I loved listening to this. It's so hard to find info on Somaliland, despite it being a really interesting place. I'm also a big fan of Peter Tatchell. Thanks for posting this.
I don`t really believe the people in somaliland really want to leave Somalia, they want autonomous state of Somalia but the loud mouths are using peoples names in vain and parading them in gay parades.
qabiil is a disease but those that claim to be enlightened and progressive seem to be the the fiercest qabiilist of them all I cez this a somali case of hypocrisy of democracy for they want to create a democrasy in a qabiil fiefdom.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
ps: "somaliland" has little or no press freedom, a week ago a female journalist was abused and physically man-handled by a member of the somaliland government just because she wanted to report on a certain case.
somaliland FORBIDS internally displaced people from the south from building any homes and treat them as though they where foriegners
as this rate i think i prefere somaliland's seccesion, they dont deserve to be part of nation who is ethnically neutral, soverign and united.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
when he said "and the SNM liberated somaliland from somalia", i lost hope in this guys intellectual ability to speak about history.
the SNM didnt liberate anything, and certainly not with the intension of "liberating from somalia" but to stop the opression of a dictator who was ruining the entire nation. it was the somali people in xamar with their bravery and courage who "liberated" the people in somaliland from his rain of terror.
if somaliland needs 2 be recognised..heres a good tip..change the name..u r still carrying the name somalia...how can there be a two somalia government...call urself something else like djbouti did
This guy is well knwon HOMOSEXUAL Activist. I really feel sorry for my ppl going this far, To get recognition do we hav to visit homosexuals to pls the west , pathetic.
@Abris09 you have 2 face da reality, the program is about Somaliland sucess which is true. There is nothing 2 do about Tatchels sexuality in dis prog. That is not our busniess.
If u come from the Ogaden region, then u must hold their right to self determination and right to self gov'nt rather highly. I hope they win in their fight against the Ethiopians.
Somalis that reside in the Ogaden (majority) region want to separate from the Ethiopians -who were given a land that was not theirs.... but I don't want to go depth with this topic
but its right to self deter. and right to sellf gov'nt that the ogaden are fighting for. Who are the ethiopian's to take this right away? ANd the same can be said for S.land. THe ppl there made the decision in a fair and free election.
And there was someone here who criticised the somalis who were being interviewed for goin on a 'anti-islamist's show... well the same person then called Barre, a man who encouraged atheism and even went so far as to execute 10 Islamic Sheikhs in 1975, a great leader. LOLS
no... i was just calling out this guy who made previous statements that didnt actually go w/ what he was saying. He said Barre was a great guy and i was all like well if he was justify the loss of life in the North and South during his regime.
nah its cool. i was just calling it like i saw it. I did my research in order to make a decision about where i stand, so not tribalistic. Sorry if it came off that way.
but Somalia has always been ripped apart by clans. which breifly stopped in when Barre was in power b4 he began favoring his own clans. Although that last point can be countered by the fact that the coup was a collusion b/w Marjeerteen and Hawiye politicians for Darood and Hawiye power sharing. This isnt unity b/c a number of grps/ tribes were left out of the equation, such as the Isaaq &the Bantu (but they never had power 2begin w/)
Does the current gov'nt help? No just warlods vying for power
Yet, S.land has had relative success and even more so when compared to Somalia. It is the most democratic state in the horn of africa and maybe Africa (although I think S.Africa takes that spot but u can see where im going w/this).
Somali politics and clans are two things that go hand in hand and will continue to play a large factor for a long time (if it ever ends which is doubtful)
In Somalia its effect has been rather horrible considering the cycle of clan cleasings of the Darod and Hawiye
"Somali politics and clans are two things that go hand in hand and will continue to play a large factor for a long time (if it ever ends which is doubtful) "
WASN'T I saying this the whole time??
Well I think it shouldn't and as long as clans vs. clans is on the table then Somalis shouldn't expect much change!
Collective origin? If ur refering to the Arab influence in almost all Somali clans (over 80% of the popu.) then yes. But there is something misleading about that statement b/c nearly all clans (Darod and Isaaq) have named their clans after their founding father i.e Shiekh Darod and Prophet Isaaq. I have no idea whats up w/ the Hawiye. The Bantu are consider not somali.
Is FGM not un-islamic? Yet many somalis continue to practice it. What is ur point that b/c something is sinful, ppl wont do it? U have to understand that no one trusts another tribe to get into power w/ favoring their own and screwing over everyone else.
I did imply that Somalia (before it broke down and all Somali regions) are homogenous w/ the statement that Somali clans (not bantu or arab) make up over 80% of the popu.
exactly. so why argue for S.land to be brought back into that? U said it urself, clans will always criple somalia but S.land has done fairly well so far. Why ruin it?
My mother is Isaaq and she does not want Somalia to separate And I never knew what clan she came from (until I asked out curiosity) b/c She didn't think it was important...
She taught me my culture and most importantly
like I said to be concerned about being a good person and caring only what ALLAH thinks of you
it doesnt matter wat my beliefs rwhen i have facts 2back it up.
S.land's decision to seperate was a demonstration of 2 intern. conventions/laws. The 1st right 2 self determination & the other is right to self gov'nt.
I would hate to think that b/c u dont agree w/ the ones who chose to seperate, u would disregard and advocate that these rights be ignored.
U havent even said anything substantial about Y S.land shouldnt seperate.
A somali is a somali &an arab is an arab? what does that prove?
regardless of whether u agree w/ the seperation, there are procedures that need to be taken when a region intends to seperate from a recognized country. The first would be engaging in negotiations but since Somalia at the time had no stable gov'nt, an announcement was sufficient. The second step would be to hold a referendum which S.land did, w/ around 97% for seperation in 2001 (i think thats the year, or somewhere around it).
We didnt seperate b/c of clans but b/c of a number of contributing factors into the decision to declare indepdence. THe most important of which, in my opinion, would have to be the declaration of a president and executive committee w/o the consent of the North.
so true. Clans will remain a big part of somali politics, it serves as an identity 4many.
But the hawiye i think meant well (despite their greedy ambitions 4 leadership), u see the person they admired most was a human rights activist Dr. Ismail Jumale, who was rather well known in Somalia &from the abgal clan &so the thinking was thatif they selected someone from that clan then the problems will b solved (the implication here is rathermurky considering that i dont understand the connection).
Many felt this was a slap in the face considerin that much of the fightin (80's &early 90's) had taken place in the north & 2 not include them in the decision making process (4who got in2 wat position, and havin another pres. w/o voting, etc) was seen as a disregard 4the struggle &sacrafice. Also, theannouncement about president (abgalsubclan) &executive committee resulted in Aidid's lack of support 4the regime, among other grps (i.e SNM, SPM, etc), led 2fears about being drawn in2 another war.
In addition, in Feburary from the 15th to the 27th, elders/representatives of all tribes met up to review the union. Then there was another meeting in May which resulted in the Burco declaration. But before this, there came reconcilation b/w the tribes such as Issaq w/ the Gadabursi and Dhulbante.
It must be noted that the SNM grp could have easily destroyed the weaker tribes (weaker in terms of resources such as weapons) but chose not 2b/c the fact that many tribes are intermarried, Dhulbante had offered support during the war, Gadabursi and Issaq are 'ethnically related', etc. In addition, there was further talks held in the regions of Sool and Sanaag where senior Dhulbante and Warsengeli elders repeated their support 4the declaration of indep. &political arrangements in Borama in 1993.
i copied and pasted these msgs (i posted them b4)to give u some info about what was going on b4 secession.
I assume the 'crap' ur refering to is that fact that north and south were not as similar as u claim (at least in terms of those factors i mentioned) and there were problems w/ the union whether u agree or not.
if u cant agree on a leader b/c of what clan he comes from then there's an implication of an underlying racism.
Racism isnt used just to describe the belief that one race is better than another. It can be used for culture, religion and in this case tribes. The belief that someone shouldnt hold a high position b/c of the grp they belong to-whatever the reason- implies that they (collectively) are unworthy and too inferior despite the qualifications they may or may not have and that the other grp will no matter their skill, always be suited for that position. U get it?
buddy, u can look it up. Racism isnt just about one race being better than another, it can be used for situations where one claims that one culture is better than another. Look my prof actually gave that def. so im going by his words and NOT urs.
heres a web def. of it:refers to beliefs &practices that assume inherent and significant differences exist between the genetics of various groups of human beings; that assume these differences can be measured on a scale of "superior" to "inferior";
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Fool. Discrimination is racism in action go look it up.
And why do u think their are clans b/c they differ in terms of their origins and hence genetics (heredity, variation etc). Ur implying that all Somalis are related, They are not. Seriously go look it up. There's no point in arguing over facts.
umm what do u think Islamophobia is? Its a form of racism that is directed towards islam and the ppl who practice it.
"I assume the 'crap' ur refering to is that fact that north and south were not as similar as u claim (at least in terms of those factors i mentioned) and there were problems w/ the union whether u agree or not. "-
WHAT TERMS--- you are still talking about clans
ethic Somalis are the same ok
even the bantu Somalis - have taken our culture (only difference -their origin)
I don't know much about the bantu that's it
LIKE i said please tell me how are religion, traditions, and race are different?
ok im assuming u dont noe what im refering to but i was simply talking about why the amalgamation didnt work. Its not clans I was talking about the systems unless ur referring to that info i provide about clans.
The culture itself isnt all that different if u remove the adminis. effects of the colonialist. But how does this prove that S.land shouldnt be its own state? THe union didnt work so they got out of the deal. A deal that north hadnt completely agreedsince they rejected the constit. 4it
I dont think this will end and this problem was aggravated during Barre's rule and it wont be ending any time soon.
whatever u stance, S.land did follow procedure when it seperated and this cannot be disregarded. The state has made great strides w/ little aid (due to not being recognized except from the diaspora) and I think that speaks for itself
This makes the seperation legit. in terms of politics but the recognition has been slow b/c S.land and SOmalia both claim to have ties to the land.
Actually, when the north and south did unite there were problems that had to due w/ the amalgamation process when it came to official languages (Eng, Ital), legal systems (4 traditions-brit, ital, islamic, somali law), diff. administrative systems, police forces, taxes, currencies, education systems etc.
Whether u hold these factors as highly or not, they did have an effect. So much so that w/i a year of uniting, there was an attempted coup by northern militia to restore our previous autonomy.
So since Saudi Arabia and Arab Emeriates are close in culture and language should they be one country? Not necessarily. This is a decision that the ppl of those regions need to make for themselves.
we differ in origin and there are minor differences in terms of customs, etc. But how does this prove that unity works? Or that S.land shouldnt be its own country.
Besides ur points about culture and S.land can easily be rebut w/ the Dijubuti who also chose not to unite. Its the ppl who decide and w/ over 90% for secession, its pretty clear what they want.
and what are u trying to prove that b/c we're similar we should all be one happy country. That didnt turn out so well considering that 3 genocides were committed during the union.
I suppose that since a number of arab countries are similar, then they should all be one state by default? No that hardly makes any sense. For one thing its the ppl who have to decide and S.landers have spoken
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
LOLS. U really dont noe ur politics. First off what are the attributes of a state? 1. has a stable popu 2. territory 3. sover (control over popu and recog)
Somalia doesnt have a stable popu, nor control over it but it does have territory.
S.land has a stable popu, its own territory (it has controlled it fairly well), it has control over its popu. but no recog.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Stop acting like u noe what ur talkin about, i'm studying politics and if u did noe this u wouldnt be posting that nonsense about culture (which is really the only point u've made so far).
Not commenting anymore b/c it's like going in circles I'm just sad YOUR PRIDE is getting to your head Somaliland and Somalia WOW so different two differnet ethnic people different culture religion Wow. It's like night and day. What I'm saying is SOMALIA needs to fix this clan issue before it could go anywhere Pride is DESTROYING Somalia Did you know about "Puntland" and "Somaliland" tribal fighting? The land can't even be divided without WAR breaking out? Seriously this is what Somalia is
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
but why should they join? Is that all u have b/c their similar? Are u advocating for taking the away the right of the ppl of S.land to make that decision for themselves?
Somalia will never be able to fix the clan issue. Clans are something thats been a part of all somali regions for several hundred years and yet u expect it to change? Seems rather foolish to me
While Somalia has been associated w/ chaos and violence, S.land has been the complete opposite and has had relative peace.
The fighting that ur refering to happened a year ago and the issues have largely been resolved.
A # of academics &politicians support my belief that S.land should be recognized such as anthropologist &professor IM Lewis (who has way more knowledge than u &me), Lord Avebury, Kerry McCarthy, etc. All who noe more than u & r unbiased.
Likewise this decision has been made by S.land thru a referendum in which over 90% voted for secession. It seems rather foolish to bring up an issue that has been decided by the ppl.
to be honest whenever, i encounter others they tend to get rather offensive or claim as one other person did recently to not read my msgs b/c they're too long.
This leader later went on to guide Somalia into a war with Ethiopia, committed economic discrimination and clan-cleansing,etc. His rule consisted of intimidation and terror, indiscriminant killings and the loss of life of hundreds of thousands. Barre played a large role in where SOmalia is now. A great leader? No.
There was an idiot who claimed that former dictator, Siad Barre, was a great leader. Firstly, he was not a legitimate leader nor did he lead a legit. gov'nt. This was due to the fact he was not voted in by the Somali citizens nor was his gov'nt. He became president thru a coup after the death of Pres. Sharmarke. He dissolved the 1960 constitution, he formed a totalitarian rule and outlawed any other parties except his own. Yep, a great leader who couldnt stand the thought of competition.
Anyways good luck with your dreams! Lool! If you guys want to atleast separate couldnt you guys come up with a different name other than Somali-land! Perhaps Isaaqland would do much better because thats what you guys are fighting for.
One more thing Mohamed Said Barre is the greatest Somali hero and to compare to him Hitler shows your ignorance and your disrepect to everything that is Somali! Like I say "Are we better off than we were 20 years ago". Most rationale humans would say No!
Somaliland???? Is that the best u got??? Making fun of our country and the Issaqs? I suppose when we named it Somaliland we were trying to back to our roots from when we were ruled by Britain. Or maybe we just wanted to pretend we hadnt united with the murders in the south. u know trying to forget wat had been done to us by the barre regime and how he had his soldiers line up our men and shot them one by one. or the fact that100's were kidnapped and never seen again. wow u've reached a new low
My ignorance? This is the guy who stole assests from my family (similar to hitler's policies towards the jews), his actions taken against the nomadic population were another similarity to hitler's treatment of the jews where he had his men tamper with the supplies of the people (cattle, water etc) b4 leading a bombing campaign against them.
Yes...these certainly are the qualities of a great leader who favored his own and f-ed up everyone else. The comparison is based on research about genocides
Disrespect u say? His policies almost got my dad killed and ended up taken the lives of my cousin who was only a child, and countless others.
We'll when u ask the question r we better off than we were 20 y/a, well i'm pretty sure ive answered this b4 and maybe u forgot (or chose to ignore)but the south isnt better off (well 2 yrs ago it was when the Islamic courts took over -im not talking about their policie but the peace they brought) but the north has been quite successful since seperation
so why should we let the south brings us into chaos. Look @ the fightin man! just look any person with an ounce of commonsense would realize why we dont want to be tied down to that anymore. too many lives were lost.
Barre in short was a racist and war criminal and in the eyes of the world -not u- that makes him a horrible person who turned against his own and hence the comparison with hitler.
lols. if u dont believe me y dont u look it up & make up ur mind. its all written& then we cna talk
Its no use talking to u, so instead im telling u go research it. B/c if u haven't (which has clearly been demonstrated by ur lack of knowledge of international relations, disregard for H/R violations, and blatant hatred for S.land- illustrated by u -ignorantly calling it issaqland and displaying little respect to its loss of life and oppressing faced by the Barre regime).
U might reply back that u dont hate s.land but ur thinly veiled racist attacks says differently. Stop making it about the clans and make about whats best for the people. U said that somalia isnt any better than it was 20 yrs ago, perhaps seperation will change this.
Lastly, have u considered that under Barre's regime 2 clans called for independence and his response was not to change his policies nor to consult the two clans but to destroy them. His reasons were very much similar to urs, he called them anti-somali or something along those lines. Clearly, history supports my claim that this wasnt a great man but instead one who ruled through force. Perhaps, if he tried to kill ur family off for no substantial reason u would feel the same.
Take the arguements you said and apply it to Quebec and Scotland. You find that they have more of a legitimate case for independence from their respective states. Now what makes you think the world is going to recognize Somaliland? By law if a country wants to separate it must have consultation with the country it is separating from thats a fact!
To suggest I or non-Isaaqs are behind the so called genocide, quite frankly highlights your true colors and your motives.
Really? Did Quebec face a genocide? no in fact they have been favored throughout the last half of the century. But there is one valid point with Quebec, a judge (i cant remember which court it was) that they, if a certain percent (50 i beleive)voted for seperation then they should recieve it. This is the rule of self determin. where the ppl decide how and who will govern them. This is a law &jsut bcit doesnt agree w/ur views dont go making new ones up...or at least tell me where u got them
Well I never called out innocent people who had nothing to do with it. I never even put u in the category of these people so stop trying to play the victim b/c no one pointed any fingers at u. If u go over my posts u'd see that i have tried to back up everything i've said with research and unfortuantely, the genocide took the form of north vs. south division. I mentioned a few who were responsible and who even today, have lead normal lives despite the thousands killed.
We both know who was behind it. And who was behind the Hawiye genocide and the marjeerteen genocide. All im saying is if we can't talk about anything without u getting all defensive and saying things like u think i did it??? That's not the issue here. Yes there were non-isaaqs behind the killings but instead acknowledging this, u say it 'highlights [my] true colours and motives' wow... another strike against u. Go do ur research, seriously just go to an academic library and borrow some books.
I could take that very same argument and turn it around and say that 'ur animosity torwards S.land demonstrates -or in ur words- highlights ur true colurs and ur motives.' Lols. Trying to play ur self as an academic but u kinda failed when u started making up laws and when u said i didnt understand them. Whats so hard to get about them? seriously thats a weak argument and if u actually consulted the laws u would realize this to.
in addition the last part of ur message is pretty laughable considering u support a war criminal.
Yea... u really dont have malevolent feelings towards S.Land even though u call the guy who tried to destroy it a great guy... yep no feelings of hate or envy wat so ever.
Another hole in ur argument is the fact that quebec and anglophone canada we're colonized by two different countries. Quite similar to Italien Somaliland and British SOmaliland.
Your arguement is based on Bosnia. Loool! Bye you are done! Bosnia separated becaused they proved they are a different people with different religion and history! What's your argument? Hmm Somaliland ought to separate because we are Isaaq! So your arguement for separation is based on Qabiil. It just shows this fallacy called Somaliland is based on Qabiil and nothing else.
Lols. I wasnt talking about the culture. Tell me wat prompted this seperation?????The war and ethnic cleansing.
I never based my reasons on our ethnicity i based it on the fact that we were oppressed. The fallacy??? Fool the fallacy is in thinking that somalia is actually a state, oh lemme correct that: failed state.
No, the reason why I am not going to debate you is because we are not going nowhere with this. We can agree to disagree! Although I believe my points I have stated earlier are valid. Secondly, I have more constructive things to do than argue with an individual who wont answer my simple questions. It seems you have not really fully comprehended international law and how it applies. Good luck with your dreams and keep trying to convince the world with your lies. Like I said people are not stupid!
No. You just havent given me any good reasons about why we should unite. In fact, you like to pretend that my reasons are invalid despite consultation with intern. law. Wow... so it really is true.
List out ur questions and ill get to them after my exams are done ill even cite them using book i found that talks about the history of all this.
What lies bro? The fact that Barre tried to oppress us by only investing in the south and then when he realized that we werent happy..he tried 2 kill us?
list out ur simple questions then cuz i thought i answered them and why dont u answer mine???
u think i dont have things to do? I'm to show u another p.o.v based on research that i have done over the last year and u based not on logic or reason said it was wrong???? give me ur reasons and i mean real reasons instead of u just ranting.
O btw, have u noticed i haven't said anything remotely negative (despite H/R violations about any tribes) so plz as an elder, act ur age.
I dont understand international law now that is funny coming from the guy who complete labelled a law as a lie or invalid. LOLS :). Now thats funny. Right to self determination, human rights violations which we're disregarded by u as lies, and ur saying i dont understand international law? right, well when im citing intern. laws they're either invalid or i dont understand them. Glad we got that figured out.
Just b/c u dont agree, doesnt mean wat i say was wrong.
Based on ur opinions (not facts b/c its not based on law or conventions), if we apply the same logic to Bosnia's independence,they shouldn't be recognized &that in order to obtain this recognition, they need to get the former Yugoslavia's permission?!
Look, I have cited laws and have explained why the Issaq are not a part of Somalia.
Everything ive stated is valid according to international law and last time I checked, somaliland's soveriegnty had nothing to do with u. Why dont u, instead of listening to propoganda b/c thats what it is when u call the mastermind of 3 genocides a great guy.
Stop trying to act like ur not biased at least I've used facts to back up my arguments all u've done is ranted and raved. I guess if the south isnt happy then the north can't be, eh? Lols. stop trying to act like ur being rational,at least i've done my research, u probably just listened to everything u heard from ur clan about how bad somaliland is. And yet u guys fail to acknowledge the refugees we take in from the south. We did the whole united thing and all it resulted in were lives lost.
Your disregard for the laws that support Somaliland's soveriegnty prove that nothing has changed. There are certain people who believe they are above the law and ur so called 'great'president siad barre was one of them. Of course he made the laws and he targeted tribes in order to strengthen his own.
Nothing has changed the fighting in the south still continues while the north has lead a peaceful existence.
Its fine that u think my points aren't strong enough. But to call the laws ive cited not good enough proves that u, like barre, think u are above the law or that ur reasons are better than others.
so tell me supablackman why should we join up with Somalia? Oh and btw the whole bit about asking permission is stupid.
Not one person has acknowledged the wrongdoings committed by the siad barre and until that happens and those monsters -the masterminds (Barre' son in law being one of them)- are brought to just stop talkin about unity
Fine, if u won't respond to my questions. I have no choice but to assume that you cannot defend ur stance.
1st off, the laws that i have listed for u may not support ur views but they are fair and u must respect them. let me repeat that: just b/c international laws/conventions do not favor ur beleifs, it does not make it invalid. You are not above the law and neither is are masterminds.
Your lack of respect for justice and the law demonstrates an eerie similarity to Barre's regime. Nothing has changed, there are certain people who refuse to acknowledge they are wrong and they carry on thinking that the lives lost during the time Somalia was united mean nothing. Somaliland will not make that mistake again. I'm not being racist or clanist, its just that history tends to repeat itself.
This can be seen by the cycles of ethnic cleansing that have occured again and again in the south. Stop trying to bring S.land down. We don't need the south and their chaos.
The only condition I believe Somaliland can separate is in consultation with the rest of Somalia. Until then sorry to spill the truth, Somaliland will not separate that is a hard reality. There are more countries who have a more legitimate claim in seeking sovereignty than Somaliland. Im sorry you cannot keeping using the notion we have the right to self determination, it just doesnt cut it and thats the reality. Are somalilanders a different race and have different religion than the rest?
I went over my posting limit. I have given my reasons to you. Look it up everything i've brought is valid. U might not agree with it but the decision has nothing to do with the south.
What about the Bosnia? They recieved their soveriegnty after a war & ethnic cleansing.
tell me is it based on carefully crafted research or ur opinion. Somalia is a- repeat after me- failed state with no claim or authority over S.land.
Well tell me this, if we're so different from the south, why were we killed off and labelled as unsomali/anti-somali. U guys were toting this whole difference thing before why the change? besides why should we fork over our independence, peace, prosperity (in comparison to somalia)? b/c we speak the same language, practice the same religion?
Well, that's not good enough. The two somalilands uniting were a test that failed. Have u heard of the saying, 'fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me.'Well there aint gonna b a second time, no matter how similar u claim us to be.
My friend I am using historical facts unlike you who is using proproganda from die hard successionists. I have a legitimate question for you- tell me what is your premise for separation from Somalia based on? No crap like we have the right self determination because that shit does not fly. If it did Quebec and Scotland would have separated! Is your claim based on you guys are a different race, different religion, different culture because quite frankly that is more a convincing arguement!
I am using historical facts. Stop denying the significance of the genocide. The so-called right to self determination is one of the international conventions set out by the UN. This is just another example of Somalians who, for the sake of unity, will kill thousands. U r not above the law so stop defiling it.Quebec and Scotland are not the right examples as they haven't been oppressed (for the last century) why not use Ukraine as an example and their plight against the Soviets? the Nazis?
Look it up my friend, I'm in Uni. and whenever I say something I make sure to back it up. And I have using international laws and conventions. I dont want to repeat myself.
Somaliland has had movements for independence since the early 80's and taken that into account we have been seperated from the south far longer than we've been together. And b/c of that seperation we've managed to clean up the mess left by the war.
The whole different culture can be rebutted with the fact that we've been colonized by two different countries. Also, one could ask what about Djibouti? They are also somali and have been colonized by France.
Moreover, one could point to the fact that Rwanda and Burundi which both have similar culture (Hutus, etc). To force them to join together would be unthinkable. Somaliland has been independent for nearly twenty years where as the south has been in chaos for the same amount.
I am sure that the whole House will wish to send its sympathy to the people of Somaliland following the recent suicide bombings that disrupted the peace and development of democratic institutions which had continued for the past 18 years.
When our right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary visited Cardiff recently, he met leaders of the Somali community. I was particularly proud of the young Somali women from Fitzalan high school and the young Somali men from Butetown and Grangetown who said that they wanted to help build links back into the Somaliland community.
Will Ministers encourage the diaspora to become involved particularly in work with schools in Somaliland, and will my hon. Friend join me in considering the possibility of internet links to help build pupil-to-pupil and teacher-to-teacher contacts between us and Somaliland?
Somaliland has to keep distinguishing itself from Somalia . Somaliland also must be vigilant and double its efforts to prevent the importation of the failed and deadly southern political culture into Somaliland . Those cowards can't harm strong Somaliland. Somalilanders love their country and they know these un-islmic terrorists. Long live Somaliland !
So you I guess you are going to blame Darood for the explosions that happened in Hargeysa? On that note why dont you blame Darood's for the earthquakes in China and the famine in Africa. LOL! The fact of the matter is you cozied up to people who destroyed their own homes in the hopes they could sympathize with your scandolous and vile behaviour. As a result, unfortunately you learned your lesson. Somaliland is not immune to what happens to the rest of Somalia. I know its hard to swallow! :)
If you go over his message... he doesn't actually call out any tribes. Everything he stated was a fact: the porous borders that S.land shares with south allowed this to happen. You need to stop being so defensive.
Ur last sentence is really offensive. 1st off ur assuming we r a part of somalia. We r not, we have our own government, own policies and we speak differently. Hows that for a cultural difference??? U might not like our independ., but u have not said anything substantial about unity
arent da ISAAQ people, the people dat once claimed 2 be related to isreal people..ceeb wallahi...if u people r runnin away from being somali y do u still carry da name somali wit u i wonder...u dnt wanna be called somali and yet u still call urselves..wierd people wallahi..FUK DEMOCRACY..SHARIA LAW 4 LIFE..AL-SHABAAB IS COMIN 2 HARGESA..AND WE SHALL MAKE U MUSLIM AGAIN..
my friend isaaq and somaliland people are nothing to do with isreal peopl... your problem is you just jelous about your own people. somaliland is country in horn of africa. it has own preseident currency and armay... and is democradic country... unlike the rest of somalia you talking about who every day kill each other like animals... zoomalia... hate or love it somaliland is here to stay..
Look we don't expect you to support us but at least acknowledge the mistakes of the last regime (which could really be tied to a south vs north conflict).
supablackman, you're the biggest actor and the most ignorant. Look up the history of Italian Somaliland and British Somaliland. Think before you say something.
Think before I say something? I dont get it, I am thinking and spelling out the facts. Do you understand what I am saying? I will not condemn Mohamed Said barre's legacy as a man who brought prominence, peace and stability to Somalia. For which this point I make shows that Mohamed Said Barre was a great man because of the current status quo. Are we better off than we were 25 years ago as a nation? I guess not! Thus Mohammed Said Barre was a great man. Unitl I am proven wrong I remain right!
Look i'm sorry if I went a little over board. But Barre had conducted a Nazi-like genocide against rival tribes. This is not what great people do. Moreover, the he played a big role in turning clans against each other and that problem can still be found in the south.
It depends on what area that you're talking about when you say that we are'nt better than we were 25 years ago. Somaliland has managed to rebuild Hargiesa after it was destroyed. The Ogaden are, from what i've read, are facing an ethnic cleansing by the ethiopian gov'nt. Somalia still remains a failed state.
He was part of Barre's administration? On that point isnt he and Riyaale guilty? I guess Dick Cheaney and Condi Rice were not responsible for the invasion of Iraq based on your logic.
I can see your point but I've been looking into it and haven't been able to conform anything. Unlike with other government officials, there haven't been any accusations that I've I heard of. So I just want a reliable source to confirm your claims.
The whole dick cheaney and condi example supporting the Iraq war can be rebutted with the point that Colin Powell didn't really support the war but was unable to do anything about it because the Bush and the remainder of his adminstration were against him. Moreover, they kind of screwed him over by not including him in major decisions.
The whole Silanyo thing and comparing it to the Dick CHeney and Condi thing doesnt really hold up when one considers that back then in SOMALIA, if u openly went against the government, u were taken away (prison or death). Ur assuming this was a democratic state with freedom of speech. it was not.
A lot of ppl spoke out against Barre and they all disappeared. This is the guy who ruled Somalia much like Hitler ruled Nazi Germany. Still think he's great?
Besides, Silanyo never made the decision to go after the other tribes, that was Barre. DOnt go deflecting the blame somewhere else (I've explained my reasons why above).
Abdikhadar with regards to the issues everything these individuals are saying is so incomplete that there is no point in arguing? This is the same reason why the State Department and the world was not convinced about your claims because they are all lies.I just love how you guys play the victim card, its "us" and "them". Who is them the rest of Somalia? The ones who you go around the world denigrating as savages? Saxiib, you guys need a an Oscar wallahi you are all actors lool and bad ones too.
What are you talking about? Do your research before you open your mouth. It is a widely accepted fact that the Siad Barre regime destroyed the former British Protectorate.
The Isaaq were not the only victims of Barre, the Hawiye and Marjeerteen were as well.
And to be honest, things haven't changed, there's still ethnic cleansing going on in the south as well as the problem with war lords.
Abdikhadir what is so invalid about my point?Is it too hard for you to comprehend that Peter Tatchell is an Anti-Islam homosexual fear monger who equates Islam with fascism. It seems you can not accept that reality. Or maybe according to you its okay for Tatchell to denigrate Islam so long as he supports Somaliland. What a Hypocrite! It shows how far the successionists will go to further their scandolous agenda. Yuck!
supablackman..talk about the issue not thatchel who is afreind of somaliland..stop wasting your time on s/land...it is sad how you are trying to go in to religiuos lines in order to make an inavalid point..somaliland exist with or with you
If my fellow Somalians knew Peter Tatchell's anti-Islam stance they would distance themselves from him. Then again it just shows you that how far the successionists will go to push their agenda even if it means selling out their religion to a man who is known to equate Islam with Fascism. Do your research on the man and you will find out what I mean.
The fact that these carpet baggers demean other fellow somalians as savages and barbarians just to push the scandalous propoganda of "Isaacland" is just disgusting and a disturbing.Lol it really startles me the filth and lies that are spewing out of these individuals and how this poor white man is so gullible to their filth. I wonder why this filth doesnt sell well among policy makers and academics across the world!
Hey supablackman, id just like to point out that under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights the rights of the Issaq were violated under articles 5, 7, 9, 17, and there were some other articles but they were questionable.
I guess on that pretext only Isaaq's human rights were only violated? What about the rights of other Somali's whose right's were violated as well? I guess its only Isaaq's human rights that matter! Wow you guys just proven how lame your arguements are. You know world leaders are not stupid and they know their history as well. You guys have to come up with a better arguement because honestly this whole Isaaqland thing wont sell.
I never said that the Issaq's rights were worth more than any other tribe. I have tried to explain to based on internation laws the violation of their human rights. I have implied the same thing in other messages if you recall, i spoke about the Marjeerteen and Hawiye ethnic cleansing. Where are u getting ur info???? bc according to intern. law we have the right to self determination.
Who are these world leaders and is that the best u can come up with? Moreover, if u look up the requirements for a country to be considered a soveriegn de jure (Somaliland is Soveriegn de facto), we have 1. a stable population, unlike the south. 2. we have a strong government, unfortunately, the south does not. 3. we have our own area THAT IS SEPERATE FROM THE SOUTH.
Now i dont think u noe the history but prior to colonialism, somalia didnt exist. In africa there were no such thing as a counrty just villages for the most part. The British colonized somaliland and it was known as the British protectorate. In 1960 italian somaliland (south) and british and i think u noe the rest.
I find really offensive when u make statements that imply that the Issaq massacre-like the other ethnic cleansings were & are not important when it comes to Somalia unity.
Thousands of lives were lost. Secondly, Be realistic. U have a weak government in the south and a strong one in the north. Also, I've read articles basically saying that the North after the Barre was defeated wanted to rejoin with the south and we waited for the fighting to stop and it never did. Thats why there are a few in between the end of the war and our declaration of independence. We were tired of all the fighting.
terrible sound, i'm outta here.
serappia 6 months ago
No Somaliland true ,All the people in live Hon Afric dream is one Neation one people for Somalia
muhis96 8 months ago
HAAAAAY HATERS.....SOMALILAND IS HERE TO STAY SO WHAT ARE GOING TO ABOUT IT? HA....ANSWER PLEASE..
OK, I WILL TELL U....NOTHING.. U CAN DO NOTHING.
SO KEEP HATING WHILE MUUQ DISHO IS BURNING AND UR POEPLE ARA DIEING......WALLAAHI I FEEL SORY 4 U GUYS...
FORGET ABOUT SOMALILAND & GET A LIFE... SITTING BEHIND A COMPUTER AND HATING ON SOMALILAND IS NOT GONNA HELP U...
IIDOORLAND,ISAAQLAND,BLA BLA BLA BLA
TELL U WHAT....MA IDIIN SOO DIRAA 2 ODAY OO IDIIN TALIYA?ODAY LA'AAN BAA IDIN HAYSATEE?
fadhiyare 1 year ago
Wow, what an achievement, to have a homosexual man be the person to speak for a doomed cause, I have to take my hat off to the Idoor people.
Reqrezentin 1 year ago
fuck somaliland send this arse bandit there see how long he lasts
peppersdog1 1 year ago
I loved listening to this. It's so hard to find info on Somaliland, despite it being a really interesting place. I'm also a big fan of Peter Tatchell. Thanks for posting this.
wid85 1 year ago
Long live Somaliland
nimcocali 2 years ago
PEOPLE!
there was never a union its called Re-unification of former Somali territories.
Somalia ,Somali people,somali history and Somali time line did not start with the coming of the British, it existed before
if awdal Sool, Sanaag and Cayn aint there: unpack the bags honey we ain't going no where .
Qaf01 2 years ago
speak like a man, NOT like a,,,,,,,,,! somaliland not somalia loooool
nice words
god bless somaliland
DIBJIR1 2 years ago
@Qaf01
SSC is Harti, you aren't even in control of it you stupid idoor.
Reqrezentin 1 year ago
I don`t really believe the people in somaliland really want to leave Somalia, they want autonomous state of Somalia but the loud mouths are using peoples names in vain and parading them in gay parades.
qabiil is a disease but those that claim to be enlightened and progressive seem to be the the fiercest qabiilist of them all I cez this a somali case of hypocrisy of democracy for they want to create a democrasy in a qabiil fiefdom.
Qaf01 2 years ago
Comment removed
londoner50 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
ps: "somaliland" has little or no press freedom, a week ago a female journalist was abused and physically man-handled by a member of the somaliland government just because she wanted to report on a certain case.
somaliland FORBIDS internally displaced people from the south from building any homes and treat them as though they where foriegners
as this rate i think i prefere somaliland's seccesion, they dont deserve to be part of nation who is ethnically neutral, soverign and united.
RedSeaCoral 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
when he said "and the SNM liberated somaliland from somalia", i lost hope in this guys intellectual ability to speak about history.
the SNM didnt liberate anything, and certainly not with the intension of "liberating from somalia" but to stop the opression of a dictator who was ruining the entire nation. it was the somali people in xamar with their bravery and courage who "liberated" the people in somaliland from his rain of terror.
this guy knows NOTHING at all.
RedSeaCoral 2 years ago
if somaliland needs 2 be recognised..heres a good tip..change the name..u r still carrying the name somalia...how can there be a two somalia government...call urself something else like djbouti did
StraightouttaSomalia 2 years ago
Comment removed
madheedhle 2 years ago
Comment removed
madheedhle 2 years ago
Abris09 , TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE NOT PETER TATCHELL . SOMALILAND EXISTED BEFORE TATCHELL.
jislboy 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Peter Tatchell is just a loser GAY who luckily wont reproduce and thus his gens will disappear...
BemTeCorava 2 years ago
This guy is well knwon HOMOSEXUAL Activist. I really feel sorry for my ppl going this far, To get recognition do we hav to visit homosexuals to pls the west , pathetic.
Abris09 2 years ago
@Abris09 you have 2 face da reality, the program is about Somaliland sucess which is true. There is nothing 2 do about Tatchels sexuality in dis prog. That is not our busniess.
Somalioz2020 8 months ago
u wel never be recognized by no one so keep on dreaming... u are to small of a peopel and a country to be recognizes......... dumass people
fuad3601 3 years ago
Look obviously we don't see eye to eye
I'm not going to debate forever..
I am Muslim and Somali that's it
I come from Ogaden region, Hargeysa and Mogadishu
Odd mix
I am part of the Isaaq, Hawiye and Darod clans
and I don't care b/c I'm just Somali.....
AS my Mother tells me be concerned about the type of person you will be and don't let your PRIDE get the best of you.
8720Musse 3 years ago
If u come from the Ogaden region, then u must hold their right to self determination and right to self gov'nt rather highly. I hope they win in their fight against the Ethiopians.
amyro89 3 years ago
Somalia separating and Ogaden region separating
are different issues....
Somalis that reside in the Ogaden (majority) region want to separate from the Ethiopians -who were given a land that was not theirs.... but I don't want to go depth with this topic
And yes I hope they win too
8720Musse 3 years ago
but its right to self deter. and right to sellf gov'nt that the ogaden are fighting for. Who are the ethiopian's to take this right away? ANd the same can be said for S.land. THe ppl there made the decision in a fair and free election.
amyro89 3 years ago
And there was someone here who criticised the somalis who were being interviewed for goin on a 'anti-islamist's show... well the same person then called Barre, a man who encouraged atheism and even went so far as to execute 10 Islamic Sheikhs in 1975, a great leader. LOLS
amyro89 3 years ago
Can ask you a question?
Are you tribalistic?
Not trying to upset you...just curious.
Do think that all of people of the south are disgusting killers and that the north is the 'GOOD GUY'?
just curious.....
8720Musse 3 years ago
no... i was just calling out this guy who made previous statements that didnt actually go w/ what he was saying. He said Barre was a great guy and i was all like well if he was justify the loss of life in the North and South during his regime.
nah its cool. i was just calling it like i saw it. I did my research in order to make a decision about where i stand, so not tribalistic. Sorry if it came off that way.
amyro89 3 years ago
Ok I see your point
I know that Barre was a corrupt leader
I just hate that Somalia is being ripped apart
due to clans
Something that is haram
Feeling superior when they're not
I guess being the SAME People doesn't unite Somalis
but I agree with you that the government in that regime wasn't helping Somalia's state of affairs
8720Musse 3 years ago
but Somalia has always been ripped apart by clans. which breifly stopped in when Barre was in power b4 he began favoring his own clans. Although that last point can be countered by the fact that the coup was a collusion b/w Marjeerteen and Hawiye politicians for Darood and Hawiye power sharing. This isnt unity b/c a number of grps/ tribes were left out of the equation, such as the Isaaq &the Bantu (but they never had power 2begin w/)
Does the current gov'nt help? No just warlods vying for power
amyro89 3 years ago
See exactly Somalia has always been ripped apart by clans....So why use this system- To know where we came from- We have collective origin...
This is why a Somali government can never work with this clan system.....
8720Musse 3 years ago
Yet, S.land has had relative success and even more so when compared to Somalia. It is the most democratic state in the horn of africa and maybe Africa (although I think S.Africa takes that spot but u can see where im going w/this).
Somali politics and clans are two things that go hand in hand and will continue to play a large factor for a long time (if it ever ends which is doubtful)
In Somalia its effect has been rather horrible considering the cycle of clan cleasings of the Darod and Hawiye
amyro89 3 years ago
"Somali politics and clans are two things that go hand in hand and will continue to play a large factor for a long time (if it ever ends which is doubtful) "
WASN'T I saying this the whole time??
Well I think it shouldn't and as long as clans vs. clans is on the table then Somalis shouldn't expect much change!
8720Musse 3 years ago
Collective origin? If ur refering to the Arab influence in almost all Somali clans (over 80% of the popu.) then yes. But there is something misleading about that statement b/c nearly all clans (Darod and Isaaq) have named their clans after their founding father i.e Shiekh Darod and Prophet Isaaq. I have no idea whats up w/ the Hawiye. The Bantu are consider not somali.
Isnt that interesting?
amyro89 3 years ago
Arab influence? - Of course their is an arab influence
but Somalis are their own people
Our you Muslim???
B/c if you are you will see how un-islamic clans system is..
and So we are not related by DNA
Well Science says otherwise
Did you know Somalis are homogeneous
I guess Science is a lier
This proves to me that you are tribalistic
8720Musse 3 years ago
Is FGM not un-islamic? Yet many somalis continue to practice it. What is ur point that b/c something is sinful, ppl wont do it? U have to understand that no one trusts another tribe to get into power w/ favoring their own and screwing over everyone else.
I did imply that Somalia (before it broke down and all Somali regions) are homogenous w/ the statement that Somali clans (not bantu or arab) make up over 80% of the popu.
how am i tribalistic and how is snc a liar?
amyro89 3 years ago
Yes this clans system is haram and I didn't say
that muslims don't do it
What I am saying it's wrong and we shouldn't do it...
There is a lot things people do that they shouldn't
um i think you misunderstood my statement
I was referring to the 80% or even more
Ethnic Somalis
we are the most homogenous country in Africa
and What I was stating before was NOT even that will unite us
Yet you seem to think ethnic Somalis are different.
8720Musse 3 years ago
So just b/c its haram, doesnt necessarily mean that ppl wont do it.
I said we had diff. origins (such as our founding fathers) but that somali clans make up over 80 % of popu. Hence homogenos
amyro89 3 years ago
Like you said your proving what I was stating....
Clans don't trust other clans
b/c they feel they are "GOOD ONES" and SUPERIOR
It's club A against club B
and this will ALWAYS CRIBLE Somalia
8720Musse 3 years ago
exactly. so why argue for S.land to be brought back into that? U said it urself, clans will always criple somalia but S.land has done fairly well so far. Why ruin it?
amyro89 3 years ago
I suspect you are a "Somalilander"
who grew up with this CLANS NOTION
I just suspect.....
My mother is Isaaq and she does not want Somalia to separate And I never knew what clan she came from (until I asked out curiosity) b/c She didn't think it was important...
She taught me my culture and most importantly
like I said to be concerned about being a good person and caring only what ALLAH thinks of you
not to think you are better than anyone
A SOMALI IS A SOMALI IS A SOMALI
8720Musse 3 years ago
it doesnt matter wat my beliefs rwhen i have facts 2back it up.
S.land's decision to seperate was a demonstration of 2 intern. conventions/laws. The 1st right 2 self determination & the other is right to self gov'nt.
I would hate to think that b/c u dont agree w/ the ones who chose to seperate, u would disregard and advocate that these rights be ignored.
U havent even said anything substantial about Y S.land shouldnt seperate.
A somali is a somali &an arab is an arab? what does that prove?
amyro89 3 years ago
Also I wanted to ask you do you want Somalia to unite
or separate into little countries.
One major reason that Somaliland wants to separate is b/c of the tribal fighting.
I have heard of many "Somalilanders" and "Somalis" talking about each other as if to THINK they are SEPARATE People
When in fact we are the SAME
-language, culture, religion, ethnic
I don't know it makes me laugh.....
I'm not saying this is about you.....but i have encountered this.....
8720Musse 3 years ago
regardless of whether u agree w/ the seperation, there are procedures that need to be taken when a region intends to seperate from a recognized country. The first would be engaging in negotiations but since Somalia at the time had no stable gov'nt, an announcement was sufficient. The second step would be to hold a referendum which S.land did, w/ around 97% for seperation in 2001 (i think thats the year, or somewhere around it).
amyro89 3 years ago
What is this SOUTH VS. NORTH crap??
I know Somalia's problems are deep and complicated
but I'm SORRY the reason why we are separated is b/c of clans.... Simply
We can't agree on leader b/c one group does not like a certain clan....etc...
it sickens me
and the government of Barre was corrupt
b/c he killed people of different clans
I'm a Muslim first and don't hold this stupid TRIBAL CRAP
8720Musse 3 years ago
There is no North vs South crap.
We didnt seperate b/c of clans but b/c of a number of contributing factors into the decision to declare indepdence. THe most important of which, in my opinion, would have to be the declaration of a president and executive committee w/o the consent of the North.
amyro89 3 years ago
This is referring to North vs. South
Clans vs. Clans----
You just stated that "CONSENT OF THE NORTH"
Which just proves to me there is a problem with that.
I feel that everyone in Somalia north south east west
should DECIDE the presidency. What happened to the North was wrong!!
Why did the Government (or people of the South) exclude the North from deciding?
Do you know the history behind that? Could it be b/c of clans vs. clans crap?
I find it disgusting that even happened to the north....
8720Musse 3 years ago
so true. Clans will remain a big part of somali politics, it serves as an identity 4many.
But the hawiye i think meant well (despite their greedy ambitions 4 leadership), u see the person they admired most was a human rights activist Dr. Ismail Jumale, who was rather well known in Somalia &from the abgal clan &so the thinking was thatif they selected someone from that clan then the problems will b solved (the implication here is rathermurky considering that i dont understand the connection).
amyro89 3 years ago
Many felt this was a slap in the face considerin that much of the fightin (80's &early 90's) had taken place in the north & 2 not include them in the decision making process (4who got in2 wat position, and havin another pres. w/o voting, etc) was seen as a disregard 4the struggle &sacrafice. Also, theannouncement about president (abgalsubclan) &executive committee resulted in Aidid's lack of support 4the regime, among other grps (i.e SNM, SPM, etc), led 2fears about being drawn in2 another war.
amyro89 3 years ago
In addition, in Feburary from the 15th to the 27th, elders/representatives of all tribes met up to review the union. Then there was another meeting in May which resulted in the Burco declaration. But before this, there came reconcilation b/w the tribes such as Issaq w/ the Gadabursi and Dhulbante.
amyro89 3 years ago
It must be noted that the SNM grp could have easily destroyed the weaker tribes (weaker in terms of resources such as weapons) but chose not 2b/c the fact that many tribes are intermarried, Dhulbante had offered support during the war, Gadabursi and Issaq are 'ethnically related', etc. In addition, there was further talks held in the regions of Sool and Sanaag where senior Dhulbante and Warsengeli elders repeated their support 4the declaration of indep. &political arrangements in Borama in 1993.
amyro89 3 years ago
i copied and pasted these msgs (i posted them b4)to give u some info about what was going on b4 secession.
I assume the 'crap' ur refering to is that fact that north and south were not as similar as u claim (at least in terms of those factors i mentioned) and there were problems w/ the union whether u agree or not.
if u cant agree on a leader b/c of what clan he comes from then there's an implication of an underlying racism.
amyro89 3 years ago
"if u cant agree on a leader b/c of what clan he comes from then there's an implication of an underlying racism"
I'm sorry what?????
Racism um aren't Somalis um both the same race
I assume therefore it's not racism
You could call it discrimination.....
8720Musse 3 years ago
discrimination is racism in action.
Racism isnt used just to describe the belief that one race is better than another. It can be used for culture, religion and in this case tribes. The belief that someone shouldnt hold a high position b/c of the grp they belong to-whatever the reason- implies that they (collectively) are unworthy and too inferior despite the qualifications they may or may not have and that the other grp will no matter their skill, always be suited for that position. U get it?
amyro89 3 years ago
RACISM DEALS WITH RACE!
8720Musse 3 years ago
"Racism isnt used just to describe the belief that one race is better than another. It can be used for culture, religion and in this case tribes."
Clearly you don't understand RACISM
Not trying to be mean but you realize you make no sense.
8720Musse 3 years ago
buddy, u can look it up. Racism isnt just about one race being better than another, it can be used for situations where one claims that one culture is better than another. Look my prof actually gave that def. so im going by his words and NOT urs.
heres a web def. of it:refers to beliefs &practices that assume inherent and significant differences exist between the genetics of various groups of human beings; that assume these differences can be measured on a scale of "superior" to "inferior";
amyro89 3 years ago
Since when do (ethnic) Somalis differ in culture (OR GENETICS) in a major way to even be able to discriminate (not RaCISM)
It's like hating yourself, your own culture
Somalis discriminate b/c of Clans
I'm just laughing you said RACISM HAS TO DO with RELIGION
Hey if you want to feel like your different and better than other Somalis go forward with it....Hope that gets you somewhere
Aren't you a qabil .....
8720Musse 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Fool. Discrimination is racism in action go look it up.
And why do u think their are clans b/c they differ in terms of their origins and hence genetics (heredity, variation etc). Ur implying that all Somalis are related, They are not. Seriously go look it up. There's no point in arguing over facts.
umm what do u think Islamophobia is? Its a form of racism that is directed towards islam and the ppl who practice it.
didnt we agree not to insult each other?
amyro89 3 years ago
"I assume the 'crap' ur refering to is that fact that north and south were not as similar as u claim (at least in terms of those factors i mentioned) and there were problems w/ the union whether u agree or not. "-
WHAT TERMS--- you are still talking about clans
ethic Somalis are the same ok
even the bantu Somalis - have taken our culture (only difference -their origin)
I don't know much about the bantu that's it
LIKE i said please tell me how are religion, traditions, and race are different?
8720Musse 3 years ago
ok im assuming u dont noe what im refering to but i was simply talking about why the amalgamation didnt work. Its not clans I was talking about the systems unless ur referring to that info i provide about clans.
The culture itself isnt all that different if u remove the adminis. effects of the colonialist. But how does this prove that S.land shouldnt be its own state? THe union didnt work so they got out of the deal. A deal that north hadnt completely agreedsince they rejected the constit. 4it
amyro89 3 years ago
I dont think this will end and this problem was aggravated during Barre's rule and it wont be ending any time soon.
whatever u stance, S.land did follow procedure when it seperated and this cannot be disregarded. The state has made great strides w/ little aid (due to not being recognized except from the diaspora) and I think that speaks for itself
amyro89 3 years ago
This makes the seperation legit. in terms of politics but the recognition has been slow b/c S.land and SOmalia both claim to have ties to the land.
Actually, when the north and south did unite there were problems that had to due w/ the amalgamation process when it came to official languages (Eng, Ital), legal systems (4 traditions-brit, ital, islamic, somali law), diff. administrative systems, police forces, taxes, currencies, education systems etc.
amyro89 3 years ago
S.land and Somalia both have ties to the land b/c THEY are both THE SAME...
Same origin and culture....etc.
Our official languages should be Somali
Who cares about the ENG and ITA--They both colonized us but our language and culture are Somali
Can you tell me what different Traditions we have???
How are we so different???
8720Musse 3 years ago
Whether u hold these factors as highly or not, they did have an effect. So much so that w/i a year of uniting, there was an attempted coup by northern militia to restore our previous autonomy.
So since Saudi Arabia and Arab Emeriates are close in culture and language should they be one country? Not necessarily. This is a decision that the ppl of those regions need to make for themselves.
amyro89 3 years ago
WE are CLOSER than just Culture and LANGUAGE
Like I said it's about clans clans clans
I don't care how much you make your self believe other wise
Tell me how we are different?
And don't tell me darood and hawiye and etc...
8720Musse 3 years ago
we differ in origin and there are minor differences in terms of customs, etc. But how does this prove that unity works? Or that S.land shouldnt be its own country.
Besides ur points about culture and S.land can easily be rebut w/ the Dijubuti who also chose not to unite. Its the ppl who decide and w/ over 90% for secession, its pretty clear what they want.
amyro89 3 years ago
State the differences of the south and north
clan a and b
B/c your proving nothing
8720Musse 3 years ago
and what are u trying to prove that b/c we're similar we should all be one happy country. That didnt turn out so well considering that 3 genocides were committed during the union.
I suppose that since a number of arab countries are similar, then they should all be one state by default? No that hardly makes any sense. For one thing its the ppl who have to decide and S.landers have spoken
amyro89 3 years ago
No need to argue with you
have a nice time in your deluded life
"Somaliland" (land of Somalia) will not be recognized You don't seem to understand what I'm stating
for example i said people do things that are haram
everyday that they aren't suppose to do
but they can stop.
Stay in school! Really!
8720Musse 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
LOLS. U really dont noe ur politics. First off what are the attributes of a state? 1. has a stable popu 2. territory 3. sover (control over popu and recog)
Somalia doesnt have a stable popu, nor control over it but it does have territory.
S.land has a stable popu, its own territory (it has controlled it fairly well), it has control over its popu. but no recog.
amyro89 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Stop acting like u noe what ur talkin about, i'm studying politics and if u did noe this u wouldnt be posting that nonsense about culture (which is really the only point u've made so far).
amyro89 3 years ago
8720Musse 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
but why should they join? Is that all u have b/c their similar? Are u advocating for taking the away the right of the ppl of S.land to make that decision for themselves?
Somalia will never be able to fix the clan issue. Clans are something thats been a part of all somali regions for several hundred years and yet u expect it to change? Seems rather foolish to me
amyro89 3 years ago
BYE! and do ur research b4 posting.
While Somalia has been associated w/ chaos and violence, S.land has been the complete opposite and has had relative peace.
The fighting that ur refering to happened a year ago and the issues have largely been resolved.
A # of academics &politicians support my belief that S.land should be recognized such as anthropologist &professor IM Lewis (who has way more knowledge than u &me), Lord Avebury, Kerry McCarthy, etc. All who noe more than u & r unbiased.
amyro89 3 years ago
Somaliland will be next Africa frontrie promise,,
We love pearce
When come war we are fierst as we always victorios, which our enemy is aware of
The recent survey by from the Norwigian company shows that Somaliland held vast oil in reserve, The drilling is already has began.
THANK TO ALLAH THE FUTER IS BRIGHT
hate us much u like and please do say negtive about my country it will ony make as sronger,,,, MAY ALLAH BLESS SOMALILAND
londoner50 2 years ago
Likewise this decision has been made by S.land thru a referendum in which over 90% voted for secession. It seems rather foolish to bring up an issue that has been decided by the ppl.
amyro89 3 years ago
to be honest whenever, i encounter others they tend to get rather offensive or claim as one other person did recently to not read my msgs b/c they're too long.
amyro89 3 years ago
NO I'm not offended
I'm may come off as that
but I'm not
I'm just fend up with Somalia's problems is all
This tribal stuff is the root of chaos and corruption
8720Musse 3 years ago
This leader later went on to guide Somalia into a war with Ethiopia, committed economic discrimination and clan-cleansing,etc. His rule consisted of intimidation and terror, indiscriminant killings and the loss of life of hundreds of thousands. Barre played a large role in where SOmalia is now. A great leader? No.
amyro89 3 years ago
There was an idiot who claimed that former dictator, Siad Barre, was a great leader. Firstly, he was not a legitimate leader nor did he lead a legit. gov'nt. This was due to the fact he was not voted in by the Somali citizens nor was his gov'nt. He became president thru a coup after the death of Pres. Sharmarke. He dissolved the 1960 constitution, he formed a totalitarian rule and outlawed any other parties except his own. Yep, a great leader who couldnt stand the thought of competition.
amyro89 3 years ago
Anyways good luck with your dreams! Lool! If you guys want to atleast separate couldnt you guys come up with a different name other than Somali-land! Perhaps Isaaqland would do much better because thats what you guys are fighting for.
One more thing Mohamed Said Barre is the greatest Somali hero and to compare to him Hitler shows your ignorance and your disrepect to everything that is Somali! Like I say "Are we better off than we were 20 years ago". Most rationale humans would say No!
supablackman 3 years ago
Somaliland???? Is that the best u got??? Making fun of our country and the Issaqs? I suppose when we named it Somaliland we were trying to back to our roots from when we were ruled by Britain. Or maybe we just wanted to pretend we hadnt united with the murders in the south. u know trying to forget wat had been done to us by the barre regime and how he had his soldiers line up our men and shot them one by one. or the fact that100's were kidnapped and never seen again. wow u've reached a new low
amyro89 3 years ago
My ignorance? This is the guy who stole assests from my family (similar to hitler's policies towards the jews), his actions taken against the nomadic population were another similarity to hitler's treatment of the jews where he had his men tamper with the supplies of the people (cattle, water etc) b4 leading a bombing campaign against them.
Yes...these certainly are the qualities of a great leader who favored his own and f-ed up everyone else. The comparison is based on research about genocides
amyro89 3 years ago
Disrespect u say? His policies almost got my dad killed and ended up taken the lives of my cousin who was only a child, and countless others.
We'll when u ask the question r we better off than we were 20 y/a, well i'm pretty sure ive answered this b4 and maybe u forgot (or chose to ignore)but the south isnt better off (well 2 yrs ago it was when the Islamic courts took over -im not talking about their policie but the peace they brought) but the north has been quite successful since seperation
amyro89 3 years ago
so why should we let the south brings us into chaos. Look @ the fightin man! just look any person with an ounce of commonsense would realize why we dont want to be tied down to that anymore. too many lives were lost.
Barre in short was a racist and war criminal and in the eyes of the world -not u- that makes him a horrible person who turned against his own and hence the comparison with hitler.
lols. if u dont believe me y dont u look it up & make up ur mind. its all written& then we cna talk
amyro89 3 years ago
B/c u refuse to see reason. Instead u listen to propoganda. I -on the other hand- have consulted several sources before making up my mind.
Seriously, go look up what Barre and his regime did.
amyro89 3 years ago
Its no use talking to u, so instead im telling u go research it. B/c if u haven't (which has clearly been demonstrated by ur lack of knowledge of international relations, disregard for H/R violations, and blatant hatred for S.land- illustrated by u -ignorantly calling it issaqland and displaying little respect to its loss of life and oppressing faced by the Barre regime).
amyro89 3 years ago
U might reply back that u dont hate s.land but ur thinly veiled racist attacks says differently. Stop making it about the clans and make about whats best for the people. U said that somalia isnt any better than it was 20 yrs ago, perhaps seperation will change this.
amyro89 3 years ago
Lastly, have u considered that under Barre's regime 2 clans called for independence and his response was not to change his policies nor to consult the two clans but to destroy them. His reasons were very much similar to urs, he called them anti-somali or something along those lines. Clearly, history supports my claim that this wasnt a great man but instead one who ruled through force. Perhaps, if he tried to kill ur family off for no substantial reason u would feel the same.
amyro89 3 years ago
Take the arguements you said and apply it to Quebec and Scotland. You find that they have more of a legitimate case for independence from their respective states. Now what makes you think the world is going to recognize Somaliland? By law if a country wants to separate it must have consultation with the country it is separating from thats a fact!
To suggest I or non-Isaaqs are behind the so called genocide, quite frankly highlights your true colors and your motives.
supablackman 3 years ago
Really? Did Quebec face a genocide? no in fact they have been favored throughout the last half of the century. But there is one valid point with Quebec, a judge (i cant remember which court it was) that they, if a certain percent (50 i beleive)voted for seperation then they should recieve it. This is the rule of self determin. where the ppl decide how and who will govern them. This is a law &jsut bcit doesnt agree w/ur views dont go making new ones up...or at least tell me where u got them
amyro89 3 years ago
Just in case u didnt noe S.landers were polled under Prez. Egal &asked if they wanted to seperate over 90% voted for it
amyro89 3 years ago
there's self determination for u. Instead trying make laws up maybe u should actually consult with the international ones. Just a thought :)
amyro89 3 years ago
Well I never called out innocent people who had nothing to do with it. I never even put u in the category of these people so stop trying to play the victim b/c no one pointed any fingers at u. If u go over my posts u'd see that i have tried to back up everything i've said with research and unfortuantely, the genocide took the form of north vs. south division. I mentioned a few who were responsible and who even today, have lead normal lives despite the thousands killed.
amyro89 3 years ago
We both know who was behind it. And who was behind the Hawiye genocide and the marjeerteen genocide. All im saying is if we can't talk about anything without u getting all defensive and saying things like u think i did it??? That's not the issue here. Yes there were non-isaaqs behind the killings but instead acknowledging this, u say it 'highlights [my] true colours and motives' wow... another strike against u. Go do ur research, seriously just go to an academic library and borrow some books.
amyro89 3 years ago
I could take that very same argument and turn it around and say that 'ur animosity torwards S.land demonstrates -or in ur words- highlights ur true colurs and ur motives.' Lols. Trying to play ur self as an academic but u kinda failed when u started making up laws and when u said i didnt understand them. Whats so hard to get about them? seriously thats a weak argument and if u actually consulted the laws u would realize this to.
amyro89 3 years ago
in addition the last part of ur message is pretty laughable considering u support a war criminal.
Yea... u really dont have malevolent feelings towards S.Land even though u call the guy who tried to destroy it a great guy... yep no feelings of hate or envy wat so ever.
amyro89 3 years ago
Another hole in ur argument is the fact that quebec and anglophone canada we're colonized by two different countries. Quite similar to Italien Somaliland and British SOmaliland.
amyro89 3 years ago
Your arguement is based on Bosnia. Loool! Bye you are done! Bosnia separated becaused they proved they are a different people with different religion and history! What's your argument? Hmm Somaliland ought to separate because we are Isaaq! So your arguement for separation is based on Qabiil. It just shows this fallacy called Somaliland is based on Qabiil and nothing else.
supablackman 3 years ago
Lols. I wasnt talking about the culture. Tell me wat prompted this seperation?????The war and ethnic cleansing.
I never based my reasons on our ethnicity i based it on the fact that we were oppressed. The fallacy??? Fool the fallacy is in thinking that somalia is actually a state, oh lemme correct that: failed state.
amyro89 3 years ago
No, the reason why I am not going to debate you is because we are not going nowhere with this. We can agree to disagree! Although I believe my points I have stated earlier are valid. Secondly, I have more constructive things to do than argue with an individual who wont answer my simple questions. It seems you have not really fully comprehended international law and how it applies. Good luck with your dreams and keep trying to convince the world with your lies. Like I said people are not stupid!
supablackman 3 years ago
No. You just havent given me any good reasons about why we should unite. In fact, you like to pretend that my reasons are invalid despite consultation with intern. law. Wow... so it really is true.
List out ur questions and ill get to them after my exams are done ill even cite them using book i found that talks about the history of all this.
What lies bro? The fact that Barre tried to oppress us by only investing in the south and then when he realized that we werent happy..he tried 2 kill us?
amyro89 3 years ago
list out ur simple questions then cuz i thought i answered them and why dont u answer mine???
u think i dont have things to do? I'm to show u another p.o.v based on research that i have done over the last year and u based not on logic or reason said it was wrong???? give me ur reasons and i mean real reasons instead of u just ranting.
O btw, have u noticed i haven't said anything remotely negative (despite H/R violations about any tribes) so plz as an elder, act ur age.
amyro89 3 years ago
stop calling it issaqland b/c unlike puntland we havent limited political postions to one tribe
amyro89 3 years ago
I dont understand international law now that is funny coming from the guy who complete labelled a law as a lie or invalid. LOLS :). Now thats funny. Right to self determination, human rights violations which we're disregarded by u as lies, and ur saying i dont understand international law? right, well when im citing intern. laws they're either invalid or i dont understand them. Glad we got that figured out.
Just b/c u dont agree, doesnt mean wat i say was wrong.
amyro89 3 years ago
Until you give me a concrete reason as to why Somaliland ought to separate I think this discussion is not going no where!
supablackman 3 years ago
Based on ur opinions (not facts b/c its not based on law or conventions), if we apply the same logic to Bosnia's independence,they shouldn't be recognized &that in order to obtain this recognition, they need to get the former Yugoslavia's permission?!
Look, I have cited laws and have explained why the Issaq are not a part of Somalia.
amyro89 3 years ago
Everything ive stated is valid according to international law and last time I checked, somaliland's soveriegnty had nothing to do with u. Why dont u, instead of listening to propoganda b/c thats what it is when u call the mastermind of 3 genocides a great guy.
amyro89 3 years ago
Stop trying to act like ur not biased at least I've used facts to back up my arguments all u've done is ranted and raved. I guess if the south isnt happy then the north can't be, eh? Lols. stop trying to act like ur being rational,at least i've done my research, u probably just listened to everything u heard from ur clan about how bad somaliland is. And yet u guys fail to acknowledge the refugees we take in from the south. We did the whole united thing and all it resulted in were lives lost.
amyro89 3 years ago
Your disregard for the laws that support Somaliland's soveriegnty prove that nothing has changed. There are certain people who believe they are above the law and ur so called 'great'president siad barre was one of them. Of course he made the laws and he targeted tribes in order to strengthen his own.
amyro89 3 years ago
Nothing has changed the fighting in the south still continues while the north has lead a peaceful existence.
Its fine that u think my points aren't strong enough. But to call the laws ive cited not good enough proves that u, like barre, think u are above the law or that ur reasons are better than others.
so tell me supablackman why should we join up with Somalia? Oh and btw the whole bit about asking permission is stupid.
amyro89 3 years ago
Not one person has acknowledged the wrongdoings committed by the siad barre and until that happens and those monsters -the masterminds (Barre' son in law being one of them)- are brought to just stop talkin about unity
amyro89 3 years ago
Fine, if u won't respond to my questions. I have no choice but to assume that you cannot defend ur stance.
1st off, the laws that i have listed for u may not support ur views but they are fair and u must respect them. let me repeat that: just b/c international laws/conventions do not favor ur beleifs, it does not make it invalid. You are not above the law and neither is are masterminds.
amyro89 3 years ago
Your lack of respect for justice and the law demonstrates an eerie similarity to Barre's regime. Nothing has changed, there are certain people who refuse to acknowledge they are wrong and they carry on thinking that the lives lost during the time Somalia was united mean nothing. Somaliland will not make that mistake again. I'm not being racist or clanist, its just that history tends to repeat itself.
amyro89 3 years ago
This can be seen by the cycles of ethnic cleansing that have occured again and again in the south. Stop trying to bring S.land down. We don't need the south and their chaos.
amyro89 3 years ago
The only condition I believe Somaliland can separate is in consultation with the rest of Somalia. Until then sorry to spill the truth, Somaliland will not separate that is a hard reality. There are more countries who have a more legitimate claim in seeking sovereignty than Somaliland. Im sorry you cannot keeping using the notion we have the right to self determination, it just doesnt cut it and thats the reality. Are somalilanders a different race and have different religion than the rest?
supablackman 3 years ago
Now thats funny. Getting permission to seperate from the very people who were behind the Issaq genocide. Nice.
I wonder how the Isrealis would have felt if they had to seek permission to form their own country from the Nazis.
Well Somaliland has their own government, one that actually has authority over its own people.
Oh yea, just thinking about seeking the transitional governments permission when its own people dont even listen to them. Haha
amyro89 3 years ago
I went over my posting limit. I have given my reasons to you. Look it up everything i've brought is valid. U might not agree with it but the decision has nothing to do with the south.
What about the Bosnia? They recieved their soveriegnty after a war & ethnic cleansing.
amyro89 3 years ago
tell me is it based on carefully crafted research or ur opinion. Somalia is a- repeat after me- failed state with no claim or authority over S.land.
Well tell me this, if we're so different from the south, why were we killed off and labelled as unsomali/anti-somali. U guys were toting this whole difference thing before why the change? besides why should we fork over our independence, peace, prosperity (in comparison to somalia)? b/c we speak the same language, practice the same religion?
amyro89 3 years ago
Well, that's not good enough. The two somalilands uniting were a test that failed. Have u heard of the saying, 'fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me.'Well there aint gonna b a second time, no matter how similar u claim us to be.
amyro89 3 years ago
My friend I am using historical facts unlike you who is using proproganda from die hard successionists. I have a legitimate question for you- tell me what is your premise for separation from Somalia based on? No crap like we have the right self determination because that shit does not fly. If it did Quebec and Scotland would have separated! Is your claim based on you guys are a different race, different religion, different culture because quite frankly that is more a convincing arguement!
supablackman 3 years ago
I am using historical facts. Stop denying the significance of the genocide. The so-called right to self determination is one of the international conventions set out by the UN. This is just another example of Somalians who, for the sake of unity, will kill thousands. U r not above the law so stop defiling it.Quebec and Scotland are not the right examples as they haven't been oppressed (for the last century) why not use Ukraine as an example and their plight against the Soviets? the Nazis?
amyro89 3 years ago
Look it up my friend, I'm in Uni. and whenever I say something I make sure to back it up. And I have using international laws and conventions. I dont want to repeat myself.
Somaliland has had movements for independence since the early 80's and taken that into account we have been seperated from the south far longer than we've been together. And b/c of that seperation we've managed to clean up the mess left by the war.
amyro89 3 years ago
The whole different culture can be rebutted with the fact that we've been colonized by two different countries. Also, one could ask what about Djibouti? They are also somali and have been colonized by France.
Moreover, one could point to the fact that Rwanda and Burundi which both have similar culture (Hutus, etc). To force them to join together would be unthinkable. Somaliland has been independent for nearly twenty years where as the south has been in chaos for the same amount.
amyro89 3 years ago
Alun Michael (House of Commons debates
Tuesday, 11 November 2008)
I am sure that the whole House will wish to send its sympathy to the people of Somaliland following the recent suicide bombings that disrupted the peace and development of democratic institutions which had continued for the past 18 years.
jislboy 3 years ago
When our right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary visited Cardiff recently, he met leaders of the Somali community. I was particularly proud of the young Somali women from Fitzalan high school and the young Somali men from Butetown and Grangetown who said that they wanted to help build links back into the Somaliland community.
jislboy 3 years ago
Will Ministers encourage the diaspora to become involved particularly in work with schools in Somaliland, and will my hon. Friend join me in considering the possibility of internet links to help build pupil-to-pupil and teacher-to-teacher contacts between us and Somaliland?
jislboy 3 years ago
Somaliland has to keep distinguishing itself from Somalia . Somaliland also must be vigilant and double its efforts to prevent the importation of the failed and deadly southern political culture into Somaliland . Those cowards can't harm strong Somaliland. Somalilanders love their country and they know these un-islmic terrorists. Long live Somaliland !
jislboy 3 years ago
So you I guess you are going to blame Darood for the explosions that happened in Hargeysa? On that note why dont you blame Darood's for the earthquakes in China and the famine in Africa. LOL! The fact of the matter is you cozied up to people who destroyed their own homes in the hopes they could sympathize with your scandolous and vile behaviour. As a result, unfortunately you learned your lesson. Somaliland is not immune to what happens to the rest of Somalia. I know its hard to swallow! :)
supablackman 3 years ago
If you go over his message... he doesn't actually call out any tribes. Everything he stated was a fact: the porous borders that S.land shares with south allowed this to happen. You need to stop being so defensive.
Ur last sentence is really offensive. 1st off ur assuming we r a part of somalia. We r not, we have our own government, own policies and we speak differently. Hows that for a cultural difference??? U might not like our independ., but u have not said anything substantial about unity
amyro89 3 years ago
Nonetheless, I sympathize to those who have died innocently in Hargeysa and in Bossaso. A very tragic espisode indeed!
supablackman 3 years ago
Somaliland & Badhan forever=)
Badhan0 3 years ago
Somaliland & Hargeysa forever =)
Niggagotattitude 3 years ago
arent da ISAAQ people, the people dat once claimed 2 be related to isreal people..ceeb wallahi...if u people r runnin away from being somali y do u still carry da name somali wit u i wonder...u dnt wanna be called somali and yet u still call urselves..wierd people wallahi..FUK DEMOCRACY..SHARIA LAW 4 LIFE..AL-SHABAAB IS COMIN 2 HARGESA..AND WE SHALL MAKE U MUSLIM AGAIN..
StraightouttaSomalia 3 years ago
why are all this zoomalia... hate somaliland
my friend isaaq and somaliland people are nothing to do with isreal peopl... your problem is you just jelous about your own people. somaliland is country in horn of africa. it has own preseident currency and armay... and is democradic country... unlike the rest of somalia you talking about who every day kill each other like animals... zoomalia... hate or love it somaliland is here to stay..
faysalburco 3 years ago
You are just onther hater, may allah give you peace that is i can say to you.
Be and let us Be, Somailand 4ever
Badhan0 3 years ago
Viva Somaliland and thier Young Educated People like these two smary young man and woman.
ahme0130 3 years ago
Look we don't expect you to support us but at least acknowledge the mistakes of the last regime (which could really be tied to a south vs north conflict).
supablackman, you're the biggest actor and the most ignorant. Look up the history of Italian Somaliland and British Somaliland. Think before you say something.
amyro89 3 years ago
Think before I say something? I dont get it, I am thinking and spelling out the facts. Do you understand what I am saying? I will not condemn Mohamed Said barre's legacy as a man who brought prominence, peace and stability to Somalia. For which this point I make shows that Mohamed Said Barre was a great man because of the current status quo. Are we better off than we were 25 years ago as a nation? I guess not! Thus Mohammed Said Barre was a great man. Unitl I am proven wrong I remain right!
supablackman 3 years ago
Look i'm sorry if I went a little over board. But Barre had conducted a Nazi-like genocide against rival tribes. This is not what great people do. Moreover, the he played a big role in turning clans against each other and that problem can still be found in the south.
amyro89 3 years ago
It depends on what area that you're talking about when you say that we are'nt better than we were 25 years ago. Somaliland has managed to rebuild Hargiesa after it was destroyed. The Ogaden are, from what i've read, are facing an ethnic cleansing by the ethiopian gov'nt. Somalia still remains a failed state.
amyro89 3 years ago
question where did you get your information about Silanyo being invovled in an ethnic cleansing?
Btw, i'll research about the Hawiye genocide later on this week and be able to give you an answer. I have a whole bunch of papers due.
amyro89 3 years ago
He was part of Barre's administration? On that point isnt he and Riyaale guilty? I guess Dick Cheaney and Condi Rice were not responsible for the invasion of Iraq based on your logic.
supablackman 3 years ago
I can see your point but I've been looking into it and haven't been able to conform anything. Unlike with other government officials, there haven't been any accusations that I've I heard of. So I just want a reliable source to confirm your claims.
amyro89 3 years ago
The whole dick cheaney and condi example supporting the Iraq war can be rebutted with the point that Colin Powell didn't really support the war but was unable to do anything about it because the Bush and the remainder of his adminstration were against him. Moreover, they kind of screwed him over by not including him in major decisions.
amyro89 3 years ago
Btw I'm not condoning what he did (if he did it). I realize it can be taken that way.
amyro89 3 years ago
The Hawiye ethnic cleasning began when they demanded independence which annoyed Barre.
amyro89 3 years ago
The whole Silanyo thing and comparing it to the Dick CHeney and Condi thing doesnt really hold up when one considers that back then in SOMALIA, if u openly went against the government, u were taken away (prison or death). Ur assuming this was a democratic state with freedom of speech. it was not.
amyro89 3 years ago
A lot of ppl spoke out against Barre and they all disappeared. This is the guy who ruled Somalia much like Hitler ruled Nazi Germany. Still think he's great?
Besides, Silanyo never made the decision to go after the other tribes, that was Barre. DOnt go deflecting the blame somewhere else (I've explained my reasons why above).
amyro89 3 years ago
Abdikhadar with regards to the issues everything these individuals are saying is so incomplete that there is no point in arguing? This is the same reason why the State Department and the world was not convinced about your claims because they are all lies.I just love how you guys play the victim card, its "us" and "them". Who is them the rest of Somalia? The ones who you go around the world denigrating as savages? Saxiib, you guys need a an Oscar wallahi you are all actors lool and bad ones too.
supablackman 4 years ago
What are you talking about? Do your research before you open your mouth. It is a widely accepted fact that the Siad Barre regime destroyed the former British Protectorate.
The Isaaq were not the only victims of Barre, the Hawiye and Marjeerteen were as well.
And to be honest, things haven't changed, there's still ethnic cleansing going on in the south as well as the problem with war lords.
amyro89 3 years ago
Abdikhadir what is so invalid about my point?Is it too hard for you to comprehend that Peter Tatchell is an Anti-Islam homosexual fear monger who equates Islam with fascism. It seems you can not accept that reality. Or maybe according to you its okay for Tatchell to denigrate Islam so long as he supports Somaliland. What a Hypocrite! It shows how far the successionists will go to further their scandolous agenda. Yuck!
supablackman 4 years ago
supablackman..talk about the issue not thatchel who is afreind of somaliland..stop wasting your time on s/land...it is sad how you are trying to go in to religiuos lines in order to make an inavalid point..somaliland exist with or with you
abdikhadar1984 4 years ago
If my fellow Somalians knew Peter Tatchell's anti-Islam stance they would distance themselves from him. Then again it just shows you that how far the successionists will go to push their agenda even if it means selling out their religion to a man who is known to equate Islam with Fascism. Do your research on the man and you will find out what I mean.
supablackman 4 years ago
The fact that these carpet baggers demean other fellow somalians as savages and barbarians just to push the scandalous propoganda of "Isaacland" is just disgusting and a disturbing.Lol it really startles me the filth and lies that are spewing out of these individuals and how this poor white man is so gullible to their filth. I wonder why this filth doesnt sell well among policy makers and academics across the world!
supablackman 4 years ago
Hey supablackman, id just like to point out that under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights the rights of the Issaq were violated under articles 5, 7, 9, 17, and there were some other articles but they were questionable.
amyro89 3 years ago
I guess on that pretext only Isaaq's human rights were only violated? What about the rights of other Somali's whose right's were violated as well? I guess its only Isaaq's human rights that matter! Wow you guys just proven how lame your arguements are. You know world leaders are not stupid and they know their history as well. You guys have to come up with a better arguement because honestly this whole Isaaqland thing wont sell.
supablackman 3 years ago
I never said that the Issaq's rights were worth more than any other tribe. I have tried to explain to based on internation laws the violation of their human rights. I have implied the same thing in other messages if you recall, i spoke about the Marjeerteen and Hawiye ethnic cleansing. Where are u getting ur info???? bc according to intern. law we have the right to self determination.
amyro89 3 years ago
Who are these world leaders and is that the best u can come up with? Moreover, if u look up the requirements for a country to be considered a soveriegn de jure (Somaliland is Soveriegn de facto), we have 1. a stable population, unlike the south. 2. we have a strong government, unfortunately, the south does not. 3. we have our own area THAT IS SEPERATE FROM THE SOUTH.
amyro89 3 years ago
Now i dont think u noe the history but prior to colonialism, somalia didnt exist. In africa there were no such thing as a counrty just villages for the most part. The British colonized somaliland and it was known as the British protectorate. In 1960 italian somaliland (south) and british and i think u noe the rest.
I find really offensive when u make statements that imply that the Issaq massacre-like the other ethnic cleansings were & are not important when it comes to Somalia unity.
amyro89 3 years ago
Thousands of lives were lost. Secondly, Be realistic. U have a weak government in the south and a strong one in the north. Also, I've read articles basically saying that the North after the Barre was defeated wanted to rejoin with the south and we waited for the fighting to stop and it never did. Thats why there are a few in between the end of the war and our declaration of independence. We were tired of all the fighting.
amyro89 3 years ago