Btw is "College" in the US the same as in Britain/Australia meaning its ages 16-18 what we call "high school" in Norway, or is College the same as University?
It's kind of strange, in the US the most professors (from outside perspective) are teaching the benefits of socialized healthcare, while in Norway most of our professors (at least in political science/political economics) are teaching the downsides of socialized healthcare. Free healthcare is not a collective good since its not Pareto-effective. Empirically socialized healthcare leads only to rise in prices and lower capacity, not to speak of the powerfull government medical unions.
Oh man the guy asking questions at around 25 minutes in is hilarious. It's a perfect juxtaposition of Conservative/Liberal point of views. He asks some lengthy question about evil companies jacking up the price in Ohio. You have a common sense counterpoint for everything he says and he admits it may be true every time while trying to sound as intellectual as possible.
I kept waiting for the audience to laugh but i didn't really hear any :(
Great questions and answers session. You really expressed your arguments well. The arguments to the contrary were simply based on ideal but impossible scenarios. I live in the UK where there is a free health care system. But I hope once I get a good enough job I can get private medical insurance because I know the standards on private medical care will be higher, I'll have greater choice and be able to receive care quickly.
State and Federal laws dictate the products private insurance companies offer. It is not a free market in the least. So insturance is very overpriced because of the government mandates.
Insurance companies cannot deny care. They can only deny payment. Whether they pay or not is a contractual obligation. Their decisions are not made on some "worthyness" criteria as one student implied. But government can and does deny service by force of arms.
Listening to those kids asking a question was absolutely brutal. If you have your hand raised to ask a question please be ready to ask it. Listening to them "uhh, mmm, like, uuhh." I'd rather listen to finger nails on a chalk board.
This is the most uninteresting talk I have ever heard! I'm really glad that we have this guy to "keep it real" against all those liberal professors, so he can tell us about how firefighters are not conscripted into service, but that they actually voluntarily choose their careers, just like everyone else.
You are so off that you even don't get it yourself... You probably delete this comment, but what the hell. Look to norway, hell... I can choose between litteraly hundreds of doctors where I live, choose one of them as my regular. If I don't like that doctor, I can change. To keep people from abusing the system, we have a realtivly small fee so that nobody overuses their doctor. This is about 20$ or so.
@supbabys530 I can try, the first half was somewhat a rant becouse I don't like this guy, and that he is wrong on his assumtions.
Then I went on to tell about the norwegian health care system. Here, we have lots of doctors to choose from, and we can change our regular if we don't like the one we have. The doctor is in principle free, but you'll have to pay a small fee when visiting, so that people don't go to the doctor when they don't need to. This fee is about 20 usd
Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.
- Winston Churchill
Churchill's point was easy enough everyone that is young is to some degree liberal because they are naive, we all believe when we are young that there must be a way to end everyones suffering because everyone is inheritly good, while older ppl have lived life and understand that everyone is indeed the opposite, that is called wisdom
If you are unfamiliar with Oberlin, in the 80's it's nickname was "Moscow West"...and they were proud of it. Hard to believe Michelle Malkin made it out of these alive.
Where does this crap come from that those who can not afford it do not get it? what the hell do they think Medicaid is? there are plenty of free services for anyone who is poor. Are they high quality? no, but I'd rather the poor who can't afford it have the crappy quality than it being what everyone gets.
Your answers were poor and incoherent ramblings at times; talking points strung together and void of structure. Some of your replies resembled regurgitated conservative talk radio programs.
Too bad for your dumb ass that everything he said is true. It's not just talking points, it' s a reality wherever it's been applied. How about you go to your job (if you even have one) and just work for nothing because your services might be a "Right" to someone.
no, his replies were based in simple economics...which you are obviously too stupid to understand, and judging by your weak response , unable to counter with a logical argument.
"Stupid" "weak" "dumb ass". Yeah, I can see I'm dealing with two intellectual power-houses here.
It was constructive criticism, but you two are too blinded by the worship of conservative talking heads to see that's all it was- constructive criticism.
The reason why conservatives have similar talking points is that we base are policies on reality and fact where as liberal policies are emotional and ideological. So of course it sounds similar, a duck is a duck and soicial security is going bankrupt.
Lee, your responses were not very good. But the kids questioning were also complete idiots. Lee, you should have conceded that their is not practical way of privatizing police or fire departments. Put your ideological purity aside and concede that some basic functions of society have to either be run or funded by the government. Healthcare, I agree, should not be run by the state, but that doesn't mean the state has no roll is helping those uninsured through a voucher system.
The problem with privatizing civil-service is introducing a non-profit entity and enrolling it into a private corporate entity that is destined to seek a profit. Although the alternative is a gov't entity that cant be trusted in spending tax payers money effectively. Bottom line is we(the tax payers) lose.
Ideoligically...gov't cant run anything. $436 for a hammer $640 for a toilet seat. Think about it.
...provision of services, you ought to oppose the state itself, since it is nothing but a legal monopoly on the provision of certain services deemed "essential" by some part of the population. This is why conservativism and Cato libertarianism is a joke.You can hardly go after the left for it's coercive use of the state when you yourself are in favor of the same coercion in order to forward certain ends. But why should the military be regarded as more "essential" than healthcare?
Military as a private market would is essentially gangs and war lords... Have you thought out what could happen when we have different military services competing for contracts?
I'm sorry but private companies should not have armies. If citizens want to form militias I'm fine with that. But what happens when a competing company becomes too powerful? Let me give u a hint. They have an army.
Legitimate businesses can't afford armies like we understand them. Not an offensive force. They're too expensive. Defensive weapons on the other hand, are relatively cheap. It's kind of why modern insurgencies are so impossible to defeat. The only way you can amass an army that can conquer and subjugate people is with tax dollars.
What do we do when a foreign invader imposes its government on the anarchy you are suggesting? I would rather make our own government the way we want to insure this does not happen.
How is it "inconsistent" and "a joke" to be in favor of the least government intervention possible in our individual lives? Yes, some government institutions are always going to be necessary, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't look to limit its influence whenever we can.
Also, there is a difference between the military, the police, the fire department and health care.
Fires spread, meaning its not just your property, but that of the entire community that is at risk. The same goes for the military and police: they are means to protect the community as a whole from harm.
Healthcare is a personal issue. If my neighbor breaks his leg, it does not effect the entire community. I am under no obligation to pay for his rehabilitation.
"Healthcare is a personal issue. If my neighbor breaks his leg, it does not effect the entire community. I am under no obligation to pay for his rehabilitation."
Except that he doesn't die on the spot and pay for his burial in his own backyard. He likely goes to the ER and charges those bound by the Hippocratic oath (Read: the city) for the most expensive and life-sustaining treatment available. It's a shame he couldn't afford that Boniva prescription the doctor always recommended...
...more services. The fact that many fire departments are voluntary is irrelevant, some are not. Also the fact that people can voluntarily become police or not become police is beside the point. What's at issue is whether all services (including police services per se) should be aranged on a voluntary contractual basis (individual to individual) or whether some should be forced upon all. Mr Doren, you are in favor of such coercion, just not for the same stuff! If you oppose the coercive...
The girl makes a good point Lee, one you ought to be familiar with. The "services" that the state provides for us are not provided by voluntary agreement (you cannot choose to contract your own police forces in place of those police whom operate under the aegis of the state.) Liberals (socialists) are simply more consistent on this point. They reason like so: "If people are forced to use state courts, police and mail services, whether or not they want to, why not force people to pay for even...
This is the product of parents giving control of the entire education of their children to the public system. It also sounds like these kids smoke a lot of pot.
apparently you glazed over the point that Lee made stating that the reason we spend more than socialized countries is that those countries implement price caps. There is a difference between what something costs and what is paid.
The reality of liberty is self-evident, one must pervert their mental understanding in order to avoid it. Seems like these students are doing a good job at that.
man i feel sorry for you Lee Doren, you had to sit through those kids who cannot take freedom seriously. They are immature fucks who seriously probably wont get it. Best of luck in educating them. I mean your points were spot on, facts, logic, reason, yet these people cannot figure it out.
man these kids are seriously fucking brainwashed by this socialist type mentality. Man how can these stupid ass kids not figure it out. Socialism is such a failure (well cept for ants/bees/termites) and the fact of this should point out that it can and never will work unless people totally change there mind sets. Which wouldn't happen anytime soon since man never dreams of being enslaved.
They keep going back to the argument of police officers.
Police officers enforce the law. They are not body guards, and they are not our protection. They are not required to protect us, that is not their job. Some officers/departments make it policy to do so, but that is not the responsibility of the police.
So the argument that under free market logic, it would be better to "privatize" security is bogus because we do not have government provided security in the first place.
we know to what extent we are willing to pay for other peoples healthcare. This is called charity. Everything else that we would tax people would be what we are not willing to pay. Thats why it would have to be mandatory. Everybody is free to donate whatever they want and if they feel like poor people shouldnt suffer they can help them out with their own money.
How is this so hard for people to understand that because of government our healthcare is so fucked up,, and that socialized medicine will only make things worse. Im only 26 but damn i figured this shit out years ago. They sound like college kids, which is sad, they are probably brainwashed by the professors and the educational system. And the fucking kid at like 25 mins in, what a fucking douchebag attitude, trying to make himself seem smarter than he really is, pathetic
Lee, I can't believe that you were proud of your response to her very logical question. She called you on a major flaw in yours (and many other conservative/libertarian's) thinking. Mark Levine ends every program lauding government workers (soldiers, cops, firemen) even though he spends every minute of the program saying that government is bad.
Because protecting citizens from internal/external harm is a proper role of government. Picking winners and losers, redistributing wealth is not. Limited government is a necessary evil in a free society, no Conservative/Libertarian has ever stated that "government is bad". It's inefficient compared to the private sector.
Excellent, Notyourfriendbuddy, then you will agree with me that protecting citizens from the external harm of viruses or from other citizens who may carry viruses is a role of government.
How do you feel about Education as a role of government? What about creating roads? Not sure what harm they are protecting us from by building roads, perhaps we should privatize all roads.
One thing I would have added to the second gentleman you were speaking with about health care is this: You're saying that since we all pay into health care with our tax dollars then we're essentially paying for our health care. The problem is where is the personal choice/freedom to decide whether you want health care or not. Right now we can chose. With this new tax-funded plan we have no choice whether we want it or not.
31:49 i'd love to hear your explanation on how you can cherrypick ideals out of Objectivism and stay logically consistant. It's a closed loop system, its not open for debate. At the fundamental level, you either agree, or disagree. While I'm glad you promote Ayn Rand, don't do it so half heartedly!
@ 15:50 lee, this question goes back to the proper role of government in a free society. What is the definition of govt? What makes them special? The ability to use retaliatory force. Police, military, these are instruments of force, they're there to protect you from people who would take away your rights. Doctors do not fall into this category of protectors of rights. HUGE difference, that I don't think you're explaining very well.
the kid at like 25 minutes in, u destroyed him. I hated his attitude that he had, this 'smarter than you' attitude. These people always show the arrogance of there true nature when they talk. Good job sir in taking him to school.
i've heard of T Sowell, but never read any of his books, if you suggest it though, i'll look it up and give it a read.
EIOL was really the first economics book I ever read. It really opened my eyes to Opportuinty Cost. Something I think most people are completly illiterate to. I'm sure if you would have asked the audience to explain why going around and breaking glass was not a good way to create jobs, they would've had a hard time explaining the concept of O.C
There is an excellent essay that talks about the broken window fallacy, taxes, standing armies... It talks about much of what is in EIOL, with some other stuff as well. EIOL is a great introduction to Austrian economics.
I agree that Sowell's Basic Econ is better than EIOL. I think EIOL, while it played an important role in the modern history of libertarianism in the US, is not a good book for the average young person today. Hazlitt's language is awkward for modern readers, and the set of popular anti-capitalist fads has changed somewhat since the 40s.
My question for you is: Is the 3rd edition of Sowell's book significantly different from its previous editions? (I have the 1st edition.)
lee - you should've called out the first questioner more harshly! You started down the right path but didn't go far enough. What is it called when you force a person to work for no money? Slave labor. If I walk into a computer repair shop with my broken computer and a gun, tell the man working there to fix it with the threat of violence, what has that person become? My slave. It's very simple. Rights are the right to ACTIONS, not GOODS. Very different things.
I never intended to watch more than 3 mins (standard YouTube attention span) of these two videos. But the discussion was so compelling, I found myself watching both in their entirety. I thought they were quite informative and useful.
Great idea the Demotards have- Pay the best Doctors same as the worst ones and not much more than a union factory worker with a HS diploma.. After all, Why reward talent, skill, hard work and achievement or even compensate it? Why even train American docs. Let the government import them from the the poorest third world nations like the Brits. Horay for Dr Nick from the Simpson's type Doctors or Abo treating you from the back of the Quickemart. I am not kidding considering what I have seen!
The thing that that the Demofools & socialized medicine Kool-aid drinkers fail to understand that this is not an experiment that can be reversed if and when it destroys the quality and availability of the medical care that most Americans are accustomed. They will not even get a system as good as Britain which would be unacceptable to most Americans accustomed to convenience, choice and quality.
I'd almost feel sorry for Mr Doren for wasting his time, but he chose to do this...
Those are not college students, there college kids...
Listening to some of there idiotic arguments, and just in general nonsense... They have not lived at all. Or studied any history at all either for that matter.
I am afraid that Lee is a prophet of doom, and such are cursed to be a voice in wilderness with few heeding their warnings about the consequences of their folly.
I think he's just speaking common sense not so much a "prophet of doom."
Its like pointing and saying.. "Hey! there's a bluff there.. don't go that way. "
And they head that way anyhow.
At least hes trying to spread some info. The way the system is set up now. It drags everyone down, not just the idiot individuals who support these damn schemes. *sighs*
isn't everything rationed? not everyone will get sick at the same time just as not everyone needs police assistance 24/7. surely epidemics will arise as do riots or instances of great civil unrest but why wouldn't doctors be able to disband as the police did during katrina?
I grew up 15 minutes from Oberlin college, and this was exactly the questions I was expecting from the students. Their questions definitely gave me a good laugh....
Lee...Thanks for this gem! I will be posting it to facebook as soon as the new steven crower detroit video has been up long enough. I wish had the time to really dig down into these subjects like you do. Keep up the good work!
In follow up to my last comment: Let's apply that same analogy to some of the UAW union workes. What would happen if we said, "Ok, you can be a factory worker making $70 / hr with great benefits...but you have to work the factory for 12-15 yrs for free...then you'll only get $17.50 / hr. But, oh yeah, you still have to pay the $200,000 loans that kept you alive and trained you for this job."
Cap the prices and only pay Doctors a small salary. Right?
How would that work telling a prospective healthcare provider, "Ok. You can be a doctor. You're going to school for 12-15 yrs of education after highschool. Oh, and you won't get paid during that time, AND when you reach the end of that training, we the government, have decided you will only get paid 1/4 of what you thought you would to pay off your $400,000 debt."
It seems like they don't even acknowledge your points after you've made your case. Hopefully you convinced some students that didn't ask questions to at least look at the liberal views of their authority figures critically.
blowing minds in ohio, huh lee? good to see you moving about. i'm sure your legs are tired from running all the way to oberlin... or did you finally fix your car? many thanks
I love Q&A sessions... They are one of the best indicators of the level of knowledge a person has on a particular subject, and Lee passed with flying colors...
Great video... Actually, this kinda hit home with me... My American History professor recently told me that he wanted Communist Manifesto and Das Capital to be required reading for 3rd and 4th graders! WTHECK man!!! Luckily my paper on Ronald Reagan and supply side economics didn't effect my grade lol!
lol this budd fellla seems like a dbag, so dont stress about him lee....when people cant pose valid arguments they just start to take a jab at a person.....i think a 10 year old could destroy that kid in a debate when he acts like canada doesn't have to ration care, (aka have the governement decide who does and doesnt get certain medical services, not the doctor and the patient) so dont waste your energy man...keep up the good work
Wait a minute. Did you just say, "It's illegal not to get care once you go to the hospital"? But you said it's "ridiculous to think that one should have the right to the services of someone else! So why would it be illegal to deny care to someone at the hospital, Lee? Shouldn't the doctors get to decide who gets to live and die? I'm downloading this; I think I'll have some fun with your contradictions. Thanks, Lee!
You do realize that you'd be doing two things in the video:
1) You'd demonstrate your own absurdity with not understanding why they are not mutually exclusive;
2) You'd end up making an argument for many labor strikes being illegal without realizing it. I'm not sure if you realize who is going to be making the contradiction.
Lee, in all seriousness: Merry Christmas. As absurd as your views are, I think you're a decent person who wants this country to be better. I hope this is a good year for you and I wish you all the best.
This is so fun to watch. OH yes, were going to pay an "infinite amount on health care" LOL Who could pay an infinite amount? You're so pathetic at this, Lee. You must have been embarrassed.
Lee, if it's any consolation, I actually feel bad for you as I watch this. I'm sure you were paid well for your sad performance so that must have made up for your loss of dignity.
I love how you share your ignorance of universal health care with us and pretend that some government bureaucrat is going to decide care when that's not the case anywhere. Even in Canada, which has one of the worst universal health care plans, decisions are made by doctors and patients, unlike here where some insurance bureaucrat decides what tests and procedures you and I can have.
Im canadian and im proud of my universal health care! Yes it could be better but you dont know all the facts. We do have privatized dental and im goin to cuba next month to get my teeth fixed. The waiting list that you keep hearing about is not what you think it is. If you need open heart surgery you get it.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Lee, maybe you're not aware of this simple fact but the US has been bankrupt for sometime. So why pretend that universal health care is going to bankrupt us? I don't even need to mention the huge mountain of debt our government owes, either. Right now the average consumer debt of an American family is 120% of their average income. During the great depression it was like 20%. This whole society is built on a deck of credit cards and there's no way were ever paying it back. Nixon admitted as much
I have to hand it to ya Lee.. I couldn`t, well wont, spend my time dealing with idiots anymore over this stuff. I become more like my Dad every years - more and more private about my political beliefs. It`s just so hard to weed through the dogma and ignorance to find a person really interested in truth. Good on ya for fighting the good fight. And I hope you find more liberals really interested in actually debate. It`s like finding a soul mate.. rare!!
Lol I remember challenging you to a debate when I was at 100 subs. You laughed at me and refused.
Now, I see you have a different tune; what has changed?
BTW: You cannot even explain how I got my "ass handed" to me because you only wish it were true. Just like your wish that the CNT weren't oppressive authoritarian monsters and Anarcho-Syndicalism is a pipe dream of misery.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Lee, I refused because you didn't have a specific point of debate. You just wanted to debate. Oh, yes, the evil CNT. LOL. I'm sure you'll be in the New York area soon enough. Let me know, I'd love to see ya.
As to you getting your ass handed to you, watch how you answer the first question. You back pedal like crazy and don't make a lick of sense. Would you like to go back to the days we had private fire companies in this country? Answer t hat.
No, you challenged me to a "debate" when I pressed you as to what we might debate you gave me a huge list of possible things that were as broad as one could imagine. I destroyed you on the issue of DDT and you ignored it, which was smart on your part since you couldn't possibly refute my arguments.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Lee, your answer to the first question is my example. The fact is, we as tax payers have decided that certain things, like protection from fire and murder, shouldn't be left to private entities and so they are public services. You simply skirted the question with a bunch of nonsense because you clearly were not prepared to answer the question.
1) The idea that fire is public, and we don't buy insurance isn't true because:
a) Most fire departments are voluntary
b) Your homeowners insurance has a clause to protect against fire damage;
c) As an aside, fire is local.
I couldn't have addressed it more directly. So, either you turned the video off after the question, and plugged your ears for my answer, or your being intentionally absurd.
Lee, had a little trouble with that first question, huh? Got your ass handed to ya. I'd love to be at one of these. Any chance of that? I'd destroy you quite easily.
Using police as an example is totally unfair. Policeman our an enforcement arm of government law established by the people as a whole in order to protect our rights. That is constitutional and completely in line with the founding fathers vision for our country. Government protection of our natural rights is a necessary evil. Healthcare is a responsibility that one must provide themselves not a right.
"Canadian's go to buffalo for care when they need it," well i would guess so since Canadian's need to go see our doctors you keep stealing from us.
As for its not inequality if A Canadian has a large sum of money and chooses to speed up the process by dipping into their funds, they can choose so but in the meantime the poor may have to wait a few extra weeks to a couple months for health care but at least they are still covered under health care
'Canadian's need to go see our doctors you keep stealing from us.'
thats idiotic. if we pay more than Canada can to the doctors in this country, it's not theft, it's free market. This is the main reason I see socialized medicine as failing, because doctors work long and hard to get their degrees. The classes and schools are expencive, the hours are long and the people dealt with are unforgiving. of course they go where they're paid best
Apparently you take the wording of "stealing" literally more then the metaphoric meaning of the general premise which is intended. I totally agree that it is free market and perfectly o.k to pay more for doctors but when the costs become to high what are the costs? affordability?..you claim you can afford to pay doctors more but can you? with indecisiveness and debt ,, going on those 2 things alone it seem not
You should have brought up the fact that police "service" is horrible. If a thief is determined to rob your house, he will rob it. Unless by shear luck, a cop drives by while your house is being robbed, you'll come home with all your stuff gone. You would also have to be extremely lucky for law enforcement to investigate and eventually find your stuff and catch the thief.
With a public health care system, your doctor will just give you a pill when you're sick. Crappy service.
hmmm. some good questions, some really simple-minded liberal questions, tough touchy issue.
I understand why liberals want this current reform. What they don't understand (generally) is that conservatives are all for reform too. Liberal leaders preach reform for the greater good, when they mean greater power.
Conservative leaders stand in the way of that power grab, and are demonized for it.
Everyone check out my video response and link in the video sidebar. The video is titled "medicare for all" and the article in the sidebar explains exactly how medicare works and why it should not be expanded.
I love the morons who make stupid comments on you videos when they don't know a goddamn thing about politics. I've been listening to politics my whole life now that obama is president suddenly everyone is up in arms and they think they know everything. I'm not insulting you Lee its just funny to watch people make fools of themselves.
Since Obama's come on the scene, the stakes have never been higher. Its a silver lining to the dark cloud that is this president and the current ultra left congress, that people are interested in what their "leaders" are up to. And right now, our leaders are going against what the populace wants, they're spending more than ever...this has got to stop.
I agree with you no doubt. But whats gonna happen when obama is gone. You think people will stop worshiping celebrities and start worshipping Ben Franklin and George Washington. Cause thats the reason why we are losing our country. Otherwise another obama will come along.
It was actually the people who support obama is who I was reffering to. Everytime I read these comments there always some moron liberal who gives you fake facts and all of sudden he knows more then you. But I agree with you.
I appreciate what you are doing Lee. However, I'd like to make a suggestion on the argument with police and fire service in relation to health care. I don't think arguing the logistics purely on a free market real strikes at the root of the issue.
The difference between police and fire vs Federal Health coverage is which governing body has the authority to administor these programs. States and local government provide police/fire. The Federal Government can't legally provide any of it.
I'm an MD in a poor, rural area of northeast Ark. and I can tell you for a fact that we WILL loose our older most experienced MDs as they are NOT going to work for the gov. I know as they are all telling me this in the AM when I make my hospital rounds. The frustration level is so high that many are simply going to retire. We don't have enough MDs as it is so get ready for the gov. to flood the country with foreign medical grads to take their place. Isn't socialism GREAT!!
Around 9:30 the student is basically comparing government-run versus private... all you had to do was explain that with private providers there is competition between them, so regardless of the similarities between private and GR, you have options with GR because they have to compete. That is of course one of the biggest problems with anything that is centralized, is that it doesn't have to compete.
And thus can do whatever it deems right, necessary, etc. They make an arbitrary limit so we don't have to pay ever-increasing taxes and as a result there is less research, less innovation, less people in the medical field in general, worse treatment in general, etc. etc. Also the govt. is forced to create endless rules and whatnot under which people can / can't get care, priority based on whatever it deems just, etc.
The comparisons between the police/fire department to doctors is not a good one and yet multiple people used the same argument even after you shot it down.
It might also be worthwhile to point out to these kids that the Supreme Court ruled in 2005 that *you do not have a constitutional right to police protection, even in the presence of a restraining order.* They keep bringing up the police as some kind of guaranteed service. You could call 911, no one would show up, and you couldn't hold them legally responsible (assuming you're still alive...)
Exactly, Lee the problem is supply demand. We have a shortage of doctors and high demand. We are going to increase demand and decrease the financial reason to be a doctor. Why would the doctor supply increase?
Wow Lee.. I can`t believe I just watched 30 mins of you answering Questions (at 4 am in Japan) but it was really interesting. NICE job. You handled the questions really well.. think about teaching?
Btw is "College" in the US the same as in Britain/Australia meaning its ages 16-18 what we call "high school" in Norway, or is College the same as University?
killerbee2k 1 year ago
@killerbee2k
College and University are interchangable in the US typically people start college when they around 18 years old.
flyingcircle526 11 months ago
It's kind of strange, in the US the most professors (from outside perspective) are teaching the benefits of socialized healthcare, while in Norway most of our professors (at least in political science/political economics) are teaching the downsides of socialized healthcare. Free healthcare is not a collective good since its not Pareto-effective. Empirically socialized healthcare leads only to rise in prices and lower capacity, not to speak of the powerfull government medical unions.
killerbee2k 1 year ago
Oh man the guy asking questions at around 25 minutes in is hilarious. It's a perfect juxtaposition of Conservative/Liberal point of views. He asks some lengthy question about evil companies jacking up the price in Ohio. You have a common sense counterpoint for everything he says and he admits it may be true every time while trying to sound as intellectual as possible.
I kept waiting for the audience to laugh but i didn't really hear any :(
I'm glad you decided to take so many questions.
fishblades 1 year ago
Great questions and answers session. You really expressed your arguments well. The arguments to the contrary were simply based on ideal but impossible scenarios. I live in the UK where there is a free health care system. But I hope once I get a good enough job I can get private medical insurance because I know the standards on private medical care will be higher, I'll have greater choice and be able to receive care quickly.
DarthMaul8065 1 year ago
State and Federal laws dictate the products private insurance companies offer. It is not a free market in the least. So insturance is very overpriced because of the government mandates.
Insurance companies cannot deny care. They can only deny payment. Whether they pay or not is a contractual obligation. Their decisions are not made on some "worthyness" criteria as one student implied. But government can and does deny service by force of arms.
LibertyPhysics 1 year ago
Listening to those kids asking a question was absolutely brutal. If you have your hand raised to ask a question please be ready to ask it. Listening to them "uhh, mmm, like, uuhh." I'd rather listen to finger nails on a chalk board.
Zeus2276 1 year ago
This is the most uninteresting talk I have ever heard! I'm really glad that we have this guy to "keep it real" against all those liberal professors, so he can tell us about how firefighters are not conscripted into service, but that they actually voluntarily choose their careers, just like everyone else.
acquit 1 year ago
@acquit Liberal professors? oh boy you yanks are messed up...
Darusdei 1 year ago
Seems like you didn't have many actual conservative in the crowd lol.
obtree 1 year ago
lol at the horrible attempts to trap Lee and mock him. Go home, progs...
b0bzm00s3 1 year ago 2
it might be helpful to repeat questions or get better mics, could not hear the students 1/2 the time
ORVX 1 year ago
i can't believe how dumb that fist girl was, I mean really, do you aske these question and REALLY not get it?
ORVX 1 year ago
You are so off that you even don't get it yourself... You probably delete this comment, but what the hell. Look to norway, hell... I can choose between litteraly hundreds of doctors where I live, choose one of them as my regular. If I don't like that doctor, I can change. To keep people from abusing the system, we have a realtivly small fee so that nobody overuses their doctor. This is about 20$ or so.
aLmAnZio 2 years ago
@aLmAnZio Could you be bothered to write legibly please? I gave up halfway through.
supbabys530 2 years ago
@supbabys530 I can try, the first half was somewhat a rant becouse I don't like this guy, and that he is wrong on his assumtions.
Then I went on to tell about the norwegian health care system. Here, we have lots of doctors to choose from, and we can change our regular if we don't like the one we have. The doctor is in principle free, but you'll have to pay a small fee when visiting, so that people don't go to the doctor when they don't need to. This fee is about 20 usd
aLmAnZio 2 years ago
Great Job!
beardham 2 years ago
Great job!
AUTUMNSUN3000 2 years ago 2
Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.
- Winston Churchill
Churchill's point was easy enough everyone that is young is to some degree liberal because they are naive, we all believe when we are young that there must be a way to end everyones suffering because everyone is inheritly good, while older ppl have lived life and understand that everyone is indeed the opposite, that is called wisdom
grimilenn 2 years ago
@grimilenn Churchill didn't say that, actually. A similar version of the quote was spoken by Francois Guisot in the 1800s.
DarthKrattus 2 months ago
If you are unfamiliar with Oberlin, in the 80's it's nickname was "Moscow West"...and they were proud of it. Hard to believe Michelle Malkin made it out of these alive.
hoganfader 2 years ago
Where does this crap come from that those who can not afford it do not get it? what the hell do they think Medicaid is? there are plenty of free services for anyone who is poor. Are they high quality? no, but I'd rather the poor who can't afford it have the crappy quality than it being what everyone gets.
jkessler410 2 years ago
That audience sounds pretty herf derf
nitsua21 2 years ago
Your answers were poor and incoherent ramblings at times; talking points strung together and void of structure. Some of your replies resembled regurgitated conservative talk radio programs.
pr0xyc0nt1n 2 years ago
Too bad for your dumb ass that everything he said is true. It's not just talking points, it' s a reality wherever it's been applied. How about you go to your job (if you even have one) and just work for nothing because your services might be a "Right" to someone.
jkessler410 2 years ago 5
no, his replies were based in simple economics...which you are obviously too stupid to understand, and judging by your weak response , unable to counter with a logical argument.
bucjason 2 years ago 2
"Stupid" "weak" "dumb ass". Yeah, I can see I'm dealing with two intellectual power-houses here.
It was constructive criticism, but you two are too blinded by the worship of conservative talking heads to see that's all it was- constructive criticism.
pr0xyc0nt1n 2 years ago
The reason why conservatives have similar talking points is that we base are policies on reality and fact where as liberal policies are emotional and ideological. So of course it sounds similar, a duck is a duck and soicial security is going bankrupt.
captainmario42 2 years ago
Your words fell upon deaf and ignorant ears, Lee. Still, it was good of you to try. Both sad and scary that those kids could become future leaders.
devastater0 2 years ago
These poor morons think they're being indoctrinated? Weak minded, they sound like leftist drug addicts, only they couldn't handle a shot of vodka.
MEpianist 2 years ago
thx! so true, i go there and this is S0 true
oberlinraisin 2 years ago
the audience should dropout of college?!?
iamundergrace 2 years ago
Oh Shit! a lot of those kids had already been indoctrinated in high school!
Mathewmatic 2 years ago
Lee, your responses were not very good. But the kids questioning were also complete idiots. Lee, you should have conceded that their is not practical way of privatizing police or fire departments. Put your ideological purity aside and concede that some basic functions of society have to either be run or funded by the government. Healthcare, I agree, should not be run by the state, but that doesn't mean the state has no roll is helping those uninsured through a voucher system.
TimeWarp66 2 years ago
The problem with privatizing civil-service is introducing a non-profit entity and enrolling it into a private corporate entity that is destined to seek a profit. Although the alternative is a gov't entity that cant be trusted in spending tax payers money effectively. Bottom line is we(the tax payers) lose.
Ideoligically...gov't cant run anything. $436 for a hammer $640 for a toilet seat. Think about it.
kriefdar 2 years ago
I'd like to know if the student at 6 minutes were arguing for more tax dollars, does that student pay taxes? Or does he just go to school?
veriteez 2 years ago
I would like to know that as well.
JRooster101 2 years ago
Nice Q&A. Too bad that some morons tried to make a mockery of the event.
Merry Christmas Lee.
paulvick2002 2 years ago 2
Lee that was your best post to date
dorsal547 2 years ago
...provision of services, you ought to oppose the state itself, since it is nothing but a legal monopoly on the provision of certain services deemed "essential" by some part of the population. This is why conservativism and Cato libertarianism is a joke.You can hardly go after the left for it's coercive use of the state when you yourself are in favor of the same coercion in order to forward certain ends. But why should the military be regarded as more "essential" than healthcare?
tumbleweedjoe 2 years ago
Military as a private market would is essentially gangs and war lords... Have you thought out what could happen when we have different military services competing for contracts?
RyandocDO 2 years ago
The key word is competing. Competing means you have to please customers. Customers will not invest in PMCs that don't do what they want.
Fetchdafish 2 years ago
I'm sorry but private companies should not have armies. If citizens want to form militias I'm fine with that. But what happens when a competing company becomes too powerful? Let me give u a hint. They have an army.
RyandocDO 2 years ago
Legitimate businesses can't afford armies like we understand them. Not an offensive force. They're too expensive. Defensive weapons on the other hand, are relatively cheap. It's kind of why modern insurgencies are so impossible to defeat. The only way you can amass an army that can conquer and subjugate people is with tax dollars.
Fetchdafish 2 years ago
@Fetchdafish Thats an interesting thought.
RyandocDO 2 years ago
What do we do when a foreign invader imposes its government on the anarchy you are suggesting? I would rather make our own government the way we want to insure this does not happen.
RyandocDO 2 years ago
Mysticism.
Moragauth 2 years ago
No sense
RyandocDO 2 years ago
How is it "inconsistent" and "a joke" to be in favor of the least government intervention possible in our individual lives? Yes, some government institutions are always going to be necessary, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't look to limit its influence whenever we can.
TheSilhouette 2 years ago
Also, there is a difference between the military, the police, the fire department and health care.
Fires spread, meaning its not just your property, but that of the entire community that is at risk. The same goes for the military and police: they are means to protect the community as a whole from harm.
Healthcare is a personal issue. If my neighbor breaks his leg, it does not effect the entire community. I am under no obligation to pay for his rehabilitation.
TheSilhouette 2 years ago
"Healthcare is a personal issue. If my neighbor breaks his leg, it does not effect the entire community. I am under no obligation to pay for his rehabilitation."
Except that he doesn't die on the spot and pay for his burial in his own backyard. He likely goes to the ER and charges those bound by the Hippocratic oath (Read: the city) for the most expensive and life-sustaining treatment available. It's a shame he couldn't afford that Boniva prescription the doctor always recommended...
MEpianist 2 years ago
@TheSilhouette Quite simple, its the communes responsibility to guarantee eachother help when in need.
aLmAnZio 2 years ago
...more services. The fact that many fire departments are voluntary is irrelevant, some are not. Also the fact that people can voluntarily become police or not become police is beside the point. What's at issue is whether all services (including police services per se) should be aranged on a voluntary contractual basis (individual to individual) or whether some should be forced upon all. Mr Doren, you are in favor of such coercion, just not for the same stuff! If you oppose the coercive...
tumbleweedjoe 2 years ago
Its not a black and white debate.
RyandocDO 2 years ago
So basically its a false dichotomy.
RyandocDO 2 years ago
The girl makes a good point Lee, one you ought to be familiar with. The "services" that the state provides for us are not provided by voluntary agreement (you cannot choose to contract your own police forces in place of those police whom operate under the aegis of the state.) Liberals (socialists) are simply more consistent on this point. They reason like so: "If people are forced to use state courts, police and mail services, whether or not they want to, why not force people to pay for even...
tumbleweedjoe 2 years ago
If those kids were supposed to be the young generation of conservatives and libertarians, we are in serious trouble.
christo930 2 years ago
This is the product of parents giving control of the entire education of their children to the public system. It also sounds like these kids smoke a lot of pot.
MSSC73 2 years ago
I'd rather see them smoke pot than be taught by liberal professors.
christo930 2 years ago 6
Uh, I thought most college students did BOTH!
FollowMyDamnedLaws 2 years ago
I don't disagree.
Moragauth 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I OWN YOU LEE. I OWN YOU
Islamophobic25 2 years ago
Interesting but you said essentially too many times.
SoundGernade 2 years ago
Nicely handled, Lee. =^[.]^=
Raycheetah 2 years ago 3
apparently you glazed over the point that Lee made stating that the reason we spend more than socialized countries is that those countries implement price caps. There is a difference between what something costs and what is paid.
dmanatan 2 years ago
The reality of liberty is self-evident, one must pervert their mental understanding in order to avoid it. Seems like these students are doing a good job at that.
ALittleBitPregnant 2 years ago 3
man i feel sorry for you Lee Doren, you had to sit through those kids who cannot take freedom seriously. They are immature fucks who seriously probably wont get it. Best of luck in educating them. I mean your points were spot on, facts, logic, reason, yet these people cannot figure it out.
jwka2001 2 years ago 11
man these kids are seriously fucking brainwashed by this socialist type mentality. Man how can these stupid ass kids not figure it out. Socialism is such a failure (well cept for ants/bees/termites) and the fact of this should point out that it can and never will work unless people totally change there mind sets. Which wouldn't happen anytime soon since man never dreams of being enslaved.
jwka2001 2 years ago 2
They keep going back to the argument of police officers.
Police officers enforce the law. They are not body guards, and they are not our protection. They are not required to protect us, that is not their job. Some officers/departments make it policy to do so, but that is not the responsibility of the police.
So the argument that under free market logic, it would be better to "privatize" security is bogus because we do not have government provided security in the first place.
bldgy 2 years ago 2
we know to what extent we are willing to pay for other peoples healthcare. This is called charity. Everything else that we would tax people would be what we are not willing to pay. Thats why it would have to be mandatory. Everybody is free to donate whatever they want and if they feel like poor people shouldnt suffer they can help them out with their own money.
princeofexcess 2 years ago
Astounding job Lee on answering these questions. You're amazing at tearing down an argument on the spot.
davidngo4415 2 years ago 3
I am tired of paying taxes on medicare
Jkelquedi 2 years ago 2
How is this so hard for people to understand that because of government our healthcare is so fucked up,, and that socialized medicine will only make things worse. Im only 26 but damn i figured this shit out years ago. They sound like college kids, which is sad, they are probably brainwashed by the professors and the educational system. And the fucking kid at like 25 mins in, what a fucking douchebag attitude, trying to make himself seem smarter than he really is, pathetic
jwka2001 2 years ago
shoulda brought up speeding tickets lol.
splntz 2 years ago
Essentially, you destroyed that guy from Ohio.
notyourfriendbuddy 2 years ago 2
Lee, I can't believe that you were proud of your response to her very logical question. She called you on a major flaw in yours (and many other conservative/libertarian's) thinking. Mark Levine ends every program lauding government workers (soldiers, cops, firemen) even though he spends every minute of the program saying that government is bad.
GaryEinhorn 2 years ago
Because protecting citizens from internal/external harm is a proper role of government. Picking winners and losers, redistributing wealth is not. Limited government is a necessary evil in a free society, no Conservative/Libertarian has ever stated that "government is bad". It's inefficient compared to the private sector.
notyourfriendbuddy 2 years ago 3
Excellent, Notyourfriendbuddy, then you will agree with me that protecting citizens from the external harm of viruses or from other citizens who may carry viruses is a role of government.
How do you feel about Education as a role of government? What about creating roads? Not sure what harm they are protecting us from by building roads, perhaps we should privatize all roads.
GaryEinhorn 2 years ago
any chance of putting up some subtitles, lee?
i cant hear what these brainwashed fucks are saying, even with my headphones on...
GlengarryGlennBeck 2 years ago
That first girl that asked a question was an idiot.
dumb14wanker 2 years ago
Good job Lee.
TheSpoonFedFukWit 2 years ago 4
Great video, Lee.
One thing I would have added to the second gentleman you were speaking with about health care is this: You're saying that since we all pay into health care with our tax dollars then we're essentially paying for our health care. The problem is where is the personal choice/freedom to decide whether you want health care or not. Right now we can chose. With this new tax-funded plan we have no choice whether we want it or not.
Just a thought... :)
KDxLiberty 2 years ago 3
31:49 i'd love to hear your explanation on how you can cherrypick ideals out of Objectivism and stay logically consistant. It's a closed loop system, its not open for debate. At the fundamental level, you either agree, or disagree. While I'm glad you promote Ayn Rand, don't do it so half heartedly!
Twiggy269 2 years ago
@ 15:50 lee, this question goes back to the proper role of government in a free society. What is the definition of govt? What makes them special? The ability to use retaliatory force. Police, military, these are instruments of force, they're there to protect you from people who would take away your rights. Doctors do not fall into this category of protectors of rights. HUGE difference, that I don't think you're explaining very well.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
@Twiggy269
You're right. Maybe while I was at it, I should have pulled out Bastiat's "The Law" and read it to them.
In fact, I should have gone into the whole chapter on plunder.
HowTheWorldWorks 2 years ago
haha, I'm noting a bit of sarcasm in that statement lee.
I think handing out photocopies of Economics In One Lesson would have been nice!
I did like the part you brought up about the broken glass theory. You could've hit that one a bit harder.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
did the students get any type of paper before the lecture? Suggested reading?
Did a professor invite you to speak for a class? Or was this more of an open lecture that wasn't intended as material for any specific class?
Twiggy269 2 years ago
@Twiggy269
It was open to the entire school, and I wanted to get enough time for questions from all who wanted it.
And Sowell's basic econ, third edition is better than EIOL
HowTheWorldWorks 2 years ago
the kid at like 25 minutes in, u destroyed him. I hated his attitude that he had, this 'smarter than you' attitude. These people always show the arrogance of there true nature when they talk. Good job sir in taking him to school.
jwka2001 2 years ago
@jwka2001 What did he say after Lee said he was from Buffalo? Everybody laughed but I couldn't catch what he said.
JonasSalk 2 years ago
Netherlands
jwka2001 2 years ago
i've heard of T Sowell, but never read any of his books, if you suggest it though, i'll look it up and give it a read.
EIOL was really the first economics book I ever read. It really opened my eyes to Opportuinty Cost. Something I think most people are completly illiterate to. I'm sure if you would have asked the audience to explain why going around and breaking glass was not a good way to create jobs, they would've had a hard time explaining the concept of O.C
Twiggy269 2 years ago
There is an excellent essay that talks about the broken window fallacy, taxes, standing armies... It talks about much of what is in EIOL, with some other stuff as well. EIOL is a great introduction to Austrian economics.
christo930 2 years ago
@HowTheWorldWorks
I agree that Sowell's Basic Econ is better than EIOL. I think EIOL, while it played an important role in the modern history of libertarianism in the US, is not a good book for the average young person today. Hazlitt's language is awkward for modern readers, and the set of popular anti-capitalist fads has changed somewhat since the 40s.
My question for you is: Is the 3rd edition of Sowell's book significantly different from its previous editions? (I have the 1st edition.)
willzyx1980 1 year ago
lee - you should've called out the first questioner more harshly! You started down the right path but didn't go far enough. What is it called when you force a person to work for no money? Slave labor. If I walk into a computer repair shop with my broken computer and a gun, tell the man working there to fix it with the threat of violence, what has that person become? My slave. It's very simple. Rights are the right to ACTIONS, not GOODS. Very different things.
Twiggy269 2 years ago
lee dosnt have proper balance
he keeps leaning on one side or another
look at his hips
Shad0wSquirrel 2 years ago
I never intended to watch more than 3 mins (standard YouTube attention span) of these two videos. But the discussion was so compelling, I found myself watching both in their entirety. I thought they were quite informative and useful.
snowlionud 2 years ago
I am very impressed by your calm demeanor, Lee. I wish I was able to discuss politics as calm and as collected as you. Great video.
marxman12 2 years ago
Great idea the Demotards have- Pay the best Doctors same as the worst ones and not much more than a union factory worker with a HS diploma.. After all, Why reward talent, skill, hard work and achievement or even compensate it? Why even train American docs. Let the government import them from the the poorest third world nations like the Brits. Horay for Dr Nick from the Simpson's type Doctors or Abo treating you from the back of the Quickemart. I am not kidding considering what I have seen!
ibmsony101 2 years ago
The thing that that the Demofools & socialized medicine Kool-aid drinkers fail to understand that this is not an experiment that can be reversed if and when it destroys the quality and availability of the medical care that most Americans are accustomed. They will not even get a system as good as Britain which would be unacceptable to most Americans accustomed to convenience, choice and quality.
ibmsony101 2 years ago
@Video
I'd almost feel sorry for Mr Doren for wasting his time, but he chose to do this...
Those are not college students, there college kids...
Listening to some of there idiotic arguments, and just in general nonsense... They have not lived at all. Or studied any history at all either for that matter.
MRSketch09 2 years ago
I am afraid that Lee is a prophet of doom, and such are cursed to be a voice in wilderness with few heeding their warnings about the consequences of their folly.
ibmsony101 2 years ago
@ibmsony101
I think he's just speaking common sense not so much a "prophet of doom."
Its like pointing and saying.. "Hey! there's a bluff there.. don't go that way. "
And they head that way anyhow.
At least hes trying to spread some info. The way the system is set up now. It drags everyone down, not just the idiot individuals who support these damn schemes. *sighs*
MRSketch09 2 years ago 2
Enjoyable segment.
I wish some of the people in the audience would of taken it more seriously.
BryanShotYou 2 years ago 2
isn't everything rationed? not everyone will get sick at the same time just as not everyone needs police assistance 24/7. surely epidemics will arise as do riots or instances of great civil unrest but why wouldn't doctors be able to disband as the police did during katrina?
xblindx 2 years ago
I grew up 15 minutes from Oberlin college, and this was exactly the questions I was expecting from the students. Their questions definitely gave me a good laugh....
30 grand a year for THAT education? How sad.
Banshee409 2 years ago
Lee...Thanks for this gem! I will be posting it to facebook as soon as the new steven crower detroit video has been up long enough. I wish had the time to really dig down into these subjects like you do. Keep up the good work!
schimdo 2 years ago
In follow up to my last comment: Let's apply that same analogy to some of the UAW union workes. What would happen if we said, "Ok, you can be a factory worker making $70 / hr with great benefits...but you have to work the factory for 12-15 yrs for free...then you'll only get $17.50 / hr. But, oh yeah, you still have to pay the $200,000 loans that kept you alive and trained you for this job."
budchin1 2 years ago
Sadly enough, campus here is more of the same. God my generation is screwed.
TheSandsOfTime60 2 years ago 3
@TheSandsOfTime60 I'm with you.
The colleges are so far Left even Hillary is starting to blush.
SpeedingStudent 2 years ago 2
The bottom line comes down to:
Cap the prices and only pay Doctors a small salary. Right?
How would that work telling a prospective healthcare provider, "Ok. You can be a doctor. You're going to school for 12-15 yrs of education after highschool. Oh, and you won't get paid during that time, AND when you reach the end of that training, we the government, have decided you will only get paid 1/4 of what you thought you would to pay off your $400,000 debt."
budchin1 2 years ago
It seems like they don't even acknowledge your points after you've made your case. Hopefully you convinced some students that didn't ask questions to at least look at the liberal views of their authority figures critically.
TheSandsOfTime60 2 years ago
You have a bright future ahead of you man. Keep on fighting the good fight. Have a merry Christmas and a happy new year.
DarkWarrior450 2 years ago 2
that first girl was sucha dipshit she kept on laughing with that annoying fat girl gay laugh
DDSproductions08 2 years ago
blowing minds in ohio, huh lee? good to see you moving about. i'm sure your legs are tired from running all the way to oberlin... or did you finally fix your car? many thanks
19fas88 2 years ago
I love Q&A sessions... They are one of the best indicators of the level of knowledge a person has on a particular subject, and Lee passed with flying colors...
Great video... Actually, this kinda hit home with me... My American History professor recently told me that he wanted Communist Manifesto and Das Capital to be required reading for 3rd and 4th graders! WTHECK man!!! Luckily my paper on Ronald Reagan and supply side economics didn't effect my grade lol!
TheEllipsis731 2 years ago
Great Q&A !
It's good to hear someone make the rational arguments.
thankyou.
Tzunamii777 2 years ago
lol this budd fellla seems like a dbag, so dont stress about him lee....when people cant pose valid arguments they just start to take a jab at a person.....i think a 10 year old could destroy that kid in a debate when he acts like canada doesn't have to ration care, (aka have the governement decide who does and doesnt get certain medical services, not the doctor and the patient) so dont waste your energy man...keep up the good work
mds1303 2 years ago
Thank you so much for posting this, Lee!
buddhagem 2 years ago
Wait a minute. Did you just say, "It's illegal not to get care once you go to the hospital"? But you said it's "ridiculous to think that one should have the right to the services of someone else! So why would it be illegal to deny care to someone at the hospital, Lee? Shouldn't the doctors get to decide who gets to live and die? I'm downloading this; I think I'll have some fun with your contradictions. Thanks, Lee!
buddhagem 2 years ago
@buddhagem
You do realize that you'd be doing two things in the video:
1) You'd demonstrate your own absurdity with not understanding why they are not mutually exclusive;
2) You'd end up making an argument for many labor strikes being illegal without realizing it. I'm not sure if you realize who is going to be making the contradiction.
Okay, now I'm really done promoting you.
HowTheWorldWorks 2 years ago
Lee, in all seriousness: Merry Christmas. As absurd as your views are, I think you're a decent person who wants this country to be better. I hope this is a good year for you and I wish you all the best.
buddhagem 2 years ago
@buddhagem
Merry Christmas.
HowTheWorldWorks 2 years ago
This is so fun to watch. OH yes, were going to pay an "infinite amount on health care" LOL Who could pay an infinite amount? You're so pathetic at this, Lee. You must have been embarrassed.
buddhagem 2 years ago
@buddhagem
Okay, I'm done promoting you in this thread because you've just reached a new level of absurdity.
HowTheWorldWorks 2 years ago
Lee, if it's any consolation, I actually feel bad for you as I watch this. I'm sure you were paid well for your sad performance so that must have made up for your loss of dignity.
buddhagem 2 years ago
Every time you tell him,"I'm done promoting you," you are in fact... promoting.
RyandocDO 2 years ago
I love how you share your ignorance of universal health care with us and pretend that some government bureaucrat is going to decide care when that's not the case anywhere. Even in Canada, which has one of the worst universal health care plans, decisions are made by doctors and patients, unlike here where some insurance bureaucrat decides what tests and procedures you and I can have.
buddhagem 2 years ago
Im canadian and im proud of my universal health care! Yes it could be better but you dont know all the facts. We do have privatized dental and im goin to cuba next month to get my teeth fixed. The waiting list that you keep hearing about is not what you think it is. If you need open heart surgery you get it.
mexifriedtoad 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Lee, maybe you're not aware of this simple fact but the US has been bankrupt for sometime. So why pretend that universal health care is going to bankrupt us? I don't even need to mention the huge mountain of debt our government owes, either. Right now the average consumer debt of an American family is 120% of their average income. During the great depression it was like 20%. This whole society is built on a deck of credit cards and there's no way were ever paying it back. Nixon admitted as much
buddhagem 2 years ago
I have to hand it to ya Lee.. I couldn`t, well wont, spend my time dealing with idiots anymore over this stuff. I become more like my Dad every years - more and more private about my political beliefs. It`s just so hard to weed through the dogma and ignorance to find a person really interested in truth. Good on ya for fighting the good fight. And I hope you find more liberals really interested in actually debate. It`s like finding a soul mate.. rare!!
Phillyprnc 2 years ago
police organization is unconstitutional to begin with
-.-
EssedariusMaiestas 2 years ago
Who wants to count how many times ass-hat says "essentially"?
buddhagem 2 years ago
@buddhagem
Lol I remember challenging you to a debate when I was at 100 subs. You laughed at me and refused.
Now, I see you have a different tune; what has changed?
BTW: You cannot even explain how I got my "ass handed" to me because you only wish it were true. Just like your wish that the CNT weren't oppressive authoritarian monsters and Anarcho-Syndicalism is a pipe dream of misery.
HowTheWorldWorks 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Lee, I refused because you didn't have a specific point of debate. You just wanted to debate. Oh, yes, the evil CNT. LOL. I'm sure you'll be in the New York area soon enough. Let me know, I'd love to see ya.
As to you getting your ass handed to you, watch how you answer the first question. You back pedal like crazy and don't make a lick of sense. Would you like to go back to the days we had private fire companies in this country? Answer t hat.
buddhagem 2 years ago
@buddhagem
MOST fire companies in America are private.
Moreover, according to your own words I challenged you to specific issues. Watch your own videos.
HowTheWorldWorks 2 years ago
No, you challenged me to a "debate" when I pressed you as to what we might debate you gave me a huge list of possible things that were as broad as one could imagine. I destroyed you on the issue of DDT and you ignored it, which was smart on your part since you couldn't possibly refute my arguments.
buddhagem 2 years ago
@buddhagem
Like I said, you cannot even give an example.
HowTheWorldWorks 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Lee, your answer to the first question is my example. The fact is, we as tax payers have decided that certain things, like protection from fire and murder, shouldn't be left to private entities and so they are public services. You simply skirted the question with a bunch of nonsense because you clearly were not prepared to answer the question.
buddhagem 2 years ago
@buddhagem
Well, I answered the question directly:
1) The idea that fire is public, and we don't buy insurance isn't true because:
a) Most fire departments are voluntary
b) Your homeowners insurance has a clause to protect against fire damage;
c) As an aside, fire is local.
I couldn't have addressed it more directly. So, either you turned the video off after the question, and plugged your ears for my answer, or your being intentionally absurd.
HowTheWorldWorks 2 years ago
@buddhagem
*you're.
HowTheWorldWorks 2 years ago
Lee, had a little trouble with that first question, huh? Got your ass handed to ya. I'd love to be at one of these. Any chance of that? I'd destroy you quite easily.
buddhagem 2 years ago
haha. ohhh you're such a bad ass! you tool
Buergs323 2 years ago
Using police as an example is totally unfair. Policeman our an enforcement arm of government law established by the people as a whole in order to protect our rights. That is constitutional and completely in line with the founding fathers vision for our country. Government protection of our natural rights is a necessary evil. Healthcare is a responsibility that one must provide themselves not a right.
Daniel44125 2 years ago
It's hard to hear the questions.
zetsway5000 2 years ago
Yeah, some subtitles when the questions are asked would be useful.
saxquiz 2 years ago 2
"Canadian's go to buffalo for care when they need it," well i would guess so since Canadian's need to go see our doctors you keep stealing from us.
As for its not inequality if A Canadian has a large sum of money and chooses to speed up the process by dipping into their funds, they can choose so but in the meantime the poor may have to wait a few extra weeks to a couple months for health care but at least they are still covered under health care
umm1anda2andumm 2 years ago
@ umm1anda2andumm
'Canadian's need to go see our doctors you keep stealing from us.'
thats idiotic. if we pay more than Canada can to the doctors in this country, it's not theft, it's free market. This is the main reason I see socialized medicine as failing, because doctors work long and hard to get their degrees. The classes and schools are expencive, the hours are long and the people dealt with are unforgiving. of course they go where they're paid best
theatomicskull999999 2 years ago 2
@theatomicskull999999
Apparently you take the wording of "stealing" literally more then the metaphoric meaning of the general premise which is intended. I totally agree that it is free market and perfectly o.k to pay more for doctors but when the costs become to high what are the costs? affordability?..you claim you can afford to pay doctors more but can you? with indecisiveness and debt ,, going on those 2 things alone it seem not
umm1anda2andumm 2 years ago
You should have brought up the fact that police "service" is horrible. If a thief is determined to rob your house, he will rob it. Unless by shear luck, a cop drives by while your house is being robbed, you'll come home with all your stuff gone. You would also have to be extremely lucky for law enforcement to investigate and eventually find your stuff and catch the thief.
With a public health care system, your doctor will just give you a pill when you're sick. Crappy service.
craigtheplague 2 years ago
i think most of the students who attended his lecture just came to harass him in Q&A.
error000 2 years ago
You got owned in the very first question. Very entertaining so far.
ScottishAtheist 2 years ago
They need a microphone in that room for the students I can barely hear them.
loszhor 2 years ago
hmmm. some good questions, some really simple-minded liberal questions, tough touchy issue.
I understand why liberals want this current reform. What they don't understand (generally) is that conservatives are all for reform too. Liberal leaders preach reform for the greater good, when they mean greater power.
Conservative leaders stand in the way of that power grab, and are demonized for it.
VegasBilgeRat 2 years ago
Everyone check out my video response and link in the video sidebar. The video is titled "medicare for all" and the article in the sidebar explains exactly how medicare works and why it should not be expanded.
SoldierBoyX 2 years ago 3
I love the morons who make stupid comments on you videos when they don't know a goddamn thing about politics. I've been listening to politics my whole life now that obama is president suddenly everyone is up in arms and they think they know everything. I'm not insulting you Lee its just funny to watch people make fools of themselves.
Shadyac21 2 years ago
Shadyac21,
Since Obama's come on the scene, the stakes have never been higher. Its a silver lining to the dark cloud that is this president and the current ultra left congress, that people are interested in what their "leaders" are up to. And right now, our leaders are going against what the populace wants, they're spending more than ever...this has got to stop.
VegasBilgeRat 2 years ago 2
I agree with you no doubt. But whats gonna happen when obama is gone. You think people will stop worshiping celebrities and start worshipping Ben Franklin and George Washington. Cause thats the reason why we are losing our country. Otherwise another obama will come along.
It was actually the people who support obama is who I was reffering to. Everytime I read these comments there always some moron liberal who gives you fake facts and all of sudden he knows more then you. But I agree with you.
Shadyac21 2 years ago
The ban on private care (in Canada was deemed anticonstitutional by the supreme court, causing the law to be repealed.
Vitaminous 2 years ago
I appreciate what you are doing Lee. However, I'd like to make a suggestion on the argument with police and fire service in relation to health care. I don't think arguing the logistics purely on a free market real strikes at the root of the issue.
The difference between police and fire vs Federal Health coverage is which governing body has the authority to administor these programs. States and local government provide police/fire. The Federal Government can't legally provide any of it.
mayt7 2 years ago
"The Oberlin College Republicans & Libertarians invited Lee Doren to give a lecture at Oberlin College"
ahaha, I didn't know such a group existed there
jkachovec 2 years ago
Good show, Lee. You made very good arguments. Hopefully these students have learned something.
Irockman1 2 years ago 2
Nice Milton Friedman quote, although I'm sure most of those students have no idea who he was.
LazloDoe 2 years ago
I'm an MD in a poor, rural area of northeast Ark. and I can tell you for a fact that we WILL loose our older most experienced MDs as they are NOT going to work for the gov. I know as they are all telling me this in the AM when I make my hospital rounds. The frustration level is so high that many are simply going to retire. We don't have enough MDs as it is so get ready for the gov. to flood the country with foreign medical grads to take their place. Isn't socialism GREAT!!
manofreedom 2 years ago 5
These youngsters sound naive.
0bodobod0 2 years ago
Around 9:30 the student is basically comparing government-run versus private... all you had to do was explain that with private providers there is competition between them, so regardless of the similarities between private and GR, you have options with GR because they have to compete. That is of course one of the biggest problems with anything that is centralized, is that it doesn't have to compete.
regresseur 2 years ago
And thus can do whatever it deems right, necessary, etc. They make an arbitrary limit so we don't have to pay ever-increasing taxes and as a result there is less research, less innovation, less people in the medical field in general, worse treatment in general, etc. etc. Also the govt. is forced to create endless rules and whatnot under which people can / can't get care, priority based on whatever it deems just, etc.
regresseur 2 years ago 2
What fraternity are you in, Lee? Alpha Iota?
fitedeltachi 2 years ago
The comparisons between the police/fire department to doctors is not a good one and yet multiple people used the same argument even after you shot it down.
LordWolven 2 years ago
It might also be worthwhile to point out to these kids that the Supreme Court ruled in 2005 that *you do not have a constitutional right to police protection, even in the presence of a restraining order.* They keep bringing up the police as some kind of guaranteed service. You could call 911, no one would show up, and you couldn't hold them legally responsible (assuming you're still alive...)
smiledammit24 2 years ago
Exactly, Lee the problem is supply demand. We have a shortage of doctors and high demand. We are going to increase demand and decrease the financial reason to be a doctor. Why would the doctor supply increase?
jrnault77 2 years ago
Wow Lee.. I can`t believe I just watched 30 mins of you answering Questions (at 4 am in Japan) but it was really interesting. NICE job. You handled the questions really well.. think about teaching?
Phillyprnc 2 years ago
@Phillyprnc
I'd love to teach.
But, in most states I'd need to go back to Gra