The Sopranos Carlo Did Not Necessarily Flip

[lobsterdfw1]

I think Tony is fucked on both ends: Carlo flipped, and (just maybe) someone in his family (maybe Patsy) sold him to New York.

[CoCoMaNRePs]

@lobsterdfw1 There was no longer a threat from New York after Phil was whacked. Phil's main men were on Tony's side by the time Phil was over and done with and they were the only ones against Tony in the 1st place.

[THEMENSLAUGHTER]

Everyone talks about Carlo flipping and it is certain he flipped, but why did he flip and what information is he feeding the FEDs?

[toolover10]

@THEMENSLAUGHTER I believe Carlos' son was arrested on drug charges. Carlo worked out an exchange.

[guitarkidsteve]

this is my question. if tony did die in the last scene, how did whoever it was that killed him kno hed be there?

[MobKnowledge]

@guitarkidsteve Remember that the MOG enters the diner the same time AJ does. AJ's the most incompetent member of the family; it wouldn't be too hard to follow him and be led to his father.

[guitarkidsteve]

@guitarkidsteve yea but MOG would have had to known that tony was gonna be eating with his family and only his family. not paulie or patsy or whoever that could protect him and make the hit go wrong. ik im kinda arguin out my ass here but I would just like to know how a brilliant powerful leader was able to be gunned down in a simple family restauraunt with his family and plenty of other witnesses around.

[LyallM94]

Carlo flipped. Butch didn't kill Tony, certainly not over a mouthy prick like Coco. Coco overstepped the mark, involving family. Old school mafia code says families get respect, they don't get involved with 'family' business. So Butch would've understood Tony's need to respond. Also, in order to whack a Boss (even of a low ranking family) Butch would need the okay of the other families, which I doubt he would've got. It makes no sense, both politically & financially to clip Tony.

[marc80s]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't buy that Tony dies in the final ep. I don't see the hints the same way the "Tony dies" people do.

[TiminSE]

Jason should've ate that charge, manned up and did the bid. Carlo is cotton candy for flipping for his son.

[mrtrek64]

The character Carlo always reminded me of Michale Corrleone's body guard in God Father 2. Carlo would NEVER flip.

[Weslo2]

Carlo Flipped

wasn't his son nabbed for dealing drugs?

Carlo agreed testimony for immunity on his son

[chgojack1]

I'm not sure if Carlo flipped. However if he did, probably what did it for him, was when Tony told he should suck dick instead of watching tvland. Did you see how Carlo looked at Tony? He wanted to kill him right than and there.

I do think Tony was whacked at the end. I think Paulie set him up. Paulie knew how close he came to get whacked himself on that boat. Like he said in the first season, "if i'm your uncle, I have to finish what I started".

As far as Tony, going into

[hearts76100]

HAVING A THICK PENIS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN HAVING THICK SKIN!!!

[Trinder3467]

Tony didn't die. He got busted by the FBI. That was the whole point of Carlo flipping situation.

[samdogmc12]

@Trinder3467 no the whole point was it could have been one or the other, either way he was fucked. certainly wasn't gonna retire down in miami and die of old age.

[fantom58]

Carlo's drug dealing punk son and Patsy's punk son (he also had a good son that dated Meadow) were friends. There is a scene in one of the last episodes where Patsy whispers to his son to keep away from Carlo's son. Patsy probably ratted Carlo's son out to the Feds, and did not want his son to get involved. Why would Patsy do this? Maybe just to get Carlo's punk son from corrupting his son, or maybe because he knew Carlo would flip to save his son--Patsy's revenge on Tony for killing his twin

[benj214]

@fantom58 .....no, if Patsy wanted revenge he would have killed tony when he had the chance, or either done it later on without being caught rather than waiting years later to MAYBE send him to prison

[S0medude81]

New York wanted to decapitate the soprano family by killing all the top guys Carlo was not one of them.

They just where just trying to convince Silvio to make the takeover easier.

I would not exclude the possibility that Butch still wanted to kill Tony though.

As to whether Tony is dead or not I think the creators did not want to pin them selfs down because they may want to do something with this franchise and if they do that will decide what happened in the final scene.

[riddick7819]

Carlo had every reason to flip and rat on his friends, he had to save his son from going to prison by agreeing to testify in court as well as himself and Tony even insulted Carlo by saying that Vito had brought in three times what Carlo was making in construction, so Carlo knows that he is in Tony's bad graces and that he could be whacked if he doesnt start earnining better.

Carlo could flip to save his son and save himself from being prosecuted too severely or being whacked by Tony, smart move

[BloodRid3r]

How it ends we will never no exactly but what i do know is: everyone that likes the Sopranos wants a season 7 :D

[immortal4hm]

:D

CUTE! n.n

[kanguesso]

By Tony telling Carmela in the last episode at the restaurant that Carlo flipped, it is safe to assume that the producers were trying to convey to us that Tony goes to jail in the end. The feds finally put him away or those creepy dudes in the restaurant just blow him away in front of his family like he deserved. Either way it is not that big of a mistery anyway considering there are only 2 ways mob bosses meet their demise, they either go to jail or get blown away and maybe even both.

[iwasneverhereok]

@kanguesso well for what its worth, those guys in the restaurant were fbi agents in earlier episodes. So i doubt tony got whacked especially right there.

[samdogmc12]

@iwasneverhereok were they really? tell me more i dont follow.

[MIKESOWELL]

@kanguesso Or they can live to age 97 like Joe Bonnano lol.

[kanguesso]

@MIKESOWELL lol

[KRKahn87]

The mayor from Ghostbusters.

[crushf5]

@Iamthelaw1526 I agree. Jersey winning a war over New york is impossible in real life. Tony wasn't a bad boss but he wasn't the best. he was lucky a lot of times. If Johnny Sack wasn't such a pansy the Jersey crew would have been taken care of by Phil

[kosmosleha]

maan, I hate when youtube is slow! All these commercials are more important then the video itself nowdays.

[InfantryFodder93]

@kosmosleha Fucking Capitalism

[byro1884]

David Chase told us the clues were there, there's no big secret. Look at the final credits, the guy who whacked T was listed as a Leotardo. Simple revenge murder, nothing to do with the power vacuum in NYC. The camera perspective was from T's point of view every time someone walked in the door. The bell rang, T looked up to see who entered, and we see his POV from where he is sitting, EXCEPT for the last shot when we see T from a first-person view, instant blackout because he's just been killed.

[crushf5]

I hope Carlo flipped. I love the Sopranos but I do hope that Tony gets what was coming to him. I think him going to jail would be worse than death because I don't think he can handle years in the can like Phil and richie could

[rick136nyc]

Carlo probably flipped and was probably killed even though he tells Carmella at the end Carlo Flipped. Right before the final scene when Tony is talking to Pauly outside the store, Pauly turns down running Carlo's crew because its cursed and everyone who runs it dies or gets wacked... leading me to believe they killed Carlo just to be safe.

[tehBLAX]

the way he keeps hitting the tomato sauce bottle annoys the fuck outa me

[cuofamerica]

I think Carmella knows the truth, their Slutty little daughter flipped for a law degree from the fbi so she could help crackheads at a free clinic. Meadow, what a cunt....

[lasselampa]

sopranos is a great show...but in rel life tony and hes crew would been killed all of them...phil was a real bad as mothafucker. and he and butch and the whole new york crew could easily have killed tony if they wanted,,, but like some of u say i actually think that butch killed tony after phil died

[dwayneo18]

@lasselampa ehhhhh i dont think so only for this reason, ik butch never liked tony but think about it, they DID call a truce in a sense, now whether that was bullshit who the fuck knows but its because tony took out phil that butch will be the next presumed boss of the family, how u whack a guy who does that for you? lol and plus he couldnt just take out the whole new jersey family, they need em for busniess

[Theburn77]

yeah he flipped because they caught his son jason selling ecstasy, paulie said it in his final scene, outside satriales.

[GlennShook]

It's been a while since I seen all the eps. But I don't think Butch was a rat. They never said or showed that. FBI guy just said 1 of NY rats told him about Tony going. There was like atleast 3-4 guys at that NY table talking about who the top Jersey guys were they were going to kill. And yes Carlo was a rat.

[bitcheznhos]

Carlo flipped, Tony tells Carmela in the final scene.

[nalum87]

it was kinda funny in for all debts public and private carlo is a meeting with a bunch of captains..and carlo is called a captain..however carlo is later made captain replacing vito..sopranos error?

[Wobbothe3rd]

@nalum87 He was captain, but not captian of the *construction crew* yet.

That was a coveted spot - in new york city the mob makes a lot of money in construction, in fact its on of the only things they got left that still earns a lot

[galarius]

I think Little Carmine whacked Tony

[UndergroundStoners]

Are you fucked? How?

[galarius]

Actually, the guy who did the big breakdown thesis of the ending has him as one of the , if not THE, main suspect(s).......Carmine had the most to gain at this point of the major players still standing..doubt it was Butch or anybody with Phil...Probably Carmine!He probably didn't want to do it, but better business for him this way

[bitcheznhos]

@galarius Yeah? why so?  Carmine got out of it

[Shapiro029]

i think carlo did turn informant, if not just for his son (to keep him out of jail) but also because he may of known sil killed his cousin burt?

[furb393]

Carlo did flip, it was confirmed in the very last scene of the show

[UndergroundStoners]

Exactly!

[Wobbothe3rd]

@furb393 That's just tony talking, he thinks he knows but he's not 100% sure.

Carlo probably did flip, just saying the audience never sees any evidence like with the other snitches they show.

[furb393]

@Wobbothe3rd - Dude the very last scene of the show when he's in the cafe with Carmella, he says he has been told that Carlo definitely flipped - You look like you're a mad fan too, surely you've seen that scene too then?

[nflizsoft6]

fuck carlo and butchie

[markmallia]

you look at the last season, even after tony contemplates killing paulie, there are several signs which point to paulie, e.g., when new jersey plan on wacking phil, paulie asks bobby and sil, "does tony know about this". There were other signs too.

[chgojack1]

@markmallia I don' t think Paulie flipped, he would never do that, and the actor made it clear, he would never be a rat, but I do think Paulie had Tony whacked! He knew how close he came on the boat, and he wasn't going to give Tony another chance. Besides it was clear when Tony was in the hospital, he didn't give a rats ass about Tony

[helzballa]

"somebody's giving grand jury testimony on something." (fact)

I figure in all probabilities it was Carlo, whose son got arrested around the same time. Who else?

[LeoWilmot]

I don't think Butch had a reason to kill Tony. He basically ok'd the murder of phil but refused to help by telling his whereabouts. Also Carlo did flip. In the very final scene Tony says so to Carmela.

[bitcheznhos]

@LeoWilmot Butch didn't even know where Phil was. He had to wait for a phone call while he was in Little Italy, then through this call the feds were able to trace Phils whereabouts. The agent that agent harris slept with in the hotel room told his the info and then agent harris immediately called Tony. You got to see this chicks bush and twat as she got dressed, you can't forget that scene.

[StackLoad]

Paulie didn't suddenly started kissing Tony's rear because of Carmine Sr.

Silvio had already warned him that his earning was at an all time low, so he improved on it.

[D00NIEBRASCO]

Butch does have a reason to kill Tony S.

The way Phil was whacked in front of his family and no possibility of an open casket.

He would need to kill Tony S to safe face with NY family.

Boss 4 a boss both killed in front of there families all adds up?

[Wobbothe3rd]

Butch never really like Phil. That's the whole point of the scene in Chinatown... Phil led Butch astray both literally and symbolically.

Did you notice the cold weather and the sound effects in both scenes?

[chgojack1]

@Wobbothe3rd do you think butchie was going to have Phil whack? After all there was another guy, I never saw before with him. When its clear its just a phone call, the other guy walks away. Maybe Phil didn't trust Butchie?

[Wobbothe3rd]

@chgojack1 Butch didnt want to have Phil killed necessarily, but he also didnt want to have him live. He just wanted the war to end, that's why even though he refuses to give up Phil's location he explicitly says "you do what you gotta do"

So in other words Butchie realizes for the money's sake and to avoid going to jail it makes sense to make peace with Tony

[Cruisey1234]

@bitcheznhos wrong, the guy who walks off when Butch and him walk out of the little italy joint is Raymond "Ray-Ray" D'Abaldo, New York soldier/capo.

[bitcheznhos]

@Cruisey1234 You are right, thanks for the info. But it is where the feds traced the phone call, cause even Butch didn't know where he was at. Following scenes agent harris slept with a co-worker who told him, then he immediately called tony s and gave him a general whereabouts. such a genius show I can watch it over and over.

[Scanman22]

Carlo flipped to keep his son out of prison! Simple as that. I'm sure he didn't want to but he wants his son to have a better life than jail time.

[tonypanz]

@Scanman22 Yea he flipped for his son sounds a little more honorable than just bein a rat but what was gonna happen to his son for sellin X? 1-3yrs? So he rats on Tony and gets them 20 to life and/or death so his son dont have to do a little time? His son was a little piece a shit anyway that woulda ended up goin to the can at some point anyway like everyone else who has any involvement with "street activity".

[maddingo12]

You don't get 1-3 yrs for X. It depends on the amount you get caught with... if you get caught with a fair amount (intent to distribute and sell) you can get 10 years easily.

[tonypanz]

@maddingo12 Yea of course its possible to get 10yrs, but its on a case by case basis. Most ppl plea out and get a lot less time than that , but yea it is possible if u get caught with enough, its not ur first offense, and all that stuff.

[maddingo12]

We don't know the specifics of the case...but I'm guessing his son was facing a fat sentence if Carlo decided to flip. First offense or not, if you get caught with 40 kilos of coke in your house, the judge is not going to give you probation.

[tonypanz]

@maddingo12 Exactly, each case is specific. 40 kilos is a diff story than a few x pills. I know ppl that have been charged with similiar crimes, possesion/intent with x and got prob and/or rehab. It all depends. Carlos kid could have been lookin at some time or not so much. we dnt knw enough details about it. Ur rite tho if carlo decided 2 flip over it, it must have been a pretty big case.

[jksonny]

I still think Carlo flipped. For one thing, Tony is certain of this in the final scene at the diner. Maybe he got further information between this scene and meeting the family for dinner. In any event, Carlo being "old school" is irrelevant. Plenty of old school gangsters have fliiped over the years.

As for Butch, he has no reason to hold a grudge against Tony. Butch is now the head of a NY crime family, thanks to Tony.

[afterapplepicking]

@jksonny Holding a grudge has nothing to do with it, though. It was business. Tony whacked the boss of New York. What better way for Butchie to cement his position as the new boss of New York than by whacking the guy who whacked the former boss of New York?

Whacking a boss is supposed to be a death sentence in the mafia.

[MIKESOWELL]

@afterapplepicking Then why was John Gotti not whacked for killing Paul Castellano?

[LyallM94]

@afterapplepicking Butch isn't the boss of New York. He's the boss of the Lupertazzi family. There are other families in NY in The Sopranos.

[dankoz]

@jksonny That's what I thought too about NY and NJ at peace. But if you look at the way Phil was taken out (shot in the head in front of his family and having his head run over) it probably did embarrass NY and they were probably upset about not being able to have a open casket. That's why I believe Tony was killed at the end, if Phil died in front of his family so should Tony. Butch went back on his word.

[aronosky69]

@dankoz good insight..

[bboy0824]

as much as i wanna say carlo didnt flip, he probably did cause shit was hitting the fan, and nobody knew who were marks. He loved his sons and figured if theirs anytime to flip, nows the time. Besides Sil and Bobby, nobody was totally loyal.  Whatevs though, Carlo took out Fat Dom like a fuckin pig!

[shamrock118]

wasn't paulie totally loyal too?

[bboy0824]

fo a point, he did tell Johnny Sack about the joke about Ginny while he was in the can. He was trying to get in good with Johnny so he'd be good with Carmine Sr., who ends up not even knowing who Paulie is. Watch season 3 again, its the reason Tony considers killing Paulie in season 6. Paulie is my fav though

[Reindrich]

True. I always had the feeling that for a brief moment during that period Paulie considerd of taking out Tony, Chris and Silvio to run the DiMeo family himself.

He was obviously desillusioned when Carmine Sr. didn't even know who he was. He started sucking up to Tony right away even killing that old lady to get some extra cash.

[BU57ED]

but thats what the directors doing, making it look like he has but dont make you %90 sure, its a great technique

[bboy0824]

So in your oppinion, what do you think happend to Carlo? Just curious as a fan

[littlea511]

can someone get this whole scene its funny and a great scene

[fallenzeon]

carlo flipped and was going to testify check out the end scene in the diner when tony says to carm that carlos going to testify in court

[littlea511]

he flipped because noone herd from him and he was sopossed to meet paulie and never showed and his son got arrested. if u were the boss wat would u think.or if u wrote that script wat would u be implying.tobad we prob will never no the rest of the story

[littlea511]

pauly. was loyal too him along with sil were with tony the longest but therrees so many arguements of wat could of happened with paulie

[QuikDJ]

carlo cant have flipped come on!!

[triunp]

Carlo can't comeback....specialy if there's doubt bout' him...as soon as they think bout it, he's dead. he can't come back saying...." it wasn't me, it's my brother"

[Psychology]

It's one of those things that we don't technically know, just can prety much assume, just like we don't KNOW that Jimmy wore a wire for the FBI in season 1, but we can pretty much assume.

[jpersaud]

it was pussy that wore the wire they just assumed it was jimmy

[fallenzeon]

if youn watch one of the episodes after jimmys death you would see the fed telling pussy that jimmy got clipped for him because they thought jimmy was the rat but he wasnt it was puss

[bboy0824]

i think he was referring to jimmy just getting caught out first. when they kill jimmy they say 'what your not wearing your wire?' and jimmy says 'oh shit'

[Cantswimboundtodrown]

Jimmy did wear a wire though. He calls the meeting when there is no need for it and he doesn't deny it when Chris corners him.

[bboy0824]

Jimmy wore a wire too

[caponex55]

farfetchd to say the least

[jksonny]

I agree that we don't know for sure about Carlo but I think it's a safe assumption, which is why Tony tells Carm. More importantly, having to deal with this crisis right after ending the NY War plays into the final scene's theme, "It goes on and on and on . . ."

[TMG87]

It is confirmed in the final episode that Carlo flipped. Tony told Carmella this at the restaurant.

[DeCavalcante]

That just what he thought..