Money itself can be a very useful tool to gain the goods and services we all need and use. I don't like the greed aspect that money has created in this society. I believe that the ones who have should seriously look at giving the ones who don't a hand up instead of just ignoring people in need of help. The ones with the its all about me syndrome are the same types that were jumping out of building when they lost it all during the depression years. Pay IT Forward works if we all do it.
@proteanview I appreciate your inquiry into money. From my study I've learned that people have been thinking intensely about how to change the structure of the money system for hundreds if not thousands of years in an effort to create a more just way of exchanging goods and services. For example look up Silvio Gesell Worgl Experiment. Or Edgar Cahn Time Bucks.
you're thinking too much about the money and what it means than the fact that you are just a slave. the shirt you wear in this vid is a minimal amount of cloth sewn by slaves, and the design was printed by slaves, shipped by slaves, sold by slaves, bought by slaves. the money you bought it with are just your slave credits to make you fee like you arent a slave.
i recommend you to look up the venus project. It's a step above money and bartering. We can make an abundance of needed resources using technology if we wanted to, but our society is so dumb to realize that, and thus creates scarcity and poverty to make it easier to gain profit.
We don't need fiat money, and we don't need gold. We need food, water, shelter, education, and love. And we can provide all of that for everyone if we all learned to grow up, and grow out of this system.
OMG. This has to be the only idea that I disagree with Protean View. There is a book called Basic Economics: Third Edition by Thomas Sowell. This book basically deconstructs every economic fallacy to date. You can also find Thomas Sowell on Youtube. I also recommend Milton Friedman. These are two of the greatest economists of our time.
i agree too. imagine instead of working for money which holds you back from the things you need or want lets start working for the things we need/want and GETTING WHAT WE NEED/WANT. there is no reason for us to have millions starving or homeless we have plenty of resources for everyone to live wealthy the only thing holding us back is money. we definately need to all come together and share this idea with the world thank you for giving me hope that there are people ready for this change
I agree with you 100%. We can't wait for everything to be perfect, and for everyone to be on board. All those who realize that a moneyless world is the way of the future, have to come together now and start creating the world we want to see. We need to setup a website where we can exchange ideas and methods for procedure.
Its not money thats the problem. Its the hierarchial systems that govern the masses. If every man was to think and act for the good of himself and his family, their would not be such injustice and imbalance.
Stop taking orders from your "bosses" and be your own boss.
the problem with barter is that if you want a chicken and you produce pickles, you need to find a pickle wanting chicken producer. That is a hard thing to find. That is why goods in demand were use as intermediate. These goods needed to be durable, divisible and have a low weight value ratio. Often gold and silver was used. I think money is corrupted now, because it is produced by a monopoly protected by violence from competition.
In our current system, we're defined by 1 commodity - engineer, teacher, pickle-producer. We're more than that. A pickle-grower can also grow a number of other foods. He can also do minor repairs, cook, sew...
Additionally, when humans first started inhabiting deserts, all services weren't there. People and businesses moved around. Humans have a way of adjusting & 'shaking down'. Something tells me that you'd rather find ways this wouldn't work than even consider how it may.
I agree I could do some other things, but if I need a special neurologist specialized in the amygdala, what is the likely hood I have a direct quality to barter with him that is of equal value.
I'd love for it to work, because that would mean we could avoid paying taxes to the leeches that are running things into the ground (although they could tax you in direct output like in the old days)
It might also be necessary if the state collapses, but I don't think it will be fun.
everybody needs something whether it be medicine or clothes. and with the billions of people we have on this earth there is always a way to get what you need or want. we should be using our government for the things we cant find but we need. they should be the ones taking care of us not taking advantage of us to dominate the world. without money there would be no need for domination. there will still be greed but you can be greedy you just have to work for it. you can have anything you want
true. bankers found a way to corrupt and cheat the masses of the greatest money system. they did it by appealing to our laziness, our greed, etc. etc.
this is true but if we started a world without money our government would be used for comepletely different reasons. instead of our government waging wars and increasing taxes and such we could use our government for our means of trade. if we have a pickle and need a chicken but no one we know has a chicken and needs a pickle we should be able to go to our government who could find someone from across the world who has a chicken and needs a pickle. without money we have no other reason for a gov
well if everybody in the world isnt using money anymore then we would be building machines to do the jobs we dont want to do and keeping the jobs we do like to do for ourselves like educating, the practice of medicine and surgical procedures to save lives, acting and movie making, designing, playing music, farming, inventing, etc. so basically everyone is happy, including people in the government. now i do understand you thinking almost everyone who has higher power over people has a corrupt
mind and would never go for this idea, but the rest of the world, i think, would. so those people in power can only hold us down for so long before a revolution occurs.
leadership will never end, so neither will a government. basically im saying our gov would be put to better use, like what their job is suppost to be for. which is also a job people like for one reason or another whether it be they really want to help their country or they just like having some sort of control. but really the only control they would have in this idea of mine is making sure everyone has what they need from other countrys that we cant produce in our own. i would say we could try
to do it ourselves but i just dont see it working out without a team of people, which right now is the people of our government. they have been doing this kind of stuff for hundreds of years. i hope you see what im saying but please if you have more questions dont hesitate to ask. my whole life is now dedicated to changing the world, i even quit college to travel and get my word out.
If we can produce more than what is needed or produce enough to satisfy all needs/wants then we can switch to a need-based economy and we won't need money. Just my $.02
I could embrace this, I just need more specific historical evidence of a society without money. When I was in the third grade I was taking this test and it mentioned a society without money. It said how they were just trading however the currency could be any thing and since it was more than paper you had more trouble trading because everyone had different opinions on the value. The thing is that what you said involved more helping eachother in your community pulling together, I don't know.
People make everything that is made. People do everything that is done. Nature takes care of the rest... Money was created for the intention to seperate. And is exactly what it does. To live for one another IS abundance. Ironically so, there are people who somehow find this truth to be a negative one, turned thier backs and chosen money anyway. We are the muscle. the power and the magic. We DON"T need money. Thank you Hon. ;O) Jeannie
Just get tid of the evil state - its the monopoly on power - that has put us back. It is the state that has caused man kind all this suffering throughout the ages.
Get rid of this, let people have their freedoms. Let them barter if they wish, let them use whatever they agree upon as money.
Most, if not all of civilisations problems today is caused by the STATE
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Globalization did not just take decades "of planning." It is a trend that has taken shape over centuries (Spanish colonization of the "New World", colonization of Africa and Asia by Europe, industrial revolution, and so on)
You are questioning everything great, but you are questioning the value of a man's actions money. What is a tribe to do when they have enough food for a year and sitting around. Money is the symbol of one's actions against another. If there is no reason for one to do anything and no benefit to create something or work harder than his fellow tribe mates than people sit around and do nothing. You are trying to tie global economics which have failed no doubt, and money.
Humanity needs some expression of work applied reward to survive mentally as it does need different forms of sexual release. You are always interesting Pro.
If too many people resorted to some form of anarcho primitivism it would most likely cause mass genocide. What about the people without land or good soil who depend on shipments of food? Money in itself is just a tool, if it is backed by something with value like gold or silver there is nothing wrong with that. Fiat currency is the problem not real money.
theory: the idea of profit is rooted in systems of exploitation
the US has done exceeding well in a capital market place because it's based on "stolen" (for lack of a better word) land and slave labor
this foundation allowed the US to dominate world markets. now that we agree as a nation/global community that slavery is morally reprehensible, we must adapt our system=>no exploitation
what do you think?
can you recommend any authors or documentaries that would better inform my perspective.
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money certainly isnt necessary for human survival. but we are cracked out on cash for 2 reasons.
1) the wealth fantasy: the existence of money makes it possible to reach a state where people serve you and give you stuff and you do nothing. its a common fantasy that dies hard.
2) efficiency: leads to cheapness and abundance. greed and specialization are wonderful engines for filling the world with DVD players, talking toys, hello kitty dildos, etc. people seem to love this crap.
For a long time I have believed that we don't need money; but never met anyone who saw this the same way. I have been trying to figure out how to live without money for the past 4 years with limited success. It's tough because folks don't want to barter what they can get lots of money for. I guess it's just a matter of finding like minded people.
so you want to return to a barter economy? do you realize that there would be a lot of unintended consequences that would come with that change? the development of money systems is a precursor to division of labor, which is in turn a necessary antecedent to the practice of science and therefore modern medicine, technology, etc. You can't just get rid of money--we need some medium of delayed payment, some way to get things when we have no specific good or skill to offer in exchange, no?
You say that as if the division of labor came out of some great act to benefit mankind and not out of the best interest of a few people. Charity does not drive capitalism. Adam Smith will tell you it is the interest of the individual that drives it. The division of labor was born out of the lack of available farm land and alternative jobs being the only other way to provide subsistence. Everywhere you still find tribal village life you find individuals providing for themselves
Not true, it was beneficial for a community to divide labor since indivuals become a lot more efficient if they become expert in a certain field. It's better to have an expert farmer and expert doctor, than to have two people who share the medicinal and agricultural duties of the community between them.
Your indeed correct but the division of labor does not take place by choice. That was Adam Smith's point. Surplus food from improved agriculture allowed people to seek other jobs. In the early days of agriculture you could not choose to be a black smith as food was so hard to obtain it was not worth trading for metals till food became abundant. Just ask yourself, do you go to work to benefit society or yourself? To make a long story short, improved productivity gives rise to labor division.
I don't understand your question or maybe its just the way its phrased. If your asking me if I prefer personal interest over social interest I would have to say I prefer personal interest.
snave: Yeah. If I could go back and change one thing about this video, it would be that statement that I make... with such certainty, of course. How embarrassing ;-)
Was that question really meant for me? Your notion that no one in a tribal community has ever eaten quickly to have more food from the day's kill, or had more wives than necessary, run away from a tribal battle or kept anything of value hidden from the rest of the tribe is a ridiculously optimistic belief. The members of tribal communities are closely related, so it's no surprise that they are probably more compassionate to one another. Mass immigration has devastated my tribe, i.e. my nation.
"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns -- or dollars. Take your choice -- there is no other -- and your time is running out." - Francisco d'Anconia, Atlas Shrugged
Great video, it might take me quite a while to digest the message
I agree hoarding money (and food as shomari0 added, and I would add other essentials including knowledge if you consider the NiMH pattent used by Chevron to kill the electric cars in the 90s) is close to the heart of the beast.
Im not sure barter is a solution, but imo banks should not be private (maybe coop?)
Protean, if you have a few minutes, Whats your view on this 3 part series?:
sorry, but money does not make greed. humans and animals both make greed. greed exists without money, other objects and power can both be hoarded. greed is simply a relic from evolution. if an animal did not have the want to gather and hoard its food and shelter for itself and its kind, they would not survive. if cultures did not gather their resources and build up their power they would not have prospered. if either of these examples lacked that trait they would lose to those with that instinct
not just hoarding money but food and any other resource. property is theft. in order to live in harmony with the earth man must revert back to the "Law of Limited Competition", the only self sustaining form of civilization.
i Agree With a lot of the things you said...Most people serve money instead of Visa Versa. But getting an understanding of money led me to a passive system that allows anyone who applies thenselves to it to make a massive amout of money. Heres the website
greed seems like a mental disorder. for someone with more money than they can use to harm others to gain more is plainly crazy, and happens all the time.
problem is, money in the bank makes people feel secure, and it is the human tendency to fear uncertainty. a moneyless society is rife with insecurity, which is no change for poor people, but people with money and comfort will never go for it.
as you indicate, some of our societal madnesses are self reinforcing.
If honest people put in a strong effort at work they should be rewarded for it & if they are lazy at work & just sits around & do nothing then screw them. If the company rewards the lazy person & not the working man then screw the company. Pro athletes get exorbitant amounts of cash for tasks that do nothing to help the population at large. The teacher should have the lawyer's salary
& vice versa. Greedy people get it through you f*ing skull & pay fairly & stop this comic book bad guy B.S.
They get exorbitant amounts of cash because the Owners make millions, in some cases billions more. It does seem outlandish, but sports and entertanment in Gernal help people morally. We look at the entertainment business to take us away from our hard times, and give us the joys we long to have or have had in the past.
you people are missing the point about moneyless society. its only because you've grown accustomed to using it that makes it seem unrealistic living with out it. Just because you dont see it working doesn't mean it cant work. No more money means nothing costs anything. Meaning whatever it is your interested in you just do. GIVE, if there is no price or value then their is no greed or need to hurt, kill, or steal, everything for survival of humans has been perfected so what's the point of money
Good point. When you work it is a charity of the company owner to give you a bit of his/her profit. So basically you DON'T EARN MONEY BUT IT IS GIVEN TO YOU. That is the point. Now I recognize that this notion about a money/cash/coin less society is one of the signs of the end times. So if you don't want the world to come to a catastrophic end then then instead of the cashless society idea implore and insist that companies pay more & help them recognize the benefits to society in doing so.
Not only that, but in a moneyless society, the raw material supplier gets screwed because he gives away his labor for nothing. These people will never get equal compensation for their labor. Gold and silver in circulation as coin represents wealth and labor of a society. Someone had to work for that money and the next guy has to work to get that too. You can cure the greediness and ills of society by reducing the size of govt and taxation to allow people to freely donate to charities.
@idiothek Our society is way too big to barter, and we don't know most people, out there, so we have money. No one has the energy or time to try and independently evaluate how much everything would cost through bartering. I have no idea how a society would work without money, it is just really impractical.
It's interesting that I should come upon this vid. I think it's a really thought provoking one. I was wondering just a few days ago why gold is so valuable it serves no real purpose and is just held in banks. It's shiney and looks pretty and to wear it means you're rich but it just sits in a vault.
a big reason that it's valuable apart from it being pretty, is the effort that went into aquiring it, that's why it survives inflation, you might have to pay the miners more in federal reserve notes to dig up the gold, but it'll still takes the same amount of labor to get it, so it represents a convertability of effort into value, federal reserve notes do this too, but there's a disconnect between the effort it takes the fed to print it, and the effort it takes us to earn it, AKA inflation.
Then the money should go to the diggers in the cave. The federal reserve bank is highway robbery because American money is only back by debt accruing over decades. Get it together gold is a metal that formed. Man placed a value on gold as man placed a value on diamonds, sapphires, rubies, pearls and what have you. In Africa, children used to play with diamonds like other rocks, now they are dying at the hands of those rocks.
You really dont understand money if you think you can have a barter system without it. Money isn't paper, or coin, it is whatever is the most commonly sought after commodity on the market. You can REPRESENT that commodity through paper notes, but that isn't the actual money. Fiat currency is entirely different, but I wont go into that.
Thanks for clarifying bud. I agree with you. What is gold compared to the hand that forges and refines it. It's nothing. A person & their skills should be valued but keep in mind that NFL players and actors are valued or paid more than police, fireman, armed forces officers and so forth. Our perception of who is valuable is out of whack but if we focus on this we get away insuring that all people contribute to society. All should work & have opportunity to do so.
Furthermore, the electrician who's son he birthed moved to Arkansas when he finally decides to build his house or states that he doesn't want to. In the latter case, he would call the police (who are paid on labor tax??) whom would go out and force the electrician to work for our doctor *great*. There is another advantage to money, it is easier to compel others to give it up without violating as many natural rights.
He does not want all of that, especially not now, so he would barter with people who DID need it or save it up for use later, hopefully none of these people die. It would get complicated from that point on, he would spend more time counting up and divvying his earned labor debt then he would healing people, he would need a labor debt accountant, whom he would also need to pay.
Now what I mean by that, is this. By it's very nature not all labor is equal, meaning that no matter what your aim is, there would be debt. Money is simply the manifestation of that debt. Remove that money, the debt remains. Back to the doctor. A doctor heals a few hundred patients a month, for instance. Each of those patients would have to owe him 10 hamburgers, a table or 10 hours of labor on his future house.
It's called "The Wealth of Nations" and I suggest that you read it.
Here's a good question, do you expect people to work into their 70s? 80s? 90s? With the advance of medical science we are all living longer. The "hoarding" of money is not all bad, and, to an extent is very good for a culture. It is good when you are sick, too old or otherwise incapacitated. There is not much that a Doctor needs that might reciprocate his labor, by your logic all doctors would HAVE to retire by the age of 30.
patience: You've missed the point. You're still defining people in terms of a single job. You assume they would trade for the same goods or services. An exchange would be up to the two involved. No more middle men. As you say, this is too long for this forum. YouTube is no a place for research projects of dissertations. It's for ideas. Some ideas really bother some, though. Read my channel & your own comment below about 'this forum'. Your comment goes both ways.
You might be hot in gay porn...lol but when money is gone, so will the world. Read the book of Revelation the Bible. Once money is gone, the mark of the beast will come.
if the world was without money. would you go to your job and work for 12 hours? or would you learn how to gather your own food, since you can't buy it anymore?
i got a question... because you always explain... and it is not that very clear for me...you want to eliminate money??? change it to barter system... let people do thiere own labor... but... if this happens what will happen to education? there will be no point in education... because all you need to know is basic survival skills... and how do you do it... where do we start? it really seams imposible... to stop using cocaine go to a rehab center... to stop using money??? bring back time???
mikecute: We need education to teach English. We need to teach other to build homes. There is still plenty we would need to learn. We take the *best* from history and only the *best* of what we've learned since then. We're too dependent on systems we don't need and our out of our control. By running away from history in fear of repeating it, we fail to learn from it.
good point about education... but the history part... hmmm.... we fear "history" because we learned from it... we learned that things that went wrong in history is going to happen if we repeat it... and the "system" is what makes our life easy... it is a "necessity" that trough the years became our "needs" becuase it made people's life better... and to eliminate money means to eliminate the system that makes our life better... and who would a class C life if you could have a class A life...
mikecute: Things went wrong so we improved on history by creating pollution, traffic, poisonous genetically engineered foods, processed foods, cloned foods, nuclear weapons. We improved on it by privatizing natural resources and polluting the rest. The assumption that everything we've moved on to is better needs to be examined perhaps.
you are bieng one sided... look at the brighter side... not all things invented to improve our life are the same with what you stated... and all those things that you stated is a effect of good things going to bad peoples hand... if we eliminate money... do you think all of this would stop... i would trade my plants for a pack of bacon... or i would give you 1000 hectar of land for your nuclear weapon... money for labor and food for labor is different... with money you buy what you need...
mikecute: Not at all. I say we take the *best* of both. It's not all about food. We all can produce more than one good or service. In today's world, we have one occupation and pay others to do what we can do ourselves... because we spend so much time doing one. Read the 2nd paragraph on my channel.
proteanview, what about all of military people? where do they get their goods? in the end this may lead to more crimes, and immoral behaviors. i like the idea of it. but maybe not eliminating all money. if every major city produces their own agricultural goods, we would have healthier foods, we shouldnt have to pay for an education. little things like this would be an amazing start to your idea. trading services for spoils may pose a problem. mayhap, service for service, or SOME type of currency
what about people who horde goods? its not human nature to be greedy, but animal nature. gold and silver take time to get out of the ground. just like it takes time to build a car. thats why the constution says the govt can only use gold and silver and no paper. paper can be printed for nothing.
money is grease for trade. Trade makes us more efficient producers of wealth. You would not have had a camera and computer to make this video without money. Barter systems are extremely frustrating and currency naturally emerges from this frustration. Currency often develops where there is none. For example, people use cigarettes as currency in jail.
This is the favourite of my favourites; not only because its potent/thoughtful/revolutionary but because I'm gonna need to rewatch another 20 times to internalize! Thanks for this, Proteanview.
I have learned (sadly)that one can never overestimate the capacity of the average
human being to to exemplify contempt, avarice
and the pursuit of their own vainglory. We are made to use money and give each other love; instead manylove money and use others to get the money they love. Is this not a moral question? To me the question is not money but idolatry. Would removing money from picture change this corruption?
Pilgrim: Excellent point of use & love, love & use. I think of money like drugs. Drugs effect us physiologically, money does so socially. I guess it's a question of human nature or the object itself. If we left cocaine out on tables, even made it mandatory, our society would surely be different. We could blame the cocaine & tell others to just act right or blame the fall out on human nature. Removing the cocaine would surely make a difference just as removing money. ...maybe
money promotes greed? it has power? its own energy and strength? if you think you're making sense of this, try differently. people do not relate to money because of money, but rather because of their own issues. how could money do anything? just another victim to blame for people problems rather than the people themselves.
morehn: The same can be said for cocaine. It's us. Why don't we just leave it out on tables? Better yet, why don't we require it to live? If some abuse this addicting necessity, tell 'em to grow up. Good thinking, morehn. ;-)
You're absolutely right. People often think that theyre doing things for money. But they don't realize what money really means. In today's society people use money to buy things, and things (cars, houses, cloths) are what we use as status symbols. So theyre not doing it for money, theyre doing it for status. If money (or things you get with money) were no longer used to measure someones social status, people would be far less greedy.
Money is not bad. It's what's done with it. Think of money in it's purest form, A liquidation of Energy. Energy that can be good or bad. It's how we use and control our energy that counts.
you have a point there but i rather agree with what roody32 said, "money in it self is a wonderful thing that empowers man; it shows the worth of an ambitious and dedicated individual". what u plant, you harvest. but i agree that money has a lot of weaknesses, it promotes greed etc, though to live in a world without money is very impractical.People can still cheat, cheat on the quality of the things they produce eg, and it will be difficult to measure things precisely without currency.
There is always something inside of us craving MORE, whether it be apples, money, tomatoes etc. One of the things I enjoy about this is that first your shirt is really cool and your really smart, I say this because I could not stop looking at the lion and some parts I completely blanked out on and said "What?" but I am younger then you it is not because you did not make sense, it is just that your vocabulary murders mine. I'd love to hear back from you.
Youtube is so clever. 2,200 people have watched this video. That means youve preached your idea to 2,200 people. That would have been so difficult without youtube! You would have had to have done public speaking, i think there should be a way of videos like this being noticed. It seems a shame that its tucked away on the internet with no real exposure.
Look up "the logic of capital" and Marx. He argued not only that money causes greed (by turning labor into capital), but that money expands its range, and actively destroys non-capitalist systems to bring the world into the capitalist system.
I agree. Humans have both social responses and physiological responses. We respond to cocaine. We respond to money. It is that nature of money (or any currency with representative value) that causes us to be greedy. Too often we extrapolate our understanding, reality and wants on the nature of humanity at large.
That's the biggest fault I ever heard about money. You claim that it's not the nature of humans, but the nature of money who brings forth greed.
Well, this is just as someone would say that it's not the murderer's fault to stab someone to death, but the knife that lead to this. Pretty naive, dude!
Doctor: The nature of cocaine breeds certain human reactions as well. We make it illegal. Similarly, anything that we make ourselves need, and that can be hoarded facilitates greed.
Because each person has different desires as well, this allows a person to do a service for another, be compensated, then be able to turn around and go somewhere completely different to exchange his earned worth for another good/service potentially not offered by the original employer. Does this make sense?
I would simply suggest that the portability of money is the main motivating factor. I've read that money probably evolved because people who began trading in early societies needed to be able to transport a "symbol" of worth instead of the actual goods in order to buy things that the traveling person didn't want directly from the person he was trading with...money is literally the "blood" of the economy in serving this purpose of making wealth a translatable unit/thing. (continued)
paul: We wouldn't be as dependent on things & systems. You describe a people who cannot survive on their own.We could use a more simple, personable, smog-free life. Instead of tapping on computers, we could be working for our own good/exchanges & actually be physically fit w/o paying a gym. We could enjoy our free time w/actual humans, not virtual humans. There are tons of 'what ifs'. You'd have to get the sentiment to be able to answer these questions on your own.
I follow you. I often relate to that thinking that if "little green men" landed, would they use money? I never think so. My great grandfather was a pioneer. I would die in the wild!
I am thinking in a pragmatic sense. We won't reverse the past, but given no major reward for extreme efforts, what would motivate people to excel? That's the pickle.
ng370: I've been bombarded & the system will lock up while downloading the entire stream. You can see I try to include both positive & negative comments. I delete name-calling, numerous repetitive messages or quotes from authors. :-)
and who dictated the worth of such monies, hmmmmm, why are the world bank, international monetary fund, and the federal reserve all private corporations, hmmmm, and we think a meeting in davos where all the creature comforts of the world are put hold for a bit of chatting about us workers, come on
the glass duznt have to be half full or half empty, how bout it jus is?? What we can do is empower dedicated and true politicians HAHHAHA.. im sorry.. scrth that... as one man??.. U can acquire money and set an example on what money is really for... not to buy clothes for a pet poodle but to help build clothing factories in underprivleged areas or such things
with monetary rewards and as a global trendsetter this is catching across the world(try watching "fear factor" or any of these gabage reality shows on tv) .But money in it self is a wonderful thing that empowers man; it shows the worth of an ambitious and dedicated individual........ lets be real... we will never get rid of money.. im not saying is good or bad tho.....
i agree with u protean that money causes hoarding(/greed) which is one of the basest human actions in my belief. this however is the result of a lot of wealth in our country being the hands of very ignorant people who think that the sole purpose of life is to accumulate wealth. Now most of the time people with such closeminded views are not intelliegent enuff to acquire wealth but america seems to have a knack of rewarding complete idiots
I've always had a very vague idea of what you're discussing and I do think that it is something very feasible but probably only on a small scale however its worth someone doing a serious investigation or report into it.
see i completely agree, so much so that i slightly disagree lol. money i believe will be around until no one in the world remembers wat it is. its honestly but unfortantely impossible at least now to live in a world with out it, knowing that it once existed. but hopefully i just don't give man kind enough credit. people don't really do things for the "thank you" anymore their just thinking about the tip. =P
I think an even better question is this: why do the following human things require money for us to obtain them:
- Food
- Access to healthcare
- Water
There are more than enough of these resources all over the world for every person so why should some not have these and other have them? Why can't we form an accurate, responsible, precise global coalition to provide the basic things (and more) to everyone?
I think that is a more refined distillation of the things you are saying.
actually there aren't enough resources all over the world for every person infact if every person were to get these said resources they would run out at an incredibly fast rate and screw everyone
Can I see a source on that? I tend to believe that there are more than enough resources to keep everyone fed (surplus stock in supermarkets always being thrown out), access to healthcare (limitless potential to train new doctors) and water (2/3 of Earth's surface and with the correct infrastructure deliverable to all).
I think that the reason why you are getting such intense negative reactions is because what you are saying challenges the very crux of all world orders, which revolve around monetary consumption. You may wish to look into the con-worlding behind Star Trek because the Star Trek future on the Federation side went beyond money if I'm not mistaken.
melancholy: I'm loving the response. I needed to clarify my position. Can you imagine how the Wright bros must have felt when they first mentioned flying? I could have said - feed the poor, put kids first, plant trees, and all the vague ideas we've heard before, but I'm not that guy. I wanted something revolutionary. As Bertrand Russell claims: "Conventional people are roused to fury by departures from convention, largely because they regard such departures as a criticism of themselves."
I agree protean. I am saddened by the fact that it seems true substantive radical change--revolutionary action-may not be possible in our world. Our collapse into a greedy globalized world is at the heart of the problem. Fact is: the EARTH is abundantly resource-rich as a whole. Some areas more, some less. But certainly enough for all to thrive.
We have not begun to think of building a peaceful, non-greedy earth for all. The word "sacrifice" and the idea "what would you give up so others can gain" infuriates people. They say: I need to get mine. So, thank you for beautifully thinking out of the box. People will hate you (and us) for it!
its not arab countries owning US ports that is wrong. in fact americans owning US ports is just as wrong. every place should own its own port and allow others to use it responsibly. and this should be valid for everything.
we'd have to give up centralized state... I commented somewhere that we don't need the actual state to feel that we're part of a certain culture. so, long story's short, anarchy seems to be the solution.
but all this debate has brought up another issue: "human nature", and we have no idea. I believe this is what we should be really looking into, and the rest will follow on its own...
The concept of being able to 'hoard' money is what stimulates/has stimulated the development of the world's greatest conveniences and innovations. Take that away and you take away the motivation of these great thinkers (or their superiors who finance them).
Specialization has rendered us helpless and dependent on money. Globalization has worsened the matter.
Thank you for always saying what I am thinking but saying it so much better. We must once again learn to be self sufficient in order to get away from a money society. Then, we will once again be able to really value humans instead of money and material goods.
Money itself can be a very useful tool to gain the goods and services we all need and use. I don't like the greed aspect that money has created in this society. I believe that the ones who have should seriously look at giving the ones who don't a hand up instead of just ignoring people in need of help. The ones with the its all about me syndrome are the same types that were jumping out of building when they lost it all during the depression years. Pay IT Forward works if we all do it.
lawter1234 8 months ago
@proteanview I appreciate your inquiry into money. From my study I've learned that people have been thinking intensely about how to change the structure of the money system for hundreds if not thousands of years in an effort to create a more just way of exchanging goods and services. For example look up Silvio Gesell Worgl Experiment. Or Edgar Cahn Time Bucks.
summondadrummin 10 months ago
you're thinking too much about the money and what it means than the fact that you are just a slave. the shirt you wear in this vid is a minimal amount of cloth sewn by slaves, and the design was printed by slaves, shipped by slaves, sold by slaves, bought by slaves. the money you bought it with are just your slave credits to make you fee like you arent a slave.
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taunyaBriggshrfe 1 year ago
i recommend you to look up the venus project. It's a step above money and bartering. We can make an abundance of needed resources using technology if we wanted to, but our society is so dumb to realize that, and thus creates scarcity and poverty to make it easier to gain profit.
We don't need fiat money, and we don't need gold. We need food, water, shelter, education, and love. And we can provide all of that for everyone if we all learned to grow up, and grow out of this system.
xchainlinkx 1 year ago
Yes that is excatly have you read Albert Mezlter?
FacultyZ 1 year ago
OMG. This has to be the only idea that I disagree with Protean View. There is a book called Basic Economics: Third Edition by Thomas Sowell. This book basically deconstructs every economic fallacy to date. You can also find Thomas Sowell on Youtube. I also recommend Milton Friedman. These are two of the greatest economists of our time.
summercures2 1 year ago
lets all become Amish yay!
ColdBoi 1 year ago
Money is fucking useless!!!!
mexmetal666 1 year ago
I own no gold yet I have almost everything I need
Doggorunning 2 years ago
i agree too. imagine instead of working for money which holds you back from the things you need or want lets start working for the things we need/want and GETTING WHAT WE NEED/WANT. there is no reason for us to have millions starving or homeless we have plenty of resources for everyone to live wealthy the only thing holding us back is money. we definately need to all come together and share this idea with the world thank you for giving me hope that there are people ready for this change
TheNcmckinney 2 years ago
I agree with you 100%. We can't wait for everything to be perfect, and for everyone to be on board. All those who realize that a moneyless world is the way of the future, have to come together now and start creating the world we want to see. We need to setup a website where we can exchange ideas and methods for procedure.
freedomfighterone 2 years ago
Its not money thats the problem. Its the hierarchial systems that govern the masses. If every man was to think and act for the good of himself and his family, their would not be such injustice and imbalance.
Stop taking orders from your "bosses" and be your own boss.
Peace and Love
SOCRATES012 2 years ago
i agree with you, we never trust money. because money is the devil keep more bad crime increases and wars, whores, poor and rich unfairs.
yourmovieworld 2 years ago
the problem with barter is that if you want a chicken and you produce pickles, you need to find a pickle wanting chicken producer. That is a hard thing to find. That is why goods in demand were use as intermediate. These goods needed to be durable, divisible and have a low weight value ratio. Often gold and silver was used. I think money is corrupted now, because it is produced by a monopoly protected by violence from competition.
modelmark 2 years ago
modelmark
In our current system, we're defined by 1 commodity - engineer, teacher, pickle-producer. We're more than that. A pickle-grower can also grow a number of other foods. He can also do minor repairs, cook, sew...
Additionally, when humans first started inhabiting deserts, all services weren't there. People and businesses moved around. Humans have a way of adjusting & 'shaking down'. Something tells me that you'd rather find ways this wouldn't work than even consider how it may.
proteanview 2 years ago
I agree I could do some other things, but if I need a special neurologist specialized in the amygdala, what is the likely hood I have a direct quality to barter with him that is of equal value.
I'd love for it to work, because that would mean we could avoid paying taxes to the leeches that are running things into the ground (although they could tax you in direct output like in the old days)
It might also be necessary if the state collapses, but I don't think it will be fun.
modelmark 2 years ago
everybody needs something whether it be medicine or clothes. and with the billions of people we have on this earth there is always a way to get what you need or want. we should be using our government for the things we cant find but we need. they should be the ones taking care of us not taking advantage of us to dominate the world. without money there would be no need for domination. there will still be greed but you can be greedy you just have to work for it. you can have anything you want
TheNcmckinney 2 years ago
true. bankers found a way to corrupt and cheat the masses of the greatest money system. they did it by appealing to our laziness, our greed, etc. etc.
jedirhythm 2 years ago
this is true but if we started a world without money our government would be used for comepletely different reasons. instead of our government waging wars and increasing taxes and such we could use our government for our means of trade. if we have a pickle and need a chicken but no one we know has a chicken and needs a pickle we should be able to go to our government who could find someone from across the world who has a chicken and needs a pickle. without money we have no other reason for a gov
TheNcmckinney 2 years ago
"this is true but if we started a world without money our government would be used for completely different reasons."
We DID start the world without money, why do we not have that different government?
Does that new imaginary government gets funding by coercion or by good services?
modelmark 2 years ago
well if everybody in the world isnt using money anymore then we would be building machines to do the jobs we dont want to do and keeping the jobs we do like to do for ourselves like educating, the practice of medicine and surgical procedures to save lives, acting and movie making, designing, playing music, farming, inventing, etc. so basically everyone is happy, including people in the government. now i do understand you thinking almost everyone who has higher power over people has a corrupt
TheNcmckinney 2 years ago
why would people wait for the absence of money to develop robots for jobs they do not want to do?
The reason I say people who force others are corrupt, is because they would not accept such behavior if done to them the other way around.
modelmark 2 years ago
mind and would never go for this idea, but the rest of the world, i think, would. so those people in power can only hold us down for so long before a revolution occurs.
TheNcmckinney 2 years ago
leadership will never end, so neither will a government. basically im saying our gov would be put to better use, like what their job is suppost to be for. which is also a job people like for one reason or another whether it be they really want to help their country or they just like having some sort of control. but really the only control they would have in this idea of mine is making sure everyone has what they need from other countrys that we cant produce in our own. i would say we could try
TheNcmckinney 2 years ago
to do it ourselves but i just dont see it working out without a team of people, which right now is the people of our government. they have been doing this kind of stuff for hundreds of years. i hope you see what im saying but please if you have more questions dont hesitate to ask. my whole life is now dedicated to changing the world, i even quit college to travel and get my word out.
TheNcmckinney 2 years ago
except to take care of us and make sure we all have the things we need and want
TheNcmckinney 2 years ago
If we can produce more than what is needed or produce enough to satisfy all needs/wants then we can switch to a need-based economy and we won't need money. Just my $.02
silent1917 2 years ago
I could embrace this, I just need more specific historical evidence of a society without money. When I was in the third grade I was taking this test and it mentioned a society without money. It said how they were just trading however the currency could be any thing and since it was more than paper you had more trouble trading because everyone had different opinions on the value. The thing is that what you said involved more helping eachother in your community pulling together, I don't know.
MISTERWONKA7 2 years ago
Jeansteve 2 years ago 2
Just get tid of the evil state - its the monopoly on power - that has put us back. It is the state that has caused man kind all this suffering throughout the ages.
Get rid of this, let people have their freedoms. Let them barter if they wish, let them use whatever they agree upon as money.
Most, if not all of civilisations problems today is caused by the STATE
fergus247 2 years ago
P.S.: I really enjoy watching how you make your
points : ) ..."human value is constant"
napalmsirius 2 years ago
Well said proteanview...
napalmsirius 2 years ago
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tiennedfs 2 years ago
Globalization did not just take decades "of planning." It is a trend that has taken shape over centuries (Spanish colonization of the "New World", colonization of Africa and Asia by Europe, industrial revolution, and so on)
brianiac 2 years ago
You are questioning everything great, but you are questioning the value of a man's actions money. What is a tribe to do when they have enough food for a year and sitting around. Money is the symbol of one's actions against another. If there is no reason for one to do anything and no benefit to create something or work harder than his fellow tribe mates than people sit around and do nothing. You are trying to tie global economics which have failed no doubt, and money.
J1Goro 2 years ago 2
Humanity needs some expression of work applied reward to survive mentally as it does need different forms of sexual release. You are always interesting Pro.
J1Goro 2 years ago
If too many people resorted to some form of anarcho primitivism it would most likely cause mass genocide. What about the people without land or good soil who depend on shipments of food? Money in itself is just a tool, if it is backed by something with value like gold or silver there is nothing wrong with that. Fiat currency is the problem not real money.
xxmonickkkkaxx 3 years ago
theory: the idea of profit is rooted in systems of exploitation
the US has done exceeding well in a capital market place because it's based on "stolen" (for lack of a better word) land and slave labor
this foundation allowed the US to dominate world markets. now that we agree as a nation/global community that slavery is morally reprehensible, we must adapt our system=>no exploitation
what do you think?
can you recommend any authors or documentaries that would better inform my perspective.
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Minkoojha 3 years ago
i think money is okay as long as it is not printed to excess. the system as it is set up now is designed to burst at some point.
grimshawr 3 years ago
I like money and the means it provides.
amazingdany 3 years ago
bartering.
EricOfBodomMan 3 years ago
Nuffrespect is a DISINFORMATION Agent, don't buy into his bullshit Videos.
MEXICANCONGRESSOCT10 3 years ago
My rational is the fact that he would rather talk about the Illuminati, or space Aliens, or Big Foot, rather then the Real Ruling Elite.
MEXICANCONGRESSOCT10 3 years ago
money certainly isnt necessary for human survival. but we are cracked out on cash for 2 reasons.
1) the wealth fantasy: the existence of money makes it possible to reach a state where people serve you and give you stuff and you do nothing. its a common fantasy that dies hard.
2) efficiency: leads to cheapness and abundance. greed and specialization are wonderful engines for filling the world with DVD players, talking toys, hello kitty dildos, etc. people seem to love this crap.
underweightHater 3 years ago 2
For a long time I have believed that we don't need money; but never met anyone who saw this the same way. I have been trying to figure out how to live without money for the past 4 years with limited success. It's tough because folks don't want to barter what they can get lots of money for. I guess it's just a matter of finding like minded people.
bevfilm 3 years ago
so you want to return to a barter economy? do you realize that there would be a lot of unintended consequences that would come with that change? the development of money systems is a precursor to division of labor, which is in turn a necessary antecedent to the practice of science and therefore modern medicine, technology, etc. You can't just get rid of money--we need some medium of delayed payment, some way to get things when we have no specific good or skill to offer in exchange, no?
akaso405 3 years ago
You say that as if the division of labor came out of some great act to benefit mankind and not out of the best interest of a few people. Charity does not drive capitalism. Adam Smith will tell you it is the interest of the individual that drives it. The division of labor was born out of the lack of available farm land and alternative jobs being the only other way to provide subsistence. Everywhere you still find tribal village life you find individuals providing for themselves
KhanSlayer 3 years ago
Not true, it was beneficial for a community to divide labor since indivuals become a lot more efficient if they become expert in a certain field. It's better to have an expert farmer and expert doctor, than to have two people who share the medicinal and agricultural duties of the community between them.
snave633 3 years ago
Your indeed correct but the division of labor does not take place by choice. That was Adam Smith's point. Surplus food from improved agriculture allowed people to seek other jobs. In the early days of agriculture you could not choose to be a black smith as food was so hard to obtain it was not worth trading for metals till food became abundant. Just ask yourself, do you go to work to benefit society or yourself? To make a long story short, improved productivity gives rise to labor division.
KhanSlayer 3 years ago
Out of interest what would you prefer instead?
snave633 3 years ago
I don't understand your question or maybe its just the way its phrased. If your asking me if I prefer personal interest over social interest I would have to say I prefer personal interest.
KhanSlayer 3 years ago
A good argument but ultimately greed is indepenent of money. Men can hoard an resource, food, coal, iron ore, gold, etc
snave633 3 years ago
snave: Yeah. If I could go back and change one thing about this video, it would be that statement that I make... with such certainty, of course. How embarrassing ;-)
proteanview 3 years ago
Name ONE tribal society, where people exhibit greed.
DonQuixoteY2K 3 years ago
Was that question really meant for me? Your notion that no one in a tribal community has ever eaten quickly to have more food from the day's kill, or had more wives than necessary, run away from a tribal battle or kept anything of value hidden from the rest of the tribe is a ridiculously optimistic belief. The members of tribal communities are closely related, so it's no surprise that they are probably more compassionate to one another. Mass immigration has devastated my tribe, i.e. my nation.
snave633 3 years ago
"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns -- or dollars. Take your choice -- there is no other -- and your time is running out." - Francisco d'Anconia, Atlas Shrugged
Kaurotu 3 years ago
Money = Debt/Exploitation
DonQuixoteY2K 3 years ago
Great video, it might take me quite a while to digest the message
I agree hoarding money (and food as shomari0 added, and I would add other essentials including knowledge if you consider the NiMH pattent used by Chevron to kill the electric cars in the 90s) is close to the heart of the beast.
Im not sure barter is a solution, but imo banks should not be private (maybe coop?)
Protean, if you have a few minutes, Whats your view on this 3 part series?:
(part 1)
/watch?v=O8Zl1Wax8MI
Rickdeckard2020 3 years ago
sorry, but money does not make greed. humans and animals both make greed. greed exists without money, other objects and power can both be hoarded. greed is simply a relic from evolution. if an animal did not have the want to gather and hoard its food and shelter for itself and its kind, they would not survive. if cultures did not gather their resources and build up their power they would not have prospered. if either of these examples lacked that trait they would lose to those with that instinct
deltabird 3 years ago 7
not just hoarding money but food and any other resource. property is theft. in order to live in harmony with the earth man must revert back to the "Law of Limited Competition", the only self sustaining form of civilization.
shomari0 3 years ago
money is the most devastating weapon humankind ever fired on itself.
2nd one havn't been lunched yet. but isnt far from lunch sequance. artificial inteligence.
monsterrun 3 years ago
i Agree With a lot of the things you said...Most people serve money instead of Visa Versa. But getting an understanding of money led me to a passive system that allows anyone who applies thenselves to it to make a massive amout of money. Heres the website
makecashwithease . com
derrell88 3 years ago
thought provoking, thank you.
greed seems like a mental disorder. for someone with more money than they can use to harm others to gain more is plainly crazy, and happens all the time.
problem is, money in the bank makes people feel secure, and it is the human tendency to fear uncertainty. a moneyless society is rife with insecurity, which is no change for poor people, but people with money and comfort will never go for it.
as you indicate, some of our societal madnesses are self reinforcing.
underweightHater 3 years ago
If honest people put in a strong effort at work they should be rewarded for it & if they are lazy at work & just sits around & do nothing then screw them. If the company rewards the lazy person & not the working man then screw the company. Pro athletes get exorbitant amounts of cash for tasks that do nothing to help the population at large. The teacher should have the lawyer's salary
& vice versa. Greedy people get it through you f*ing skull & pay fairly & stop this comic book bad guy B.S.
Homie0static 4 years ago
They get exorbitant amounts of cash because the Owners make millions, in some cases billions more. It does seem outlandish, but sports and entertanment in Gernal help people morally. We look at the entertainment business to take us away from our hard times, and give us the joys we long to have or have had in the past.
LTPapaBear 4 years ago
you people are missing the point about moneyless society. its only because you've grown accustomed to using it that makes it seem unrealistic living with out it. Just because you dont see it working doesn't mean it cant work. No more money means nothing costs anything. Meaning whatever it is your interested in you just do. GIVE, if there is no price or value then their is no greed or need to hurt, kill, or steal, everything for survival of humans has been perfected so what's the point of money
Fearless65 4 years ago 2
Good point. When you work it is a charity of the company owner to give you a bit of his/her profit. So basically you DON'T EARN MONEY BUT IT IS GIVEN TO YOU. That is the point. Now I recognize that this notion about a money/cash/coin less society is one of the signs of the end times. So if you don't want the world to come to a catastrophic end then then instead of the cashless society idea implore and insist that companies pay more & help them recognize the benefits to society in doing so.
Homie0static 4 years ago
hold it at 2:58 and its pretty funny how his jaw moves like a puppet
warlord2080 4 years ago
really? how many houses for how many ears of corn? how many hours tutoring for motorcycle?
dude money was created because bartering is impractical.
idiothek 4 years ago 6
Not only that, but in a moneyless society, the raw material supplier gets screwed because he gives away his labor for nothing. These people will never get equal compensation for their labor. Gold and silver in circulation as coin represents wealth and labor of a society. Someone had to work for that money and the next guy has to work to get that too. You can cure the greediness and ills of society by reducing the size of govt and taxation to allow people to freely donate to charities.
hey78huy 4 years ago
@idiothek Our society is way too big to barter, and we don't know most people, out there, so we have money. No one has the energy or time to try and independently evaluate how much everything would cost through bartering. I have no idea how a society would work without money, it is just really impractical.
natedaug1 1 year ago
Great video man!
wisdomknight777 4 years ago 2
excellent thought provoker. this needs to be said more
gdamitpauly 4 years ago 3
It's interesting that I should come upon this vid. I think it's a really thought provoking one. I was wondering just a few days ago why gold is so valuable it serves no real purpose and is just held in banks. It's shiney and looks pretty and to wear it means you're rich but it just sits in a vault.
digitalgenitals 4 years ago
a big reason that it's valuable apart from it being pretty, is the effort that went into aquiring it, that's why it survives inflation, you might have to pay the miners more in federal reserve notes to dig up the gold, but it'll still takes the same amount of labor to get it, so it represents a convertability of effort into value, federal reserve notes do this too, but there's a disconnect between the effort it takes the fed to print it, and the effort it takes us to earn it, AKA inflation.
luke666808g 4 years ago
Then the money should go to the diggers in the cave. The federal reserve bank is highway robbery because American money is only back by debt accruing over decades. Get it together gold is a metal that formed. Man placed a value on gold as man placed a value on diamonds, sapphires, rubies, pearls and what have you. In Africa, children used to play with diamonds like other rocks, now they are dying at the hands of those rocks.
Ameenah79 4 years ago
interesting...
mefilmmaking 4 years ago
You really dont understand money if you think you can have a barter system without it. Money isn't paper, or coin, it is whatever is the most commonly sought after commodity on the market. You can REPRESENT that commodity through paper notes, but that isn't the actual money. Fiat currency is entirely different, but I wont go into that.
TehBANN3D 4 years ago 2
Thanks for clarifying bud. I agree with you. What is gold compared to the hand that forges and refines it. It's nothing. A person & their skills should be valued but keep in mind that NFL players and actors are valued or paid more than police, fireman, armed forces officers and so forth. Our perception of who is valuable is out of whack but if we focus on this we get away insuring that all people contribute to society. All should work & have opportunity to do so.
Homie0static 4 years ago
yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn truuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
jerin121 4 years ago
So, how do you feel, jerin121? Really. Express yourself. :-P
proteanview 4 years ago
money is just a part of it
zzz33333 4 years ago
I think most realize this.
It's just one video.
proteanview 4 years ago
Interesting, but I don't agree.
gt39466 4 years ago
Furthermore, the electrician who's son he birthed moved to Arkansas when he finally decides to build his house or states that he doesn't want to. In the latter case, he would call the police (who are paid on labor tax??) whom would go out and force the electrician to work for our doctor *great*. There is another advantage to money, it is easier to compel others to give it up without violating as many natural rights.
inaneframe 4 years ago
He does not want all of that, especially not now, so he would barter with people who DID need it or save it up for use later, hopefully none of these people die. It would get complicated from that point on, he would spend more time counting up and divvying his earned labor debt then he would healing people, he would need a labor debt accountant, whom he would also need to pay.
inaneframe 4 years ago
Now what I mean by that, is this. By it's very nature not all labor is equal, meaning that no matter what your aim is, there would be debt. Money is simply the manifestation of that debt. Remove that money, the debt remains. Back to the doctor. A doctor heals a few hundred patients a month, for instance. Each of those patients would have to owe him 10 hamburgers, a table or 10 hours of labor on his future house.
inaneframe 4 years ago
It's called "The Wealth of Nations" and I suggest that you read it.
Here's a good question, do you expect people to work into their 70s? 80s? 90s? With the advance of medical science we are all living longer. The "hoarding" of money is not all bad, and, to an extent is very good for a culture. It is good when you are sick, too old or otherwise incapacitated. There is not much that a Doctor needs that might reciprocate his labor, by your logic all doctors would HAVE to retire by the age of 30.
inaneframe 4 years ago
There is no way someone working hard at a fast food restaurant works as hard as a good doctor did to get through school.
patiencepoet 4 years ago
patience: You've missed the point. You're still defining people in terms of a single job. You assume they would trade for the same goods or services. An exchange would be up to the two involved. No more middle men. As you say, this is too long for this forum. YouTube is no a place for research projects of dissertations. It's for ideas. Some ideas really bother some, though. Read my channel & your own comment below about 'this forum'. Your comment goes both ways.
proteanview 4 years ago
No...I said their work is not of the same value.
patiencepoet 4 years ago
You might be hot in gay porn...lol but when money is gone, so will the world. Read the book of Revelation the Bible. Once money is gone, the mark of the beast will come.
LolaFreeAgent 4 years ago
Money = the receipt you give to someone for holding your gold or silver.
Money = trading your gold/silver receipt for goods & services.
The US$ is a fiat currency, which is backed neither by gold or silver.
THEREFORE, the US$ (Federal Reserve Notes) is NOT money.
ERGO, money no longer exists!
jobatta 4 years ago
without money, civilization would not be stable.
ANT1PK 4 years ago
Are you sure about that? That is quite a grand statement to make without providing an explaination or proof to support your point.
Azania101 4 years ago
It's self explainatory. The answer is too long for this forum.
patiencepoet 4 years ago
if the world was without money. would you go to your job and work for 12 hours? or would you learn how to gather your own food, since you can't buy it anymore?
dazedANDtruckin 4 years ago
Wait: Are you suggesting that we should get rid of money all together and work off of a barter system?
was385 4 years ago
i got a question... because you always explain... and it is not that very clear for me...you want to eliminate money??? change it to barter system... let people do thiere own labor... but... if this happens what will happen to education? there will be no point in education... because all you need to know is basic survival skills... and how do you do it... where do we start? it really seams imposible... to stop using cocaine go to a rehab center... to stop using money??? bring back time???
mikecute7 4 years ago
mikecute: We need education to teach English. We need to teach other to build homes. There is still plenty we would need to learn. We take the *best* from history and only the *best* of what we've learned since then. We're too dependent on systems we don't need and our out of our control. By running away from history in fear of repeating it, we fail to learn from it.
proteanview 4 years ago
good point about education... but the history part... hmmm.... we fear "history" because we learned from it... we learned that things that went wrong in history is going to happen if we repeat it... and the "system" is what makes our life easy... it is a "necessity" that trough the years became our "needs" becuase it made people's life better... and to eliminate money means to eliminate the system that makes our life better... and who would a class C life if you could have a class A life...
mikecute7 4 years ago
mikecute: Things went wrong so we improved on history by creating pollution, traffic, poisonous genetically engineered foods, processed foods, cloned foods, nuclear weapons. We improved on it by privatizing natural resources and polluting the rest. The assumption that everything we've moved on to is better needs to be examined perhaps.
proteanview 4 years ago
you are bieng one sided... look at the brighter side... not all things invented to improve our life are the same with what you stated... and all those things that you stated is a effect of good things going to bad peoples hand... if we eliminate money... do you think all of this would stop... i would trade my plants for a pack of bacon... or i would give you 1000 hectar of land for your nuclear weapon... money for labor and food for labor is different... with money you buy what you need...
mikecute7 4 years ago
mikecute: Not at all. I say we take the *best* of both. It's not all about food. We all can produce more than one good or service. In today's world, we have one occupation and pay others to do what we can do ourselves... because we spend so much time doing one. Read the 2nd paragraph on my channel.
proteanview 4 years ago
proteanview, what about all of military people? where do they get their goods? in the end this may lead to more crimes, and immoral behaviors. i like the idea of it. but maybe not eliminating all money. if every major city produces their own agricultural goods, we would have healthier foods, we shouldnt have to pay for an education. little things like this would be an amazing start to your idea. trading services for spoils may pose a problem. mayhap, service for service, or SOME type of currency
mattheweed 4 years ago
what about people who horde goods? its not human nature to be greedy, but animal nature. gold and silver take time to get out of the ground. just like it takes time to build a car. thats why the constution says the govt can only use gold and silver and no paper. paper can be printed for nothing.
Superjobsackface 4 years ago
money is grease for trade. Trade makes us more efficient producers of wealth. You would not have had a camera and computer to make this video without money. Barter systems are extremely frustrating and currency naturally emerges from this frustration. Currency often develops where there is none. For example, people use cigarettes as currency in jail.
goose1077 4 years ago
This is the favourite of my favourites; not only because its potent/thoughtful/revolutionary but because I'm gonna need to rewatch another 20 times to internalize! Thanks for this, Proteanview.
heavenseek 4 years ago
I have learned (sadly)that one can never overestimate the capacity of the average
human being to to exemplify contempt, avarice
and the pursuit of their own vainglory. We are made to use money and give each other love; instead manylove money and use others to get the money they love. Is this not a moral question? To me the question is not money but idolatry. Would removing money from picture change this corruption?
Pilgrim812 4 years ago
Pilgrim: Excellent point of use & love, love & use. I think of money like drugs. Drugs effect us physiologically, money does so socially. I guess it's a question of human nature or the object itself. If we left cocaine out on tables, even made it mandatory, our society would surely be different. We could blame the cocaine & tell others to just act right or blame the fall out on human nature. Removing the cocaine would surely make a difference just as removing money. ...maybe
proteanview 4 years ago
No, you just live in America. /brainwashed.
Evolve10 4 years ago
money promotes greed? it has power? its own energy and strength? if you think you're making sense of this, try differently. people do not relate to money because of money, but rather because of their own issues. how could money do anything? just another victim to blame for people problems rather than the people themselves.
morehn 4 years ago
morehn: The same can be said for cocaine. It's us. Why don't we just leave it out on tables? Better yet, why don't we require it to live? If some abuse this addicting necessity, tell 'em to grow up. Good thinking, morehn. ;-)
proteanview 4 years ago
You're absolutely right. People often think that theyre doing things for money. But they don't realize what money really means. In today's society people use money to buy things, and things (cars, houses, cloths) are what we use as status symbols. So theyre not doing it for money, theyre doing it for status. If money (or things you get with money) were no longer used to measure someones social status, people would be far less greedy.
PuppyHate 4 years ago
Money is not bad. It's what's done with it. Think of money in it's purest form, A liquidation of Energy. Energy that can be good or bad. It's how we use and control our energy that counts.
Peace.
41point2 4 years ago 4
...Like cocaine. ;-)
proteanview 4 years ago
What about entropy?
NoSkraelings 4 years ago
you have a point there but i rather agree with what roody32 said, "money in it self is a wonderful thing that empowers man; it shows the worth of an ambitious and dedicated individual". what u plant, you harvest. but i agree that money has a lot of weaknesses, it promotes greed etc, though to live in a world without money is very impractical.People can still cheat, cheat on the quality of the things they produce eg, and it will be difficult to measure things precisely without currency.
dmnxCGi 4 years ago
A very original idea, and intriguing as well. Excellent vid!!!
agsder12 4 years ago
There is always something inside of us craving MORE, whether it be apples, money, tomatoes etc. One of the things I enjoy about this is that first your shirt is really cool and your really smart, I say this because I could not stop looking at the lion and some parts I completely blanked out on and said "What?" but I am younger then you it is not because you did not make sense, it is just that your vocabulary murders mine. I'd love to hear back from you.
- Zakk(continued)(hopefully finished)
aspirationsdive 4 years ago
I have watched two of your videos so far. The way you talk about money causing greed is very true. But part of human nature is evil.
aspirationsdive 4 years ago
okay i going to ramble like i know what im talking about. Ready? First, I think you are a complete genious.
aspirationsdive 4 years ago
Bilderbergs prepare a FALSE Assassination or President BUSH as an EXCUSE to INVADE IRAN.
3rd WWar is near.
dimicatio07 4 years ago
Youtube is so clever. 2,200 people have watched this video. That means youve preached your idea to 2,200 people. That would have been so difficult without youtube! You would have had to have done public speaking, i think there should be a way of videos like this being noticed. It seems a shame that its tucked away on the internet with no real exposure.
mrjoecool 4 years ago 2
Look up "the logic of capital" and Marx. He argued not only that money causes greed (by turning labor into capital), but that money expands its range, and actively destroys non-capitalist systems to bring the world into the capitalist system.
wildgift2 4 years ago
I agree. Humans have both social responses and physiological responses. We respond to cocaine. We respond to money. It is that nature of money (or any currency with representative value) that causes us to be greedy. Too often we extrapolate our understanding, reality and wants on the nature of humanity at large.
proteanview 4 years ago
That's the biggest fault I ever heard about money. You claim that it's not the nature of humans, but the nature of money who brings forth greed.
Well, this is just as someone would say that it's not the murderer's fault to stab someone to death, but the knife that lead to this. Pretty naive, dude!
DoctorPenis 4 years ago
Doctor: The nature of cocaine breeds certain human reactions as well. We make it illegal. Similarly, anything that we make ourselves need, and that can be hoarded facilitates greed.
proteanview 4 years ago
(continued)
Because each person has different desires as well, this allows a person to do a service for another, be compensated, then be able to turn around and go somewhere completely different to exchange his earned worth for another good/service potentially not offered by the original employer. Does this make sense?
illusina 4 years ago
I would simply suggest that the portability of money is the main motivating factor. I've read that money probably evolved because people who began trading in early societies needed to be able to transport a "symbol" of worth instead of the actual goods in order to buy things that the traveling person didn't want directly from the person he was trading with...money is literally the "blood" of the economy in serving this purpose of making wealth a translatable unit/thing. (continued)
illusina 4 years ago
I appreciate your sentiment, however I pose this question to you:
What would motivate people to innovate if money didn't exist?
Would we have a youtube, airplane, computer, or the vast amounts of supplies to sustain us as human beings?
paulhb 4 years ago
paul: We wouldn't be as dependent on things & systems. You describe a people who cannot survive on their own.We could use a more simple, personable, smog-free life. Instead of tapping on computers, we could be working for our own good/exchanges & actually be physically fit w/o paying a gym. We could enjoy our free time w/actual humans, not virtual humans. There are tons of 'what ifs'. You'd have to get the sentiment to be able to answer these questions on your own.
proteanview 4 years ago
I follow you. I often relate to that thinking that if "little green men" landed, would they use money? I never think so. My great grandfather was a pioneer. I would die in the wild!
I am thinking in a pragmatic sense. We won't reverse the past, but given no major reward for extreme efforts, what would motivate people to excel? That's the pickle.
paulhb 4 years ago
Umm, I think that you would kinda have to be motivated if you wanted to live in a system like this, or if you wanted to go far.
JesuitLax4 4 years ago
Just wondering why my comments arn't being posted? I was being respectful in the way I was asking questions. Maybe their just getting lost.
nG370 4 years ago
ng370: I've been bombarded & the system will lock up while downloading the entire stream. You can see I try to include both positive & negative comments. I delete name-calling, numerous repetitive messages or quotes from authors. :-)
proteanview 4 years ago
and who dictated the worth of such monies, hmmmmm, why are the world bank, international monetary fund, and the federal reserve all private corporations, hmmmm, and we think a meeting in davos where all the creature comforts of the world are put hold for a bit of chatting about us workers, come on
ThEpErsOnLiGHts 4 years ago 2
ThEpErs: I know I'm preaching to the *wrong* choir in Davos.
proteanview 4 years ago
the glass duznt have to be half full or half empty, how bout it jus is?? What we can do is empower dedicated and true politicians HAHHAHA.. im sorry.. scrth that... as one man??.. U can acquire money and set an example on what money is really for... not to buy clothes for a pet poodle but to help build clothing factories in underprivleged areas or such things
roody322 4 years ago
with monetary rewards and as a global trendsetter this is catching across the world(try watching "fear factor" or any of these gabage reality shows on tv) .But money in it self is a wonderful thing that empowers man; it shows the worth of an ambitious and dedicated individual........ lets be real... we will never get rid of money.. im not saying is good or bad tho.....
roody322 4 years ago
i agree with u protean that money causes hoarding(/greed) which is one of the basest human actions in my belief. this however is the result of a lot of wealth in our country being the hands of very ignorant people who think that the sole purpose of life is to accumulate wealth. Now most of the time people with such closeminded views are not intelliegent enuff to acquire wealth but america seems to have a knack of rewarding complete idiots
roody322 4 years ago
Played the last part where you jump up, wink, and smile and say you're done like 2 times.. fucking adorable :)!
ok i'm gonna leave you to your interesting discussions .. good luck ;)
daeasyway 4 years ago
'You're very well-spoken.'
And smoking hot?
<3
Ssoufiany 4 years ago
Dank u
proteanview 4 years ago
you need to slow down so tnat people can understand and follow what u are saying it sounds like u are off your NUT
ugandanstar 4 years ago
I've always had a very vague idea of what you're discussing and I do think that it is something very feasible but probably only on a small scale however its worth someone doing a serious investigation or report into it.
pricklebush 4 years ago
see i completely agree, so much so that i slightly disagree lol. money i believe will be around until no one in the world remembers wat it is. its honestly but unfortantely impossible at least now to live in a world with out it, knowing that it once existed. but hopefully i just don't give man kind enough credit. people don't really do things for the "thank you" anymore their just thinking about the tip. =P
OhotoSantos 4 years ago
I think an even better question is this: why do the following human things require money for us to obtain them:
- Food
- Access to healthcare
- Water
There are more than enough of these resources all over the world for every person so why should some not have these and other have them? Why can't we form an accurate, responsible, precise global coalition to provide the basic things (and more) to everyone?
I think that is a more refined distillation of the things you are saying.
melancholyguy 4 years ago 4
actually there aren't enough resources all over the world for every person infact if every person were to get these said resources they would run out at an incredibly fast rate and screw everyone
purenathan 4 years ago
Can I see a source on that? I tend to believe that there are more than enough resources to keep everyone fed (surplus stock in supermarkets always being thrown out), access to healthcare (limitless potential to train new doctors) and water (2/3 of Earth's surface and with the correct infrastructure deliverable to all).
eleccy 4 years ago
I think that the reason why you are getting such intense negative reactions is because what you are saying challenges the very crux of all world orders, which revolve around monetary consumption. You may wish to look into the con-worlding behind Star Trek because the Star Trek future on the Federation side went beyond money if I'm not mistaken.
melancholyguy 4 years ago 3
melancholy: I'm loving the response. I needed to clarify my position. Can you imagine how the Wright bros must have felt when they first mentioned flying? I could have said - feed the poor, put kids first, plant trees, and all the vague ideas we've heard before, but I'm not that guy. I wanted something revolutionary. As Bertrand Russell claims: "Conventional people are roused to fury by departures from convention, largely because they regard such departures as a criticism of themselves."
proteanview 4 years ago
I agree protean. I am saddened by the fact that it seems true substantive radical change--revolutionary action-may not be possible in our world. Our collapse into a greedy globalized world is at the heart of the problem. Fact is: the EARTH is abundantly resource-rich as a whole. Some areas more, some less. But certainly enough for all to thrive.
melancholyguy 4 years ago 2
We have not begun to think of building a peaceful, non-greedy earth for all. The word "sacrifice" and the idea "what would you give up so others can gain" infuriates people. They say: I need to get mine. So, thank you for beautifully thinking out of the box. People will hate you (and us) for it!
melancholyguy 4 years ago
You have faith in human kind that's nice :D
citizenoftheworld7 4 years ago 2
its not arab countries owning US ports that is wrong. in fact americans owning US ports is just as wrong. every place should own its own port and allow others to use it responsibly. and this should be valid for everything.
bitesh 4 years ago 2
bitesh: You so completely understand where I'm coming from.
proteanview 4 years ago
we'd have to give up centralized state... I commented somewhere that we don't need the actual state to feel that we're part of a certain culture. so, long story's short, anarchy seems to be the solution.
but all this debate has brought up another issue: "human nature", and we have no idea. I believe this is what we should be really looking into, and the rest will follow on its own...
bitesh 4 years ago
The concept of being able to 'hoard' money is what stimulates/has stimulated the development of the world's greatest conveniences and innovations. Take that away and you take away the motivation of these great thinkers (or their superiors who finance them).
mashoutposse 4 years ago
it's true that money has taken on a life of its own. what once directly represented a value has now become like a transient, faceless ghost
shadowsloth 4 years ago
Specialization has rendered us helpless and dependent on money. Globalization has worsened the matter.
Thank you for always saying what I am thinking but saying it so much better. We must once again learn to be self sufficient in order to get away from a money society. Then, we will once again be able to really value humans instead of money and material goods.
stupidgirl816 4 years ago
I often think of this myself... What the world would be like without money. I see it as a beautiful place!
tonitakitty 4 years ago
I don't use money. I have a debit card :)
xbrndnx 4 years ago