Most Baha'is are in error

[DivineFellowship]

All of the great religions condemn lust, fornication, and unchastity.

All of them also discourage obsession with the material world, especially bodies.

If the Baha'i Faith has no moral teachings surrounding sex it's a poor replacement for the other religions.

[DivineFellowship]

All should renounce porn, including 3-time-a-day masturbators like yourself.( You obviously must have a 'thing' about porn.)

I am anti-porn. Baha'is should be too. Including their fetish for race-mixing, which is like porn to them.

[waiotahi52]

@DivineFellowship This idiotic statement says far more about you than the Baha'i Faith.

[DivineFellowship]

Yes, why do Baha'is dislike the varied peoples and want everybody mixed together into gray paint? (Answer: Because it turns them on. Sort of like some people get thrilled by interracial porn.)

[waiotahi52]

@DivineFellowship If your actions here are the result of your beliefs, you have given me an insight to the alternatives to this Faith.It appears to me, and several others who have observed this encounter that you have become a fanatic and a hypocrite. Is this what you have to offer? To be bitter and mean?

By their fruits ye shall know them. I have decided to become a Baha'i.

And get a life.

As-Salāmu `Alaykum

And yes I have posted this more than once,I want everyone to know.

[waiotahi52]

@DivineFellowship You seem to have thing about porn.......

[MatthewDavine]

a guardian sounds a lot like a pope. Baha'i Faith doesn't need a pope.

[waiotahi52]

I must thank these folk for putting this site up, it made me go and check this subject out. I will as the poet OMAR KHAYYÁM said...

'Myself when young did eagerly frequent

Doctor and Saint, and heard great argument

About it and about: but evermore

Came out by the same door where in I went'.

Once again, many thanks

[freeheretic111]

I was born and raised in the Jewish Faith. After looking into the Bahai Faith for many years I declared. That lasted a few months since I was then exposed to a different Bahai Faith with different values, attitudes, and behaviors than that which 'Bahai seekers' are shown. Later I formally resigned.

The Bahais claim they don't have priests. Yet, in practice, the assemblies and leadership of the Bahias act like some weird mix of authoritarian priest and royalty.

Debating rabbis is more fun.

[MatthewDavine]

@freeheretic111 interesting point about 'royalty'. Having spent many years in the Baha'i religion, there were several "prominent" families who definitely acted like royalty. I found that intolerable.

[knightofjustic]

@freeheretic111 yer but they have to have someone around to lead prayers and answer question to anyone who interested. look at islam they say they dont have priests but there are imans but a iman is just a person who has knowledge of the quran if the iman is sick and so is his substitute i think anyone from the community can lead the pray if they can.

[haklerherr]

God, wants us to investigate the Truth, independently. So why should we listen to you??? Just because you say and video what you say. This does not mean what you say is the truth.

[DivineFellowship]

Baha'is are materialists. They are completely externally focused: Bodies, races, colors, buildings, the world. That's not what real religion is supposed to be about. Also it's bizarre that they have a miscegenation fetish though this is not advocated in their scriptures. Race-mixing is like Baha'i porn. It makes them feel like is worth living when they see their race and genes getting destroyed. They are like ghouls and demons that way. Bizarre people. No love for their own people.

[waiotahi52]

@DivineFellowship I think you will find that interracial marriages come about because as a Baha'i you are taught there is only 1 race of people on the planet and the Baha'is are told to rid themselves of the racist characteristics we are taught during our lives.

'If all were of the same color the effect would be monotonous and depressing.'

(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 267)

[knightofjustic]

@DivineFellowship you dont know that. bahai teaches you not to be racist or to hate others for anything and that where all the same which is true

[DivineFellowship]

@knightofjustic -- Actually, people are different. If it were not so it would be a boring world. The Baha'i faithe wants a boring world.

[knightofjustic]

@DivineFellowship why want a boring world

[wert7828]

haters gonna hate

[PeyBar]

Uh, these are the people that I was brought up to shun and treat like the boogie man? Seriously. I swear I don't know who are crazier these covenant breakers or the Bahais on here who get all riled up "defending" the Faith. You people truly are making the Bahai Faith out to be some small dying cult. I"m so happy I'm not active any more....

[freeheretic111]

@PeyBar Ha! I feel the same. The Haifa Bahais get way too worked up and are too paranoid about the 'terrible scary covenant breakers'. I'm not active anymore either with them or any organized religion. I can pray, meditate, and study on my own that which I find fitting to my personal spiritual path. I also don't have to keep batting away all the harassment pressures to keep giving money so the leaders can travel in style and have more gardens built for their legacy.

[knightofjustic]

the bahai religion is not small it actually very young and what the point in being brought up hating someone who different focusing on people differences and hating them for it leads to things like the holocaust imagine what would happen if no one listened to hitler if kids were not raised by jew hating nazies or thought by nazies or teachers who were scared if people just accepted the jews ww2 would be different maby never happend

[aaronlee75]

Upon those who are wrong be the fruit of their error. Remember the Surah of the Unbeliever in the Quran...A Baha'i from any background, by embracing Baha'u'llah, must also acknowledge the truth of that book and its lessons.

[Butterflyonocean]

There is NO such thing as orthodox bahai. Those are in fact the covenant breakers who are extremely small in number.

[stevrao]

.."produce it O assemblage of false ones".

There are reasons why the appointment stopped after Shogi Effendi. Who are we to assume the head of UHJ? That will turn out to be plain politics, and cause more issues.

[Beulah502]

This man is sadly misguided.

[Beulah502]

Ruhiyyih Khanum never had a lust for power. 

[Beulah502]

This people are so badly uninformed, misguided.

[fjcruise]

Mohammed was the last prophit and Baha ollah has to be in Hell now

[shaztekk]

I am truly sorry orthodoxbahai that this has happened to you, I hope some how you will make it back onto the path of truth and that God will forgive you for attempting to break up the faith

[TheDelmont]

All this is only YOUR opinion !!!

[12casti]

Do you know what corrupts more effectively than power?

Absolute power! You are proposing a fallacy!

It is not healthy for only one person to be in control. Do you want me to insult the readers’ intelligence by showing truth in citing examples?

Talking about intelligence and truth, I felt bad about beautiful Megan but since she is fourth generation “orthodox”. What a mind job! Talking about cognitive containment and conditioning.

[Keallei]

I think orthodox is in the sense that it is truth rather than the name of a schism.

[356pla]

I guess a religious faith doesn't really come into its' own until it has a shism.

Congrats.

[TheDelmont]

Your not even worth arguing with!!!

[cameronmoj]

@356pla Please read my other comments again very carefully, because you didn't understand them.

[cameronmoj]

@pinklovepoop Independently investigating the truth means to investigate the truth through proper and legitimate channels. Covenant-breakers are not proper or legitimate, because they twist the truth to poison your mind and serve their own purposes. If you want to learn about wolves, you consult experts and read books on it. If you go into the jungle to investigate and learn about wolves, you might learn about them, but you might get eaten by one too.

[cameronmoj]

@pinklovepoop I will send you a more detailed email at your private address. However I am putting this comment here for your benefit and the benefit of anyone who has read your comment. If you want to independently investigate the truth, there are plenty of books on the subject of the Covenant. They explain the Covenant in detail and refute the arguments of Covenant-breakers properly. These books are available at all Baha'i book shops.

[cameronmoj]

All except nine.

[mehrassak]

produce anything like what our beloved Shoghi Effendi produced in His writings.

[pinklovepoop]

i am a bahai and i am wondering why we should not exchange beliefs with covenant breakers since one of key components of this religion is actually the independent investigation of the truth...

anyone please answer me, as u can see i am already exercising one of the principles of my religion even though i feel like i am doing something wrong by writing on this page...please send me an email at mayflowergurl34@aol.com if u have an answer for me, because i haate coming back to this video...

[356pla]

@pinklovepoop Got that 'see no evil' thing going do you/

[cameronmoj]

WARNING TO ALL BAHA'IS - You should not be watching videos posted by Covenant-breakers. Worse still, you should not be exchanging comments with the makers of the videos or any other Covenant-breaker. This is totally against the Baha'i teachings. I myself came in just to make the comment. I did not watch the video.

[356pla]

@cameronmoj See no evil. That will work. Not.

[cameronmoj]

Most Baha'is are in error???? Anyone who says they are right and most people are wrong is either a genius, or a misled and corrupted soul. The problem is that there are not that many geniuses in this world. But there are a lot of people who are misled and corrupted.

[cameronmoj]

The comment I just recorded for Faroedad applies to everybody else. Defend the Covenant and the House of justice, fine. But please do not get into dialogue with the maker of this video or any other Covenant-breakers. I am not a self-appointed policeman. I am simply stating Baha'i law.

[cameronmoj]

@Faroedad Whilst it is meritorious to leave comments which defend the House of Justice and the Covenant, please bear in mind that you should not speak directly with the maker of this video or any other Covenant-breaker without permission of your National Assembly.

[356pla]

@cameronmoj In this religion you need permission from the hierarchy before you speak?

[colloredbrothers]

blablablablaaa

I came to baha'i and loved what it though suddenly people start delving deep and trying to corrupt it with puny monologues.

I'm a baha'i because I want peace and unity of all in the world, please don't shun me.

[356pla]

@colloredbrothers  In any religion, what you want MUST be of no consequence.

Do you not understand submission?

[244sabina]

WESTERNERS ALWAYS DESTROY AND DONT GET EASTERN RELIGIONS - WHEN ARE WESTERNERS GOING TO OBEY EASTERN RELIGIONS COMPLELTY AND TRYING TO MAKE IT THEIR OWN?

[2JZGTTTE]

orthodox 2 words...your wrong

[0099wrestler]

The Qur'an, Chapter Two, The Cow, verses 8 - 20. There you will find Baha u llah, who says he is a peacemaker. There you will also read of your own peace making efforts.

[msohaey]

Baha'is are = made in England

chor

[HolyN0va]

@msohaey Nice conspiracy theory man =), do you know how many times that convenient conspiracy theory has been refuted, well I'll tell you it's been too many times. Read Baha'i history and don't listen to the idle sayings of others without investigating.

[nickolas177]

HolyNova: If you have read Bahaullah's teachings carefully then you should know that we NOTHING CALLED ORTHODOX BAHAI. This is just a try to make bahai branched as other religions and we should stop them.

[nickolas177]

mshoaye: No you are wrong they were made in china.

[ofa898]

You go your way, I'll go my way

[sourpatch2007]

- the Guardian nominates someone, and

- the Hands of the Cause elect from their own number nine, and

- the majority of the 9 chosen Hands agree to the choice in a secret ballot, then

= we have a new Guardian.

If there is no assent from the Hands, there is no new Guardian: it is simple, and clear in the Will and Testament, leaving no room open for doubt, and this one fact refutes all the arguments of all the claimants.

[waiotahi52]

An 'error' is in the eyes of the beholder. In this guys case I am glad to be wrong.

[sjp0099]

its all a load of rubbish , get a grip !

[Imjustsumdude01]

So lets look at the fruits of the tree. The covenent breakers have done what? The rest of the entire bahai community which is "in error" have done what? Seems like us bahais in error have accomplished and built ALOT MORE. Maybe we aren't in error after all.

[duckotaco]

@Imjustsumdude01 I'm not seeing the accomplishments. Only false pride and wishful sense of superiority that has nothing spiritual or divine - just mere arrogance. Gotta be blind. Or right.

by the way, success by no means proves one right. Jesus failed, yet he was right according to the baha'i faith. BUT HE FAIELD ON EARTH, HE WAS HATED BY MANY.

Success NOT being right or worthy. Value DIFFERENT from success.

Nowadays, more idiots are successful than geniuses.

[naghmehjoon]

no your thoughts and information is error!!!

[vladimiraa]

this is pathetic you guys are FAKE FAKE FAKE and of course not intelligent enough to know thatt hence why you ALWAYS deny you are wrong lmaoo wow soo sad

[pinabarryscott1]

COVENANT BREAKERS ALERT

[Wisdom0and0life]

To other commenters:

Do you think you can answer a rational argument with an appeal to anger?

[raulsoleimanio]

Yeah, dude, we are in error; that's why we have the gardens in Haifa and all you get is negative comments on youtube. Go fly a kite for fun--it's healthier than this.

[fctchk]

You can tell how old a religion is by how many denominations it has. What they all have in common is how they incessantly bicker and quarrel amongst themselves claiming theirs to be the only "true" version.

Either god did not deliver his message with the clarity one would expect of someone with his unlimited powers or it's all man made.

You choose the more likely explanation.

[raulsoleimanio]

The message by God is very explicit and clear; the problem is that some people know they are wrong but they just insist on being wrong.

[fctchk]

And you receive that message how, by email or telephone?

[raulsoleimanio]

It's in the writings

[nraei021]

WoooW, this is for JCouraged; brother, i dont think you know enough about the bahai faith to be stating that Bahaullah is another formulation of jesus, your assumptions which are mere assumptions of the what the bahai faith stands for are very very wrong... before you discriminate any faith whether it is islam, bahai.... you should go and learn about what they stand for, im very sure that once you understand the essential elements of what these religions stand for, your views would change.

[ZeEEte]

That "human being "should be one of the AGHSANS.

There were no Ghusn left with the high standard of caracter mentioned in the testement of Bahaullah,the ones Shoghi Efendi Xcomunicated wanted to have

"A share in peoples parapety"& other courupt inclinations.

The universal House of Justice is the sorce of all goods & fre from error ,protected by Bahaullah , the center of the covnent & the most high the Bab. The absence of a physical Gardian has no efect on its function.

But,u cant get it .

[ZeEEte]

Bahaullah has promised to protect the Universal House of Justice Personaly with or without Gardian(in case of the previous Gardian did not find a souitable Ghusn amoungst Aghsan with absulut exelence,)and you faithles ignorents think at this moment from His glorious Abha kingdom He is not watching over His world order? and all this victories which by the way the blind can not see is not from His conformation of Him and the councours on high and the Hosts of heven are not doing it by His comand?

[CandlesOfUnity]

......COVENANT BREAKER ALERT!!!!

[orthodoxbahai]

I don't think the message of Jesus was that you should spew hatred for people of other faiths. You are not spreading the message of Jesus but merely revealing your own moral and spiritual bankruptcy. Please spread your hate elsewhere

[TheJawsusNSexmanShow]

STFU AND STOP SPAMMING

[TheJawsusNSexmanShow]

why? what's so demonic?

[melissacarl2002]

yeah man...the hands are fake

[3wishz]

may have someform of problems.the baha'i' faith was not build on a level i.e archbishop, bishop etc as a 6th gen baha'i' i just don't understand how out of the few million you'd be a "hands of the cause". if a view inwhich you've highlighted please show me the exact writings from whom and really read it before it gets sent to me. even in the words of baha'u;llah "investigation of own's truth" this means you don't like what you see, hear, read DONT BE PART OF IT

[worldcitizen999]

You are saying that Shoghi Effendi had a serious flaw in his judgements by appointing Hands of the Cause who would later make the decision that no other Guardians could be appointed. Your arguments are an insult to the beloved Guardian for if you really loved him then you would respect the judgments of the Hands of the Cause HE APPOINTED.

[orthodoxbahai]

The only insult to the first Guardian is how your organization dismantled the Administration that he laboriously built during his ministry. What an idiotic idea you express that somehow the Guardian had a flaw in judgment because the persons he selected to be Hands failed in their spiritual tests. I guess this means that Baha'u'llah's judgment was in error when He chose people for high position but who later betrayed the Cause. Do you not see that your argument is sheer nonsense? Wake up!

[ASPCS]

@orthodoxbahai

You are the one who should wake up!

there is no such thing called an orthodox bahai because we dont have preist and it is not allowed in the bahai faith to be fanatic!

[ormonclark]

History shows that religion is the source to most of humanity's DIVISIONS.

Wage peace...

Say no to religion, Please

[picturesonmyeyes]

the same can be said about scientific theory, philosophy, ontology, race, ethnicity, nationality, gender, sexual orientation, political affiliation or any other identifier. singling out a point of differential identification as the root cause of human problems ignores the fundamental origins and function of human difference and perpetuates the narrowly dichotomous understandings that perpetuate disharmony.

[Faroedad]

How come that Bahá'u'lláh has described the system of the House of Justice (which is now being used) and you don't follow those instructions, and if she had a lust for power how come she let it completely go to the UHJ? After that she had no power, whatsoever. The Guardianship was only supposed to last until the UHJ was ready to be established. The UHJ was not supposed to have a leader.

[orthodoxbahai]

We do follow the instructions. Have you investigated us? No! Have you read Shoghi Effendi's "Dispensation" article (published in World Order of Baha'u'llah)? Obviously not! The Writings of the Faith call for a UHJ with a Guardian at its head. READ YOUR OWN WRITINGS! Also, the Hands were celebrities after the election of your bogus headless UHJ. Of course, they had more power than anyone. I met Ruhiyyih in the 80s and she acted like an imperious queen

[Faroedad]

I'm really sad that it has come this far, that we Bahá'ís are shouting Covenant-breaker alert. Btw, number doesn't matter in the face of truth. Shoghi Effendi prepared the House of Justice and therefore we need no more Guarianship. He was extremely bright and careful, so if he wanted the guardianship to continue the he would appoint someone before he died. Remey was only leader of IBC which is not the same as Guardianship. He had a lust for power.

[orthodoxbahai]

The lust for power can be found in Rúhíyyih Khánum who said that she would not allow a second Guardian, obviously because she had power and prestige as the wife of the Guardian. The other Hands followed her out of fear and ignorance. Shoghi Effendi met his clear duty under the Will and Testament to appoint his successor. Deepen yourself in the verities of the Faith. Stop blindly following your evil leadership

[3wishz]

funny none of your such special faith has no iranian bahais? we must be very evil. lol nothing but a joke, no my dog will listen to roll over,sit, stay not read it. maybe you should read your books again and think unless you just listen like my dog? well ....

[BAHAIRULES]

@orthodoxbahai In Shoghi Effendi's final message to the Baha'i World, dated October 1957, he named the Hands of the Cause of God, "the Chief Stewards of Bahá'u'lláh's embryonic World Commonwealth." These stewards later came to form the UHJ. The UHJ memebers had every right to become the succsecor of the Baha`i faith, just as if someone died the rights to their posessions go to their family. The same thing happend to the Bàb when he died all his writings and Teachings went to Bahá'u'lláh.

[MrJapilz]

@BAHAIRULES

Actually, the Hands of the Cause of God chose not to become members of the Universal House of justice. To any observer, it is crystal clear that the primary goal of the Hands of the Cause was to ensure that the Bahá'í Faith was going in the right direction. They not only denied "power" to themselves, but they succeeded in finishing the 10 Year Crusade that Shoghi Effendi started.

[BAHAIRULES]

@MrJapilz After Shoghi Effendi's unexpected death in 1957, the Hands of the Cause directed the affairs of the religion and announced that the election of the Universal House of Justice would occur in 1963 at the end of the Ten Year Crusade, an international teaching plan instituted by Shoghi Effendi.In 1961 the International Bahá'í Council was changed to an elected body, with members of all National Spiritual Assemblies voting for its members............

[BAHAIRULES]

@MrJapilz .......... Then in April 1963 the first Universal House of Justice was elected, six years after the passing of Shoghi Effendi, by 56 national spiritual assemblies. The date of the election coincided with the completion of the Ten Year Crusade and also with the first centenary anniversary of the public declaration of Bahá'u'lláh in the Garden of Ridván in April 1863. Since then the Universal House of Justice has acted as the head of the religion; in 1972 it published its constitution.

[Freeflightkb]

Im sorry the only thing that the 21st century seems to provide society is self centered dogmatic materialism. The reason why we have so much suicide (especially in the west) is because of scientific materialism. Materialism provides jealousy, greed, dissension and conflict. True religion provides hope, love, compassion which the 21st century have neglected. no one has the right to denounce the writtings of Baha u llah without investigating it first!!

[nickolas177]

these are the offsprings of "yahya azal"

[HolyN0va]

@nickolas177 Don't compare them to offsprings of Subh-i-Azal, he did terrible things to Baha'u'llah during his life time and constantly conspired against Him. I don't know why the Baha'is feel inclined to watch these videos, I don't know why I did at one point. Read the writings for your own benefit and not at the juxtiposition of these people or anyone else for that matter, that's what Baha'u'llah commands us to do. I am not an "orthodox" Baha'i, I am a regular Baha'i.

[nickolas177]

sew your teared cloths bud, no need to present your stupid ideas here dude.

[DrLight9]

everybody knows the Shogi Effendi passed it on to the universal house of justice. you covenant breakers are totally outnumbered.

[vetatwork999]

please go away and find a nother cuse and join it

[fctchk]

The corpses of the founders of this religion have barely gone cold in their graves and already we have a soap opera tin pot power struggle raging at the top

This is the religion that wants to supersede all religions? Its already dead in the water and proved itself just as silly as all religions that came before it. Religion is over folks crushed by science- face it, forget about it, and join the 21st century.

[HolyN0va]

@fctchk

Have you ever read what Baha'u'llah and 'Abdul Baha have said about religion and science? Guess not based on your comment. You call it a soap opera? Tell me, of the proportionality of the world's Christians, how many denominations have been turned up and how many for each church? Apply the same thing to Islam. The Baha'i faith's so called "sects" are so small and insignificant compared to the larger community of Baha'is. Nice exaggeration dude!

[fctchk]

Abdu'l-Baha: "If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science, they are mere superstitions and imaginations" etc.

Bahai on homosexuality:

An "Immorality", "condemned in Baha'u'llah's writings ", "not a permissible way of life", An aberration subject to treatment."

Science on homosexuality:

Not inherently linked to psychopathology, a normal variant of human (and over 1500 other species) sexuality, NOT an aberration subject to treatment.

[fctchk]

Christianity: Billion + followers, Over 2000 years of inglorious infestation: approximately 38000 denominations.

Bahai: 6 million + followers, 166 years of infestation: approximately 6 to 10 schisms, family feuds, sects, splinter groups, covenant breakers®.

Thus: the number of breakaway sects, denominations, splinter groups etc. of a religion is directly proportional to the number of followers and time on the scene.

[maindkontrollmasheen]

Covenant Breaker Alert!

[vladimiraa]

COVEVNANT BREAKER ALERT !!!!!!!!

[orthodoxbahai]

I pray to God that your mind will be opened up to the Truth. Hatred and bigotry is not the right path no matter in whose name it is invoked

[lpmorettar]

The BAha'i Faith is one, is unique, there is not orthodoxbahai.. don't let them confuse you..

[Yoho101]

a very good explanation of the guardianship - thank you

[Freeflightkb]

I will pray for your soul.

[wogkunt69]

hey kuz alapa u bahai?

[hanytadros19]

Will & Testament of Abdu'l-Bahá pg 11 clearly stated the following

O ye the faithful loved ones of 'Abdu'l-Bahá! It is incumbent upon you to take the greatest care of Shoghi Effendi,

For he is, after 'Abdu'l-Bahá, the Guardian of the Cause of God, the Afnán, the Hands (pillars) of the Cause and the beloved of the Lord must obey him and turn unto him. He that obeyeth him not, hath not obeyed God; he that turneth away from him, hath turned away from God....

based on above there is successor

[pinabarryscott]

That is correct thank you hanytadros19 GOD BLESS! Have you looked at the history of the covenant breakers! It speaks for itself! By the fruits you shall know! THey have bad, bad fruits! God Bless!

[obfsteve]

So in 1957, when God changed his mind about the Twin Pillars, and how the Universal House of Justice was to be formed with the Guardian being "its sacred head and the distinguished member for life of that body." (Will and Testament, p.15), who did He (God) appoint to rewrite the provisions of that sacred document?

[gearoid1905]

I think this person may be a convenent breaker.

[orthodoxbahai]

Really? Do you know the definition of a covenant breaker? It is to oppose the Guardian. So, maybe you are one? Study. Read the Writings. Ignorance is no excuse.

[obfsteve]

According to the "Will and Testament of Abdu'l-Baha," who has the authority to declare someone a covenant breaker? I think you will find that it is only the Guardian. The Will and Testament is a legal document as well as a vital part of the Holy Texts. Who has the right to change its provisions?

[AcidoNZ]

The fundemental teaching of the Bahai Faith is unity and oneness of religion this can only be achived through the will of god and giving the people the power to elect the embryonic guardian of the faith not a power tripping crazy Like Mason Remey!~ Allah`u`abha friends may god have mercy on your souls for trying to divide his believers with your poison!

[orthodoxbahai]

According to Abdu'l-Baha, in His Will and Testament, unity comes from obedience to the Guardian. That is the fundamental teaching of the Baha'i Faith, not giving the people the power. Why don't you educate yourself?

[lunchboxbringa]

Nowhere in Abdu'l-Baha's Will and Testament does He say that there will be a Guardian for the rest of the Baha'i Revelation, and Shogi-Effendi never did write out who his successor as the Guardian would be. Therefore, Shogi-Effendi was the last Guardian of the Faith.

[jagoldberg99]

Shoghi Effendi says so in the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah. The Guardianship is one of the twin pillars of the Baha'i commmonwealth.

[Riowyn]

Your logic is faulty at best.

The UHJ was designed to ALWAYS have a guardian as its head.

[wolfpack9097]

That is true, but Shoghi-Effendi never had a child. So he was the last Guardian.

[Riowyn]

Again, find me WHERE in the writings it said The Guardian had to be the biological child of Shoghi Effendi.

[lunchboxbringa]

Gladly. The quote is over 500 characters so I will have to use two posts.

O my loving friends! After the passing away of this wronged one, it is incumbent upon the Aghsan (Branches), the Afnan (Twigs) of the Sacred Lote-Tree, the Hands (pillars) of the Cause of God and the loved ones of the Abha Beauty to turn unto Shoghi Effendi -- the youthful branch branched from the two hallowed and sacred Lote-Trees and the fruit grown from the union of the two offshoots of the Tree of Holiness,.."

[lunchboxbringa]

"...-- as he is the sign of God, the chosen branch, the Guardian of the Cause of God, he unto whom all the Aghsan, the Afnan, the Hands of the Cause of God and His loved ones must turn. He is the Interpreter of the Word of God and after him will succeed the first-born of his lineal descendants." (Abdu'l-Baha, The Will and Testament, p. 9)

[Riowyn]

Read two paragraphs further: "Thus should be the firstborn of the guardian of the Cause of God not manifest in himself the truth of the words:- 'The child is the secret essence of its sire,' that is, should he NOT inherit of the spiritual within him (the guardian of the Cause of God) and his glorious lineage not be matched with a goodly character, then must he, (the guardian of the Cause of God) choose another branch to succeed him."

[lunchboxbringa]

"...should he NOT inherit of the spiritual within him (the guardian of the Cause of God) and his glorious lineage not be matched with a goodly character, then must he, (the guardian of the Cause of God) choose another branch to succeed him."

Notice how 'Abdu'l-Baha used the word branch. Plural of Ghusn (Branch) is an Arabic term used by Baha'u'llah to refer exclusively to His male descendants. Is Remey a descendant of Baha'u'llah? No.

[lunchboxbringa]

"The election of these nine must be carried either unanimously or by majority from the company of the Hands of the Cause of God and these, whether unanimously or by a majority vote, must give their assent to the choice of the one whom the Guardian of the Cause of God hath chosen as his successor. This assent must be given in such wise as the assenting and dissenting voices may not be distinguished (i.e., secret ballot)."

Did nine of the Hands give their assent to Remey? No.

[Riowyn]

Thus the guardian doesn't necessarily HAVE to be a first-born son.

Also: "It is incumbent upon the guardian of the Cause of God to appoint in his own life-time him that shall become his successor, that differences may not arise after his passing."

Shoghi Effendi DID choose someone in his lifetime, because he did not have any "lineal" or biological successors: Mason Remey

[HolyN0va]

Mason Remey was not an Aghsan. Just because someone adopts one as a son or daughter, does not adopt the same blood into them.

[swahela]

aghsan means descendant of bahaullah. the meaning of decendant in english comes from the word decent which means offspring. to be a decendant or offspring constitutes that you will follow that bloodline. its very simple. mason couldnt be guardian or agshan because he was not a descendant of bahaullah. peace

[swahela]

hehe. you don't even have a response to this? i just proved to you that he had to be the same blood line and you say your done. heheh. just think thats funny

[swahela]

i get it. i would end the conversation to if i new i was wrong. how can you possibly prove anything to anyone when you dont even know something as simple as the qualifications of guardianship. i suggest you read the will & testament my friend.

[HolyN0va]

Mason Remey is not a blood male descendant of Baha'u'llah, Baha'u'llah never included adopted individuals into His family as legitimate successors to the Guardianship. Go check out the videos I sent you

Peace

[obfsteve]

From the Will and Testament of Abdu'l-Baha: "Beware, beware, lest the days after the ascension (of Baha'u'llah) be repeated when the Center of Sedition waxed haughty and rebellious and with Divine Unity for his excuse...My object is to show that the Hands of the Cause of God must be ever watchful and so soon as they find anyone beginning to oppose and protest against the guardian of the Cause of God cast him out..."

The cry of unity is no excuse for disobedience to the guardian.

[pwtvantol]

Do I hear the preps for a fresh nice espresso? I can smell it from here... ;-)

Please, not too much sounds on the backgroud!

For a Dutch boy whose english is not that good, I have to really consentrate to understand the words.

Lovely little miniatures with essential information.

Now I can also see and feel the emotions and the atmosphere of the Orthodox Bahai's!

I love it.

Peter van tol

the netherlands, that very little country by the North See

[eglintonboy]

There is no such thing as an orthodox Bahai there are only Bahai's the world over who have been given this beautiful cup to drink from.Let us spend our time in prayer praising God and not quibbling on you tube.