Adventism was preaching righteousness by faith, long before many denominations which are accusing SDA of preaching righteousness by works, were even around. Dead argument!! Is it not strange how the SDA church gets knocked for teaching the sanctuary which is all about the Intercessor at the same time as being accused of teaching salvation by works. What then is the Intercessor doing ?? No logic in the accusations
Sabbath keeping is nothing to do with commandments. Sabbath was around at creation before SIN , before JEWS and before the LAW. Paul states clearly that the law was given to teach us/ remind us . The law did not make murder wrong. Murder was already wrong. The law simply reminded us about the wrongness of murder.
@TheDocterdon69 I teach that Jesus is dead. Just like Ellen G White is dead. And Paul and Peter and Judas and Mary and Mary, they all have 1 thing in common, they're all dead. And the bible should say "A fool says in his heart, Jesus will return."
@TheDocterdon69 When Christ failed to return as predicted in 1844,Adventists devised a teaching to try and explain that something had actually happened in 1844.According to this teaching, the heavenly Day of Atonement began in 1844 and Jesus moved from one room of the sanctuary to another room, shutting the door behind Him. Ellen said "This door was not opened until the mediation of Jesus was finished in the holy place of the sanctuary in 1844(Ellen White,Early Writings, p. 42.)"
By comparing the Biblical evidence found in the Old Testament description of the Day of Atonement (Lev. 16) with the New Testament description of the Day of Atonement (Heb. 9) we will find out exactly when the Day of Atonement happened. "For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us(Heb. 9:24)"
"LORD said unto Moses,Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the veil before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not:for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.(Lev.16:2)
The place of the Lord's presence in the Old Test. tabernacle was upon the mercy seat in the Holiest Place. Christ must have entered in the Holiest Place to appear before the mercy seat of God or the presence of GOd.
Did Jesus open the way into the Holiest upon His ascension?
"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us...(Heb. 10:19,20)"
"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy(Heb. 4:15)"
Jesus opened the way for us to enter into the Most Place where is the throne of Grace or the Mercy seat (the Presence of God)
The Atonement has been completed (see Heb. 10:11-14). At His ascension Christ fulfilled every one of the aspects of the Day of Atonement as described in Leviticus 16:
Christ came as a High Priest to His temple (Heb. 9:11).
@belojo2003 Good points! But it is sad to say, you will never convince a sda that the 1844 IJ teaching is wrong. There system was founded on this, and they have a profit that confirms it. Proof text method out of context is what there theology is built on.
remember, people believed in the Milleright movement, even though others were showing them that date setting was wrong, & they still believed it. It's the same thing hear. There brainwashed and don't even know it.
You've wasted 10 minutes so far telling us nothing, of course I'm not interested in what individual members of any church have to say, I'm interested in the teachings of the church.
Try not to attack another brother or sister in Christ...Christians, how do any of you plan to encourage & uplift one another? I read these comments & it makes me sad to see your words. I don't have to be SDA to know that. I read comments from people all the time on you tube by Christians and it makes me pray for you all...
What are the grounds for picking and choosing and going backwards into the Old Testament and picking out Ezekiel 9, which UNDENIABLY mentions calamity coming upon JERUSALEM.
Let the Bible interpret itself (I mean, read it in order) without interjecting some chapter from Ezekiel from a thousand years earlier and planting it into Revelation. Seriously. Are we this easily deceived? Really?
All have sinned and greatly offended the holy God of the bible. The just punishment is death then hell. That's not Gods will. He suffered and died on the cross paying for the law you broke in His life's blood so He could legally dismiss your case. You must repent turn from sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your salvation
No where in the new testament are we told to keep the sabbath day. It's legalism and if you want to keep the law you must keep the whole law. Jesus is Lord over sabbath and Colossians 2:16 Paul clearly stated let no man judge you of sabbaths etc. Christ alone is our redemption not the sabbath.
Wouldn't it make more sense that if something as life changing as no longer keeping the Sabbath to be told us in the NT? The very reason that it is not mentioned tells me that it wasn't changed. If a two-way street in your town was being changed into a one way street, don't you think that it would be announced for weeks or months in advance in the newspaper and on the TV news? You would not just one day wake up and find it changed. The commandment says remember...
@mrloudcry Which of these, The Ten, do you figure is irrelevant in these new testament times? Certainly not the first, or second, or third, or on and on. Murder, stealing, false witness, adultry.
Hmmm? Why is it only the fourth is so disagreeable?
I would not be to bold to assume that it's because all of christiandom observes the first day of the week, and that adopted pagan Tradition is hard to break.
I would also point out that Christ would never have said not to keep the Ten.
Works are a result of love, on account of Christ sacrificial gift of salvation, not something you do to be saved, as some wish to imply legalism in the adventist church.
So which of the ten don't suit you that you figure Jesus is talking about some other commandments when he say, "if you love me keep my commandments"?
@BibleJesusChristian (part 4)They will see that whatever is taking place (that sounds terrible right now but i look forward to it) is wrong and know that it is not of God and they could have not been keeping the Sabbath before but they were still rooted in the word. So overall, to not receive the mark of the beast you just need that close walk with the Lord. The love, faith, trust, all of it. When you study for yourself you will be surprised as to what God opens your eyes to. It happened to me.
@BibleJesusChristian (part 4)They will see that whatever is taking place (that sounds terrible right now but i look forward to it) is wrong and know that it is not of God and they could have not been keeping the Sabbath before but they were still rooted in the word. So overall, to not receive the mark of the beast you just need that close walk with the Lord. The love, faith, trust, all of it. When you study for yourself you will be surprised as to what God opens your eyes to. It happened to me.
@BibleJesusChristian ( Part 4)They will see that whatever is taking place (that sounds terrible right now but i look forward to it) is wrong and know that it is not of God and they could have not been keeping the Sabbath before but they were still rooted in the word. So overall, to not receive the mark of the beast you just need that close walk with the Lord. The love, faith, trust, all of it. When you study for yourself you will be surprised as to what God opens your eyes to. It happened to me.
@BibleJesusChristian(Part 3) I don't rely on it and say "as long as i do this I'm saved, everyone else who doesn't keep it on this day will burn" That is not at all the situation. I believe Seventh day Adventisim is in fact a movement within the churches (as pastor Doug bachelor stated before) to me, it's a statement to be different from the world, a firm standing in The Word of God and His word alone! People in many denominations will refuse the mark of the beast. . . . .
@BibleJesusChristian (part two) I did not think much of the Sabbath day, but upon studying it in the bible and learning about it for myself I realized that it was just as important as keeping any other of the commandments. Getting into this relationship with the Lord opens your eyes to things. I did not find keeping the Sabbath convenient or important at all at first but now I've come to appreciate it because its simply the Truth. Something God wants us to do so I do it.
@BibleJesusChristian (part 1) besides that you have to love the the Lord and your fellow man. Oh, check out John 14: 15, read it all even. I see what your saying and how you would think that we are saved off of that one law but we are not saved by keeping the Sabbath. A person that loves the Lord will put their faith in Him and trust in Him. Meaning they must indeed trust in His word to instruct them on what to do. Now as for John 14:15 it says "if ye love me keep my commandments" . . . .
@Lonestudious John 14:15 says "if you love me keep my commandments". What commandments? The 10 commandments? The commandments of Jesus? The 10 commandments PLUS the commandments of Jesus? And if we study the epistles of John carefully, what does he say he means by commandments? Believe in the name of Jesus Christ and love one another? Is that what he means?
He is right! Don't look to the internet to find that the founder of SDA was a false prophet.... Go to a library and pick up a few of her books! EGW (sent by God, supposedly) followed the false preachings of William Miller who claimed Jesus would return in 1843-44... Look at her own writings where she falsely predicted that the US would "be pounded into dust " by Britain and that Jerusalem would never be built up.. I'm sure I will get no responses by SDA members because they know I'm right!
A religion focused on the writings of a false prophet. There really is no need to quote scripture to prove that statement. Her own writings prove her to be nothing but a human that was wrong... She wasn't sent by God (as SDA claims). If she was, she wouldn't have believed William Miller's false prophecy or write that the US would be destroyed by England or that Jerusalem would never be built up.. SDA a cult? Absolutely... Less than 1% of Christians are SDA. There is a reason for that..
A great deal of you lack love and general respect for another persons religion. You all throw out your statements hoping to settle the dispute with capitalized letters and exclamation marks. I'm sick of seeing such harsh words and hate between denominations. It will only get worse before it gets better i suppose. . .
Remain loyal to Crhist when the decree comes forth (there is no Mark of the Beast yet) that one MUST go to churchc on Sunday. Think of Daniel, Hananiah, Azariah, and Mishael.
Why is it people have to find excuses when it comes to bible teachings why man cannot accept what the bible says? Jesus says If you love me keep my commanments. what is so wrong with that?
@mag There's nothing wrong with keeping Christ's commandments. They are spiritual imperatives wrought by the Spirit (Jer 31:31-34) But if you believe keeping the 10 C is a means of salvation or retaining salvation you become a perverter of the gospel of grace. "Where the righteousness of the Law ruleth, there cannot the righteousness of grace rule; ...where the righteousness of grace reigneth, there cannot the righteousness of the Law reign; for one must needs give place to the other." M Luther
Why are we fighting, aren't catholics also Christians, our jobs on earth is to spread the word of Jesus Christ, my name is Isaiah and i will do what Isaiah did. This is really pathetic, we spend our lives arguing when we should spread the word of Jesus Christ, amen.
Some people in the Catholic Church & ALL Sunday keeping Churches are Christians but the Churches are not. No Sunday keeping Church is Christian because its not worshipping the God of Israel.
He clearly says in Ezekiel 20:20 that the Shabbat is the IDENTIFYING sign that He is God. It is the only sign separating Him from false gods. So if you are not keeping it then you are not worshipping the God of Israel but are worshipping one of the false gods He is speaking of in Exodus 20:3
In the book of james said it best about being saved. By eaither works or faith he basicly said you need both because faith with out works is worthless...per say I believe that I can get a hundred dollars some day... well if I don't put in the work me saying that is worthless I have to work towards it its not just given
Eph 6:1,2 states that we should Honor our parents in the Lord. If we keep this command are we 'UNDER" that law? and not "UNDER GRACE"? If we keep this command, are we doing that "WORK" to be SAVED? If we claim to to SAVED BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, IS IT OKAY TO NOT HONOR OUR PARENTS SINCE DOING SO MAY HAVE US IN VIOLATION OF BEING PUT UNDER WORKS,SINCE KEEPING LAWS ARE WORKS? IF I DON'T KEEP IT AM I STILL SAVED? OR HAVE I EVER BEEN SAVED? EVEN IF I BELIEVE I AM? FAITH & WORKS CANNOT BE ASUNDER.
@BibleJesusChristian My friend, you have ignored my question. I have tried to answer your questions. You are asking questions that has been answered already. Are you really trying to get answers, or are you being like the pharisees and sadducees, by trying to test Christ for a personal evil agenda? Now since I have made many attempts to answer your question, I will not answer anymore questions from you UNTIL you attempt to answer my one question. God bless, Stan
@BibleJesusChristian I never claimed to be sinless. I said, if all my sins are cleansed, and I am in Christ by faith, then I am sinless in Christ, until I decide to leave Christ even for a second.
I did the best I can to answer all your questions. I probably failed, but I did not backdown from it, and I made an attempt, now can you answer my question? If the sabbath commandment was clear in the NT, would you keep it holy, and if yes, would that be legalistic? Thank you.
@thesangster The sabbath rest is in NT but it would be very hard for you to understand /nothing personal i understand you,i was once there 100% like you are now/ what it really means since we as SDA have been sidetracked big time !
You said "I never claimed to be sinless. if all my sins are cleansed, and I am in Christ by faith, then I am sinless in Christ"! Just apply the same to everybody else.We can't bully people with the sabbath unless we want to be condemned for braking it as well.
@VESANG PT 1... You said "The sabbath rest is in NT but it would be very hard for you to understand..." First, understand what? Second, I did not say the sabbath rest was not in the NT, but the question was posing as a commandment to keep the Sabbath Holy. If there was a clear command to keep it holy, would it be legalistic to do so?
@VESANG PT2....You said: "We can't bully people with the sabbath unless we want to be condemned for braking it as well."
Well as a Christian, you are not suppose to "bully" anyone. So if you are addressing bullies, you're have to address these particular individuals, and tell them, that I believe bullying is wrong no matter what faith you belong to. I have broken the Sabbath many times. I believe forgiveness and enpowering to keep God's law is available only through Christ. HOWEVER.....
@VESANG PT3... However, it is dangerous to teach that it doesn't matter anymore. Let me give you an example, if person #1 believes that adultry is no longer a sin because we're not under the law but under grace, and person #2 says, it is sin. Now both 1 and 2 has commited adultry, however, only one of them would know to repent from it. This is the danger. People that believes the keeping of Sabbath in the NT era is legalistic, vs the other Sabbatarians are in a different place, both break it..
@VESANG PT4...but only one, like me, can repent and be cleansed from it. My job now is to preach the Word to prove to those that believes its legalistic, that it isn't true, and they can repent from that, and move on to another battle of faith in their walk of sanctification. I undestand that sanctification is a process, and part of that process, God raise up preachers of truth, to give people the opportunity to grow with present truth. I hope this helps. God bless. Stan
@VESANG Pt 1 You asked "Do you think the Pharisees kept the sabbath?"
No they didn't.
You asked again "Do you think they kept the whole law in general?"
No they didn't
You asked "Do you keep everything EGW sais?"
No I haven't.
You asked, "Here is how it look on the outside:We say people have to keep the law and EGW but we don't do it ourselves. So how do we solve that dilema?"
We don't say that people have to keep the law, Jesus says this(Jn 14:15). Look at Gal 2:20,...
@thesangster Pt 2 Gal 2:20 shows how Paul had this same dilema also."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I,but Christ liveth in me:n the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God..." Wn Gideon won the war with 300 men against thousands,who won the war?God or Gideon and his army of 300? Look at Judges 7:2 God made it that way so they can recognize its really Him that is able to give you victory over your battles, whether its with sin or war.
@thesangster Pt 3, Look the issue is not whether I have kept it perfectly or not, the issue is, just because you haven't done it yet, or have known anyone that has done it, does that automatically make it impossible? Just because no one prior to Christ has ever walked on water, does that mean it is impossible? I bet you if I asked you is it possible to walk on water you would say yes, but with faith in Christ. Okay, what's the difference?Think about that.Impossible things are possible with God.
@thesangster Pt 4 stop focussing too much on Ellen White.Her role in my life is for Present Truth. God did not have just one prophet to live under till the end of time. Even though the Israelites had the writings of Moses,God still raised prophets during times when present truth was needed. Ellen White was a vessel for God to speak to me in more details for present events.The message of John the Baptist of "behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world was pointing to Christ...
@thesangster Pt 5... Death" Which was for His time, now we look back to it in faith, while John was pointing towards the near future in faith. Different message, for different times. Today we point forward to the 2nd Coming of Christ. Amen? Not the same message of Daniel, of Jeremiah, of John the Baptist. Present truth is very important, but if you're not convicted by her writings, fine, but we don't have to quote her, I can stick to the scriptures alone to support our fundementals. God bless
@thesangster If you want to believe in EGW this is between you and God! You can learn from everybody including the Pope if you want to learn in general. On your Q about the sabbath in NT...If we keep it as the Pharisees did than...it would be NT legalism.Braking one commandment we brake the sabbath as well.The OT law was not only the 10 com,it included sacrifices .If we look for them for our perfection we are doomed.10com are accusers,faith in Jesus is the perfection and the Sabbath rest in NT
@VESANG " PT 1You stated "You can learn from everybody including the Pope if you want to learn in general." We can, which is the same as learning from Pharaoh and from Moses in general, however God raised up Moses not Pharaoh.
"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."(Amos 3:7).
The Kings of Israel understood that, that is why they had prophets with them. That is why King Saul looked to prophets for answers. That is God's M.O. cont....
@thesangster PT 2You stated: "On your Q about the sabbath in NT...If we keep it as the Pharisees did than...it would be NT legalism." You asked me sometime ago did the Pharisees keep the Sabbath, I said No. However, you said, "if we keep it as the Pharisees did..." , what do you mean? I said "NO". They did not keep it. There was only ONE that kept it. That was Jesus Christ. So my question was not answered yet. If there is a commandment in N.T. (this is AFTER THE DEATH OF CHRIST, not BEFORE.)...
@thesangster PT3 If there is a commandment in the N.T. by the apostles to keep the 7th day Sabbath Holy, would that be legalism? It seems like a very simple question, and for some reason, it seems like a lot of people have a very difficult time answering. We see in the Ten Commandment a clear command about the Sabbath, if it was as clear in the NT, after Christs death on the cross, would that be considered legalism if Christians keep it today?
@thesangster Pt4, when I see keep it, I mean the way Christ kept it. I hope we all can agree that Christ kept the sabbath perfectly. Since Christ has never sinned, and sin is to transgress the law. Christ never transgressed the law. So if we are commanded to keep the Sabbath the way Christ kept the 7th day Sabbath, since we are followers of Christ, would that be legalism?
@thesangster Hi Stan! Good point! How did Jesus keep the Sabbath?
What makes you think that you&me keep the sabbath any different than the Pharisees since you&i acknowledge that we brake it?
I answered your Q in the last post. There is a sabbath rest and you enter it trough faith in Jesus Heb4:2,3,6.Paul said it 1000+ times that we are short to the law and it was just a shadow but the body is Christ Col2:16,17.The law was given to accuse us in sin Gal3:19,22.SDA never went past this point!
@VESANG No you have answered my Q, again you stated "There is a sabbath rest", that is not the same as an explicit command that says "remember to keep the Sabbath Holy". Can you at least see my point in that? If you do, again, if there was a clear command to keep the Sabbath day Holy AS WAS IN THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, would that be legalism? I hope you really understand the question this time. God bless,
@VESANG "What makes you think that you&me keep the sabbath any different than the Pharisees since you&i acknowledge that we brake it?"My question is what you think we would not know how to keep it just because we break it?When Jesus told the adulturous woman,Go and sin no more, would He tell us to do something that we don't understand how to do it? Would God gives us laws that we don't understand? You wouldn't know how to love your neighbor if you have broken that already?C'mon, not strong.
@thesangster Hi Stan! Trying to keep track and understand your Sabbath Q. I thought we wanted to discuss it in the context of the Bible. Please correct me if i did not understand you but you asked me if Sabbath was clear commandment in NT would it be legalistic to keep it ? I answered that there is clear Sabbath com in NT.Would it be legalistic if God tells you to give your son as sacrifice against his own 10 com. We can try to imagine all kind's of things...would you help,what's your point ?
@VESANG Thank you, now I know that you're attempting to answer my question. You said you answered it before, however you kept saying, there is a Sabbath rest in the NT, which is not the same. Now you said, There is a clear com in NT, (I don't believe so), but you do accept that point. Now would that be legalistic to keep it? You didn't answer that directly, however you respond by using another hypothetical, which I find to be interesting...
@VESANG ... because although I was being hypothetical, you pretty much claimed that it isn't hypothetical upon your views that the Sabbath command is in the NT. So your hypothetical statement to support your sub statement that "We can try to imagine all kind's of things". Is irrelevant because you believe in a NT sabbath commandment. Now since you do believe its in the NT, is it legalistic to keep it?
@VESANG... Let me respond to your hypothetical refutation, "Would it be legalistic if God tells you to give your son as sacrifice against his own 10 com."
My answer is, NO, it would not be legalistic. In fact it is NEVER legalistic to obey the Lord.
You stated "...would you help,what's your point?" SDA n other Sabbath keeping Christians r accused for being legalistic just because of looking to be obedient to God's commands.The NT is permeated with commands to obey, n that's not legalism.
@thesangster I see your point.Many times people disagree because they put different meaning in the same words.To understand each other better i believe we have to define what legalism is first. I definitely differ from your statement " NO, it would not be legalistic. In fact it is NEVER legalistic to obey the Lord." IMO you can believe even in Jesus legalistically,how much easier to keep the sabbath as the Pharisees and think that you obey the Lord ! So what is legalism IYO?
@thesangster Thank you Stan! At least this definition gives us some foundation. I hope we can agree now that it is not the specific commandment .It is the attitude,not the precise action that makes the performance legalistic. We can do right things with wrong motives.We can even believe in Jesus legalistically Mat7:22
So from the very beginning your Q had two answers.Even if the Sabbath "like you said was in the NT" it depends on the motives /like in OT/ if it's legalistic or not to keep it!
@VESANG I agree with you 100%. It is the motive. So when people are saying SDAs doctrine is legalistic is a strawman fallacy. Our motive is not that we do good works for salvation; however, saved people do good works. What we(SDAs) are debating is that all that are claiming to be saved find it okay to break some laws, and say that they are saved. This is not what saved people do. If we go against this theology, now we're legalistic. Do you think that is fair?
@thesangster If you let me add,legalism is in everyone of us.Christians do good and bad things, sometimes with good motives many times with motives we are unwilling to acknowledge.I agree that somebody trying to establish Sunday as God's day of worship proclaims him self legalist right there on the spot!The main product of legalism is holding somebody else accountable to a standard you never apply to yourself !SDA is not different.We blame Catholics for the same things we do point by point! Love
@thesangster Typical example of legalism would be the bail out of one of the reaches people and banks in the world. If you and i fail to make our payment according to the law they will kick us out of the house and they will claim that this is the right thing to do! But when they are in financial trouble they will go all the way against the law taking money from you&me so they can keep what they have and even add extra bonuses for themselves. Sadly Religion is no different !
@VESANG Yes, I agree, however lets not forget that God is for religion as long as it is pure and true.(James 1:26, 27 KJV) The Scriptures support religion, but God's religion. I don'[t mean to be critical but lately I notice a rise against religion in general by Christians, when they say that "Christianity is not a religion; religion is man made." That isn't true, so I have made it a habit to show that God accepts pure religion which cannot be created by man, only by God, therefore God if 4 it.
@thesangster The NT is a lot different than the OT.Heb goes point by point to explain it but since the SDA has sidetracked us to think only trough the eyes of EGW and the GC it is hard to reverse that attitude and take again the Bible as the authority to explain.Why do you need book of 28 SDA believes /which is 50% more than the entire NT/?Answer :To make you follow a "human god" once again.
Love fulfills the law incl the Sabbath.Tons of verses on this but for SDA it doesn't matter !
@BibleJesusChristian No I cannot do all things. Christ Can do all things, and through Christ, He can enable me to do all things. Even live a perfect life without sin, however, that is contengent on my faith in His Power. No one is able to walk on water, but with Christ you can because Peter did, and he did not do it perfectly not because it wasn't available for him to,but because of his unbelief.And Christ asked him why did he doubt.HE placed the responsibility on Peter for not using the power.
@thesangster Pt 2...So if Christt is keeping you from falling,does that mean that YOU take credit for it No, so you can't boast. You have sinful flesh, you cannot do it,and if you do it that means God is clearly getting glorified because that is a miracle. To live a life without sin is a miracle. It is impossible, but with God all things are possible. This is all scripture, and I knew this message from reading the bible long before I became a SDA, this is why I was amazed,I thought I was alone.
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. (Gal 2:20)
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. Phil 4:13
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous - 1 jn 2:1
@thesangster Pt 2 Is it possible to sin while being in No, However, is it possible to get out of Christ to sin, YES. Have I sinned, yes, Have I broken the 10C? Yes. That is what sin is.(1 john 3:4) We have all sinned, and come short of the glory.(Rom 2). Am I double talking? No, do you think I'm double talking? Obviously, YES. I am clear, but you cannot see it. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned, I hope your praying before your read and type. Don't let the carnal interpret.
@thesangster Pt 3. Just because I have sinned, and I have asked for forgiveness, and believe that I am cleansed by the blood of Christ through faith, and made a decision to follow him fully, doesn't mean I'm legalistic. Just because I believe to "love my neighbor as myself" as Christ commanded me to do, doesn't mean I'm legalistic. Just because I believe to love God with all my heart, mind, and soul, which includes keeping the day He made holy in Creation for US and HiM to share, doesn't mean.
@thesangster Pt 4... Cont. .. doesn't mean I'm legalistic. We have to becareful about that.
Let me ask you a question. If there were a clear commandment that says, "Remember to keep the Sabbath day Holy" in the New Testament, would you keep it?
If Yes, does that make you legalistic?
Think about this question carefully before answering.
@BibleJesusChristian Q:Only the times I commited a sin, I was classified a sinner, however when I came to the throne of Grace(heb 4:16), I went to my Mediator(heb 8:6) in faith, and He cleansed me from ALL unrighteousness(1 jn 1:9), and by faith,I am not a sinner while I'm in Christ.But if I backaway from that protection, and I commit a sin, then I would be a sinner,and Christ is still there waiting for me to come back(1 jn 2:1). A just man falleth down seven times, and get up again(Prv 24:16).
@BibleJesusChristian The word "cult" is subjective. The Christians were also considered cults also, and yet you are a Christian. So the wrong faith can call the right faith cults, and this is a sign of the persecution in the last days. So keep it coming.
Now Q 1: Yes; Q 2: Well this question is a Y and N, and needs further study. Q3: No, this is not our position. There is nothing we can do to be saved, it is a gift of Christ. Cont....
@BibleJesusChristian Let me get this clear, you don't believe as a Christian, that you are to obey Christ? Because if you obey Christ, that is work, do you agree with that? If you disobey Christ then that is not work, do you believe that Christian are not to have works in their life at all? Why can't the Holy Spirit gives us ability to keep the Sabbath and everything we are to keep as Christian?, why is this mere human effort to you?
@thesangster Pt 2... If a job is offerred to me by a friend, I accept the job. I did nothing to earn that job, I can't boast about anything, especially because I was qualified for that position. Now that I have that position, there are tasks for me to perform because I have it. Now if I do my task, the task that I do doesn't get me the job, but it confirms that I have the job. I can say with confidence that I am a (desired occupation) because that is what I do. Cont...
@thesangster Pt 3... I did not do anything to get the job(salvation), I took it trusting in my friend (faith in Christ) that I have the job(I am saved). Now I have a new boss (I have a new Lord). Christ said, why do you call me Lord if you do not do the things that I say?(Luke 6:46) By that statement there is an expectation that Christ expect His followers to DO. What ever they are, they are works, and Greater works shall he do, says Christ(john 14:12.) Not to be saved. Cont...
@thesangster Pt 4... Let me give you some more scripture, If you claim that you know Him(have a relationship with Christ) and don't keep His commandments, you are a liar(1 John 2:4), Matthew 7:21 says" Not everyone that says Lord Lord, will enter into the kingdom, but those do DOES THE WILL of my father."
So who are we really against? When we say we can't keep it even while we have a relationship? These are liars according to Christ, and liars will be cast into the lake of fire.
GODS COMMANDS ARE TO BE KEPT BUT THEY ARE NOT KEPT BY US NOR ARE THEY HELD BY FLESHLY ABILITY!!! EXAMPLE : WE ARE TO BE BORN AGAIN BY THE SPIRIT ! WHY? BECAUSE IT IS BY THE SPIRIT WE WALK AND THE COMMANDS ARE KEPT BY THIS POWER OR CHANGE: THE NEW BIRTH IS THAT YOU DIE TO FLESH WILL FOR SPIRIT! GODS LAW IS SPIRIT NOT FLESH! NOW THE COMMANDS ARE DEEPER THEN FLESH KEEPING: JESUS EXPLAINS : AS HE GOES THROUGH THEM AND ADDS"" BUT I SAY" TAKING THE COMMANDS TO THE HEART! SO DO NOT DISREGARD GODS LA
In the BIBLE it states that everyone will be judge according 2 His Works Rev 20 10 The devil, who deceived them,...... 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were JUDGED ACCORDING to THEIR WORKS, by the things which were written in the books. 13 "...And they were judged, EACH 1 ACCORDING to HIS WORKS. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”
we have a sin debt resulting from Adams breaking a command of god. That law doesnt exist now for the tree isn`t around any more. Law was added later but our sinful nature was formed at that point. No laws are required for us to be sinners. God created a nation to represent him on earth then The Written code was added . Col 2:14 clearly states the cancelling of the written code (10 commandments written by god) and its regulations(ceremonial) nailing them to the cross.
And the dragon was angry at the woman and declared war against the rest of her children--all who keep God's commandments and maintain their testimony for Jesus. [18] Then the dragon took his stand on the shore beside the sea.
Today, for us as SDAs who believe in the perpetuity of the law, it’s important. The righteousness that saves us, sinners need covering us like a garment, is a righteousness that has been made manifest “without the lawIt’s the righteousness of Jesus, the righteousness of His life, the righteousness that brings us “the redemption that is Christ Jesus.” The redemption is in Him, it is found in Him, not in ourselves or in our law-keeping, and this redemption becomes ours by faith.
Gal 3:24,25 the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified faith. Now that faith has come , we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
To go back under the law is to ignore Christs sacrifice.
@damted ceremonial laws were nailed to the cross not the 10 Commandments plus read the last chapter of the Bible the people standing outside the gates of Heaven are people who have transgress against God Laws. Love and Peace we can do all things through Christ who strengths us and nothing is impossible with Him. If you say you can not sin that is saying the devil (who created sin) is more powerful then our Creator.
Remember in the bible when it says the devil fooled the whole world that is why people think the SDA is a cult the SDA teaches according to the Bible including Ellen G White she goes according to the Bible nothing different. If you don't care about how you treat your body, your creator, your neighbors then then how do you expect God to view you as being a Christian. Please read the Holy Bible and go to amazingfacts website to get the facts. Love
@ExEGW The dragon that is mention is the devil Rev 20:2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand yearsThe whore is the church that cheated on Jesus by listening to the devil rather than Jesus. Most of the time women in the Bible is a symbol of the church u continue on reading the Bible will explain itself Rev is not figurative speech but is a revealing of what is yet to come the title of the pope Vicarus Fili Dei in RMN numeral is 666
God loves us so much He gave His Son, not to condemn, but to save. Whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life Glory of the gospel! Jesus took our place Gift of God This is true for u, long as u don’t reject it Light has come into the world, but men love the darkness instead of the light bc there deeds were evil. Evil hates the light & will not come to the light, for fear there deeds will be exposed. So my friends come to the light! Believing Receiving same thing
@ExEGW Please becareful not to grieve the Holy Spirit and harden your heart to God because if you do not have the Holy Spirit living in you you will not be ready for the day of redemption. Jesus said if you love Me keep My commandments 1-4 teaches how to love God 5-10 teaches how to love your neighbor in the last chapter of the bible it says who will be in the gates of heaven which will be the people who were doers of the word and not just hearers which means God Commandments
@brendos444 I think Doug is sincere person but as many of us we have no idea how ease is for people to manipulate us into a cult.We are so naive and this is exactly what IMO satan uses to take us off focus which is to love one another and do to others what we want them do to us.Now we argue about cults when cult is inside of everyone of us.We are all sinners! We argue about EGW like she is the founder of Christianity or something...when she needs the forgiveness of Jesus as we do BIG TIME!
I totally agree with you on the need to love each other. that is the only duty for a Christian. the problem is that you have ppl like Doug, EGW etc focusing on micromanaging our lives on issues where the Bible is either silent or is ambiguous. eg the health message. Where in the Bible do the disciples incorporate a health message and proclaim vegetarianism? It is always insinuated in SDA circles that they are better than everyone cos they have the health message. They judge ppl on these issues.
@PreparetomeetthyGod It's this kind of prideful attitude that may impair your readiness "tomeetthyGod". No church has the whole truth. No church should suppose that it is superior to all others. Finally, salvation is ultimately an individual thing. Belonging to any organization can't save you in the end. if you keep on believing that you are superior, you put yourself in danger. you sound like the pharisee in Luke 18. I'd rather be like the tax collector.
@brendos444 I will not say that SDA is superior however; look at the facts of what SDA stands for they are all about the lifestyle of being Christian Ask yourself did Jesus eat pork, did he keep the Sabbath on the first day of the week, did he fancy apparel, and the list can go on and on. The SDA does have the truth of Jesus testimony however just because you are an SDA does not mean you get a VIP ticket to Heaven
@oyefollowerofJesus What you say about Jesus is true. But diet is a secondary issue to the gospel. Often SDAs raise secondary issues above the level that scripture gives them often at the expense of primary doctrines like grace etc. When a denomination does this, they are in error.
@brendos444 Remember Jesus Healed people that is part of ministry. If we do not watch what we eat or treat our bodies how will we be able to teach the good news to people on our death bed. I have seen alot of people die from not taking proper care of their body remember our body is our temple. From what I have seen Pastor Doug does not carry a I am better than you approach he always say pray for him that he makes it as well as yourself and always read the Bible don't take his word but Jesus word
@brendos444 there is not a first or second it is an overall once you accept Jesus in the way that you are he will help you and guide you to clean up. I wish that we can see through the eyes of God he would probably be disappointed that we are having disagreement in regards to what he has written Pastor Doug did not write the Bible God did and he blessed certain people with the gifts of prophecy which God said he will in his last dies there are many prophets out in the last days. Bible explains
@oyefollowerofJesus Doug did not write the Bible, he interprets it and often he is incorrect. The Holy Spirit wrote the Bible through inspiring human beings. We are to study the scriptures ourselves and receive help from the HS to gain understanding. there are some things that Christians can disagree on. But the important things are plain. Doug often gets dogmatic about secondary things
@brendos444 Another thing is that sometimes he just gets the Bible narrative wrong because he read EGW. For eg in his women minister sermon, he said that Eve left Adam's side when she was tempted. This is not what the bible says. It says that Adam was with her! His version of the story comes from EGW. Also in his end times series dvd, he says that Satan appeared as an angel of light to Jesus when he was tempted in the wilderness. But the Bible doesn't say this. EGW does tho. Sola Scriptura pls!!
@brendos444 Doug is not dogmatic in anyway he always refer to himself that he is a veggie however you can still eat clean meat and things of that nature however you have to go according to the scriptures in regards to what anyone says and you right Doug & EGW did not write the Bible they just interprets it that is all people are afraid of what Jesus said to do People should not be made at SDA becuz they didnt write the Bible God did If you ever in doubt do what Jesus did which includes dieting
btw, i'm not talking about all SDAs. And I agree that everyone including doug and EGW need our forgiveness. What i'm talking about are teachings that obscure the gospel and Jesus' command that we love one another. One of the surest signs of man-made religion are excessive rules, usually trivial ones like vegetarianism, that are elevated far above the importance that scripture places on them. The pharisees did this. I think the SDAs used to do this, certainly conservatives still do this
There is no doubt that some Adventists r very legalistic, just like I've ran into some crazy Baptists who their families are within a "Patriarchal" system, where the kids have to marry who the father decides. But vegetarianism? Yikes, that is not a trivial rule. Even if religion did not exist, I'd be pushing for vegetarianism, as the science is OVERWHELMING now...categorically DECIDED those who live such a lifestyle, they will live longer! And feel better! I've been a vegan for 18 years!
@Lysimachus78 I know that vegetarianism is good for you, but what has that got to do with the gospel? When did Christ or the apostles make a big deal about diet?
@brendos444 Here is what diet has to do with the Gospel.First you have to believe in EGW which automatically requires you to believe in the SDA church as the only true church of God and become a member of it,then you have to believe everything that SDA teaches in order to remain saved and there it comes that if you are not vegetarian at the end times you will be lost.How is that?Doesn't it sound like the gospel to you? I can't believe you can't see the connection!
@VESANG this is absolutely false you do not have to be a veggie to be saved according to SDA. They teach that you will be healthier however not a matter of being saved. In the beginning Adam and Eve were veggies and when we prayerfully go to heaven we will be veggies as well we will not have a Burger King or Wendy's up there please visit amazingfacts website to get the facts. The devil just does not like the truth at all to be exposed. love
@oyefollowerofJesus I appreciate your love attitude my brother! Your logic is right and tells you that salvation has nothing to do with being veggie. Not so with EGW. It seems to me that you are not familiar with her writings but i can understand.Usually SDA members know very few things about her and SDA church history. You said "SDA teaches according to the Bible including Ellen G White ".I wish it was truth! Please watch here on youtube "SDA the spirit behind" and see for yourself.Love
@VESANG I am fully aware of the history of the church and her teaches if you an SDA member you are pretty much into the word of the Bible God talked about pouring His Spirit on women and men who will prophesies. You will know a false prophet by them speak of biblical truths. Ellen G. White does that and at the time of 1844 when most thought Jesus was coming back the corrected their wrongs by studying the scriptures and had a true revival so that people can go back to pleasing God. Love
@oyefollowerofJesus I actually think that the SDA health message is a form of the prosperity gospel - the healthy, wealthy and wise gospel. It takes away and distorts the true gospel message that we are saved by grace thru faith in Jesus apart from our works. Of course a real faith is one that LEADS to good works, but our salvation is not BECAUSE of our good works.
@brendos444 I think you'll find that with a lot of Doug's presentations, there is pride lurking underneath. This "i'm better than you" attitude creeps in and sometimes rears its head in his sermons. He delivered a disgraceful sermon on women in ministry not long ago. You can agree with his position, but the way he delivered the message was shocking. Full of sarcastic remarks and derogatory comments. It was shameful.
@brendos444 And the thing about Doug is that he seems to be above reproach. These independent ministries are a law unto themselves. They don't heed the reproach of the church. I've even heard Doug say that he has no loyalty to the SDA church. He is a law unto himself. This is not biblical. Who then has the authority to rebuke him? No one it seems, for he thinks that his interpretation of scripture is right and if you don't agree with him, u must be totally wrong.
@brendos444 SDA is concern for other people that is why at fellowship meals they usually do not supply meat becuz alot of people with high cholesterol and etc should not eat meat becuz they are killing themselves Health is part of ministry or Jesus would not of healed people it is a reason why God said to eat certain meats becuz you are what you eat. the whole Eve & Adam why did the serpent only speak to Eve then if Adam was with her & the Bible does not say that he was or only that he ate too
@brendos444 Pastor Doug help me to get closer to the truth not all people who hear Jesus truth will accept even the Bible talks about how people will view you strange once accepting the truth. Remember the Pharisees called Jesus the devil when he was performing miracles. Remember the devil was to stomp out the truth he came to deceive the whole world even the very elect tell me this what church group is follow the Bible as close as the SDA who and where and I will check it out.
If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 2 Cor 3:7-8
Ever notice that when he seems to quote from the bible (Like ACTS) or HEBREWS chapter 8 verse 1 & 2 that he physically points at his bible but never turns any pages this guy has X-RAY VISION!
Talk bout ELLEN G WHITES false prophesies she is the founder of this church..truly don't look to the internet for source nah!!! look to the writings of ELLEN G WHITE and we are sure to find answers...tell me I lie!!! boom bang bing!!
about that soy meat wagon... it had product brand names that were sold exclusively for the church, much like the book publishing company they own and sell ppl in Dr. offices, i filled out a card in a dental office and got a freaky scary men knocking on my door... i did not tell them i wanted a home visit... this man saw i was a woman alone and was afraid, so he went and got an elder to try to pound my door down with him and intimidate me to answer...
Do you not realize that all of creation is holy? Yet then why do you hate the world? Why do you hate your neighbor? Why do you hate the Image? SEE FOLKS how serious beast worship is doponotte actually thinks the image is holy but be are not to worship the beast or its image..
pastor, pastor pastor, the problem here is with my church, (seventh day adventist)
that even if I accept the death of christ for my sins and I believe that through faith, and all that, .....But if I do not accept the teachings of Helen White, you wont baptize me!
I really think that our church has a big problem..
Adventism was preaching righteousness by faith, long before many denominations which are accusing SDA of preaching righteousness by works, were even around. Dead argument!! Is it not strange how the SDA church gets knocked for teaching the sanctuary which is all about the Intercessor at the same time as being accused of teaching salvation by works. What then is the Intercessor doing ?? No logic in the accusations
theotherside70 1 month ago
Sabbath keeping is nothing to do with commandments. Sabbath was around at creation before SIN , before JEWS and before the LAW. Paul states clearly that the law was given to teach us/ remind us . The law did not make murder wrong. Murder was already wrong. The law simply reminded us about the wrongness of murder.
theotherside70 1 month ago
It is finished ! Sin has all been paid for once and for all I see SDA teaching false doctrine.
mattsmoski3737 2 months ago
@mattsmoski3737 watch 430 of the video. Watch again, he says that.
ooDuckey01 2 months ago
This is what you believe now, Helen G White the SDA's founding prophetess does not believe Jesus is the intercessor, but there is no intercessor.
XXYforLIFE 3 months ago
@XXYforLIFE if you were listening it isEllen G White, and all she teaches is Jesus is our Saviour
TheDocterdon69 2 months ago
@TheDocterdon69 I teach that Jesus is dead. Just like Ellen G White is dead. And Paul and Peter and Judas and Mary and Mary, they all have 1 thing in common, they're all dead. And the bible should say "A fool says in his heart, Jesus will return."
XXYforLIFE 2 months ago
@XXYforLIFE I will pray for you, for if you read your Bible you will know Jesus is live and is in Heaven Amen
TheDocterdon69 2 months ago
@TheDocterdon69 When Christ failed to return as predicted in 1844,Adventists devised a teaching to try and explain that something had actually happened in 1844.According to this teaching, the heavenly Day of Atonement began in 1844 and Jesus moved from one room of the sanctuary to another room, shutting the door behind Him. Ellen said "This door was not opened until the mediation of Jesus was finished in the holy place of the sanctuary in 1844(Ellen White,Early Writings, p. 42.)"
belojo2003 1 month ago
@TheDocterdon69 Answer1:
By comparing the Biblical evidence found in the Old Testament description of the Day of Atonement (Lev. 16) with the New Testament description of the Day of Atonement (Heb. 9) we will find out exactly when the Day of Atonement happened. "For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us(Heb. 9:24)"
Where is the "presence of God"?
belojo2003 1 month ago
@TheDocterdon69 Answer2:
"LORD said unto Moses,Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the veil before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not:for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.(Lev.16:2)
The place of the Lord's presence in the Old Test. tabernacle was upon the mercy seat in the Holiest Place. Christ must have entered in the Holiest Place to appear before the mercy seat of God or the presence of GOd.
belojo2003 1 month ago
@TheDocterdon69 Answer3
Did Jesus open the way into the Holiest upon His ascension?
"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us...(Heb. 10:19,20)"
"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy(Heb. 4:15)"
Jesus opened the way for us to enter into the Most Place where is the throne of Grace or the Mercy seat (the Presence of God)
Not in 1844!
belojo2003 1 month ago
@TheDocterdon69 Answer4
The Atonement has been completed (see Heb. 10:11-14). At His ascension Christ fulfilled every one of the aspects of the Day of Atonement as described in Leviticus 16:
Christ came as a High Priest to His temple (Heb. 9:11).
He entered by His own blood (Heb. 9:12).
He purified the heavenly copies with His blood (Heb. 9:23)
He appeared before the presence of God (Heb. 9:24)
His blood cleansed His people from sin (Heb. 9:14)
SDA 1844 a is false teaching
belojo2003 1 month ago
@belojo2003 Good points! But it is sad to say, you will never convince a sda that the 1844 IJ teaching is wrong. There system was founded on this, and they have a profit that confirms it. Proof text method out of context is what there theology is built on.
remember, people believed in the Milleright movement, even though others were showing them that date setting was wrong, & they still believed it. It's the same thing hear. There brainwashed and don't even know it.
game11221 2 weeks ago
@game11221 Thanks. I agree with you because SDAs don't want to repent in their false teachings. That's it
belojo2003 2 weeks ago
@belojo2003 ...it can also be said about your beliefs!
upholdingthetruth 2 weeks ago
You've wasted 10 minutes so far telling us nothing, of course I'm not interested in what individual members of any church have to say, I'm interested in the teachings of the church.
XXYforLIFE 3 months ago
@XXYforLIFE so true smh..
BROTHER77711 2 months ago
Try not to attack another brother or sister in Christ...Christians, how do any of you plan to encourage & uplift one another? I read these comments & it makes me sad to see your words. I don't have to be SDA to know that. I read comments from people all the time on you tube by Christians and it makes me pray for you all...
ShonM33 3 months ago
What are the grounds for picking and choosing and going backwards into the Old Testament and picking out Ezekiel 9, which UNDENIABLY mentions calamity coming upon JERUSALEM.
Let the Bible interpret itself (I mean, read it in order) without interjecting some chapter from Ezekiel from a thousand years earlier and planting it into Revelation. Seriously. Are we this easily deceived? Really?
StratMatt777 3 months ago
Jesus didn't say that Muhommad was coming 500 years later to revise and update his teachings and alter His holy word.
Jesus didn't say that Charles Taze Russell was coming 1800 years later to revise and update his teachings and alter His holy word.
Jesus didn't say that Joseph Smith was coming 1800 years later to revise and update his teachings and alter His holy word.
Jesus didn't say that Ellen G. White was coming 1800 years later to revise and update his teachings and alter His holy word.
StratMatt777 3 months ago
@StratMatt777
Jesus did say that protestant reformation will culminate with Elijah in Matthew 17:11.
This prophet was to come & REFORM things
PreparetomeetthyGod 3 months ago
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All have sinned and greatly offended the holy God of the bible. The just punishment is death then hell. That's not Gods will. He suffered and died on the cross paying for the law you broke in His life's blood so He could legally dismiss your case. You must repent turn from sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your salvation
mamainmancj 3 months ago
No where in the new testament are we told to keep the sabbath day. It's legalism and if you want to keep the law you must keep the whole law. Jesus is Lord over sabbath and Colossians 2:16 Paul clearly stated let no man judge you of sabbaths etc. Christ alone is our redemption not the sabbath.
mamainmancj 3 months ago
@mamainmancj
Wouldn't it make more sense that if something as life changing as no longer keeping the Sabbath to be told us in the NT? The very reason that it is not mentioned tells me that it wasn't changed. If a two-way street in your town was being changed into a one way street, don't you think that it would be announced for weeks or months in advance in the newspaper and on the TV news? You would not just one day wake up and find it changed. The commandment says remember...
threekidstoomany 2 months ago
@mamainmancj
Starting it with remember tells me that one day it would be forgotten.
threekidstoomany 2 months ago
@mrloudcry Which of these, The Ten, do you figure is irrelevant in these new testament times? Certainly not the first, or second, or third, or on and on. Murder, stealing, false witness, adultry.
Hmmm? Why is it only the fourth is so disagreeable?
I would not be to bold to assume that it's because all of christiandom observes the first day of the week, and that adopted pagan Tradition is hard to break.
I would also point out that Christ would never have said not to keep the Ten.
dietwithmiller 4 months ago
@dietwithmiller Because: 1. The old law was nailed to the cross.
2. Salvation is a gift of grace to those who believe. If you believe in the name of Jesus you have assurance you are saved.
3. Jesus said that sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.
4. Sabbath breaking was a big first reason the Jews wanted to kill Jesus
5. Col 2:13 " Let no man be your judge in regard to food (vegan) or drink or sabbath days" etc.
6. When asked, Jesus quoted 9 of the 10 commandments to the man.
StratMatt777 3 months ago
Works are a result of love, on account of Christ sacrificial gift of salvation, not something you do to be saved, as some wish to imply legalism in the adventist church.
So which of the ten don't suit you that you figure Jesus is talking about some other commandments when he say, "if you love me keep my commandments"?
dietwithmiller 5 months ago
@dietwithmiller Have you ever considered, that Jesus meant HIS commandments i.e. his own teachings?
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: Matthew 28:20
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. John 15:12
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1 John 3:23
Love is God's Commandment to NT Christians PLEASE READ 2 JOHN 1:4-6 Carefully
mrloudcry 4 months ago
Watch "be honest about the Sabbath" on youtube
egwhitensatan 5 months ago
@boblackey1
Jesus only gave 1 new commandment, and it was given only to his disciples,
all of the rest of the commandments came from God the Father.
Bepps100 5 months ago
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@BibleJesusChristian (part 4)They will see that whatever is taking place (that sounds terrible right now but i look forward to it) is wrong and know that it is not of God and they could have not been keeping the Sabbath before but they were still rooted in the word. So overall, to not receive the mark of the beast you just need that close walk with the Lord. The love, faith, trust, all of it. When you study for yourself you will be surprised as to what God opens your eyes to. It happened to me.
Lonestudious 5 months ago
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@BibleJesusChristian (part 4)They will see that whatever is taking place (that sounds terrible right now but i look forward to it) is wrong and know that it is not of God and they could have not been keeping the Sabbath before but they were still rooted in the word. So overall, to not receive the mark of the beast you just need that close walk with the Lord. The love, faith, trust, all of it. When you study for yourself you will be surprised as to what God opens your eyes to. It happened to me.
Lonestudious 5 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian ( Part 4)They will see that whatever is taking place (that sounds terrible right now but i look forward to it) is wrong and know that it is not of God and they could have not been keeping the Sabbath before but they were still rooted in the word. So overall, to not receive the mark of the beast you just need that close walk with the Lord. The love, faith, trust, all of it. When you study for yourself you will be surprised as to what God opens your eyes to. It happened to me.
Lonestudious 5 months ago
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Lonestudious 5 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian(Part 3) I don't rely on it and say "as long as i do this I'm saved, everyone else who doesn't keep it on this day will burn" That is not at all the situation. I believe Seventh day Adventisim is in fact a movement within the churches (as pastor Doug bachelor stated before) to me, it's a statement to be different from the world, a firm standing in The Word of God and His word alone! People in many denominations will refuse the mark of the beast. . . . .
Lonestudious 5 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian (part two) I did not think much of the Sabbath day, but upon studying it in the bible and learning about it for myself I realized that it was just as important as keeping any other of the commandments. Getting into this relationship with the Lord opens your eyes to things. I did not find keeping the Sabbath convenient or important at all at first but now I've come to appreciate it because its simply the Truth. Something God wants us to do so I do it.
Lonestudious 5 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian (part 1) besides that you have to love the the Lord and your fellow man. Oh, check out John 14: 15, read it all even. I see what your saying and how you would think that we are saved off of that one law but we are not saved by keeping the Sabbath. A person that loves the Lord will put their faith in Him and trust in Him. Meaning they must indeed trust in His word to instruct them on what to do. Now as for John 14:15 it says "if ye love me keep my commandments" . . . .
Lonestudious 5 months ago
@Lonestudious John 14:15 says "if you love me keep my commandments". What commandments? The 10 commandments? The commandments of Jesus? The 10 commandments PLUS the commandments of Jesus? And if we study the epistles of John carefully, what does he say he means by commandments? Believe in the name of Jesus Christ and love one another? Is that what he means?
boblackey1 5 months ago
He is right! Don't look to the internet to find that the founder of SDA was a false prophet.... Go to a library and pick up a few of her books! EGW (sent by God, supposedly) followed the false preachings of William Miller who claimed Jesus would return in 1843-44... Look at her own writings where she falsely predicted that the US would "be pounded into dust " by Britain and that Jerusalem would never be built up.. I'm sure I will get no responses by SDA members because they know I'm right!
imax1971 6 months ago
A religion focused on the writings of a false prophet. There really is no need to quote scripture to prove that statement. Her own writings prove her to be nothing but a human that was wrong... She wasn't sent by God (as SDA claims). If she was, she wouldn't have believed William Miller's false prophecy or write that the US would be destroyed by England or that Jerusalem would never be built up.. SDA a cult? Absolutely... Less than 1% of Christians are SDA. There is a reason for that..
imax1971 6 months ago
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Pearl Trees Of Life [a vast Bible Resource tool]:
[3w dot] pearltrees [dot com] [forwardslash] awhn
Freely You Have Received, Freely Give...
AWHNNOH 6 months ago
A great deal of you lack love and general respect for another persons religion. You all throw out your statements hoping to settle the dispute with capitalized letters and exclamation marks. I'm sick of seeing such harsh words and hate between denominations. It will only get worse before it gets better i suppose. . .
Lonestudious 6 months ago
@Lonestudious @snoopyredhat White people are THE BEASTS of prophecy - OBVIOUSLY!!!!
White people are making WAR Against The Muslim SAINTS and against Humanity!!
White war 3 coming sooooooon - they will release THEIR VIRUSES and Create A FAMINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
White people are the riders of the horsemen of THE APOCALPSE!!!
Babylon THE GREAT - THE WHORE IS WHITE AMERIKKKA!!!!!
The Rapture is A White Satanic Hoax -only 144,000 will come out of Tribulation - meaning they were in it!!
HorChild 6 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian
Remain loyal to Crhist when the decree comes forth (there is no Mark of the Beast yet) that one MUST go to churchc on Sunday. Think of Daniel, Hananiah, Azariah, and Mishael.
Jesus said, if you love me KEEP my commandments.
FearNoWeapon777 6 months ago
people are religious in the 21st century lol
grow up guys...
probber66 7 months ago
@probber66
ive since become a christian. please ignore my prior post
probber66 7 months ago
Why is it people have to find excuses when it comes to bible teachings why man cannot accept what the bible says? Jesus says If you love me keep my commanments. what is so wrong with that?
maggee45 8 months ago
@mag There's nothing wrong with keeping Christ's commandments. They are spiritual imperatives wrought by the Spirit (Jer 31:31-34) But if you believe keeping the 10 C is a means of salvation or retaining salvation you become a perverter of the gospel of grace. "Where the righteousness of the Law ruleth, there cannot the righteousness of grace rule; ...where the righteousness of grace reigneth, there cannot the righteousness of the Law reign; for one must needs give place to the other." M Luther
brianhyde63 6 months ago
Why are we fighting, aren't catholics also Christians, our jobs on earth is to spread the word of Jesus Christ, my name is Isaiah and i will do what Isaiah did. This is really pathetic, we spend our lives arguing when we should spread the word of Jesus Christ, amen.
lio10g 8 months ago
@lio10g
Some people in the Catholic Church & ALL Sunday keeping Churches are Christians but the Churches are not. No Sunday keeping Church is Christian because its not worshipping the God of Israel.
He clearly says in Ezekiel 20:20 that the Shabbat is the IDENTIFYING sign that He is God. It is the only sign separating Him from false gods. So if you are not keeping it then you are not worshipping the God of Israel but are worshipping one of the false gods He is speaking of in Exodus 20:3
PreparetomeetthyGod 8 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod
I agree with you
maggee45 8 months ago
In the book of james said it best about being saved. By eaither works or faith he basicly said you need both because faith with out works is worthless...per say I believe that I can get a hundred dollars some day... well if I don't put in the work me saying that is worthless I have to work towards it its not just given
wlp37 9 months ago
Eph 6:1,2 states that we should Honor our parents in the Lord. If we keep this command are we 'UNDER" that law? and not "UNDER GRACE"? If we keep this command, are we doing that "WORK" to be SAVED? If we claim to to SAVED BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, IS IT OKAY TO NOT HONOR OUR PARENTS SINCE DOING SO MAY HAVE US IN VIOLATION OF BEING PUT UNDER WORKS,SINCE KEEPING LAWS ARE WORKS? IF I DON'T KEEP IT AM I STILL SAVED? OR HAVE I EVER BEEN SAVED? EVEN IF I BELIEVE I AM? FAITH & WORKS CANNOT BE ASUNDER.
thesangster 9 months ago
@thesangster we keep the commandments because we are saved ,by faith and not by works
TheDocterdon69 2 months ago
@TheDocterdon69 Amen. I'm trying to get some professed Christians to see that also. God bless.
Stan
thesangster 2 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian My friend, you have ignored my question. I have tried to answer your questions. You are asking questions that has been answered already. Are you really trying to get answers, or are you being like the pharisees and sadducees, by trying to test Christ for a personal evil agenda? Now since I have made many attempts to answer your question, I will not answer anymore questions from you UNTIL you attempt to answer my one question. God bless, Stan
thesangster 9 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian I never claimed to be sinless. I said, if all my sins are cleansed, and I am in Christ by faith, then I am sinless in Christ, until I decide to leave Christ even for a second.
I did the best I can to answer all your questions. I probably failed, but I did not backdown from it, and I made an attempt, now can you answer my question? If the sabbath commandment was clear in the NT, would you keep it holy, and if yes, would that be legalistic? Thank you.
thesangster 10 months ago
@thesangster The sabbath rest is in NT but it would be very hard for you to understand /nothing personal i understand you,i was once there 100% like you are now/ what it really means since we as SDA have been sidetracked big time !
You said "I never claimed to be sinless. if all my sins are cleansed, and I am in Christ by faith, then I am sinless in Christ"! Just apply the same to everybody else.We can't bully people with the sabbath unless we want to be condemned for braking it as well.
VESANG 10 months ago
@VESANG PT 1... You said "The sabbath rest is in NT but it would be very hard for you to understand..." First, understand what? Second, I did not say the sabbath rest was not in the NT, but the question was posing as a commandment to keep the Sabbath Holy. If there was a clear command to keep it holy, would it be legalistic to do so?
thesangster 10 months ago
@VESANG PT2....You said: "We can't bully people with the sabbath unless we want to be condemned for braking it as well."
Well as a Christian, you are not suppose to "bully" anyone. So if you are addressing bullies, you're have to address these particular individuals, and tell them, that I believe bullying is wrong no matter what faith you belong to. I have broken the Sabbath many times. I believe forgiveness and enpowering to keep God's law is available only through Christ. HOWEVER.....
thesangster 10 months ago
@VESANG PT3... However, it is dangerous to teach that it doesn't matter anymore. Let me give you an example, if person #1 believes that adultry is no longer a sin because we're not under the law but under grace, and person #2 says, it is sin. Now both 1 and 2 has commited adultry, however, only one of them would know to repent from it. This is the danger. People that believes the keeping of Sabbath in the NT era is legalistic, vs the other Sabbatarians are in a different place, both break it..
thesangster 10 months ago
@VESANG PT4...but only one, like me, can repent and be cleansed from it. My job now is to preach the Word to prove to those that believes its legalistic, that it isn't true, and they can repent from that, and move on to another battle of faith in their walk of sanctification. I undestand that sanctification is a process, and part of that process, God raise up preachers of truth, to give people the opportunity to grow with present truth. I hope this helps. God bless. Stan
thesangster 10 months ago
@thesangster Thank you Stan! I know you are sincere! To bring your point back and hopefully we learn all together.Here is the dilema IMO
Do you think the Pharisees kept the sabbath? Do you think they kept the whole law in general.
You said "i have broken the Sabbath many times.." Thank you for being honest!
Do you keep everything EGW sais?
Here is how it look on the outside:We say people have to keep the law and EGW but we don't do it ourselves. So how do we solve that dilema?
VESANG 9 months ago
@VESANG Pt 1 You asked "Do you think the Pharisees kept the sabbath?"
No they didn't.
You asked again "Do you think they kept the whole law in general?"
No they didn't
You asked "Do you keep everything EGW sais?"
No I haven't.
You asked, "Here is how it look on the outside:We say people have to keep the law and EGW but we don't do it ourselves. So how do we solve that dilema?"
We don't say that people have to keep the law, Jesus says this(Jn 14:15). Look at Gal 2:20,...
thesangster 9 months ago
@thesangster Pt 2 Gal 2:20 shows how Paul had this same dilema also."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I,but Christ liveth in me:n the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God..." Wn Gideon won the war with 300 men against thousands,who won the war?God or Gideon and his army of 300? Look at Judges 7:2 God made it that way so they can recognize its really Him that is able to give you victory over your battles, whether its with sin or war.
thesangster 9 months ago
@thesangster Pt 3, Look the issue is not whether I have kept it perfectly or not, the issue is, just because you haven't done it yet, or have known anyone that has done it, does that automatically make it impossible? Just because no one prior to Christ has ever walked on water, does that mean it is impossible? I bet you if I asked you is it possible to walk on water you would say yes, but with faith in Christ. Okay, what's the difference?Think about that.Impossible things are possible with God.
thesangster 9 months ago
@thesangster Pt 4 stop focussing too much on Ellen White.Her role in my life is for Present Truth. God did not have just one prophet to live under till the end of time. Even though the Israelites had the writings of Moses,God still raised prophets during times when present truth was needed. Ellen White was a vessel for God to speak to me in more details for present events.The message of John the Baptist of "behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world was pointing to Christ...
thesangster 9 months ago
@thesangster Pt 5... Death" Which was for His time, now we look back to it in faith, while John was pointing towards the near future in faith. Different message, for different times. Today we point forward to the 2nd Coming of Christ. Amen? Not the same message of Daniel, of Jeremiah, of John the Baptist. Present truth is very important, but if you're not convicted by her writings, fine, but we don't have to quote her, I can stick to the scriptures alone to support our fundementals. God bless
thesangster 9 months ago
@thesangster If you want to believe in EGW this is between you and God! You can learn from everybody including the Pope if you want to learn in general. On your Q about the sabbath in NT...If we keep it as the Pharisees did than...it would be NT legalism.Braking one commandment we brake the sabbath as well.The OT law was not only the 10 com,it included sacrifices .If we look for them for our perfection we are doomed.10com are accusers,faith in Jesus is the perfection and the Sabbath rest in NT
VESANG 9 months ago
@VESANG " PT 1You stated "You can learn from everybody including the Pope if you want to learn in general." We can, which is the same as learning from Pharaoh and from Moses in general, however God raised up Moses not Pharaoh.
"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."(Amos 3:7).
The Kings of Israel understood that, that is why they had prophets with them. That is why King Saul looked to prophets for answers. That is God's M.O. cont....
thesangster 9 months ago
@thesangster PT 2You stated: "On your Q about the sabbath in NT...If we keep it as the Pharisees did than...it would be NT legalism." You asked me sometime ago did the Pharisees keep the Sabbath, I said No. However, you said, "if we keep it as the Pharisees did..." , what do you mean? I said "NO". They did not keep it. There was only ONE that kept it. That was Jesus Christ. So my question was not answered yet. If there is a commandment in N.T. (this is AFTER THE DEATH OF CHRIST, not BEFORE.)...
thesangster 9 months ago
@thesangster PT3 If there is a commandment in the N.T. by the apostles to keep the 7th day Sabbath Holy, would that be legalism? It seems like a very simple question, and for some reason, it seems like a lot of people have a very difficult time answering. We see in the Ten Commandment a clear command about the Sabbath, if it was as clear in the NT, after Christs death on the cross, would that be considered legalism if Christians keep it today?
thesangster 9 months ago
@thesangster Pt4, when I see keep it, I mean the way Christ kept it. I hope we all can agree that Christ kept the sabbath perfectly. Since Christ has never sinned, and sin is to transgress the law. Christ never transgressed the law. So if we are commanded to keep the Sabbath the way Christ kept the 7th day Sabbath, since we are followers of Christ, would that be legalism?
thesangster 9 months ago
@thesangster Hi Stan! Good point! How did Jesus keep the Sabbath?
What makes you think that you&me keep the sabbath any different than the Pharisees since you&i acknowledge that we brake it?
I answered your Q in the last post. There is a sabbath rest and you enter it trough faith in Jesus Heb4:2,3,6.Paul said it 1000+ times that we are short to the law and it was just a shadow but the body is Christ Col2:16,17.The law was given to accuse us in sin Gal3:19,22.SDA never went past this point!
VESANG 9 months ago
@VESANG No you have answered my Q, again you stated "There is a sabbath rest", that is not the same as an explicit command that says "remember to keep the Sabbath Holy". Can you at least see my point in that? If you do, again, if there was a clear command to keep the Sabbath day Holy AS WAS IN THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, would that be legalism? I hope you really understand the question this time. God bless,
Stan
thesangster 9 months ago
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@thesangster * you have NOT answered my question, is what I meant to say. I apologize.
thesangster 9 months ago
@VESANG "What makes you think that you&me keep the sabbath any different than the Pharisees since you&i acknowledge that we brake it?"My question is what you think we would not know how to keep it just because we break it?When Jesus told the adulturous woman,Go and sin no more, would He tell us to do something that we don't understand how to do it? Would God gives us laws that we don't understand? You wouldn't know how to love your neighbor if you have broken that already?C'mon, not strong.
thesangster 9 months ago
@thesangster Hi Stan! Trying to keep track and understand your Sabbath Q. I thought we wanted to discuss it in the context of the Bible. Please correct me if i did not understand you but you asked me if Sabbath was clear commandment in NT would it be legalistic to keep it ? I answered that there is clear Sabbath com in NT.Would it be legalistic if God tells you to give your son as sacrifice against his own 10 com. We can try to imagine all kind's of things...would you help,what's your point ?
VESANG 9 months ago
@VESANG Thank you, now I know that you're attempting to answer my question. You said you answered it before, however you kept saying, there is a Sabbath rest in the NT, which is not the same. Now you said, There is a clear com in NT, (I don't believe so), but you do accept that point. Now would that be legalistic to keep it? You didn't answer that directly, however you respond by using another hypothetical, which I find to be interesting...
thesangster 9 months ago
@VESANG ... because although I was being hypothetical, you pretty much claimed that it isn't hypothetical upon your views that the Sabbath command is in the NT. So your hypothetical statement to support your sub statement that "We can try to imagine all kind's of things". Is irrelevant because you believe in a NT sabbath commandment. Now since you do believe its in the NT, is it legalistic to keep it?
thesangster 9 months ago
@VESANG... Let me respond to your hypothetical refutation, "Would it be legalistic if God tells you to give your son as sacrifice against his own 10 com."
My answer is, NO, it would not be legalistic. In fact it is NEVER legalistic to obey the Lord.
You stated "...would you help,what's your point?" SDA n other Sabbath keeping Christians r accused for being legalistic just because of looking to be obedient to God's commands.The NT is permeated with commands to obey, n that's not legalism.
thesangster 9 months ago
@thesangster I see your point.Many times people disagree because they put different meaning in the same words.To understand each other better i believe we have to define what legalism is first. I definitely differ from your statement " NO, it would not be legalistic. In fact it is NEVER legalistic to obey the Lord." IMO you can believe even in Jesus legalistically,how much easier to keep the sabbath as the Pharisees and think that you obey the Lord ! So what is legalism IYO?
VESANG 9 months ago
@VESANG So what is legalism IYO? I don't want to give my opinion, but this is says in Dictionary website
"Legalism: a : the doctrine that salvation is gained through good works; b: the judging of conduct in terms of adherence to precise laws."
thesangster 9 months ago
@thesangster Thank you Stan! At least this definition gives us some foundation. I hope we can agree now that it is not the specific commandment .It is the attitude,not the precise action that makes the performance legalistic. We can do right things with wrong motives.We can even believe in Jesus legalistically Mat7:22
So from the very beginning your Q had two answers.Even if the Sabbath "like you said was in the NT" it depends on the motives /like in OT/ if it's legalistic or not to keep it!
VESANG 9 months ago
@VESANG I agree with you 100%. It is the motive. So when people are saying SDAs doctrine is legalistic is a strawman fallacy. Our motive is not that we do good works for salvation; however, saved people do good works. What we(SDAs) are debating is that all that are claiming to be saved find it okay to break some laws, and say that they are saved. This is not what saved people do. If we go against this theology, now we're legalistic. Do you think that is fair?
thesangster 9 months ago
@thesangster If you let me add,legalism is in everyone of us.Christians do good and bad things, sometimes with good motives many times with motives we are unwilling to acknowledge.I agree that somebody trying to establish Sunday as God's day of worship proclaims him self legalist right there on the spot!The main product of legalism is holding somebody else accountable to a standard you never apply to yourself !SDA is not different.We blame Catholics for the same things we do point by point! Love
VESANG 9 months ago
@thesangster Typical example of legalism would be the bail out of one of the reaches people and banks in the world. If you and i fail to make our payment according to the law they will kick us out of the house and they will claim that this is the right thing to do! But when they are in financial trouble they will go all the way against the law taking money from you&me so they can keep what they have and even add extra bonuses for themselves. Sadly Religion is no different !
VESANG 9 months ago
@VESANG Yes, I agree, however lets not forget that God is for religion as long as it is pure and true.(James 1:26, 27 KJV) The Scriptures support religion, but God's religion. I don'[t mean to be critical but lately I notice a rise against religion in general by Christians, when they say that "Christianity is not a religion; religion is man made." That isn't true, so I have made it a habit to show that God accepts pure religion which cannot be created by man, only by God, therefore God if 4 it.
thesangster 9 months ago
@thesangster The NT is a lot different than the OT.Heb goes point by point to explain it but since the SDA has sidetracked us to think only trough the eyes of EGW and the GC it is hard to reverse that attitude and take again the Bible as the authority to explain.Why do you need book of 28 SDA believes /which is 50% more than the entire NT/?Answer :To make you follow a "human god" once again.
Love fulfills the law incl the Sabbath.Tons of verses on this but for SDA it doesn't matter !
VESANG 9 months ago
@VESANG This is a post hoc fallacy, and I will not address it until we get past the first issue.
thesangster 9 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian No I cannot do all things. Christ Can do all things, and through Christ, He can enable me to do all things. Even live a perfect life without sin, however, that is contengent on my faith in His Power. No one is able to walk on water, but with Christ you can because Peter did, and he did not do it perfectly not because it wasn't available for him to,but because of his unbelief.And Christ asked him why did he doubt.HE placed the responsibility on Peter for not using the power.
thesangster 10 months ago
@thesangster Pt 2...So if Christt is keeping you from falling,does that mean that YOU take credit for it No, so you can't boast. You have sinful flesh, you cannot do it,and if you do it that means God is clearly getting glorified because that is a miracle. To live a life without sin is a miracle. It is impossible, but with God all things are possible. This is all scripture, and I knew this message from reading the bible long before I became a SDA, this is why I was amazed,I thought I was alone.
thesangster 10 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian
Pt 1
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. (Gal 2:20)
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. Phil 4:13
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous - 1 jn 2:1
thesangster 10 months ago
@thesangster Pt 2 Is it possible to sin while being in No, However, is it possible to get out of Christ to sin, YES. Have I sinned, yes, Have I broken the 10C? Yes. That is what sin is.(1 john 3:4) We have all sinned, and come short of the glory.(Rom 2). Am I double talking? No, do you think I'm double talking? Obviously, YES. I am clear, but you cannot see it. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned, I hope your praying before your read and type. Don't let the carnal interpret.
thesangster 10 months ago
@thesangster Pt 3. Just because I have sinned, and I have asked for forgiveness, and believe that I am cleansed by the blood of Christ through faith, and made a decision to follow him fully, doesn't mean I'm legalistic. Just because I believe to "love my neighbor as myself" as Christ commanded me to do, doesn't mean I'm legalistic. Just because I believe to love God with all my heart, mind, and soul, which includes keeping the day He made holy in Creation for US and HiM to share, doesn't mean.
thesangster 10 months ago
@thesangster Pt 4... Cont. .. doesn't mean I'm legalistic. We have to becareful about that.
Let me ask you a question. If there were a clear commandment that says, "Remember to keep the Sabbath day Holy" in the New Testament, would you keep it?
If Yes, does that make you legalistic?
Think about this question carefully before answering.
Thank you, God bless.
Stan
thesangster 10 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian Q:Only the times I commited a sin, I was classified a sinner, however when I came to the throne of Grace(heb 4:16), I went to my Mediator(heb 8:6) in faith, and He cleansed me from ALL unrighteousness(1 jn 1:9), and by faith,I am not a sinner while I'm in Christ.But if I backaway from that protection, and I commit a sin, then I would be a sinner,and Christ is still there waiting for me to come back(1 jn 2:1). A just man falleth down seven times, and get up again(Prv 24:16).
thesangster 10 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian The word "cult" is subjective. The Christians were also considered cults also, and yet you are a Christian. So the wrong faith can call the right faith cults, and this is a sign of the persecution in the last days. So keep it coming.
Now Q 1: Yes; Q 2: Well this question is a Y and N, and needs further study. Q3: No, this is not our position. There is nothing we can do to be saved, it is a gift of Christ. Cont....
thesangster 10 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian Let me get this clear, you don't believe as a Christian, that you are to obey Christ? Because if you obey Christ, that is work, do you agree with that? If you disobey Christ then that is not work, do you believe that Christian are not to have works in their life at all? Why can't the Holy Spirit gives us ability to keep the Sabbath and everything we are to keep as Christian?, why is this mere human effort to you?
thesangster 10 months ago
@thesangster Pt 2... If a job is offerred to me by a friend, I accept the job. I did nothing to earn that job, I can't boast about anything, especially because I was qualified for that position. Now that I have that position, there are tasks for me to perform because I have it. Now if I do my task, the task that I do doesn't get me the job, but it confirms that I have the job. I can say with confidence that I am a (desired occupation) because that is what I do. Cont...
thesangster 10 months ago
@thesangster Pt 3... I did not do anything to get the job(salvation), I took it trusting in my friend (faith in Christ) that I have the job(I am saved). Now I have a new boss (I have a new Lord). Christ said, why do you call me Lord if you do not do the things that I say?(Luke 6:46) By that statement there is an expectation that Christ expect His followers to DO. What ever they are, they are works, and Greater works shall he do, says Christ(john 14:12.) Not to be saved. Cont...
thesangster 10 months ago
@thesangster Pt 4... Let me give you some more scripture, If you claim that you know Him(have a relationship with Christ) and don't keep His commandments, you are a liar(1 John 2:4), Matthew 7:21 says" Not everyone that says Lord Lord, will enter into the kingdom, but those do DOES THE WILL of my father."
So who are we really against? When we say we can't keep it even while we have a relationship? These are liars according to Christ, and liars will be cast into the lake of fire.
thesangster 10 months ago
@thesangster *wasn't qualified for that position. I apologize for the error.
thesangster 10 months ago
GODS COMMANDS ARE TO BE KEPT BUT THEY ARE NOT KEPT BY US NOR ARE THEY HELD BY FLESHLY ABILITY!!! EXAMPLE : WE ARE TO BE BORN AGAIN BY THE SPIRIT ! WHY? BECAUSE IT IS BY THE SPIRIT WE WALK AND THE COMMANDS ARE KEPT BY THIS POWER OR CHANGE: THE NEW BIRTH IS THAT YOU DIE TO FLESH WILL FOR SPIRIT! GODS LAW IS SPIRIT NOT FLESH! NOW THE COMMANDS ARE DEEPER THEN FLESH KEEPING: JESUS EXPLAINS : AS HE GOES THROUGH THEM AND ADDS"" BUT I SAY" TAKING THE COMMANDS TO THE HEART! SO DO NOT DISREGARD GODS LA
frenchis19 10 months ago
In the BIBLE it states that everyone will be judge according 2 His Works Rev 20 10 The devil, who deceived them,...... 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were JUDGED ACCORDING to THEIR WORKS, by the things which were written in the books. 13 "...And they were judged, EACH 1 ACCORDING to HIS WORKS. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian I had a feeling you had pre-responese, you just copy and past.
sr1215cl 10 months ago
I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”
- JESUS (Matthew 18:1-4)
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
we have a sin debt resulting from Adams breaking a command of god. That law doesnt exist now for the tree isn`t around any more. Law was added later but our sinful nature was formed at that point. No laws are required for us to be sinners. God created a nation to represent him on earth then The Written code was added . Col 2:14 clearly states the cancelling of the written code (10 commandments written by god) and its regulations(ceremonial) nailing them to the cross.
damted 10 months ago
Look up Revelation 12:17 New International Version (©1984)
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus. New Living Translation (©2007)
And the dragon was angry at the woman and declared war against the rest of her children--all who keep God's commandments and maintain their testimony for Jesus. [18] Then the dragon took his stand on the shore beside the sea.
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
Today, for us as SDAs who believe in the perpetuity of the law, it’s important. The righteousness that saves us, sinners need covering us like a garment, is a righteousness that has been made manifest “without the lawIt’s the righteousness of Jesus, the righteousness of His life, the righteousness that brings us “the redemption that is Christ Jesus.” The redemption is in Him, it is found in Him, not in ourselves or in our law-keeping, and this redemption becomes ours by faith.
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
Gal 3:24,25 the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified faith. Now that faith has come , we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
To go back under the law is to ignore Christs sacrifice.
damted 10 months ago
@damted ceremonial laws were nailed to the cross not the 10 Commandments plus read the last chapter of the Bible the people standing outside the gates of Heaven are people who have transgress against God Laws. Love and Peace we can do all things through Christ who strengths us and nothing is impossible with Him. If you say you can not sin that is saying the devil (who created sin) is more powerful then our Creator.
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
Remember in the bible when it says the devil fooled the whole world that is why people think the SDA is a cult the SDA teaches according to the Bible including Ellen G White she goes according to the Bible nothing different. If you don't care about how you treat your body, your creator, your neighbors then then how do you expect God to view you as being a Christian. Please read the Holy Bible and go to amazingfacts website to get the facts. Love
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
@VandeVoorts8587...
See SDA Cult or Christian Part 1
ExEGW 11 months ago
@ExEGW The dragon that is mention is the devil Rev 20:2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand yearsThe whore is the church that cheated on Jesus by listening to the devil rather than Jesus. Most of the time women in the Bible is a symbol of the church u continue on reading the Bible will explain itself Rev is not figurative speech but is a revealing of what is yet to come the title of the pope Vicarus Fili Dei in RMN numeral is 666
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
Worry about what your church teaches? no no no...worry about what the WORD of God teaches ALL OF IT!!
ThePsalm40 11 months ago
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God loves us so much He gave His Son, not to condemn, but to save. Whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life Glory of the gospel! Jesus took our place Gift of God This is true for u, long as u don’t reject it Light has come into the world, but men love the darkness instead of the light bc there deeds were evil. Evil hates the light & will not come to the light, for fear there deeds will be exposed. So my friends come to the light! Believing Receiving same thing
game11221 11 months ago
@ThoughtTraveler
The forth commandment is no longer relevant.
ExEGW 11 months ago
@ExEGW But the others are? Why not the Fourth?
VandeVoorts8587 11 months ago
@ExEGW Please becareful not to grieve the Holy Spirit and harden your heart to God because if you do not have the Holy Spirit living in you you will not be ready for the day of redemption. Jesus said if you love Me keep My commandments 1-4 teaches how to love God 5-10 teaches how to love your neighbor in the last chapter of the bible it says who will be in the gates of heaven which will be the people who were doers of the word and not just hearers which means God Commandments
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
I wonder if Doug realises that he is part of the reason why many people think we are a cult
brendos444 1 year ago
@brendos444 I think Doug is sincere person but as many of us we have no idea how ease is for people to manipulate us into a cult.We are so naive and this is exactly what IMO satan uses to take us off focus which is to love one another and do to others what we want them do to us.Now we argue about cults when cult is inside of everyone of us.We are all sinners! We argue about EGW like she is the founder of Christianity or something...when she needs the forgiveness of Jesus as we do BIG TIME!
VESANG 1 year ago
I totally agree with you on the need to love each other. that is the only duty for a Christian. the problem is that you have ppl like Doug, EGW etc focusing on micromanaging our lives on issues where the Bible is either silent or is ambiguous. eg the health message. Where in the Bible do the disciples incorporate a health message and proclaim vegetarianism? It is always insinuated in SDA circles that they are better than everyone cos they have the health message. They judge ppl on these issues.
brendos444 1 year ago
@brendos444
Yes SDAs are superior to other Christans because they have the whole truth
PreparetomeetthyGod 11 months ago
@PreparetomeetthyGod It's this kind of prideful attitude that may impair your readiness "tomeetthyGod". No church has the whole truth. No church should suppose that it is superior to all others. Finally, salvation is ultimately an individual thing. Belonging to any organization can't save you in the end. if you keep on believing that you are superior, you put yourself in danger. you sound like the pharisee in Luke 18. I'd rather be like the tax collector.
brendos444 11 months ago
@brendos444 I will not say that SDA is superior however; look at the facts of what SDA stands for they are all about the lifestyle of being Christian Ask yourself did Jesus eat pork, did he keep the Sabbath on the first day of the week, did he fancy apparel, and the list can go on and on. The SDA does have the truth of Jesus testimony however just because you are an SDA does not mean you get a VIP ticket to Heaven
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
@oyefollowerofJesus What you say about Jesus is true. But diet is a secondary issue to the gospel. Often SDAs raise secondary issues above the level that scripture gives them often at the expense of primary doctrines like grace etc. When a denomination does this, they are in error.
brendos444 10 months ago
@brendos444 Remember Jesus Healed people that is part of ministry. If we do not watch what we eat or treat our bodies how will we be able to teach the good news to people on our death bed. I have seen alot of people die from not taking proper care of their body remember our body is our temple. From what I have seen Pastor Doug does not carry a I am better than you approach he always say pray for him that he makes it as well as yourself and always read the Bible don't take his word but Jesus word
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
@brendos444 there is not a first or second it is an overall once you accept Jesus in the way that you are he will help you and guide you to clean up. I wish that we can see through the eyes of God he would probably be disappointed that we are having disagreement in regards to what he has written Pastor Doug did not write the Bible God did and he blessed certain people with the gifts of prophecy which God said he will in his last dies there are many prophets out in the last days. Bible explains
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
@oyefollowerofJesus Doug did not write the Bible, he interprets it and often he is incorrect. The Holy Spirit wrote the Bible through inspiring human beings. We are to study the scriptures ourselves and receive help from the HS to gain understanding. there are some things that Christians can disagree on. But the important things are plain. Doug often gets dogmatic about secondary things
brendos444 10 months ago
@brendos444 Another thing is that sometimes he just gets the Bible narrative wrong because he read EGW. For eg in his women minister sermon, he said that Eve left Adam's side when she was tempted. This is not what the bible says. It says that Adam was with her! His version of the story comes from EGW. Also in his end times series dvd, he says that Satan appeared as an angel of light to Jesus when he was tempted in the wilderness. But the Bible doesn't say this. EGW does tho. Sola Scriptura pls!!
brendos444 10 months ago
@brendos444 Doug is not dogmatic in anyway he always refer to himself that he is a veggie however you can still eat clean meat and things of that nature however you have to go according to the scriptures in regards to what anyone says and you right Doug & EGW did not write the Bible they just interprets it that is all people are afraid of what Jesus said to do People should not be made at SDA becuz they didnt write the Bible God did If you ever in doubt do what Jesus did which includes dieting
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
btw, i'm not talking about all SDAs. And I agree that everyone including doug and EGW need our forgiveness. What i'm talking about are teachings that obscure the gospel and Jesus' command that we love one another. One of the surest signs of man-made religion are excessive rules, usually trivial ones like vegetarianism, that are elevated far above the importance that scripture places on them. The pharisees did this. I think the SDAs used to do this, certainly conservatives still do this
brendos444 1 year ago
@brend
There is no doubt that some Adventists r very legalistic, just like I've ran into some crazy Baptists who their families are within a "Patriarchal" system, where the kids have to marry who the father decides. But vegetarianism? Yikes, that is not a trivial rule. Even if religion did not exist, I'd be pushing for vegetarianism, as the science is OVERWHELMING now...categorically DECIDED those who live such a lifestyle, they will live longer! And feel better! I've been a vegan for 18 years!
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@Lysimachus78 I know that vegetarianism is good for you, but what has that got to do with the gospel? When did Christ or the apostles make a big deal about diet?
brendos444 1 year ago
@brendos444 Here is what diet has to do with the Gospel.First you have to believe in EGW which automatically requires you to believe in the SDA church as the only true church of God and become a member of it,then you have to believe everything that SDA teaches in order to remain saved and there it comes that if you are not vegetarian at the end times you will be lost.How is that?Doesn't it sound like the gospel to you? I can't believe you can't see the connection!
You caught me being sarcastic
VESANG 1 year ago
@VESANG this is absolutely false you do not have to be a veggie to be saved according to SDA. They teach that you will be healthier however not a matter of being saved. In the beginning Adam and Eve were veggies and when we prayerfully go to heaven we will be veggies as well we will not have a Burger King or Wendy's up there please visit amazingfacts website to get the facts. The devil just does not like the truth at all to be exposed. love
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
@oyefollowerofJesus I appreciate your love attitude my brother! Your logic is right and tells you that salvation has nothing to do with being veggie. Not so with EGW. It seems to me that you are not familiar with her writings but i can understand.Usually SDA members know very few things about her and SDA church history. You said "SDA teaches according to the Bible including Ellen G White ".I wish it was truth! Please watch here on youtube "SDA the spirit behind" and see for yourself.Love
VESANG 10 months ago
@VESANG I am fully aware of the history of the church and her teaches if you an SDA member you are pretty much into the word of the Bible God talked about pouring His Spirit on women and men who will prophesies. You will know a false prophet by them speak of biblical truths. Ellen G. White does that and at the time of 1844 when most thought Jesus was coming back the corrected their wrongs by studying the scriptures and had a true revival so that people can go back to pleasing God. Love
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
@oyefollowerofJesus I actually think that the SDA health message is a form of the prosperity gospel - the healthy, wealthy and wise gospel. It takes away and distorts the true gospel message that we are saved by grace thru faith in Jesus apart from our works. Of course a real faith is one that LEADS to good works, but our salvation is not BECAUSE of our good works.
brendos444 10 months ago
@brendos444 I think you'll find that with a lot of Doug's presentations, there is pride lurking underneath. This "i'm better than you" attitude creeps in and sometimes rears its head in his sermons. He delivered a disgraceful sermon on women in ministry not long ago. You can agree with his position, but the way he delivered the message was shocking. Full of sarcastic remarks and derogatory comments. It was shameful.
brendos444 10 months ago
@brendos444 And the thing about Doug is that he seems to be above reproach. These independent ministries are a law unto themselves. They don't heed the reproach of the church. I've even heard Doug say that he has no loyalty to the SDA church. He is a law unto himself. This is not biblical. Who then has the authority to rebuke him? No one it seems, for he thinks that his interpretation of scripture is right and if you don't agree with him, u must be totally wrong.
brendos444 10 months ago
@brendos444 SDA is concern for other people that is why at fellowship meals they usually do not supply meat becuz alot of people with high cholesterol and etc should not eat meat becuz they are killing themselves Health is part of ministry or Jesus would not of healed people it is a reason why God said to eat certain meats becuz you are what you eat. the whole Eve & Adam why did the serpent only speak to Eve then if Adam was with her & the Bible does not say that he was or only that he ate too
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
@brendos444 Pastor Doug help me to get closer to the truth not all people who hear Jesus truth will accept even the Bible talks about how people will view you strange once accepting the truth. Remember the Pharisees called Jesus the devil when he was performing miracles. Remember the devil was to stomp out the truth he came to deceive the whole world even the very elect tell me this what church group is follow the Bible as close as the SDA who and where and I will check it out.
oyefollowerofJesus 10 months ago
Which one of you brave courageous Sabbath haters want to say that the 10 Commandments are evil and done away with?
Which one of you brave Commandment haters want to promote and teach that the 10 Commandments are bad and should be rejected?
Any takers?
Anyone want to here on You Tube promote the idea that the 4th Commandment is evil?
ThoughtTraveler 1 year ago
Matthew11;15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
amazingfactsDOTorg
Then goto "Free Stuff" ---->"Bible Studies"----->" Study Guides"
StMaule 1 year ago
If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
2 Cor 3:9-11
sketchbook1 1 year ago
Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 2 Cor 3:7-8
sketchbook1 1 year ago
Ever notice that when he seems to quote from the bible (Like ACTS) or HEBREWS chapter 8 verse 1 & 2 that he physically points at his bible but never turns any pages this guy has X-RAY VISION!
JSeely218 1 year ago
@boomya555....Have YOU read all of ELLEN G WHITES Writings?????
doneodone 1 year ago
Talk bout ELLEN G WHITES false prophesies she is the founder of this church..truly don't look to the internet for source nah!!! look to the writings of ELLEN G WHITE and we are sure to find answers...tell me I lie!!! boom bang bing!!
doneodone 1 year ago
What about Micheal and the erroneous blasphemous beliefs about him?
zodice1 1 year ago
about that soy meat wagon... it had product brand names that were sold exclusively for the church, much like the book publishing company they own and sell ppl in Dr. offices, i filled out a card in a dental office and got a freaky scary men knocking on my door... i did not tell them i wanted a home visit... this man saw i was a woman alone and was afraid, so he went and got an elder to try to pound my door down with him and intimidate me to answer...
Littlezombie 1 year ago
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rcc prelate confesses worshiping the "image" #
DopoNotte
1 hour ago
@spywareboss
Do you not realize that all of creation is holy? Yet then why do you hate the world? Why do you hate your neighbor? Why do you hate the Image? SEE FOLKS how serious beast worship is doponotte actually thinks the image is holy but be are not to worship the beast or its image..
spywareboss 1 year ago
pastor, pastor pastor, the problem here is with my church, (seventh day adventist)
that even if I accept the death of christ for my sins and I believe that through faith, and all that, .....But if I do not accept the teachings of Helen White, you wont baptize me!
I really think that our church has a big problem..
PAPASUCHO 1 year ago