseph claimed to?
how would you explain brigham's adam-God doctrine?
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy God reveals himself unto men according to his own wiil, not according to the will of men. If God chose to reveal today new mysteries pertaining to his kingdom, he would only do so through his duly ordained mouthpiece. I do not know wether Thomas S. Monson has spoken directly to God or not and it makes no difference to me, because I know by the power of the Holy Ghost that he is the only man on earth today who holds the priesthood keys necessary to receive these things.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@tamasandy The Adam-God THEORY is actually not a doctrine, its existence is entirely derived from a handful of obscure statements made by Brigham Young with referrence to other related doctrines. It is quite possible that Young misinterpreted certain scripture passages about Adam to arrive at his conclusions, however, he also made many othe statements which seemingly contradict Adam-God. Since he never adequately expounded on these things, it is difficult to explain what he really meant by them.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster can you give any examples of any lds prophets (not smith) who gave an account of speaking directly with God? i don't think there's a single one. i think it does make a difference. that's what a prophet does... commune with God directly. if not, then he's no different than you or i.
adam-God is not accepted as doctrine. but, brigham did teach it as such. he taught it at general conference and members just didn't accept it. weird... modern day members (devout) wouldn't question.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy Once again, your concept of what a prophet is supposed to be is far from accurate. The principal role of a prophet is to bring men unto Christ and to teach his doctrine. Once the foundations of the kingdom have been laid, heavenly visions become less essential and would only serve to satisfy the lusts of sign seekers. The revelation which ended the ban on priesthood is said to have been a truly pentecostal experience and is a perfect example of continued revelation in the church.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@tamasandy It is said Joseph Smith received commandments from God "even as Moses." Admitedly, none of his successors can make this claim, however, if you require examples, I will refer you to one of Brigahm Young's revelations found in Sec.136 and also Joseph F. Smith's 1918 vision of the spirit world found in Sec.138. Several visions are also recorded in the personal journals of John Taylor & Wilford Woodruf, not to mention several accounts of apostles having sighted Christ in the SLC temple.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster far from accurate? uh... no. i see things my way, and you yours. we only have opinions here. you and your way is not right... neither is mine. we have our own perceptions and perspectives. you believe in your church. therefore, you believe what they say, how they defend their history, how they explain things, etc... i don't believe in your church and do not accept what you do. that is all.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy "we only have opinions here" Granted, but why do you assume that LDS don't have a personal testimony of these things and simply believe because church leaders tell them to. On the contrary, general authorities have made much emphasis over not depending upon borrowed light for our salvation. You wouldn't say that you believe the Bible simply because you've been told it's the word of God, would you?
You say this is only my opinion, but I say, I know it through personal revelation.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster there's no doubt you have a personal testimony. so does a muslim, jehovas witness, scientologist, etc... each religion "knows" they have the "truth" through personal revelation.
i've read the bible and the book of mormon. after praying, i sincerely do not believe either to be God's word. what would be your assessment of me then? is God not revealing "truth" to all who seek it?
from personal experience, i don't see how there could only be one way... perhaps this is my revelation.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy Like I said, many truths can also be found within other religions simply because of the fact that everyone has the light of Christ to witness these truths unto them. However, not everyone receives the same degree of light. While individuals of different religions can have a genuine testimony of the Bible for example, it doesn't prevent them from deviseing many erroneous ideas, hence, the wilderness of Christian sects. This is the principal reason preisthood authority is so essential.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@tamasandy As for your case, I gather, since you claim to have prayed about it, that you believe in the existence of a supreme creator, otherwise, your prayer was in vain. God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him. We can only come unto him on his own terms, as declared in his word. Therefore, we must be willing to let go of any preconceived notions and exercise faith inorder to obtain a witness. Faith preceeds everything. A true and lasting testimony is not gained over night.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster "over night"? i genuinely searched in faith and it was a very strenuous, but positive process. i attended church meetings, spoke often with a bishop, took institute, seminary, etc...
"diligently seek... come unto him on his own terms"? by the standard of your church, that's exactly what i did. i loved attending church, the people, the activities, etc... but, in the end, this was my answer. you may question, but my search was sincere. this was long before i read church history.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy (Mat.13:18-19) "Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side."
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster like i said, you may question, but my search was sincere. the answer i was given is that your church is not true.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy The answer you were given? By who?God? Which God? It sounds like you arrived at this conclusion through your own reasoning simply because Mormon teachings conflict with your own preconceived ideas. Somehow I doubt that being exposed to anti-Mormon literature had nothing to do with it. I realize that Baptism can be a real leap of faith to many investigators but the reality is that, without this crucial step, it is impossible to obtain a real testimony of the restored gospel.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster it's very interesting that you assume my answer couldn't have come from God and yours has. also, you argue with scripture that i don't believe in. shall i quote from a book you don't believe in to argue my point?
i don't believe what you do... i don't think the way you do... i didn't get the answer you did... and somehow, you doubt? surprise, surprise.
is there a reason why you can't accept that people have prayed about your book, your church, etc. and didn't gain confirmation?
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy I realize that many people have never received a confirmation of the restored Gospel and that is entirely their own problem. However, stating that one has received a divine witness that Mormonism is false is a completely different situation, especially, when it's from some unknown source you don't care to mention. That, I do not believe, in as much as I believe the witness which I have received from God. I can safely infer thereby that your claims (sincere or not) are simply untrue.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster how does it sound like i used my own reasoning? so, i'm lying? you're arrogant enough to presume to know the dealings and intent of another person. many say that mormons are judgemental... and this is why.
"without (baptism)... it is impossible to obtain a real testimony.." that is not true. if it were revealed to me that your church was true, i would have been baptized. if you choose to join before knowing it's true, you're a fool.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy Presuming somtheing is quite different than infering it from your statements. Not to mention, you've been very vague about your own beliefs. I don't pretend to know your intentions but when you claim to have received a witness that Mormonism is false, after telling you I've received a witness of its truthfulness, you're essentially calling me a liar. Clearly, one of us is full of crap. If Mormons come off as being judgemental at times, it's only due to our uncompromising convictions.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@tamasandy A person cannot wait around until they become convinced beyond a shaddow of doubt before they act. They must follow the promptings of the spirit into the waters of baptism before they lose this small window of opportunity and the advesary takes away what they've already received. (See Mat.7:14) Without the Gift of the Holy Ghost a person cannot possess an enduring witness of the true Gospel and is therefore left to his own judgement to seek after truth.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster there was no prompting of the spirit for me to be baptized. that is a fact and i would currently be a devout member had there been. the way i see it, no one is wrong. if that's how you perceive it, go ahead, but do not expect me to follow blindly when i have my own answer. full of crap? personal revelation has come to every religion, every culture, etc., maybe we're all full of crap. people won't believe what you do and will not receive the same witness you have. live with it.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy I don't expect you to follow anything blindly, on the contrary, I only want you to see what you so willfully refuse to see. This "no one is wrong" attitude is very diplomatic and politically correct but in reality there is no such thing as many paths to God, if that's what you're saying. Go ahead and quote from what ever book you want if you think it will convince me, but, if you're going to deny Mormonism at least say what I should believe in, otherwise, you have no credibility.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster that's completely fine. you think my claims are untrue? well, that's your opinion and your welcome to it. i still think your church is false.
i should say what you should believe in for me to have credibility? like i said before, we don't think alike... and in my opinion, that statement just sounds dumb. i don't have to tell you how to live your life. you don't have to tell me how to. i don't have to convince you of anything. you choose your own path. i choose mine.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy "we don't think alike" Well that's just stating the obvious. It would also seem that you wish to continue avoiding the question about your beleifs. Is the answer really that bad? Look, my point is simply this, how are you going to sit there and tell someone their religion is false without providing an alternative as to what they should beleive? Even the atheist have an answer for that.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster i did pray in the name of christ at the time.
i'm not telling you it's false. i'm telling you that i believe it is false. just as you believe it is true.
tamasandy 5 months ago
@tamasandy "i'm not telling you it's false. i'm telling you that i believe it is false" Sounds to me like you're not too sure. On the other hand, my belief in the Book of Mormon is such that I would be afraid to offend God and come under his condemnation were I to deny the truth which he has so oft made manifest unto me concerning it's veracity. I hope you can truly understand when I say to you that your mere opinion of Mormonism and my conviction of its truth, are not on equal terms.
101mythbuster 5 months ago
@101mythbuster again, more assumptions and bad logic. i believe it is false. you believe it is true. all wwe have is opinions as i've stated before. perhaps if i just got baptised for the heck of it, as you suggested, i would be offending God. i know your church is not true. you may think that the world is full of crap and wasting their time, but the feeling is mutual. your testimony and faith mean absolutely nothing to me.
tamasandy 5 months ago
@101mythbuster when other religions receive confirmation for their "truth", is that untrue? they're the ones wasting their time?
one thing i believe in, is that there isn't one way that every person in the world needs to or should live. there couldn't possibly be. there are places in this world where people are born, live a full life, and die of old age never hearing of christ, let alone joseph smith. you of course think they will gain "truth" in the next life... i of course disagree.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy I'm curious, you previously stated that you had prayed about the Book of Mormon once. I was wondering, since Moroni's promise clearly indicates to 'ask the Father in the name of Jesus Christ if these things be true,' how were you able to follow this formula without a belief in christ? Which I assume is the case due to your rejection of the Bible as the word of God, right? As I had suspected, it seems your trying to find God's truth on your own terms and not his.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster heavenly visions? ...not the same as conversing with God directly.
other religions have spiritual confirmation, revelations, visions, etc... are they "true" as well or confused?
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy LDS recognize that many truths can be found within other religions, however, because God is not the author of confusion, we do not consider their claims of spiritual gifts as being from God. Spiritual gifts are exclusive to Christ's true church and if they were also present in other religions, it would only mean that Christ is also divided. On the otherhand, the light of Christ that is in all men is a universal gift by which they are able to discern truth from error.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@tamasandy When I hear critics quoting church leaders to find fault in their words, it often brings to mind this scripture:
(Isaiah 29:20-21) "For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all THAT WATCH FOR INIQUITY are cut off: That make a man AN OFFENDER FOR A WORD, and LAY A SNARE for him that reproveth at the gate(the prophets), and turn aside the just for a thing of nought."
101mythbuster 6 months ago
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@tamasandy You will notice again in this quote, BY states that "the flat nose and black skin" is only a "mark," and not a "curse." He is not suggesting that objectionable qualities found in "some classes of the human family" are a result of their skin color, or their belonging to an inferior race, but, as he stated on other occasions, as a result of them being deprived of the blessings of God due to the disobedience of their fathers, and their following in their incorrect traditions.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).
tamasandy 7 months ago
@tamasandy "If the Government of the United States, in Congress assembled, had the right to pass an anti-polygamy bill, they had also the right to pass a law that slaves should not be abused as they have been; they had also a right to make a law that negroes should be used like human beings, and not worse than dumb brutes. FOR THEIR ABUSE OF THAT RACE, THE WHITES WILL BE CURSED, UNLESS THEY REPENT." Brigham Young, (8 March 1863) Journal of Discourses 10:111
101mythbuster 7 months ago
@tamasandy Just so that you don't misunderstand what Brigham Young meant by his statement, "the white man who belongs to the chosen seed" He is only referring to those Gentiles who have recieved the priesthood and thereby have been grafted into the Hosue of Israel. Young is merely making allusions to a time in ancient Israel, when death was the penalty for intermingling their chosen seed with the blood of the Cannanites, or are you also ignorant of these things?
101mythbuster 7 months ago
@101mythbuster you just went off the subject. didn't you ask, "Mormons have never taught that black skin is a "curse", where do you get this information from?"? well, i just told you where. are you too ignorant to understand this?
the information i gave answered your question and what you replied with does not refute the fact that blacks were taught to have been cursed and are the seed of cain in lds theory. you misunderstand.
i don't accept your opinion of what he meant by "chosen seed".
tamasandy 7 months ago
@tamasandy My mistake, I thought this was a random quote, I guess I missed the part where it said that black skin was a curse. For your information, dark skin is not in itself a "curse" but rather the "mark" intended to distinguish their lineage.
What I said about the "chosen seed" is not merely my opinion, it is LDS doctrine. BY is here making a distinction between common Gentiles, and those who have received the oath and covenant of the priesthood, and therby become the seed of Abraham.
101mythbuster 7 months ago
@tamasandy Also, the quote I provided was intended to show that despite Brigham Young's doctrinal views concerning the priesthood, he was not a racist by any definition, but often advocated in favor of African slaves. Visit blackldsDOTorg if you're serious about your objections and are not just trying to score points against the church. You will see exactly how LDS history compares with mainstream Christian history and US history, when it comes to racism during the 1800 and early 1900s.
101mythbuster 7 months ago
@101mythbuster you must've missed the other repliesi gave...
black skin has been taught to be a curse as i've already explained... curse of ham, etc.
i'll try and meet you in the middle here... the church leaders are not racist. there may be some that are, but that would be a personal thing. the teachings are based on race... aka racist. you have to accept that non-memebers will see it that way simply because your prophets are seen as mere men teaching something they don't believe in.
tamasandy 7 months ago
@tamasandy I have news for you, the vast majority of whites in the US during the 1800s and early 1900s were racist to some degree. The Ku-klux Klan was made up of members all belonging to various "Christian" denominations.(no Mormons by the way) The belief that blacks bore the curse of cain was held by almost all the churches well into the mid 1900s. Have you ever heard of Mormons persecuting blacks, or lynching and murdering them? Mormons racist? Spare me.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster you see this as God's revelation to his prophets and just a historical account of blacks on this earth. so technically, God would be the racist not the prophets giving the message. this is another reason why non-believers will not accept the teaching and also why many believers will have a loss of faith. racist or not, what it boils down to is accepting whether the doctrine and theology is from God or not. i do not. maybe you can at least see why others don't accept it.
tamasandy 7 months ago
@tamasandy God is not a respecter of persons and yet, he chose the people of Israel above all other nations, and the Gentiles found favor, only through their transgression. I can see if you were a person of African descent, how this doctrine might be difficult to accept and yet there are many blacks today who believe in the restored gospel. You're only using this as another excuse to reject Mormonism. Women are also not permited into the priesthood, does this make God a sexist too?
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster technically yes... by definition, withholding something from someone based on their sex would be considered sexist. women too have had their hardships in your church history apart from blessings such as the priesthood.
i don't need to be of african descent for this to be difficult to accept. i find it difficult to accept as a part of the human race. skin color is the result of time and evolution as it pertains to climate, etc... not a curse in anyway.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy Skin color has a natural explanation just as everything else which God does, but he did not create the different races out of boredom or without purpose. It seems that you are too hung up on the matter of skin color, as if this had anything to do with the matter. The "curse of Ham," which you mention in another post, pertains only to the right of receiving the priesthood. (See Abraham1:26-27)
As for women suffering hardships in the church, perhaps you care to elaborate.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
@101mythbuster you don't need to be of african descent or a woman to find mormonism difficult to accept. i do not find excuses to reject your church. based on its teachings and history, i just don't believe in it. that is all. just as you do not find excuses to reject islam, hindu, or santa clause. you just don't believe in them.
there are many logical fallacies in mormonism as with all religions.
tamasandy 6 months ago
@tamasandy Sometimes the truth can be difficult to accept for people who are unwilling to let go of their preconceived notions, however, I respect anyone who choses not to believe, as long as they don't go about trying to discredit other people's religion. But, speaking of "logical fallacies," this is precisely the reason that I have trouble accepting mainstream Christianity myself. Doctrines like Trinitarianism, ex-nihilo Creationism, etc. make absolutely no logical sense to me.
101mythbuster 6 months ago
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Watch on You tube: Craig Criddle on Who really wrote the BOM?
54v115 7 months ago
Thanks for exposing this cult! Excellent video!
Mormons = satans scum!
esh1 8 months ago
this guy is very ignorant. He should get the facts straight. He is twisting is to sound bad.
cymballiciouschick 9 months ago
haha- try having a conversation with a born again christian, a mennonite, or a nun or priest......they all hate people who are not like them or serve God like they do. :D LOL!!!! I obviously live in a bible belt. :P I might not be white but I maske good money and have a shit load of education in university and college. :D haha! when I sound stupid (like my post here :P) ..makes sense. HAHA XD wanna scare a christian? Just say "God is a bastard" haha! that easrned me an exorcism! XD
cubbycab 9 months ago
awesome video. its good to see some REAL facts in contrast to all the crap propaganda put up by mormons trying to deny their history.
lucy harris smart smart smart, martin harris dum,dum dum
nuthreatmediaphx 10 months ago
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the 3rd mormon president said blacks were on the earth to represent satan and white represented God. yes mormonism came out of a racist doctrine so did christianity. ppl used christianity to justify slavery and used the curse of cain to call blacks inferior and a cursed ppl. Islam is racist the religion made it legal for arabs to enslave africans. Religion itself is not bad, it is the men who make it bad. After all the suffering God has something special in store for the black race
aferg76 10 months ago
WHY did Joseph Smith CREATE the BOOK of MORMON? What did he gain from it? Please help me to understand this without the LDS dogma...thanks.
54v115 11 months ago
@54v115 He knows that the Bible is corrupted and he thought he could form society for good by using his mind given by God to write a book to guide the future(we can clearly see his by his teachings which are now seen as outdated even by the mainstream LDS church).
LifeLibertyLove 11 months ago
@LifeLibertyLove but is bullshit? no offense?
youngstormtaf 11 months ago
@youngstormtaf No the Bible is not bullshit, the way people interpret it today is bullshit. When the Bible was originally written it was mainly written in didatic form and not in history form. Some parts were but most is Didadic, people take the Didadic parts and make them historical when they are not.
LifeLibertyLove 11 months ago
@LifeLibertyLove didn't Jo smiths Bible version remain with the RLDS containing about 1200 changes by Jo, and the LDS took a revised Jo smith bible with only 600 changes by the top guys not trusting Jo's version to Utah? I read that in the History of the Church.. why didn't they trust their own prophet? Are some Mormon prophets trusted (and truer) more than other mormon prophets?
54v115 10 months ago
@LifeLibertyLove thanks.. i have more questions now.. sorry.
54v115 10 months ago
@54v115 Why are you sorry? What else questions do you have? PM me. I am not an expert on Mormonism but I have a very well rounded knowledge of world religions and God concepts.
LifeLibertyLove 10 months ago
@LifeLibertyLove Why would Joseph Smith in creating the Book of mormon during the 19th century, which is a claimed history of 'ancient america', why would he use 17th century english? I'm confused over this. Also, why was Joseph Smith allowed to add to the D+C in such as way as to say that God told his wife Emma, she must accept his other 'wives'?
54v115 10 months ago
@54v115 He made it 17th century english because it sounds more authoritative. Actually he did not use the 17th century english the King James Version of the Bible was ORIGINALLY written in, rather, he used a more "updated" version of 17th century english like we have in our updated versions of the King James Version's of the Bible in book stores today. He added to D+C in order to sound more authoritative in his orders and to use his religious status to have power over women he wanted as wives.
LifeLibertyLove 10 months ago
@54v115 money, sex and fame
nuthreatmediaphx 10 months ago
@54v115 he made it from the golden plates. because the bible had been changed around alot. it still had some truth in it, but it also had some lies and errors in it too
chadro85 3 months ago
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54v115 2 months ago
@chadro85 no-one ever saw the golden plates..I've read the witness statements of the three guys. They tell us that they saw the plates in vision, and never actually saw or handled the plates. I don't believe that J.Smith actually had the plates. Also, the Bible has retained it's integrity throughout, with minor errors.. caused regardless of faithfully reproduction across time, culture. The language barriers and all the syntax and semantic challenges put to the scriveners didn't change content.
54v115 2 months ago
@54v115 well other people obviously saw them because we still have them
chadro85 2 months ago
@chadro85 - No-one saw them.. none of the entire witnesses.. it tells you this in the witness statements in the Book of Mormon and the LDS church certainly do not have the golden plates or any artifacts for that matter. Wouldn't you think they'd show the plates, if they really could show them to validate their claims?
54v115 2 months ago
@54v115 no the lds church really does still have the plates. they mite not show them to the public. but that doesn't mean their a lie. i mean they've even told us where they are how much more info do you need. and besides seeing isn't always beileveing you know. even if they did show them to the public their would still be haters, anti-mormons, etc.
chadro85 2 months ago
@chadro85 Not according to Jo Smith Jnr himself... nor ANY president of the LDS church. you will believe anything I'm sorry to add. i'm sorry if you disagree, but I undertake extensive research using LDS sources before i comment. I suggest you do the same!
54v115 1 month ago
@54v115 know i really know were they are. i can even tell you, where and how to get there.
chadro85 1 month ago
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This is why the state of AZ who is 80%LDS is so f'ed up. Its run by most of these SELF RICHIOUS ,water walking fake kooks. Racist kooks. Its so funny cause their fair skinned white and delightsome women like that dark meat in secret.
Rafa38 1 year ago
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Rafa38 1 year ago
The Church of Satan of latter day saints.
wachnathan 1 year ago
@wachnathan that was a bit rude.
cymballiciouschick 9 months ago
@cymballiciouschick Just a little ya!
wachnathan 9 months ago
@wachnathan no
chadro85 3 months ago
meriting where you are born sounds like reincarnation (hinduism, buddhism, etc)
Dadutta 1 year ago
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El mormonismo es palabrerio decorativo porque alguien de la iglesia lo manda quien escuche esto sepa que los juramentos de la masoneria que practican en el templo, los brazos en escuadra y los disfraces blancos y verdes no traen salvacion a la vida de las personas, tampoco un Dios verdadero necesita de gente tan ridicula como sus representantes en la tierra.
HdeMILP 1 year ago
mormon theology is the biggest bunch of ignorant hocus pocus I have ever heard..
catdreaminginthesun 1 year ago 5
i use to work in the place and the owner was a mormon and most of the workers too,and the owner had this thing that he always had his favorites..you could definetly say he was ahead of his head, he had this ishue of pride,he was fake,and so on..so he had superwiser who was black,one day i heard that the black guy was fired al because he didnt say hi to the customer,when there is bunch of them and you cant just go and say hi to each one of them.if that was the case then we all should be fired
meyaxshavat 1 year ago
I believe blacks are inferior but it has nothing to do with religion, I am an evolutionist. I believe the blacks who stayed in Africa were left somewhere behind on the evolutionary scale. I believe whites and east asians are the most evolved of all races.
SuddenCatharsis 1 year ago
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TheStephen2009 1 year ago
@SuddenCatharsis yes and that is why nazis and KKK believe it too ... the idea that one race is better than any othe race is dumb as Hell and has lead to murder and Death camps ! read your history , MORON !
It is also one of the reasons why I do not Believe in Evolution !
TheStephen2009 1 year ago
@TheStephen2009 Evolution is science, science is indifferent. You are rejecting reality (science) because it goes against your moral beliefs? Most scientists agree that all humans have a common ape ancestor and human life started in Africa. These original primitive humans spread out across the world and evolved while the ones who stayed behind (blacks), were left behind in the evolutionary game. Call it what you may, but its the truth.
SuddenCatharsis 1 year ago
@SuddenCatharsis YEA, YEA , YEA ! THe blacks are sub human ... Hear that before !and the Ugly Nazi thinking is what you call Science ! Give me a Break !
I Guess you are one of them who think the Jews are sub human too !
No I do not reject Science per say but I do reject your nazi like Science for moral reasons !
no , it is your truth which is so backwards and racist that is wrong !
TheStephen2009 1 year ago
@SuddenCatharsis one more thing ... I Believe in Human Rights and I and others like me look down on people like you for the race haters you are ! Black people are equal to all other races ! when you get rid of you race hating and come to join the Human race ! I wil be there to welcome you !
TheStephen2009 1 year ago
@TheStephen2009 Your fallacy is believing that I have hatred inside of me. Unlike you I don't base my beliefs on emotion. I consider myself fully rational and have reached my conclusions on race based on cognitive reasoning and evolutionary principles. You can continue living in your fairy tale world though where we're all created "equal" and the only differences are on the surface.
SuddenCatharsis 1 year ago
@SuddenCatharsis yea, yea, yea I hear you ... nothing New !!!
TheStephen2009 1 year ago
@SuddenCatharsis the nazis thought they were fully rational and base their conclusions on race based on cogniitive reasoning and evolutionary principles and look what happend to them !
I am reminded the way people acted in the south with " the blacks are lazy , they can not learn , they are lower than the APES on the evolutioary line , and Boy they were wrong !
I am living in a Fairy tale world ... Really ! Then you never were told about US History did you ?
TheStephen2009 1 year ago
@TheStephen2009 just to complete your toghts:
everithing hitler did in the nazi germany was legal!!! becarefull for whom your vote!!!
dontmiss 1 year ago
@TheStephen2009 just to complete your toghts:
remember every thing hitler did in the nazi germany was legal!!! be carefull for whom your vote!!! mormons are very fascist like church!
dontmiss 1 year ago
@SuddenCatharsis
Besides Egypt, two other Empires in Africa were officially Christian, Those were modern day Ethiopia, as well as Kush(Ancient Ethiopia). Educate yourself mate life is too long to let hatred root itself in your life.
housepate1 1 year ago
@SuddenCatharsis
You may know evolution, but you know very little about history. The Blacks were among the first to form advanced civs with advanced mathematics and architecture. Heard of Kush, Tau Seti, (Predates Egypt)? As far as God what God thinks of Blacks, I see you are not familiar with the Bible or the history of Christianity. If so you would know that Africa in the OT was usually mentioned favorably by God, and Africa was one of the first places that Christianity rooted itself.
housepate1 1 year ago
..unbelievable, that's right, mormons in those times needed to "get a life" BIG TIME! how in the h... could they believe in such a crap...
1231violin 1 year ago
@1231violin your troll'in youtube and your saying mormons need to get a life. wow bro nice. lol
chadro85 3 months ago
Jesus was a jew in the middle east, so he was not "white and delight-some"... wopps!
MrHappiness777 1 year ago 3
Sounds a lot like the SDA church. Ellen White wrote about some garbage on Amalgamation. Sick minded people.
KingdoMentality 1 year ago
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The church does not believe that all other races are evil. the church believes that the evilness of people is what brought different colored skins amount the people. If you are going to listen to someone bashing the book of mormon, make sure that he actually knows what it is talking about
shorty9623 1 year ago
Did you not realize you just agreed with what you are disagreeing with?
praestant8 1 year ago 7
You are trying to justify something that is pointless and just does not make sense, remember it all came from the same person who wrote that there are beings inhabiting the moon who dress like quakers...pure 19th century folklore.
TheEyesOfSam 1 year ago 5
@TheEyesOfSam Lol! The beings on the moon dressed as quakers theory of Joseph just makes me laugh hard but throw up at the same time because i know millions of innocent people still believe his crap, like most of my family :(
crazy456eyes 1 year ago
your right the church doesn't teach that but its prophets used to, and the Book of Mormon supports the idea that Blacks are cursed by Cains sin!
philosophizer149 1 year ago
@philosophizer149 but mormons are not racist
chadro85 3 months ago
....and they call this the most correct translation...man I think someone from the KKK wrote this.
bigbear6718 1 year ago 7
@bigbear6718 you don't know mormons if you think that
chadro85 3 months ago
mormons are the ultimate wolves in sheeps clothing. they seem so kind and loving but when you start to learn there doctrines you can see how vile they really are.
DallasTheGreat28 1 year ago 24
I agree - you got to look behind the Lies to see the truth !!!
TheStephen2009 1 year ago 4
@TheStephen2009 Oh and what is the truth, enlightened one. Are you denying that race exists? There are more differences than just skin color. Blacks are not simply darkly pigmented whites.
SuddenCatharsis 1 year ago
@SuddenCatharsis the truth is God does not see race when it comes to believeing in jesus christ and there is no places just for blacks , just for whites , just for any other race in heaven ! all who come and stand before God are in his eyes just believers in Jesus Christ !
Do I deny that race Exists ... NO I don;t ! that is a thing Satan use to keep people who are believe in Jesus Christ apart ! it is the same thing as the sin game , the race game , the class game , the money game !
TheStephen2009 1 year ago
@DallasTheGreat28 -- I thought that politicians were the ultimate sheep in wolves clothing ?? Mormons are too huh ??
JSeely218 9 months ago
@JSeely218 Imagine Mitt Romney, he is a multilayered sheep/wolve kind of bastard, a matiushka layered sanna da bich :D
QuantumProphet 7 months ago
@DallasTheGreat28 not really.
chadro85 3 months ago